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do with the with the covid, excuse me, with, dealing with everything we have to do with, look, if we finally beat medicare, i really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. i don't think he knows what he said either. how will the president reassure voters concerned about his age and fitness for office? i don't debate as well as i used to, but i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth. could there be a change at the top of the ticket plus filibuster? donald trump refuses to say if he will accept the results of the next election and repeats multiple falsehoods while defending the actions of the rioters on january 6th. on january 6th, we respected all over the world as his criminal conviction hangs over the race, the only person on this stage is a convicted felon is the man i'm looking at right now. i didn't have sex with a star. my guest

this morning, democratic senator raphael warnock of georgia and republican governor doug burgum of north dakota. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news chief political analyst chuck todd, christina londono, rooney, senior washington correspondent for telemundo, marc short, former chief of staff to vice president mike pence and former obama white house communications director jennifer palmieri. welcome to sunday. it's meet the press. from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. this is meet the press with kristen welker. good sunday morning. it is yet another extraordinary moment in the 2024 election cycle, with democrats in a state of crisis after president joe biden delivered a disastrous debate performance that fueled voters top concerns about his age and ability to serve another four

years in office. not since the first nixon-kennedy debate in 1960 has a debate had as much potential to shake up a presidential race. this morning, there is widespread panic within the democratic party and questions about whether the president should drop out of the race. i think it was a disaster, i think it was like maybe the worst debate i've ever seen in my entire life. i do think people feel like that. we are confronting a crisis. there are going to be discussions about whether he should continue. at first it was shocking and it was scary. then it was sad and by the end it was absurd. is the riskiest path sticking with joe biden or is the riskiest path? saying we want someone else and anybody who says that that is not a tough call right now is full of. on friday, in a stunning move, the new york times editorial board called on president biden to serve his country and drop out of the presidential race. nbc news has learned that president biden is

expected to address his campaign with his family at camp david. that's according to five people familiar with the matter now, he and first lady jill biden arrived there late last night to join their children and grandchildren in a trip planned before thursday's debate. the campaign was always going to be a topic of conversation, but now , undoubtedly, thursday's debate will be front and center. senior adviser anita dunn addressed the matter on saturday. you all did not have any kind of conversations about, oh, should joe biden drop out of this race, the conversation that we had is, okay, what do we do next? okay. that is, if there's one thing that we're about, it's okay. barack obama said bad debates happen. we had a bad debate. what do we do next? and, you know, the president, above all, is focused on what do we do next? what do i need to go do? president biden, who agreed to the earliest general election debate in modern political history, had one goal to persuade voters who are skeptical about his age and fitness for office that he is up

to serve another four years. mr. biden has consistently told voters watch me. if i were to run, i think you could judge me on my vitality. can i still run up the steps of air force two? am i still in good shape? am i do i have all my faculties? am i, am i energetic? i think it's totally legitimate for people to ask those questions. this is for the voters to decide. take a look. look at me. see if i have the energy. see if i know what i'm talking about and make their judgment. i think it's a legitimate thing to be concerned about anyone's age, including mine. i think that's totally legitimate, but i think the best way to make the judgment is to, to, you know, watch me. well, on thursday night, voters watched the president deliver a halting performance, at times appearing confused and repeatedly losing his train of thought, making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person a eligible for what i've been able to do with the with the covid.

excuse me, with, dealing with everything we have to do with, look, if we finally beat medicare. for his part, mr. trump unleashed a torrent of false claims, saying that most americans supported overturning roe v wade when polls show the opposite, saying falsely again that there was widespread fraud in the 2020 election and refusing to answer whether he would accept the election results in november, will you accept the results of the election regardless of who wins? yes or no, please. if it's a fair and legal and good election, absolutely. i would have much rather accepted these. but the fraud and everything else was ridiculous. and if you want, we'll have a news conference on it in a week. democratic leaders are publicly expressing support for president biden. on friday, former president obama posted, quote,

bad debate nights happen. trust me, i know. but this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares about himself. president biden's aides and allies have circulated talking points to democrats in an all out effort to contain the damage, trying to calm donors at a rally on friday in north carolina, a defiant president biden insisting he's prepared to fight on. i know i'm not a young man, state the obvious. i don't walk as easy as i used to. i don't speak as smoothly as i used to. i don't debate as well as i used to, but i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth. the decision is effectively, president biden's alone at this point. if he dropped out of the race, he would free up his delegates to support another nominee. so far, the president and his campaign have indicated that he does not plan to step aside on capitol

hill. there are widespread fears about losing the white house, but top leaders are urging calm. you see a performance that, gets the kind of reviews that that performance that would be cause for concern. that was strike one. if this were a ball game, he's got two more swings. do you think president biden is the best messenger for the top of the ticket? i'm a very big supporter of president biden's been a great president. after the debate performance last night, should he step aside? joining me now from atlanta is democratic senator raphael warnock of georgia. senator warnock, welcome back to meet the press. great to be here with you. good morning. good morning to you. it is great to have you here. let me start with the debate. president biden had one goal to prove to voters that he was capable of serving another four years in office by all accounts, he did not meet his own benchmark. your hometown

paper, the atlanta journal constitution, has joined the list of newspapers calling for him to drop out. do you think president biden should drop out of this race? senator oh, absolutely not. you know, they say if it's sunday morning, it's meet the press. i'll tell you, it's a pastor. it's for me. it's church time. and i can tell you that there have been more than a few sundays when i wish i had preached a better sermon, but after the sermon was over, it was my job to embody the message, to show up for the people that i serve. and that's what joe biden has been doing his entire life. his entire life of public service. and over the last four years, he's been showing up for the american people. he's been showing up for seniors as they've been dealing with the rising costs of prescription drugs, of having to choose between buying food and buying medicine and the wealthiest nation on the planet. he's been showing up for workers. he's been showing up for folks who, chasing the

american dream, found themselves mired in student debt, a kind of government sanctioned debt trap. and he found a way while being resisted by trump's allies, to forgive that debt and give people a fighting chance. the question this morning is not what is joe biden going to do? the question is, who has donald trump ever shown up for other than himself and people like himself? i'm with joe biden, and it's our assignment, to make sure that he gets over the finish line come november, not for his sake, but for the country's sake. senator, i hear you saying, look, this was a bad performance, but a lot of democrats are saying, boy, it was more than that. it raised real concerns about his readiness, his ability to serve another four years. what was your reaction when you saw him struggling to complete sentences ? well, listen, if they weren't engaged in a little bit of hand wringing, they wouldn't be democrats, and again, maybe it's

because i preach every sunday, they're bad debates happen, as president obama has said. and this was 90 minutes. but let me tell you about that 90 minutes. donald trump lied the entire 90 minutes. one analysis said that he told about 30 lies, i'm not real good in math, but i think that's about a lie. every 90s that's real talent. that means that whenever his mouth was moving, he was lying. and we can't have somebody like that in the oval office that that's not a talent we need, leading the free world. and so joe biden has demonstrated not over 90 minutes, but over the last four years. the character and the mettle of the man that he is. and he has demonstrated this both in his public service. and in his personal life. his is a life of public service. yeah. baptized in sorrow. and it is why you feel his sense of care

when you're with him. and it's our job. democracy is a group project. it's our job to make sure that donald trump gets nowhere near the oval office. and yet, senator, it was president biden's job to push back on those lies that you mentioned. and by all accounts, he either wasn't capable or wasn't ready to do that. during that debate on thursday night. why shouldn't democrats, his supporters, be deeply concerned about his ability to take on donald trump? what you have framed as an existential threat? i have to admit to you that, i almost forgot how much donald trump lies. and one of the other things that i saw in that debate and the american people saw, if you want to talk about the big takeaway, we saw donald trump trash talking the whole country as he's been doing over the last

several years, trash talking our workers, saying that there are people who are dying everywhere. in fact, the murder rate spiked under his leadership has gone down in record numbers under, under president biden's leadership, he's been trash talking our country. if you listen to donald trump, you have to come away with a conclusion that he thinks he's better than america. the opposite is true. america is better. a whole lot better than donald trump. and we've had a primary. it's our job to demonstrate that the world is watching, and our children are counting on us to get this right. so if that's the case, if those are the stakes, the future of this country and the children of this country, if you think president biden should stay in this race, what do you think he needs to do to be able to win? because i have to tell you, i've been having conversations with democrats throughout the weekend who say he cannot win this race at this point. he needs to keep showing up the way. he need to show up

more. does he need to show up more? senator? does he need to be doing more interviews and more debates, i think i think he needs to keep showing up the way he has been showing up for the american people and for the people in my state. when we passed a bipartisan infrastructure bill, we invested, some $9 billion in my state alone. this is creating jobs, some 600,000 jobs all across our country. and i think part of the reason we're here, with all due respect, christian, is that often in our politics in america, it's covered like it's a football game. this is not fantasy football. this this is people's lives. we're talking about. and we spend a lot of time on these programs talking about the politicians as if politics is about the politicians. who's up, who's down over after one debate, who's in and who's out. i think the american people sitting around their kitchen tables this morning is asking, are asking, who cares who's thinking about me? who cares about me? and we

have no proof that donald trump has ever thought about anybody other than himself. well, when you think about what the next several months of this debate and this race are going to look like, the debate will continue to be front and center, undoubtedly. and the rnc signaling what their attacks are going to look like. they posted this video spotlighting democrats claims about the fitness of president biden. and it really is a preview of what we may see. take a look. he is sharp, intensely probing and detail oriented and focused. this is a man who is sharp, who is on top of his game, who knows what's going on. this guy is tough. he's smart. he's on his game. his mental acuity is great. this is a very sharp president. this is a man that's on his game. senator, do those comments reflect the joe biden you know, when you are with him behind closed doors? oh, absolutely. i have spent time

with joe biden and i can tell you that not only does he have a tough mind, he has a tender heart. and that's what you need in a president. donald trump has neither. he lacks both intellectual curiosity and emotional empathy. but but he doesn't think deeply about anything. and he's not thinking about anybody other than himself. that is the binary choice in front of us. and again, with all due respect, i think that this exercise and fantasizing about a scenario that that we don't have, yeah, is unhelpful. we that we can ill afford to be distracted at a time like this. we have a man who has the competence and the character to lead this great nation and who loves this nation. we have another man who thinks he's better than the nation and it is our job to prove that america is better than donald trump. does he need to prove that in a more robust way? for example, the white house released a summary of the president's annual physical back in february. no cognitive exam

was done at the time for the sake of transparency. should president biden take a cognitive exam before the election and release those results? listen in the course of an election, and i'm not a part of the campaign and the course of an election, we ought to test these men, and they ought to be out there in front of the public, we ought to see who they are. and quite frankly, the more i hear donald trump talking, the more nervous i become. i don't need. so is that a yes to a cognitive test? cognitive exam? is that. well, listen, i'm not a doctor. i listen, it's not something. quite frankly, i've even thought about. i'll tell you, watching donald trump the other night, i had to say to myself that this this is a sick person. i mean, how do you stand and literally lie every 90s? i don't i don't know anybody like that. we're not even talking about whether you're worthy to be the president of the united states. this is somebody with, with,

with a deep personal issue. and america is better than donald trump. senator, i know we're not there yet, but as you well know, there's a lot of buzz about whether or not president biden will step down. if he does, would you like to see vice president harris at the top of the ticket? is she the next strongest person to represent democrats? i have great respect for vice president harris, whom i spent a great deal of time with. and but joe biden is the nominee, and i'm going to do everything i can to make sure we elect joe biden and kamala harris come november. if he's not the nominee, is she the strongest choice? i think it is quite unhelpful to be imagining about a scenario other than the one that's in front of us. we we've got real enemies abroad, and this is a serious race at a moment. listen, elections at the end of the day are not only about the character of the folks who are running, but the character of the country. and this is our moral assignment in

this moment to demonstrate to our children that we are better than a people who would reelect somebody who is a pathological liar, a malignant narcissist. our country is better than that. and i think the future is bright. under joe biden's leadership. senator warnock, thank you so much for your time this morning. we really appreciate it. thank you. good morning everybody. all right. and when we come back he's on the short list of donald trump's vice presidential picks. north dakota governor doug burgum joins me next. at fisher investments, we may look like other money managers, but we're different. you can't be that different. we are. we have a team of specialists, not only in investing, but also in financial and estate planning and more. your clients rely on you for all that. yes and as a fiduciary, we always put their interests first. but you still

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believe that because he does better in polls than any of the democrats are talking about. welcome back. in virginia. on friday, former president trump tried to capitalize on president biden's debate performance while casting doubts about whether mr. biden will drop out of the presidential race. joining me now is republican governor doug burgum of north dakota, a top finalist to be mr. trump's running mate. governor burgum, welcome back to meet the press. good morning, christian. good to be with you. thank you for being here in person. let's talk about donald trump's debate performance three times. he refused to say that he would accept the results of this election. he still has not conceded the 2020 election. you have said that joe biden is legitimately elected president. so let me ask you, should donald trump, as the presidential nominee, unequivocally accepts the election results? well, chris and i heard him on thursday night say that he would accept the results of the

election if it was free and fair and secure. all the things that any of us, whether you're an independent, a democrat or a republican, would expect, like the elections we have in north dakota, where people don't challenge them because we've got secure elections. and i think that's what we need in this entire country. i think he answered the question. i think the real question is, you know, if president trump wins in the fall, which it looks like he will, i mean, will joe biden and the democrats accept the results? as you know, though, in his answer repeatedly, there were caveats and those types of caveats are what undermine people's faith in a free and fair democracy. is he not undermining people's faith in the democracy and the democracy itself by raising questions about the fairness of the 2020 election, which, by the way, is on record as being one of the most fair elections in us history. i think this i have to reject the whole premise because just in the short lifetime, you don't have to be that old to know that in 2000, the democrats challenged the election. they had every right to challenge it.

it went down to one county, the hanging chads in broward county, and florida in 2016. yes, hillary clinton conceded the election, but then immediately after that began, you know, a what's still going on today, a smear campaign about whether the election results in 16 were legitimate. and so both parties have done this as a country, if we want to move forward, we have to have elections that both parties agree to. governor, let me just push back for a moment, because therein lies the difference. everyone has a right to challenge the election. donald trump challenged the election results. he had a right to do that. and yet hillary clinton and al gore conceded donald trump has yet to concede. is that not undemocratic, particularly for someone who's running to be the leader of this country in the free world? again donald trump at the end of his term on january 20th, left the white house. we had a smooth transition, and i think it's fair january 6th wasn't exactly a smooth transition. governor. well, i think we have to say that there was a smooth transition and everybody in both parties is going to challenge

elections if they don't think they're fair and we don't have one election in america, there's over 3100 counties, and each of those counties sometimes have different rules. and in 2020, of course, with covid, there is a myriad set of new rules and regulations that we had never seen before. and so of course, i think going into 2024, i think both parties are going to be very focused on it. and i think this is a the idea that this this is the threat to democracy. as a governor in north dakota today, i've been living under what i call the biden dictatorship because of all the rules and regulations. now, thank goodness for this supreme court that came out on friday with the with the chevron ruling, because maybe now we can put a stop to agencies actually creating laws that don't come from congress. let me ask you about your comments about a dictatorship. and then i want to get back to this because you say he's a dictator for passing all these rules and regulations. biden's passed 139 executive orders. trump had passed 169 at this point. and, governor, you as governor have passed 164. does that make you the dictator of north dakota? i'm not trying

to jam rules and regulations down on our state. i'm most and most of president trump's executive orders. we're trying to get rid of red tape. joe biden's actually creating a bunch of new, effectively laws that are affecting our country. and i want to go back to the debate. i want to go back to the top. you asked about the debate. every channel this morning should be talking about what happened. this was the most consequential historic debate in history because we've never had a debate where the immediately after it's over, this is like a rocky knockout. i mean, they should build a statue to donald trump at georgia tech because everyone's talking about should joe biden even stay in the race? that's never happened in our in our history. it was such a dominant performance by president trump in this in this debate. it's also never happened in our history that someone has not actually accepted the election results, which is where this conversation began. so let me ask you, governor, can you say, as someone who is on the short list to be trump's vp nominee, can you commit here and now today to accepting the

election results? well, kristen, you're these these hypothetical questions that keep coming up imply that somehow that in every one of our 3100 counties in america, that everything is going to go perfectly. i've never commented on a bill before it reached my desk. i'm not going to comment on an election before you commit to accepting the election results, governor. i will commit to if it's their free and fair, of course. but this hypothetical question that everyone keeps asking the democrats won't accept it if they think there's going to. if there irregularities in the fall, ask joe biden if he would accept it, if he thought it wasn't free and fair, if he thought there was issues, would he accept it? so the premise that only one party gets asked this question is just a false premise. well again, the democrats have said that they will accept the election results and no democrat has refused to concede who is running for office. again, just one more time. does that not undermine the democracy, people's faith in our democracy to caveat it in the way that you have? again, election officials have said the last election was the safest in us history. what undermines the faith in democracy? and we've

seen in the polls people trust president trump more than biden on democracy right now. and the democrat party in this election. four years ago, when we ended up with the current ticket on the democrat side, that was this grand devil's bargain of everybody drop out. we're going with these two. then the biggest lie that has been foisted on the american public was, was seen on thursday night. people can't unsee what they saw. what they saw was we've been told by the white house two weeks ago, the white house was attacking journalists, including your friends, saying that, no, you can't say these stories about the joe biden isn't serving, you know, isn't capable of serving right now. and then all of america saw it. and you know who else saw it? our adversaries saw it. putin saw it. she saw it. well, the ayatollah saw it. i mean, the nation we keep talking about elections. we are at a greater national security risk today than we were on thursday, because the commander in chief showed that he's not capable of serving. well, there's not proof of that. but, governor, let me just ask you about the debate and a little bit more of what we

saw. by one count, donald trump made more than 30 false claims during that debate. i want to play something you told my colleague chuck todd on this broadcast last year. take a look. you ever lied in politics, know that. you know, if you don't believe you've ever lied. no. you feel like you've always told the truth as you understood it. yeah, absolutely. that's how i was raised. and that's how i've gone forward. as someone who is on donald trump's short list to be his vice presidential nominee, do you think he should stop saying things that are not true? i think that the whole manufactured thing this morning of that donald trump has said something that he hasn't said before. i mean, everything that he said on thursday night, he's been saying before. i mean, so this isn't this isn't manufactured, this is not news. but this is not manufactured, governor. i mean, just to say a few he said that democrats want to kill infants after birth. that's not true. he again lied about widespread fraud. not true. he lied about its comments after charlottesville. should he be truthful with the american people if he wants to lead this country? well especially given

what you just said, that you never lie. that's your standard, governor. well, i think you bring up an important issue, because i think one of the reasons why the democrats are in complete disarray, it's not just joe biden's performance, but they were running on something, which is that donald trump, they were concerned about republicans position on life. and donald trump was very clear he will not support a federal abortion ban. he was super clear on that during the debate. and when he challenged joe biden and said, will you agree to any restrictions? the moderators asked joe biden, will you agree to any restrictions? you know, in the last day of the ninth month? and joe biden would not commit to that. so it's been the marker has been set. the democrats have the extreme position. and like president trump, i believe this belongs back at the states. and that's where it should stay. well, and of course, democrats have said that they only support those abortions. if, of course, the life of the mother is at stake or the life of the child, i want to play something that you said about abortion when you were running for governor in 2016, when you outlaw the ability to

terminate pregnancies and make it illegal, it just makes it unsafe for some of the most vulnerable people in the world. young women who were scared, who were afraid, who were in a spot, you know, that they don't want to be in america was an unsafe place for women before roe versus wade. just to put a fine point on what you said there, you said america was an unsafe place for women before roe versus wade. so by your own standard, governor, is america unsafe for women as a result of roe being overturned? no, it's not. and of course, this is something that should have been returned to the states. so you've evolved in that in your thinking in that because you said, right there it's it was unsafe for women before roe was let's be clear, that was changed. that was a comment from, over eight years ago. and certainly i've evolved in that position. but part of it i've evolved is that i understand that it's important that what north dakota has a very pro-life state, different than even our neighbor minnesota, the states are going to be different. and i have been clear that i'm opposed to a federal abortion ban. i'm aligned with president trump on that. and this is something that

has to be left to the states. but i'm just to be very clear how and what what changed your mind? why did you think it was unsafe before roe v wade? and why not now? is it because you're looking to be the vice presidential nominee to donald trump? not at all. i think, you know, and everybody else knows that that care has evolved during that period of time. and i think that we can accomplish both of those goals. we can make sure that we're protecting and honoring life, but making sure we're also delivering against maternal care. and that's going to handled best at a state by state level. obviously, as we started this conversation, we talked about the fact that you're on the short list to be donald trump's running mate. have you heard from the president about this? has he asked you to be his running mate, everything about the process of the vice president thing, that's between the campaign and those that might be being considered. but i would just say that president trump, after his strong debate performance on thursday, where he was going in the polls before that, what this is doing for his fundraising, the strong performance he has is he's got

so many good choices that he can pick for this job. he can probably win the election without a vice president. i think going forward. but i think he'll make he'll make it. have you had any conversations about it? yes. or no? governor, before we go, we're out of time. but yes or no, i that would be between the president and i. okay, well, that's not a no. okay. see, i lost my pen. good. we made some news. thank you, governor. i appreciate it, governor burgum. thank you so much. when we come back, pressure is growing for president biden to drop out of the race. so will he step aside? we'll discuss it. the panel is next. type two diabetes. discover the ozempic tri-zone 0000. then i got the power of three. i lowered my a1c cv risk and lost some weight and studies. the majority of people reached an a1c under seven and maintained it. i'm under seven. ozempic lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack or death in adults. also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i

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for smarter solutions, big things can happen. are you comfortable with the role? the supreme court is playing in the 2024 election? is there not more that israel can do to help the humanitarian crisis? should abortion be the number one issue in 2024? if it's sunday, it's meet the press. welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news chief political analyst chuck todd, christina londono rooney, senior washington correspondent for telemundo, former obama white house communications director jennifer palmieri and marc short, former chief of staff to vice president mike pence. thanks to all of you for being here. no shortage of things to discuss on this sunday. chuck, let me start with you. like you have been working the phones and hearing panicked calls from democrats throughout the weekend. what are you hearing? take us inside your conversations. well, look, i mean, thursday night to friday morning. it was full on panic, and everybody was trying to

figure out what are the rules of the dnc. how would this work? who could get to biden? who could get to jill biden to talk them out of this? i would say over the weekend, there's this sort of resignation. what i would say is there's not much that can be done without his cooperation. okay? this only happens if he chooses to do it. and there appears to be an unofficial memo that has gone out that has said, if you want him to get out, don't say it yet, because if you say it publicly, you know there's nothing, nothing will get him more defiant about staying in this race than the new york times editorial page saying, get out of this race. so it was there is this and you could see it. there's been some public, leakage of report of some donors saying this. i think reid hoffman sort of indicating this, but, you know, look, there's about a ten day window here. okay. i am i am fascinated by the by some things we haven't seen. we haven't seen biden one rally that they were able to put together in north carolina that was very difficult to put

together. rallies are very hard right now for democrats because they have to worry about gaza protesters and all of this other stuff. yes that went well. where is he? since if you have issues about whether you can think on your feet, you and it's not a problem and it's just a bad debate, what would you be doing? you'd be flooding the flooding the airwaves. you'd be doing interviews, whether it's podcasts, whether it's this or that. you go to friendly spots, whatever the fact they're not doing any of that, i think is one of those, hey, look what's not happening. that's a big deal too. yeah. christina, pick up on that point. i mean, basically, democrats are also waiting to see what the polling will show. and the public has the final say here. we all saw the same debate, but if it doesn't have a big impact with the public, with voters, president biden could make the argument, hey, look, i'm going to stay in this race. how are people who you're talking to reacting to what we witnessed on thursday? well, the voters that we talked to, we had a town hall meeting and in la

with latino leaders and a lot of them said that they didn't hear anything new. it was more form over substance. and they're saying that their worst fears they had of both of them came, were confirmed and came and came true. they see a biden who did not put to rest their concerns about the his acuity, mental acuity. they were resentful that he didn't defend them more against the litany of lies that they that donald trump was saying, and they were very resentful of the gulf back and forth between them. they said it's too old, white man being childish, talking about something that most of the working class does not understand. and then i was out talking to registered voters in atlanta. one of them said he'd rather vote for biden, an 80 something that sometimes loses

his train of thought than a man that has 80 something criminal charges against him. there was another guy who who said he's going to stick with trump. this did not change, but there was a couple that was very interesting , because what they said to me is that they loved joe biden, especially because he was the guy that saved the country from trump being reelected. and they are concerned that by staying, he's going to be the guy that brings them back. jen, give us the reality check inside. the democratic party can he stay in this race? so i think this is where people are. i mean, i think chuck chuck is right about how, you know, a lot of concern on friday night. and now now we're 48 hours in. and the funny thing is, the deeper we get into it, the more you realize how early this is, right? it's it is, you know, it was a it was a bad performance and it was particularly concerning given his age. but you know, polls right now are kind of meaningless. and then when you

look at the actual evidence he's raised, there's a new number. now, i think it's $33 million. he had, you know, there the campaign points to his good performance on friday in north carolina. think what's important about that performance isn't necessarily that it was the way the crowd reacted to him. and so i think people are seeing is there a rallying effect here, people having his back? we i have certainly been guilty of underestimating, like i did not think he was going to win the 2020 nomination. i have underestimated, like the american people decided in 2017, joe biden is the guy to take on trump. and do you really want to mess with that now, given the stakes and when the only evidence we have right now is there seems to be a rallying effect and i think people are. that is why people are not. that's why people are hanging back, you know, and not and not criticizing him and giving his room to for everyone to process what this means. and it's, you know, people are approaching

this with a lot of integrity. i think they're just trying to figure out what the right thing to do is. well, and speaking of that, i mean, mark a republicans almost a little nervous for president biden to get out of the race because then that's a game changer. and by the way, you're getting a lot of ratings for a brokered convention. all of a sudden, all of that focus on donald trump will shift pretty quickly to the democrats. christian i think that it was an absolute disaster for the biden campaign on thursday night, and i think that most of america is already locked in on what they're going to do. there's only a small sliver of people undecided, so you're not going to see a lot of change in polls, which i think will be a false comfort to many democrats. but the reality is, for this very small number of undecided voters they were looking to see, can he make it in the most important job in the world for another four years? and now they're wondering, can he make it for another six months? i mean, it was a dramatic, dramatic failing for president obama, for president biden in that appearance. and i think the reality is that for republicans, they probably are pretty encouraged where they stand. and there's no way out for democrats

right now. christian if they go to kamala harris, she's less popular than joe biden. and if the party of identity politics passes over the first african american female vice president to choose somebody else, there's going to be all kinds of rifts. but this is, you know, democrats want to lecture republicans for not putting for putting party over country and how they've been enabling of donald trump. mitch mcconnell is frequently, criticized for that moment where he decided to prioritize not dividing his own party and letting trump off the hook by not voting to convict him during the impeachment, can democrats really sit there and say, you know, this is not about whether you think biden can win the election. he might be able to win the election. it's not because he's joe biden. it's because he's not donald trump. the real issue is, is he telling the truth about whether he can serve a full four years and this do you there's a lot of challenges in the world. do you we want a president who could be incapacitated. this is this this is one of those where you got to say to yourself, this is hard.

there's no doubt there's risk, no matter what you do here. but you got to say to yourself, what's in the best interest of the country, not the party. what's in the best interests of the country in the next four years? and people don't know that yet. you know, that's a fair point. you know, it's a pretty big deal to say that president united states is unable to do his job when there's not any evidence of that, given the job that he's done. all right. i'm going to pause it because we have another panel coming up. we're going to continue this discussion when we come back, a very memorable moment in atlanta with millions watching that wasn't a presidential debate. we look back on muhammad ali's iconic olympic torch lighting at the 1996 games. our meet the press minute is next. to retiring business executives turn their post-career mission to greyhounds, giving these former race dogs a real chance to win. from planning your future to pursuing your passions, a raymond james financial advisor

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but we are one of the very few that deliver results like these. when your life has been impacted by an injury, there's only one firm to call sweet james. when it comes to weather forecasting, accuracy is what moves the bay area forward. this will be the hottest day so far this year, and that's where our team really shines. nbc bay area's microclimate weather team certified most accurate eight years in a row. welcome back. the paris olympics are now less than a month away, with final preparations underway as the city prepares to welcome more than 15 million fans. in 1996, olympic gold medalist muhammad ali lit the cauldron during the opening ceremony to the atlanta games. a ceremony also dedicated to the memory of doctor martin luther king jr. civil rights leader andrew young, the olympics co-chair and atlanta's former mayor, reflected on this moment in an interview with meet

the press. when we were selecting who should light the torch, we really wanted that team. we wanted evander holyfield and a great greek sprinter, and we wanted janet evans, and we thought muhammad ali was the best known athlete who really took his sport to a new level. and i think though, that if martin was right, that violence is the language of the unheard, that everybody in the world is speaking, in these olympics in some way, and the presence of muhammad ali should have been a symbol of the fact that we're protestant, catholic, jew, muslim, hindu, all working together. and you can watch the paris olympics this summer on nbc and streaming on peacock. when we come back, it's donald trump's most important decision before the party convention

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your case could be worth. we will help you get the best result possible. the bondsman injury attorneys, call one 808 million. what happened to your dreams of becoming a famous villain? i did manage to steal the moon. you mean that moon denominations group? i will exterminate you. regular unleaded. wow! it is expensive. no. okay. insert card and remove rapidly card. not read. did you pull it out rapidly? very rapidly. despicable me for the thrill of the double life. rated . pg. and the panel is back. jen, let's talk about what would happen if president biden were to make that decision to step aside to pass the torch. what

would that look like? what would an open or brokered convention look like, it's kind of unappealing. so i think that's partly why people, you know, everyone is it's like it's just processing. like what? you know what that's going to be. so, it if he decided to step aside before the, prior to the convention, you know, people could people could run and you would have you'd have a ballots after ballots until somebody came emerge from the convention as a, as a winner. there's this one idea that i think james carville has that maureen dowd talk about today, where you were obama, clinton and biden would select five people to go to the convention like america's got talent. i don't i deb's got talent. i mean, we do, but i don't i mean, i think that people would self select themselves. i don't think somebody can pick them. and then they would and then they would, you know, and you would have a, a convention. now there's an argument. wow, that would be so exciting. and wow, you'd come out of that with like energized.

but it's also we also know that you know an idea and prince you know sounds good. and then once you unleash it into the world you just never know what you're doing. and i think that's what people are worried about. look, i will say this. if when you're afraid of democracy, then you're already making a mistake, right? when you make decisions based on. well, i'm afraid more people will be involved in this process. like, this is just sort of every time a political party worries about the voters and then tries to sort of create a system that sort of kind of side sideswipe, you're opening yourself up for problems here. that said, let's be realistic here. if he decides to do this to back off, he controls his delegates. yeah, because he already they are already his delegates. yes, he would control essentially he'd be king or queen maker here and there is really no other option. okay. it's kamala harris and i kind of think everybody needs to just realize this. it's going to be her, which perhaps is why suddenly you have other democratic figures saying as much as they want this, they're nervous. if she leads the ticket . but i think you look at biden's poll numbers and say, if you believe this is about biden, then you would say, stick with

them. i think it's pretty obvious this is about trump, which is why biden is i mean, you know, we should look at this through the other prism. how is trump not gotten a lift out of this? i think it just shows you how well, look, he's he's got a popular he's got a high floor and a low ceiling and that's that's the dynamic. that's why i said in the first panel, i don't think you see a big difference in the polling. but for that very small number, our country is so divided for that very small number who are still undecided, they don't have no confidence that biden can be president again. and kamala harris is the only one who doesn't do as well against trump. is any other democrat. so where do they go? yeah, i mean, right now she doesn't do as well. christina, i spoke to someone who said, well, wait a minute, it could look a little bit different if this happens. this scenario that jen lays out, what if former president barack obama and hillary clinton and bill clinton say, hey, support this person. we're throwing our weight behind this person that could potentially change the dynamic, potentially for kamala harris. well, the talk and the eyes of the country and of the nation would be in that

contested convention. they would be kingmakers. what does that say about democracy? that's one of the questions. and would it be a boost or a bust? we don't know. it depends on the infighting, the chaos. i don't think the american people have a lot of big stomach for more chaos and more divisiveness. yeah. at this point, i think you're right. i think that people are. but regardless, the campaign has to change. if biden is going to stay, it's pretty obvious anybody that has dealt with elderly parents or elderly friends knows this. it's like going bankrupt. okay, first it happens slowly, then it happens quickly. yeah. and that it'd be irresponsible for the biden campaign at this point, not to make her more front and center. if they're going to stick with this, she's got to be the lead she has got. they got to get the country comfortable with her because there is a lot of people are going to go to the polls with the assumption if biden is leading the top of the ticket, that he's not going to finish his term. so it would be irresponsible if the biden campaign didn't essentially help her make a better connection with the american people.

arguably, the biden west wing has never been fans of kamala harris. it's obvious they sort of have always sort of kind of ostracized her, and they kind of need to put her more front center. that may have been true in one point. i don't feel like that's true anymore. she was really great on. she was really great on thursday night. she's good. you know, i think you're she makes the most effective argument on abortion. you know, i think you i think she might be a better advocate for him than herself. she's a great advocate on abortion. she calls him trump. abortion bans. what the you know, which is what everybody should call them. and so i think you will see more of her. even if thursday night had been awesome, i think she would be out there more. and that's a good thing. mark one beat on veepstakes for trump. i tried to get an answer out of doug burgum. he went so far as to suggest that there have been conversations. i'm sure there have. who's your i mean, who do you think he's going to pick? if you had to make a bet that the story is right, we about a month ago on this panel, i think i said it would be burgum, marco rubio or jd vance. i think burgum provides the personality

complement to donald trump. he provides the midwestern governor. he provides a lot of assurances to a lot of people loyalty, loyalty, familiar. i know it sounds a lot like vice president mike pence. marco rubio provides, i think, the most substance as far as understanding international foreign policy. jd vance is a mini me, so i don't know which way he's going to go. last 10s christina, final thoughts on what you're watching for in veepstakes. well, obviously we're telemundo. we're watching to see if marco rubio gets it. he would be the first hispanic. it would be a history making decision. and obviously we're watching how he justifies what he said about trump before and how now he's fallen in line with him. but we're expecting that from all three of them right now. it's a great point. and one of the big shifts we've seen is on his view on immigration. so great point. thank you all for a fantastic conversation on a very big sunday. and before we go, i just want to thank my dear friend and colleague peter alexander, who did a phenomenal job in the moderator's chair for these past few weeks. john margo and i were so thrilled to welcome john zachary into our

lives, and a very big thanks to all of you out there for your support. that is all for today. thank you so much for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's meet the press. more americans turn to nbc news than any other news organization . your emblem of devotion. have your engagement ring custom made by the jewelry exchange. choose a one carat lab grown diamond for 5.99. or a natural gia for 1990. 18 mounds are for 99 thousands of choices. always the best deal. the jewelry exchange, redwood city. if you're an

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