>> i'm jane pauley. we wish you the very best in 2024, and please join us when our trumpet sounds again next "sunday morning." ♪ . i'm margaret brennan in washington. this week on "face the nation" -- at year's end, america's migrat. will 2024 finally bring some solutions? every day this month, thousands of migrants crossed

america's southern border into the u.s. increasing the strain on both federal officials and local communities. meanwhile, bipartisan negotiators in the senate are struggling to strike a deal that might stem the crisis and overhaul immigration laws for the first time in nearly 40 years. but with the issue tied up in the debate over aid for ukraine, israel and more, what will it take to find a compromise? we'll check in with the top republican negotiator, south carolina senator lindsey graham and hear from two democratic mayors who say the influx of migrants has brought their cities to a breaking point and want more help from the biden administration. with just over two weeks until voters choose the republican nominee, the candidates are trying to topple frontrunner donald trump and are struggling through some unforced errors. >> what do you want me to say about slavery? >> is trump's own candidacy jeopardy as two states seek to

disqualify him citing his role in the attack on the u.s. capitol. in nine days, an appeals court will consider trump's claim of presidential immunity. special counsel jack smith warns in an urgent new court filing all presidents can be held criminally liable and trump should face consequences for trying to seize power despite losing the 2020 election. the latest from david becker. it's all just ahead on "face the nation." ♪ good morning. welcome to "face the nation." we have a lot to get to on this new years a eve, but we want to begin with the dire situation at the southern border. new customs and border protection data obtained by cbs

news show that agency is on track to process more than 300,000 migrants, an all-time monthly high. that includes record numbers of families and children. meanwhile, cities, states and federal law enforcement report being overwhelmed as the ripple effects spread from border communities to all across the country. for the latest, we are joined by cbs immigration and politics reporter camilla montoya. you've done extraordinary reporting on this. can you tell us what is really driving the sharp increase and who is making up the majority of migrants? >> i think margaret, the more precise answers the push and pull factors have intensified to a degree i don't think we have ever seen in u.s. history. we have a relatively stable economy here with many job openings and that is driving a lot of migration. we also have an immigration

system that is massively backlogged and cannot determine quickly who qualifies for asylum and does not. that also attracts migration. those are the pull factors. we have powerful push factors as well. the deteriorating political and economic conditions in venezuela, countries in africa and asia are driving record numbers of people to the u.s. this is truly an unprecedented crisis of humanitarian proportions along the border. we have never seen this before. a quarter of a million migrants are processed each month at the u.s.-mexico border. >> breathtaking. this is a hemisphere wide crisis. >> that's right. >> the president sent the homeland security secretary, secretary of state to mexico to press mexico's president to help police that border. what did they achieve? >> i was told that u.s. officials asked mexican president andres manuel obrador to increase enforcement within the interior of mexico to stem the flow of migration further south at the guatemala-mexico border and divert migrants away

from northern mexico and along the u.s. border. it illustrates the role that mexico plays in how we deal with this complex and vexing problem. we are relying on mexico, margaret, to do much of this border enforcement and immigration policy because they really are the key player in this debate. they have to accept the returns of non-xens and that is a big task for the biden administration. >> we know that some of those ports have actually been shut down. >> for commercial and vehicle traffic which is a huge economic, yeah, consequence for mexico and the u.s., correct. >> exactly. this is beyond humanitarian crisis. we're at so many levels of complexity now. texas' governor has signed into law that hasn't yet taken effect, but it would in march. >> that's right. >> the ability for his state law

enforcement to stop migrants and arrest them. texas has vowed they will fight this all the way to the supreme court, but the biden administration is going to take them on. >> this will be one of the most important legal clashes on immigration in 2024. the justice department has already told texas this law will undermine relations with mexico and prevent federal officials from enforcing federal immigration laws, including u.s. asylum law which allows migrantses on u.s. soil to request asylum even if they enter illegally. this law not only allows texas to prosecute and jail migrants on actions that are already legal on federal grounds and statutes but allows state judges to issue deportation orders even though mexico said it will reject returns of migrants from the state of texas. the justice department has given texas until wednesday to say it will abandon plans to enforce this law as planned in march, but that is very unlikely to happen. texas i think will try to implement this law. we should expect a prolonged

legal battle, margaret. >> potential development as soon as this wednesday. >> that's right. >> so that brings us back to what's happening here in washington or what's not happening, frankly, with lawmakers talking about trying to put together some piece of legislation. >> yes. >> to change immigration laws which haven't been updated in decades. >> since the 1990s. >> right. >> and to put in the funding that president biden has asked them for. >> that's right. >> where are we in those negotiations. >> the white house is currently entertain something sweeping border restrictions, including an authority to expel migrants when border patrol is overwhelmed and to suspend asylum, just like the title 42 pandemic era policy that ended this year to convince republicans to get on board in terms of backing additional aid to ukraine. that would have been unthinkable three years ago and speaks to the situation we're in at the u.s.-mexico border. i think that these talks will intensify in january. they could very well collapse because we are dealing after all with immigration and congress

has been desperately gridlocked on this issue for decades but there are two different factors here at play that could make this a different scenario. the white house wants aid to ukraine and it is under tremendous political pressure to do something new at the u.s.-mexico border. >> we'll follow your reporting and turn to one of those negotiators involved in the talks. that is republican senator lindsey graham who is with us from seneca, south carolina. senator, welcome back to the program. >> thank you. >> you just heard laying out for you all the incredible things that are now being considered in this proposed deal that they seem significant. do you think thank you and the republicans involved in this negotiation can get the party to sign on? >> womenell, i hope so. we need to do it for ukraine and our own national is security. the threats to america are at

all-time high from jihadist groups, a broken border, 300,000 people in december alone, up about 400% from 2020. here's the key i think. we're asking the administration to use title 42 type authority to tell people we're full. it takes four years to get your asylum claim heard. we have 1.7 million ready to be deported but they won't deport them. we need to send some people out of the country to stop the inflow, but title 42 authority in the hands of any administration willing to use it would stop this. whether you come to our border we say i'm sorry, we're full. >> at what number would you institute this? this would allow for the expulsion of migrants without an asylum hearing? >> i'm sorry. >> okay. here's what -- yes. okay. we turn people back because of covid. we have a pandemic in the country. our system is broken. you're going to have mayors talking about more money to help relocate migrants.

we're not going to have a remain in texas policy. i don't know if abbott will win in court having a state law to deal with this or not, but he's a desperate man trying to protect his state. to the mayors, call up the white house and say we're republicans, to change asylum, change parole, but implement a title 42 authority to that would stop the inflow. we're full, don't come. >> we'll talk to the mayors about that. they are asking the biden administration for help. are you suggesting here there isn't yet agreement on expulsion authority in your group of negotiators? >> there is -- there is -- i am telling you right now, expedited removal is on the table. they want more exceptions to make the rule almost meaningless. we're having to pull teeth to change policy. this is not a regular migration. that's a bunch of b.s. this is a predictable outcome of bad policy choices made right after biden became president. we all said if you do away with remain in mexico you will have a run on the border.

bad choices led to this. >> complicated with the mexican government too -- >> no. it's not complicated. >> well, in the past -- >> it's not complicated. >> you suggested in interviews that parole was a sticking point, specifically. that part of the policy -- >> it still is. >> is it a deal breaker for you? what do you want to change? >> well, under our law, you're supposed to parole people on an individual basis. they're using humanitarian parole, a concept not in law, to parole people at 145,000 a clip. i want to go back to the original intent of the law. i don't want to do anything dramatic. i want to enforce the law. the asylum laws are being abused and laz chick them. title 42 authority needs to be applied here on the concept that america is full. if you have to wait four years for an asylum hearing slow down the asylum system. 1.7 million are ready to be deported. deport them before we let new people in. >> you are not asking for what the house was demanding, this

bill known as h.r. 2. >> h.r. 2, right. >> have you been talking at all to speaker johnson about what he would be willing to put on the floor? >> yes. >> what is he willing to do? >> yes. we need policy changes that address the pull factors. there's nothing irregular going on in the world. this was created by policy choices that created new pull factors. asylum form, limitations on parole, reinvoking title 42 i think would be enough to get it through the house. the policy changes have to be real. we have to start deporting people to slow down the inflow. if you see people leaving the country, people are less likely to show up at the border. i'm urging the biden administration, when trump gets to be president f he does, if you're here illegally you're going to be deported. there's going to be mass deportation under donald trump of people here in violation of the law who have received a final order of deportation. they're going it be going. >> well, i'm -- some of those

have restarted in terms of venezuela. there are a lot of complicating diplomatic factors here with some of the countries you're talking about. i want to make sure i ask you about the connection here to ukraine. you've seen this incredible attack. >> yeah. >> by russia on kyiv. the most significant missile attacks since this war has begun, and it happens days after the united states sends the last shipment of aid for 2023. do you see a connection and when will ukraine aid get through the senate? >> it will be a package. i want to help israel. they're under siege. i'm not objecting to secretary blinken sending them weapons as an emergency declaration. i think it makes sense. ukraine, i want to help desperately, but we got to help ourselves. i cannot come back to south carolina and talk about giving aid to ukraine and israel if the border is still broken. it is not broken. it's in chaos. i cannot tell you the humanitarian problems people are suffering due to this immigration, but our national

security is very much at risk, so ukraine aid has to be tied to border. >> right. but we're still not there on border, so both seem very much -- >> right. >> at risk right now? >> yeah. here's what i would tell the biden administration. accept the idea that we're full. give us -- take the tools we're willing to give you to stop the inflow. start deporting people here who should be, you know, deported. then you'll turn things around pretty quickly. to the biden administration, accept the tools that would change things and get money for ukraine. >> i want to make sure that you are on the judiciary committee, i ask you about what is happening for the pressure for the supreme court potentially to take on some of these cases involving the election. you said back in 2021 after the senate impeachment trial, you said, of donald trump, the president's conduct is subject to the law of the land. if you believe he committed a

crime, he could still be prosecuted after he's out of office. do you stand by that statement that mr. trump could be prosecuted and criminally liable? >> yeah. it depends on what conduct is. if you're doing your job as president, january 6th he was still president trying to find out if the election, you know, was on the up and up, i think his immunity claim, i don't know how it will bear out, but i think it's a legitimate claim. but they're prosecuting him for activity around january 6th. he didn't break into the capitol. he gave a fiery speech, but he's not the first guy to ever do that. at the end of the day, i think this case will not go to trial before the election. i think there are more legal issues around this than you can imagine about what can a president do as president, what are the limitations of being president? >> to be clear, you do not believe that a president should be immune from prosecution if he committed a felony?

>> well, it depends on -- right. i mean nobody is immune from the law, but you have presidential immunity to do your job. i have immunity to do my job under the speech and debate clause. that's what the legal issue is. this went before the nation through impeachment. he got acquitted. i think january 6th is baked into the cake. i think the jack smith cases are not changing the political outcome. at the end of the day donald trump is in a good position to win the republican primary because republicans believe he had a good presidency and i think he can win the general election. all these -- like in maine, knocking him off the ballot the secretary of state in maine is a pretty radical person. she said the electoral college was a product of white supremacy. civil war was about slavery. the electoral college was about negotiation between small and large states. >> all this will go to the courts as you're laying out there. >> right. it will. >> ahead with david becker our election law expert.

senator graham, good to have you with us. "face the nation" will be back in a moment. stay with us.

for more on immigration, we turn to chicago's brandon johnson and denver's mike johnston. welcome to "face the nation." >> good morning. >> thank you for having us. >> thanks for joining us. and mr. mayor of chicago, i want to put to you a question about what seems to have developed overnight. there are reports of a plane from texas landing in chicago carrying more migrants that arrived around 1:00 a.m. i'm wondering if texas officials gave you any head's up, who is on the plane, what happens next? >> well, what we have is clearly an international and federal crisis that local governments are being asked to subsidize, and this is unsustainable.

none of our local economies are positioned to be able to carry on such a mission. what we've tempted to do is to create structure and coordination around this humanitarian crisis, and unfortunately, the governor of texas, governor abbott, is determined to continue to sow seeds of chaos and last night and several nights before, a number of busses continue to arrive in the city of chicago throughout the country without any coordination and now he's taking on this very dangerous task of placing individuals on airplanes and flying them in to our various cities. this is certainly a matter of not just of our national security, but it's the type of chaos that this governor is committed to administering. >> mr. mayor, mr. mayor of denver to be clear here, i know that you have looked at new york

and chicago making decisions to restrict bus arrivals. are you trying to take measures in your city to restrict them from even arriving in the first place? >>no. all we want is a system that is -- that is humanitarian for both the new folks that are arriving and for our cities and city employees. we understand there will be an inflow. we have had 35,000 migrants arrive to denver and successfully helped them integrate into the country here. what we don't want is people arriving at 2:00 in the morning at a city and county building with women and children outside in 10 degree weather and no support. we want buss to do what every other bus does, land at a bus station and stop in hours where we can have staff to receive them and to direct them towards services and so we understand the flow is coming. we want it to be coordinated and in a humanitarian way which makes it effective for the city and the newcomers. that means things like arriving 8:00 to 5:00, monday to friday with notice. >> right. and i understand that you haven't been able to get the

state of texas to stop sending people, but when it comes to your party's leadership as senator graham said, you have asked the white house for more help. did they respond? to your public call? >> yeah. we've talked to the white house and we've talked to leadership there and we think they agree on the core needs we see. we think this is a solvable problem. there are key priorities we needp with. we need federal dollars to support our work and federal dollars for more support at the border, the ability to adjudicate asylum claims more quickly to be done in 90 days and not four to six years. that makes a difference. if we have resources to support us, we have when people arrive we have work authorization when they get to a place like denver to put them to work which is what they want and a coordinated entry plan where it's not just the governor of texas deciding what cities to send people but the way we welcomed aslummies for years. we had federal support,

coordinated entru, work au authorization and those worked smoothly. we think we can do it here. >> those are different programs for those refugees, but i hear your point on the work authorization. mayor johnston of chicago, did the white house give you what you need? >> i think there's no secret here that we need comprehensive immigration reform. this comprehensive immigration reform would certainly transform this situation. in fact, it solves this crisis. what we have said repeatedly is that we need congress to act to provide the resources that are needed in order to carry out this mission. but what we can't have is a governor in the state of texas acting the way he's acting. quite frankly, the rogue busses being dropped off across this country in the middle of the night leaving people with no real support at all, no

coordination with the local municipalities, that type of chaos is certainly dividing our country and we need better coordination between all levels of government to be able to respond to this mission. >> when you reach out to the governor, i'm assuming you have, do you get any response? >> well, we sent an entire delegation to the border to see firsthand what's happening at the border. i've spoken with leaders of the mexican government. they're having the same challenges that we're having in america. there has to be a real coordinated effort to be able to respond to this crisis. again, putting people on airplanes, dropping them off in the city of chicago in denver and new york without any coordination, without a manifest, i don't know how many federal laws or aviation laws he could be violating, but this type of chaos is not what's needed in this moment. we need a coordinated effort between all levels of government to ensure that this humanitarian mission that's an international crisis is met with the type of

civility and sanctity that's required. >> understood. i checked the weather in both of your cities. it's 32 degrees in chicago. it's 25 degrees in denver. i'm guessing someone walking across from mexico isn't outfitted for that kind of frigid arrival. >> yeah. >> we see that every day. we have folks arrive in t-shirts and sandals. >> yeah. >> i want to talk about this more, but i have to take a commercial break. if you would both stay with us. as we do that, i'll be right back with you and back with you all in a moment. stay with us.

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tune in to "face the nation" next sunday for an interview with house speaker mike johnson. we'll travel to the border to speak with him, getting his thoughts on immigration reform and the rest of the agenda in washington as congress begins a new year. we'll be back in a moment. ] at t leaving the house was hard. - [speaker] but wounded warrior project helps you realize

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>> we'll be right back with the mayors of denver and chicago and our election law expert david becker. back in a moment.