i'm jane pauley. please join us when our trumpet sounds again next sunday morning. ♪ . i'm robert costa in this week on "face the nation" former president donald trump faces yet another legal setback. with the south carolina republican primary less than a week away, nikki haley is fighting to stay in the race. >> crooked judge. crooked judge. he's a crooked judge. >> former president trump lashes out about his latest legal turmoil. a new york judge ordering him to pay nearly $355 million in a civil fraud case. >> there were no victims, no defaults, no damages, no

complaints, no nothing. >> with days to go until the next gop contest, his lone oboe netany nent seeks an opening. >> that's not a way you win. >> foreign aid sparks debate on the campaign trail. >> you have congress saying, do we support ukraine and israel? or do we support the border? that's a false premise. we can do both. >> we will hear from both of south carolina's republican senators, tim scott and lindsey graham about their recent trip to the u.s.-mexico border and how the death of putin critic alexei navalny will impact it all. jim clyburn was key to biden's win. we will hear whether he has any concerns about president biden's re-election. finally, on this presidents' day weekend, a discussion on leadership, character, and

american values. it's all just ahead on "face the nation." ♪ good morning. welcome to "face the nation." margaret is on today. congress is on a two-week recess. but there is an urgent push among some lawmakers to do more to fund ukraine. this weekend, another major ukrainian city fell to russian forces. at an annual security conference in munich, president zelenskyy pleaded for more help from the u.s. and from allies around the world. >> do not ask ukraine when the war will end. ask yourself why is putin still able to continue it. >> the path forward for more u.s. aid remains uncertain.

last week, the senate passed a $95 billion foreign aid bill that included money for ukraine, israel and more. but the gop controlled house is not expected to take up that measure. south carolina senator lindsey graham who opposed the legislation joins us now from clemson, south carolina. senator, good morning. at this point, do you expect any new u.s. assistance for ukraine from congress? >> yes, i do. i feel very optimistic after having been on the phone all weekend talking with my house colleagues that there's a way forward regarding the border and you ukraine. the problem solvers caucus, fitzpatrick and gottenlheimer have a creative idea. let's go back to remaining mexico as a border security

policy, and that was the number one request of the border patrol on our visit to texas. go back to remain in mexico, you have to wait for your asylum claim. you are not released in the united states. secondly, to reinstitute title 42. those two things on the border i think are simple, will work. they want to slim down the aid package to $60 billion, all lethal aid. i suggested making the lethal aid a loan. the europeans gave ukraine $50 billion. i think if you turn the lethal aid into a loan, do remain in mexico, title 42, that combination not only gets through the house, it picks up votes in the senate. it would be welcome relief to ukraine, a brelow to putin and

will help israel and taiwan. >> you stunned many colleagues and u.s. allies around the world when you opposed this recent -- >> yeah, i did. >> with opposing this legislation. now it seems you are prepared to support this emerging house legislation from some of the centrist republicans and democrats. this is a $66 billion package that goes across airisrael, ukre and border security. are you saying that you are a yes vote on the fitzpatrick house proposal? >> yes. i'm saying the house proposal -- depends how it's written -- makes perfect sense to me. i think you will pick up six to eight republicans who want to help ukraine but believe the bipartisan border bill was not sufficient enough. why did i vote no? i want to help ourself biz se -- ourselves by securing our border. the border provisions were not adequate. >> understood.

>> remain in mexico. put that in the package, you slim down the package to lethal aid. i don't -- i would support humanitarian aid, smaller in number, if it was a loan. again, the europeans have made 33 of their $50 billion transfer to ukraine a loan. let's make it a loan. i think that gets you -- president trump on the aid part. let's go to remain in mexico, we have a package at work. as to what happened in russian with navalny. navalny was one of the bravest people i ever met. he had to know he was going to be killed by putin. he was murdered by putin. why don't we do this? i got off the phone with two democratic senators. let's make russia a state sponsor of terrorism. let's make them pay a price.

the designation is a game changer. it would allow more sanctions. it would open up the american courtroom. >> do you expect legislation on that this week? >> yes, absolutely. president biden told putin, if something happens to navalny, you will pay a price. the price is to make russia a state sponsor of terrorism like iran, cuba and north korea. they deserve this. putin has been killing people, opposition leaders for decades. he dismembered syria. he is one of the worst actors. he is an indicted war criminal. >> i want to come back to what you said about this news you made that you are supporting house legislation on ukraine funding after opposing the senate legislation. you said you think you can get former president trump to buy in on some components. that's a big guess. have you spoken to former president trump about your new support for this house bill, and are you confident you can

convince him to not try to kill what fitzpatrick is putting forward? >> good question. i have not spoken to president trump about this package. i spoke to president trump earlier in the week about making the aid to ukraine a loan. this was his idea, not mine. we did it for britain. ukraine has minerals, resources. israel has a strong economy. they have been hurt badly by october 7th. taiwan is a rich nation. why don't we do this, make a favorable loan to all three of these allies, let them pass back when they can, if they can? that's the trump idea. if you embrace that, i think you would get a lot of votes in the house and senate. president trump says, let's wait on the border. we cannot wait. it's a national security nightmare. a 2,000% increase in people on

the terrorist watch list coming across in two years. 5 billion people could be killed by the amount of fentanyl coming across our southern border. the largest loss of life of young people in america is fentanyl poisoning coming across the southern border. i don't want to wait. i want to act now on the border. i want to turn the aid package into a loan that makes perfect sense to me. i think the bipartisan problem solvers group has an idea that will sell. if you are putin, i want you to know, we're not going to pull the plug on ukraine. we're going to come after you. we're going to make your country a state sponsor of terrorism. you will pay a price for murdering this brave man. >> putin's watching what's happening in congress. he must wonder, where is the republican party these days? former president trump has invited by president zelenskyy to come to the front lines. should he do that? do you have any concerns, senator graham, with how former president trump has spoken about nato allies and how he has said,

if they are delinquent on payments, russia can do what thy want, is that appropriate? >> i think what's appropriate is for everybody to meet the obligation of 2%. they threatened to withdraw 30,000 troops a year from nato if they didn't make a 3% number in the '80s. here is what i think. they should pay up. 19 of 31 nations do not contribute 2%. i want to have a system where if you don't pay, you get kicked out. i'm not inviting russia to invade ukraine. president trump is right to want nato nations to meet their obligation of 2%. we need to turn it into an obligation that means something. i'm a big fan of nato. but there are 70, $80 billion on the table. if you are in nato, pay 2%. >> final thing here, senator gr graham.

you are on the senate judiciary committee. do you plan to push to have hur testify before your committee? >> we will leave that up to senator durbin. i have ideas about that. i want to end , thank you for having me on the show. i see a path forward for ukraine, taiwan and israel. i see a way to secure our border. let's make russia a state sponsor of terrorism. this can happen in the next 30 days. it would be a game changer for the world. we will see what happens. >> the talks seemed dead. now they seem alive. senator lindsey graham of south carolina, thank you. >> thank you. we turn now to south carolina's other republican senator, senator tim scott. he joins us this morning from his home state. thanks for being here. former president donald trump has spent a lot of time in the courtroom in recent days. his opponent nikki haley says that's a burden potentially for

republicans nationwide to have a sta standardbearer in the courtroom. does she have a point? >> she does not. here is what we know. this has only exposed a justice system that many americans fear. you have a justice system that hunts republicans while protecting democrats. one of the most compelling pieces of evidence toward this fact is special counsel hur's report that said that without any question, joe biden mishandled classified, sensitive material. at the same time, you have courts actually targeting and running after republicans. not just, however, the former president. pro-life activists, folks at school board meetings referred to as domestic terrorists. it's being exposed. >> you talk about the justice department being weaponized.

that's a claim made without evidence here that it's being weaponized. you have to have intent when it comes to making that claim. >> special counsel hur's report is clear. he is too old. his memory faulty, which makes him sympathetic for a jury so they're not moving forward with charges. the report is clear that they mishandled -- he mishandled classified material. that report is -- >> there was no -- >> i think we can -- >> the characterizations have been contested. there was no charge included in the report. when it comes to former president trump, do you believe the rnc, the republican national committee, should be involved in paying his legal expenses, which are mounting? >> i can only tell you without any question, when you look at the two-tiered justice system we have, that i reinforced, i think it's important to note that without any question, the

american people are very concerned about how that would impact their lives. their issues are clear, by the way. the american people are more focused on their future than donald trump's past. what they are more focused on is making sure that our southern border is secure. we are looking at almost 10 million illegal crossings by the election. the american people aren't asking the questions about legal challenges. the american people are asking questions about economic challenges. they are not talking about legal challenges. they are talking about their challenges across a kitchen table. >> you were in eagle pass with senator graham on friday focused on border security. you are being mentioned as someone who is a possible vice presidential contender for donald trump. should you become vice president, whether it's this time or in the future, an important question is, how do you specifically see the role of vice president on the day of

congressional certification? what do you believe, senator, is the role of a vice president on the day of congressional certification? >> here is what i'm not going to do is answer questions that are hypothetical about the past. one thing we know about the future is that the former president, he will be successful in 2024. he won't be facing that situation again. >> i'm not asking you a hypothetical question. i'm asking a constitutional question. how do you see the role of vice president in terms of the congressional certification? >> the constitution is clear. >> you stand by your decision? >> of course i do. there's not a question we're going to ask and have answered about the past. i'm not changing my position. >> let's move on to politics. nikki haley has been tough. she has been a long time ally of yours, not so much anymore. her adult son referred to you as judas for endorsing former president donald trump. what's your response ?

>> here is what i would say. politics makes people and their families desperate. it's unfortunate for a person with a high caliber of an individual that she has been to stoop down to having her and her family refer to me or anyone else as judas or any other name calling. it's not about me, frankly. it's about the american people. i hope that they get back to focusing on the underlying issues. until then -- >> speaking of that, senator, should former president trump -- >> i will be forgiven in that process. >> final thing, speaking of name calling, you say focus on the issues. should former president trump stop calling ambassador haley bird brain? >> her son should stop calling me judas. there's lots of things we can talk about. keep our focus on the american people and why it's so important

for us to -- as elected officials to focus on their issues. one of the reasons why president trump is leading so significantly in the polls, one of the reasons why he actually won more women in new hampshire in the poll -- in the results of the election than nikki haley did was because he was focusing on law and order and securing our southern border and safety in our streets, improving our economy. these are the issues we should focus on. the comments can do damage. >> tim scott of south carolina, we appreciate your time. "face the nation" will be back in one minute. stay with us. could be a sign that your digestive system isn't at its best. but a little metamucil everyday can help. metamucil's psyllium fiber gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down and also helps lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels.

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are joined by rikki kleeman. president trump is expected to appeal. what do you expect next? how is he going to pay? >> let's look at if he has a good appeal. i think that many legal experts would agree that he does. for two reasons. number one, this is a statute out of the state of new york that was design ed against frau by consumer protection fraud, people who did not have sophistication in the marketplace, people who could be taken advantage of by a scam. here, the president's lawyers have persisted in saying that there was no victim here, the banks were repaid, they were never late with a payment. the banks were happy to do business with them. the banks could do due diligence. the banks went away happy. the banks were satisfied. they have challenged this law

from the very beginning. an appellant court might want to look at it, because it's a way of putting an industry or a company out of business. secondly, donald trump and his lawyers will look for a reduction in the amount of the penalty. the penalty is astronomical. when you look at how you go forward with an appeal, what you have to do is within 30 days either post the amount of the penalty up with interest, so it's 120% of the penalty. and we are really talking about something like $450 million to post. if you can't do that in cash, you are going to have to find assets that will be collateral. this is a mighty task for financial advisers, dealing with donald trump and the organization, to get the money or the bond for that appeal.

if the appeal can't be docketed because of the money, the money is going to have to be paid. >> this is one of several challenges facing former president trump just in new york. starting next month, on march 25th, he has a hush money payment criminal trial in manhattan. what are your thoughts on how that's going to play out in march, april and may? >> we have to remember is that this is the first case against a former president. that makes it of historical significance and importance. you are going to have a judge who is strict. there's not going to be any fooling around. it's going to go forward with all deliberate speed. there are people who perhaps would have preferred, on a nationally significant level, that the january 6 case went first or the mar-a-lago

documents case. but this is a criminal case. it's multiple counts of falsification of business records to commit or conceal a crime. according to the d.a., that crime had to do with tax purposes, had to do with federal election law and state election law. there is nothing here about this case to make it seem like it shouldn't be done. it will be done. if there's a conviction, these counts have a four-year prison term maximum. >> you can serve -- you can run for president and serve as president if you are convicted of a crime in our system, correct? >> not only can you run and serve, you will find as you well know that here in the life of donald trump, the political and the legal collide. that's certainly the fraud case. donald trump will use that in order to say that there are

people who have exceeded their authority, like the attorney general of new york. then he looks at the new york case. he will be able to campaign the district attorny has exceeded his authority by going forward with these kinds of cases. it plays into the political reality at a very important time on the political calendar. >> rikki, in fulton county, georgia, in recent days, willis took the stand. do you expect her to be dismissed or disqualified from the georgia election interference case? >> well, it was a salacious couple of days on television watching a camera in the courtroom, to hear about the personal intimate relationship of district attorney willis and the special prosecutor that she hired who was her lover for a period of time. the salaciousness of this and the fact that she decided to

testify when she was angry leads us to a point that it can probably hurt her credibility. the case will not be dismissed. i doubt she will be disqualified. ultimately, although she wins the motion, i would say that it could be said politically that the case then legally really becomes a loser. >> we will leave it there. thank you so much. we will be right back with more "face the nation." stay with us. first treatment. discover a diffet immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, it works differently. it helps your immune system fight cancer in 2 different ways. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment. these problems can be severe and lead to death.

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