welcome back to "face the nation." we continue our conversation with senate intelligence committee chairman mark warner and vice chair marco rubio. >> if i could. >> against it. >> you're consistent in that.

>> the biden campaign joined tiktok. >> that sent a pretty darn mixed message because the biden administration supported my earlier bipartisan legislation that we would lead to a path of potentially banning tiktok because i believe that tiktok, both controlled by the chinese communist property, collects data and, as a news source, literally laugh of young people in america get a lot of their news from tiktok. >> 170 million americans are on it. >> if you don't think the chinese communist party can twist that algorithm to make it the news they see reflective of their views, then i don't think you appreciate the nature of the threat. would the united states ever allow china to buy cbs? i don't think they would. and we might have slightly different ways on how we go at this. >> the danger of tiktok is not

somebody goes on the video and puts something up that looks stupid or silly. its value it has a algorithm, a recommender engine one of the best in the world. that is owned by byte dance. under chinese law byte dance must own it. the only way that works is if they have access to the data. doesn't matter who you sell to. doesn't matter where they store the data. the -- as long as byte dance engineers in china have access to the data and control the algorithm they have to have access to american data to make it work. we need to confront. that's the reality here. >> you like this house bill? >> i think there's a lot of creativity on tiktok, and i think if they had to discourage, as long as the algorithm moved -- if this was a brazilian or french or canadian company it wouldn't cause me near the consternation. >> i haven't read it in detail yet. what we have to focus on who owns the algorithm. whoever owns the algorithm will have access to the data. >> and manipulating that

algorithm can mean what kind of information you're going to see. if you don't think that could be used as the most powerful propaganda tool ever, then i don't think you appreciate -- >> in an election year. >> you don't get the threat. >> you, senator warner, said last month we are less prepared for foreign interference in 2024 than we were in 2020. what exactly are you concerned about? >> we have nation states, china, iran, russia, who know that interfering in our elections is both effective and cheap. we have a lot more americans who have for a variety of reasons less trust in any of our institutions including our voting system. we have a court case that was in the fifth circuit that restricted the voluntary communication between social media and the fbi and that cauldron of change going on and throw in artificial intelligence tools that can bring deep fakes or voices or other manipulation at a speed and scale that's

unprecedented -- >> it's the area of maligned influence. what are the issues that divide americans, amplify messages that makes their politics even more conflicktive. we do a pretty good job on our own. that just doesn't deal with elections. we're beyond election interference. it's an effort to influence our policy debates and divide us year-round. russia does it and done it for a long time. the chinese want to get into this business, iranians and others will is join them. we've seen examples in other democratic nations. it's a growing risk and i think one of the first thing you have to do is talk about it so people understand what we're trying to describe. it's not hacking ballot boxes. it's the minds and political debate by exacerbating preexisting tensions to the point of boiling over. >> is not clear how people are supposed to protect themselves. >> sometimes these messages driven or things people are putting up online are not real

or a video that happened halfway around the world ten years ago not down the street one month ago. they are things designed to get people angry. the algorithms feed this. people love content that shows outrageous and more will view it and easy to push this. people are out there voting and at each other's throats over something that may not be real. >> this is the biggest risk for election night? >> huge risk. we have a job to do and i hope others will advance this as well. 20 tech companies said in an agreement in munich they would try to put watermarking that would indicate if content has been altered or deep fake. >> is that sufficient? >> they said they will take it down. it's voluntary. we need to keep the pressure on. frankly, i think the administration needs to lean in more and i think we need to do a better job and i think people are potentially more aware even four years ago under president trump with these new tools like deep fakes, don't believe everything you see and hear.

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sfx: bubblewrap bubble popped sound. we turn to the house democratic leader hakeem jeffries who joins us from brooklyn, new york. welcome back. >> great to be with you. >> our latest cbs polling shows donald trump with a four-point lead over joe biden, and mr. biden has not consolidated his base democratic voters, specifically among black voters, biden is ahead of trump, 76 to 23, but that core democratic group that he won with about 90% back in 2020 is showing just it seems like a lack of enthusiasm. how does president biden fix it? >> polling has been all over the place but i'm confident that at the end of the day in november the overwhelming majority of african americans, caribbean americans, black voters throughout the country, will

support president biden, understand that he has delivered over and over and over again on issues of concern, whether that's the lowest rate of black unemployment in decades, whether that's historic investment in historically black colleges and universities, making sure that he has been supportive, incredibly so, of small business creation and entrepreneurship in the black community, building upon the efforts that had been previously done by president barack obama, and joe biden has a vision for the future of an inclusive economy that grows the middle class and ensures things like home ownership within the african american community can continue to grow. >> well, we heard a bit of that vision in the state of the union address, but we don't often hear from the president on many of these things. al sharpton was quoted in "the washington post" saying the campaign needs to do more to draw comparison between, quote, two old white guys, spend more money on ads and the record you laid out. is that it? what is it that is making people

not have this enthusiasm? >> well, i travel throughout the country and spend time, of course, in the district that i represent here in brooklyn, and there is a high degree of enthusiasm for president joe biden, and it is growing. president joe biden had an incredible state of the state of the union address. he was strong, he was serious, and he was substantive and drew a clear contrast between his vision of moving america forward in an enlightened way inclusive of everyone and the contrast with the extreme maga republicans who want to turn back the clock on reproductive freedom, turn back the clock on voting rights, turn back the clock by ending social security and medicare as we know it. >> they would say they don't. >> president biden is on the right side of those issues for the american people. >> on the issue of the border, our polling shows by more than 5

to 1 voters say biden's policies will increase the number of migrants attempting to cross versus trump policies. that's an impression. i know in the state of new york you recently had a race in new york 3, the victory of tom souzzi, and he campaigned on tougher border positions, specifically said he was comfortable describing this as an invasion. i wonder if you endorse that language and would encourage democrats to adopt it? >> tom souzzi ran a great campaign. he communicated with voters. he talked about common sense solutions to meeting the challenges that are facing the american people. we believe, as democrats, that we have a broken immigration system and that we need to address the clear challenges at the border. president biden has repeatedly made that clear. entered into negotiations with republicans who decided to

detonate their own border policy bill because they were ordered to do so by donald trump. who is more interested in playing political games than solving the challenges at the border. tom souzzi leaned in to the fact that he supported the bipartisan bill that was being negotiated in the senate. >> right. >> and that republicans are the ones who walked away from it. that is what was decisive in that campaign. >> it wasn't just process. he used that word, invasion. he used much stronger language. do democrats need to campaign in a -- with a stronger message specifically on immigration and you know the flow of migrants is only expected to pick up in the coming months. this isn't going away as a campaign issue. >> invasion is not a word i would ever use. i'm not sure whether he used that word or not or in what context. i know what tom souzzi said he believes that we are a nation of

immigrants, of course, through his own experience, his grandfather coming over from italy. at the same period of time, we need to also deal with the challenges that we confront at the border anchored in the notion that we also are a nation based on the rule of law. and we can and should do both. >> okay. dreamers are not in the senate bill and as you know the speaker in the house said it would be dead on arrival even if it were to pass the senate. moving to another issue that seems also stuck in congress right now, aid to ukraine. it runs out ammunition in the month of april according to the ukrainian government. you want to get the $95 billion package, i know, from the senate through the house. there's no date to do that. speaker johnson has not committed too to do that. do you need an alternative, can you promise joe biden that you

can deliver on it? >> we don't need an alternative when you have a comprehensive bipartisan national security bill that has come over from the senate and all we need is an up or down vote in the house of representatives, and everyone in washington knows that it will secure at least 300 votes if not more so we can meet the needs of america's national security. >> there's no date to do that. >> support our democratic allies in ukraine and israel, humanitarian assistance to palestinian civilians in harm's way, support our allies in the indo-pacific. that's a question for mike johnson, when he knows that the house has the votes to act on america's national security interests. the reason it's not happening is because there's a pro-putin faction in the republican party led by donald trump and tucker carlson who are blocking this legislation and that's shameful. >> will you protect speaker

johnson from a motion to vacate if he takes that vote? will you prevent him from being ousted? >> we haven't had that conversation as a caucus, but i have made the observation that i believe there are a reasonable number of members, if the speaker were to do the right thing, that don't believe he should fall as a result of it. >> that sounds like a yes. all right. leader, thank you for your time this morning. and "face the nation" will be right back.

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we're joined now by the vice chairman of ibm gary cohn who served as former president trump's top economic adviser in the white house. welcome back. >> great to be here. >> i want to talk to you about a few things with the economy but also what president biden took aim at in terms of taxes. you were the architect of the tax policy. tax rates for most americans could go up as soon as december of 2025 because that's just an expiration date unless congress acts. secretary yellen said if biden wins re-election he will seek tax cut extensions only for people earning less than $400,000 a year. what do you think of that plan?

>> let me explain. when we redid taxes in 2017 the personal side of the tax coat code expires december 2025. as of january 2026 we revert back to the complicated tax code we had in 2017. so people have to remember that. it was extremely complicated. you bring in all these things as personal deductions, now bring in s.a.l.t. deductions. >> state and local taxes. >> we raised rates, but you bring in all the loopholes we got rid of. what we tried to do when we wrote taxes we tried to simplify it and get rid of the loopholes the wealthy people in america use. that was a way that we tried to make the tax code fair and the data shows that we've made the tax code fair. if you look at who pays taxes in this country the bottom 50% of earners in the united states pay 2.3% of tax collected and the top 10% pays over 70% of tax

collected in this country. >> sounds like the opposite of what president biden described in the state of the union because he took aim at billionaires who said they pay a lower tax rate than teachers and proposed minimum taxes of 25% on billionaires. how do you respond? >> i think you've got to take one little step back here. a billionaire is a measure of net worth. it's not a description of their taxable income. you could be a billionaire and have no taxable income. you cannot have a billion dollars and have a high taxable income. when you -- >> you're just sitting on assets. >> sitting on assets illiquid or liquid assets. we do a good job in this country of taxing income. that's what the constitution talks about. the constitution talks about taxing your income. there is no income in this country unless you buy a tax-free bond that doesn't get taxed at a minimum of 20%. whether it's interest or dividends or capital gains. there's no billionaire in this

country that has income that is not paying at least 20%. >> but the president is tapping in to at least a perception that wealthy people have far more of an advantage and that corporations are taking advantage of the little guy. he went down to the 10% fewer snickers in the bag annualsy sagy saying you're getting ripped off. what do you make of that idea and explanation he's trying to make for why people are experiencing inflation even though the rate is coming down? >> let's talk about inflation because i think the important concept for everyone to understand, inflation has a compounding effect. meaning as you look at inflation year over year you're adding up those numbers. you're not starting at a zero every year. if we had 6% last year, 7% and now 4%, that's 10% inflation. so if you take a basket of groceries at the beginning of

2020, a simple basic basket that costs $100 it costs over $125 today because those 4% one year and 7% one year and 7% the next year, they add up. they're cumulative. there's a huge cumulative. >> when people are told consumers you're wrong inflation -- no, they're right. >> they're completely right and what they're more right about is we at least finally have gotten to the position where wage growth is faster than inflation. but we had not been there until the last few months. people were losing purchasing power and that's why people are angry and then take on top of that the high interest rate environment where if you thought you might have been in a position to buy a house because you saved money, you go out to get a mortgage at 7 or 8% you can't afford a house. people got very frustrated because the costs of their every day lives got expensive and investing in their future buying a home got nearly impossible. >> so president -- former

president trump is campaigning, talking a lot about the frustration consumers have and i want to ask you about this idea he's floating of tariffs. tariffs as much as 60% on china. last night he outlined these plans. >> china or any other country that makes us pay a tariff or tax, let's say 100 or 200%, we will make them pay a reciprocal tariff of 100 or 200% right back. it's called you screw us, we screw you, and everybody is happy. >> you've said on this program in the past trump's tariffs in the last administration hurt consumers. will this hurt consumers. >> remember what a tariff is. a tariff is a tax the importer pays at the border of the united states. that tariff then gets passed on to consumers here in the united states. it is a consumption tax. now look, i want to refine that a little bit. if we manufactured those

products in the united states, and were using a tariff to protect our manufacturers because china can produce cheaper, because they don't pay fair wages, they don't have health care, they don't have to have a return on capital, i'm okay with the president or the president nominee or whoever it is putting a tariff on. if we're putting tariffs on things we do not manufacture in this country and everyday citizens need to consume those products that is highly inflationary and it will really have a dramatic impact on our economy. >> so when he talked about tariffs on mexico or other countries you're saying that's going to cost consumers more at the end of the day? >> if you're buying something a baby strollr or formula and it's x today and now x plus 60% at the border you are paying that as the consumer. no one is absorbing those tariffs except for the ultimate consumer. and if you have to buy those goods you're going to have an inflationary impact on the

economy. >> so in terms of what you are thinking as someone from the business community going into this election, the presumption that business community will be with trump. do you have any misgivings about him and his plans given what he has done, including bringing autocrats to mar-a-lago as he did with viktor orban this week? >> the business community is still open minded. the business community wants to hear the policies. there is a lot of big policies out here. we touched on taxes. what's going to happen with taxes by the end of '25, where will we be? that's important. energy policy. very important to business. business consumes a lot of energy. we haven't talked on ai. ai is a huge consumer of electricity. it's going to change our demand profile dramatically in this country. the southern border, what will go on? legal immigration. we need skilled labor in this country and bring in 2 million skilled laborers in this country. the business community will look at those topics and the platforms of the candidates and

that's going to have a huge impact on how they vote. >> you're saying it's still open? you would be open to voting for either joe biden or donald trump at this point? >> i think based on those policies, that's going to influence the corporate community because those are the factors that really impact how they can run their businesses. look, i can throw regulation on there, the ability to merge, the ability to consolidate, ability to buy back stock, all those things have dramatic impact on the corporate community and how they look at the campaigns. >> so president biden in his state of the union said wall street didn't build america, unions built america, but ad libs, but they're not bad guys. you're not a bad guy according to joe biden. >> i appreciate that. >> but in the rhetoric alone does there need to be outreach? you're saying it's going to come down to the dollars and cents of it? >> there has to be outreach. there has to be outreach. the current administration is an administration that is standing in the way of business and business growing and business is trying to grow jobs. business wants to invest capital

in this country. one of the other things we did in the 2017 tax plan is we made companies repatriate their offshore earnings. companies want to reinvest that capital in the united states, but they want to make sure they can reinvest it in a sound way to give their shareholders a return. when they invest capital it creates jobs. they want to make sure the regulatory environment makes sense to invest capital. >> thank you for coming in. we have to leave it there. >> thank you for having me. >> we'll be back in a moment. [dog whimpers] [thinking] why always the couch? does he need to go to puppy school? get his little puppy diploma? how much have i been spending on this little guy? when your questions about life turn into questions about money... there's erica. the virtual financial assistant to help you spend, save, and plan smarter. only from bank of america.

that's it for us today. thank you for watching. until next week, for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan.

bounced from one doctor to the next. did they even send my lab work...? wait, was i supposed to bring that? then there's the forms. the bills. the 'not a bills.' the.... ”press 4 to repeat these options.” [chaotic music] [inspirational music] healthcare can get a whole lot easier when your medical records, care and coverage are in one place. at kaiser permanente, all of us work together for all that is you.

this is the "cbs overnight news." we begin tonight with a sharp escalation in the public rift between president biden and israeli prime minister benn