hello, and on behalf of the archdiocese of san francisco, welcome to mosaic . easter is a feast that many

people enjoy whether they observe it in a religious way or not. we have easter eggs, candies, parades, bonnets, parades, and at easter spring has sprung, the world is green and of course, at the heart of easter is a deep and dark drama, first the condemnation of jesus of nazareth and then the resurrection from the dead. these are central christian teachings and have been so from the beginning, but what are we to think of the resurrection? why do we believe in it? is it difficult to come to that belief and what is it like to live in that belief? here with us to discuss the recognition -- resurrection is a teacher, scholar and priest, after this brief break join us to delve more deeply into the resurrection of christ.

hello, and welcome to mosaic. with me his father john , thank you for joining us. and you have a fantastic resume, you have more abbreviations after your name than many people. not only a publicist, that is to say scholar of the bible but also

a physicist and experimental scientist. so a ba in physics, m.a. in biblical studies of the theological union and sacred theology from that university in room and it doctorate from the same institution. and you began, with a ba in physics and worked in the semi conductor industry in palo alto. and i think there was a time that you experience the conversion to catholicism. >> it started last year at berkeley and there was an idea toward applied physics. working with semi conductors. so i had statistic classes and so on, the interpretation of data and i went on this one

hitchhiking trip, and i had been raised catholic and just drifted off, so six years later i went out hitchhiking like we did for recreation. three people on that brief hitchhiking trip all talk to me about jesus christ. and if you believe, you know and like the force, you know , i thought in my mind, this is statistically significant. nobody in six years and then in 24 hours, three . i thought i better go back over this. there may be something in this. so i went back and started reading the bible and looked for this first person that was talked about, john the apostle. he was talking about the apocalypse but then i didn't connect it until i started

reading the gospel. it started with kind of a poetic introduction. and i thought, it's just like the eastern poetry i've been reading. i just got absorbed into the story and this drew me into this person of christ that i never really encountered before. so that again carried through into graduation and then i came to conviction. this is a person unique in human history. >> so in relation with jesus and also the church, he went back to the catholic liturgy? >> after about three or four months of reading the bible i just felt god say, go back to church and i said, which one? and he brought me back to remember the exact morning i

left the sacred heart parish, i just looked around and said, i'm not experiencing god here, and he said, remember what you said? and i said , yeah, i have a very good memory. i said, okay, and went to the nearest church. >> and it drew you back into not only practicing catholicism and reading the bible but apparently to the vocation to the priest. >> it was some years down. ironically when they say scientists are very slow to believe in god i was in the research lab in palo alto and we had 60 employees in the research department and there were two bible studies weekly and apparently there had been a young man before me that became a catholic priest and three of my friends became full-time christian missionaries. it was a hotbed for christian ministry.

>> and these gentlemen are all out of the semiconductor industry ? >> yes. >> so you found your way into religion and priesthood. your priesthood seems to be a scholarly one and pastoral, can you tell us what you do? >> at the prison i work at the sonoma state newman center and also working in teaching in the seminary. i teach a course on the gospels, john, matthew and luke. >> the newman center is a catholic chaplaincy at sonoma state university. so you are acquainted with the ancient text, and acquainted with today's young people and have we've got you here to talk

about the resurrection. was it a key part of your renewed interest in catholicism at the time? before that it was the passion of christ, the sufferings and the event of his dying in the way that he went through that. there was a major impact that came when i was reading the gospel of john and came to the way of the cross, when he had his cross, john says, taking his own cross, he went out there. and i saw this a few of christ just bloody with a crown of thorns and i looked on his face and just saw this serene, totally decisive face expression that he didn't care what was happening around him, he wasn't worried, upset, afraid

or angry, he just was determined to get to the place of his death. and i thought, this is divine. no man could live like that and just move full forward to some death. i just thought, this is god, and it made that impact. >> that was the picture of the passion and the suffering, something we all will experience is our death and he tasted like a man and as you say, a god. the next question is the resurrection. after this brief break please rejoin us and we will talk about the resurrection of jesus of nazareth.

welcome back. we are

talking with father john about the resurrection of christ. a teaching that is essential to the catholic faith and i believe it always has been from the very beginning from the writing of the catholic doctrines. i beli corinthians, says, if jesus did not rise from the dead, our faith is in vain, it is a lie, not true. so we need to believe that this is a historical fact that jesus did rise from the dead. what can you tell us about that? >> there are numerous angles to approach the question. one of them is the physical evidence of the passion itself to show that he did die and the resurrection. obviously for the fact that we have an empty tomb, we believe that the body was risen and made spiritual and also corporal. at the same time, on earth while we can't

point to the body and sense of his bones and what remains, in a sense for catholics that is already evidence. for all the saints, we have some piece of their body. relics. so the fact that we don't have relics for jesus, that says something already. if it were all production or fantasy or invention, there would have been relics. but more seriously if we look at the shroud, for example, it has been a tense focus of study from all kinds of angles, scientific, over the last few decades. the results of that are extremely intriguing, if not convincing. for a number of people on the team it was convincing enough to convert to the catholic faith. there are

so many powerful signs that point in pretty much the same direction and strong directions that seem to point otherwise. carvings were dated back , so there is conflicting evidence but the scientific approach is to look at all the evidence and include it in any viable theory. you can't just say, we won't pay attention to that, a scientist has to deal with all the relative data and come up with a theory that explains all of it or it is not a confirmed theory. so far it hasn't happened to explain all the data convincingly. which, to me, that is the state of science, it is a beautiful thing, the intrigue and give people passion about an argument and work it out.

that's what's happening. >> and there are philosophical questions, sort of a combination of things. one hears that it was a myth that was invented later, but this teaching was very clear from the beginning of christianity. >> if you look at early sources like luke, and the apostles and describing first the gospel and then the acts, he is describing the events that unfolded describing territories, a pretty bona fide historical narrative. for the times, that people take seriously, obviously with a spin, but so many take it seriously and not as a novel. the other genre of all the other gospels like thomas , and all that, came in the second century where that was that genre around that it did

multiplied, and some of the very early like 36 a.d., that is the historical point of luke's focus and 1 corinthians, 52, early stuff. >> so paul's was in the 50s and 60s and luke was at the same time. so witnesses are still around. and i read this objection that it was a conspiracy of the early followers to do what, persuade the world? >> what it shifts to, is it credible that there was a group of people among the most intense of the commandment, would they all decide to bear false witness together ? of course that is possible but i don't think it is a credible argument. they had a very strict level of ethics which says, don't tell lies or even half-truths. the martyrs who

did die presenting the truth could easily have gone out by simply being quiet in the face of contrary statements but they felt the need to say the truth and be killed for it. so there is that kind of apologetic force that is credible. >> i think that is an accurate recounting of early history. yes, no one recanted jesus' resurrection. and there is also , i think, literary , after the resurrection there is a pretty healthy post resurrection narrative about what jesus did. he was present to his friends so they recount his works and appearances at the time and account their own weakness and doubt. literarily it is very impressive to me. scripturally, i am no expert,

so you tell me if that springs true? >> definitely. there is a basis that people were also included in self-criticism, sometimes it is really bad and peter is like , no, keep it in there. >> one thing i read was at the first witnesses of the resurrection were women and women had social standings that didn't allow there were to be taken too seriously. am i right? >> yes >> let's take another brief break and then return and talk about the resurrection.

- it's so fun to watch jessica in this space. - this is a look at those clouds right now in real-time,

but let's head underneath this cloud layer and take a look at our rainfall... - [narrator] the virtual view studio, part of "morning edition." weekday mornings starting at 5 on kpix. welcome back. we are talking with father john about the resurrection of jesus of nazareth. a fascinating historical discussion for many angles. i think we established that it has been christian doctrine from the beginning. there are differences to debunk or resist, but what do we get from it, what is important about it and why does it have a central place in our religious life? >> good question. one thing is that since it is a tangible reality, first, they see jesus has risen and think he is a

ghost and get panicked. jesus says, calm down, got anything to eat? he eats a piece of fish and then like , ghosts don't do that, we must be okay. something tangible, they hand him a piece of fish, they touched it and he ate it. it demonstrates human bodily presence and that is important. the body is focused in a way that we have passions. they were afraid, you see emotion, passion, fear, joy , amazement, coming out in a way that throughout the bible it is not really there, that emotional intensity. >> if god became man and took on human form and he suffers a human death, but overcomes it

in this way. in a way that i strictly find unimaginable. i can imagine what his reason body was, is that settled in the church doctrine? >> it is mysterious. the qualities , he can go through walls but yet is a tangible body. it wouldn't fit the normal death, the rules, for how he can do what he is doing. >> it is a display of god's power, but displayed rather modestly. he comes, goes, knows that his followers will talk to him. >> like he did during his life, he didn't apparently kill anyone or work miracles after the resurrection. it was just being with his disciples, knowing that he was really there and alive >> you played christ in a passion play in lake county.

interesting angle to try to embody . >> it was a great privilege and an amazing experience. i had just come back from a pilgrimage in israel. i was there for five weeks, just living, walking and sleeping where jesus walked and slept and then i went into the passion play in germany. and i have been asked to be jesus in the lake county passion play. in the open there are about 200 members in the cast, people on horseback, blocks of goats, it is big. and in that play, just that amazing inside view of christ with his sufferings and carrying of the crossed i insisted on making a full-size, fully solid four by 12 cross, 110 pounds. i

didn't have to fake it, it was really heavy. and with that experience of the sufferings and the grace of the resurrection , just seeing the shockwave of awe through the whole audience, it was like, this is the real thing, the impact that the risen christ had and the joy that was there. it started me thinking about the reason, why did he have to come back in that way? it was for that full, convincing human relationship with the body embrace. there is a certain point where i go down to my mom, mary for that second time and we hug. and it's like, this is my son, i know him. it was a beautiful moment, very emotional and affirmative. if you look at the disciples before that, they are scared and hiding and

after they encounter jesus as risen, they are ready to die for him, go to the ends of the world. they have that intense zeal that wasn't had before the bodily presence of christ . they were now so convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt. >> you work with young people, you are a chaplain at a state college, are they interested in this? do they find the resurrection a more difficult doctrine than you might expect? >> i think it is a challenge, he suffered and he died, that is pretty much a historical point, but the risen part, there is a great movement among young people to meditate on it and be in the presence of the blessed sacrament come of the hosts that we consecrate during the mass, it is the

body, mystically so, the body of christ, but we believe that is really him and it is tactile. so that sense of a physical, real presence that also has a spiritual power to it, it is very intriguing for the young adults of today and provides a lot of gusto. >> the youth minister arranges those adoration sessions and a think that it is not only meditative but deeply plummeting to get away from the digital world. father, i want to thank you for being with us. we have a minute left. i'd like to ask you, what are the one or two things viewer should take away from this discussion? >> it is an intriguing mystery and it is worth all that you give it. it is a real question and whether you believe it or not, there is data out there like that empty tomb, and also

what we claim to be is that jesus is with us now and there are physical manifestations of healings, the very same things jesus used to do. and also to realize the passion of that event. it is where there is such a joy and strength to commiserate because we have this joyful sustenance inside. it is a very passionate thing. so let the passion loose and go for it. >> thank you very much. and thank you for joining us on the special easter themed presentation about the resurrection of jesus christ.

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