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mosaic. our host, ron swisher of community united methodists church in fairfield is with us and we thought we would take this opportunity to interview ron. to begin with, what are you see are the top religious stories as you are looking back? >> there are so many of them. but what stood out for me was nelson mandela's death and what he represented. time magazine captured him as being the person who was the protester, prisoner and then the peacemaker. after spending 27 years in prison, we all know about that, but the idea of coming out, i think people expected violence and war and revolution and they got reconciliation. peace and forgiveness , especially those who imprisoned him. i think that is major. when you talk

about forgiveness being so essential to our faith. he is practicing it, i think it is very impactful, not just for the christian church but for the world. he is one great example. >> the number one story of 2013. >> as i look at that and make that assessment, it would be nelson mandela and then pope francis. time magazine chose him as the person of the year because he is in the center of all the major conversations of our time. conversations about wealth and poverty, fairness and justice, transparency and technology, globalization. the nature of marriage, the temptations of power. here is a man that comes along, doesn't have weapons of mass destruction or that kind of power in the sense but he has

power, every time he tweets, the world looks at it. he has that kind of influence. >> and what is your sense, are you optimistic that he will move positively on all those issues? >> i am very hopeful. i think that some of the theology and philosophy will be a challenge, but it seems like he is the kind of person who wants to be engaged and involved and be at the center of addressing that. he sees the church, as he puts the emphasis on poverty, he sees the church out there, dirty, bruised and hurting in the world instead of behind comfortable walls. i think he might be the one who breaks down some of the walls of gender and sexuality and especially class since he puts so much emphasis on the poor. >> the first judgment.

>> and i am crazy about that. i went to the jesuit school. >> who are they? >> they are considered the great educators. they go back hundreds of years. they believe they are the ones who educated people in the faith and a lot of training, takes a long time. after years of schooling and training. i took primarily theology and scripture and i was always impressed. one of the teachers who taught me greek for two years, gave me a recommendation to going to seminary and was going to come to my ordination but he got sick. >> they are rigorous in their training. constituted two quite presbyterian. that is another story. okay, so della and the new pope. what else? >> i would say also you have to

look at gay marriage. even though 16 states approve of it now, and you have gay unions, but the church still resists. some churches like ours, it is almost split around it. we for four years have dealt with the issue of homosexuality. we say it is not compatible with the christian faith, and yet when it comes to justice, i think it is a justice issue, whether we agree with the homosexuality or not. do you allow people to have the same rights as heterosexuals. and some of us in the church are still against that, unfortunately, i think, and we have recently had pastors , their orders were taken from them. one of the bishops, he is under fire because even though he is

retired, he still is talking about, splitting the church in bringing great harm to the church. i think all the dominations, the presbyterians, lutherans and presbyterians, it is still a major issue. >> let's hold for a moment. we will come back and pick up right there. we are with ron swisher, stay with us.

we are talking with ron swisher, the pastor of community united methodist church in fairfield and he is running down the big stories for us at the end of 2013. nelson mandela, the new pope and then we got into this sticky wicket of gay and lesbian rights in the church and how it is impacting various

denominations. the united methodist church, what is the stands, and what are the repercussions? >> the stance is that for years, in our particular conference, we have performed blessings of gay couples and about 10 to 12 years ago they said we cannot even do that. some people have said, no, for 25 or 30 years we have supported gay and we want to continue. but the law in the methodist church voted against it. so any clergy who does do a gay union or marriage because there are marriages now, they are award is taken from them. that has recently happen to the reverend schaefer. >> so you are no longer ordained? >> that is right. you have to surrender your orders and all the rights of doing marriages. he, by the way, did the wedding

for his son. he felt like he could not walk past like the levite, and was determined when he felt compassion for his son and anyone in that regard. it is a justice issue. but the clergy who do it -- >> and he is defrocked and someone in california invites him to come out, that can't happen. as you look into 2014, looking into the protestant denominations, what will happen as it gets pressed more and more in the eyes of the state. >> not just the state, but the supreme court is behind it. so what you do? do you continue to go against that in the rights of people? i think the church might be greatly in trouble, as some people have said. because

we are not going to, it seems like that, been that way. i think we have gotten even more against it in the last four years. we've gone to maybe 70/30. >> in the presbyterian church, what is happening, there are churches that leave the denomination saying we will leave the congregation and we will just form another denomination. do you see more of that trend? >> i think we have lost maybe half a dozen congregations in california and nevada. so probably around 300. that's only california and nevada. i'm sure it has happened in other places. we are part of the united union, so you cannot necessarily take the property. some churches have gone to court. a few have won. we should have a deed to the

property, to make sure that happens. new church owns their property. >> so when you deal with the theology of the justice issue in the practical matter of, you can be endangered if you are clergy person and you support it, that is another big issue. what else? >> i would say also, gun control. we still have, what is it, dirty dozen people die in our country and canada across the country order, with the idea that people kill people. but guns have a tremendous effect. there was a major bill that came up in congress and the senate and all of it, and i think people really wanted some stricter gun control. it is a major issue that people are looking away from. i don't

think the idea of taking people's guns away is the issue, some registration and idea of having a k weapons. the person who submitted the ak just died, from russia. 100 million of those guns are out. he says, i am not responsible for it but the politicians and people are. but it sounds like it is because it will not change anything. >> you have pastored in the inner-city, do you feel that there is a direct impact on the number of availability of unregistered guns and the violence? >> yes. being from oakland, i grew up in alameda but spending 25 to 30 years in oakland, to me it was quite an impact, whether i was in east oakland or west oakland, the violence and the deaths . i think that

they are down this year a little bit in oakland, i can see, but it has been up there, pretty high. >> when we come back we will shift a little bit from the big stories to maybe something we can look forward to in the new year about the human character and rejoice about. stay with us.

we are back with reverend ron swisher. you have outlined for us the big issues, sort of startling, with the pope, the loss of mandela and your concerns about justice rights for gay and lesbian marriages. now onto some happier and later stuff. you have been a pastor for how long? >> 41 in 2014. >> served six churches. >> six churches. >> and the important thing is that you seem pretty optimistic about the situation that can be engaged in pretty optimistic about people >> i think so. gandhi said happiness is what you think, what you say and what you do, when that is in harmony. if we can work on that, not just

being a hero of the work but a doer, so i think there is still hope for people when we can live out some of the things we believe in. one of my favorites is the fruits of the spirit. love, joy, peace, goodness, gentleness, generosity, patience, kindness, self-control. king james version but the most recent translation, it is discipline. without discipline there is no light. robert frost says life is tons of discipline. so if we have some of those fruits, is what i've seen over the years, that is so important in living out our faith. of course the seven deadly sins also emerge with the pride, lust and greed, envy, gluttony and anger and sloth. so hopefully, i think you mentioned earlier about the four virtues. encountering some of that too. courage,

temperance, fortitude . so you -- >> you see your nurturing of a better nature. so, when you look at people in difficult situations, how do you try to encourage that which is positive and optimistic. surely as we go into this new year, we need all the optimism and positive thinking. from a pastor's perspective, what do you cancel is on when we get into difficult restrains and do not see the benefit of generating kindness, mercy and charity when the guy next to you is trying to run you off the road or the bart guy says, your ticket is not good. instead of saying, go in, how do you deal with this? not just

the big things but the small, small, small irritations of light. how do you keep those from overcoming the noble qualities? >> i think all the persons i just referred to, the pope, elsa mandela and gandhi, they would talk about patients, but all of them on the fact that they got angry and upset. they said that nelson mandela did get angry. there is a place for anger, scripture says get angry, but sinnott, go to bed, do not nurture it, do not let the sun go down on it or the devil can get a foothold on your life. i think i have been in ministry over all these years because that is ongoing, never completed or final. i don't think i have ever gotten to the point that i feel like i have arrived and know

everything about ministry and it is all complete. each week that i am in the pulpit i do not know exactly what will happen. i still appreciate you and gail coming for the christmas service. you never know exactly what is transpiring, what will be transformative or will change people's lives. you keep having the patience and i think bible study is essential to part of that. constantly teaching. i think that should happen. >> you moved suddenly from the individual to the valley of a community. from the perspective of the new year, why should people go out and get involved in a religious community? what is the value of it versus the time that it takes or sitting at home watching television or something like that? >> some people compare the church to the ship on a mission

opposed to a cruise ship. the cruise ship, everyone there sort of meets your needs and give you all the food you want. if you are not happy they make sure that happens. some cruise ships have not done well in the last few years. but that is where the focus is. the church is part of a mission that is out there to rescue and transform and have renewal and restoration and resurrection. i think that is what a community can bring, what faith brings to this world and this community. that you have intention about it, it is purposeful. albert thurman says that life is purposeful. there is a tribe within us to have a sense of purpose and it is a determination in us to have life. his expression is life is alive. that is what church can bring, a community that is

alive to some of the issues we have talked about. and having people behind you to address it, not just the individual efforts. >> people behind you to address it. that means, what? >> as we say, sisters and brothers in the faith that have similar beliefs and values. want to see justice prevail. i want to see truth, the kind of truth that sets people free. salvation, the root word is operation, let my people go. i think that is possible when you have some people working to let people go and not just your own individual efforts. >> ron swisher, some thoughts on individual virtues and the church when we come back. we will push him a little bit on how he gets through some difficult stretches. we will be right back.

- lift the clouds off of... - virtual weather, only on kpix and pix+. as we look into 2014, down the road, we have ron swisher who has been sharing with us many things, values and being in the congregation. on break we were chatting about the value of being positive and affirming people. how do you see that in your role in the church? >> we have alluded to it, but i think scripture is very helpful. my favorite scripture is 27 psalms and it says, i believe that i shall see the

goodness of the lord in the land of the living. >> let's say that again. i believe i should see the goodness of the lord in the land of the living. >> it is not just what happens after we are gone but it happens here. that goodness and that joy and that hope, faith and peace. to me, it takes place right here and now. it begins here and now. i think that is the emphasis. everything i do through christ who strengthens me. philippians. it encourages people feel that it is hopeless. no, you have the strength within you. the faith is within you. christ is within you. i try to affirm it in that way. scripture cometh to me, are quite helpful in getting us along the journey. >> you are saying, when you cannot be upbeat and optimistic

all the time, when things bring you down, you say that you turn to the psalms and these are the concept. give us the concept again as we try to get it in her head to go out and live different lee. >> another one, romans 8, nothing shall separate us from the love of god which is in christ jesus, that the principalities, the powers, not evil, not the angels even or the devil or things present or things to come. not anything in all creation should be able to separate us from the love of god which is in christ jesus. we all know love that god so loved the world that he gave his only son. i think, believing that we are somebody and we do count and we are valued, to me that is very motivating and a very powerful factor in life. >> those are some gifts that came out of the african-america

n church and also the sort of theology that came out of mandela's south african experience. not to be embittered by those afflictions of life, particularly when they come from someone else. >> i think you captured it . >> i think it is easier said than done. >> definitely not an easy thing to do. i think that is what it is all about, the constant practice, preparation and prayers. i really lament to it, it is ongoing. you asked me how i managed to stay 40 years and still be upbeat about it and hopeful. it is always ongoing and i never feel it is complete. but i do feel i am on the journey. i have had some wonderful experiences on the journey, serving six churches and meeting all the people i've met . they have been so wonderful. particularly this time of the year, the gifts i received, the cards i received,

all of it. i must have gotten so many cards from barnes & noble. i am a reader. >> we were hoping for some of ron's best books. what are you reading right now? >> biographies. i'm reading a biography on lincoln and tyson, mike tyson. i love biographies. that is my favorite kind of reading. >> why? what do you get from that? >> it tells how people make it, how people struggle, how they fall and get up. they can ruin their lives, like mike tyson is very candid about how he ruined his life, went through all that money, $300 million, and has been given another chance. and inspires kids, and all that. example after example. richard

pryor. i just love to hear about how people struggled and how they overcame. and how they failed sometimes and did not overcome but they are willing to share their story. i moved by that . >> so you're optimistic about the coming year? >> yes. i always have faith. the scripture says without faith, it is impossible. >> we are grateful to you for your work and hosting on mosaic. blessings in this new year. >> thank you very much. you gave me the opportunity. 13 years now. >> try to be like ron swisher. upbeat and positive, the world will be a better place. thanks to you. we will see you again next time.

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