(upbeat music) good morning and welcome to mosaic. i am honored to be your host. we are about to have an

amazing conversation about race in the jewish community. we like you to meet the public affairs and civic director at the jewish community relations council and rabbi jackie, the senior rabbi at temple sinai in oakland. welcome. let's jump in and ask, what are your experiences in the jewish community? >> for the most part my experiences have been very positive. which is why i find myself as a leader now. my family is biracial, i am chinese and ashkenazi jewish, and at times that would pose a challenge growing up. people would question me and even say, are you sure you're jewish, and that would be difficult at

times. >> my experience was wonderful and both complicated and challenging. i grew up in san francisco and went to synagogue and was one of just a few kids that was not recognized as white in the community. i had a rich experience growing up with jewish values and practices and also experienced on a regular basis wondering when i was adopted, why my hebrew was so good, how i learned the prayers. >> we have in our jewish immunity and culture this tremendous respect for what we think of as our text life. which means we value words and play with words and like to think about what the words mean and what are new words to invent and bring into the culture. can you reflect a little bit about sort of the way we use this language, biracial, are you really jewish, and the way we talk about different ways in which

cultures interact and families? what about our language and what does that tell us about the issue in the jewish community? >> the first thought that comes to mind, and this conversation is specific to the united states in terms of dynamics around race we are discussing. the way i think about language, we often talk about the affinity for the other and our care and community on behalf of the other and when we talk about race we often talk about people of color as the other. thereby assuming there are not people of color inside the jewish community. so the first red flag around language is talking about race as people that are the other. >> i think that is a really important point. so often we

think as judaism as being connected to other parts of the world, which is why perhaps all do not look ashkenazi, or do not identify as white. and so we do find that it is a part of who we are . it is not a matter of sort of welcoming someone who is suddenly coming from the outside into the community. >> and that is hard because also the dynamic of being able to talk about people of color as the other gives us a way that we framed our jewish narrative, it's how we talk about the exodus story and passover and talked about how we were once slaves, too. just that frame presupposes that african-americans are not part of that slavery story. so we rely on this language of others to talk about ourselves as jews in the united states.

>> there is very interesting were the people use which is intersectionality and in some ways it is a modern word and in some ways it is a clumsy word and it tries to look at weaving together these kind of uniquely american realities about how we talk about race in our country and how we talk about our culture. does that help us in terms of saying, really, that the other is us and we are the other so there is kind of an odd dynamic and equilibrium and porous lives in which we are basically in some ways pushing at that narrative and demanding inclusion in a way that may or may not be assumed? >> i think that is true and in that respect it requires a lot of patience on everyone's side. to be open is one of the most important pieces. for us, as a jewish community, as we are discussing this, for

everybody to be opened and for people to be in that space where we say, we are the other, it begins an opening to have that conversation about the fact that we thought there was a distance or thought someone was a stranger when really they are not. it is important to be open and reflective and how we understand what makes us jewish and how it can make someone else jewish at the same time. >> we will take a quick break and come back to this conversation. please join us in just a moment as we continue this wonderful conversation.

welcome back to mosaic. we are in the middle of a wonderful conversation, talking with rabbi jackie and elana, the civic engagement director at the san francisco community relations council. we were talking about the function of otherness and how that comes out of the theology of the exodus and it seems natural to just ask, what about being white, what about that aspect of of our culture and how it

functions racially in you, in your lives and in your families. i know it is a big topic and a big way of asking the question but i think for folks familiar with the conversation of race in any community this is just part and parcel that some people may not be familiar with. having said that, what about whiteness in all of this? >> i was thinking in the last segment we were talking about intersectionality, one of the nice things about intersectionality, it allows people, every one of us have multiple identities and in a racial complex we are often challenged to pick one side or another, and for those who are ashkenazi and have two white parents, when they arrived to this country, they were not labeled as white, they were labeled as a people of color and jews were marginalized because of their ethnic backgrounds. so in a modern

dynamic when we have to talk about race, i understand that lots of jews are pushed to abandon their ethnic identity and jump into a kind of whiteness that does not resonate with them. >> it is interesting because you say ashkenazi, referring to jews of european origin. it is interesting to me, let's just say, we, jews, come out of a place in which prejudice was based on religion and ethnicity to a country in a way that says prejudice has roots in skin color. even though internally we would never identify as anything but jewish and that experience of prejudice, we come to a country that from the outside, sees us as white and gives us a kind of presumption of access to society based on the color of our skin without really regard to how we feel

internally. and we succeed, in part, because of that . >> actually looking at jewish white privilege and it jewish context can give us a really interesting perspective when we look at what it means on the outside of the jewish community as well. you walk into a jewish space and you are challenged often if you don't look white, as to whether or not you belong there. and jews that you look white are not challenged. that is privilege, that you are not being asked to explain yourself or give some kind of legitimate reason why you should be there. within the jewish context, i think it is about belonging and because when you walk into a jewish space you want to feel that embrace that the jewish community will give you. it gives a really interesting perspective on what that distance means. if you are white you have the benefit of the doubt, and that is what

privilege is. if you're not, you are asked to explain yourself. and when we take that outside into the greater community and talk about issues of justice and equality we can see how it plays out in the bigger picture as well. >> to the largeness of this conversation, both of your leaders in the jewish community, rabbi and director of civic engagement and public affairs for premier jewish community relations council and agency, and so people come to you for your leadership and expertise in the broadness of the jewish community. it is kind of a big question, but does this issue play out, not play out, i mean, there are certainly subtleties if you are a woman, if you are bisexual or if you are gay or lesbian, can you comment on a little bit

about where this exists and where it does not exist, when people come to you for a consultation on how to deal with the community? >> it plays on all kinds of levels and layers. i choose to be in this role and it is a real privilege to serve in the jewish community and be a leader and with that i choose all the complications that come with the intersection of my racial identity and working in a very mainstream jewish environment. almost everyday people take a second look at me as related to my name. and they don't assume i will be black when they see me live and in person. sometimes i walk into situations where a racist event is unfolding, it may be language or graphic imagery, maybe even inside a synagogue that i am visiting or working in . and i have to grapple with how to be a leader and educator, someone who can

advance the conversation in a way that holds community together and still have authentic feelings about it and process it as a person of color and black person. the other thing is, because of my background as a person of color and also a jewish person working in the jewish community, it gives me vantage points and portals into community connections that maybe people with my background experience can uniquely make on behalf of the jewish community and building larger communities. on one hand there may be complications or assumptions and on the other hand, there are nothing but opportunities to build bridges and connections and advance on the jewish community and all communities working together as allies. >> there is also something interesting about the fact that we both grew up in the jewish community and we have had to really take a good look at our identities and who we are and how we understand ourselves and what makes us jewish. that also

puts us in a unique place as leaders as well. helping other people understand who they are and what makes them jewish. >> and it brings an extraordinary richness to actually developing jewish identity in a greater authenticity with people who might struggle with it in that way. we are going to take a quick break. we are going to welcome another guest in a moment. but rabbi jackie will be staying with us. thank you for staying with us and we invite you to return in just a moment.

welcome back to mosaic. we are in the middle of a wonderful conversation about race in the jewish community and joining us with rabbi jackie is diane tobin, the

founder and executive director of an organization here in the jewish community and in hebrew it means in every tongue and they advocate for racial and ethnic diversity in the jewish community. welcome. let me ask you, what are your experiences in the jewish community? >> i adopted a child 18 years ago and i, like many people, we talk about white privilege, many people are not aware of race, it is such a small part of their lives. our life became very much, we didn't know any black jews and we did a study of racial diversity in the jewish community to understand who was around and what does that world look like? now, 15 years later, we provide a space for a lot of people, jews,

normal jews, jews of color, all kinds, making a decision in life. it is a world in which people are very open, internet, social media allow us to make all kinds of choices about our identity in life. some people are choosing, when talking about multiple identities, people are choosing to be jewish and be a part of the synagogue and a lot of different things. it is creating that space, i meet people where they are and they come from all different spaces. >> when you say people are making different choices, can you comment a little bit on and sort of the jewish context the degree in which people take their jewishness to this other place, to the souther community if that makes sense. >> we came to the united states

as a persecuted minority and we were just fighting for our lives and this is the way in which we succeeded where it was to in some ways it in with other european americans. it is interesting to think about that it's only been like that since after world war ii. as can incessantly outlines in her book . the g.i. bill in some ways provided affirmative action for european males. so at that moment we suddenly became american and had that opportunity. i don't think that was a mistake, it was what it was, no need to rewrite history but we are at a moment in time right now where the american particulars were diverse. growing up in a country that was multiracial, whites will be a minority supposedly as of 2042, so we

have a moment here as a jewish community where we can rethink who we are, how we got here and where we want to move forward. jews are multicultural people, we live all over the world. just because it is immigration from eastern europe, it doesn't resonate like that within the jewish community but the reality is that this is a global world now and we are global people. >> so we, the jewish community, our africans or ethiopian, or latinos in south america and worldwide in this way. >> exactly. >> so if we kind of funnel that global reality to sort of american life, can you comment, both of you, on the experience of when you are jewish and go into the chinese community, your experience on when you are jewish and go into the african-american community, how

does the identity in someplace dominate, how do you take the core of who you are into that community and how does that function? >> you take the core of who you are with you all the time, you are always everything that you are. for a lot of people it isn't a choice in that kind of way. it kind of exists naturally, side-by-side in a way that melds. when i go into the jewish community or chinese community, i take that aspect of me, perhaps the symbols or cultural experiences or things like that that i encounter and those spark specific kinds of reactions within me. in the end those are obviously going to be informed by my greater experiences as a jews as well, just like it forms by the fact that i am chinese . ideally it really does exist in a more holistic kind of way, where

rather than making us choose one or the other it enables us to understand and relate in a much broader kind of way all the time. >> i know you will answer this question, too, but your comment makes me think, do we suddenly force in america a parsing of identity that actually isn't humanly accurate? >> i think people are projecting their own experiences. and what we're finding in the greater mix of races and ethnicities, the more we continue to do that and experienced that, the less we will force one or the other . >> we are going to take a quick break and join us in just a moment when we come back here to mosaic.

welcome back to mosaic. i am honored to be your host, we are in the middle of a great conversation with diane, the founder and executive director of a organization in the jewish community for diversity and ethnicity and rabbi jackie, welcome back. so we were in the middle of this conversation about how notions of understanding is in the jewish

community. >> jackie made a good point a second ago about the fact that if you have diversity within your family, that changes the whole character of the family. for me, i grew up, i didn't even grow up jewish. and then suddenly to have an african-american son rocked my world forever. my worldview is completely and utterly different. and i feel so lucky to have that worldview and it has made my life so much richer and more meaningful. and i feel empathetic for people, we may accuse people of being racist or having white privilege in a certain majority but the reality is that most people don't have the experience and exposure . as an organization we work to provide that to them and to have those conversations. people come overall, they just don't think about it. we had a film, this

year, little white lie, and it really hits that subject. some people just don't think about it or have it in their lives >> we are about to come to the end of our time together and it is really just a part of a grander conversation that has been happening for many, many years in our community and the community at large. but it seems to me, just to ask for your final reflections, it seems to me that with all the ways in which, let's just say something like this happens in your family and you have a different reality, it takes a tremendous amount of love to really get to what the core is of a person and the human being. i just wonder if you have a comment sort of on that level of experience for yourselves. >> i think it is a lot of love,

understanding and openness. we are at a really exciting time, the race piece is just one aspect of what it is to create the american jewish experience and that is a really exciting place that we are . this mixing of families and races, all these things, it means we are becoming a unique experience in the history of jews. >> i think across the whole jewish people, people are choosing to be jewish and maybe not in expressions we might recognize, but they are choosing. 94% of people feel proud to be jewish. >> thank you, so much, i don't want to cut us off but i want to have a moment to say thank you so much for joining us and please join this conversation in your lives. thank you so much for being with us this morning.

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