"you've got a friend in me, you've got a friend in me you just remember what your old pal said. boy, you've got a friend in me." everyone's invited to pixar fest at the disneyland resort for a celebration of friendship and beyond you won't want to miss. now through august 4th, 2024. vist the disneyland resort with a special 3-day disneyland ticket offer for a limited time. test people drive past prisons every day. >> yeah, they're terrified of them. >> or they don't think about them at all?

right? it's kind of like this forgotten zone. i don't want people to forget about this place. >> the united states federal prison system has 158,000 inmates in its custody and locks up some of the most dangerous and high profile criminals in the world. tonight we will take you inside the federal bureau of prisons, an agency in crisis. he's the computer scientist who's known as the godfather of a.i. so, what does he know that we don't? >> i can't see a path that guarantees safety. we're entering a period of great uncertainty, where we're dealing with things we've never dealt with before. and we can't afford to get it wrong with these things. >> why? >> well, because they might take over. ♪ >> so you are bruce springsteen's best friend -- his underboss. >> don't get me wrong -- >> you also have a breakout role as tony soprano's most trusted

adviser. who has this life, little steven van zandt. >> i don't want to liken springsteen to a mob boss, but you know the drill. >> i know those dynamics. i know being the only guy who's not afraid to tell the boss the truth. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm bill whitaker. >> i'm anderson cooper. >> i'm sharyn alfonsi. >> i'm jon wertheim. >> i'm scott pelley. those stories tonight on "60 minutes." ♪ ♪ have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping it off? same. discover the power of wegovy®. ♪ ♪ with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. ♪ ♪ and i'm keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine

that's proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn't be used with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines. don't take wegovy® if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop wegovy® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. tell your provider about vision problems or changes, or if you feel your heart racing while at rest. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. call your provider right away if you have any mental changes. common side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®, i'm losing weight, i'm keeping it off. and i'm lowering my cv risk. that's the power of we. ♪ ♪ check your cost and coverage before talking to your health care professional about wegovy®.

all these games on directv— and no satellite on the roof! think about this: blue jays, cardinals, orioles... what's missing? the andean condor? no, walnut-brain! pigeons! they'd rather name a team after socks! to be fair, we're not very athletic. feeling claritin clear is like... ♪♪ [cat meow] —is she? letting her imagination run wild even though she has allergies. yeah.

nice to meet ya. my name is david. i've been a pharmacist for 44 years. when i have customers come in and ask for something for memory, i recommend prevagen. number one, because it's safe and effective. does not require a prescription. and i've been taking it quite a while myself and i know it works. and i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, "david, that really works so good for me." makes my day. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription.

the united states federal prison system has 158,000 inmates in its custody and locks up some of the most dangerous and high-profile criminals in the world. serial killers and terrorists are among those inside its 122 prisons, which includes supermax penitentiaries and minimum security camps. the cost to american tax payers is more than $8 billion a year. tonight we will take you inside the federal bureau of prisons, an agency in crisis. a series of government investigations has found the bureau's workforce is dangerous ri understaffed. and as we first reported in january, inside its women's prisons, there is an alarming pattern of abuse. colette peters is in charge of fixes the bureau of prisons. she's the sixth director in six years. >> reporter: this is aliceville, a low-security women's prison in rural alabama, where more than 1,400 inmates are serving time. >> people drive past prisons

every day. >> yeah, they're terrified of them. or they don't think about them at all, right? it's, kind of, like, this forgotten zone. i don't want people to forget about this place. >> reporter: colette peters became the director of prisons in august of 2022. %-p reformer. >> i love your poster. we are stronger than we think, aren't we? >> reporter: she was credited with shaping oregon's state prison system by prioritizing staff mental health support and advocating for the compassionate treatment of inmates. >> i have this very early memory in kindergarten, where an individual came in with a pocket knife and was marched to the principal's office. and i just remember in that moment saying, i want to help him. >> many people in your custody are there because of horrific crimes. why do they deserve compassion? >> because 95% of them are going to come back to our community some day. and i want them to be

productive, tax-paying citizens, who no longer commit crimes. >> reporter: but the bureau of prisons is so inadequately staffed, it is struggling to fulfill its mission, rehabilitating inmates and keeping its prisons safe. government watchdogs have documented disrepair in all of its institutions, requiring more than $2 billion in fixes. and employees rank the bureau of prisons the worst place to work in the federal government. >> it's very rare for the media to be allowed inside a federal prison. why are we here? >> i truly believe in transparency. are we perfect? no. do we have issues we need to resolve? absolutely. but i want people to see the good stuff. >> reporter: we toured aliceville with director peters and saw where inmates live, learn new trades, and work, on this day sewing sleeping bags for the military, a coveted job because it pays $1.15 an hour. >> you ladies are amazing, and

when you leave here, you're going to be incredible. >> this ceremony is for inmates graduating from a faith-based program preparing them for life on the outside, by connecting them with community leaders and teaching them life skills, like anger manageent. but the reality is nearly half of federal inmates will end up back behind bars or arrested within three years of getting out. >> a lot of those faces in there who have so much promise and hope today could end up right back in here. >> yeah. you know, i think we have a lot of work to do to dial down that recidivism rate. we have to send fewer people to prison for shorter periods of time. and then when they're here, do things like this. >> you also have a major staffing issue, and people can't get the classes they need. >> staffing was a problem before the pandemic. so, those recruitment efforts and retention efforts have gotten hard. >> how many correctional officers do you need on staff to get you out of this staffing crisis? >> so, we hope to have that real

number for you and the public very soon. >> that seems like a critical number. how was that not on your desk when you took this job on day one and still not there a year later? >> the good news is, this was a problem the bureau was trying to solve before i got here, and we're in the process of solving it. >> she expects to have the number of officers needed by october, more than two years after taking office. but shane faus ey says he knows what that number is now. >> we're short about 8,000 positions nationwide. >> how bad is it? >> the result is one of us losing our life. and it's that bad. we can't continue with this course. >> reporter: by the union's count, the bureau of prisons is down about 40% of the correctional officers it needs. >> the less supervision you have, the more bad things happen. misconduct increases, violence increases. >> reporter: and because there are not enough officers, the

bureau relies on other prison staff to step in. it's a controversial practice called augmentation. >> teachers, nurses, doctors, food service people, the people that maintain facilities. >> they're doing what now? >> they're in a housing unit supervising offenders. >> do they have training in that? >> they do. but i can tell you, i'm no better a plumber than they are a correctional officer. i can walk into a housing unit and tell you something's right or something's wrong. you develop that over years of experience. >> let's break this down. we are talking about hvac repairmen and accountants who are now guarding inmates. that doesn't sound safe. >> so, it is. so, they have the exact same training as the correctional officers. now, what i will say is augmentation should only be used in the short term. we've used this now to solve a long-term retention and recruitment problem. and that isn't right. >> reporter: on this point, the

union and management agree. prison staff, like teachers and doctors, need to be able to do their jobs so that inmates don't lose access to critical services and programs. >> there are buzz phrases, everybody is a correctional officer first. that sounds good on paper. but if you take the teacher out of the classroom and nobody's teaching the offender the skills to go back out to society, we're just back to warehousing people. >> reporter: while we walk the halls of aliceville, classrooms were packed. but several inmates told us what we saw on our tour was staged. >> am i getting a real look at what life is like in here today? >> absolutely not. >> no. >> hmm-mm, no, absolutely not. >> the staff is very disrespectful here. >> even though we made mistakes, when we're out here, we're not treated with respect. >> do you feel safe here? >> sometimes. >> prison is prison. you see what i'm saying? >> tell me about staffing. >> they're short on staff all the time. there's times you don't know if you're going to be able to go outside because somebody didn't

come to work. >> and if you were to speak up about some of these issues you're telling me about, what would happen? >> you're going to the shu. the. >> shu, short for special housing unit, is the jail inside a prison, where inmates are segregated from the general population and seldom let outside of their cells. >> make you nervous to talk to me right fnow? >> a little bit. >> the director is coming today. what does she need to know about alice vill? >> fix it. >> we need more fopportunity to grow and rehabilitate because we don't have that here. >> i talked to a handful of inmates today, and they say you're getting a cleaned up version of what life is like. >> i've been doing this work for a long time, so i can see when things have been swept under the rug, if you will. i'm not naive. and when anybody comes to your house, you clean it up. >> reporter: the rampant sexual abuse of female inmates by the male officers who are supposed

to protect them. women are housed in nearly a quarter of federal prisons. and a 2022 senate investigation found that bureau staff have sexually abused female prisoners in at least two-thirds of those facilities over the past decade. aliceville is no exception. three officers have been convicted of sexual abuse since 2020, including one who pleaded guilty earlier this year. >> those are just the cases that we know about. how does this keep happening? >> you can't predict human behavior. but what i can tell you is the things that we're putting in place to manage to that misconduct, i think are the right things and sending a clear message that this type of behavior is egregious, horrendous, and unexcusable. >> reporter: but female inmates at a women's prison in northern california accuse director peters and the bureau of prisons of failing to protect them. its official name is federal correctional institution dublin, but it's known by inmates and staff as "the rape club." seven dublin officers, including

the warden and the chaplain, have been convicted of sexually abusing nearly two dozen inmates from 2018 to 2021. and this past august, eight inmates filed suit, claiming sexual abuse continues to this day. >> these are mothers. they're daughters. they're sisters. >> reporter: tess korth worked as a correctional officer at dublin for 22 years. she resigned in 2022 after she says she was retaliated against for whistleblowing. >> they train us in the red flags to look for. and then when we report, every red flag, this guy meets, you need to deal with this, they don't do anything. >> what was the chaplan doing that made you suspicious? >> one time i came in on a weekend. he didn't know i was there. his office was dark. he had an inmate in there with him. i don't know what they were doing. >> that's a red flag. >> oh, definitely. >> reporter: former officer korth says she reported the chaplain and other officers, who

she suspected of sexually abusing inmates to an internal affairs investigator but was ignored for years until federal investigators stepped in. >> what happened to the officers that you accused. >> most of them have been or in the process of being convicted. and a lot of them are named in lawsuits right now. >> how does that make you feel? >> good. >> reporter: the bureau of prisons has a backlog of nearly 8,000 open misconduct investigations, hundreds of which contain allegations of sexual abuse. director peters hired more staff to tackle the backlog, but she says it will take two years to clear those cases. in response to the dublin lawsuit, bureau of prisons lawyers say inmates' claims have been investigated and that no threat remains. >> we've done a tremendous job in the last year rebuilding that culture and creating a institution that is more safe where individuals feel

comfortable coming forward and reporting claims. >> you just used the phrase "tremendous job" in dublin. eight inmates have filed a class action lawsuit, and they've got testimony from more than 40 current and former dublin inmates who say the abuse is ongoing. >> that means the process is working. they have the ability to come forward. they have the right to bring that class action lawsuit together. >> these dublin inmates are saying they're facing retaliation for speaking out. >> i have been clear that retaliation will not be stood on my watch. when allegations of retaliation come forward, they are investigated, and we will hold those people accountable. >> it's one thing to say that retaliation is not tolerated, but it sounds like it's actually still happening. >> again, i would say those are allegations. i would like to be more grounded in fact, around proven retaliation. >> reporter: the fact is that an additional 19 staff members have been accused of abusing inmates. the bureau says those staff

members were put on leave, new management was brought in, and working security cameras were installed in areas where inmates were abused. >> what are these victims owed? >> to have individuals who are in our care, who rely on us for their safety and security and to have that be violated, i don't know that you can bring anything that would undo that wrong. >> what about an apology? the victims in dublin say they've never received an apology. >> well, i will tell you that it is our mission to keep them safe. that is our job. >> is your job to apologize for what happened in dublin? >> i don't know that my job is to apologize. is it heartbreaking and horrendous to have something like that happen when you are proud of your profession as a corrections professional? >> absolutely. >> after our report first aired,

the fbi raided dublin and in april it was shut down. there are more than 65 inmates who are filing lawsuits alleging sexual abuse by bureau prison staff. i'm getting vaccinated... ...with pfizer's pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine. so am i. because i'm at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. i'm getting prevnar 20 because there's a chance... ...pneumococcal pneumonia could put me in the hospital. if you're 19 or older with certain chronic conditions... like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, ...or are 65 or older, you are at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. prevnar 20® is approved in adults... ...to help prevent infections from 20 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia. in just one dose.

don't get prevnar 20® if you've had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients. adults with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects were pain and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, fatigue, headache, and joint pain. i want to be able to keep my plans. just one dose can help protect me from pneumococcal pneumonia. that's why i chose prevnar 20®. ask your doctor or pharmacist thpfiz vaccine for pneumococcal pneumonia.

you hose mornings thpfiz vaccine when it takes just a little bit extra g you out of bed? thisight be it. wake up to the goos of jimmy dean.

> whether you think artificial intelligence will save the world or end it, you have geoffrey hinton to thank. hinton has been called the dfather of a.i., a british computer scientist whose controversial ideas helped makee ibled so changed the wo as we first reported last year, elbúves at a. will do enormous good. but tonight he has warning. he says t a.i. stems may be d there's cnce the e kn

machines could take over, which made us ask the question. doing?anity kno what it' no. i think a moving period when, f the first time ever, we may hav things more intelligent than us. >> you bve they can understand? >>s. >> believe they are intellig >> believe these systems have experiences of their own and can make decisions based on those experiences? >> in the same sense as people do, yes. >> are they conscious? >> i think they probably don't have much self-awareness at present. so, in that sense, i don't think they're conscious. >> will they have self-awareness? consciousness? >> oh, yes.i think they will in. >> and so haneings will eecond most ielligent be on the planet? >> yeah.

>> reporr: geoffrey hinton told us the artificial intelligence he set iion was an accident born of a failure. in the 1970s at the university edinburgh, he dreamed of uter, simply a tool for ork on a what he was reallystudng, the human brain. thsoftould mic tmt no one brain. his phd adviser told him torop it before it ruined his career. hinton he failed to figure out the human mind, but the lg uit led to an artificial version. >> it took much, much longer than ixpectetook, like, 50 yrs >> a what point didou rze that you were right about neural networks and most everyone else was >> i alwaythought i was right.

epter: in 2019, hinton andaborae left, and yoshua bengio on the touring award, the noble prize of computing. to understand how their work on artificial neural networks helped machines learn to ar let us take you to a game. >> look at that. oh, my goodness. >> reporter: this is google's a.i. lab in london, which we first showed you last year. geoffrey hinton was not involved in this soccer project, but these robots are a great example of machine learning. the thing to understand is the robo were not programmed to play soccer. therld t score. learn how on thw >> goal. >> reporter: in general, here's how a.i. does it. hinton and his collaborators created software in layers, with

each layer handling part of the network.eural but is is the key. when, for example, the rob through all of the layers ri t says, that pathwayas kewise, en an awe is wrong, that message goes down through the network. so, correct connections get str. connections get weaker. and byri and er mache ac ielf. >> you think these i. systems ar bette at the humanind. >> i think they may , yes. and at present, they're quite a lot smaller. so, even the biggesthatbots onlyav tio cotis in the human brain has about 100 trillion. and yet in the trillion connections in the chatbot, it knows far more than you do in your 100 trillion connections,

which suggests it's got a much better way of getting knowledge into thoseconnti eporter: a muchetter ti kwledha isn't >> we have a very good idea, sort of, roughly what it's doing. but as soon as it gets really complicated, we don't actually know what's going on any more than we fauknow what's going on your brain. >> what do you mean we don't know exactly how it works? itas designed by people. no, it wasn't. what we did was we designed a lear algorithm. that's bit like designed the principle of evolution. when this learning algorithm interacts with data, it produces complicated al networks that are good at doing tngs. but we r undd how they do those things. >> what are the implications of writing their own computer code d executg their o code? >> that's a serious worry, ri soone of the ways in which these systems might escape control is by writing theirwmod

themselvesand tt's something we >> wt do you say to someone who might argue if the systems become malevolent, just turn them off? >> they will be able to manipute people, right? and these will be very good at convincing people because they'll ha learned from all the novels that were ever written, all the books by mac i can't machiavelli, they'll know all that stuff and they'll know how to do it. reporter: know-how of the human kinduns geoffrey nton's family. his ancestors include mathematician george boole, who invented the basis of computing, and george everest, who surveyed india and got that mountain named after him. but as a boy, hinton himself could never climb the peak of expectations raised by a domineering father.

>> every morning when i went to school, he'd actlly s to me, as i walkedn the drew, get in there, and maybe when you're twice as old as me, you'll be half as good. >> reporter: dad was an authority on beetles. >> he knew a lot more about beetles than he knew about people. >> reporter: did you feel that as a child? >> a bit, yes. when he died, we went to his study at the university, and the walls were lined with boxes of papers on different kinds of beetle. and just near the door, there was a slightly smaller box that mply sa, not insects. and that's where he had all the things about the family. >> reporter: today, at 76, hinton is rered after what he calls ten happy years at google. now, he's professor emeritus at the university of toronto, and he happened to mention he has more academic citations than his father. some of his resrch led to

atbots like google's bard, which we met last year. >> confounding, absolutely confounding. >> we asked bard to ask a story from six words. for sale, baby shoes, never worn. holy cow. the shoes were a gift from my wife n had a created a deeply human tale of a man whose wifeouldot conceive a stranger who accepted the to the pain after her miscarriage. >> i am rarely speechless. i don't know what to make of this. >> reporter: chatbots are said to be language models that just predict the next most likely wordased on probability. >> you'll hear peopl sayin things li, they're just doing autocomplete. they're just trying to predict the next word, and they're just using statistics. well, it's true they're just trying to predict the next word. but if you think about it, to predict the next word, you have

to understand the sentences.the they'r not ilint i word, so crazy. you have to be really inteigent to predict the nt re. reporter: to prove it, hinton showed us a test he deviced for chatgpt4, the chatbot from a company called open a.i. it was, sort of, reassuring to see a touring award winner mistype and blame the computer. >> oh, darn this thing. we're going to go back and start again. >> reporter: hinton's test was a riddle about house painting. an answer would demand reasoning and planning. this is what he typed into chat gpt4. >> the rooms in my house are painted white or blue or yellow. in two year's time, i'd like all the rooms to be white. what should i do? >> reporter: the answer began in one second.

gpt4 advised the rooms painted in blue need to be repainted. the rooms painted in yellow don't need to be repainted because they would fade to white before the deadline. and -- >> oh. i didn't even think of that. >> reporter: -- it warned, if you paint the yellow rooms white, there's a risk the color might be off when the yellow fades. besides, it add, be wasting resources, painting rooms that were goingo fade to ite any way. >> you believe that chat gpt4 understands? >> i believe it definitely understands, yes. >> and in five year's time. >> i think in five year's time, it may well be able to reason better than us. >> reasoning that he says is leading to a.i.'s great risks and great benefits. >> so, an obvious area where there's huge benefits is health care. a.i. is already comparable with

radiologists at understanding what's going on in medical images. it's going to be very good at designing drugs. it already is designing drugs. so, that's an area where it's almost entirely going to do good. i like that area. >> the risksre what? >> well, the risks are having a whole class of people who are unemployed and not valued much because what they used to do is now done by chin >> reporter: other immediate risks he worries about include fake news, unintend bias in employme and licing, and aunomous battlefield robots. >> what is a path forward that >> know.safety? don i can't s a pathhat guaranes safety. we're entering a period of great uncertaiy where we're dealing thefore.ngs we've never dealt and normally the first time you

deal with something totally novel, you get it wrong. and we can't afford to get it wrong with these things. >> can't afford to get it wrong, why? >> well,ecause they might take over. >> take over from humanity. >> yes, that's a possibility. i'm not sayg i wil happ t it's n clear we can stop a them fromanti to. >> geoffrey hinton tol u he has egtsecauf a.i.'s potential for but he says now i the moment to run experiments tonder a.i. for gernmen to impe regulations, and for a world treaty to ban the use of military robots. he reminded us of robert oppenheimer, who, after inventing the atomic bomb, campaigned against the hydrogen bomb. a man who changed the world and found the world beyond his control. int, when humanity have to ng

make the decision about toelophese things further and wh do to protect themselves if they did. i don't know. i think my main message is, there's enormous uncertainty about what's going to happen next. these things do understand. and because they understand, we need to think hard about what's gong to happen next. and we just don't know. cbs sports hq is presented by progressive insurance. at the 2024 u.s. open, bryson dechambeau picked u his second u.s. open championship, outlanding rory mcilroy and patrick cantlay. tches, theetands in stage england for victorious. for 24/7 news and highlights,

visit cbssportshq.com. come on in. [ sighs ] here's my pride and joy. [ romantic music plays ] ♪♪ beautiful stair renovation, sir. and they're covered with your home and auto bundle with progressive, so you get round-the-clock protection. so, is gabby coming down? oh, she said she'll meet you at the prom. if you have generalized myasthenia gravis, picture what life could look like with vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? vyvgart hytrulo can improve daily abilities and reduce muscle weakness with a treatment plan that's personalized to you. do not use vyvgart hytrulo if you have a serious allergy to any of its ingredients. it can cause serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing and decrease

in blood pressure leading to fainting, and allergic reactions such as rashes, swelling under the skin, shortness of breath, and hives. the most common side effects are respiratory and urinary tract infections, headache, and injection site reactions. it may increase the risk of infusion-related reactions and infection. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart hytrulo for gmg and picture your life in motion.

- lift the clouds off of... - virtual weather, only on kpix and pix+. steven van zandt embodies both the frustration and the beauty of the arts. there are no org charts, no official titles, no one way to do the job. he's discovered that it's easier to be this creative furnace, this volcano of artistic output wen you are not the focus. so, as we told you in november, the longtime guitarist and musical director for bruce springsteen and the e street band was also an underboss of a different kind, acting in one of

tv's most influential shows, "the sopranos," that is while he was not writing scripts and music trying to preserve rock and roll. >> reporter: late on a sunday afternoon last summer, s van zandt was midway through a burst of furious creativity, tending to his latest screenplay, he had an idea he had to commit to the page. >> a couple of singers who, you know, day job is leg breakers. >> reporter: where was this quaint writer's retreat? in his backstage dressing room at a concert in rome mere minutes before van zandt put his pen and pad away and went on stage. >> come on, stevie. ♪ >> he said, we had to come see

you guys perform in rome. of all the cities, all the gin joints, why rome? >> the fans here are just so much fun. you see everybody singing every single word of every single song, when they don't particularly speak english, right? >> that's aalidion. >> it's a validation. it's a show of -- the power of what we do. >> let's go. >> reporter: swaddled in his trademark bandana and wrapped in complexity, little steven, now 73, remains a true american original, the ultimate wingman. >> i'm not crazy about the spotlight. i could have been and maybe i should have been, okay, because, again, you realize that has big advantages. but naturally i just wasn't into it. i'd rather be standing next to the guy, let him be in the spotlight, let him take the heat, because i like to blend in actually. >> yeah, i can tell by the -- by the modest, measured outfit. >> i gave up trying to analyze

it years ago. but i prefer to be an observer rather than the observed. >> can i break it to you? >> should i lie down on the couch? >> reporter: one thing he's not questioning, his place in the band. >> people are saying, aren't you worried about being replaced? oh, my god, no. i can't be replaced. how many best friends do you have for 50 years, you know? >> reporter: the best friend he springsteen.of course, is they met as teenagers in 1960s jersey, misfits seduced by rock and roll. to quote little steven, the beatles revealed this new world to us, theolling stones invited in. formed a band anchored in asury park.give that van zandt monthly overhead of $150 in rent, the going was good. more important, the band learned how to play live, how to marry musicianship with showmanship. >> the fact that we were in bars making our bones, you know,

what, seven year bs b we got into the music business, right? >> you get into this game this speaks to you. what's it brought you that you didn't expect? >> other than everything, it was just everything. it saved my life. i mean, i didn't -- i didn't have any -- i didn't have any path forward. so, it -- it brings you acceptance, to be a part of something. and man, it just came along right at the right time. you're making a living playing rock and roll, man. that was the miracle. >> reporter: van zandt, who doesn't read or write music, brought his guitar chops and his musical ear. ♪ arranging the iconic horns on tenth avenue freeze out and polishes springsteen's guitar lick on "born to run."

>> how much credit do you take? how much credit should you take for the success of this band? >> i understood certain things earlier that everybody else -- if you listen to "town," i listen to "river," the difference is me, you know? i'm not ever going to take more credit than the rest of this band, so i just was helping shape things and realize bruce's vision. it's his vision. i try to make bad things good, good things great, and great things better. >> reporter: yet after an argument over creative input, van zandt left the band in 1984 and was conspicuously absent on tour for springsteen's most commercially successful album. he had married actress maureen santoro and started writing songs for his own band, little steven and the disciples of soul. ♪ and he turned his attention to

political activism, most notably to apartheid in south africa. >> 26 million black people could not vote, could not even have a, you know, a cup of tea with a white person without permission. it's terrible. >> reporter: in 1985, van zandt wrote and coproduced the protest song, "sun city." ♪ you want to play sun city ♪ >> reporter: which cast the resort town three hours outside johannesburg, as a symbol of moral failure of apartheid. he got them to commit to a boycott. >> we used that as an example and we exposed that whole fraudulent scheme. >> ain't gonna play sun city. >> yeah. >> reporter: in the late '90s, he and sfrieng reconciled. and when his boss asked him to rejoin the e street band, well, this gun was for hire. ♪ woke up this morning ♪

♪ got yourself a gun ♪ >> reporter: but there was a hitch. van zandt had already committed to a new tv show on hbo. >> i generally don't think there's anything to gain by keeping him around. >> the creator, david chase, had seen van zandt at the rock and roll hall of fame, made him an offer he couldn't refuse. >> he calls says, you know, you want to be in my new tv show? i said, wow, that's really nice, david. i really appreciate that, but, no, not really, you know? he said, what do you mean no? i'm like, i'm not an okay investor. is an actor. isn't that a problem. >> van zandt says he wanted him to play the lead. >> hbo, are you out of your mind? i've never acted before. >> the sopranos would elevate television. while the lead would go to james

gan gandolfini. >> i knew if i could see him in the mirror, i felt i could be him. i was a little bit of a mob aficionado. i played -- for christ's sake. who has better credibility than that? >> don't get me wrong. >> reporter: the guy who played tony soprano's right-hand man, he had more than a passing familiarity with the part. >> i don't want to liken bruce springsteen to a mob boss, but you -- >> a little bit? >> you've had that experience. you've done that drill. you knew what it was like to be -- >> i know those dynamics. i know being the only guy who's not afraid to tell the boss the truth. that's the job, okay? that's the gig. if you're the guy's best friend or the underboss, you know, somebody has to be the one to occasionally bring bad news. >> what was an adjustment, the passive aggressiveness of the acting stage. >> now it's like who's got more lines, who's going to be in front of the camera at the right

time. so, i'm sensing all this kind of weird -- you know, little bit weird -- i'm not used to this kind of -- >> this tension. >> yeah. and i decided i'm going to turn this show into a rock and roll band. you know, before i'm done, okay? this show is going to be a band. it's one for all, all for one, right? >> who's this guy? >> reporter: an originals "sopranos" poster is one of the relics adorning his studio in greenwich village. van zandt being van zandt embarked on new projects. he started his memoir. and he cowrote and starred in "lilyhammer," a mob show based in norway that would become the first original series in the history of a streaming service called netflix. >> take it easy. where are you going? >> reporter: but wait, there's more. concerned about the decline in rock venues and album sales, he launched a weekly radio program,

"little steven's underground garage." >> you wouldn't mind you were supplanted a little bit about a new wave of fans? >> i'd love it. >> reporter: he also found the bandwidth to launch t-truck, a k-12 curriculum that uses rock and roll to sneak in the other stuff. >> we say, tell us what you're listening to. well, i'm listening to beyonce. well, you know where beyonce comes from? she comes from a woman named aretha franklin. and aretha franklin comes from a place called detroit. we talk about detroit. and we talk about she comes from the gospel church. she was involved in civil rights. and we talk about that, you know? and they're listening and they're paying attention. why? because we're on their turf. >> and yet we always hear about how art and music programs are getting cut in public schools. why is that? >> yes, it's because people don't understand we're the only country in the world that thinks art is a luxury.

everybody else in the world understands art is an essential part of the quality of life. >> the current state of play in music makes him all the more grateful that a couple of jersey nonconformists timed it right, caught some breaks, and became rock and roll titans. >> how do you even begin to start describing steven van zandt? >> i don't know if i can do that except all i can say is i met him when he was 16. steve is the -- of the e street band. if i have questions pertaining, a direction from the band or issues with the band or something like the set list -- i'm not sure what we're going to play that night or what we should start with or if he has second doubts about something, he always comes to me. so, he's been essential to me since -- i don't know -- since he walked into the studio during the "born to run" sessions and

fixed the horns and my guitar parts. and we've been doing it together for a long time. and that's a wonderful thing. how many people have their best friend at their side 50-some years later? >> what are you guys talking about? >> the same music. we like the same clothes. >> you guys meet at teenagers. you're jersey outcasts. and here we are more than 50 years later, you're going out to play circus maximus in rome. >> you can't put it together. it's one of those things that happens. >> how do you make sense of that, seriously? >> well, the in a way, it makes sense because, i think, as we mentioned, we couldn't do anything. so, we were destined to do this. >> and we did nothing else. so, that has a lot to do with it too. all we did was music, music, music, music, play it, play it, play it. ♪ going down the well tonight ♪ ♪ gonna drink until i get my

fill ♪ >> reporter: that, we and the rest of the crowd experienced for ourselves. >> hey steve! i think it's time to go home now. >> reporter: still rocking out in his '70s, trying to save radio, trying to save rock, writing screenplays, if steven van zandt is accused of being an artistic dreamer, without apology, he would plead guilty. >> is this the sonic version of " "donkey hoty?" >> that's my life story. steven van zandt on james gandolfini. >> you guys were close. >> yeah, i miss him every day. >> at 60minutesovertime.com. atee crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me ♪ (♪♪) ♪ control is everything to me ♪

feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and skyrizi is proven to help deliver long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. (♪♪) ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save.

♪♪ why won't scout play with us anymore? he has something called osteoarthritis pain. it's joint pain that hurts him all the time. come on, scout. now, there's librela. the first and only once-monthly injection to control your dog's oa pain. veterinary professionals administering librela who are pregnant, trying to conceive, or breast feeding, should take extreme care to avoid self-injection, which could cause allergic reactions like anaphylaxis. this is the best day of my life! all these games on directv— and no satellite on the roof! think about this: blue jays, cardinals, orioles... what's missing? the andean condor? no, walnut-brain! pigeons! they'd rather name a team after socks! to be fair, we're not very athletic.

i'm cecelia vega. we'll be back next week with another edition of "60 minutes."

it has derm-proven retinol... ...expertly formulated... ...to target skin cell turnover... ...and fights not one—but 5 signs of aging. with visible results... ...in just one week. neutrogena [tense music] one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. aleve. who do you take it for? ...and for fast topical pain relief,try alevex.

♪ ♪ >> announcer: and now, cbs special presentation. live from new york city, the 77th annual tony awards, with your host, ariana debose. [applause] ♪ ♪