i'm jane pauley. please join us when our trumpet sounds again next "sunday morning." i'm margaret brennan in washington and this week on "face the nation," democrats head to their convention in chicago as inflation cools. and the political back and forth over economic policies intensifies. with the presidential contest lineup set to be formally locked

in this week, both sides turn their attention to issue number one on the minds of the voters, the economy and inflation. >> i will go after the bad actors and i will work to pass the first ever federal ban on price gauging on food. >> a lot of people are very devastated by what's happened with inflation and a lot of other things. they say it's the most important subject. i'm not sure it is. inflation is the most important but that's part of the economy. >> the former president's prescription is twofold. >> vote trump and your incomes will soar. >> and a new line of false attack on vice president harris. >> kamala went full communist. you heard that. she went full communist. she wants to destroy our country. after causing catastrophic inflation. >> we'll tell you why that's wrong. and how the voters see the cand candidates handling of the

economy. plus we'll talk to two key democrats. arizona senator mark kelly and kentucky governor andy beshear. and as they seem optimistic about the cease-fire deal between israel and hamas, ukraine makes a new move to turn the tables on russia. house intelligence committee chairman mike turner will be here. it's all just ahead on "face the nation." ♪ good morning and welcome to "face the nation." on the eve of the democratic national convention our cbs news poll continues to show a very tight race in the 2024 presidential race. vice president kamala harris is three points ahead of former president donald trump nationwide, but in those seven

key battleground states which could go either way, the race is a dead heat. joining us with more is cbs news executive director of elections and surveys, anthony salvanto. good to see you here, anthony. >> good morning. >> what do voters tell you is most important heading into a pretty unusual democratic convention? >> so let's start by reminding everybody how we got here to what this is, only can be described as a very close race. in fact, remember the national vote doesn't decide the presidency, it's those battleground states. if you unpack that and look at our estimates in each of those individual battle grounds, what you see is close race after close race. that is because after kamala harris became the likely nominee, we saw a boost in democratic enthusiasm. more democrats saying they were going to show up to vote. that boosts her poll numbers and that continues to this day. we now see democrats matching republicans on that expressed likelihood to turn out. so when you watch the

convention, look for them to try to keep that enthusiasm up. that's number one. number two on your question about defining kamala harris. so you see 1/3 of voters say they still don't know exactly what she stands for. >> interesting. >> interesting but maybe not surprising, right? because this is all so new, this reset race. well, that's part of the defining the space in which that contest within the contest to define her is going to be fought, and the other part, i think, on that is how similar or different is she to joe biden? because joe biden was trailing in his race, right? but democrats still like him. so we asked people how similar is she? and the bulk of voters say they think she's mostly similar in policies and views to joe biden but not exactly similar. and she does better among the mostly group. so that's that balancing act that democrats are going to have going into the convention as well, margaret. >> i know you've been looking at the growing gender gap. so does having a female at the

top of the democratic ticket now make a difference for women voters? >> i think it's going to be a hallmark of this race so it's more women voting for harris, more men voting for trump. but the key thing is the why. first of all, you see more women feeling that kamala harris will be someone who fights for people like them than men say that. am men say that more about donald trump. tht's not one. number two, you look at the broader views on how people see the push for gender equality in the u.s. when people say it's going too far, they vote for donald trump. when people say it hasn't gone far enough, especially among women, they'reheingly voting for harris. and then number three, look at that key issue of the economy. there's a couple of things here. one is that harris trails trump on the economy, on inflation, on the border, all key important issues, but among women voters

she does a little better on the economy and better than joe biden was doing. so women are giving her a little bit more benefit of the doubt on that. i think that starts to show you the democrats can start to close that gap with donald trump on those key issues, that's probably where they start. >> you mentioned the border. how much of a challenge is it going to be for kamala harris to overcome some of that doubt? >> well, this is important because for all the movement we've talked about in this race, the things that haven't changed. the border remains to the advantage of donald trump. more voters think it would be his policies that would slow or stop borde crossings. and then you look at harris's connection to what people think the administration has done so far, and they see her as somewhat tied to it but not necessarily a lot. again, that's part of that space in which they'll be trying to define what's her record been and where would she be going forward. another key issue, but i've got to emphasize this, abortion.

that's something you're going to see the democrats press a lot and it also relates, of course, back to the gender gap and the women's vote. harris has an advantage on abortion. democrats have 3/4 of women who think abortion should be legal, say they're voting for her, so i think that's something, again, that you want to press. it's that fight to define which issues are most important and that's certainly one democrats are going to press. >> fascinating. anthony salvanto, thank you. >> thank you. we go now to arizona senator mark kelly. he joins us from chicago where the dnc will kick off tomorrow. good morning to you, senator. >> good morning, margaret. >> well, you just heard some of our polling, and if we zero in on your home state, a key battleground, we see that vice president harris is trailing donald trump by just 1 point. donald trump is expected to be visiting the border with mexico in your state at some point in

the coming days. our cbs polling shows 48% of registered voters believe that if harris wins the election, border crossings will increase. the how much of a liability is that perception in arizona? >> well, margaret, first of all, thank you for having me on. with regards to the border, just like so many other issues, the contrast between donald trump and kamala harris could not be more clear. kamala harris has supported our bipartisan border security bill that donald trump told senate republicans to run away from. the so she's been working on this issue. border crossings on the arizona border are down substantially. she's been focused on this issue, where the former president is trying to undermine our border security. i mean, he specifically told my senate colleagues that they could not support this bill because he wanted to have this

issue for the election. i've never seen anything like this before. you know, my 3 1/2 years in the united states senate. i think it shows that kamala harris is the leader that can bring us into the future. donald trump just wants to, you know, drag us back into the past. >> do you have any idea where the border ranks for vice president harris? she hasn't talked about it much on the campaign trail to date. she has said she wanted to revive the legislation you just talked about. she also said something about comprehensive reform with an earned pathway to citizenship. is this a first 100 days priority for her? >> well, i've heard her talk about it. i was at an event in glendale, arizona, outside of phoenix with my wife, gabby give forz, 15,000 people out of the room. specifically myself and the vice president, we discussed this how the border is an important issue, especially for border states. the state of arizona that i represent. it's not only border security.

i mean, kamala harris really wants to reform our immigration system. our immigration system helps support our economy. and i expect, you know, that she will be focused on this after she's elected president. >> you need the rest of the congress to agree to follow that path, and you know that that's been an impediment to date. >> that has with donald trump still in the picture. once he is done and gone, i really believe that my senate colleagues, the republicans in the united states senate will get back on to this bill because they negotiated it. and this wasn't meeting them like on the 50 yard line on the issue, this was meeting them on the 10 yard line on their side of the field. >> right. >> we almost had it done until donald trump said they were not allowed to vote for the bill. so i expect her to -- you know, to help us get this across the finish line and she said she

would sign it. >> back during your 2022 senate debate, you said democrats don't understand the issue. you said how you had to stand up to president biden yourself when he was creating what you called a bigger crisis by taking up, quote, dumb move by lifting title xlii pandemic era restrictions without a backup plan in place. do you hold vice president harris responsible for those decisions as well? how do you tell your fellow a ari arizonans to dismiss it when you said it was a legitimate complaint? >> back in 2022 when we had a crisis on our southern border, i talked about it with my colleagues, both democrat and republicans and with the white house and it was those discussions that enabled us to get to the point where we were able to negotiate a bipartisan agreement. it addressed so many different things. it was going to provide more border patrol agents, more border patrol pay, money to

build facilities to temporarily hold migrants. so we -- this legislation had a lot of things, you know, in effect. >> it didn't get done. >> it was a reasonable compromise. it didn't get done because of donald trump, not because of the administration. >> when you were saying democrats don't understand this issue, do you think vice president harris understands this issue? >> yes, she does. absolutely. and i think when we talk about some of the democrats in the united states senate that weren't really getting it in 2022, now they get it. that's why we were going to be able to provide -- i think the plan was we were going to provide 40 votes, the republicans about 20. we would get the legislation passed. then we could move on to some of the other stuff that vice president harris talked about which is comprehensive immigration reform. again, donald trump, he just wants to talk about this issue and so do my senate republicans, by the way, right after j.d. vance became the nominee. what did he do? he went down to the southern border in arizona to takes a

picture. he doesn't actually want to fix this. kamala harris will fix this problem. >> let me ask you about ukraine. i know you are very focused on that war. their forces launched this bold incursion into western russia into the kursk area. are you comfortable with u.s. weapons being used on russian soil? >> well, margaret, yes, i am at this point. the ukrainians were illegally attacked by vladimir putin. he -- i mean, he is potentially killing women, children, old people. it was an illegal invasion. this incursion, let's characterize it that way, i don't think the ukrainians want to hold russian territory for a long time, but this really set putin back on his heels. he has always tried to characterize himself as somebody that is going to protect russia.

i think his citizens are seeing the results of what he has done in ukraine, that now they are somewhat at risk, 130,000 r russians have had to leave, leave their homes. and at this point in this conflict i think the ukrainians did something unpredictable that could change the tide of how this conflict is going to play out. >> a number of key former officials wrote a letter to president biden last week calling on him to lift restrictions on the u.s. weapons provided to ukraine to allow them to strike legitimate military targets in russia. would you echo their calls? >> well, margaret, those restrictions, you know, some of them have already been lifted. and since the -- since the invasion now over two years ago we have, you know, periodically,

as we should. >> re-evaluate how we should conduct ourselves and i think it's appropriate to continue to look at what their needs are, how can we make adjustments, what new weapons systems are we going to provide to them. they just recently got m-16s. my hope is that over time here the ukrainians learn how to better deploy that weapons system and we're going to see some positive success from f-16s on the battlefield. the same is true for himars and others too. periodic dickically evaluating it is the appropriate thing to do. >> senator mark kelly, thank you. "face the nation" will be back in one minute. stay with us.

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turner. good morning to you. >> thanks for having me. >> good to have you here in person. i want to talk about the election meddling we've been hearing is underway. u.s. intelligence and the justice department say iran is working to influence the outcome of the next election. the fbi's investigating phishing attempts at people associated with both the trump and harris campaigns. we know in 2020 the supreme leader had sanctioned iran interfering to hurt donald trump in that election. are you satisfied with what the social media companies and u.s. intelligence are doing now? >> you know, i think what's missing here is a response from the administration. you have microsoft coming forward and saying the trump administration has been -- excuse me, the trump campaign had been attacked. the administration, biden administration, had identified that iran was attempting to do this, including spreading misinformation. even further, the administration has acknowledged that iran had -- was executing a plan to assassinate donald trump.

even alleging an individual they have in possession was part of that plot. you don't really have a response from the administration. most national security experts resoundly agree that killing a presidential candidate would be an act of war from a foreign power. certainly attempting -- >> they have -- >> attempting does require a response. on this the administration is both on the hacking side, on the misinformation side and on the alleged attempt on donald trump's life is not holding iran accountable. there's no red lines. >> so you don't count the arrest and prosecution of the individual who was recruiting -- >> this is not a law enforcement issue. this is a nation state that the administration has identified as having executed a plot to try to inate donald trump and is undertaking misinformation, election interference, including hacking. this requires a response from the administration. >> you have oversight of the

intelligence community. you can't talk about classified information, but are you suggesting here there aren't even covert actions being taken against iran? >> i'm saying there is -- there is -- there is not a response that impacts iran or that has a deterrent effect or holds them accountable and that, of course, results in increased activity and increase embolding of iran to medal in our elections and to have people at risk in our country. >> what would you want be to see, sanctions or -- >> of course you first start with a statement by the administration and then also you could go to there need to be statements of red lines and understanding what actions would occur and there does need to be action. the administration needs to look at what does their response need to be now that they're saying they have in custody an individual they allege was part of an iranian plot to assassinate donald trump. >> those other individuals associated do receive protection from diplomatic security.

>> cabinet members have been targeted. >> the administration is approving that is my point. on what the u.s. intelligence community is assessing about interfering in the election, the diector of national intelligence did brief reporters and said moscow has not changed its preference of candidates which in 2016 and 2020 is donald trump. is enough being done on that front in terms of that level of meddling, which is expected to continue as well? >> i think what we're seeing, especially on the part of iran, they understand donald trump is anti-iran and he recognizes that a strong america is a safer world. now the -- if you look further as to meddling and what russia is doing, i think in this instance trump has certainly indicated that he wants to bring an end to the conflict between russia and ukraine. it isn't an anti-ukraine position but it is a stronger american position. we were just talking to senator kelly about the restrictions

being placed on ukraine by the biden administration in this conflict. those certainly are troublesome and do result in this sort of status quo of it can be a game of attrition on ukraine. >> so to the point in terms of lifting further restrictions, which i think he favored, i know you advocate this as well, but how much is based on the imperative there are five months left of the biden administration and the trump/vance view is, quote, that it is not in america's interest to sustain that core? do you need to surge in the next five months? because j.d. vance who i've interviewed many times about this is clear he is not for continued support financially. >> no one is for this war continuing, but i certainly fully support ukraine. and i think a concern with the biden administration's restrictions also needing to get them modified is ukraine is finally in a position where they can hold russia accountable. if they can, they have now

entered into russian territory. if they can use long range weapons systems to hold russia's valid military targets that are attacking ukraine, we can change the dynamics on the ground. you can't continue to just have a front line in ukraine where russia is outproducing weapon systems from what ukraine has and have this turn out well for ukraine. in this instance, if the biden administration's restrictions are lifted, if there is a harris administration that follows that ukraine's support would be there, the ability to hold rssia accountable would be there. >> you have said you are concerned about aggressiveness from authoritarian nations that are putting democracy at risk. donald trump called xi jinping, vladimir putin lovely individuals and he said this on thursday -- >> i'm not looking to be bad to iran. we're going to be friendly, i hope, with iran, maybe.

but maybe not. but we're going to be friendly, i hope. we're going to be froentdly. but they can't have a nuclear weapon. they can't have a nuclear weapon. we were all set to make sure they don't have a nuclear weapon because once they do, it's a whole different world. >> i'm sure you'd be critical of democrats saying they want to be friendly with iran. what do you make of the mixed messaging from mr. trump? >> i don't think it's mixed messaging to say some of the strengths. donald trump with the maximum pressure campaign on iran put the most pressure on iran they have had economically and militarily. >> they -- >> actually, they had. >> they restarted. >> in their processes they had slowed. what we see now with this administration, they might have -- they might declare themselves a nuclear weapon state by the end of this year. the reports have been -- news reports have been out stating -- >> are you saying that the supreme leader has changed his

conclusion on this? >> there is a possibility with advances that have been made under the biden administration's policy that iran could, reports are out that iran could declare itself a nuclear weapon state by the end of the year. >> but that conclusion hasn't been made, has it? >> no, but you wouldn't have had that under the trump administration's maximum pressure campaign. the flexibility they've had has given them the ability to influence our elections, actively try to undertake a plot to assassinate donald trump and to continue their nuclear weapons and nuclear enrichment programs. >> we have to leave it there, chair turner. we'll be right back.

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we'll be right back with kentucky governor andy beshear. the head of the chicago if he had bank austan goolsbee and anne milgram. there's nothing like a wendy's frosty. it's cool. it's creamy. it's only a dollar right now.

wait... what?! the one and only frosty is a buck? gotta be wendy's. welcome back to "face the nation." we go now to the kentucky governor, andy beshear, who joins us this morning from frankfurt. good morning, governor. >> good morning. thanks for having me. >> well, we know that you are an

advocate for vice president harris, and as a democrat who runs red state, how would you advise democrats to stop losing support in rural areas? >> well, i'd advise them to first of all focus on those things that matter most to people when they wake up in the morning. when people wake up in the morning, they're not thinking about this presidential election, they're thinking about their job and whether they make enough to support their family. they're thinking about their next doctor's appointment for theirselves, their kids. they're thinking about the roads and bridges they drive. they're thinking about the school they drop their kids offer at and they're thinking about the public security. that's why i'm excited about the vice president's economic plan. it goes to the heart of how you support your family with two tax credit expansions that will help the middle class. it goes t to affording health ce in capping overall

pharmaceutical costs. the bipartisan infrastructure helps us on the roads and bridges we've traveled. very excited to support the harris/walz team. >> to get those things done, vice president would need a congress to work with her. those aren't quick fixes necessarily. on the harris economic plan you mentioned, there was also a federal ban on price gouging on food and penalties for companies that exploit prices. president obama's top economist was critical saying the good case scenario is price gouging is a message, not a reality. the bad case scenario is this is a real proposal. you'll end up with bigger shortages, higher prices and worse outcomes for consumers. dune how this would work? >> i do because i've been an attorney general just like the vice president. i pursued price gouging statutes

and their violations when it comes to the price of gas in kentucky and we won and ultimately returned millions of dollars to our people. this isn't about trying to price fix, it's just making sure that the economy is operating the way it should, that this is really supply and demand which we all respect. it's no different than what teddy roosevelt did in breaking up monopolies, it's just making sure we have the right regulations and tools in place to make sure everybody is playing the game fairly and by the rules. >> so it sounds like you're just talking about antitrust policy, but -- which is something j.d. vance actually supports. but republicans, as you know, are accusing harris of advocating for price controls, like in communist countries where the government sets a price rather than the marketplace. you just said it's not price controlled but can you explain then how you define what an excessive price is if you don't have a benchmark? >> well, first, these are types

of statutes that exist in state law. the texas attorney general has prosecuted price gouging violations and i don't think anyone is going to claim that he is into price fixing and neither is the vice president. this has to be evidence based. ultimately you bring an action and you have to prove it in kourt so you have to have the evidence. this is beyond supply and demand, this is people taking advantage of us. certainly we've seen it after natural disasters in red states and blue states. it's just making sure that coming out of the pandemic or in difficult times that people aren't increasing the price of food just to make a bigger profit. all it is is making sure capitalism stays within the guardrails. it's not new, we've been doing this in the states for a long time. >> you also mentioned there some of the federal support for efforts already underway, including, by the way, electric vehicles which i know kentucky,

you've talked quite a lot about attracting some of these plants there. $11 billion invested in the facilities. you've got at least three expected to open in 2025. what's the breakdown there of union versus non-union jobs? >> well, all of the facilities are being built with union labor. thousands upon thousands of jobs over the course of that construction, which has taken years. when the ford sk plants open, that won't be union labor because of an agreement reached between ford and the uaw, between ceo farley and shaun feign. what it did mean is 10,000 plus uaw workers in ford's two other facilities in kentucky got better wages, better benefits, better lives for their families. we're excited how the union and the company were able to come together to reach an agreement that works for everybody and that's what we want to see.

we want to see companies continue to invest because we need them but we want them to be good jobs to support families and that's the outcome we got here. >> we've seen the interesting phenomenon where right to work states like kentucky have benefitted from federal investments and subsidies but we don't really hear democrats talking about that too much. do you think that companies are opening plants in right to work states like yours because the labor is simply cheaper? >> i have never heard an employer talk about right to work in kentucky. in fact, we've opened a number of facilities that have union workers. we see more and more companies using the building trades, union labor to build their facilities. in fact, union membership has gone up in kentucky each of the last two years and certainly our building trades are busier than they have ever been. this may be the golden age of union labor in kentucky despite having those terrible statutes

on the books. but my job as governor isn't to whine or complain about the statutes we have but to go out and build the best lives to our people and certainly the bipartisan infrastructure alone. the inflation reduction act. the beef program. they require reasonable wages where employers immediately turn because they know they're the most skilled and very best and are now seeing better interaction between companies and organized labor than i have in decades. it's really exciting. >> i know you'll be talking about labor and its role at the convention later this week. governor, thank you very much for your time today. we'll be right back.

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great to see you again, margaret. >> president goolsbee, barons had a piece yesterday saying the most consequential event this fall won't be the u.s. election, it won't being a war in the middle east, it will be the federal reserve's decision in september to lower interest rates for the first time in more than four years. is that a certainty? do you think it is time to lower rates? >> i don't think it's a certainty and i don't like, as you know, tieing our hands ahead of time when we have a lot of data coming in and everyone on the committee is going to speak their peace. it's a committee decision. we try, as the fed, to make clear what our reaction function is, if you want to call it that. i invite everybody to go read the statement of economic projections, which in our world colloquially we call the dot plot where we outline every

quarter what do the members of the committee individually think will be the appropriate policy for each of the next three years and what economic conditions do they expect to correspond with tose. and we've been making clear for quite a while what economic conditions would be appropriate for us to cut rates, for us to hold rates where they are and things like that. i do think we set an interest rate more than a year ago at a high level because we were fighting inflation and the economic conditions today are very different than they were when we set the rate at this level. >> so interest rates and supply of housing impact what consumers end up paying for shelter. what is going to bring down shelter costs? because that was such a big part of the inflation number that we just saw. >> well, look, margaret. you know as much as anybody about this. the biggest puzzle that we've

seen in the inflation numbers has been the persistently high inflation rate on shelter and housing. and we can get a little mixed up because that official measure is very -- is a very lagging indicator of what the actual housing price conditions are on the ground. so our puzzle has been why the market rents inflation rate has come down but that hasn't yet been reflected into the official backward looking housing inflation. so one of the things that's going to bring it down is just we're going to keep getting more data and that's going to get incorporated into the official series. but the second is the interest rate -- how it works -- how the fed stabilizes business cycle is when it tightens the screwdriver, the interest rate goes up and the demand for housing goes down. so some of those interest rate sensitive sectors of the economy

weakness in that is partly how the monetary transmission takes place and the inflation rate softens. it's worth noting that last year inflation fell by almost as much as it has ever fallen in a single year in the united states. >> yeah. >> and that happened without a recession, which is unparalleled. we're hoping to continue some of that as we go through 2024. >> that's part of the delicate dance the fed is doing here. bank of america ceo was with us last weekend on "face the nation" and he told us his economists are no longer predicting a recession. he said there is a risk if the fed does not start to take rates down. take a listen. >> if they don't start taking them down relatively soon, you could despirit the american consumer. once they start going very negative, then it's hard to get them back. >> he also said corporations aren't using their lines of credit due to the higher rates.

what do you make of that caution? >> i think it's a valid caution. when rates are this high, if you take a measure of how tight the fed is as just a what's the rate minus what's the inflation rate, when you set a rate high like we have and hold it there while inflation falls, you're actually tightening. credit conditions are getting tighter and when we go out in the chicago 7th district, you can hear from business leaders and community leaders around the district that credit conditions on them are tight, bank loans and the rates they pay and credit availability is tight. so i think he's right. i think you've got to have a caution when you see small business defaults rising like they have been rising, you see consumer credit delinquencies, credit card delinquencies rising like they've been rising, those are warning signs.

there are some others that are more positive, but they're definitely of concern. if you keep too tight for too long, you will have a problem on the employment side of the fed's mandate. >> so a recession for you, is it off the table? >> no. look, you've seen the table at the fmoc meetings. >> i know. >> everything is always on the table. there's a possibility of recession. the last gdp growth number was higher than expected so that was one of the bright spots. you've always got to worry about every contingency. that's the job of the central banker. >> i want to ask you as well about what's happening with what people pay at the grocery store. the san francisco fed found that corporate markups, what some might call price gouging, are not a primary contributor to inflation. do you're con mk -- your econom

agree? >> this has turned into a campaign election battleground so i'm not -- >> i'm not asking a political question. >> i'm not going to get into that. i think it's worth remembering that there are dynamics at play, that is over time wages tend to move slower than prices. so if some shock hits, prices go up, then wages go up. then prices come down, then wages come down. so if you look at any given moment, that markup, sort of the difference between what's happening to prices and what's happening to costs, that can vary a lot over the business cycle. so i just caution everybody over concluding from any one oservation about markups. >> are tariffs inflationary? >> it sounds funny to say it depends what you mean by inflationary. tariffs raise prices, but in terms of something that --

inflationary is about the rate of growth of prices. a one-time increase in costs will raise prices but is not an extended inflationary thing. so whether you want to call that inflationary or not, they raise costs and they raise prices. >> austan goolsbee, we want your perspective as one of the top economists in the country. i know you left politics behind and i've made you a little bit uncomfortable by asking you some of these questions, but we want a bottom line. >> you are the smartet in the business, margaret. any time you want to talk fed mandate, inflation or employment, i'm always -- i'm always up for it. >> all right. austan goolsbee, thank you for your time. we'll be back in a moment.

fentanyl and other so-called synthetic opioids are the main the main driver behind overdose deaths in the united states according to the cdc. in in light of the recent death factor, overdose of ketamine can be used in a therapeutic setting. joining us now to discuss it all

is the head of the drug enforcement administration, anne milgram. she's in new york this morning. welcome back, administrator. >> thank you for having me. >> so you just had these arrests this week. as we outlined, ketamine is anesthetic, but it can be used to treat depression at times. when you announced these charges, you said this was a case of where substance abuse began in a doctor's office and then it ended up in the street. how common is the abuse of ketamine now? >> that's right, margaret. so in the case of matthew perry's death, we announced charges against the five individuals who we believe are responsible for that. again, what happened there is it started with two unscrupulous doctors who were violating really, we charge violating their oath, which is to take care of their patients. instead supplying matthew perry

with enormous quantities of ketamine in exchange for huge amounts of money and then it switched to the street where matthew perry was buying the ketamine from two drug traffickers on the streets of los angeles. this unfortunately is a tragic story we have seen going back to the beginning of the opioid epidemic where many americans became addicted to controlled substances in doctor's offices and it turned into street addiction as well. >> well, exactly to that point. it sounds a bit like the beginning of the opioid crisis. we were talking about pill nodes. now you are seeing ketamine clinics pop up and claim to be treatment for depression and other things. do they need to be more regulated? how do you get your arms around this? >> so one of the things that's important to recognize, ketamine is a controlled substance.

it has a high potential for addiction and other challenges. the fda regulates it. they have approved it as anesthesia. they have approved it through national spray for depression. at dea what we're focused on, we're focused on doctors, nurse practitioners, anyone who is essentially dye verting legitimate controlled substances from the normal medical practice to do what we saw happening here where doctors were not evaluating matthew perry, they were not supervising injections, they were leaving behind viles of ketamine for matthew perry to be injected by his assistant. so, again, we're focused on the controlled substance side but we every single day are targeting and investigating doctors, nurse practitioners, others who are violating this duty of trust to their patients by over prescribing medicine or prescribing medicine that isn't

necessary and here again what we've alleged is that these doctors were seeking a huge payout from matthew perry. they charged him around $50,000 over the course of one month to supply ketamine. >> fentanyl is also used in medical settings, but it also happens to be the leading cause of death for americans between the ages of 18 and 45 according to the dea. that is a stunning statistic. we have heard a lot about this on the campaign trail. we have heard president biden talk about sanctioning, you know, chinese entities, about charges against mexican cartels doing business with chinese groups and yet we are still hearing about a high degree of overdoses due to fentanyl. why is it so hard to crack down on? >> so, margaret, you're right in pointing this out, that in 2022 we lost 107,941 american lives

to fentanyl and methamphetamine. this is a tragic, tragic situation we're facing where fentanyl is widespread in every single community across the united states from coast to coast and everywhere in between. and what we are seeing is that the cost much manufacturing fentanyl for the two cartels in mexico that are responsible is pennies. so this is the cheapest drug we have ever faced and the only limit on the amount of drugs that can be made are the chemicals that are being sourced by the cartels from china and essentially the production which, again, costs pennies for these two cartels to make. so we are fighting what i would argue is the greatest threat in narcotics we've ever faced. at dea we're focused on saving american lives. one of the core ways we're doing that is working across their entire network. both of those cartels are operating in more than 50 countries around the globe and we're targeting every part of

the global supply chain to the mexican cartel leaders, manufacturers, to the people that are selling drugs in the united states on behalf of the cartels and then the money launderers that are working for the cartels. in 2023 we took action across that entire network. we'll do the same in 2024. we have a strategic plan we're working to take apart the networks. we're starting to see progress bru there is a lot of work to be done because of how addictive fentanyl is, how tiny quantities can kill someone. for the first time cartels are hiding fentanyl in other drugs. they're making them look like real prescription medicines which are all fentanyl and filler. this has dramatically changed the landscape that we've pivoted to address and take head on. every day we are trying to save lives. >> mexico's president has said he won't fight the mexican drug cartels.

his slogan is hugs not bullets. the new incoming president gets sworn in october 1st has said she'll follow the policies of her predecessor. that's going to be a big problem for your enforcement, isn't it? >> so we have to work across the globe to stop the threat, to stop americans from dieing. so, again, we're focused on we've made a number of criminal charges in china. we've also gun since last november when president biden met with president xi, we started to have engagements again. we've re-engaged with the chinese ministry of public security. recently we took down a case in los angeles where we showed a chinese money laundering organization was working with one of the cartels. in china they made an arrest and in mexico they made an arrest. it's that kind of work together that will help us have an impact. >> we'll track your progress. we'll be right back.

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