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tv   BBC News The Context  PBS  December 1, 2023 5:00pm-5:31pm PST

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♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... woman: architect. bee keeper. mentor. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned.
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george: actuallyyou don't need vision to do most things in life. it's exciting to be part of a team driving the technology forward. i think that's the most rewarding thing. people who know, know bdo. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. announcer: and now, "bbc news". ♪ christian: hello. i'm christian fraser, and this is "the context." >> it's also important to understand why the pause came to an end. it came to an end because of hamas. >> the cease-fire well and truly over. israel is blaming hamas for all
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this, saying it fired rockets early this morning and refused to release all the women it is all the. -- holding. >> having chosen to hold onto our women, hamas will take the mother of all thumpings. >> seeing black smoke coming out of buildings, looking out of the rubble of some of the building. christian: you have been warned -- israel dropped leaflets in parts of southern gaza instructing residents to evacuate as hostilities resume. more than 170 people have been killed, say hamas, in the first 12 hours of the bombardment. we will get the response of the israeli government tonight. why the negotiations collapsed. also tonight, charles iii addresses the cop summit i dubai in a tie sporting greek
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flags. how the approach to climate change device number 10 in the palace. an george santos make history, expelled from the u.s. house of representatives, only the six-member in history to be thrown out. good evening. the u.s. secretary state antony blinken says the seven-date truce in gaza came to an end because hamas renege on commitments it had made. the idf resumed bombing this morning and has struck more than 200 targets in the territory. the hamas-run health ministry says 170 people were killed. this is a map that was published today by the israeli military showing the evacuation zones in the gaza strip. the map, labeled in arabic, is available on the idf's website it divides the densely populated strip into hundreds of
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numbered sectors. but there are grave concerns that information will be slow to reach people in some of these areas, particularly during blackouts, not to mention how difficult it is to move while under constant bombardment. because these israeli airstrikes are no longer restricted to gaza's north, there have been repeated attacks in the south where the focus has now shifted. and then there is the aid. the trucks that have already been checked were stopped from crossing today. there are hundreds of still lined up on the egyptian side of the rafah crossing carrying those supplies that are still badly needed. her senior international correspondent orla guerin reports just across the border from gaza. orla: gaza awoke to this, a new day of israeli bombing. skies darkened by ash a debris. in rafah, survivors snatched from the rubble. a baby brought out a life-- al
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ive. but palestinians as 12 members of one family were killed here in their own home. frenzy to deking with barehands -- frenzied digging with barehands talking grief all around. israel says it is striking hamas in its strongholds. tell that to her. she says they were sleeping and woke to the sound of a strike. "we didn't know where it was," she says. we ran to see, and it was our home. from southern israel, we could see and hear the return to battle. the view now from inside gaza is of black smoke on the horizon. the cease-fire well and truly over.
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israel is blaming hamas for all this, saying it fired rockets early this morning and refused to release all the women it's holding once again inside gaza, there is war. and more than 2 million palestinians are trapped. with israel promising to hit hard. >> having chosen to hold onto our women, hamas will now take the mother of all thumpings. as of now, after hamas violated the framework for a pause in the fighting, hostilities have resumed in the idf has resumed combat against the hamas army of cover in the gaz strip. orla: but they are mourning a civilian. he leaves behind four children. ahmed says a last goodbye and tries to keep the flies away.
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then his brothers take their turn. the family told the bbc he was killed when israel bombed their apartment block. his mother told him his daddy is going to heaven. as gazan civilians suffer once again, hamas says it offered to extend the truce and release more hostages, but israel refused. america says israel must do more this time to avoid civilian casualties. orla guerin, bbc news, on the israel-gaza border. christian: a senior advisor to the israeli prime minister's with us tonight. thank you for giving us your time again. can we start with the negotiations? we've got the family of a
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hostage will be coming on the program tonight. how would you ask plane to him what happened a lot -- how would you explain to him what happened last night and why the israeli government was not prepared to give this another 24, 48 hours? >> i think our position was clear. we were willing to continue with the pause in the operation so as to facilitate the release of one hostages. we were prepared for an extension. unfortunately, hamas was not, and not only did they fail to deliver what they were supposed to do under the understandings that were brokered with the united states, with egypt, with qatar, not only did they fail to do so, they opened fire on israel, sending rockets from gaza into the communities around the gaza strip. if that is not a declaration of war, i don't know what is. christian: i understand the negotiations continue in qatar. how quickly could another pause,? the u.s. is suggesting it could come as early as this evening. what other prospects are likely
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of the truce being resumed? >> i can't comment because i don't know. all i can say is the following -- hamas had the opportunity. we would have had a pause today had they released hostages. my understanding is they have close to 20 women they could have released in the framework of the existing agreement. yet they chose not to do so. christian: are those women civilians or with they be classed as idf soldiers? >> i think some of them are women in their 20's, and so they are civilians, they are after their army service. hamas says anyone of military age is still a soldier. christian: right. the secretary of state's been very clear that this phase has to be carried out different to the war that was waged in the north, and their -- there we see talk of the mother of all thumpings coming for hamas.
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170 killed in just 12 hours. is that the sort of restraint promised to secretary blake and yesterday? >> it's important, our spokesman said very strongly this is against hamas. we will hit hamas and we will hit hamas hard, will endlessly. but we also as the spokesperson said will differentiate between civilians, who are not the target of our operation, and hamas terrorists. that is why if we talk about the operation in the south, we have leafletted and sent messages in other ways to particular neighborhoods -- not the entire city -- but where we do know there will be israeli combat, will there will the operations by the idf, we have asked civilians to leave those particular areas because we don't want to see them caught up in the crossfire. christian: but he would be aware, from belief that i have seen, there is a qr code which directs people to this idf website. you would be aware that because
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of the problems with electricity and connectivity that information might not get to the people thaneed it. are you prepared to give people the time to move and clear instructions not just online so that they know what they are supposed to do? >> so, as you know, we have sent messages in a variety of ways -- phone calls, leaflet dropping, technology, radio and television broadcasts. and the truth is in the north, which we've been criticized for, we gave people three weeks warning before the ground incursion started. and so we take very seriously the international law which says you have to differentiate between your enemy -- in this case the vicious killers of hamas -- and the civilian population, who we want out of combat zones to safeguard them. we've designated in the southern part of the gaza strip, i've seen the maps.
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so have the americans, they have cast them onto the united nations and others, specific zones where people can go and be out of harm's way. christian: how long do you think you have got for this second stage of the conflict? there are briefings coming out of washington tonight that secretary blinken told the cabinet they've got weeks, not months to finish this. >> so, it will take as long as we need because we have to finish the job. the goal is returning all the hostages, destroying hamas's military machine, and creating a new situation in gaza where never again will israel be attacked like we were on october 7. you'veot to understand, if this isn't done properly, we will be back to square one and you will be interviewing the a year from now about another r in gaza. no, we don't want that situation. we want a situation where gaza is demilitarized and the people of gaza get a better government than this hamas regime that has been terrible for them, first
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and foremost. christian: but you would be aware that there are plenty of people, military analysts, people who are familiar with insurgency, who say it will be impossible to completely eliminate hamas, not to mention the psychology of hamas, which will be supported by many, many people in gaza. i just wonder if the strategy will have to change at some point. might the israeli government be prepared to consider what hamas was saying to the bbc today, that they would be prepared to talk about hostages in return of all the hostages -- all the hostages in return for a total cease-fire? is that something the israeli government might be forced to consider? >> no, but that would leave hamas in power in the gaza strip, and that is acceptable. hamas leaders themselves -- i don't know if they said it to you today in their interview, but hamas has repeatedly said, their leaders have said they would do october 7 again and again and again if given the
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opportunity, if they had the capability. so, we have to deny them the capability cld there is no -- we have to deny them the capability. there is no peace and coexistence with hamas because they are dedicated to killing and returning israelis. again, they've said they would do it again, not me. we have to find a situation without hamas in the gaza strip, and ultimately that would be good -- i say again for the people of gaza who deserve better than this terrible regime that has brought them only poverty and bloodshed. christian: one last question -- u would be aware of the reports and "the new york times" and "ha'aretz" about the documents given to the israelis that the israelis had in their hands which could be much set out the entire plan, and it was almost done to the letter by hamas on october 7. that plan was supposedly handed to a colonel within the gaza division and subsequent to that, there were reports that hamas
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were carrying out training exercises that were in line with the documents you had. i mean, that seems to me like an enormous failure of intelligence. are those documents going to be part of the inquiry, whenever that comes? mark: of course could chri, you are 100% correct when he said this was an enormous failure. october 7 was a terrible, horrific day for israel, and we paid for our failure with the blood of our people. that is the bottom line. christian: how do you explain that, mark? it is a little like the inquiry into 9/11, that the intelligence was there, the intelligence community knew about it, they just didn't put everything together. why do you think it was a failure? mark: from israelis' perspective it was like yom kippur in 1973 when they took us by surprise as well. it is clear there was a failure, and like in 1973, when the war is over, i'm sure there will be
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a commissionf inquiry, maybe set up under, as we did then, under supreme court justice. we could do parlientary inquiries, questions will be asked. we have to get to the bottom of this. christian, we don't want this to happen again. that is the bottom line. we have always prided ourselves in israel on having very, very good intelligence. yet we have had this whole big mishap, which as i said a moment ago cost us too much blood. we want to get to the bottom of this. we have to learn the lessons that need to be learned. christian: thank you for answering our questions this evening. could evita come on. -- good of you to come on. mark: my pleasure, thank you for having me. christian: u.s. secretary of state antony blinken was in jerusalem for talks with the war cabinet and related washington's ground rules for the second phase of the conflict. he told her the israeli government it must avoid further masters placements of palestinians and damage to critical infrastructure. speaking to reporters at the airport in dubai, mr. blinken
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was asked about that report in "the new york times" that we just discussed that israeli authorities were aware hamas was planning a major assault, and this was his response. sec. blinken: there is going to be plenty of opportunity for a full accounting of what happened on october 7. we will look back and see what happened, who knew what when, and israel has been very clear about that. right now the focus is on making sure that they do everything possible to make sure it doesn't happen again, make sure that civilians are protected, make sure -- and also to make sure what happens once this conflict is over, what happens in gaza -- we are focused on all of that. i think there will be time, and i know this will happen, there will be accountability, looking at what led up to october 7.
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christian: -- on the runway in dubai -- apologies for the sound quality on the clip. let's speak to lieutenant general mark schwartz, former u.s. sec. coordinator for israel and palestine authority. thank you for coming on the program. u.s. officials, it seems to me, are trying to press the israelis to scope and shape their operations in the south. what might that look like? >> christian, good to be with you this evening. i think the establishment or the evacuation zones that you discussed earlier on the program are certainly part of it. that did not exist when the ground offensive started. there is this direction from the idf, this mass movement of palestinian civilians to move from northern gaza, gaza city, down to rafa and some of the other surrounding areas. now we have the opportunity, it sounds like, the idf has created these safe accusations owns so that this mass migration isn't
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realistic, given the preponderance of the population is already in southern gaza. it is way too early to tell if it will be effective. the challenges that you mentioned about the lack of cellular communications, just even if things were completely working properly for communications, it is people getting the word well enough in advance. i think it is the right to ste -- step in the right direction, certainly. and the other part is more precise use of aial weapons or missiles that are being fired in. but again, we saw over the last 12 hours over 200 strikes took place. that doesn't necessarily ring out as being precise, in my view. i was kind of surprised by that government. -- by that bombardment. christian: well, that's interesting. i think u.s. officials mechanized they are in a tight
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spot because the royalties and their allies the region see they are providing the weaponry for this type of killing. i'm wondering how much longer -- i was asking mark how much longer they have gone. how much longer by the u.s. administtion be prepared to give them? lt. gen. schwartz: this is event-driven, and the event is the elimination of hamas's military cap ability, and using the term loosely, their ability to govern gaza. that is a shared objective. so that event is going to take months, it is not going to take weeks. so, that is how i read the situation right now in terms of timing. christian: how much leverage do you think the administration has over the israeli government? and why do you think they are not talking about conditioning the aid or putting conditions on what weapons they sent to the israelis? lt. gen. schwartz: well, i think
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there is a significant influence. they are our strongest ally in the region, one of our august allies globally, for that matter -- one of our strongest allies obally, for that matter. but i think there is a strong realization based on our own experience in the united states, having dealt with al qaeda, havi dealt with isis, having dealt with other terrorist organizations, we share the same view of hamas and the same characterization of hamas, as we do many of the iranian proxies that exist around the middle east. and the status quo clearly after october 7 is on inseparable -- is unacceptable. and i believe there would be ongoing discussions that if we get to the point where negotiations that are still ongoing in qatar could allow for the release of additional hostages, i think we will take advantage of that opportunity and the israelis will to get more israeli and international hostages that are being held to
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include the united states throughout the course of this campaign. but i don't think that changes the end state of illuminating hamas's military capability in gaza and governing body. christian: that is certainly the message is still coming from the whit house. lieutenant general mark schwartz, thank you for coming on. lt. gen. schwartz: thank you, have a good evening. christian: around the world and across the u.k., this is bbc news. for our u.k. viewers, let's look at the other stores making headlines. west midland's police say the violence seen before the game last night was unprecedented. four police officers were hurt in clashes with fans. one officer was hit by a flare and suffered a concussion. police say the visiting polish club failed to provide enough tickets for their fans. premier league side launched a for appeal against a decision to dock them 10 points for rule breaches. an appeal board will be appointed to hear the case, which should conclude by the end
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of the season. temperatures could drop as low as -10 tonight with morning for snow and ice in place for eastern england and also parts of scotland overnight. the cold snap has already brought snow to some parts of the country, causing disruption on the roads and some school closures. last night was the coldest night of the year since mid-march. you are live with bbc news. more than 100 hostages held in the gaza strip have been released since they were taken across the border on october 7. in return, israel has released 240 palestinian prisoners, all of them women and children. there are photos of some of the eight hostages released by hamas on thursday being reunited with their families. but remember, there are perhaps another 140 who remain in gaza. you can imagine what a roller coaster of emotions this past
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week has been for those whose loved ones were not on any list. agony for them as the hostilities resumed today. we've invited back onto the program so when we spoke to a week ago. his brother-in-law and other family members were among those kidnapped from a kibbutz. he is also a former captain in the israeli defense force. thank you veryuch for joining us. did you get any information on your family members over the past seven days? >> yes, we did receive information last week about my brother-in-law. he is back with family members -- my sister and two baby nieces avoided the same fate, having been rescued by the idf before being taken. he was confirmed to be alive as of last weekend. that is for a specific timestamp. it's been a week now.
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six israeli hostages were killed in captivity. as you describe well, we are in an emotional roller coaster. joyful for those who returned but incomplete anxiety and agony of our loved ones who are still in captivity. christian: i don't know if you heard our interview with mark regev, but i asked himn your behalf why the government wasn't prepared to give another 24, 48 hours. do you think there has been enough patients the part of the war cabinet? moshe: i've been following the news just like any other citizen of israel, anybody else who watches from other parts of the world. i don't know exactly the discussions that are taking place inside the war cabinet. i do know that early in the morning, hamas violated the humanitarian pause. i don't know what is the background to that. i do want to urge all the
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parties to make sure tha the issue of the hostages remains on the top of their agenda, because resuming fighting might endanger their life. i hope israel and its partners will continue to do everything they can to ensure all the paths are being taken before resuming full-scale operation. and if a full skill operation is needed to release the hostages, well, that is the decision of the elected officials. we will make sure to scrutinize that when elections come after the war. christian: i've only got a minute left. i wanted to mention something that caught my eye, and that is one of your friends who went to the liverpool game recently with a banner calling for omri to be released. he was thrown out of the ground? mosh: yes, omri is a liverpool fan. i don't accused him of bad taste.
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but he is a good friend. went yesterday and had the banner on. some other supporters were supporting him there, but he was thrown out of the ground. the banner had no israeli flag, no political statement besides "omri is being taken hostage in gaza and we call for his release." shocking and disappointing for us. christian: we will maybe try to get a response from liverpool to that. listen, moshe, thank you for coming on. our th narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: financial services firm, raymond james. man: bdo. accountants and advisors. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. anby judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs.
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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ narratorfunding for this presentation of this program is provided by... woman: architect. bee keeper. mentor. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned.

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