wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. now you won't miss a thing. this is the way. the xfinity 10g network. made for streaming. geoff: good evening. i'm geoff bennett. amna: and i'm amna nawaz. on the “newshour” tonight, israel intensifies its strikes in southern gaza, and calls to hold hamas accountable for alleged sexual violence grow louder. geoff: a top ukrainian official

in charge of weapons production makes the case for why u.s. support is critical to the fight against russia's invasion. >> we are working hard to ramp up local production but we never would be able to cover the need of our armed forces alone because again, in such a war, no single nation can withstand alone. amna: and republican candidates for president sharpen their attacks on each other after frontrunner donald trump refuses to show for a fourth straight debate. ♪ >> major funding for the "pbs newshour" has been provided by. >> pediatric surgeon. volunteer. topiary artist. a raymondjames financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well-planned.

>> the kendeda fund, committed to advancing restorative justice and meaningful work through investments in transformative leaders and ideas. more at kendedafund.org. carnegie corporation of new york, supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security, at carnegie.org. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions.

this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. amna: welcome to the "newshour." the top united nations humanitarian official says the delivery of food, water, and other aid to gaza is not nearly enough, and not arriving quickly enough for the almost two million people in need. geoff: arab and muslim nations are calling for a u.n. security council vote tomorrow demanding a ceasefire. meantime, israel pressed its offensive in southern gaza, and its pursuit of top hamas leaders there, as the war marked two months today since the terror attacks of october 7. one of the last places left in gaza, where civilians were told they'd be safe, last night, went up in flames. israel bombarded rafah after claiming militants launched a barrage of rockets from the so-called safe zone. families, children, seeking

refuge in apartment buildings, caught in the crossfire. by daybreak, those who survived were still clearing through the rubble. >> it was a direct hit. people were walking on the street. there was no warning. we didn't see anything except for that strike on our homes. geoff: after waves of displacement, these gazans are now crammed into a tiny sliver of land along the egyptian border. the u.n. says the population in rafah has jumped from 280,000 to 470,000, with more expected to come. in a rare invocation, u.n. secretary general antonio guterres urged the security council to demand a cease-fire, on the grounds of international peace and security. the u.s., however, would likely block any such move. secretary of state antony blinken urged israeli officials today to minimize civilian casualties in gaza. >> we continue to recognize the extraordinary difficulty of this task, as israel is dealing with a terrorist adversary that

intentionally embeds itself with civilians. but, again, israel has an obligation to do everything possible to put a premium on protecting civilians and maximizing humanitarian assistance. geoff: israel's military released new video, claiming to show another weapons depot hidden in civilian areas. and this idf video shows dozens of men detained by israeli troops and stripped, in northern gaza. it's unclear whether or not any of them were affiliated with hamas or islamic jihad. speaking with soldiers today, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu issued a threat, this time, to militant groups in lebanon. >> if hezbollah chooses to start an all-out war, then it will single-handedly turn beirut and south lebanon, not far from here, into gaza. geoff: as israel's campaign against hamas lurches forward, conditions are getting more dire in every pocket of the gaza strip.

in jabalia, to the north, panic, as the sound of shelling reverberates through the streets. in maghazi, in central gaza, young men dig through the wreckage of an airstrike, concrete mixed with human remains. >> they bombed the area without warning. the smell was absolutely horrible. looking at the dead people was a very hard scene. this is a crime. geoff: and in khan younis, where fighting is among the fiercest, hospitals understaffed and overwhelmed are flooded with the most vulnerable. today, world health organization officials said the health infrastructure in gaza is quote, on its knees. back at rafah, trucks carrying humanitarian aid roll through the border crossing each day but the flow is not nearly enough. negotiations to open a second access point are showing signs of promise the un's aid chief said today, which would be a massive logistical boost.

>> if we get that, well, it would be the first miracle we've seen for some weeks. it doesn't mean to say that it will solve the security problems that of course i have spoken about, but it will change the nature of humanitarian access. geoff: meanwhile, in tel aviv, israelis gathered downtown for a solemn first night of hanukkah. the menorah, behind a row of candles, one for each hostage captured by hamas and other armed groups two months ago. amna: in the day's other headlines, the u.s. military formally began a full-scale investigation of its v-22 ospreys after grounding all of the tilt-rotor aircraft. one had crashed off japan last week, killing eight americans.

today, pentagon officials would not say -- directly -- if they still have full confidence in the osprey. >> we've seen this done before with other platforms, out of an abundance of caution there will always be an inherent risk in military aviation. and to mitigate that risk, we will continue to maintain the high level of operational standardization for all of our pilots and for all of the crew. amna: ospreys can take off like a helicopter and fly like a plane. they've been in service since 2007, but more than 50 troops have died in crashes over the years. the university of nevada, las vegas now says the victims in wednesday's shooting attack were faculty members, not students. three were killed, and one wounded. police say the suspect was a former professor who'd been rejected for jobs and had a list of targets at unlv and at east carolina university in north carolina where he had worked before. the assault began at midday at the university's business school. it ended in the gunman's death after a shootout with police.

the last of three palestinian students who were shot in vermont has been released from a hospital. hisham awartani was left paralyzed from the chest down in last month's attack. supporters cheered and clapped as he was discharged on wednesday. he'll undergo rehabilitation, but his family says the paralysis could be permanent. the accused gunman is being held for attempted murder. the house has censured democrat jamaal bowman for pulling a fire alarm while congress was in session. he said he was trying to get through a locked door, and he later pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. republicans say he was trying to stall a government funding bill. a handful of democrats supported the republican censure resolution today. it has no practical effect. former president trump was back in court today to hear a key defense witness in his civil fraud trial in new york. he listened as an accounting professor testified that trump organization financial statements showed no evidence of fraud. mr. trump is scheduled to take the stand himself on monday.

five frail survivors of the pearl harbor attack returned to hawaii today, 82 years since the attack that catapulted the united states into world war ii. japan's surprise aerial assault on decemr 7, 1941 killed more than 2300 american servicemen. today, the number who survived is rapidly shrinking, and the national park service says it's a loss to history. >> we can share very solid and factual information. but those that experienced it, their stories and the reality of their feelings and their impressions just bring a certain power, an element of the real human touch. amna: more than 1100 of those killed in the attack were on the battleship arizona when it exploded and sank. today, only one member of the arizona's crew is still alive, at the age of 102. the movie about creating the

atomic bombs that the u.s. dropped on japan will show in theaters there, after all. a japanese distribution company announced that today, after months of heated debate over releasing the film. "oppenheimer" debuted in most of the world last july. and on wall street, tech stocks helped snap the market's three-day losing streak. the dow jones industrial average gained 63 points to close at 36,117. the nasdaq rose 193 points. and the s&p 500 added 36. still to come on the "newshour," a texas judge allows an emergency abortion despite a statewide ban. liz cheney gives her firsthand account of january 6 in her new book. plus much more. >> this is the "pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university.

geoff: a united nations commission is investigating potential war crimes on both sides of the israel-hamas war. but the u.n. agency dedicated to gender equality has been sharply criticized for waiting until this month to express alarm over sexual violence that appears to have been perpetrated during the october 7 hamas attacks. special correspondent leila molana-allen reports on the realities of that day, which are becoming increasingly clear. and a warning, the accounts are vivid and disturbing. leila: raped, repeatedly. mutilated. murdered. at least 300 women were killed by hamas terrorists on october 7. but israeli activists say the brutal sexual violence they endured has been ignored. >> it's too little, too late. leila: moran zer katzenstein led protests outside the u.n. this week.

>> rape is rape. rape is not resistance. we're talking about women's bodies. and it's not political. leila: after dancing through the night, they faced death at dawn. the bodies of dozens of young women were found at the site of the nova music festival in southern israel. many, say eyewitnesses, bore the scars of sexual atrocities. one video shows a young woman burned alive, her legs spread apart. combat medic daniel elbo arama and his team rushed to the scene to help as they began to realize what was happening. hiding near the site, a young woman begged the soldiers for help. >> she was wearing only her bra. it was cut, not fully there, and only underwear with a lot of blood. i got to her inside an ambulance and i told her, hi, ma'am, i'm so sorry, but i'm the only one

that can treat you. we don't have females here. and she held my hands and said, do whatever you need. i want to live. leila: daniel has worked in emergency response for 20 years, much of it in conflict situations. but what he saw that day will never leave him. >> she told me that she was raped by four terrorists and she was bleeding so much that they had to give her plasma and tk, tk. those medications are usually given to a person that was shot. she got to a hospital and she had to undergo a surgery for a few hours just to fix everything that happened to her in the inside of your body. leila: israeli officials say they have collected more than 1000 testimonies of sexual atrocities inlcuding gang rape, and the mutilation of womens' bodies both before and after they were murdered. hamas denies the claims. the task of collecting the bodies, and physical evidence fell in part to volunteers like nachman dickstein, who gather jewish remains for burial. >> the smell from the dead, smell of the burnt people like

it's something that stay with us. leila: the condition of the desecrated female bodies he found in kibbutz be'eri stills haunts him. >> one lady, she was naked in the bed, tied the hands. a second one also was tied in the hands, but she was without her head. leila: at a hastily-erected temporary morgue on a military base outside tel aviv, forensics teams have spent the past two months piecing together and attempting to identify shattered and burned human remains. ruth halperin-kaddari has spent a lifetime working to stop violence against women. >> i went to that morgue, that temporary morgue. there were so many victims, so many bodies, so many pieces of bodies, that trying to collect sexual evidence has been incredibly difficult. the other challenge here, there's very little in the way of first-hand testimony.

what are the challenge is there in terms of gathering evidence and moving forward to any form of prosecution or justice? >> it's actually unthinkable that by murdering, and thus silencing forever the victims, their seeking justice for them would also be stopped in that way. we have evidence of bodies that all exhibit the same pattern of mutilation and signs of sexual assault. and we have numerous footage and photographs and testimonies from first responders. leila: for halperin-kaddari, the u.n. and other international organizations have wholly failed in their response. >> by keeping silent so long, the message that was sent here

to the whole world is a very concerning one. some people, these kinds of acts of crimes of cruelty could actually be viewed as a legitimate resistance. and perhaps for others, this conduct could go unaccounted for. leila: as the eyes of the world focus on the mounting death count in gaza, moran says she and other israeli women feel betrayed, their suffering sidelined. now, she hopes their voices will finally be heard. >> the most important thing is that women everywhere need to understand hamas and the palestinian are not the same thing. and hamas raped, tortured, kidnaped women. and if you are with women, you need to speak up for women. leila: for the "pbs newshour," i'm leila molana-allen. ♪

amna: the united states signed an agreement with ukraine this week to accelerate the co-production of ukrainian weapons. but there's a long way to go before ukraine has enough domestic armaments to fight the russian military on its own. here's nick schifrin. nick: the biden administration is struggling to get congressional approval for a $60 billion aid package for ukraine, half of which would be for weapons sent to ukraine, and to replenish u.s. stockpiles. but long term, both washington and kyiv want ukraine to produce their own weapons, as president zelensky's chief of staff andriy yermak, and secretary of defense austin, said this week at a washington summit. >> ukraine cannot and will not depend on foreign providers of military aid. we must take care of our own

defense capability. we have our own weapons to be proud of. >> that will mean strengthening ukraine's defense industrial base. both to maintain ukraine's current war effort and to bolster ukraine's national strength and deterrence long into the future. nick: the ukrainian minister in charge of ukraine's domestic arms production effort is alexander kimyshin and he joins me now. thank you very much. a pleasure to have you on the "newshour." as i started by saying there is an effort right now in washington here to continue the funding for ukraine or get into the domestic arms production in a but in general, how important second. is u.s. aid to ukraine going forward? alexander: nick, actually, we withstand in the greatest war of generations.

for all of the 652 days only because of the bravery of our people and because we still got the support from u.s. and other partner nations. we are working hard to ramp up local production, but we never would be able to cover the need of our armed forces alone because, again, in such a war, no single nation can withstand alone. so i'm sure that we will get their approval and get the aid. nick: the agreement you've signed here in washington this week promises co-production of weapons and technology sharing. so what does that mean and how vital is that long term? alexander: for last two days, we are having a conference, defense m---- for u.s. companies it is a great opportunity. nick: you are trying to attract american and also european companies to ukraine. that makes sense of course. ukraine needs it. but why does it make sense for american businesses to invest in ukraine while the war is going on? alexander: ukraine gives an

opportunity to shorten the innovation cycle. we've proved that we can be good in defense tech and something that lessons learned from our defense tech would be important for the u.s.. and to second point, we've got great engineers. that's something you're going to find if you start your local production in ukraine. and third point, it's a great opportunity to test your weapon and ammunition in the greatest war of generations and to make it better. nick: i think that everyone here in washington and everyone in key would agree this is a great idea and sounds great. but how long will it take? alexander: building defense industry takes years. everyone knows that. we got some quick wins. and frankensam portfolio of projects. i we call it. nick: frankensams, it's a combination of different air defenses from the united states, from europe, kind of frankensteined together into ukraine. alexander: definitely. and that's something that we already have on the ground on

the battlefield in ukraine. that's something where u.s. defense industries, ukrainian defense industry, work together together with u.s. and ukrainian armed forces. and finally, we get our fast solution, as we call it, do it yourself, your defense, that already works. nick: it seems like one of the priorities that analysts i speak to say is that ukraine needs to be able to attack inside russia, try and bring the fight to russia, whether that's supply lines or even to the russian elite doorstep. how important is it that ukraine build its own long range fires that can hit russia? alexander: we already got success with the long range missiles in ukraine, but i would not speak more about that. but we also got great success with defense tech, with drones that fly as far as will reach russia already. and you've probably seen that moscow never sleeps, sochi never sleeps, and many of the russian cities would not sleep quite soon. nick: those, with all due respect, have been individual attacks. we're talking about a scale at which ukraine builds drones or long range fires that can affect russian calculus, that can actually affect how putin thinks

about the threat from ukraine. is that the goal? alexander: definitely. and ukrainian defense tech, that's something where you see how we produce drones. so it's build up in the last half year, definitely. and that's something that scales up fast enough and it's something that is already delivering. and scale will be quite soon. nick: is part of the challenge, though, that you need ukraine to mobilize for war? we see in russia, for example, factories going to three shifts a day. the russian economy has mobilized for war, but ukraine's government has not mobilized the entire country. why hasn't ukraine mobilized its entire economy like the united states did during world war ii? alexander: we are a democratic country, and meanwhile, we find a way how we can live during the war. and our economy is fully switching to the wartime economy.

and we spent every single hreivna -- that's local currency in ukraine -- we collect in the country, we spend it for the war. so it goes to all the salaries of servicemen and to the acquisition. nick: but but don't you acknowledge that the bottom line is that russia has done more to mobilize its economy than ukraine has? does kyiv need to do more to get the even the workers that you will need in these factories to make sure that they're there so the factories run 24/7? alexander: major factories in defense industry already run 24/7. and again, it's never enough. we understand that. but already now, defense industry starts work and starts running. in my previous life and the railways have been repeating. nick: you were the old railways minister, you literally kept the trains running on time. alexander: we keep running. so now we say that we start running because again, we've got strong legacy in defense

industry. and but let's be frank, it was abandoned for decades and now we start almost from the scratch. nick: minister alexander kimyshin, thank you so much. alexander: thank you. ♪ amna: a state district judge in texas has stepped in to allow a woman to terminate her pregnancy despite a statewide abortion ban. it's believed to be the first case since the u.s. supreme court overturned roe v. wade where a woman has asked a judge to approve an immediate abortion, and won. kate cox is 20 weeks pregnant and the fetus has what is considered a fatal diagnosis. if cox delivered the baby, she could endanger her ability to have another child. in her ruling, judge maya gamble said ms. cox's life, health, and fertility are currently at serious risk and that her circumstances meet the medical exception to texas's abortion bans. kate cox, the plaintiff, and molly duane, of the center for reproductive rights, join me now. welcome to you both.

kate, how are you feeling right now? kate: you know, we are taking it day by day. we are hanging in there. it is a hard time. it is a lot of grief. we are grieving the loss of a child. just taking it day by day. amna: i know there is still some uncertainty ahead. have you thought about a plant or what happens next moving forward? kate: i am hopeful after the decision this morning to have the medical care that i need here in texas. this pregnancy has been plagued with pain and suffering. i have been to the eri on three separate occasions, one of which i was transferred to another hospital. my health is at risk. my baby cannot survive. it is a medical decision. amna: i am so sorry for everything you have been through. the texas attorney general ken paxton just came out with a

statement that this judge's ruling will not, quote, insulate hospitals, doctors, or anyone from civil or criminal liability. how are you prepared to respond? molly: i would hope that everyone is shocked by that response from ken paxton. he is misrepresenting with the order from the district court said this morning and he is fear mongering in the extreme, which has been his m.o. for years in texas. the cruelty here is the point. and making it terrifying for ms. cox, for her doctor, to be able to proceed in the way that is safest and best for her health care her family, it is exactly what ken paxton is trying to do. i as an attorney, i am so thankful that ms. cox has been so brave and optimistic. because it is a hard time to be

a lawyer when you feel you can do your absolute best for the client, get a result that is just and right, and yet still face what we are talking about here. life in prison. loss of medical license. hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines, both for the physician and for ms. cox's husband who just wants to help his wife get the health care she needs so they can continue to build the family they want. and i am shocked but i am not surprised. amna: as you know there are a number of legal cases unfolding around abortion access. are there wider implications for this ruling? molly: this ruling today was just about ms. cox and whether or not she can get the health care she needs to preserve her life in her home community. but obviously these fights are playing out nationwide. what i really want people to

understand is that in the 14 states where abortion is now entirely prohibited and states like florida and arizona that have gestational bans that some people would call a compromise but clearly are not, because they would affect ms. cox's care as well, there are no exceptions under those bans. if ms. cox does not fall within the exception and what does the exception even mean? i want people to understand just how damaging abortion bans are, and to see themselves in ms. cox and her family because this could happen to anybody. my position as a citizen, as a lawyer, and as a human being is each individual's grieving process should be of their own to decide. when it comes to health care i don't want politicians in my state or anywhere else dictating what care i can get. amna: kate cox, this turned into a legal conversation.

this is your life, this is your family, this is your health. you hinted a little bit, you mentioned how difficult, how much pain you have been in the last few weeks, your trips to the emergency room several times. can you help folks understand what the last few weeks have been like for you? kate: i mean, it is hard to even put into words. it is devastating. i am very grateful for my two beautiful babies at home. but we want a third. we were so excited for this baby. she is deeply loved, deeply wanted. but unfortunately pregnancies are not all rainbows and sunshine. and it is surreal that i am navigating these complications publicly. this is a medical decision for me and for my family. and to be going through the loss and the pain, it is hard. amna: you did not have to give

an interview today, you don't have to give any interviews, but you did want to speak today. why? kate: i wanted the opportunity to tell my story. i know personally before going into this, i never imagined we would be in this position. i never imagined i would ever want or need an abortion. i think by sharing this story, you can imagine the women you love in your life and imagine they are pregnant and so happy and looking forward to the baby. and they find out that she will not survive. she will either die in my belly or i will carry her to term and have to deliver her stillborn. or as she arrives into this world, her life will be measured in minutes or hours or days, and plagued with medical devices.

she would need to be placed directly into hospice. imagine receiving that news and pairing that with the risks and complications of continuing the pregnancy and childbirth. it is overwhelming. so i wanted to share my story because i never would have thought of it before it happened to me. i just want people to hear it. amna: kate cox, thank you for joining us, thank you for sharing your story. we are thinking of you and your family. molly duane, thank you also for joining us tonight. kate: thank you. molly: thank you. ♪ geoff: last night's debate brought four gop presidential hopefuls to the university of alabama's campus for their last face-off of the year. and once again, the leading republican contender, donald trump, skipped it. laura barron lopez has this recap.

laura: in alabama, the four candidates on the debate stage largely ignored the gop presidential frontrunner they're trailing by more than 40 points. it wasn't for lack of trying by former new jersey governor chris christie. >> we're 17 minutes into this debate, and except for your little speech in the beginning, we've had these three acting as if the race is between the four of us. laura: he issued a dire warning about the stakes of electing former president donald trump a second time. >> i'm in this race because the truth needs to be spoken. he is unfit. this is a guy who just said this past week that he wants to use the department of justice to go after his enemies when he gets in there. and there is no bigger issue in this race, meghan, than donald trump. laura: instead, entrepreneur vivek ramaswamy repeated trump's lies about 2020 and embraced a racist conspiracy theory that claims white americans, at the direction of elites, democrat,s or sometimes jewish people, are being replaced by people of

color. >> that the great replacement theory is not some grand right-wing conspiracy theory, but a basic statement of the democratic party's platform, that the 2020 election was indeed stolen by big tech. laura: it's a conspiracy theory that was cited by the white men who carried out mass shootings in pittsburgh, el paso, and buffalo. and former south carolina governor nikki haley, who is gaining traction in the polls and with gop donors, confronted trump on china, but little else. >> this is where trump went wrong. trump was good on trade. but that's all he was with china, because here he allowed fentanyl to continue to come over. he continued to allow them to take. he would give them technology that would build up their military and hurt us. he allowed the chinese infiltration for them to buy up farmland, to put money in our universities, and to continue to do things that were harmful for america. laura: tied with haley for second place, florida governor ron desantis defended his past pledge to shoot undocumented

people crossing the border if they have backpacks. >> the commander in chief not only has a right, you have a responsibility to fight back against these people. >> and does that mean shooting first? >> it means you're going to categorize them as foreign terrorist organizations. laura: and spent much of his time positioning himself to the right of haley. >> nikki haley said the other day there should be no limits on legal immigration and that corporate ceo's should set the policy on that. >> that's not true. >> there needs to be limits on immigration. laura: in fact, it was haley, not trump, who came under repeated fire. >> nikki is corrupt. >> you have other candidates up here, like nikki haley, she caves any time the left comes after her. >> i love the atteion, fs. thank you for that. laura: with the iowa caucuses just 39 days away, and only two more primary debates on the calendar, candidates will blanket early states in hopes of toppling the current frontrunner. for the "pbs newshour," i'm laura barron-lopez.

♪ geoff: six top republican officials have been indicted in nevada for pledging that state's electoral votes to donald trump in 2020, as part of an illegal effort to reverse trump's loss to joe biden. these so-called fake electors include the state's republican party chairman and national committeeman. william brangham takes a deeper look. william: geoff, nevada is now the third state to bring criminal charges against false electors, following georgia and michigan. in wisconsin, another group of fake electors settled a civil lawsuit this week requiring them to admit joe biden won the presidency and that they were trying to improperly overturn that result. election law expert rick hasen is the director of the safeguarding democracy project at ucla's law school, and author

of the forthcoming book, "a real right to vote: how a constitutional amendment can safeguard american democracy." rick, great to have you back on the "newshour." can you remind us what these fake electors were actually trying to do, how they were trying to insert themselves into the elections process? rick: sure. well, you know, after people vote, there's a whole procedure that takes place where the state's results are translated into electoral college votes. there is a date that the electors made in each state. the results are then sent into congress, and those results are counted on january 6. you may remember that at the time that the 2020 election period came, when it was time for the electors votes to be cast, trump was claiming that he was actually the victor in a number of the states. what he tried to do was have republican slates of electors who were pledged to him vote on the same day, and so that these votes could then be sent in and they would potentially be counted by congress.

the problem was that there was no authorization under state law to have these republicans meet. these were all states where joe biden won and where the lawful electors were the biden electors, whose slates were actually sent to congress. and those were the ones that were ultimately counted on january 6, and then the morning of january 7, back in 2021. william: so there were there fake electors, as we call them, operating in seven different states back in 2020. we have this settlement in wisconsin, we had these charges brought in nevada. are there other similar investigations underway? rick: well, we know there are a few more states where this is going on. we don't know if there are criminal investigations. one of the things that happened was that in the georgia case, which is this sprawling rico case involving lots of defendants, including charges against the fake electors, there was a plea agreement with one of the people advising trump, a guy named chesbro, who was behind the scheme.

and he now, after pleading to crimes in georgia, is cooperating with different state officials. so they may be getting information and evidence that they didn't have before so it's possible that in other states they're considering this, and also in states where there already are prosecutions, those cases may now be stronger with that new evidence. william: so kenneth chesbro, he was one of the architects of this fake electoral scheme. and so the sense is, if he's now turning evidence in georgia, he said he will participate in all these other cases as well as part of his plea deal? rick: his lawyer said he would talk to anyone. i don't know if it's actually part of the plea deal, but it's something that he said he's willing to do. and presumably he's also willing to talk to federal prosecutors. this could become either part of the trump election interference case or part of some other cases that the doj may or may not bring. william: criminal charges are obviously meant to punish law breakers. and some of these people are not fringe actors.

i mean, in nevada, some of these are some of the top republican officials in that state who still retain their offices. do you think that these charges and these settlements in any way deter future bad actors? rick: well, i think the first thing to note is that some of these people who were electors were told that they were just doing some kind of technical backup. in case a court came in and said, trump actually won the case, then there wouldn't be some technical problem with trying to count electoral college votes from a particular state. those people might not be able to show any criminal intent. but then there are others who saw this more as a potential way to subvert the election outcomes. for those people, i think this could well be a deterrent. one of the things that happened in the wisconsin case, which was a civil case that was settled earlier this week, is that there was an admission by all of the fake electors there that joe biden had won the presidency. rather than a financial settlement, having these republican leaders publicly say

that joe biden won the election was thought to be more important for the plaintiffs than actually getting money which kind of tells you what the point of some of this is, which is to try to bolster the electoral -- people's confidence in electoral integrity, and to say that the 2020 election was done fairly and to deter people from trying things like this in 2024. william: a striking moment, we are still three years in having people certify that joe biden won the election. rick hasson at ucla law school, always good to see you. thank you so much. rick: thank you. ♪ amna: she was the number three republican in the house of representatives, voting with former president donald trump 90% of the time. but that changed for liz cheney after trump sought to overturn the results of the 2020 election. she started speaking out against his call to arms and

investigating the deadly january 6 capitol riot. it cost her her job in congress. now liz cheney is speaking out again, warning of the dangers of a potential second trump presidency in her new book "oath and honor: a memoir and a warning." thank you for joining us. there's a lot of news this week that relates directly to a lot of the events and the themes you touch on in the book. for example, former president trump saying he would be a dictator only on day one of his presidency if reelected. but this is a memoir and a warning, as you say, on the book's cover. what would another trump presidency mean for america? liz: i think that it would really have the potential to unravel the fundamental foundations of our republic. and i say that, you know, fully recognizing that it's a very serious charge to be making. but if you look at what he tried to do after the last election, he's the only president in our history who has not been willing to make sure that we had a peaceful transfer of power. he attempted to overturn the election.

he attempted to seize power. and i think that if people really want to focus on the danger that he poses, one of them is he won't abide by the rulings of our courts. and to have a president who is charged with ensuring that the laws are faithfully executed, unwilling to enforce the court rulings and willing to uphold the rule of law, that is just at the heart of what makes our democracy function. amna: do you think he would be more dangerous in a second term because he understands the system better? liz: i think he surely would, be both because he understands the system as well as because he would put people around him who are willing to help him do what he failed to do last time. and i think that's a very grave threat. amna: you document the role kevin mccarthy, in particular, played in working to overturn that 2020 election. he announced this week that he will be leaving congress at the end of the year before his term is up. he's saying that he will serve america in new ways. does his departure surprise you? liz: i suppose not. i think, though, that, you know, the lesson of the book and the

stories in the book about kevin mccarthy, who was then the leader, really focus on the extent to which individuals matter. and when you have someone who's the leader of the republican party in the house who at every moment when he had the choice to make about, is he going to do the right thing or is he going to do the politically convenient thing, he always chose politics. he always chose trump. and it's dangerous because each of those decisions, whether it's determining that you're going to vote to object to electoral votes or then, of course, after january 6, his role and responsibility in helping to bring donald trump back to rehabilitate him when leader mccarthy went down to mar-a-lago, those things all very much set us on the path that has led to where we are today, where donald trump is the leader of the republicans in the presidential primary. amna: almost three years after the january 6 attack, it's fair to say accountability and the work to hold people accountable is still very much going on with the rioters still being

prosecuted. fake electors this week indicted in nevada. another group of fake electors in wisconsin settled a lawsuit acknowledging that mr. biden did win. you talk about other people being held accountable. and i wonder, what about members of congress? do you believe there should be accountability there? and what does that look like? liz: i do, certainly. and if you look at the work of the select committee, you know, of course, we issued subpoenas for several members of congress. they all refused to comply with those subpoenas. i think jack smith has got tools that we didn't have in congress, and there are a number of members who have a lot of questions that they should be answering, people like jim jordan, kevin mccarthy. and i think if you, you know, look, for example, at someone like ronny jackson from texas, the select committee uncovered text messages that show the oath keepers, while they were invading and attacking the capitol, were communicating about how they could help ronny jackson, how they could help to facilitate getting him out. they suggested he had data that was important. specifically.re naming him liz: right, right, right. and he's the only member of congress that we are aware of that was being named specifically by the oath keepers. but those are the kinds of questions that really do need to be answered.

amna: this week, we also saw speaker mike johnson say that he would release the january 6 security tapes, but blur faces. does that kind of thing, in your view, get in the way of accountability? liz: first of all, the department of justice has those security tapes. and what we're seeing from speaker johnson at this point really seems to be sort of a suggestion that he's released everything, which, of course, he hasn't. he's only released a small part. and now he's arguing that somehow there's something in these tapes that will change the facts, that will change what we know happened that day. you know, my view is you need to make some provisions here for whatever security arrangements at the capitol could be affected. but if speaker johnson, you know, is going to tell people he's releasing the tapes, he should release the tapes. and he, of course, hasn't done that. amna: what message do you think it sends when he says we're going to blur faces? liz: i think it tells you that he's lost his way in terms of recognizing what happened that day, in terms of recognizing the

very grave constitutional threat that it posed, the threat of violence that it posed, and that he's become very consumed with trying to placate donald trump and those who support him. amna: you name some of your former colleagues in the book in terms of what they were saying privately versus what they were saying publicly. there's a story you tell about what happens in the cloak room with people signing an objection letter to the election results and you name mark greene as sighing and saying the things we do for orange jesus, referring to then-president trump. there's others that you don't name, though. you talk about one senior republican congressman who refused to speak out, you say, because of political consequences. but he says to you, liz, surviving is all that matters. and i just wonder if you think people, enablers, as you call them, should be held accountable, why not name them in the book? liz: i think that there were some people who clearly were enablers and there were others, you know, the member who talked to me about his concern for security, there were a number of

members who did that. and i think that's a different thing. i think that i understand that we certainly live in a new world in terms of the risk of political violence. i say in the book, though, although i understood very much his fear about security, you know, that i thought perhaps he needed to be in another line of work, that if you come to a point where as a member of congress, you're not willing to cast your vote the way you think you should, especially on something as important as impeachment, then you really you need to rethink both sort of where we are as a country, but also, you know, whether or not you're the right person in that position. amna: you've said that you'll do whatever it takes to make sure mr. trump is not reelected. do you believe that president biden is the best candidate to beat him if mr. trump is the nominee? liz: i think it remains to be seen. i don't think we know yet who the democrats are going to nominate. i think that we have to make sure whoever are the candidates on the playing field are the very best ones. amna: you're not sure who the democrats will nominate. liz: yeah, i think it's not clear yet. i think, you know, right now it looks like it's likely to be

president biden, but the democrats themselves don't seem united behind that. and i think it's really important. the single most important thing is that we defeat donald trump. the level of the gravity of these challenges has meant that there are considerations people are making about third parties, for example, that you probably would not have seen, you know, four years ago or eight years ago. amna: but you yourself haven't ruled out running, right? do you think you could beat him? liz: i haven't made any decisions yet about whether or not i'm going to run. and i think it really will come down to how do we have the very most effective people on the playing field in order to defeat donald trump. and that may mean that we have to work together to support other candidates and that we need to do so beyond partisanship. but i'll decide that in the next few months. amna: the cheney name occupies its own space in american history and politics. you draw the parallels between your father and his experience as vice president being evacuated from the white house. you being evacuated from the capitol. you also tell the story about

your daughter, grace, calling you crying after the january 6 attack. do you want your children to continue in this work the same way you did after your father? do they want to? liz: i have five children, and so they're very different people. but i do think that one of the things that i learned from my parents and i hope that my husband and i have been able to pass on to our kids is how important it is to be involved in something bigger than yourself and also how much of an obligation each of us has as americans not to take for granted the freedoms in which we live and to make sure we're all doing everything we can to defend those. so, i'm very proud of my children and i'm also very committed to making sure that they grow up and they get to live in an america where the peaceful transfer of power can be taken for granted once again. amna: former congresswoman liz

cheney, author of the new book "oath and honor: a memoir and a warning." thank you so much for being here. liz: thank you. great to be with you. ♪ geoff: raj jayadev is a macarthur fellow and founder of an organization which supports people who have been through by the criminal justice system. tonight, he shares his brief but spectacular take. raj: it needs the size and bulk of something large enough to challenge it. participatory defense as a community organizing model for families whose loved ones are facing charges. how they the community can be part of the legal team to change the outcome of a case and free their loved one. isolation i believe is a feature, not a bug of the criminal punishment system. it is how it forces unfair decisions. it is how it harms and breaks

people, particularly black and brown people. if that is the building blocks of that oppressive system, the way to dismantle and bring down that system is to do the opposite. to take something that feels isolating and lonely and convert the solution into something collective. ports are really just places where stories are told. the problem is that the narratives that dominate the day or almost exclusively the ones told by prosecutors and police. and so when families would go to courts, the most common thing people would say is, i wish they knew them like we know them. there is something practical, urgent, and necessary that families and communities can do, and that is to tell the fullest story of their loved ones of the court that is trying to reduce a person to a single act or single allegation, that that narrative could be overshadowed and a person could be understood through the fuller context of their lives. what that means in a practical way is families and communities

make what we call social biography packets, and social biography videos. it changes how decisions are made in the courtroom. we have been doing participatory defense since 2008. the biggest challenge we had when we started was people realizing that they could actually have impact. because everyone had been told that the courts are really only for the judges and lawyers, and if you were not a judge or a lawyer, there was really nothing he could do except bear witness to the justice. and we said actually, families and communities have knowledge and experience that can actually tangibly make the difference of someone at home or stuck in a prison cell, participatory defense is an abolitionist strategy. it is not about making the court experience smoother. it is trying to liberate and free and challenge that system so that our communities can be whole. my name is raj jayadev and this is my brief but spectacular take

on how to protect your people. geoff: and you can find more brief but spectacular videos like that one. online at pbs.org/newshour/brief. amna: also online, a look at the gateway arch in st. louis which sits on the nation's smallest national park. that is that pbs.org/newshour. geoff: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm geoff bennett. amna: and i'm amna nawaz. on behalf of the entire "newshour" team, thank you for joining us. >> major funding for the "pbs newshour" has been provided by. the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions, and friends of the "newshour," including leonard and norma klorfine, and koo and patricia yuen.

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♪ hello, everyone, and welcome to "amanpour and company." here's what's coming up. as israel intensifies its gaza offensive, the u.n. says the situation is getting worse each minute. while freed israeli hostages unleash their anger on prime minist netanyahu. i ask pea