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tv   BBC News The Context  PBS  December 8, 2023 5:00pm-5:31pm PST

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narrator: pediatric surgeon. volunteer. topiary artist. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned. brook: these are people who are trying to change the world. startups have this energy that energizes me. i'm thriving by helping others everyday. people who know, know bdo. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. announcer: and now, "bbc news". christian: hello. i'm christian fraser, and this is "the context." >> the people of god's are being
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told tomove like human bean balls--- gaza are being told to move like human pin balls, without any of the basics for survival. nowhere in gaza is safe. >> we do not support calls for an immediate cease-fire. this would only plant the seeds for the next war, because hamas has no desire to see a durable peace. >> the true path to ensure peace is only through supporting israel's mission, absolutely not to call for a cease-fire. >> when you refuse to call for a cease-fire, you are refusing to call for the only thing that can put an end to war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. christian: all eyes on the un security council this hour. the uae has called a vote on an
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immediate cease-fire in gaza. we are expecting that result shortly. it won't pass, though. the u.s. says it will be using its veto. we will get the thoughts from barack obama's former middle east peace envoy could also, the cost of rishi sunak's policies are mounting. not a single migrant has been sent to ramonda, and yet we have spent -- sent to ramonda, and yet we have spent 240 million pounds on that scheme. the biggest shakeup in world golf. jon rahm joins liv golf for a $300 million. good evening. we start in new york, where the un security council has been debating through the afternoon the situation in gaza. they are due to vote shortly on a draft resolution proposed by the united arab emirates debating an immediate cease-fire.
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it will fail because the united states will object despite the pleas of secretary-general antonio guterres, who called on the council to use all of its influence to prevent humanitarian catastrophe. with this report from our international editor jeremy bowen. jeremy: gaza is on the brink of a full-blown collapse, says the u.n. almost 2 million people have been driven from their homes by israeli forces. civil order, the u.n. warns, is breaking down. a mosque was bombed with such force that the hospital next-door was put out of action. the hospital director says gaza's health care system is being targeted systematically. israel said it launched 450 strikes in the last 24 hours. it released to these night-vision pictures without a soundtrack. the americans' repeated warnings
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that israel is killing too many civilians, it is a war crime to target civilians or harm them with indiscriminate attack. more pictures are emerging on social media of israel's round of hundreds of palestinian men it says are hamas suspects. they were ordered to leave a u.n. shelter, forced to strip to their underwear, and down before being driven to interrogation. israel has not beaten hamas in northern gaza. fighting continues in an urban wasteland. the video has been traced to israeli soldiers posting out of gaza, and since it went viral has been deleted from tiktok. the way hundreds of thousands of palestinians in gaza are being forced to live was filmed by freelance journalists working for the bbc. sheltering can attend made of plastic sheets in the grounds of a hospital in the middle area of
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gaza. gaza's people are looking into the abyss, according to the u.n. secretary-general. he has implored the security council to end the ordeal by passing a cease-fire resolution tonight. this man says he is trying to get his kids to forget the good food they used to enjoy. >> i don't know what to tell you. the only thing we have to eat is tea with no sugar. the only three words we hear from our children are "hungry, cold, thirsty." and we would rather die than see him get sick. jeremy: israel destroyed a mosque in gaza city close to an area troops are assaulting. israel once again rejected a cease-fire. jeremy bowen, bbc news, jerusalem. christian: let's speak to diplomatic correspondent paul
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adams. i want to talk first of all about a video that has been released, and i've seen your copy you just filed about a hostage she was being held, and it seems there was -- hostage who was being held, and it seems that there was an israel defense forces operation to rescue him but it doesn't seem to have gone well. what do you know? paul: two separate things, christian. first, a briefing by the israeli army's main spokesman in which he referred to a hostage rescue operation last night in which two israeli soldiers were seriously wounded. no hostage was recovered, and a number of hamas gunmen killed. he didn't give more details than that. separately, we have a video released by hamas which shows three things. first of all, a hostage -- we
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are not naming him -- speaking apparently sometime in the middle of last month and identifying himself. then some images, bloody images of the aftermath of some kind of gunbattle, lots of blood on the ground, some captured weaponry, which hamas say were captured from the israelis. finally at the end, the bloody corpse of someone who resembles -- we cannot say with any certainty -- resembles the hostage seen at the beginning of the video. we don't know too much about how that was recorded. these two separate things seem to be referring to the same incident. but the details are a little unclear, and there seems to be a degree of manipulation, i would say, about the hamas video. christian: separately, these photographs of men in their underpants kneeling on the floor blindfolded. jeremy told us that this appears to have come from footage that
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was recorded by the idf troops. what do we know about the men in the video and their whereabouts now? paul: well, the israelis say these were all men arrested, detained in two parts of the northern gaza strip where fighting is going on. areas where the israelis say they are telling everyone to leave for weeks and that consequently anyone still found there, any man of fighting age founded there, will be considered to be a suspected member of hamas. probably explains the circumstances in which they were all rounded up. we know from messages this morning that some of those people have already been released. there is one palestinian journalist whose family says he is currently being held in a military base inside israel. but this does seem to be part of an ongoing effort by the israelis to round of people in
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those key areas in the northern part of the gaza strip, figure out who they have got, interrogate people, if they are found to be hamas members you can expect them to be in jail for a good long while, and then releasing some others. it looks shocking, these people have been stripped to their underpants, they are blindfolded in some cases with their hands tied behind their backs. but it is sort of what militaries tend to do in situations like this. christian: yeah, you wouldn't take the risk with the gunmen around, i suppose. just briefly on the inteity of the attacks in the last 24 hours, 450 bombs dropped from land, sea, and air, a remarkably high number. do you sense that the israeli are in a hurrys? paul: i suspect they probably are because if you put that beside the comments we heard
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from antony blinken, the u.s. secretary of state, overnight about this disparity between israel's intention not to harm civilians and the evidence of what is actually happening on the ground, but to one side the american reluctance to endorse the resolution at the un security council, that was never going to happen. there are clear signs of american disquiet, and you are hearing people in israel saying we have got a few weeks left, and they are busily want to make maximum use of that time. they have key hamas leaders they would love to lay their hands on or kill. they want the rest of the hamas military infrastructure in the southern part of the gaza strip destroyed. i think they are conscious that time is running out, and at times like that, israel's military operations tend to intensify. christian: paul adams in jerusalem, thank you very much. let's talk about the vote at the security council. i you and -- a u.s. special
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envoy for israeli-palestinian negotiations under the obama administration, welcome to the program. secretary of state antony blinken said there is a gap between the commitments israelis made to protect civilians and the numbers dying. if that is the case, why is the united states standing in the way of a cease-fire? >> in the minds of the united states and biden administration, there is two different questions. the first is should there be a cease-fire that allows hamas to stay in place, and we have been clear we impose that. at the same time we are pushing the israelis as hard as they can to get them to allow more humanitarian assistance in and prevent civilian casualties. that is where the united states is going to be under increasing pressure to mystically and internationally to put -- domestically and internationally to put measures in place to ensure that israel complies with human terrain law. christian: the investors said cease-fire would only plant the seeds for the next war because hamas has no desire for a
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durable peace. but there are those who would quite justifiably argue that slaughter on this scale would guarantee another war, it will so further extremism and compromise the trust needed to build a durable peace. >> tt is another point the united states has been making very clearly and repeatedly. lloyd austin, r secretary of defense, has said publicly that israel risks a strategic defeat if they go about trying to eliminate hamas's military capabilities in a manner that creates more terrorists than it takes of the battlefield. that is a point we are making to the israelis. but we have a very limited amount of influence with the israelis when it comes to decisions about their military operations. they will do what they view as their self-interest regardless of what anyone else says. we start taking actions to back up our words and allowed security council resolutions to move through, do we allow congress to condition military assistance to the israelis, which is under discussion right now?
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christian: that is really interesting. can i ask you a technicality -- we are awaiting this result of the vote in the security council -- we are told that france has asked for consultations before it votes. what further with a need to know then what has already been supplied? >> well, i'm not sure what the french are up to exactly, but the vote was delayed in part because secretary blinken is meeting with saudi arabians, mr body-- emiratis, jordanians. we really don't like to be in a position of having to veto these things. we will if we have to, but we would like to avoid it. another element is the u.s. will use this as leverage to get the israelis to change their approach to the -- talking about another seven or eight weeks of this military bombardment, that is longer than the biden administration will want to keep defending them publicly, internationally and domestically. there will be a message to the israelis that we can only do this for so much longer, either
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you change your behavior or we will take tougher action against you publicly. that is the tension right now. christian: the secretary-general was pretty blunt in his assessment of what is going on in israel, in gaza at the moment. he said this is collective punishment. there will be some who will disagree with that, but there is no doubt that hundreds of thousands of people are being forced into thinner and thinner areas where they are safe. people are bound to ask in light of the casualties, 17,000 now, what is the purpose of the security council if it is not to bring a cease-fire at a moment like this. >> you know, i think that is a broader question about what role bun does play in these -- what role the u.n. does play in these conflicts going forward. i can see the united states using this as an opportunity to put as much pressure as we can on the israelis to change their behavior. the president has been clear on the humanitarian front, where
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collective punishment becomes prevalent where you talk about not allowing fuel and food and medicine in. biden was clear that there is an urgent need for more humanitarian assistance to get in. i would imagine that is a point where the israelis might be susceptible to persuasion from the united states to get around this question of collective punishment. christian: can i pick up on that -- of operated in the field of if you have operated in the field of shuttle diplomacy. the vote will be conclusive tonight and won't go through, this amendment, and there will be no cease-fire. what happens in the back channels? is there someone who then goes to the israelis and says we hav been able to fend this one off, but it is coming back to the security council quickly, you need to change, otherwise we can't support you next time around? is that how it tends to work? >> there are conversations along those lines that go on, and i think in the last couple months o at the security council we hae vetoed some resolutions.
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we allowed one resolution to go through calling for humanitarian pauses. we have demonstrated we are willing to use the tool of the u.n. where it is appropriate to advance their interests and getting the israelis to change their behavior. i imagine the message will be that this will get worse and harder for you and your campaign will not be sustainable on a global basis, especially given our domestic political issues here, unless you take a dramatically different approach. in the first instance on the humanitarian front, but also preventing civilian casualties. christian: thank you very much for coming on the program. >> thanks for having me. christian: around the world and across the u.k., you are watching bbc news. let's take a quick look at some of the stories making headlines today. the funeral of shane mcgowan has been held in ireland. actor johnny depp and the president of ireland attended the funeral service, with hundreds of mourners gathering at the grounds of the church. the singer, best known for his smash hit "fairytale of new
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york," died on the 30th of november at age 65. judges ruled the u.k. government acted lawfully in blocking scotland's gender self id reforms, making it easier for people to legally change their sex was passed last year, but the governor of westminster blocked it on the grounds that it would affect the quality roles. the legal challenge has been rejected. yellow warnings are in place for large parts of the u.k. friday and saturday with disruption likely over the weekend. severe weather is expected in western and central england, wales, southwest scotland, and northern ireland. you are live with bbc news. the british government's rwanda policy will cost twice as much as previously thought. the home fice confirm that the bill will be close to 290 million pounds by next year, without much to show for it.
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so far, significantly more home secretaries have been to rwanda than asylum-seekers. the government signed a new treaty with rwanda last week after an earlier version was blocked by the supreme court. the government says it has assurances that the process in rwanda will be safe. lawyers supporting asylum-seekers disagree. our correspondent has this port from rwanda. reporter: all dressed up with no one to cook for. this used to be a ruge for supporters of the 9095 genocide in rwanda -- 1995 genocide in rwanda. this fossil as part of what we now know is a 240 million-pound investment the british government has made in its asylum deal with rwanda. a bbc crew was here in june of last year when staff were getting ready to receive the first arrivals from the u.k. a year and half later, it still stands empty. the home office says some of the money is for rwanda's economic of elements -- economic
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developments. rights groups say the u.k. shouldn't be partnering with rwanda in the first place. >> this is a government where fundamental rights such as freedom of expression and association, freedom to vote how someone wants to, freedom from arbitrary detention and torture, these fundamental rights are not respected. reporter: the rwandan government says it respects human rights and international law. tuesday visit by the home secretary, rwanda's foreign minister said his country has a long history of welcoming refugees. refugees in this u.n.-run center were brought to rwanda after suffering abuse in libya. over 2000 people have passed through this campus since it was set up in 2019. none have chosen to stay in rwanda. this 26-year-old son sudanese refugee lives in kigali. we have changed his name and identity to protect him. >> 5 million want to leave.
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why? the life standard here is restricted. we all are restricted. reporter: the british government says the rwanda scheme is necessary to deter illegal migrants, and he believes asylum-seekers it sends here will be able to rebuild their lives. but as many refugees in rwanda want to relocate, that may be a tall order. christian: well, a first vote on that legislation which will enshrine this new treaty will be held on tuesday. it will test of the prime minister's authority. how deputy political editor has more. reporter: there are at least two factions and his party who are opposed to this for diametrically opposed reasons. one side is saying you have got to disregard more human rights legislation. the other side says you have gone too far already. the home secretary and other ministers will be giving a simple message to their mps, focus on this, don't worry about
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other things, what you are also grumpy about, this is the best way forward. the problem is there are two former ministers working in the home office who are undermining that message, saying they don't think it will work. i think it is worth emphasizing what a huge deal it would be if tory mps went against the prime minister next week. he has put an awful lot of effort and money into this policy and to really go against him now would undermine his authority, and i don't think anyone would predict what would happen. christian: with more on this i'm joined by the cofounder and director of the public opinion consultancy, and also the associate director of advocacy at the human rights charity freedom from torture. thank you both for being with us. where is immigtion on the list of the public's priorities? >> well, if you ask the public what is the most important issue facing the country, or indeed what is the most important issue
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facing them and their families, what comes top by some distance is the cost of living. and then the next level down you have the economy generally, and you also have the nhs. and then there is a third tier, way below those, of which immigration is one. you also have things like education, taxation, crime. but it is very much a third-tier issue. christian: is there any pulling on this specific plan, the rwanda plan? joe: yes, the polling has been relatively consistent. just under half of people approve of the plan, around one third of people disapprove. no matter what the policy is announced, if it is announced against illegal immigration, you tend to get those kinds of figures. when you follow-up with do people think it will actually work or even be introduced, you have a majority of people who don't think that it will actually work.
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that is a real problem for the government among many in this situation. christian: the prime minister is trying to convince us it is working. he would say that there has been a 30% reduction in small boats, and if he can pass the legislation, we would save 8 million pounds a day housing asylum-seekers and hotels. that is a saving in the long term, isn't it? >> first of all, we have got to remember that the reason they are having to pay so much money on hotels is because they have let the backlog grow from 8000 which they inherited, up to 170,000. what needs to happen, what would not only be more cost-effective, but more importantly more human-focused and protection-focused, would be to deliver an asylum system here in the u.k. that is able to make fair and effective decisions within a prompted timeframe, because what is happening now is
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people languishing for months and years at a time waiting for a decision on thr claim. rwanda is not the answer. christian: there is a feeling in the united states where they have a similar problem on their southern border that the longer it takes to process cases, the more people think they will get in, they will be given leave to stay, pending appeal, and in a sense, that is a pull factor in itself. is that the case here? natasha: so, what we know from our clients is that when people are facing the risk of death, they are willing to really do anything. and that is why we see people undertaking the most horrendous journeys, absolutely dangerous, horrific attorneys that you and i would never dream of what people do every day. we don't have evidence that deterrence by standing out the asylum decision-making process works.
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if that were the case, we would see a reduction which hasn't happened. let's remember, it is not about -- we have got to move away from this thought of trying to reduce the number of people seeking asylum. we see a fraction of people compared to our european neighbors. and we really need to move away from this discourse and move toward a more compassionate, protection-focused approach. christian: last time you were on, joe, you predicted there would be an election next year, which i thought was particularly wise. i think you were also leaning towards may. if this boat goes south on tuesday, or in future readings, does that become more or less likely, do you think? joe: i actually thought november was the more likely, but may you couldn't rule out. if there are divisions that explode into outright civil war, then i don't think the government will have much choice but to call no-confidence
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motions and such mechanisms. that does make may more likely. i think that the government will attempt to struggle on until autumn. one of the reasons for that is there's some evidence to suggest that the net migration figures, looking at all migration, not just specifics of small boats, net migration figures have been artificially inflated as a result of the covid pandemic, and that next year the impact will be reduced, and as a result the number will come down anyway. regardless of what takes place or does not take place, there might be a better story to tell on the net migration even though it is unlikely to placate many of the opponentss. christian: narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: financial services firm, raymond james. man: bdo. accountants and advisors.
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narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. and by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by...

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