wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. now you won't miss a thing. this is the way. the xfinity 10g network. made for streaming. william: good evening. i'm william brangham. amna nawaz and geoff bennett are away. on the “newshour” tonight, intense fighting continues in gaza and civilians caught in the crossfire struggle to find care in overcrowded hospitals. then, in a year-end news conference, russian president

vladimir putin vows to press on with his war in ukraine despite heavy losses and the coming winter. and some evangelical leaders in the u.s. join together to combat political radicalization within their congregations. >> it's been hard for us to come to grips that, could we have people that are radical, that are part of us. but it's to a point now we can't ignore it. ♪ >> major funding for the "pbs newshour" has been provided by. >> consumer cellular, this is sam. how may i help you? this is a pocket dial. well, somebody's pocket, thought i'd let you know that with consumer cellular, you get nationwide coverage with no contract. that's kind of our thing. have a nice day.

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station from viewers like you. thank you. william: welcome to the "newshour." international criticism of israel is growing over its war in gaza, which has killed more than 18,000 palestinians. according to the hamas-controlled gaza health ministry. the u.s. is also asserting more pressure on its ally. national security advisor jake sullivan met with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his top lieutenants today. but after the meeting, netanyahu said that israel would continue fighting until it achieves quote, absolute victory. in the minutes after aisraeli airstrike, sounds of panic, and pain. the sirens of an ambulance, blaring. voices of men, shouting over one another as they dig through the rubble with their bare hands. hundreds crowded on the sidelines have no choice but to watch.

two buildings, believed to house members of hamas, were targeted here, in the nuseirat refugee camp in central gaza. the attacks came a day after hamas' supreme leader, who lives in qatar, far from the war, said in a televised address that their governance of gaza will last. >> any bet on arrangements in gaza or in the palestinian cause in general without hamas and the resistance factions is an illusion and a mirage. william: the israel defense forces said fierce ground fighting continued in the north today. and more videos showing dozens of men, lined up single-file, hands in the air. the idf claims they are terror operatives who surrendered their weapons and will soon be interrogated. >> hamas is a terror organization. william: today, israeli defense minister yoav gallant hosted sullivan for a series of

meetings in tel aviv. >> it will last more than several months, but we will win and we will destroy them. william: at an event in maryland, president biden said israel's campaign needs to be more precise. pres. biden: i want them to be focused on how to save civilian lives. not stop going after hamas, but be more careful. william: but in rafah, the southern border town densely packed with gazans who fled the north, the bombs keep falling. u.n. officials also warned that gaza's food crisis has reached a breaking point. crowds of people ran after aid trucks in rafah, desperately helping themselves to food, and making the continuous flow of aid near-impossible. >> what is happening in gaza should outrage anyone, should make us all rethink our values. william: even as international efforts for another humanitarian cease-fire continue, calls for peace mean nothing to the ones who, each day, bear the brunt of

war. >> these are all just empty words. we are the ones who pay the price. william: in the day's other headlines, authorities in germany, denmark, and the netherlands arrested seven people accused of plotting terror attacks. three suspects in germany were said to be hamas members, plotting attacks on european jews because of the israel-hamas war. in brussels, at a european summit, the danish prime minister said it shows the gravity of the situation. >> it is very, very serious, and of course, concerning israel/gaza it is completely unacceptable for someone to bring an external conflict into danish society. william: earlier this month,

european union officials warned of a huge risk of attacks over the christmas holiday period. the house of representatives overwhelmingly passed a defense policy bill today, worth $886 billion. it included the biggest pay raise for troops in more than 20 years, but it dropped many of the demands from conservative republicans, including restrictions on abortion and transgender care. the senate approved it last night, and president biden is expected to sign it. in kenya, the military has intensified efforts to evacuate hundreds of people trapped by flooding. at least 170 people have died in the deluge since heavy rains began in november. aid groups say it's the worst flooding there in a century. more than 600,000 people have had to flee their homes. >> while i was running away from the rains and the floodwater, i

fell down and broke my hand. after the incident, my family and i came here, the young and old ones. since then we are waiting for a solution to this problem. we are pleading with the government to support us. william: forecasters say the heavy rains are expected to continue into the new year. amazon has won a major legal victory in europe and won't have to pay more than $270 million in back taxes. the eu's highest court today rejected claims of illegal financial support from luxembourg, where amazon has its european headquarters. the eu's anti-trust chief argued the company received special low tax rates, so almost three quarters of its european profits were not taxed. back in this country, retail sales rebounded in november in a surprise start to the holiday shopping season. the commerce department reports spending was up .3% after falling in october. analysts had expected another decline. sales were especially strong online and at clothing and furniture stores.

and, on wall street, stocks closed slightly higher. the dow jones industrial average gained 158 points to close at 37,248. the nasdaq rose 27 points. the s&p 500 added 12. still to come on the "newshour," what's on the table as congressional funding for ukraine and the southern border hangs in the balance. lawsuits challenging the standard real estate commission rate shake up the home-buying market. and rush front-man geddy lee reflects on his life and music in a new memoir. >> this is the "pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. william: russian president vladimir putin today held his first press conference that included international media in more than two years. and as nick schifrin reports, he insisted that he would continue

to wage war in ukraine, until all his goals were met. nick: across four stage-managed hours, in front of an audience of 600, russian president vladimir putin said he had no intention of ending the war in ukraine anytime soon. >> there will be peace when we achieve our goals. they have not changed. the denazification of ukraine, its demilitarization, and its neutral status. nick: and even though a new u.s. assessment says 315,000 russian troops have been killed or wounded, putin expressed confidence russia was winning. >> almost along the entire line of contact, our armed forces, to put it modestly, are improving their position. almost everyone is active, throughout the entire frontline. nick: that includes strikes on ukrainian critical infrastructure. ukraine says russia attacked odesa overnight with more than 40 drones.

ukraine's air defense worked, but the debris of a shot-down drone gutted an apartment complex, and left inna and her three-year-old homeless. >> i cannot even describe it with words. there was a big fire, smoke. it felt as if it was in slow motion. nick: part of putin's confidence today was from what he suggested was a slow motion weakening of ukraine's western support. >> today, ukraine produces almost nothing. they get a freebie for everything. but these freebies may end someday. nick: ukraine had been worried about european union support. but today in brussels, the european council announced it would invite ukraine to begin a path toward membership. but u.s. funding to ukraine still hangs in the balance. despite zelenskyy's visit this week, congressional negotiators are struggling to approve $60 billion of aid to ukraine, before they leave for the holidays. >> they need our help.

and they need it right now. not after the eggnog. nick: today, national security council spokesman john kirby cited putin's words to those blocking ukraine funding. >> i sure hope that house republicans who have for months held hostage reticle assistance ukraine heard putin's message loud and clear. nick: instead, they're heading home for holidays. in the meantime, moscow still holds wrongfully detained americans, former marine paul whelan and the wall street journal's evan gershkovich, whose detention was extended today. the u.s. says russia recently rejected a prisoner swap offer, but today putin said he was open to a deal. >> we want to make an agreement, and that agreement should be mutually accepted and satisfy both sides. nick: we turn now to thomas

graham who has served on the national security staff and at the state and defense departments. he's now a distinguished fellow at the council on foreign relations. thank you very much and welcome back to the "newshour." as we just heard, putin repeated the same objectives about ukraine he has been using since before the full scale invasion. what does that say about his intentions for the war? thomas: it says quite clearly that he intends to continue this struggle. he certainly believes time is on his side. he has fended off the ukrainian counteroffensive. he sees evidence of infighting in the ukrainian leadership. and as you already mentioned, support in the west is flagging and we have this problem in the congress right now as far as funding is concerned. all of this has really reconfirmed putin in his conviction that russians are more resilient, time is on our side, we need to continue to press forward. nick: president biden repeatedly says that putin believes russia

can outlast western support for ukraine. how much is putin counting on the u.s. being unable to continue maintaining its support for ukraine at the level it has been? thomas: i think that is top of his mind at this point. he has thought that from the very beginning. he begins to see evidence of that and he is hoping that as we get deeper into the political season in 2024 and closer to the elections that we will see even more flagging support for ukraine. i think this is critical in his mind to russia finally achieving whatever its goals are in ukraine. nick: and yet on the battlefield we don't see much evidence that russia is able to take the initiative or achieve any more territory than it already has. does putin actually believe russia is winning in ukraine? thomas: certainly when he looks at the way things are tending i would argue that he does believe russia is winning and that it can win.

that said, it is clear that they have not made much progress on the ground and he could be setting himself up for a fall because the expectation is now, particularly with flagging interest in the west, eyes focused on gaza, that russia should be making substantial progress on the ground in ukraine. that is going to be quite difficult and three or four weeks from now we may be seeing a quite different putin as he discusses the situation in ukraine. nick: let's expand out to russia's economy. today putin claimed the rocks -- russian economic growth was 3.5% this year. at the same time the treasury department released a new statement today saying u.s. and european sanctions had quote, put russia's economy under considerable economic strain. have the sanctions put russia's economy under considerable economic strain? thomas: i think the treasury is thinking about the long-term and

that is clearly true. short-term the sanctions have not had the impact that the united states and the west in general have hoped for. putin has put his economy on a war footing. he has poured much money into military production. he has managed to find ways to circumvent the $60 cap on oil, and therefore oil revenue is flowing into russian state coffers that allows him to continue to fund the military operation. as you look at this farther into the future you see a situation that will be very difficult for russia to sustain the economic growth it is seeing in the current year. nick: does that mean the sanctions are unlikely to affect any short-term thinking by putin , or even ability for russia to wage war? thomas: no. i think that is absolutely true. the sanctions have had very little impact on russia's ability to conduct this more short-term.

they have had very little impact on the way the kremlin thinks about the situation on the ground. 5, 10 years from now is a different story but that is not where putin is focused. he certainly believes he will achieve his goals in ukraine much before that. nick: we call this putin's annual press conference because it is usually annual but last year's was canceled. what does it say about the fact that he held this press conference with domestic and international media? confidence levels and his hold on power? thomas: it certainly says he is much more confident about his own situation and rushes a situation that he was a year ago. a year ago at this time the ukrainians had launched a very successful counteroffensive, taking back areas, liberated the city of kherson. this was not a time putin wanted to be speaking to the russian public. this year is quite different.

russia appears to be doing ok on the ground in terms of pushing back against the ukrainian counteroffensive. the other thing you need to bear in mind is that putin is facing a presidential election in march of next year. there is no doubt he is going to win that election but it is very important for his own political authority to put the best face possible on russia's situation, underscore the successes russia has had. that is one of the reasons he decided to hold this annual press conference this year. nick: thomas graham, thank you very much. thomas: thank you. ♪ william: in a sign that a deal on border security and ukraine funding could still emerge by christmas, the u.s. senate plans to stay in town next week

instead of going on its scheduled recess. capitol hill correspondent lisa desjardins and white house correspondent laura barron lopez are here to walk us through the latest. thank you both so much for being here. lisa, how close are senators really to a deal? and help us understand this issue that seems to be driving so much, the numbers at the u.s. mexico border. lisa: it is a sign that they are close, that they have told senators to come back next week. they have yet to deal with some of the biggest differences between republicans and democrats. the key is leaders on both sides want a deal. why? in part what we are seeing at the border. i want to talk about those numbers because you see those without context. first of all, this is the october numbers. the southwest border, we see migrant encounters about 240,000. that is high but not that different from last year.

that includes legal crossings. if you take those out the total illegal entry is more like 180,000. it is also important to talk about who we are talking about. he faces is something we don't focus on. let's look at october 2022, who was being apprehended. look at that. far and away it was single adults being picked up. let's look at the numbers now, october 2023. families. you are seeing far more families now crossing the border that are being apprehended. the number of adults going down. that has to do with u.s. policy. families are able to stay more but it also has to do with demand. so that is who are being affected. william: these negotiations going on, what is actually on the table that is being discussed? laura: multiple sources have told me and lisa that we white house is open to supporting major changes to the immigration system in this country.

here is what is on the table. expanding fasttrack deportations without conditional review to any undocumented person across the united states if the person cannot prove they have lived here for two years. currently it only apply to migrants who live -- that are within 100 miles of the border who have arrived within 14 days. they are also considering a new expulsion authority that would allow the administration to expel people with no ability to seek asylum. it would be triggered if the number of arrivals exceeds more than 5000 people a day up it essentially this makes permanent the title 42 deportation policy without needing the public health crisis justification. negotiation is also about expansion of detention for migrants but we don't know who that would apply to or if it would comply with child detention laws put on the fast track deportation, that would impact the 11 million-plus undocumented immigrants who currently live in the country

and at work here for years, have children here. and they would need to carry on their person if something like this became law. gym memberships, bills, any kind of identification constantly with them. and that new expulsion authority would essentially be eliminating asylum as it is currently written under our laws. william: lisa, i know you have been talking to republicans. how do they see these proposals? lisa: this is a divided party so there are differences. but it is important to understand that republicans, most of them want what is called a closed border. this is where the policy laura talks about comes into play. republicans i talked to buy a large want asylum-seekers who could now come and be left to enter the country while they waive processing, they will -- while they await processing. they want most of them to be denied right away or in detention. that includes families. this is an enforcement approach

and that is where you see divide. there are some on the center-right including a group of the national immigration forum who says enforcement only is not going to work. . we still need workers. we want people to have a legal process because we have a labor shortage. they think this might go too far. but there are those on the others who say this does not go far enough and they are worried this is not a total closure of the border. in general republicans want this closed border and this negotiation has moved closer in that direction. william: what do democrats say about all this? laura: i spoke to multiple former biden administration officials who say they are demoralized, disillusioned, disappointed. they cannot believe the white house is even entertaining this. while they may not get anything in exchange like a pathway to citizenship for dreamers. it is important to note that the primary reason these major immigration changes are being talked about is because a growing faction of house republicans have repeatedly said that they will not support any

additional ukraine funding unless there are more severe restrictions on asylum and on undocumented migrants. former officials and democrats across the spectrum i have talked to say they think even if this ultimately passes the senate, even if there is a deal between senate negotiators and the white house, that this could ultimately get tanked in the house. because they think there could be enough house democrats and enough house republicans that for a different reasons, they will not go along with. william: such an incredibly complicated maze. thank you both for helping us get through it all. laura: thank you. ♪ william: the united nations says gaza's health system has virtually collapsed, and gazans who have survived daily bombings now face the risk of disease

amid chronically overcrowded hospitals. avril benoit is the usa executive director of the international humanitarian organization doctors without borders, or msf. it has been operating in gaza since the start of the war. avril benoit, thank you so much for being here. we are seeing reports that only a third of hospitals are still open in gaza. a u.n. official who just came back from southern gaza described the region as being on the brink of total chaos. what has your own staff been reporting back to you about conditions there? avril: william, the conditions have been harrowing almost since the beginning, with the shortage of fuel, the shortage of medicines, of medical equipment, the constant orders to evacuate hospitals that are fully functioning and overcrowded with patients in need of care. we are seeing a lot of people coming in with catastrophic injuries, dead upon arrival in huge numbers, huge numbers of infections, people requiring

major surgery and post-operative care that is just impossible under the current circumstances. the hospitals are full and the medical teams are operating often with four or five people in a bed. many people having surgery at the same time. when the operating rooms are full, they're doing it in the hallways. such a lack of anesthesia, such a lack of pain control medication, lack of bandages and basic sutures, basic supplies. many of the hospitals are just unable to cope. william: and how do your staff go about trying to triage in circumstances like that? avril: well, it's a harrowing moral dilemma. you take the triage training that you receive in medical school and subsequently from conflict medicine, where you're trying to determine, ok, who can we save with the shortfalls that we have in medicines, in

anesthesia, in surgical supplies? who cannot be saved? and there are a lot of people who cannot be saved. they will die of their infections. they will die of their wounds. and then you have those who are lightly injured, who will not be prioritized and are at very high risk of succumbing to what would normally be a fairly straightforward infection to deal with a small wound, a few stitches, you send them on their way. but unfortunately, with the combination of the siege, people arriving so late because of the risk of violence all around, we have attacks on hospitals that have now become so routine that our doctors have been killed at the bedside of patients. just on monday, we had a doctor, a bullet pierced through the hospital from the outside, there was sniper fire. and this hospital has been surrounded by israeli forces for many, many days now. and he was shot and injured inside the hospital while treating a patient. so, between all these combination of factors of people coming in extremely wounded, the

risks to health care workers, and all the other pressures on the medical staff, that decision of who to save, who to treat, is really, i cannot express enough, the heartbreak, the sense of utter failure of the medical humanitarian community, because we know what to do and we just can't do it. it's impossible with the few resources, with the siege, with the constant pressures of the violence. william: i mean, the idf argues that the only reason they are approaching hospitals or fighting around hospitals is because they argue hamas is operating inside those hospitals themselves. have your staff seen any evidence of that? avril: yeah, these are very unconvincing arguments because we're always worried about the presence of militants amidst civilians. that concerns everyone. and our staff have not seen evidence that hospitals are being used in the way that the israeli government continues to allege to provide political cover for what can also be

considered war crimes. when you attack a hospital that's fully functioning, that's full of patients, that's full of people finding refuge, you know, civilians, families, children -- there is no justification for attacking and destroying a hospital's capacity to treat people. william: i mean, the u.n. general assembly two days ago voted to call for another humanitarian cease fire. absent that happening, how long do you think msf can continue operating under these conditions? avril: we ask ourselves that hour by hour, because there are moments when we really question whether doctors without borders, msf, can continue. sometimes it is so difficult even for patients to reach the health facilities, the hospitals that are managing to keep the doors open. and sometimes the doors are closed because there's a -- they're surrounded by armed forces and there are snipers all around. there may come a time if the

violence, the indiscriminate violence against civilians continues to the extent that it is, we really question how long we can hang on. and we don't want to leave. but we would like to be able to scale up. people have a right to humanitarian assistance. and because of the conduct of the war, this indiscriminate violence, this siege, it's imperative that we get a cease fire so that at the very least we can start giving civilians an opportunity to survive this horror. william: avril benoit of medecins sans frontieres, doctors without borders. thank you so much for being here. avril: thank you. ♪ william: the federal reserve is projecting as many as three interest rate cuts next year. that could help lower mortgage rates, which this year have been at a two-decade high, and make

home ownership more affordable for many. some experts also point to a landmark jury decision that could also change the cost of buying and selling a home. economics correspondent paul solman has the story from missouri. >> if you think i'm going to cut my bleeping bleeping commission. paul: one senior realty broker sharing his favorite commission tactic. >> you can take this home and shove it up your bleeping bleeping, and i know that it will fit. paul: this clip from a real estate podcast, and ones not quite so bleep-heavy, helped persuade a federal jury in missouri that the national association of realtors and its members have illegally conspired for decades to fix commission rates on home sales, money paid to selling agents, who invariably cut in the buyer's agents, 50-50. plaintiff attorney mike ketchmark. >> why is it that the only

system in our entire country, if you want to sell something, that you're paying the other side? paul: or as one of ketchmark's plaintiffs, former policeman jared breit, put it. >> what a weird system that the person that i had never met and did absolutely nothing for me as a consumer was getting the full percentage. paul: the full buyer's agent half of the commission, 3%. worse still, says winning attorney ketchmark, large firms are coming to dominate the industry, and have a huge incentive to preserve the system. >> half the time these corporations are making their money representing sellers, and half the time they're making their money representing buyers. and so they're propping this system up and they're benefiting each other. paul: but not anymore, assuming the verdict withstands appeal. for now, ketchmark has won a $1.8 billion judgment on behalf of some half a million home-sellers in just kansas, missouri, and illinois. >> we took 100 depositions of these top corporations in real estate, and they have training

materials saying, fix your commissions at 6%. when homesellers saw that i had written in a 6% commission into the contract, and would ask, gino, aren't commissions negotiable? i would always answer confidently, yes, commissions are negotiable, but i can only go up. and what we did is we started uncovering this. paul: so this trial exhibit came as no surprise. between 2015 and 2022. >> we looked at the actual closing documents for 110,000 homes sold in the kansas city area. 98% of the time the commissions were set between 2.5% and 3% to the buyer's commission. 94% of the time it was right at 3%. paul: the 3% the seller's agent gave the buyer's agent as a cooperation fee. so, in addition to through-the-roof mortgage rates, a now higher-than-ever median american home price of $430,000, about $26,000 of which is

realtor commissions, $13,000 for each agent, regardless of effort, making homes that much more expensive than even their market price. and thus the complaint, industry-wide commission fixing, as the video clips so blatantly suggested, agents colluding with the national association, which owns the word realtor. to call yourself one, you must be a dues-paying member. the trade group's response? >> commissions have always been completely negotiable. and they will always be completely negotiable. and those are set upfront with the listing agent and the seller much ahead of time. paul: look, a few individual brokers may behave badly, says kipp cooper, ceo of the kansas city regional association of realtors. but -- >> the national association of realtors has always been clear that -- and it's in all of our guidance documents, it's in every meeting i've attended for

the last 23 years -- that we're not to talk about or set a commission rate. paul: well, mum's the word for most of us when it comes to negotiating commissions. >> i've never heard anybody talk about commission as part of their buying experience. paul: first-time homebuyer stephanie greene closed on this house in kansas city last spring, to accommodate the, well, extended family. to greene, buying was all about price. negotiating the commission? never occurred to her. or to plaintiff breit. >> i thought as a first-time homebuyer in this experience that 6% is 6% is 6%. paul: but then, and please bear with me as i try to untangle this legal web, why do sellers' agents share their commission instead of pocketing the whole 6%? real estate economist norm miller. >> the general feeling among the industry is that if they don't offer a competitive buyer co-op fees, no one will show the home, that is, they'll steer away from it.

paul: ok, a seemingly rigged system, just as the jury found. and yet stephanie greene likes the current system, even though she realizes home buyers like her wind up paying a sizable commission sort of hidden as part of the final price. >> it really helped us out to be able to work that into the mortgage rather than having to pay it all upfront. >> this is the monopoly board game, so this is the pathway to homeownership. paul: and buyers' agents certainly often do provide plenty of value, especially, as tenesia brown does, for first-time home buyers. >> get a job. paul: i have a job. >> you would never guess the amount of people who have reached out to us who are interested in buying a home but don't have a job or source of income. paul: her agency walks clients through the very basics. >> you need to buy a house because you have a baby. now you are thinking about the feature. i have two children.

i have a son who's autistic. i wanted to write a letter. so who's ever home i was buying they got to know a little bit about me. paul: tialynn beauvoir says one of brown's agents coached her well beyond the inspection, title search, even financing. >> she was like, if you are going to write a letter, you know, let them know why and get personal if that's what you want. and so she attached it to every offer after that that i put on there. paul: beauvoir got the house, from someone who was touched by her appeal. brown, who runs the brokerage, worries about the judgment. will her largely low-income clients be able to afford a buyers fee up front if her agents are no longer paid as part of the price? will they want to negotiate a commission? >> the journey of homeownership or selling a home can be a roller coaster. so, adding in the difficulties of now another layer of negotiating what has been a standard for so long is just going to make it more difficult. paul: on the plus side of the

judgment, may be fewer of what brown calls fly-by-night agents. there are some two million real estate agents in america, 1.6 million of them realtors, and yet barely five million homes sold last year. one in every 100 american workers hos real estate license, and yet 80% of them sell little to nothing, says economist miller. >> if the fees come down and the good agents sell more homes, that means that there's a lot of part timers and mediocre agents that are out of the industry. paul: so, what's the economy's final verdict likely to be, should the jury's be upheld? >> we should move towards what we see in other developed countries like the u.k., israel, singapore. and that would suggest that the fees would move from 5% to 6% down to 3% and 4%. paul: if sellers and buyers start negotiating. would jared breit negotiate now? >> absolutely, 100%. paul: in the end, for each 1% less in commissions, buyers and sellers would have saved more

$20 billion last year. 3% less? more than $60 billion, something like $13,000 a house. and to up the pressure, mike ketchmark has now started a lawsuit against the industry nationwide, in the name of cutting home prices by bidding down commissions. which could lower prices, and start a whole lot of haggling. for the "pbs newshour," paul solman, in kansas city, missouri. ♪ william: evangelical christian leaders have been sounding the alarm in recent years about growing polarization and radicalization within their own churches. earlier this week, laura barron lopez sat down with one pastor who's trying to shift that conversation. laura: in tarrant county, texas,

political allegiance is surpassing religious allegiance. this week a group of religious leaders from the tarrant county-based multifaith neighbors network, along with researchers at american university and other experts, released the peacemaker's to help clergy across the country combat some of these issues in their communities. pastor bob roberts junior cofounded the network and joins me now. thank you for being on the "newshour." you lead an evangelical church for more than 30 years. can you tell us a bit about the shift you are seeing in communities like ewers and more broadly in the faith community in recent years? bob: thank you for having me. the shift taking place is for real. there was a time when church was something we did. we worshiped. god was first. but i fear the church has been impacted with many of the things in the culture that is impacting

everyone else. i think for a while we have not with it. it has been hard for us to come to grips that we have people that are radical that are part of else. i also think sometimes ron stokes like all christians are christian nationalists and things like that has made it difficult for us to be able to speak to those things. but it is to a point now you cannot ignore it. i don't think anyone would say now i am a white supremacist, or they aren't an extremist or anything like that. but there are things that are taking place that are going deep within evangelical churches. over 30% of evangelical churches believe certain parts about qanon. that is cause for concern. conspiracy theories are very present. there is a time where the church influenced the political parties. i am sorry to say the political parties now, political party in particular for evangelicals, have impacted us pretty dramatically. instead of pastors being prophetic, they have become more

pungent's -- pundits, more personalities. laura: politics are affecting what pastors are saying? bob: tremendously. pastors are afraid sometimes to say what they know they need to say. because no matter what they say, they will get in trouble. whether you wore a mask or didn't wear a mask, it was a controversial issue. as a result of that, conspiracy theories, polarization, tribal is asian, all of this comes into play. you have to understand as christians, we do what we do based on the bible and because we passionately want to follow jesus. when a preacher stands up and says you have to vote for this person or you are not following jesus, that is not good. and when you have politicians promise they can fix things, sometimes we can be susceptible to a product -- politician promising to fix something that they cannot, or that they really don't have a desire other than to use us for their own

political purposes. there is nothing wrong with being in a political party. we all have political views. that is great. but as christians we have to realize that we are committed to a kingdom that transcends any nation. laura: are you talking about former president donald trump there, or are there any specific leaders? bob: any leader. i don't care if it is democrats or republicans. if we start to look for a political leader to be our messiah, that is when we get into trouble. and when we look to political leaders and we give them pass on morals and integrity and character, thinking that the way to help truth and goodness and righteousness is to make a pact with people, i think that is very dangerous. laura: what are the consequences of what you are talking about here? what has been the impact that you have seen specifically on younger pastors? bob: it breaks my heart. many of them want to quit. right now we are going through

one of the toughest times ever in american history for pastors. the burnout, their mental -- their mental health is at risk. there are so many studies about this. i talk to pastors all the time and they know they need to address certain issues. how do i address this, what do i do, how do i even talk to the people? because they are being impacted by conspiracy theories, news channels, they are listening to others tell them what their position should be more than they are the bible. so how do you deal with that? there is not the same authority in the pulpit, sadly. for some that comes from political pundits and others. laura: to fix this, you helped put out this peacemakers toolkit. what are some of the things in that toolkit you think will fix this problem? bob: the toolkit was critical for us. i am sorry to say as evangelicals we don't talk about peacemaking nearly as much as we should. you cannot read the bible and

not see that peacemaking is not there. first of all it deals with the theological basis. what is the basis for peacemaking? in that context we look at the ethic of jesus. not just love your neighbor, but love your enemy. and love your enemy works in a fantastic way when you are dealing with peacemaking. and when you are dealing with people at odds. the polarization taking place, the isolation taking place. the second part deals with scenarios. challenges pastors are faced with. i had a pastor call me, very upset. he said i don't know what to do. he has a pretty good-sized church. he said i have church members joining a militia across a state line in another state. how do i deal with this? how do i even address it? what do i do about that? so we try and think, what are some of the scenarios they deal with? justifying violence. i mean, violence is up. and the justification saying violence would be ok in order to

bring about a desired result, that is not good. but multifaith neighbors network was not just enough to look at how we are not getting along with muslims, and how do we relate to jews. we had to start looking in our own backyard as christians. wait a minute, when i started hearing pastors calling for war, when i would hear them trash other religions in the pulpit, disagreeing with them, challenge the theology. but you don't have to trash the religion. when i see what is taking place in our country, we knew we had to do something. and so it is simple. it is not hard. it is not complicated. laura: what you just said, are you losing congregants to white supremacist militias or other violent militias more and more in texas? bob: i don't think so, but i think we are having people leaning that way. civil society is one of those things, it can be destroyed very quick. it takes decades and years to build up. we cannot be silent.

civil society is like basket weaving. we know we have white supremacists. we know that accorded to the fbi, it is one of the biggest challenges we face. but i don't think you walk into a church and think all these white people are white supremacists. they are not. are there some there? you bet there are. but there are four more people who want to get along and be at peace. so we have to give tools to help with this. laura: thank you for your time. bob: thank you. ♪ william: to some, they are rock gods. to others, a trio of nerds. from the 1970's to the 2000's, the canadian band rush achieved huge success, driven by their virtuosity and eclectic, lyrical songwriting. after the death of drummer neil

peart in 2020, lead singer and bass player geddy lee stepped away from the stage. but he has returned now, in a spoken word tour to accompany his new memoir. lisa desjardins spoke with him for our arts and culture series, "canvas." ♪ lisa: their sound was hard to label. for 40 years, the band rush refused to blend in, becoming rock legends with hard work, 24 gold and 14 platinum albums, and touring nearly every year. their songs about power and identity were unusual then. rock anthems about teen mental

health, and even a.i. but they are now taking on new meaning. and their lead singer geddy lee is doing something new, pausing to look back, with his memoir, "my effin life." i asked him about the band, virtuosos. some call neil peart the best rock drummer in history, and rolling stone has listed lee on the bass and alex liefson on guitar as among the best on those instruments. you all spent your life not just being good, but trying to reach the sort of unfathomable level of quality. why push so hard? geddy: why? it's just in my nature, i think. and i think my partners share that trait of wanting to do whatever it is we do as best as we can do it. lisa: in music and message. rush's songs often bolster underdogs and attack toxic power, from high school cliques to fascists. meaningful to lee, especially.

you also write in the book how both of your parents survived nazi concentration camps. i want to ask you, there's an intense debate right now about hate, about speech, culture, and art is part of that. and i wonder, how do you think about the tension now between free speech and rising hate that we see? geddy: you know, people are smart. people should be able to discuss things. the death of discourse is not good for the human race. it's not good for improving things. you know, it's through discourse and through educating each other about the things that are important to have a good, safe, peaceful life. that cannot go away. and when you see that starting to happen, it scares me. it really scares me a lot. and i am put in mind of what was going on, you know, in germany

before world war ii. there's danger signs all over the world right now, and that worries me a lot. lisa: that's the image most rush fans have of them, thoughtful, philosophical, and different from others in rock. geddy: there's certainly the theme of identity and multiple identities is a big part of the book. lisa: but his book is candid and confessional about the reality of music-making. you talk about bolivian marching powder. doing lines of cocaine in the 1970's and 1980's. i think your fans will be surprised by that. geddy: you have to remember, we were very young and suddenly finding ourselves with 23 gigs in a row, for example, driving every night, playing every day, driving, driving, play, drive,

play, drive. and so, even our youthful stamina, such as it was, every once in a while needed a bit of help. but the problem is that it's an insidious drug. and you think you control cocaine, but very rarely do you because it takes control of you. you asked me earlier about our work ethic and our obsessive to be perfect. well, that's the thing that controlled your drug intake. you can't go out on stage and seek perfection if you're inebriated or somehow distorted or handicapped by a drug. so that's the thing that really did save us. lisa: i want to come back to that idea of community. the rush community. the rush fanbase, they love you. i am part of that community. i think the rush fan base sees themselves sometimes as people who don't fit in everywhere in

society, don't think that society looks at them, and they've found something in your music that is refuge. why do you think that is and what does that mean to you? geddy: it means a hell of a lot to me. and it sustained us. lisa: especially in the late 1990's when, within a span of months, peart's daughter and then his wife died in separate events. he was shattered, and the band took its longest break. geddy: when he came back to us and we decided to, you know, go back on the road, made an album, the day we did our first show in hartford, people had come literally from all corners of the world to welcome us back. and that was so moving. it was so overwhelming. and that was the first time i realized the depth of their ability to relate to us. now, how did that come to be? it's hard to know. our earliest fans, of course, loved that we played fast and complicated stuff. and so, our earliest fan base

was largely males and largely other players, young players. but now it's changed. we have young musicians of every gender, you know, just following us and studying our music, which is, of course, the ultimate compliment. lisa: now, rush's music has become a kind of rachmaninoff of rock. complex and challenging, but idolized. have to ask you, do you think you could tour musically again? geddy: yes, i could. will i? it remains to be seen, but yes, i could. and i do have a desire to do that. ♪ lisa: however you label his music, geddy lee wants more ahead. for the "pbs newshour," i'm lisa desjardins in oxon hill, maryland. william: check out our instagram

for more from geddy lee, hear his answers to lisa's rapid-fire questions on everything from baseball to robots to bjork. and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm william brangham. join us again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the "pbs newshour," thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the "pbs newshour" has been provided by. the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions, and friends of the "newshour," including leonard and norma klorfine, and koo and patricia yuen. >> architect. beekeeper. mentor. a raymondjames financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well-planned. >> actually, you don't need vision to do most things in life.

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