♪ william: good evening. i'm william brangham. amna nawaz and geoff bennett are away. on "the newshour" tonight. the supreme court considers the biden administration's plan to reduce pollution drifting between states. then, a key informant in the investigation of hunter biden is accused of lying and having ties to russia. and, the future of the united nation's humanitarian aid agency in gaza hangs in the balance after allegations some employees helped with hamas' october 7th attack.

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stephanie: i'm stephanie sy with "newshour west." here are the latest headlines -- a top israeli official is offering new hope tonight for a deal to free the hostages in gaza, and pause the fighting. benny gantz, a member of the israeli war cabinet, spoke today in tel aviv. mr. gantz: there are ongoing attempts to promote a new hostage deal and there are promising early signs of possible progress. we will not stop looking for a way and we will not miss any opportunity to bring our people home. stephanie: gantz also warned that if there is no deal, fighting will continue into ramadan, the muslim holy month that begins in march. in gaza, israeli air strikes rained down again overnight, and hospital officials reported at least 67 palestinians were killed. palestinians said bombs crushed family homes in rafah, where more than a million gazans have fled. one palestinian condemned the world's response, including tuesday's u.s. veto of a u.n. ceasefire resolution.

ahmed: this veto was not a surprise. the whole world has made the decision of committing a genocide against the palestinian people. if all the images across more than 140 days did not push the world to take action, then what are they waiting for? stephanie: the hamas-run gazan health ministry reported the overall death toll in the territory now exceeds 29,300 people. israeli lawmakers today rejected international pressure for a unilateral declaration of a palestinian state. the knesset sided overwhelmingly with prime minister benjamin netanyahu, who said the statehood issue must be part of overall peace negotiations. a related question is now before the world court at the hague. u.s. state department lawyers argued today that israel should not be asked to immediately withdraw from all the palestinian lands that were captured in 1967, during the six-day war.

the u.n. court will eventually issue a non-binding opinion. in russia, alexei navalny's mother filed suit against prison officials who've refused to release her son's remains. the opposition leader reportedly died last week at a high-security arctic prison. russian authorities have said they will hold navalny's body for 2 weeks, while they investigate his cause of death. russia's capture of a city in eastern ukraine has touched off a new exodus in the region. people are now fleeing areas near avdiivka in the donetsk region after it was taken by the russians over the weekend. many of the evacuees are elderly and cannot leave without assistance. some say they worry their towns will be blasted into ruins. valentyna: it's unbearable to endure what is happening. they are bombarding and destroying everything. shall i wait till they destroy us? i'm leaving everything behind -- home, flat, everything. stephanie: meanwhile, there are

signs that the fall of avdiivka was a bigger blow to ukraine's military than first believed. new reports indicate that up to a thousand ukrainian troops are missing, including hundreds who may have been captured by the russians. in venezuela, at least 14 people are dead and several more injured after an illegally operated gold mine collased yesterday. rescuers recovered bodies and treated injuries today. officials say an unknown number of people could still be trapped. the mine is only reachable by an hours-long boat ride or helicopter, complicating rescue operations. the death toll is expected to rise. a hearing has wrapped up in london, on whether to greenlight the extradition of wikileaks founder julian assange to the u.s. supporters today demanded his release. they and his defense team maintain he shouldn't be punished for leaking troves of documents that exposed u.s. misdeeds in iraq and afghanistan. the u.s. argues assange put the

lives of intelligence sources at risk. a ruling isn't expected until march at the earliest. farmer protests turned violent in india today. one protester was killed after farmers fought with police who fired tear gas. the farmers are marching to new delhi to demand higher prices for crops. in spain, farmers drove tractors to madrid to denounce european union policies, their largest demonstration yet. back in this country, the gap in campaign cash between president biden and former president trump is getting wider. the trump camp reports it ended january with $30 million on hand after spending more than it took in. biden's re-election campaign jumped to a surplus of $56 million. still to come on "the newshour" -- alabama's supreme court rules that frozen embryos are children. a new app aims to make traffic stops in minnesota safer. the potentially scary implications of an a.i. tool that creates extremely-realistic

video. and much more. >> this is "the pbs newshour" from weta studios in washington, and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. william: the supreme court heard arguments today in a major environmental case over a rule that requires states to stop their air pollution from drifting over to neighboring states. three states, led by ohio, are claiming the rule is too costly, and they're asking the court to block the so-called good neighbor plan. coral davenport is following all this closely. she covers energy and environmental policy at the new york times. great to have you back on the program. the good neighbor plan says that states have to do everything they can to stop their pollution

from sullying their neighbors' air. the states that are protesting this rule, but is it that they don't like about it? coral: this rule is the biden administration strengthening a rule that was already on the books from the obama administration. the obama rule said that power plants had to control their pollution that goes over state lines and pollutes in other states. the law actually says that governments have to go back and strengthen this rule every number of years. the trump administration did not do that. the biden administration went back and expanded the rule and said we are also going to apply this to a lot of other industrial pollution, steel mills, factories, cement plants. so a really significant expansion of these controls. this is what the industrial states say, this is too much, this is going to cost millions if not billions of dollars. it is a burden and a tremendous economic imposition on the engines of our state. william: what is the argument for it?

i guess broadly speaking, they could say air pollution is bad. but the argument for stopping this pollution is what? coral: again, the clean air act specifically stipulates that the federal government has to do this. it says that there is -- and this is interesting because it has to do with the way the winds blow. you've heard the phrase the westerly winds that blow across the united states. that is real. so when you have a lot of air pollution, smog, in the middle of the country, it is very well documented that the winds actually blow that to the eastern part of the country. when you have a lot of smog in states like ohio and indiana, it ends up in the air of delaware and connecticut. the senator from delaware recently said we are the tailpipe of the united states. there is a lot of evidence that is true. so the law created this specific regulation, essentially saying states in the middle of the

country where this is coming from, you have to clean up to protect your neighbors. that's part of it. the other part is there is a lot of evidence that this smog is really devastating for human health. the epa finds at this rule would indeed be very costly. it would cost the industry about $900 billion a year to comply. that is huge. it also finds that would save the economy in terms of workdays, sick days, increased asthma, respiratory diseases, it would save the economy about $13 billion a year in costs that are measured in public health impacts. william: that seems like a pretty clear cost-benefit analysis. coral: it is a magnitude of difference. william: the court took up the case on what is known as its emergency docket. several of the justices today, including catania brown jackson, seemed to take issue with that, asking why this was so urgent. we talked with our supreme court

analyst earlier about this and here's what she had to say. marsha: justice jackson said she didn't see the emergency. in fact, she wondered if this was not just a case of the states and industry wanting not to obey the law as the lawsuit proceeded through the d.c. circuit. so what the court has is very unusual here right now. they always claim that they are a court of review, not first view, and they have nothing to review in front of them because no lower court has yet to look at the merits of the good neighbor plan. william: and yet the court seemed very eager to hear this. coral: and it is very surprising. one reason is that the entities that are specifically the plaintiffs in this case, are the newly covered entities. the power plants had already been covered. this regulation expands the rules and the controls, those rules don't kick in until 2026.

so they are not directly impacted, and yet they brought this case to the supreme court on this emergency filing, saying that this is going to have an emergency impact right now and that the rule essentially needs to be frozen, not implemented at all, until all the litigation is complete. but it is extremely unusual for the supreme court to even hear a case like this. and that is part of a trend we are starting to see in this supreme court. william: this court has shown a good deal of skepticism towards a lot of environmental regulations. coral: that is always true of a conservative court. historically, ideologically, there's more justices appointed by republican presidents on this court. that is not surprising. here is what's new. this is the third in cases where

the regulation is not fully implemented. last year the supreme court heard a case on a water regulation that was not yet implemented, not yet fully on the books. very surprising. analyst said they were surprised that they took that case. they ended up choosing to sharply limit the regulations, even before the government was done writing the regulation. the court had told it you have to really rein back what you're doing. the same thing happened the year before on a major climate change regulation. again, very unusual for the court to have even taken up the case before the regulation was even done. court told the government, you are really restricted in what kind of regulating you can do. that regulation still isn't out, but the government is taking its marching orders from the court on how it can write these rules. this is a new trend where it is not just conservative justices expressing skepticism of regulation it is sort of taking , it to a new level of ruling on

these policies before they are even on the books, and dictating to the federal agencies what they can then do. kind of handcuffing them before they are even done with their work. william: it sounds like the same thing might happen again from the arguments today. coral davenport, always great to see you. thank you. coral: always great to be here. ♪ william: an informant who's been charged with lying to the fbi about president biden recently told law enforcement he's been in contact with russian agents. that informant's story is at the center of republicans' ongoing effort to impeach president biden. laura barron-lopez has more. lauren: in a court filing last night, special counsel david weiss said ex-fbi informant alexander smirnov told them he met with russian operatives as recently as last december. in the filing, prosecutors

wrote, " smirnov admitted that officials associated with russian intelligence were involved in passing a story about businessperson 1, " referring to president biden's son, hunter biden. prosecutors say that story, of a ukrainian energy firm bribing president biden and his son, is a complete fabrication, being used to interfere in u.s. elections. joining me to discuss the implications is ryan goodman, former special counsel for the department of defense. thank you for joining. what is the big take away from this latest revelation? ryan: the big take away is that mr. smirnov appears to have been acting as an agent of russian intelligence, and according to the department of justice filing in court, he was knowingly passing on false, derogatory information about president biden and hunter biden to the fbi. and that he has been doing so recently and actively.

so that is the kind of bombshell of a court filing by the justice department. laura: alexander smirnov first raw unverified allegation in 2020. it was not corroborated. so why is david weiss, a trump appointed attorney, deciding to bring these charges now, and why is smirnov just now revealing last week that he has been in contact with russian intel officials? ryan: it seems as though mr. weiss has been willing a case against mr. smirnov and that the fbi knew along the way that mr. smirnov telling them lies and fabrications, they were able to corroborate the assertions that these were falsehoods because his chronology did not line up, the times he said -- said he met with the burisma company did not line up. he made allegations about hunter biden being in a country that hunter biden never visited. it's about building that case to be able to prosecute him fully for false statements to the fbi.

now we have this mountain of new evidence and allegations in the court filing because the justice department is trying to implore the judges not to release mr. smirnov before trial. so that's where all this new information comes in. he is revealing it to the government after arrest. it is important to know that because at that point, he should've known the gig is up. it is him kind of coming clean after arrest and knowingly telling the fbi as best he could about his contacts with russian officials. laura: the unverified allegation was made in what is called a 1023 form, where the fbi takes in those raw allegations, and it was the foundation, that form, for the house republican impeachment probe. just last month, the house judiciary chairman jim jordan said that form, that raw

allegation was the heart of their probe. mr. jordan: the most corroborating evidence we have is at 1023 form from this highly credible, confidential source, according to u.s. attorney scott brady. laura: politics and impeachment aside, from a national security perspective, what are the implications of apparent russian disinformation being filtered through top republican elected officials and media outlets like fox news? ryan: in a certain sense, that is the goal of the russian kremlin disinformation campaigns inside the united states. they want to divide us, they want to upset and overturn in a certain sense or institutions. so if they can do something as much as fuel and impeachment process against a sitting president, that is already a success. to me, when i read this court filing, that was one of the most alarming parts of it, just how much the russian intelligence operation had in some sense succeeded in jumpstarting this

process, and even when speaker mccarthy, speaker at the time, announced the impeachment process, he referred specifically to what are now understood to be lies to the fbi, because that was also the heart of the allegation. so it is deeply concerning is a national security matter. laura: what you think the implications are for the house republican impeachment inquiry? ryan: i would have to think republicans would have to go back to the drawing board. this really does undermine a fundamental building block of the impeachment. so many of the allegations about president biden kind of being bribed are coming from mr. smirnov, so many of the statements made by house republicans in favor of impeachment are traceable to him. laura: in this filing, special counsel david weiss said "the misinformation he is spreading

is not confined to 2020. he being smirnov is actively peddling lies that could impact u.s. elections after meeting with russian intelligence officials in november." do you think that the damage is done and this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to potential russian interference ahead of 2024? ryan: i think a lot of damage has already been done. he really has in a certain sense, this particular individual, had an enormous effect on our political psyche and what has happened on the hill. and in the corridors of power. i think that has already happened. i also think it is the tip of the iceberg, but what is so astonishing about the court filing is that unlike the prior instances in which this goes according to the russian playbook, we have direct information about russian intelligence officials being right there in this operation. before it was about cut outs, but heret is russian officials. russian official number one is identified as someone who has a

direct line to the highest levels of the russian government. we can all understand what that means. that is what the doj says in the filing. in a certain since it is the tip of the iceberg. there is no way in which this is the only aspect of this russian disinformation campaign. it's just giving an indication of what they're trying to do to the country during especially a presidential election cycle. laura: as we talk about ts, congress is in the middle of a heated debate about aiding ukraine against russian invasion. last week, the leading gop presidential candidate, former president donald trump said he would encourage russia to invade nato allies if they don't spend enough on defense. so how does this latest revelation of the ex fbi informant having connections to russian intelligence officials fit into the bigger picture? ryan: i think it is part of vladimir putin's overall strategic plan. his main goal is to do something like divide the west, certainly

to divide nato or have nato break up at a certain point. at some level i think it is to do what he is done in the past, which is to support a candidate who has that as part of their agenda. it is to undermine the competing candidate, which is part of his agenda, and even if he doesn't succeed at having one of them win and the other one lose, the idea that he can inject so much distrust into the body politic in the united states around these issues of u.s. relationships with ukraine, that is what he wants. laura: that is ryan goodman, professor of law and former special counsel into the defense department. thank you so much for your time. ryan: thank you. ♪ william: the u.n. acknowledged today that aid deliveries into gaza have dropped dramatically, threatening a population where

hunger is spreading. that aid is delivered by a u.n. agency that israel recently accused of acting "under the authorization of hamas." some israelis have called for its abolition, and the u.s. has frozen funding. nick schifrin examines the question, and fate, of unrwa. nick: when israel was born, so was unrwa. the you in created the relief and works agency to serve three quarters of a million palestinians who fled or were forced out of what is now israel. 75 years later, it serves their descendants, nearly 6 million palestinians, in gaza and across the region with schools, health clinic, and especially today, humanitarian assistance. but during the october 7 terrorist attack, an israeli

dossier says four genre -- unrwa staffers were involved in kidnapping israelis. six under staffers in total infiltrated into israel. and it said it acts under the authorization and supervision of hamas. israel said it found a hamas tunnel. and germany and a dozen more in response the u.s.and germany and a dozen more countries have frozen funding. unrwa says if the finding doesn't resume, it will have to stop sending aid to gaza in the next months. for two perspectives on the allegations against, and the future of unrwa, we turn to reserve israeli colonel grisha yakubovich, who was the former head of the civil department of coordination of government activities in the territories, known as cogat from 2012 to 2016, and a current expert with the israeli think tank, the miryam institute. and matthias schmale was the unrwa director of operations in gaza from 2017 to 2021, and now advises the u.n. development regional office in ethiopia. thank you very much, welcome both of you to the newshour. the dossier that israel has released on hamas october 7 that

is referred to, not only refers to staffers activity on a tober -- on october 7, but it says 10% of unrwa employees are either palestinian or islamic jihad. you had to fire a half-dozen members for their links to hamas. do you find the israeli dossier credible, and what is your response to it? matthias: to the best of my knowledge -- and i have not seen the dossier myself -- to the best of my knowledge, unrwa itself has not been given substantial evidence to back up the claims that up to 13 unrwa staff were involved in the horror that was inflicted on october 7. secondly, based on my own experience of almost four years in gaza, i find the claim that 10% of unrwa staff are active members of hamas grossly exaggerated.

it consisted of 12-15 people, most of them palestinian, and again in my experience, none of them are closely linked or had sympathies for hamas. nick: is it grossly exaggerated to suggest 10% of unrwa is hamas? col. yakubovich: when the idea that 30 unrwa employees were involved in the horror of october 7, nobody would declare something like that. if you remember, the tunnel that was found under the unrwa headquarter all the technology , under that, is something that will take at least five or six years, meaning this is a huge tunnel with technology from iran and iis not logic that nobody

would see that and know about that. during the last years, international staff actually reached minimal people. all 12,000 officials, almost 99% of them were locals. nobody would actually check for hamas or whatever. nick: respond to that, the idea that the infiltration, so to speak, of unrwa literally underneath headquarters by hamas is not something that happened recently, it would take years, and therefore unrwa would know about it. matthias: in my time, it was evident that there are tunnels all over gaza. you might also know that a former prime minister of israel actually acknowledged that part of the tunnels under the she for hospital -- al shifa

hospital were built by israel during israel's time of occupation. so it's no surprise that there are tunnels under many installations in gaza. what puzzles me is that in my almost four years of relatively regular contact with cogat, this was never brought up as an issue, nor was it brought up as an issue that israel had evidence of 10% of unrwa staff being proactive members of hamas. what i was told is we need unrwa, you are doing good work. we don't like what you say at times publicly, but the services you provide are essential. nick: there is a debate in israel whether unrwa should be replaced. do israeli officials privately tell unrwa and other people that, yes, they do need unrwa? col. yakubovich: i want to be very honest, yes, unrwa is an important player when it comes to providing aid to the people

in gaza. we are not saying the people in gaza don't deserve this aid. but it is done through palestinian sovereignty in gaza and not really unrwa. nobody actually really needs unrwa. you can do the same thing by giving aid to an entity that will be responsible. the moment you have unrwa, who is doing a great job, i'm not saying that unrwa is not an important player that provides food, aid, medical care and treatment at the refugee camps, this is not something i can take away from unrwa. i have been working with them and we even encourage them in the past to do it. the problem is, when that organization, the u.n. flags are used by a terror organization as a cover for terror activity. that is the problem. nick: is unrwa used as cover for

terror, and is there possible replacement? matthias: i have seen no evidence either in my time on the ground in gaza, almost four years, or since that suggests unrwa is used or controlled by hamas. in fact, in 2014, before my time, we ourselves at one point discovered weapons in a school that was abandoned because of military activities. we ourselves alerted israel and clarified with hamas that those weapons had to be removed. so we have over the years done everything to protect the integrity of the organization. i said during my time in gaza that no one including myself wants unrwa to continue another decade, 70 years. unrwa is not there out of self-interest. the only reason unrwa exists is because there is as yet no just solution accepted by both sides.

the minute there's a just solution, palestinians have a state they can call their own, unrwa will cease to exist. nick: take on that point, that matthias just made, that he and other people in charge of unrwa have done as much as they can to try to keep hamas outside of unrwa. has unrwa, has the u.n. done enough? col. yakubovich: there should be an end to unrwa's work in gaza. it has nothing to do with the palestinian state. they can get the money, they can get the aid but they should take , responsibility on themselves so they will not use the cover of the u.n., an important organization, eventually to use it for terror. this is actually what happened with the horror that happened on october 7. nick: thank you very much both.

♪ william: a decision from the alabama supreme court has alarmed doctors, patients, and reproductive rights advocates. on friday, the court ruled that frozen embryos created through in vitro fertilization, or ivf, are legally children, nest -- and thus protected. the designation of personhood could have significant repercussions for reproductive rights. stephanie sy looks at the questions raised by this ruling. stephanie: william, this issue made its way to alabama's supreme court after three families sued when their frozen embryos were taken from a clinic and then accidentally destroyed. they sued under the state's wrongful death of a child act. -- of a minor act. alabama's high court asserted the law applies to all children, born and unborn, including, to the shock of many, frozen embryos. today, the university of

alabama-birmingham health system said it is pausing ivf procedures because of a fear of prosecution. for more i'm joined by mary ziegler, a legal historian and expert on reproduction and health care. mary, thank you as always for being with the newshour. about 2% of all babies born in this country are conceived through assisted reproductive technology. what are the concerns about how this decision will affect reproductive rights and options? mary: i think the decision casts a shadow on a lot of options that usually are available through ivf. for example, if people have extra embryos, they can no longer be destroyed, they can no longer be donated for research in alabama. it's not even clear what the legality of storing them would be, or potentially if they would need to be implanted. then there is a simple fact as we've seen with the university of alabama at birmingham, the threat that if embryos are inadvertently damaged or destroyed, that could lead to lawsuits or even criminal

prosecutions which will have a , tremendous chilling effect on fertility care in the state. stephanie: i want to read an excerpt from the chief justice's concurring opinion -- "the people of alabama have declared the public policy of this state to be that unborn human life is sacred. we believe that each human being, from the moment of conception, is made in the image of god, created by him to reflect his likeness." so the chief justice invokes scripture from the bible in a legal ruling. what is your take on that? mary: think this is a sign of the ascendance of the christian legal movement, which is distinct from what we are used to thinking of. it is not the federalist society, it is part of a conservative legal movement that asserts that the constitution is a christian document, that the nation is a christian nation and that there should be no daylight between church and state when it comes to interpretation of the law. the chief justice was making the that in his view, the people of point alabama have already embraced that decision.

it striking to see this in a court ruling. this is not coming from a social movement. i think it will shift the window and make more likely we will see more language of this kind from other courts. stephanie: we spoke to an ob/gyn and fertility specialist, dr. aimee evazaadeh, about this and she said she is horrified by this decision and what it will mean. dr. evazaadeh: embryos are precious cells. they are very precious. they have the potential to turn into a human being. the potential. an embryo is not a child or a baby. they have a chance to become one. anyone who knows a smallest bit about ivf knows that. an embryo is a chance for a baby. the concern is that patients who are doing testing in alabama, they might be forced to use embryos that they didn't want to use. they might not be allowed to freeze embryos, and they might

have to transfer everything they have. it might change how you do ivf, where people will be freezing eggs and only creating embryos enough to transfer so they have none left over. or what we're seeing now, ivf is going to halt completely. stephanie: those are some of the concerns you also brought up. 11 states have passed laws defining personhood as beginning at fertilization. so should women who are doing ivf or seeking ivf treatment be worried that this alabama decision may affect them? mary: it is hard to say. there are some states where personhood, it's not clear if it is league ready -- legally operative. it is sort of a policy that has been declared by the state but it is not clear how much teeth, if it has teeth in terms of actually affecting people concretely. because some court had to be

first to say we think a fetus or embryo is a person, and now that the alabama supreme court has done this, i think we would inspect to see either legislators or states with similar personhood policies be more willing to make the same kind of move. so i think this is something who should concern people who are pursuing fertility treatment and all of those states and indeed, elsewhere in the country too. stephanie: does it end with this decision, or is there any legal pathway forward? especially given that roe v. wade has been overturned, does this run afoul at all of any federal rights or other constitutional rights? mary: it's hard to say. the alabama supreme court was trying pretty hard to make this a state court ruling to say this was about the interpretation of the state wrongful death of a minor law, which is not something ordinarily that the u.s. supreme court would become involved in. you can imagine federal constitutional claims raised by people want to pursue ivf, but

this is a very conservative u.s. supreme court that's going to be unlikely to recognize new reproductive rights under federal law like a right to procreate. i think while that is theoretically possible, the alabama supreme court is likely to be the last stop in this case. stephanie: mary, you're really an expert on what has happened since the overturning of roe v. wade. where would you put this decision in the spectrum of reactions we've seen since the overton decision? mary: it is a big indicator of what is coming next. i think a lot of americans believe that when the supreme court overturned roe v. wade in the dobbs decision, that was the end, that the people who believed that a fetus or embryo was a person won, and they would move on to other issues. i think it is a reminder that the idea that a fetus or embryo is a rights holding person has been a motivating reason for many to join the antiabortion

movement since its inception in the 1960's. i think we will see much more of this. i think this is a sign of what is to come, in addition to something that will have a tremendous effect on people who are seeking to become parents in the state of alabama. stephanie: mary zigler, thank you. mary: thanks for having me. ♪ william: the murder of george floyd thrust minnesota into the center of the debate over police misconduct. as fred de sam lazaro reports, one effort coming out of that painful period hopes to make traffic stops safer. it's part of our coverage of race matters issues and fred's series, agents for change. fred: for decades, there have been tense relations between law enforcement authorities and minnesota's communities of color, punctuated by high

profile police-involved shootings. >> i have to tell you, i do have a firearm on me. fred: it was the 2016 death of philando castile during a traffic stop near saint paul, and the protests that followed, that brought three twenty something black men together. >> i grew up playing with the castiles, as did andre, and i remember even a conversation that andre and i had where we said, how can we do something to be a part of the solution? >> i think when george floyd occurred, the realization of what we needed to do really came to fruition. fred: floyd's murder set off a light bulb for andre creighton and mychal frelix, each with mbas, and jazz hampton, a lawyer. it also cracked open the door to start up funding for their idea, as venture capitalists, philanthropists and many corporations pledged their support to addressing issues of race and equity.

the three left corporate careers to launch an app they called turnsignl. >> if you are pulled over, simply onto the app. fred: it's marketing slogan is we put an attorney in the passenger seat. the company now has some 50,000 subscribers at $60 a year, and 400 lawyers in all 50 states have signed on. they do not act as attorneys, at least not yet. instead, they are given specific instruction by turnsignl on how to guide the driver to de-escalate. >> we built this training to not only have attorneys look for those verbal and nonverbal cues, but really just be there for our clients to help calm them down in that interaction. >> the number of times, for example, philando castile was pulled over was in the 40s. right, there's a lot of times to be pulled over, so people can be frustrated. it's all about how we can tell them that we're here to give them peace of mind in the moment because if they escalate, then

the officer will escalate. this isn't a court of law, it's the side of the road. >> my goal is to make sure that both parties return home safe. fred: minneapolis attorney nysha operana says her legal credentials bring extra credibility to her value as an observer. she says her virtual presence has helped lower the temperature. operana: i've had several interactions on both ends, where one, either the driver was emotional, upset, trying to prove a point, upset at the officer for pulling them over. and we've been able to tell officers can you please give me , 30 seconds with this driver, to calm that driver down. and it's worked. fred: if the driver decides later to take the incident to court, they have the option to contact the attorney. that potential business is one incentive for turnsignl's lawyers, who pay an annual fee of $1000 to be listed on the app. but operana says there's more. operana: i do this because i

think it's important for the community especially, as a group that might not always have access to justice in the same manner that other people would. we want people to be able to trust the police, you want police to feel safe as well. fred: the apps founders say they regularly seek meetings with law enforcement agencies to explain the app and raise its visibility so it's not perceived as a threat or antagonistic. >> what's going on? >> pulled over for speeding. fred: and co-founder andre creighton just happens to have a recent personal experience to demonstrate, when he was pulled over in suburban minneapolis and got a lawyer on the app. >> yes, yes sir. >> ask him if he's gonna give you a ticket, ask him to please make it out for 64, anything under 65. >> he's not walking back with papers, so we'll see. >> is that your attorney? [laughter]

>> yes. >> you called your attorney over a speeding ticket? fred: did you deserve a ticket? >> i did not get a ticket. i probably deserved a ticket. [laughter] fred: studies show people of color are more likely than white drivers to receive a ticket or be searched or arrested. about 30% of drivers killed in traffic stops in america are black, more than twice their proportion in the general population. >> we've had some real difficulty finding turnsignl users who are willing to share their stories publicly. most were afraid they would be targets of future harassment. we did find one individual who lives on the east coast who was willing to share so long as we use only the audio portion of the zoom interview. user: he was very, very, very aggressive. but when he noticed that i turn the app, he calms his voice. fred: a west african immigrant, he denies any wrongdoing. but he did get a ticket and paid the fine. but between the initial stop and

writing the citation, he says it was the officer who de-escalated. user: a white guy was talking to a black man. fred: the police officer observed a white face on the app, the lawyer? talking to you. you fear that if you talk to us, if you go public, you might be targeted. user: yes, i would be a target because those who are powerless remain powerless. seth: we continue to layer technology on top of what is ultimately not a technological problem. fred: criminology and criminal justice professor seth stoughton is skeptical of how much impact the app will have on entrenched social issues. seth: we did the same thing with body cameras. we did the same thing with dash cameras. if we go back into the late 1990's and early 2000's, here we are 24 years later, still

struggling with the issue of racial profiling and traffic stops. i think the app is probably most promising when it comes to making people feel better. fred: for some users, feeling better makes all the difference. rosaline friedrich, who owns a batik store -- boutique store in st. paul hasn't used the app during a traffic stop. but she feels safer knowing its available. rosaline: every time i have like a weird interaction with the police, or like, during traffic stop stuff. i'm a brown person, i immediately go into -- having it on my phone at all times, makes me feel like i don't ever have to worry about an officer pulling me over. fred: that peace of mind also pays a public health dividend, says turnsignl's mychal frelix. >> racism is a public health crisis. and where you live, where you work and play, factor into your overall health as a human being. and so there's a lot of organizations that still truly do believe in that. fred: blue cross blue shield of

minnesota is among several companies and philanthropies that cover the app's subscription cost, which subsidizes the app's subscription for anyone earning less than $40,000 a year, some 40% of all subscribers. the startup has met its goals so far and, the hope is, as it gets into more and more cars, begins to turn a profit in two years. for the pbs newshour, i'm fred de sam lazaro in minneapolis. william: fred's reporting is a partnership with the under-told stories project at the university of st. thomas in minnesota. ♪ i want to show you some video -- look at that adorable puppy, trying to navigate those windowsills in italy. or this woman, strolling at night through downtown tokyo. or this, a street parade celebrating the chinese lunar new year. none of these is real. they're 100% generated by an artificial intelligence program

created by open ai called sora. and they were created with a very simple text prompt. just a sentence or two saying, "make a video of a stylish woman dressed in black walking down a street in tokyo," and these are the results. the implications of this technology, of being able to create extremely-realistic video with nothing more than a few words of suggestion, is one of the more remarkable, and potentially scary developments we've seen so far in artificial intelligence. oren etzioni studies ai and its implications. he is the founder of truemedia.org, an organization that fights against ai-based disinformation. thanks so much for being here. before we get to the implications of this, i wonder, when you first saw those videos and how they were created, what was your reaction?

oren: i was absolutely terrified. it's the future, and has come very fast and a lot sooner than any of us expected. william: terrified. i have to say i was at first struck by -- i couldn't believe they were able to make such an extraordinarily realistic video with such simple prompts. why does it terrify you? oren: what terrifies me is deepfakes, the use of this technology, which of course has many positive uses, but the use of it to create forgeries and particularly coming up on one of the most consequential elections in history. william: sketch out some of the kinds of things you worry this technology could be used for. oren: we've already had robo calls in new hampshire that was supposed to have been made by president biden, but they weren't. that's nothing compared to seeing videos on social media of different candidates doing things that didn't happen. william: yes, you could

certainly see a latebreaking circumstance right before an election where some nefarious actor posts a video. there is just something that is so convincing about this kind of video. oren: we are visual animals. you see a political candidate being rushed to the hospital, you see talking heads getting on television, his doctor saying it doesn't look good. but it's all fake, and you can see a lot of it coming at once. we used to have state actors doing this, but now practically anybody can do it. william: what is the solution for this? some of the bigger companies say they will put these so-called watermarks that will be imprinted on the video to signal that it is generated by ai. not everyone is going to do that, certainly not the bad actors. how do we get around this? oren: there's no silver bullet.

the problem with watermarks is, what if they are using model that doesn't have watermarks or this identifying characteristic? we are trying to build identification technology so if you upload a video or social media post, we can assess whether it is true or fake. but that can be circumvented as well. we need better regulations, better education, and we need everybody to chip in. william: there are times when you can see the fakery. ai seems to have a hard time depicting human hands, for some reason. even openai on sora posted some examples were clearly the software is off. but isn't it just going to be this constant escalating arms race of new creations and then trying to play catch-up with detecting that fakery? oren: this is moving so fast, it's going to get worse before it gets better. with low resolution video that

looks like it shot by a phone, you often will not be able to tell whether this is fake or real. william: right now i'm talking to you via skype and you're sitting in mexico. it's hard to know that that is really you sitting there. oren: we have an instance of a scam where somebody gave away $25 million because he thought he was talking to his colleagues on a video call. it is absolutely a case of be careful what your eyes are telling you. william: congress and the white house have been debating what rules or regulations they could do to try to help solve this issue. do you think there is a tool or law that could come out of washington that might address this? oren: we are seeing laws and regulations coming out of the states, already passed in several states including california, washington, minnesota, etc., prohibiting deepfakes, 30, 90 days before the election. so i do think there are things

we can put in place. i don't know if they will come out of washington, but they will be in place. it won't solve the problem, because foreign adversaries can do this sort of thing as well. we need to step up and do whatever we can. william: so you think the genie is sort of out of the bottle here? oren: the genie is out of the bottle. it's just a question of how much damage it will do in what is a very close election. william: if that really is you sitting there, it is a pleasure to talk to you. thank you so much. oren: the pleasure is mine. ♪ william: remember there is much more online, including a look at a new poverty reduction program that aims to help all new and expecting mothers in flint, michigan. that's at pbs.org/newshour. and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm william brangham. on behalf of the entire

"newshour" team, thank you so much for joining us. >> major funding for "the pbs newshour" has been provided by -- ♪ >> moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions, and friends of "the newshour," including jim and nancy bildner, and the robert and virginia shiller foundation. the ford foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide.

and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions -- ♪ this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> this is "pbs newshour west" from weta studios in washington and our bureau at the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.]

wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. now you won't miss a thing. this is the way. the xfinity 10g network. made for streaming. -buongiorno. i'm lidia bastianich, and teaching you about italian food has always been my passion. just like that. you got that right. it has always be about cooking together and building your confidence in the kitchen. for me, food is about gathering around the table to enjoy loved ones. your family is going to love it. share a delicious meal and make memories. tutti a tavola a mangiare. "lidia's kitchen: meals & memories." -funding provided by... -every can of cento tomatoes is born in italy, where they are grown and ripened in sun-drenched fields and then harvested by local farmers who select them just for us.