william: good evening, i'm william brangham. on the "newshour" tonight,

efforts to curing pollution turns to heavy industries such as cement and steel that contribute enormously to global warming. then gang violence in haiti displaces hundreds of thousands of people and traps americans trying to flee. and a new investigation detail house police tactics meant to stop people often end up killing them. >> officers went too far, too fast. too long. and they were making errors in the way they applied this force that wept beyond best safety practices. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. and friends of the newshour including jim and nancy bildner

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and friends of the "newshour quss."this was made possible bye corporation for public broadcasting and contributions to your local pbs nation from -- station from viewers like you. thank you. vanessa: i'm vanessa ruiz in for stephanie sy for news hour west. here's the headlines. initial salvage operations under way at the site of the baltimore bridge collapse. one giant crane and a smaller one arrived today with more coming. it'll clear away the mangled metal as well as the cargo ship that hit the francis scott key bridge but officials warn it's a mammoth job. >> it's not going to be days or

weeks or mops. this is going to take time. every single phase we have to focus on safety of the people doing the work. we have to make sure that we are doing it in cooperation and collaboration with all the parties that are -- that need to be involved inside this work. we have to make sure we're doing it in an environmentally sound way. and we have to make sure we're focusing on completion. >> also today the white house announced president biden will visit baltimore next week to view the operation. former senator and vice-presidential candidate joe lieberman was laid to rest today in stanford, connecticut. family and friends remembered him for his bipartisanship. they included al gore, the democrat's 2000 presidential nominee who chose liberman as his running mate. >> i saw him ready to reclaim friendships that had been seared by disagreements. ready to look for ways to bridge divisions.

ready to seek reconciliation. ready to stand for his principles. always. >> lieberman passed away wednesday after suffering a fall. he was 28 years old. -- he was 82 years old. israeli prime minister netanyahu says he's ready to return to mediated talks with hamas. his office issued a state today saying he, quote, approved the next round of talks in the coming days in doha and cairo. meanwhile, israel hit syria today with the deadliest air strikes in years. an independent syrian war monitoring group reports 44 people were killed, mostly syrian troops. the attacks came mainly outside aleppo, targeting the depots of hezbollah militants backed by iran. israel has stepped up attacks since the war began that. war put a damper on good friday

services in jerusalem. fewer people than usual carried crosses through the old streets. elsewhere, pope francis conducted traditional services in the vatican. several villages reconstructed the crucifixion as they have for years. one man was nailed to the cross for the 35th time. >> i can't say how long i will do this because my body is getting old. kibt say if i'll do it again next year, it'll depend on my body. >> in ukraine, russia lawmpled more attacks overnight. almost00 missiles an drones struck power plants in a wide-rain onlying assault across central and southern ukraine. it's the late nest a wave of russian attack fact -- attacks on ukraine's power system. back in this country, e.p.a. set strict emission standards for

heavy vehicles today. 30% of heavy duty trucks will need to be zero emission vehicles by 2032. this will cut and estimated one billion tons of dpreenhouse gas emissions. a passing of note, louis gossette -- gossett junior died today. he gained national renown and an emmy in the tv mini series "roots." his oscar winning role was in "an officer and a gentleman" in 1982. >> where you been all your lives? at an orgy? listen to mick jagger music, bad mouthing your country, i'll bet. better stop eyeballing me boy. you're not worthy enough to look your superiors in the eye. use your preferral vision, understand? >> yes, sir. >> every time i say understand, i want the whole group to say yes, sir.

understand? >> yes, sir. >> understand? >> yes, sir. >> louis gossett jr. was 87 years old. still to come on "the newshour," the georgia legislature passes new voting rules aced of the general election. an oklahoma city councilmember faces a recall election for his ties to white nationalism. david brooks and jonathan capeheart weigh in on the week's political headlines. and beyonce drops a new genre-defying album. >> when we focus on ways to reduce america's carbon emissions we talk about how we generate electricity and the vehicles we use to get around. that's because those two sectors each contribute about a quarter to this country's pollution. thanks to the rapid growth of renewable energy and more efficient electric cars, those sectors are starting to get much cleaner. but another major source of pollution is what's known as heavy industry.

that's making things like cement and steel and that sector has been much slower to adapt. this week, the biden administration pledged $6 billion for a series of pilot projects in 20 different states to try and spur a green revolution in those stris. so will this help move the need snl for that, we are joined by rebecca dill who study house to clean up heavy tri-for the climate works industry. rebecca, thank you for being here. energy secretary jennifer granholm says this is the biggest investment the united states has ever made in this industry. but it sounds like we haven't really tried to do that much thus far. so i'm trying to understand, how big and investment is this really? >> that's a great question. when we talk about the industrial sector, we're talking about manufacturing, cob instruction, all the activities that make things as opposed to

using energy. and so $6 billion is by a very large margin the largest investment, not that america has ever made but that anybody has ever made in cleaning up the greenhouse gas emissions from this sector. but the manufacturing sector in the united states is like a few trillion dollars a year as a portion of our economy. and so this is a fantastic down payment but obviously there's more to address. >> given that there's a green energy revolution going on right now, why have these slices of the industry been somewhat slow to catch up? >> yeah, so, that's a great question. i think one of the reasons why we've seen less progress in the industrial sector is just that people only real dwri started working seriously on it in large numbers maybe about five years ago.

people have been working on electric veegs and renewable electricity since the 1990's or depending on how you count it maybe the 1970's. and so we're at an earlier stage here. there's also additional complexities that comes because in industrial activity, often the greenhouse gas emotions don't just come from using energy but the chemical reactions happening to make the materials and products. so you have to not just block out clyou have to change the nature of the product. so this is why, those are some of the reasons why it's been slow for the this sector and why we need the acceleration for this. >> so this investment, as i said is a series of pilot projects awarded to different companies

and ventures that applied for these. what kinds of things are getting awarded these grants and what's it going to look snriek. >> so actually one of the things that's so exciting about this project or about this program is that most of the prompts are the stage after pilot projects. most of this there's always been a pilot and this investment will take it to actual commercial production. and so what we're looking at are things like using hydrogen instead of coal to make steel. using electrified processes to make cement. using alternative types of cement like, for example, something called limestone and call site clay cement. lc-3, that has inherntly lower emissions associated with it. also there are projects that are using carbon capture and storage. basically what that means is

that you keep using the same process that emits co-2 but instead of letting the co-2 go out into the atmosphere you capture it and pump it into geological formation where it can be store forward long time. >> the energy department took great pride that 80% of these projects will be ending up in disadvantaged communities that had experienced, quote, years of di vestment. what are they referring to there? >> yeah, so, i think that's an exciting part of this. often the areas around industrial development experience a disproportionately high of air and water pollution that harms the local population. also, as many americans know, we've had significant de-industrialization in many parts of the united states in recent decades. so for beth of those reasons, d.o.e. wants to make sure that

the communities that host these projects are the communities that were impacted by those -- by the pollution and the job losses. so those communities really benefit from this environment and the tens of thousands of jobs or more that will come from these projects. >> rebecca, thank you for talking with us. >> thank you so much for having me. >> this week the u.n. said over 1,500 haitians have been killed so far this year because of a crisis it calls cataclysmic. for nearly a month now the country has been engulfed in a wave of gang violence. the prime minister said he'd resign as soon as a transitional

council is created to select a new prime minister. so far there's no breakthrough. nick has this report and a warn, there are disturbing images in this story. >> this week, parts of port-au-prince are a shell of a city this capital of more than a million is burning. outgunned police patrol but the streets are strewn with left behind garbage and left behind bodies. there's no protection for the people. >> people with just waking up sand seeing dead bodies. >> american era charles has lived in haiti for more than a decade. she and her family reason displaced twice from their home near the airport. >> when they first attacked the airport that really changed everybody's sense of what do we do now? the places where we thought were safe are no longer safe. >> it was one month ago today that airport employees ran for their lives after gangs closed the airport, torched police stations and broke into haiti's

two biggest prison, releasing more than 4,000 inmates. in kawntry used to violence this was different. designed to bring down the government of unelected prime minister ariel henry who assumed player after the former president was assassinated in 2021. >> this has taken it to a whole new level. a level i've never seen in my decade being here. we had to leave our home on march 3. the night before we left we had to move our kids into one room of the house. we slept on the floor to avoid any kind of -- the possibility of gunfire coming into our home and hurting one of us. >> in nine days, u.s. government-sponsored helicopters have evacuated more than 400 u.s. citizens from port-au-prince to neighboring dominican republic. and a u.s. sponsored flight and commercial planes have deparred from the capital city.

in total, 500 americans have left. charles is the guardian to two twin haitian girls who don't yet have passports. even if they did, they're not evacuating the noncitizen children of u.s. citizens. >> i can't leave my kids mind. i've been talking to haitian and they offer. so far no one can come up with a solution. >> i think if you can show a familial tie through marriage or birth or whatever there should be an exception. >> brian certain is -- brian stern is president and c.e.o. of a veteran-led organization to evacuate people. >> if you're a green cardholder married to an american citizen you should have an exception. >> project dynamo received more than 100 rescue requests and

this week evacuated 51 canadian and american citizens from port-au-prince. they evacuated americans from sudan, afghanistan and ukraine but he said evacuating americans through the dominican republic has been difficult. >> dominican republic is frustrating as far as yeting clearance. it means american citizens are stuck longer surrounded by gangs. >> the anyone can republic has closed its air spice to splieght from the -- flights from haiti and mostly closed the land boarer to haitians despite the humanitarian cry crisis. across haiti more than 360,000 people are displaced around 1.4 million haitians are on the brink of starvation. >> people are dying. dying because of fear. dying because of stress. >> gary is with core, a humanitarian group helping feed 1,000 families. he says the country is being

choked and starved. >> airport is blokd. some roads are blocked. the ports are blocked. you are wondering if after maybe how many days maybe you might not be table find what you need. we could have a better haiti. i would like to live in my country in peace. >> but today there's only war stealing the country's future. for the pbs news hour i'm nick schifrin. >> the death of george floyd which sparked a national reckoning over policing resulted in a police technique that's considered nonlethal. a new investigation led by the

associated press has now found that is much more common than had been thought. john yang has our report. >> the investigation found between 2012 and 2021. more than 1,000 people died after police used physical force that was not intenned to be lethal including batons, stun gun, physical restraints and chemical agents. the oldest victim was 95. the youngest, 15. only 28 of the officers involved were charged. and the police role was cited in only about half the case meaning that many more americans have died at the hands of police than previously known. the associated press investigation was done with the howard center for investigative journalism at the university of maryland and arizona state university and pbs's frontline whose report on this will air april 30. a.p. investigative reporter reese was part of the program. how does the use of force not ended to be lethal end up in

deaths? >> we found in howfns cases what happened was officers went too far. too fast. too long. and they were making errors in the way they applied this force that went beyond best safety practices. so they would hold people down on the grown on their chest in a way where these people couldn't breathe. their hearts couldn't function as properly. and that's exactly what happened to george floyd. or in o'cases they'd use their stun guns, too many times, and for too long. >> when you look at the victims in these cases, is there a common thread about where these instances happen? who the victims are? why they were being restrained? >> yeah, we found that in a number of cases, the location was actually the homes of those who died. that was because sometimes they were having medical emergencies. like potentially drug joaf doses

and their families were calling 911 to get medical assistance and the cops arrived and in order to try to control the person to get medical help the cops went too far. and another thing we found as far as commonality is that the toll fell hardest on black americans. even though they represent only 12 october they have nation's population, we found that they were about a third of those who died. and probably the last commonality we found was why they were in these situations. again, it was mental health crises. it was a lot of drugs. and that's what brought them to the attention of law enforcement. >> in your report you say about half the cases, only about half is the role the police cited as either causing or contributing to the death. in the other cases, what did they say?

how do they attribute the deaths? >> they attribute in it a couple of ways. first, some of these were attributed to a controversial label for a condition that some critics say is a way to justify excessive force. and that label is excited delirium. that's meant to be a way to say someone is highly agitated. their heart is racing. they're sweating profusely and police and other people who subscribe to this believe that that in and of itself is life threatening. so that's how it's used to sort of shift the blame away from the force. in other cases we found someone's pre-existing medical conditions were blamed. or even their mental health problems. and then in other cases legitimately they had very toxic levels of drugs in their system. and that made them vulnerable when police used even just minimal force. >> there's been so much focus on

police shootings. shooting people who are trying to stop or trying to arrest. is there anyone who keeps track of these cases, cases where the nonlethal use of force ends up in a death? >> the federal government is supposed to be tracking it through the d.o.j. intu d.o.j. struggled for years to track them in an effective, complete way. d.o.j. says that's partly because local police departments won't cooperate and send in the information to their states which can then send it in to the feds. and then c.d.c. tracks it nominally through its mortality death data. but that's not really designed to capture everything so it doesn't capture everything base odden what we found. >> it sounds like you'd say a lot of these are instances where the officer goes too far or just does it in the wrong way. is this basically a training problem? >> that's what some of the

experts tell us. you know, many departments and many states get training right. and they have instances like the kind we saw where everyone gets out safe. everyone goes home at the end of the night. but there are departments that aren't following best practices. and the experts told us that if they would just modernize, update and reassess what policing associations like the international association of chiefs of police prescribe, then maybe we would have fewer deaths. >> you talk about officers going too far. or putting a hold on too long are. there examples you can cite? >> yes. we had one example that we mentioned in the article yesterday. where a texas man was shocked up to 11 times with a taser stun gun. and he was held in what is known as prone restraint.

that's pinned down on the ground on your chest. where it compresses your lungs around makes it stuff to -- tough to breathe. he was they would held that way for 22 minutes. to give you a frame of reference, george floyd was held down for roughly 9 1/2 minutes. >> reese, thank you very much. >> thank you. william: georgia was ground zero for false claims of election fraud in the 2020 presidential election. that state was decided by fewer than 12,000 votes. georgia is in the spotlight again as joe biden and donald trump head for a rematch. as laura explains, new election laws could add additional complications for voters. >> in the final hours of the legislative session last night, georgia republicans passed a series of new rules that head to

the governor's desk. among the changes to the laws are making it easier to challenge voter eligibility. expanding access for independent candidates to get on the ballot. expanding use of paper ballots. and restricting who can serve as election workers. sam poll triks porter in atlanta. he's here to walk through some changes. thanks for joining. let's start with the new rules to challenge voter eligibility. how do those work? >> this is probably the most prominent change in the legislation passed late last night and this comes amid efforts by, you know, a hand full of individuals to file challenges to the eligibility of thousands of voters at a time that has proliferated since the 2020 election. these new rules passed by georgia republicans would basically lay out some reamy specific grounds for sustaining one of these challenges. things like casting a ballot or claiming the homestead exemption

in another state. republicans say that these are forward rails to cut down on superfluous challenges. democrats insist the rule will only embolden individuals driven by conspiracy theories who are seeking to toss thousands if not tens of thousands of voters off the rolls. >> speaking of those who have been emboldened by conspiracy theories. there have been more than 100,000 challenges to votes for the georgia since the last leakes law in 2021. only a few of those have been successful. but what's the real impact of challenges like that? >> i think the big zest that these challenges over-burden already other-worked election offices. georgia election law has been changed almost every year since the 2020 election. there are a lot of rules and regulations for election officials to keep up with. each one of these challenges requires research and an adjudication process that

election staff have to deal with. another ramification is that voters feel confused when they see their vote challenged. they have to go through hoops and hurd tols cure that challenge. to make sure that they're able to vote. because again most of these challenges end up willing tossed without probable cause. the secretary of state does regular list maintenance. that captures a lot of folks who should not be on the roles. there aren't many waiting that have grounds for removal. >> some republics but mostly democrats are concern about the effects of third party candidates this election cycle. what's he change when it comes to third party candidates and what do you think the result will be? >> this was a surprise measure tacked on to this bill late last night. i was surprised to see it when i was flipping but this 24-page

legislation after 10:00 p.m. yesterday. i'm not sure who slid this in there or what their rationale was for doing it. but i think the big takeaway is that the georgia presidential election was decided by just urn 12,000 votes. so when you have a third party on the ballot that can certainly play a role in swaying which way the election goes in a tight race. now just one night of cautious, this requires a third party candidate to already be on the ballot in 20 other states. the example we hear the most, robert f. kennedy jr., has not reached that threshold yet. >> conspiracy thai nearlies and -- theories and lies about election fraud reason front and center especially in states like georgia. do you think this legislation will quell concerns for voters? >> i think this is an important point. since the 2020 election we've seen several attempts to revise georgia election law and in many cases these moves have been

driven by false claims about election fraud in 2020 that have persisted several years on. we heard last night from one democratic lawmaker who said that this is a bet like negotiating with terrorists. you know, to negotiate with election deniers. people that no matter how many change yos uh need to georgia election law will never really be satisfied as long as these conspiracy theories cob to persist and it's a bit of a vicious cycle. i think these next elections will continue to test the staying power of some of these false claims against election fraud that emerminged in the leadoff to the 2020 season. that sam greenloss glass of we, everything of. >> thanks so much.

>> the rural city of enid oklahoma, there'll be a recall election next tuesday over allegations of racism and white supremacy. commissioner judd blevins was confronted at a candidate forum this week by residents who want to oust him for his alleged ties to a white nationalist group. while blevins has tried to blunt the criticism it has sharply divided this small town. i spoke recently to "newshour's correspondent adam kemp who has been following this closely. let's go back to start of this year. judd blevins in office for about a year. was any of his past association known before he was elected? >> yeah, when he was running for the city commissioner spot which makes him part of enid's city council in 2023, the local newspaper did write a story that detailed some of his relationships with white nationalist groups including identity europa, the main group here that he's allege to have had been part of.

it detailed also that he had attended the 2017 unite the right rally in charlottesville. and when confronted by citizens he had no comment basically and wouldn't deny that he was part of one of these groups. >> so that was last year. who started this current recall effort to get him out of office? >> it was started by the enid social justice committee, a group of citizens that were concerned about his election. specifically i talked to connie vickers and nancy presnow who are members of the group, lifelong enid citizens. they confronted him and held up a giant sign they had alernl -- enlarged that showed him at the rally in charlottesville holding a torch and askinged him point-blank, is this you? blevins did not answer their question. according to them ran away from them. i ended up talking to those two women just about confronting

blevins. >> fit walked like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. and you're not calling -- name calling if you call ate duck. same with a nazi. >> i was going on facebook, i went to a certain facebook page. i went under comments. and there i saw this picture and i was just, you know, petrified we had a city councilman, a guy running for city council, that was -- had been at shrltsville. i started digging. i posted pictures. nancy posted pictures. we started a campaign against him. >> that group ended up collecting nearly 350 signatures to initiate the recall petition. >> has blevins answered questions about this? has he said anything more recently about his associations or not? >> for the longest time he would neither confirm nor deny whether he was a member of these groups or, you know, white nationalists, or believed in white nationalist ideals.

this past week at a forum held in enid for the two candidates running for the spot he confirmed the attended the 2017 unite the right rally in charlottesville and gave this reason as why he felt the need to attend. >> i felt it was important to protest the removal of sta cheufs american soldiers, american figures. if they remove statues of men who fought in the civil war they'll move on to whoever they want. defending, protecting, protesting against the removal of historical americans is important to me. it's our history. it's our heritage. it's who we are. >> blevins was later asked to denounce white nationalism and he said he couldn't denounce what he never was. >> if blevins keeps his seat and the recall fails what do resident says this means for their community? >> talking to residents, they're frankly embarrassed. i think a lot of them are embarrassed he was elected in the first place. now they're pretty petrified

he'll be re-elected and what that will do to their city's reputation. beyond that, talking to folks, they're worried about how the city will go about attracting businesses to come do business there in their town and their ongoing relationship with vance air force base, based there in enid. >> if someone looked at this and said, this is just one small city down illinois in oklahoma. what's the largest connection? is there a larger connection to the white nationalist movement in this country? >> i talked with pete, who is an expert on white nationalism in the u.s. started studying it after the oklahoma city bombing actually in 1995. and he said that white nationalists were emboldened after the election of donald trump in 2016 and that getting into local elections has been a goal of theirs. >> the dij of having white sphrem cysts holding local office is that this is part of their agenda in terms of them

being able to implement, execute various strategies, various plans as it relates to them want toking to create a white ethno state, for example, which is obviously a larger plan on the horizon for. the but there are smaller steps along the way that need to happen and having people hold local office allow them to achieve smaller steps to the ultimate goal which is white ethnicity. >> he went on to say that beyond getting into local elections and winning them is the threat of normalizing white supremacy is one of the biggest threats facing this nation. >> newshour communities correspondent adam kemp, thanks for this great reporting. >> thanks. >> a campaign fundraiser nets biden millions and a stock

market debut could potential net trump billions. on that and the other political stories shaping the week we turn to the analysis of brooks and capeheart. that's new york columnist david brooks and jonathan capeheart of "the washington post." thanks for being here. let's talk about this money race that the going on. biden had last night this event in new york city. radio city music hall. apparently the most lucrative fundraising event in american political history, $25 million. former presidents out there celebrating him. does this money matter? especially when you're running against the master of free media, donald trump. does it mat her. >> not at all. those people wasted $25 million. money mats for the politics if you have no name recognition, you want to get known and have an organization. once you hit a certain threshold 9/11 a well-funded senate race it doesn't matter. you're just making the rubble bounce. when people are seeing 13, 14

commercials a night they're not noticing. and it's doubly true this time because both donald trump and joe biden have been president before. hillary clinton spent twice as much in 2016 than donald trump did and he still beat her. i think if you think people who own tv stations don't have enough revenue and you want to put more money in their pocks, give to these campaigns. >> or give to pbs. >> do you think it matters? >> yes. david, you're focused on television and campaign ads but that money is being used to open campaign offices around the country. key districts. it's about hiring staff. state directors. local directors. it's putting, as the campaign would say, boots on the ground to get out the vote. and that is where the money is most needed and most important. especially in a presidential election that's going to be determined by which side gets its people out to vote. and if you are the biden

campaign, you definitely like the position that you're in having a 2-1 cash on hand and fundraising advantage over donald trump. >> it seems like that's something you want as opposed to being at the other end of the ratio. >> if you reduce a campaign spend big 50% the amount of reduction in the actual vote that campaign gets is min us kuehl. so there's just this long run degree bait between most political sign scientists who say money is vastly underrated. and most political candidates who say, if i cab get more money i'll win. >> i want to ask about this, the trump truth social rocketing on the stock market. what do you make of this? that a company that's the economic fundamentals don't seem that strong yet it debuts on the stock market like it is the next greatest thing. how do you view that? >> its market valuation is 2,000 times revenues. a lot of companies have market

valuations like reddit or meta that are two triesms knew. this is out of control. it's people who are -- you're seeing who is investing, it's not hedge fund people. it's individual investors. you have people who just like trump and want to give him money. two, some people think he'll win the white house and truth social will start making money in. any case it looks like a side -- a wraparound to give donald trump and his campaign a lot of money which it seems to be doing. >> there are campaign finance restrictions because we don't like the idea of someone just handing a wheelbarrow full of cash to a potential next president. and there are report here's that there's one billionaire invest who are who put a lot of money into tiktok who now put a lot of money into trump's new company. those ethical questions don't go away though. >> they don't. but when you're donald trump do you care? no. you can tell him -- show him all

the rules. say, you know, you're bushing that form. you're violating that rule. and to him what does he care? he'll push the ebb ve lope. he'll to what he wants to do. and then he'll constituent sith back and watch the process play itself out and while the process plays itself out he continues to live his life as it was before. so -- your next question? >> ok. my next question. i want to talk about what happened with ron in a mcdaniel at nbc. for those who are not following this, she was hierd by nbc to be an on-air contributor. she's former chairperson of the republican national committee. and there was a revolt amongst many nbc anchors who said, we can't have someone who actively tried to undo the last election be on our payroll and be on our airwaves. how do you -- what do you make of how that played out? >> i was glad they had the instinct to get more trump supporting people on the air. i think that's something we all

need to work on. but here was someone clearly over the line. to be on our air, in our newspapers, you got to have some intellectual credibility. some primary commitment to the truth. and the truth above partisanship. and she was someone who clearly fails that test. i'm so old-fashioned this our founder here, jim lehrer, didn't vet. he thought, journalists, we don't do that. i don't go as far as jim did. but i think there's a different between being a politico, which, i admire them, and what we do. we're supposed to represent the truth first and foremost and criticize the parties. their job is to be partisan. there are people who have gone from being politico to being a journal us, george stephanopoulos comes to mind. lots of people. but it's a different job with a different set of priority a different set of ethics to get somebody right off the r.n.c. on the air as an analyst strikes me as a gigantic mistake. >> you are an employee of nbc,

msnbc, an anchor on one of the wonderful shows on that network. how did you respond? >> let's be clear. theron in a mcdaniel hire wugz and nbc news hire. i'm at msnbc, not nbc news. and when the announcement was made, email came into the inbox. i sent -- from my team, i wrote in response, i want to be clear. she will never be on our show. for the exact reasons david talked about. it is -- i have no -- this is not a partisan issue. this was a democracy issue. every week, saturday and sunday, there's at least one block on my show where we talk about either the threats to democracy, how democracy is at risk, the role trump is playing at putting our democracy at risk. to have someone come on my show where my -- first and foremost, no matter who is watch, my duty is to present the facts. the privilege i have is to be

able to say, as an opinion writer and as a prospective host on msnbc, is i get to say what i think about the facts i reported. it would do the show no gooded on do my viewers no favors and would be a disservice to put someone on like ron in a mcdam. and tiff say that our -- i have to say that our -- that rashida jones made it clear after it was announced but before the story in the "wall street journal," made it very clear. you guys have editorial independence. you do not have -- >> you choose if she comes on or not. >> she didn't have to tell me that. i knew that. that's what the leadership is likethere so i agree exactly with what david said. ron in a mcdam had no business being a paid contributor at nbc. >> david this gets to a point that journalists, a very difficult issue for a lot of journalists. which is how do you represent

this slice of the country, the maga slice of america that belief fervently in the things they believe but yet it's difficult to have a conversation with people if you can't even agree on simple facts like who was legitimately elected? >> this is a problem decades in the making. when i started as a police reporter in chicago there were tons of working class guys there. i guess in my case tended to be guys. they had no college degree. it became over the course of the decades if you wanted to work in journalism you had to have a college degree. suddenly we're solution off a majority of the country. those people felt their voice wasn't heard. so there's a populist revolt and now you've got people who are supportive of donald trump but who violate our standards. they don't live up to the standards of basic -- honesty. just going to respect the truth. i do think there are a lot of people out there who would fit both bills. good journalists absupport donald trump there as magazine called "compact magazine" that's more populist. last place called the claremont

institute in california that's more populist. i think they're out there. we have to work harder. i think we have to work harder to find those people and let their voices be heard. >> than, would you have had ron in a mcdaniel on as a guest or someone like that as a guest? some of the issue is she's being paid by my organization and she's one of us. but you're open to us as journalists talk to people who challenge the election. >> i'm not having someone on air who tries to tell me two plus two equals five. that's bare minimum. there's no evidence at all the 2020 election was stolen from anyone. so if you done meet that bar, there's no need for me to have you on my show. i'm not interested in having an argument. i'm interested discussing the issues. i had former -- arkansas governor asa hutchinson on my show twice. i asked him on air, he was running for president the first time i asked him, the basic

questions, where are you on the 2020 election. where are you on this? where are you on that? it was my first time asking him those questions. was i figured if you're coming on my show you know where i'm coming from. i asked those question he cleared those bars, then we talked about policy. which in the end is what we are -- >> and you candice agree on policy, that's part of the process. just in the last minute or so we have left. joe lieberman's passing today brought out all sorts of thoughts and feelings about whether moderates can live in this world and whether they have a future. i know you knew him well. can you tell us about your time with him? >> my main memory, when i learned he died, there's a tradition in judaism that a man is supposed to sing to their wife a as long as, most of us don't because we don't like to hear ourselves sing. but joe would sing it to his wife. it was so sweet. so beautiful. just praising her at the end of each week.

just a sweet guy. >> did you have memories you want to share? >> i didn't the the senator well. as a journalist he'd come in for board meet, just an all around decent person. a person in the job for the right reasons. trying to do the right thing. what was best for the party from his per spiskt but also what was best for the country. when al gore, vice president gore, chose him to be his vice-presidential running mate in 2000, you know, that was a huge moment. it was a huge moment certainly for him. it was a huge moment for the country. senator lieberman was the first jewish american nominee of any party. and so to me, that will be the senator's legacy. >> jonathan capeheart, david brooks, so nice to see you. thanks for being here.

>> bejohn say noles carter has just dropped her latest album. it's called "cowboy carter" and is quickly becoming one of the most talked about records of the year. how this superstar's new work is deeply rooted in country music. >> if it's beyonce, it's big. if it's venturing into an unexpected arena of music it's even bigger. >> ♪ this ain't texas ♪ >> cowboy carter checks beth of those boxes and features some of country's biggest stars. candice duffy covers race, gender and entertainment for "the root." beyonce herself said recently this ain't a country album this is a beyonce album. but the attention is because she's going into the country music world. what do you see going on? >> before she introduced this record she vaguely referenced performing at the 2016 country music awards with the chicks and

how unwelcome she felt in that space. even though the performance was the highest rate 15d-minute segment in the show's history. it was still pulled down from the award show's website as well as their social media because people were so outraged that she performed. so here we have this 27-track album, it's very vast. very experimental. almost 80 minutes long. where she reimagines country music, not in a traditional way but in a beyonce kind of way. she puts her own spin on what country music means to her. >> she said the past experience caused her to, quote, take a deeperive into the history of country music. tell us more about what you hear, what kind of sounds, what kind of people are included. what has she done? >> she pays homage to linda martell the first commercially successful black come in country. , also the first black woman to perform at the grand old opry.

so she's introducing certain songs in the record and even talks about genres and how confined they can be for black artist. dolly parton makes an appearance as well. beyonce covered "jolene." >> ♪ jolene i'm warning you don't come for my man ♪ >> dolly said she'd love besay to do this. that she'd make it as big and whitney houston made "i will always love yao." >> this does play into country music's often difficult history with black meu decisions, with women musicians not getting a lot of air play. what's the thinking about how much impact beyonce can have? >> she made history when texas hold embecame the first song from a black woman on the hot country songs chart earlier this

year. we already see black artists having their records streamed more, people are buying their music because beyonce gave them that co-sign that push. i'm excited to see, especially when it comes to awards season how "cowboy carter" will be recognized. >> beyonce herself keeps experimenting. new sounds, new surprises often. where do you see her going? where is this all coming from? what drives her? >> what drives beyonce is, i want to say the element osm surprise. every beyonce project is very unpredictable. you don't know what you're going to get but it's going to be a history lesson. it's exciting. she keeps music exciting regardless of the genre we saw wit "renaissance" when she paid homage to disco music and house music. now we're seeing it continue with "cowboy carter." >> she knows she has the power to get attention. >> absolutely. i feel like whether it's visual

or the way she uses languagering herlicism, she know house to captivate audiences. but it's important because she makes everyone feel welcome. black and brown people for free, when it comes to her music and shows as well, and then incorporating the lgbtq community has been liberating for all types of people. >> "cowboy carter," out today. candice mcduffy of "the root," thank you very much. >> thank you. >> be shower to tune in to "washington week" tonight for a look at the tacialg contrast between the biden and trump campaigns in this area's historic rematch. on pbs news weekend, the next in our series, america's safety net. what's at stake for millions of americans on medicaid as states

re-evaluate how they offer health insurance. that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm william brangham. on behalf of the wire newshour team, thanks for joining us. >> major funding for the pbs newshour provided by -- >> it was like an aha moment. this is what i love doing. early stage companies have this energy that energizes me. these are people who are trying to change the world. when i volunteer with women entrepreneur it's the same thing. i'm helping people reach their dreams. i'm thieving by helping others every day. people who know, know b.d.o. >> and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. and friend of the newshour including kathy and paul anderson and camila and george smith. the walton family foundation.

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and from our bureau at the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university.

>> joe biden