a futurist and a way to lay the foundation for a better tomorrow. this week on fing line. next i am trying to get folks to think about the future not as a thing we hurtled towards, not a weight that is going to crash over us, but i think we make consciously to the decisions that we make x is the

future bleak or hopeful? not futurist ari while it is out with a series of brief history of the future, which invites viewers to see some of the key ideas and technologies that could shape our future. from how we get our energy to our food. >> we can make it delicious, there is so much creativity in the food sector. next to where we lived. >> 3-d printing is a living contender in space construction. >> and even how humans connect with one another. >> the sustainable city is much more enjoyable for the people who live in it. >> but can we really solve our most profound problems? >> i know how bad things can get right now things are pretty bad, but the fact of the matter is we are making progress, i would rather be alive now anywhere on the planet, any gender, race, then 200 years ago. >> what does futurist ari say now? >> firing line with margaret

hoover is made possible in part by vanessa and henry coronel, the fair-weather foundation, peter and mary calico, the best and robin l curry foundation, the mckenna family foundation, charles schwab, the eric and wendy schmidt defined for his strategic innovation. corporate funding is provided by stevens inc. and by pfizer inc. re wallick, welcome to firing line. >> thank you for having me. x you are an author, a futurist, the founder of an initiative that focuses on the future of humanity. what is a futurist? >> there is a common misconception, which is a futurist products tomorrow, what is going to happen. look, people have been doing this for centuries, so we kind of think about tomorrow, but a

professional working futurist like myself, we don't protect the future, we study megatrends, where almost anthropologists from tomorrow looking backwards. so, megatrend is something like the demographics or population or climate change, things that have been happening for decades and will unfurl for decades, then we look at how those megatrends will impact us in the years to come, and from that, we start to develop the story's, scenarios, and from that, we help people, organizations, countries, governments make better decisions about tomorrow. >> what is an example of the megatrend? >> something like climate based migration. as we look forward to mobilizing hundreds of millions of people over the coming decades will be moving specifically because of climate based trends. >> you use the verb futuring, why do you make it a? >> more often than not, we think of the future as a noun,

this thing that is out there that we are heading toward. i think of it as a verb, something we are doing right now, it is how you say goodbye to your children in the morning, and also where you invest your billions of dollars if you are the head of the government, it is something that we constantly make, and i am trying to get you to picture it not as thing we hurtled towards, not anything that is going to crash over us, >> you also use the term along pathing. it is almost as though by making it an active verb, you are connecting our lives as they currently are to the future. rather than as an abstraction. >> yeah, the reason i use the term long path is because, yes, i want to make it where we are right now and how that connects to the future, but it is also connecting to the past. you and i are here right now because of decisions that were made by our ancestors. for me, the most important question we can be asking ourselves as individuals, as citizens, as members of

society, as sapiens, is how do we become the great ancestors our future needs? more often than not, we make decisions through the lens of our lifespan. we have a lifespan bias. i'm thinking about what is best for me from my breath to my death, that makes sense. in the long path, i am asking people to step back and step up, and think, how did i get here and where are we going? so you no longer see yourself just within the self containment of your own lifespan, what you need to do day in and day out, but you need to think about, how am i connected to something bigger that came before me and how am i connected to something that is going to come long after i am gone? >> you are the host of a new pbs series, a brief history of the future, which debuted this week, congratulations, which explores all the topics that you just described. how can we become great ancestors for future generations, and you described

in the series how we are at an intertidal moments. what is that? >> so, in the marine biology sense, an intertidal is that place that many of us have been to if we have been to the ocean's edge, and it is the piece of land below water, and sometimes above water, that is called intertidal zone. but as a species, as a global planetary civilization, it is my belief that we are in that in between zone. we are kind of coming at a point where we are at the tail end of the enlightenment, rational, logos space thinking at a lot of institutions that were built over the past 100 years that served as really well, are no longer serving us well. at the same time, we are not exactly sure what is coming next. so, the old world is kind of dying, the new one is yet to be born, that is an intertidal. the intertidal is a place of chaos, it is also a place of mass creativity, so that is the

point we find ourselves in in terms of technology, demographics, climate change, synthetic biology, world powers gliding, we are in that in between place. >> give us some examples of what about the old world is failing us now? >> look, we will take a very classic example of voting here in america, why do we vote on tuesdays? the main reason we vote on tuesday is it took about two days for a landowning mail to go from church on a sunday to ride to the nearest town to vote on it tuesday, so how we vote and when people is based on how long it took us to get to the big town from horseback. so, our institutions, education -- you know, i have three children. every hour, a bell rings and they moved to a different subject? why? because education, as we move from 97% of america being based on agriculture 120 years ago to

the organization, our entire education system was predicated on the assembly line. and if you have ever looked at an assembly line, every few minutes, a bell rings and they moved the car down the assembly line. that is how we have built education as a system. so, from education to citizenship and voting to even how we run our legislators, those are all based of older ways of doing and thinking that don't make sense so much in this day and age. >> in the series, you say humanity is at a crossroads. how do you describe the crossroads? >> look, we have seen civilizations, empires rise and fall, but it has always been kind of localized, it might be it machu picchu, it might be the my end, maybe dynasties in china, but for the first time in human history, what we do or do not do over the next five to 10 years will not only impact future generations, but really planetary future generations. let's take artificial intelligence as an example, the coding that we are doing right now in ai in many ways is immortal, so how we decide to

build our ai machines, our mortal agents of creativity, will decide and dictate how we run our societies and civilizations for decades, if not centuries. we can say the same thing about climate change, we can say the same thing about genetic engineering. synthetic biology went from how do we kind of work with dna at the individual level 10 now we are doing engineering, so it is no longer fixing the disease right now, but that actually gets passed on and can go on for centuries. >> how should we think about the implications of those decisions? >> so, right now, when we make decisions, it only affects me or me and my own life or me and my own lifespan. when we are sitting down and we are thinking, how are we going to build this large, you know, language model, this ai system, or how are we going to

genetically manipulate this cancer patient who may go on to have kids, it is no longer just about them, it is about the generations to come. >> so, your point about using technology is and is crossroa, a lot of people are worried. how should we be thinking then about these new technologies and their possible negative implications? >> we should be thinking about new technologies both in terms of their negative applications and their positive implications. so, what is really missing? we get at this in the show, we don't have an ultimate goal of what we want to get to. in some ways, we are like trying to navigate without anyway -- >> you mean we as humanity. >> when i say we, i mean sapiens. the implications of these decisions that are right here in front of us, that are being decided within a few miles of where we are sitting or in silicon valley or in washington, d.c. or in brussels, these are no longer temporarily

isolated just to this moment. we tend to cover politics and policy almost like a horse race, who is up or down? which is fine and understandable, but really, for the first time, what we are doing or not doing, how we are thinking about how we use artificial intelligence, how we use technology, how we talk to one another, those have long- term ramifications. so, what we are asking people to do, what i am asking people to do is step back and say, okay, i understand in the short term what this technology might do, it might improve the bottom line in the short term. give me better quarterly earnings, that is understandable. but we really have to ask ourselves and our leaders to step back and say, how is this going to impact future generations? and you start making very different decisions when you see your decisions no longer just about impacting you or your lifespan or your shorter temporal horizon, but impacting the future of humanity.

>> you talk about how humans have a negativity bias that inherently we are always thinking about what is around the corner. >> i mean, look, the negativity bias served us well. margaret and i were walking around 20,000 years ago, what we were looking for were bad things, because they could hurt us and kill us. that is built into our underlying sapiens hardware, that is a negativity bias. that being said, in an intertidal moment, we have to ask ourselves to both recognize that that negativity bias is there, but then look for something different. and what that difference is is a sense and an idea of what it means to flourish, what it means to get things right. it is not that we don't know how to do it, it doesn't come to us right away.

so, it is so important in this very moment, when we are reading the headlines, watching the news, going about our daily life, sure, look and learn from the negative things, but at the same time, figure out, what is it that we actually want? we are so used to being negative, in some ways that is how we are wired, but it is not the only way. >> when you lo at some of the major challenges facing us at the moment, climate change, ai, there are those who worry we are already past the point of no return. what do you say to those people? >> love, i grew up in the climate movement, the environment movement, so for a long time, the ages that resonated to me was a polar bear on a small piece of ice, i was like that is it, everything is over, i am going to prep for the coming apocalypse. the fact of the matter is -- and we do this over six episodes of the show, as we are fine people who build better

tomorrows. sure, things are not in the ideal state on this planet across a number of indices. at the same time, if i was to be born anytime in the sapiens arc of history to this point, i want to be born right now, anywhere on the planet, but the fact of the matter is there are more people trying to do well by this current moment then there are people fighting against it. the headlines will say, oh, these people are against democracy, fossil fuel -- those things are all actually very true, but what you will see over six hours, 72 different interviews, people are saying yes, i get that, here is how we can use technology, here is how we can use new ways about thinking about spirituality and democracy and governance and citizen participation to get us to better tomorrows, as opposed to just accepting the doom and gloom narratives that are placed upon us day in and day out. >> one of the images and

metaphors that this series begins with is the building of a mosque over many centuries, it became a cathedral, continuing to be built on top of that mosque over many centuries. talk about that metaphor and how it applies to how we should think about the future now. >> we call it cathedral thinking, we call it mosque thinking or sin about thinking, if you will, but really, cathedrals started in the middle ages, often took 150, 200 years to build, so the people who are literally building these cathedrals and designing them and laying the moved from the get-go. they would not be around to see them finished. we no longer have that way of thinking. the core argument of the show is how do we move to cathedral thinking and everything that we do? how do we build for tomorrow in a way that recognizes that we may not be here to see that fully executed, but we are okay with that because we know we

are actually building something better that will last beyond us. >> where are we building cathedrals today? >> where we are doing it right now, we visited a fusion laboratory at livermore. >> and here, the laser beams come into the chamber, the laser beams are what drive our expements. >> and what the scientist said to me is, look, the work that she is doing right now is based on the work of a scientist who is no longer with us, and she is continuing its. so, i think in massive infrastructure projects around energy specifically, we are building those cathedrals. but it is very difficult for more and more defiant cathedral thinking manifesting today. >> is elon musk building cathedrals with his rockets and his exploration, his intention to get to mars, is not an example of cathedral thinking? >> whether or not somebody agrees with everything he is doing, the fact of the matter is thinking about how we live over the coming centuries is

cathedral thinking, so whether you agree with it or not, building rockets that will eventually get us to mars is a great example of cathedral thinking. >> elon musk wants to go to mars as a contingency plan for earth. there are bill gates, individuals who are concerned that we will self-destruct here. what is your response to that thinking? >> look, i think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. i think it is great that people are building alternative plan b is, but the fact of the matter is we can get things right here. and we can actually get them right here first. i am all for us going to mars, itself, what are we exporting to mars, how do we the best version of humanity to mars? if you take 1000 people today and send them to mars, that would be cool, but i would like to think that as a society, we can spend as much money on moral progress as we do on software and hardware problems, and we can do this at the same

time. >> you set out to find people building a better future, but not utopias. you use this term proto-bs. what is a pro topia? >> so, kevin kelly, one of the founders and one of the greats of silicon valley came up with this trend many years ago called protopia. we noticed topia, it is a place where we don't want to be, where everything falls apart. utopia is actually a dystopia in the skies. protopia is an idea of tomorrow where we are making progress, but not everything is perfect, so we talk about protopia thinking throughout the show, because we want people to recognize that we are not saying the future is going to be perfect, look at all these examples, this is how everything is, this idyllic garden of eden. what we are seeing day in and day out, if we make things 1% better every day, every year, every decade, and we know compounding interest that actually adds up, that is

protopian thinking. where we are today versus where we were 50 years ago is a sense of protopia, and part of what we do in this show is we visit people who are building the kind of microcosms of protopia. we like to say protopia is already here, it is just unevenly distributed. there are elements of projects that are happening right now that we visit around the world, that our new ways of thinking and doing, across the whole spectrum of activities, that are better than we have today, but not perfect, that is protopia. >> what are some of your favorites? >> one of my favorites was just outside of amsterdam, we visited this community which is basically called a dementia village, and what they have done there is a decided that for elders in their community who are going through memory care issues and early onset dementia and other neurodegenerative diseases, instead of putting them in locked hospital words how we do

here in the u.s., what we realized is they could build almost a safe and secure village that has a grocery store, restaurant, cabaret, and people could live in communities together, and what they found is there is an 80% reduction in the need for anti-anxiety or anti-depression drugs. going there gave me a glimpse of the future where we center humanity, where we center those who are the most vulnerable. so, i love that technology, i love the things that we visited around the world, but it was seeing how we could think differently that change my conception of what is possible. >> climate comes up a lot. it is also one that has some of the most innovative thinking, to my mind. in 1997, william buckley junior, the original host of firing line, hosted a debate about whether environmentalism had gone too far. listen to this back and forth between governor jerry brown of california and jerry, the head of the national association of manufacturers.

>> when 170 nations and in 1972 all agreed that the emission of greenhouse gases should be reduced at 1990 levels, that is not happening. neither clinton nor the republican congress cares about continuing this incredible creation of alteration in the natural environment, and we are a part of life itself. wh we destroy part of that web, we are jeopardizing it. >> i would just say that the kind of things that represent you and private capitalism in the world is a big part of the. don't you agree there ought to be a partnership between those of us who are interested in growth and jobs and the environmental problems? >> don't you suppose there ought to be a partnership between those who are interested in the growth of jobs and environmental problems? that was the tension in 1997, it was either or, how has that question evolved in the last 30 years, and what do you see as

examples in your series to how the question has been answered? >> look, this kind of false binary is something that we deal with all the time, both in politics and the media, and a lot of what we are trying to do in this serious is move past that, and so, i visit evan at eagle vedas, which is a company just up north here from new york city, they're working with mushrooms. >> mushrooms are uniquely situated to save the world. >> and what they're literally doing is using the backdrop of mushrooms, yes, to great packaging, but now also letter and furniture, and eventually building material. >> and bacon. >> and bacon. in the episode, i tried the bacon. >> you said it tasted like bacon, did it? >> what you don't actually see on the show in the final cut that makes it to the air, this is just like bacon. what he showing is that

there is room for jobs and growth. by the way, growth doesn't just mean more. you know, we grow as individuals morally, philosophically, and so, it is important for people to understand that there is going to be a role for them in this kind of transition, intertidal economy. >> for you, what is your goal and hope for this series? >> so many things. so for me, my goal and hope is that people take the future seriously. it is no longer just this thing that is out there, but they realize that the decisions they make are going to impact us, right? there is a term that we use in the show called the official future, which is it is going to be monorails or jackpots or doom and gloom. that is important. it is important to have an idea of where you want to go, but if you become totally constrained by th, you lose a sense of

agency, the ability to think about different tomorrows. so, my goal and hope for this show is that people will have a sense of agency, of hope, and of all for what tomorrow could bring. >> what gives you hope? >> two things. one, as a former kind of academic, it is history. i know where we have come from. and again, not everything is perfect today. >> the futurist gets help from history. >> 100%. i read history. i know how bad things can get. not that long ago, right now, things are pretty bad, but the fact of the matter is we are making progress. again, i would rather be alive now, anywhere on the planet, any gender and any race, then 200 years ago. look, 200 years ago, if you slipped and fell and got a cut, you probably died. now, i ran to the drugstore and i can put some cream on it and i don't e. we have actually made some progress in multiple areas.

the other thing that gives me hope is my children. in high school, i was on the track team shockingly, and i ran the 100 yard dash. i used to think that is what life is all about, the starting gun goes off, you run, you break through the tape, then you die. i realized when i had children, that is actually not the case. what it really is is a very long marathon where i am actually holding the baton that i took from my parents and i will get to my children, and i already see it as they are growing older, teenage daught, 10-year-old son, they are starting to reach back for that state, and the way they are reaching back isn't through a fear of tomorrow, but it is with a hopeful lens of what they and their generation can do, so that one day, my great great descendents, my children and their great great descendents will look back on what we do, the decisions that we made, to point us towards human flourishing, as some of

the most consequential decisions of our time, and that's what gets me hope, i can see they are already starting to think like that. >> congratulations on the new series, we look forward to enjoying it. thank you for joining us. thank you for having me. >> firing line with margaret hoover is made possible in part by robert, vanessa and henry cornell, the fair-weather foundation, peter and mary calico, the best and robin l curry foundation, the mckenna family foundation, charles schwab, the eric and wendy schmidt fund for strategic innovation, and by the following. >> [ music ] >> corporate funding is provided by stevens inc. and by pfizer inc. >> [ music ]

hello, everyone. welcome to "amanpour & company." here's what's coming up. >> after nearly six months of israel's bloody war in gaza, an international outcry over the strike on aid workers, biden gives netanyahu an ultimatum. i ask about the growing chorus of criticism. then how trump i