12/26/23 12/26/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> jesus were to be born today, he would be born under the rubble. when we glorify pride and richness, jesus is under the rubble. amy: "stop the genocide in

gaza." that was the christmas message at the palestinian pastor of the evangelical lutheran church in bethlehem where christmas festivities were canceled to mourn the more than 20,000 palestinians killed in gaza. we will speak to reverend munther isaac and air his christmas sermon. then a growing number of labor unions, including the american postal workers union and united auto workers are calling , for a ceasefire in gaza. >> we could not bomb our way to peace. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. israeli prime minister japan

netanyahu has vowed to step up attacks on the gaza strip after a weekend of violence that left hundreds of palestinians dead. on friday, 90 people were killed with israel bombed two homes. 76 of the dead were members of one family. they include and men who worked as the united nations development program official for three decades. he was killed along with his wife and five of their children. on sunday, at least 106 palestinians were killed in a single israeli airstrike on a refugee camp in gaza. this is a camp resident who searched for his wife and four children after the attack buried them under the rubble. >> my wife and children are still trapped inside. i only managed to uncover my eldest son. how will i buried them while they are under the rubble? how will i confirm my children

are here? where did they go when what happened to them? what fault did they have? why did this happen to them? it is not their fault. the world watches as we are dying and being slaughtered. amy: the palestinian red crescent society says the attack in khan younis left several people injured. a photojournalist should palestinian civilians, including children, held by israeli soldiers and the gaza stadium at gunpoint, stripped to their underwear, bound and forced to sit on open ground. israel's military said sunday it had recovered the bodies of five israeli hostages from a network of underground tunnels under the jabalia refugee camp near gaza city. israeli officials did not say how the captives had died. on monday, prime minister benjamin netanyahu visited the gaza strip for the second time since israel began its assault

in october. he told troops, "this will be a long battle and it isn't close to finished." later on monday, family members of hostages held a protest inside israel's parliament as netanyahu delivered a speech at a special session of the knesset. they were demanding israel's government prioritize the release of the 130 hostages still held in gaza. the protesters chanted "no time, now!" and held signs reading "what if it was your brother?" and "what if it was your father?" on friday, the united nations security council passed a resolution calling for more humanitarian aid to enter gaza. passage came only after the united states spent days threatening to veto the original draft which called for a "urgent and sustainable cessation of hostilities." instead, the watered-down resolution passed friday called for steps to "create the conditions for a sustainable cessation of hostilities." 13 members voted in favor, while

the united states abstained. in response, amnesty international's secretary general agnès callamard said -- "nothing short of an immediate ceasefire is enough to alleviate the mass civilian suffering we are witnessing. it is disgraceful that the u.s. was able to stall and use the threat of its veto power to force the u.n. security council to weaken a much-needed call for an immediate end to attacks by all parties." the pentagon says it carried out three strikes on iraqi territory early today at president biden's direction, in response to a drone attack on an airbase in erbil that wounded three u.s. service members, one critically. iraq's government said the u.s. attacks killed one member of the iraqi security forces and wounded 18 people, including civilians. it condemned the pentagon's "unacceptable attack on iraqi sovereignty." meanwhile, turkey's military launched air strikes in northern

iraq and syria over the weekend targeting bases, shelters, and oil facilities operated by the kurdish pkk militia. the attacks came after the turkish defense ministry said 12 of its soldiers were killed in northern iraq in battles with pkk fighters. elsewhere, an israeli air strike on northern syria on monday killed sayyed razi mousavi, a senior adviser in iran's revolutionary guard corps responsible for coordinating iran's military alliance with syria. iran's foreign ministry condemned the attack saying -- "iran reserves the right to take necessary measures to respond to this action at the appropriate time and place." at the vatican, pope francis condemned what he called the futile logic of war during his annual christmas day message. speaking from the balcony of st peter's basilica, the pope repeated his call on hamas to release the 130 hostages held in gaza and demanded israel halt its unrelenting attacks.

>> i plead for an end to the military operations of innocent civilian victims and call for a solution to the desperate humanitarian situation -- provision of humanitarian aid. may there be an end to the feeling of violence and hatred. amy: pope francis's remarks came as palestinian christians in bethlehem, the birthplace of jesus christ, canceled christmas celebrations to mourn the more-than-20,000 people killed in the gaza strip since october. after headlines we'll speak with reverend munther isaac, who delivered his christmas sermon saturday at the evangelical lutheran christmas church in bethlehem. called "christ in the rubble." ukraine's military claims it has destroyed a russian naval landing ship at a base in russian-occupied crimea. it says it shot down five russian fighter jets in recent

days. this comes after russia's military claimed it seized the front-line town of maryinka in eastern ukraine. on monday, ukraine celebrated christmas on december 25 for the first time ever, breaking from a russian orthodox church tradition of celebrating the holiday in early january in alignment with the julian calendar. in kyiv, ukraine's parliament is debating a bill that would lower the age of military conscription from 27 to 25 after the military said it needed up to a half-million additional soldiers. meanwhile, "the new york times" reports russian president vladimir putin has been signaling through intermediaries since at least september that he is open to a cease-fire that freezes fighting in ukraine along the current lines. russian opposition leader alexei navalny has been located at a penal colony in northern siberia two weeks after his supporters lost contact with him when he disappeared from a prison camp outside moscow. his spokesperson says he resurfaced monday at the ik-3 penal colony, nicknamed "polar

wolf," in the town of kharp in the arctic circle. >> we know for sure in this new colony, conditions would be even worse than they were before but the thing is, this colony is very distant, very difficult to access and for lawyers it will be difficult to go and see alexi. amy: protest continued in argentina after the newly and are greater president issued measures that have cause prices to soar. lester key ordered a major deregulation of the national economy. protesters have taken to the streets despite threats to cut off government benefits to anyone who blocks streets. in pakistan, officials in lahore have closed schools, markets and parks after the city of 11 million people recorded some of the worst air quality in the world. on saturday, the government turned to cloud-seeding technology in an unsuccessful attempt to use artificial rains

to drive down air pollution. local environmentalists blame poor government planning for the acrid air in lahore, which has lost three-quarters of its tree canopy in recent decades. >> this weather is causing eye and throat irritation everyone. the smog has been lasting five to seven years. this is related to climate change. we want to plant trees and keep our atmosphere claim. amy: here in the united states colorado jury has found , a paramedics jeremy cooper and peter cichuniec guilty of criminally negligent homicide in the 2019 death of elijah mcclain, a 23-year-old black man who was walking home from the store when he was tackled by police, placed in a carotid hold and later injected with ketamine. an expert witness testified there was no reason for the paramedics to give mcclain the powerful sedative. they were also found to have

failed to provide medical care to mcclain after they drugged him and he lay handcuffed and unconscious on the ground. he suffered a heart attack and died three days later. this was the last of three trials over the killing of elijah mcclain after one officer was convicted of criminally negligent homicide and assault and two other officers were acquitted. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, with democracy now!'s juan gonzález in chicago. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: we begin today's show in the occupied west bank in the city of bethlehem, the birthplace of jesus. city and church leaders canceled all christmas festivities in the holy land this year to mourn the more than 20,000 palestinians killed in gaza.

the landmark evangelical lutheran christmas church in bethlehem created a nativity scene with the figure of baby jesus in a keffiyeh, surrounded by rubble. later in the show, we will be joined by the church's pastor, the reverend munther isaac, but we begin by airing his christmas sermon which he delivered on saturday. >> "christ under the rubble." we are angry. we are broken. this should have been a time of joy. instead, we are mourning. we are fearful. more than 20,000 killed. thousands are still under the rubble. close to 9000 children killed in the most brutal ways. day after day after day.

1.9 million displaced! hundreds of thousands of homes were destroyed. gaza as we know it no longer exists. this is an annihilation. this is a genocide. the world is watching. churches are watching. the people of gaza are sending live images of their own execution. maybe the world cares, but it goes on. we are asking, could this be our fate in bethlehem? in ramallah? in jenin? is this our destiny, too? we are tormented by the silence of the world. leaders of the so-called free lined up one after the other to give the green light for this genocide against a captive population.

they gave the cover. not only did they make sure to pay the bill in advance, they veiled the truth and context, providing political cover. and yet another layer has been added, the theological cover with the western church stepping into the spotlight. our dear friends in south africa told us the concept of the state theology, defined as "the theological justification of the status quo with its racism, capitalism and totalitarianism." it does so by misusing theological concepts and biblical texts for its own political purposes. here in palestine, the bible is

weaponized against as. our very own sacred text. in our terminology in palestine, we speak of the empire. here we confront the theology of the empire. a disguise for superiority, supremacy, "chosenness," and entitlement. it is sometimes given a nice cover using words like "mission" and "evangelism," "fulfillment of prophecy," and "spreading freedom and liberty." the theology of the empire becomes a powerful tool to mask oppression under the cloak of divine sanction. it speaks of land without people. it divides people into "us" and "them." it dehumanizes and demonizes. the concept of land without people, again. even though they knew too well

that the land had people and not just any people, very special people. theology of the empire calls for emptying gaza just like it called the ethnic cleansing in 1948 "a divine miracle." it calls for us palestinians to go to egypt, maybe jordan, or why not just the sea? i think of the words of the disciples to jesus when he was about to enter samaria -- "lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?" they set of the samaritans. this is the theology of empire. this is what they are saying about us today. this war has confirmed to us that the world does not see us as equal. maybe it is the color of our skin. maybe it is because we are on

the wrong side of the political equation. even our kinship in christ did not shield us. so they say, if it takes killing 100 palestinians to get a single hamas militant, then so be it. we are not humans in their eyes. but in god's eyes no one can tell us that. the hypocrisy and racism of the western world is transparent and appalling. they always take the words of palestinians with suspicion and qualification. no, we are not treated equally. yet the other side, despite a clear track record of misinformation, lies, their words are almost always deemed infallible. to our european friends, i never, ever want to hear you lecture us on human rights or international law again.

and i mean this. we are not white, i guess it does not apply to us according to your own logic. in this war, the many christians in the western world made sure the empire has the theology needed. it is self-defense, we were told. and i continued ask, how is the killing of 9000 children self-defense? how is the displacement of 1.9 million palestinians self-defense? in the shadow of the empire, they turned the colonizer into the victim, and the colonized into the aggressor. have we forgotten that the state was built on the ruins of the towns and villages of those very same gazans?

have they forgotten that? we are outraged by the complicity of the church. let it be clear, friends, silence is complicity and empty calls for peace without a ceasefire and end to occupation and the shallow words of empathy without direct action, all under the banner of complicity. so it is my message, gaza today has become the moral compass of the world. gaza was hell before october 7. in the world was silent. should we be surprised at their silence now? if you are not appalled by what is happening in gaza, if you are not shaken to your core, there

is something wrong with your humanity. if we, as christians, are not outraged by this genocide, by the weaponizing of the bible to justify it, there is something wrong with our christian witness and compromising the credibility of our gospel message. if you fail to call this a genocide, it is on you. it is a sin and a darkness you willingly embrace. some have not even called for a ceasefire. i'm talking about churches. i feel sorry for you. we will be ok. despite the immense blow we have endured, we the palestinians will recover. we will rise. we will stand up again from the midst of destruction, as we have always done as palestinians, although this is by far the biggest blow we have received in a long time.

but we will be ok. but for those who are complicit, i feel sorry for you. will you ever recover from this? your charity and your words of shock after the genocide won't make a difference. i know these words of shock are coming and i know people will give generously for charity. but your words won't make a difference. words of regret will not suffice for you. let me say it, we will not accept your apology after the genocide. what has been done, has been done. i want you to look at the mirror and ask, where was i? where was i when gaza was going through a genocide? in these last two months, the sounds of lament have become a precious companion to us. we cried out, my god, my god,

why have you forsaken us? why do you hide your face from gaza? in our pain, anguish, and lament, we have searched for god, and found him under the rubble in gaza. jesus became the victim of the very same violence of the empire. he was tortured. crucified. he bled out as others watched. he was killed and cried out in pain, my god, where are you? in gaza today, god is under the rubble. and in this christmas season, as we search for jesus, he is to be found not on the side of rome but our side of the wall. he is in a cave with a simple

family. he is vulnerable. barely and miraculously surviving a massacre himself. he is among the refugees, among a refugee family. this is where jesus is found. if jesus were to be born today, he would be born under the rubble in gaza. when we glorify pride and richness, jesus is under the rubble. when we rely on power, might, and weapons, jesus is under the rubble. when we justify, rationalize, and theologize the bombing of children, jesus is under the rubble. jesus is under the rubble. this is his manger.

he is at home with the marginalized, the suffering, the oppressed, and displaced. this is his manger. i have been looking, contemplating on this iconic image -- god with us, precisely in this way. this is the incarnation. messy. bloody. poverty. this is the incarnation. and this child is our hope and inspiration. we look and see him in every child killed and pulled from under the rubble. while the world continues to reject the children of gaza, jesus says, "just as you did it to one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did it to me." "you did to me."

jesus not only calls them his own, he is them. he is the children of gaza. we look at the holy family and see them in every family displaced and wandering, now homeless in despair. while the world discusses the fate of the people of gaza as if they are unwanted boxes in a garage, god in the christmas narrative shares in their fate. he walks with them and calls them his own. so this manger is about resilience. the resilience of jesus is in his meekness, in his weakness, in his vulnerability. the majesty of the incarnation lies in its solidarity with the marginalized.

resilience, because this is the very same child that rose up from the midst of pain, destruction, darkness and death to challenge empires, to speak truth to power, and deliver an everlasting victory over death and darkness. this very same child accomplished this. this is christmas today in palestine and this is the christmas message. christmas is not about santa, trees and gifts and lights. my goodness how we twisted the meaning of christmas. how we have commercialized christmas. by the way, i was in the usa last month the first monday after thanksgiving, and i was amazed by the amount of christmas decorations and lights and all the commercial goods. i couldn't help but think, they

send us bombs while celebrating christmas in their land. they sing about the prince of peace in their land, while playing the drum of war in our land. christmas in bethlehem, the birthplace of jesus, is this manger. this is our message to the world today. it is a gospel message, a true and authentic christmas message, about the god who did not stay silent, but said his word, and his word is jesus. born among the occupied and marginalized, he is in solidarity with us in our pain and brokenness. this is our message to the world today and and it is simply this, this genocide must stop now. why don't you repeat it. stop this genocide now.

can you say with me? >> stop this genocide. >> one more time. >> stop this genocide now. >> this is our call. this is our plea. this is our prayer. hear, oh, god. amen. amy: the reverend munther isaac delivering his christmas sermon on saturday. he titled it "christ in the rubble." coming up, reverend isaac will join us from bethlehem in occupied west bank stop stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "song to the world," a version of the popular christmas song "little drummer boy" sung by the ramallah friends school in the west bank. the three palestinian college students who were shot in

burlington, vermont, last month are graduates of the ramallah friends school and met there in the first grade. the three students who were shot in two haverford, trinity, and brown in the united states. in the video shared by the school, current students sing in arabic with english subtitles. the school wrote -- "our hearts come together in prayer for the safety of the children in gaza. may our shared prayers echo for peace and justice, weaving a tapestry of hope that goes beyond borders, embracing the shared humanity we all hold dear." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. "christ in the rubble." that was the name of the christmas sermon we just heard from the reverend munther isaac, the pastor of the landmark evangelical lutheran christmas church in bethlehem.

his church gained international attention for creating a nativity scene with the figure of baby jesus in a keffiyeh surrounded by rubble. raids were carried out across the west bank over the weekend, including in bethlehem, in shawn fain, novelists, -- jenin, n ablus and jericho. reverent, welcome to democracy now! i wish i could wish you happy holidays but they are far from happy this year. wondering if you can talk about the message we just heard? it was clear it was not just for your congregation in bethlehem, not just for the occupied

territories in israel, but were really sending out a message to the world and particularly talking about the united states. why you feel where we are talking to you from where you just recently were is so important when it comes to the almost 21,000 palestinians dead since october 7, since the hamas attack on israel? >> thank you for having me. this was a service we had the day before christmas for gaza. it was jesus under the rubble from bethlehem to the world. we are broken as palestinians by the magnitude, the horrific killing of our people in gaza. but i also wanted to speak not just for the people of gaza for all palestinians who are appalled by the silence of the

world and the dehumanization that has been take place of the palestinian people, especially those in gaza. the dehumanization that allows such atrocities to take place with the world watching and with gazans themselves filming their own execution. we are tired and troubled from seeing day after day after day images of children and families being pulled from under the rubble. we can't understand how the world is ok with this. as a pastor who regularly speaks with churches around the world, i can't understand how we can preach the gospel of love and justice while ignoring and, in some cases, just to find what is happening in gaza. it is unfathomable to me. i felt the need to deliver such

a message with very direct and clear language. this is not the time for some diplomacy, especially with the genocide still happening day after day after day. i am grateful for those who enabled us to broadcast this service to the world. i am grateful it is reaching -- it is not that we are going to stop what is happening in gaza. i wish we could. we try all we can through messaging and lobbying. but i hope people will see the weight of responsibility they have. i'm not just talking about western governments. many churches have enabled what is happening in gaza. i felt we needed to send this message. juan: reverend isaac, you mention you were recently in the that is days. he went to washington, d.c., the group of christian leaders from bethlehem. he spoke to congressional

leaders and delivered a message to the white house -- a letter to the white house. what was your sense of how the political leaders in this country are regarding what is going on there right now in -- with the israeli attacks on gaza? >> we received a mixed reaction. i left really depressed. we saw the intention is if everybody has given to the idea this war is going to last for long. i met with several -- a lot has to do with how unwilling even have a good conversation, congressman -- i'm talking about the staff -- are willing to do. you share from the heart of our suffering and pain and then you just get the response, well, congressman so-and-so or senator

so-and-so has aided lear this war wants to continue. almost lack of empathy whatsoever. when we met in the state department and the white house, to be honest, they understand the details of what is happening. when i told them this war is only killing innocent people, they seem to agree. they give into the idea this war must continue. i challenge them, how do you allow such a government in israel, such leaders to commit genocide? i can't understand it. many politicians keep bragging about were calling about ideas yet when it comes to the palestinians, it seems no one is willing to extend these human rights and international

principles to us. juan: could you lay out the significance of palestine the christian faith? it is not only the birthplace of christianity, but the site of several key events described in the old and new testaments. >> palestine is where it all started. in addition to the sites themselves the church is called a fifth gospel, meaning the geography weeks about what happened here over the years, i think we have to realize that palestine hosts the oldest tradition -- christian tradition in the world. christianity started here. not only is it were started, this continue to witness nonstop

give the christian message. we always emphasize that palestine without the witness of its people means nothing. i hate to see palestine one day turned into a museum of holy sites for these western pilgrims who come and visit only interested in certain sites that relate to the scriptures without acknowledging the presence of people, without acknowledging the presence of the church that has long carried christian witness in palestine for 2000 years. sadly, we continue to be ignored. i think even palestine, apart from being a destination for pilgrimage, is somehow -- you know, people view it as a land from another universe. we just celebrated christmas and millions saying about bethlehem -- sang about bethlehem.

i wonder if they know it is a real city, with real people, with a long cry for justice? it seems for some reason, people don't make that connection. i'm not as much concerned with the plight of posting shins and even middle eastern -- of palestinian christians and even middle eastern christians. amy: reverend isaac, can you describe for us, have our audience is television and see the nativity scene and half his radio and cannot see it. can you describe the it to be seen that was right next to you as you delivered your christmas sermon? describe it in detail and why you chose to do this this year as christmas celebrations were canceled in your city of bethlehem? >> in the beginning of the

advent season, from the rubble, bricks that resemble a destroyed house. a house that was bombed and on top of it, surrounded we had baby jesus. the characters in the usually in the major, the shepherds and magi are outside watching the rubble, as if they are looking for any sign of life, looking for jesus. we're sending a message that jesus is under the rubble. created this because this is what christmas looks like in palestine today. but we created it because, you know, there is a strong message we wanted to send from it which is in a time when the world continues to justify and rationalize the killing of our children, we see the image of jesus in every child pulled from under the rubble.

these have been very difficult time for us as palestinians. we ask where is god? we say, god is under the rubble. god suffers with us. so with christmas coming, the connection to me was jesus as a baby who survived a massacre of a jesus as a baby became a refugee with his family to egypt , identifies with us and our suffering. he was one with the marginalized. the connection was natural and we created this manger to send a message to the world, this is what christmas means to us as palestinians. it was a message to our people. i do everyone saw it and it resonated with them. it may be a shock to many. but for the palestinians, isn't a very strong message. and many palestinians reached out to us, our church, and to myself thanking us for

explaining the true meaning of christmas, for sending a message of comfort and hope in the midst of very difficult times. i spoke in my sermon this manger somehow resemble w us. we will rise. i'm convinced of that. we are so -- it is so dark right now, we are traumatized. we are traumatized as a people. i know we will rise stop i am pleased this manger was able to bring a small sense of hope to our people but also sends a powerful message to the world about the realty in -- reality in palestine. destroyed homes and children under the rubble stuff amy: reverend munther isaac, thank you for being with this, palestinian christian theologian. pastor at the evangelical lutheran church in bethlehem. he titled his christmas sermon

"christ in the rubble: a liturgy of lament." when we come back on how growing number of u.s. labor unions are calling for a gaza cease-fire. back in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amy: "o little town of bethlehem" performed by nat king cole. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we look now at the growing pressure from the u.s. labor movement on president to demand a cease-fire. unions helped organize a march to aipac headquarters here in new york last thursday that called on lawmakers to stop taking campaign money from pro-israel lobbyists. this is united auto workers president shawn fain speaking alongside progressive congressmembers at a news conference thursday on capitol hill. >> we cannot bomb our way to peace. the only path forward is to build through a cease-fire. as union members, we know we

must fight for all workers and suffering people around the world. we must fight for humanity. that means we must restore people's basic rights and allow water, food, fuel, humanitarian aid to enter gaza. amy: for more we're joined by two guests. bill fletcher is a longtime trade unionist, co-founder of the ukrainian solidarity network, and member of the editorial board of the nation where his new piece is headlined "gaza, biden, and a path forward." and in chicago, jeff schuhrke is a labor historian, journalist, union activist, and assistant professor at the school of labor studies, suny empire state university in new york city. his latest piece for jewish currents is "the problem of the unionized war machine." his recent articles for in these

times are "the afl-cio squashed a council's cease-fire resolution. what does it say about labor right now?" and "the labor movement's history of backing israel -- and the changing climate amid the war on gaza," which was also published in jacobin magazine with the headline "u.s. labor should act boldly and choose solidarity with palestine." we welcome you both to democracy now! jeff schuhrke, if you can just go through the labor unions -- everyone from the united postal workers union to the powerhouse uaw, united auto workers -- and talk about the gaza activism that we are seeing today. >> good morning and thank you for having me. since october, scores and scores of unions and labor bodies at the local, state, regional, and national level have been calling for a cease-fire. there is a statement -- u.s. labor movement call for a cease-fire that also includes a call for restoring food, you'll,

water, electricity to gaza and a call for the release of all hostages that was started around october 17 by united electrical radio and machine workers, which is a relatively small but historically very progressive trade union here in the united states. they along with the united food and commercial workers started this petition for the cease-fire call and called on other unions to sign on to it. so far, i have lost count how many have signed on to it, and other unions have also issued their own statements and resolutions calling for a cease-fire. so these are unions of teachers and academic workers, health care workers, roofers, painters, dockworkers. amy: can you list some of the unions? >> certainly.

i mention the united electrical workers, american postal workers union, united auto workers, levin 99 seiu -- the largest health care union in the country -- national nurses united of international longshore and warehouse union local 10, the chicago teachers union, boston teachers union, several locals of the international brotherhood of electrical workers, and on and on. these represent millions of working people across the country. i think it is an illustration of the act that as the polls consistently show, a majority of people in this country support calls for a cease-fire. when you're talking about a majority of people, you are talking about working-class people. when they have organizations like unions that represent their voices, that give them a democratic say, then you're going to see those

organizations, those unions, express the stance of working-class people -- in this case, call for an end to the slaughter and for a cease-fire. juan: jeff, we still have civil number of the nacht -- considerable number of the national units that are not taking that stand. you have explained them are articles the role of the afl-cio in for decades and decades basically supporting u.s. imperial projects around the world. you have written about this guy jay love stone, former communist to platyed role with imperialist ventures. if you could talk about him? >> there is a kind of unfortunate and ugly history of the u.s. labor officialdom,

including the afl-cio particularly working hand-in-hand with u.s. foreign policy apparatus, especially during the cold war decades from 1940's to 1990's, working with the state department and the cia and other entities of the federal government to try to undermine unions in foreign countries, particularly war left-wing unions, anti-imperialist unions, divide labor movements. jlovestone was the director of the afl-cio's international affairs department. he was a cia agent as well. there's a long history to that. particularly when it comes to israel and zionism, there's a long history as well of the u.s. labor officialdom being one of the strongest supporters in the u.s. of the zionist movement going back as far as 1917 and being strongly supportive of the state of israel, not just vocal

support or political support, but material support with millions and millions of dollars from u.s. unions donated to first early zionist settlements before the state of israel and then to the state of israel for housing, health care clinics, community centers, sports stadiums. throughout the 1950's and 1960's, many of these kinds of public facilities for the names of famous u.s. labor leaders like walter reuther, jimmy hoffa. because of this material support. there's also state of israel bonds the u.s. unions have been the top purchasers of for many decades. this is money that u.s. unions put dues or health care money

directly into the state of israel. juan: specifically about the israeli bonds, remember in the 1980's attending a fundraiser of the philadelphia unions for the israeli labor federation. one of the leaders got up and said, we invest millions of dollars in israeli ones from our pension funds but our members sometimes tell us they don't give good a return but i tell them this is the right thing to do. so many unions do not know their funds were being invested in israeli bonds for decades. >> yes, that there has been also a kind of a slow but -- slowly but surely a movement from the rank-and-file over many decades to try to push back against that going back 50 years ago in 1973, every american auto workers in detroit were members of united auto workers staged a wildcat

strike at the dodge main assembly plant to protest the leaderships decision to purchase $785,000 instead of israel bonds and called on uaw leaders to divest. over the last 20 years or so, there has been the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement led by palestinians, including palestinian trade unions, and some unions in the u.s. have tried to endorse bds and talk about how their own funds, dues and pension funds, are invested in israel. that is one of the significant things i think about the uaw's calls for a cease-fire, they created a new working group that is going to look into the uaw's own investments in israel and talk about potentially divesting as well as talking about when they say just transition they're

talking about in the arms industry because the uaw represents thousands of workers in u.s. weapons factories the weapons that are being sent to israel. if we want to talk about shutting down the actress, we also have to talk about what happens to the people who work there who are union members. dresimilar to fossil fuel workes will be transition to a green economy. back in the 80's and 90's, calling for an economic conversion from wartime economy to peacetime economy. the fact the uaw's new leadership under president shawn fain has committed to trying to work towards these goals, i think it is probably more significant than the calls for a cease-fire. after all, cease-fire is the bare minimum here. amy: bill fletcher, i what to bring you into the conversation. your new piece is "gaza, biden, and a path forward."

can you talk about what you mean? >> thank you for having me on the program. i want to say one thing getting into the question, the u.s. trade union movement has always been divided on international affairs. way back to this missionary war. going to the spanish civil war. going to the vietnam war, central america, south africa. what has been a generally consolidated position is at the level of the national leadership of the afl-cio, they've been largely in lockstep with u.s. foreign policy but not always. what is different is that when it comes to israel and palestine, up until fairly recently, at the national level there is honest -- almost no

discussion about trinity views and supporting israel. that is what is changing which is really important to emphasize. one of the things, amy, to your question, is there is great fear within the union movement about what is going to happen in november 2024. what will happen in terms of what biden or whoever gets elected. with the october 7, the hamas attack and the israeli genocide following that, the union movement has been in a tailspin about how to respond. part of that response is to go back to its general position of supporting anything that israel does. another position is that of silence. a growing position we are now sing represented by uaw and others is to take a critical position on the views come on

the policy of the united states and of israel. that is where we should have hope. amy: what about president biden? you have this really interesting discussion going on right now as we move into the presidential election year -- look at michigan. huge arab-american community in dearborn. united auto workers so powerful. it looks like, to say the least, he is, the one of the most powerful supporters of unions when it comes to presidents, arab-american community is enraged from the palestinian community in michigan. >> and they should be. and the rest of us should be. biden is probably the most prolabor president we have had in decades, but the thing about his sponsors -- his response to gaza, which is one of the

reasons i think he should step aside and there should be another candidate for president on the democratic slate is biden is fundamentally zionist. he believes this of. this is not just sort of opportunity -- opportunism we saw under obama. biden actually believes this. his embrace of netanyahu mystifies politics, the pies reality, defies humanity that he cannot look at what is happening and even at the level of pragmatic politics say, wait a minute, hold on, hold on, let's reevaluate the situation and thus calls for greater humanitarian aid to the palestinians. this is unacceptable.

i think that is why it is really important to right now hammer the administration around palestine. amy: we have to leave it there, bill, but we will post it online at democracynow.org. bill fletcher and jeff schuhrke .