02/02/24 02/02/24 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> not trump, not biden. i will vote -- i don't know. i will vote, but not for both of them. amy: with protests in the streets, president biden makes a campaign stop in michigan, home to the largest percentage of

arab americans in the united states. is biden losing the arab-american vote over his support for israel's assault on gaza? we'll speak with the mayor of dearborn abdullah hammoud, who refused to meet with biden's campaign manager. and we will talk to arab-american pollster james zogby. then, "origin." >> i want to be in the story, really inside the story. shows how all of this is linked. amy: we speak with award-winning filmmaker ava duvernay about her new film that dramatizes the book "caste: the origins of our discontent" by pulitzer prize-winning journalist isabel wilkerson. >> the film follows is a bill wilkerson in her pursuit of truth as she writes the book and

you watch your overcome great personal challenge and also complete the book. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. over one million displaced palestinians are under threat of a new ground assault on gaza's southernmost city of rafah after the israeli military said it would attack the area once labeled a safe zone. the u.n. called rafah, located on the border with egypt, a "pressure cooker of despair." the death toll in gaza continues to rise with over 27,000 killed and more than 66,000 wounded in four months. over 11,000 of those killed by israel have been children. the palestine red crescent society is calling for the international community to intervene immediately to halt attacks on medical workers and to help find a six-year-old girl, hind, and two members of their emergency medical team,

yousef zeino and ahmed al madhoun, who have been missing for nearly four days. hind and her 15-year-old relative layan hamadeh called the red crescent on monday pleading for help as israeli tanks approached their family's car in gaza city. all six members of hind's family were killed by israeli fire, including layan. these were her last words, recorded on the call with a red crescent dispatcher. >> hello? they are shooting at us. they are shooting at us. the tanks next to me. >> are you hiding? >> yes, in the car. >> are you inside the car? [screaming] >> hello, hello. amy: after all her family members were killed, six-year-old hind remained trapped in the car as emergency

workers tried to reach her. this is rana al-faqeh, the emergency dispatcher who spent several hours on the phone with hind trying to reassure and calm the little girl. >> it is a painful experience when you to her voice. sad but she had hoped that someone would save her. but we were helpless. we felt we were paralyzed because we were thinking about the situation she was in. she was trapped inside a car with six bodies of martyrs. when the take came close to her, she was screaming and crying. the worst minute was when she said the tank got closer in the phone cut. at this moment i felt the take climb on the car and i started to cry and i was trying to be strong. amy: president biden signed an executive order thursday imposing new sanctions on israeli settlers involved in violent attacks against palestinians in the occupied

west bank. at least eight palestinians, including one child, have been killed and over 100 injured in some 500 settler attacks since october 7. the executive order for now targets just four settlers but could be used against others in the future, including israeli politicians. biden officials reportedly considered adding ultranationalist cabinet ministers itamar ben-gvir and bezalel smotrich to the list but decided against it. the pentagon has approved a series of strikes against targets inside iraq and syria in response to the recent attack on u.s. military base in northern jordan that killed three u.s. soldiers and other attacks in the region. defense secretary lloyd austin said the u.s. is working to avoid a wider middle east conflict and is not seeking war with iran. >> our teammates were killed by radical militias backed by iran and operating inside syria and iraq. in the aftermath of the hamas terrorist attack, those by

iran have try to create more turmoil concluding the houthis attacking commercial shipping in the red sea. how much iran knew or did not know we don't know, but it doesn't matter because iran sponsors these groups, funds these groups. amy: secretary austin also apologized for the secrecy , what he call privacy, surrounding his recent hospitalization and cancer diagnosis. activists shut down at least half a dozen major roads in washington, d.c., during thursday morning rush hour and marched through the streets to demand an end to u.s. military support for israel. police arrested roughly two dozen protesters. >> criminals in the building behind us need to stop funding genocide. we don't have health care. we don't have public education. people are dying on the streets while our government is spending

billions of dollars to genocide and kill doctors and students and teachers and babies in the hospital. there's a genocide going right now. amy: in canada, activists blockaded all access points for the port of vancouver calling on the government to enact an arms embargo on israel following the international court of justice ruling last week that there is a plausible risk that israel is committing genocide in gaza. meanwhile, over 800 officials across the u.s., u.k., and european union released a joint letter of defense today say "our governments crime policies we can the moral standing at undermine their ability to stand up for freedom, justice, and human rights globally." florida's republican governor ron desantis is deploying state national guard troops to the texas-mexico border in a move that's been widely condemned by immigration rights groups. desantis made the announcement thursday as he stood on a podium displaying the words "stop the invasion."

desantis is one of many republican leaders who's pledged support for texas republican governor greg abbott's intensifying anti-immigrant hate speech and policies. meanwhile, abbott continues to defy a supreme court order that allowed the biden administration to cut down razor wire put up by texas troopers along its border with mexico. european union leaders have approved a new 50-billion-euro funding package to ukraine, overcoming weeks of resistance from hungary's prime minister viktor orbán. this comes as the u.s. senate is expected to vote on a ukraine military aid and u.s.-mexico border enforcement deal next week following heated negotiations. in ukraine, volodymyr zelenskyy reportedly is set to dismiss his top general. tensions between the two have been rising following ukraine's failed counteroffensive last year and after he described the war with russia as a stalemate. in related news, the international court of justice has found russia violated portions of two treaties, one od

portions of two treaties, one on financing terrorism and another on eradicating racial discrimination. the ruling came as part of ukraine's case accusing moscow of funding separatist rebels in eastern ukraine and discriminating against crimea's multiethnic community since its annexation a decade ago. the court, however, declined to rule on ukraine's request for russia to pay reparations for attacks in eastern ukraine blamed on pro-separatist ukrainian rebels. in the u.k., swedish climate activist greta thunberg appeared in a london court thursday as her trial got underway for protesting outside the entrance of a major oil and gas industry conference last october. she spoke outside the court, alongside two codefendants. >> even though we are the one standing here and human rights activists and climate activists across the world are being sometimes even convicted for acting in line with science, we must remember who the real enemy is.

what are we defending? who are laws to protect? amy: back in the united states, the republican-dominated georgia state senate passed a bill which would criminalize the majority of bail funds. sb63 would make bailing more than three people out of jail per year illegal, including for non-profits and churches that run bail funds.

at the same time he is heartbroken. heartbroken by the suffering of palestinians. amy: the message to michigan as president biden went there is that israel has a right to defend itself. mayor hammoud, will you be voting for president biden? >> or me that question paul spector president biden. what will he do to learn to trust at the constituency he is trying to represent? it is a slap to the face step every military expert and he

mentioned terry and expert across the globe -- humanitarian expert across the globe. that is why the international court of justice moved forward with south africa's case indicating it is plausible what is unfolding in israel and gaza, she's become is a genocide. -- excuse me, gaza, is a genocide. he said it is plausible that israel is committing genocide that is being supported and upheld and defended by these united states of america. amy: mayor hammoud, you have constituents whose families are in gaza. what are they saying to you? do you think the situation will be different and almost a year from now when the election takes place? >> we were promised in 2020 president was going to bring back decency to the white house. what we have seen since october

7 is anything but. we have seen in alignment with benjamin yet yahoo! and the most right-wing government in israel's history. we cannot understand why, why understanding trump inge threat to our american democracy, worth the unraveling of our democracy. amy: i want to go to an al jazeera reporter who questioned lloyd austin and his first news conference since he was hospitalized about u.s. military support for israel. >> back in december in your speech, you told israeli leaders they have to protect civilian lives. since that speech, 12,000 more palestinians have been killed. we are now at 27,000 killed. why are you still supporting this war when this government, the most extreme in the history of israel, led by someone who

refuses to recognize the right of palestinians and what elements their calling for ethnic cleansing and displacements of palestinians -- two palestinians have the right to dignity as you said? you said the future belongs to those who protect dignity, not trample it. >> i said that in the speech at the reagan forum. i have said that to my counterpart minister gallant every time i talk to him. and i talk to him every week. i emphasize the importance of protecting civilian lives and also emphasize the importance of providing humanitarian assistance to the palestinians. amy: that is lloyd austin, defense secretary, being questioned by al jazeera. james zogby, if you can talk about what you feel needs to happen right now and the people

you are polling, talking to, what could make the difference? >> at this point in terms of electoral politics, i'm not sure anything makes a real difference . the wound is too deep, the losses are too great. the hurt is real and they are doing nothing to address it. at least to have a conversation, they have to make some dramatic changes in policy. first is a ceasefire. we had a summit with operation push and interface collection of organizations a couple of weeks back in chicago. three demands -- an immediate sustainable ceasefire, increasing humanitarian aid and reconstruction aid in gaza, and conditioning u.s. aid militarily to israel. stopping it and conditioning future aid based on u.s. law. those are the three essential demands i think to move it forward. they're not listening to us.

they are not even asking as and yet they want our vote. you can get a conversation which is an important thing moving forward -- any community needs a conversation with those in the white house. but getting our vote? there is a lot of hurt to get over. sort of like a serial cheat coming on to his wife and saying "this time i'm going to change you have to show it. we're not saying that from these guys. that from these guys. amy:, james zogby, we will link to your new piece "biden's erasure of arabs is part of a painful history i know too well." coming up, we speak with award-winning filmmaker ava duvernay. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: from "origin." this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman. we spend the rest of the hour with award-winning filmmaker ava duvernay. she has explored black history in many of the movies she's directed, from "selma" to the documentary "13th" that explores race and the prison industrial complex to the miniseries "when they see us" about the central park five, now known as the exonerated five. she also directed disney's "a wrinkle in time." ava duvernay's new feature film is called "origin," and it takes viewers on a journey that explores racism from the united states and the killing of trayvon martin to dalits in

india to nazi book burnings in germany and the killing of jews in the lead up to world war ii. it does so by dramatizing the book "caste: the origins of our discontents" by pulitzer prize-winning journalist isabel wilkerson, as well as the process of writing the book. this is the trailer for "origin." >> will find something tragic that is happening. >> i don't do assignments anymore. >> we have had break-ins in my neighborhood. there is a real suspicious guide that looks like he has up to no good. >> i want to be in the story. really inside the story.

show how all of this is linked. >> have to be honest, i don't understand. >> it was all lies. you don't escape trauma by ignoring it. you escape trauma by confronting it. i right answers. amy: the trailer for "origin," which is in theaters now. it is directed by the award-winning filmmaker ava duvernay, who i recently interviewed.

i began by asking about her decision to make this a feature film instead of a documentary. >> i read the book. it came out in 2020. about two month after the murder of george floyd. i read, i am captivated by the ideas. i never put the idea of caste in the contemporary idea as it relates to african american history or american history in general. certainly not in a contemporary context as i put it against challenging current cases of criminal misconduct in the killing of black people as we see in the case of trayvon martin, which is discussed in the film. these are new ideas to me. i was really motivated to share them in an acceptable way. all of my aha moments from reading the book are in the film but i needed a main character to drive us through what is truly

an inch of the logical feet -- thesis. my goal was to attach character into that so there could be a deeper empathy and a following a leading lady. the film follows isabel wilkerson and her pursuit of truth as she writes the book. along the way, you watch her overcome great personal challenge and also complete the book "caste" amy: i want to go where you begin, "origin close what were the issue began "origin," featuring isabel wilkerson. >> it's a lot. there is a lot there.

questions i don't have the answer to. i don't write questions. i right answers. >> like what? >> why does a latino man deputize himself to protect an all-white community? because everything racism. what is that mean anymore? it is a default. >> you are saying he is not a racist? >> and questioning why is everything racist? amy: that is isabel wilkerson. if you can go to why you decided to start with trayvon martin and as you said, actually you hear george zimmerman's voice.

. when i was interviewing miss wilkerson about her process in writing the book, she shared that the verdict of the case against george zimmerman was a seminal moment in her curiosity and in her quest to put together the thesis and try to pursue this notion of caste and explaining it to folks. i wanted to begin where she began. in the film, you see it opens with a day in the life of a teenager named trayvon. you are walking with him as he is going about his business talking to a friend on the phone, going to buy a snack. those few minutes you see him before anything happens to him, before he is stopped and assaulted and killed, are moments to can -- constructed to

humanize him and allow you to learn a little bit about him outside of the context of what was done to him. that was important to me in any rendering of challenge and trauma to make sure we're doing exactly what caste asks us not to do. cast asks is not to humanize one another. in the rendering of trayvon martin, we make sure we opened on just him, before anything else. because that was the beginning of miss wilkerson's writing journey, we begin the film that way as well. amy: talk about why you decided to call the film not "caste" but "origin." >> i did want to be disingenuous. the film is not a book. the film is about the writing of the book and the woman who wrote the book. you get some good pieces of the book, but it is about the intellectual pursuit, the

curiosity that leads to knowledge, about the interrogation and about obstacles. it is about love. it is about triumph over adversity. it is different than the book. it is about the life and work of this woman as she is writing "caste" so i not want to call it "caste" and have you think, what am i doing here? ruby wilkerson. "origin" is a word in the subtitle of the book. the book is "caste: the origins of our discontents." we stayed true to the proximity between the two by using the same word. amy: let's go to isabel wilkerson herself. i interviewed her in 2020 after she won the pulitzer prize when her book came out.

and your book "caste" you write about the intellectual leader of india's dalit movement, what people call the untouchable movement. he wrote to w you do always in 1946 there is so much similarity between the position of the untouchables and india and of the position of the knee grows in america. can you talk about who he was in relation to gandhi and india and then his response? >> folks gandhi was from a family that was from an upper caste, one of the upper caste so he was the leader and effort toward independence for the entire country in india and known for his nonviolent

approach to achieving independence and a protesting. the leader of the dalit movement was born into what was then known for called or one of the untouchables. he went on to achieve great height and education attended club university and got many of them -- many returned to read the movement toward, first of all, constitution and then continuing to advocate on behalf of of the people. and he is one of -- is an example of how people in india, particularly those to th lowest caste, have been aware of what was going on across the ocean come across continents of what was going on in the united states and made common cause or recognize the common cause between the plight of the doll

it's, formally known as untouchables, and of african-americans here in this country. so the doctor reached out to w.e.b. dubois in recognition of the connections between the two peoples and the two countries in terms of the hierarchies. both of them recognize that hierarchy, the infrastructure of our divisions, the caste system was an appropriate term to look at how both peoples were being treated in their respective societies, though the countries are very, very different. somewhat they share in the ways of subordinating the very lowest caste people in their countries. amy: that was isabel wilkerson talking about her book "caste" when it first came out in 2020. and now we're going to go to isabel wilkerson, played by aunjanue ellis-taylor, talking

about the dalits of india. >> millennia ago, dlaits recalled the untouchables of india. forced into the degrading work of manual scavenging cut the practice of cleaning excrement from toilets and open drains by hand in exchange for leftover food. the only thing that they have to protect their bodies is oil, each other, and their prayers. to refuse is to invite severe punishment for death. this persistence to this day. amy: from "origin,"y's film.

talk about this journey that is about risk -- isabel wilkerson takes to india. also the crisis in her personal life so deeply involved with her family, so close to her cousin, her mother, losing her family as she traveled. >> the film chronicles the personal life of isabel wilkerson, the l lead up to the book. she lost three bimetal members. was somehow able to anchor herself in her work and pull herself through. i won't say over because you never completely get over those

losses. but to a place where she was able to use her creative out point, -- output, her intellectual energy to stand in grief in a different way. a part of that process was a visit to india, one of several places she traveled around the world to research the book "caste" i was also thrilled, to have the pleasure to go to india and shoot those scenes in delhi, speak with one of the same scholars she spoke to, who placed himself in the film. he introduced me to a whole world of dalit intellectuals. the two men you see scavenging are in that position in india to this day. they are meant associated with

advocacy group. generously agreed to do the work on camera. they were wonderful to work with. just to give context to an american audience, the money we gave them, paid them to be performers in the film that day, was more than they make all year in that job. it is not even a job. it is an existence. it was a profound experience as described in the book and for me to be there. amy: and for dr. king, issue point outpost of dr. martin luther king, who went to india. talk about that part of this connection between the treatment of african-americans in the united states and what he discovered in india. >> he talked about his

realization was in india that he is lower-class american citizen and it talks about the african-american experience in context of "caste" and animates the black experience in new ways which he wrote about and talked about. i have researched dr. king. i knew he had visited india but never had read for heard about what he took from it. amy: you take us from the treatment of african-americans and the oppression of african-americans in the united states to the treatment of thedalits, formally known as the untouchables, to what happened to jews and nazi, germany. in this clip of "origin" that features a scene when the character isabel wilkerson, played by aunjanue ellis-taylor,

addresses an audience about her book "caste" >> on this day he folded his arms rather than salute a regime that deemed that love illegal. on this day, he was brave. he could not have been the only one who felt something tragic was happening. so why was he the only one among the men to not go along that day? perhaps we can reflect on what it would mean to be him today. i will leave you with that. thank you. amy: that was a clip of isabel wilkerson played by aunjanue ellis-taylor giving a speech

about "caste" and behind her is black-and-white footage of been in women in germany putting up their hand in salute. ava duvernay, you are talking there -- or i should say isabel is talking about august land master. tell us his story. >> he is one of the first stories the book "caste" opened with. if you're reading it in the first 15 minutes, are going to destroy which captivated my imagination the first time i read it. i had to delve deeper and really know what happened to him and what happened to his love irma. it is the story of august and irma. they're both german. she is jewish. he had registered as a member of the nazi party a couple of years before the moment of this very famous picture which i know many people have seen.

in the film, we chronicle and show and share everything i could find about what happened. in the book, isabel talks about this moment of defiance and of resistance. i like the words we use in the film "on this day he was brave" because none of us are brave all the time. it on that day, when it came down to standing up for what you truly believe, he would not heil hitler. he had someone at home he loved that was jewish and he stood on those principles and did not go along with the status quo. it is a beautiful love story in the film overall, and it kind of exemplifies the humanity that isabel shares in the book. amy: and you weave into this elizabeth and allison davis, two black anthropologists who cowrote the groundbreaking book "deep south." we will play a clip from moment of book burnings in germany and

that place out of humboldt university where you see instead of cement in the plaza, just a square where you look down, bright light, and you just see white empty shelves. this was isabel wilkerson when she took that journey played by aunjanue ellis-taylor. >> germany nearly everyone victimized by the nazis. just open. just standing to bear witness.

[inaudible] >> go to your homes as soon as you can. you will be safer there. amy: an excerpt of the extraordinary film "origin." ava, introduce us to these authors that wrote the seminal work in the united states and your discovery, isabel wilkerson's discovery of the connection between the united states and germany. >> it always moved me in the scene where he says "you will be safer there."

not true. sending them back onto the segregated south. alton and elizabeth davis were anthropologists. in the book, isabel talks about the connection and the kindred feeling between allison davis' work and her work. she regards him as a seminal figure in the developing of her ideas around this work. she talks primarily about research they did in mississippi for the book "deep south. she mentions they also had studied abroad. when i dug deeper into the that, i realized they had witnessed the book burning and escaped nazi germany right as the rise of hitler was reaching a crescendo. and so i could not believe the

two stories converged in that way. upon further research, able to really try to build out what those book burnings looked like, what they did, how they functioned. so what you just saw is a combination of a sequence that digs into alton and elizabeth davis in germany, studying and then coming across this burning of books in a place that we shot in the exact square. some of the -- exact recreations of photographs of the actual incident. it was a thrill to be there standing on the same cobblestones and rendering those images about to african-american scholars who had to leave under the cover of night to get out of germany to avoid that letter and african-american woman standing

and that square re-creating those images freely. a big full circle moment. the book speaks out come has been republished with the ford by isabel wilkerson. the remarkable stories of "caste" that the davis's as well as their colleagues developed and share in the book about caste. amy: that book is called "deep south: a social anthropological study of caste and class." so you deal in the united states, in india, deal with germany and discussing the issue of isabel wilkerson developing her thesis in the book "caste" i want to go to that scene when isabel, played by aunjanue ellis-taylor, is at a dinner party with fellow scholars

discussing the thesis of "caste" >> well, there are many differences. we are talking about the systematic murder of 6 million jews. so it is just very different. >> what are you saying is different? >> all of it. you're talking about delivered extermination. >> wasn't slavery for hundreds of years? >> slavery lasted 246 years. that is 13 generations of people plus another 100 years of jim crow segregation, violence, and murder. >> it is horrific. i am not downplaying any of it. >> there were so many millions of african-americans who were murdered from the middle passage until the end of legal segregation that it goes beyond the realm of an official number.

there is no number. >> i didn't know that. >> standing. >> it is. and i understand you're trying to make sense of american racism. but your thesis linking germany with the united states is flawed . >> may it is not exactly the same, but the thesis is structural similarity. it is context. >> put a framework is not a book , my friends. she is trying to connect the united states to germany but it doesn't fit. it is as if you're trying to fit a square inside the circle. i would like you to note for yourself that american slavery is rooted in subjugation, dominating blacks for the

purposes of capitalism. using bodies in labor for profit. but for the jews during the holocaust, the end goal was stopped subjugation. it was extermination. kill them all. wipe them off the face of the earth. there is no need for them here. it is different. amy: a scene from the extraordinary film "origin." ava duvernay, that was one of the longest clips you shared with us. talk about why this is so central and the kind of pushback that isabel wilkerson got as she developed this idea of caste. >> she shared that with me as she took these ideas around the world and talked with different scholars, different writers about it. there were questions that people have different points of view

about caste, the way it works and its connective tissue between cultures and communities. i think it is all part of the conversation that i hope the film instigates. i said the film -- i am not seeking agreement without the ideas, but i do feel we should engage with ideas and i think far too often we are in our corners and not engaging with one another about these things. as isabel explained to me, she did attend a dinner party where there was a difference of opinion and intellectuals were talking and wrestling with ideas in this way. and that scene really propels her on a journey to prove the kinds of things she is trying to prove to uncover what blinds us together as opposed to standing in our corners and saying these things aren't alike.

i feel that her quest to do that in the book that came from it was a great gift. certainly there are instances in the journey where their obstacles and people are saying, i don't agree with that. but it doesn't mean you don't take the journey. i think that is one of the big things i learned from her in making this film. hopefully, comes across when you watch the scene and the scenes that come after. this scene propels her forward, for actually proving her thesis. amy: is there anything us you want to add before we end? >> i would love to add this picture is in the world in a way that is very independent.

i believe your audience embraces that most of amy: you made it in time for the 2024 election. does that have any meaning to you, the fact it is out for this pivotal election year, some calling it perhaps the most important election ever? >> it was intentional. it was important for me the film be out this year. there are opportunities for us to make it with more bells and whistles with the studio's involvement, but it would not have been out this year. it is not a film made to make money for corporations. it is a film made two of night our imagination and our curiosity and get us to lean in and figure out what we're going to do next. because this is an essential time for action. that is our offering and our hope. amy: award-winning filmmaker ava duvernay who explores like history many of her films. her new movie "origin" is in

theaters now as black history month begins in the united states. it dramatizes the book "caste: the origins of our discontents." ava is a winner of an