03/11/24 03/11/24 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> the situation in the country is critical. our children can no longer go to school. no one can move around the country. amy: haiti is in turmoil as fighting rages between security forces and armed groups calling

for the signation of unelected prime minister ariel henry who remains outside haiti. we'll get the latest. guilty. then the former president of honduras juan orlando hernández is found guilty of cocaine trafficking after a two-week trial in u.s. federal court. we'll go to tegucigalpa to get reaction from the ground and we'll look at the role of the united states in propping him up. >> this is not a case of the u.s. heroically help the honduran people. it was the u.s. that destroyed the criminal justice system, destroyed the rule of law in honduras and now what act like it is the rescuer on horseback to convict this man that the biden and trump and obama administrations also ported. amy: and we get a report from gaza. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report.

i'm amy goodman. israel is continuing its attacks on gaza as palestinians mark the first day of ramadan. the death toll from israel's five-month long assault has topped 31,000. health officials in gaza say at least 27 palestinians have starved to death due to israel's ongoing blockade of aid deliveries. over the weekend, five palestinians died in northern gaza as a pallet of food a question to death after a parachute failed to open. the united states has begun shipping parts to build a temporary port off the coast of gaza to increase aid following president biden's announcement during his state of the union address last week, but many groups say the u.s. plan will take too long and is insufficient to address the looming famine in gaza. the head of doctors without borders in the u.s. said -- "the u.s. plan for a temporary pier in gaza to increase the

flow of humanitarian aid is a glaring distraction from the real problem -- israelis' indiscriminate and disproportionate military campaign and punishing siege." inside gaza, palestinians are struggling to find any food to eat. >> i came here to buy but i can't find anything. there are no dates or milk or anything. one can't find anything for their children. how are we supposed to have dinner before the fast starts at dawn? how are we supposed to have the meal that breaks the fast? with canned goods? all of these canned goods are filled with germs that affect the stomach. we need vegetables and fruit to feed our children. amy: during an interview on msnbc, president biden criticized israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu by saying he is hurting israel more than helping israel. pres. biden: he has a right to

defend israel and pursue hamas but he must, he must come he must pay more attention to the innocent lives being lost as a consequence to the actions. he is hurting, in my view, hurting israel more than helping israel by making the rest of the world -- stands for. i think it is a big mistake. i want to see a ceasefire. amy: in the same interview with msnbc's jonathan capehart, biden warned netanyahu against invading rafah. but he also vowed to keep arming israel regardless of what it does in gaza. >> what is your redline with prime minister netanyahu? do you have a redline? for instance, with the invasion of rafah be a redline? pres. biden: there is a redline but i'm never going to leave israel. the defense of israel is still critical. i will cut off.

you cannot have 30,000 more palestinians dead. amy: netanyahu responded by vowing to defy biden's red line on rafah, saying -- "we'll go there. we're not going to leave." caribbean leaders are holding an emergency meeting in jamaica today to discuss the political and humanitarian crisis in haiti where armed groups are attempting to force the resignation of haiti's unelected prime minister ariel henry, who has long been a u.s. ally. henry has been stranded in puerto rico since last week, unable to return home as increasing violence has left haitians struggling to secure food and water. over the weekend, the u.s. flew a team of marines into haiti as the security situation around the u.s. embassy deteriorated. non-essential staff at the embassy were airlifted out of haiti. we will have more on haiti after headlines. pope francis has called on

ukraine to have the courage to wave the white flag and begin negotiations with russia. the pope made the comment in an interview with the swiss broadcaster rsi. >> it is one interpretation. but i think the strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people, and has the courage of negotiating. today you can negotiate with the help of the international powers. there are some. the word "negotiate" is a courageous word. you have to have the courage to negotiate. how many dead will the war end up with? it will end even worse. find a country that can be a mediator. amy: several ukrainian and european officials criticized the pope's call for negotiations. in new york, former honduran president juan orlando hernandez was found guilty of cocaine trafficking after a two-week trial. federal prosecutors had accused hernandez of ruling the central

american country as a narco-state, accepting millions of dollars in bribes from drug traffickers in exchange for protection. celebrations erupted following friday's verdict. this is a honduran activist speaking outside manhattan's federal courthouse. >> the rotten political class we have has brought the country to total collapse and everyone we see here, this entire community, is a clear example of a society in total collapse that has been trampled on and sunk by corrupt politicians. amy: hernandez was arrested in february 2022, less than a month after his presidential term ended, and extradited to the u.s. in april of 2022. he was a longtime u.s. ally. his brother is already serving a life sentence in the u.s. for smuggling cocaine. juan orlando hernandez faces life in prison as well. we will have more on the trial

later in the show. the sudanese military has rejected u.n. calls for a truce in fighting with its rival rapid support forces during the muslim holy month of ramadan. the rsf had said it welcomed the truce. the u.n. security council adopted a resolution friday, urging both warring parties to negotiate a resolution after nearly one year of conflict and expressed grave concern over the deteriorating humanitarian crisis in sudan. this is china's deputy u.n. ambassador speaking friday. >> the lives of all of the people in the world are precious. while adopting a resolution on the ceasefire during the month of ramadan, the security council must not forget the people of gaza are still suffering under bombardment. the international community must push forward for a cease fire and end to conflict in gaza to give the people some hope for survival and provide the basic security necessary for all religious activities by the muslims there. amy: in an interview with msnbc, president biden said he regrets using the word "illegal" during

his state of the union to describe a venezuelan man accused of killing laken riley, a georgia nursing student. pres. biden: undocumented person. i should not have used "illegal." >> you regret using that word? i and co. yes. -- pres. biden: yes. amy: during a campaign rally in georgia, former president donald trump attacked biden over the issue. pres. trump: i say he was in illegal alien, an illegal immigrant, an illegal migrant, and he should not have been in our country and he never would have been under the trump policy. amy: trump mocked president biden's stutter. pres. trump: didn't it bring us together -- per the countryto-t-t-together. no, no. amy: donald trump's rally in georgia came a day after he

hosted hungary's authoritarian prime minister viktor orban at mar-a-lago. trump openly praised orban's autocratic style of rule. pres. trump: there is nobody that is better, smarter, better leader than viktor orbán. he does a great job. he says this is the way it is going to be and that is the end of it. get lost. amy: a u.n. fact-finding mission has found iran is responsible for the physical violence that killed mahsa amini in september 2022, sparking historic nationwide protests for months. mahsa amini was a 22-year-old kurdish woman who was arrested by iran's so-called morality police allegedly for not wearing a hijab properly. hundreds of people were arrested in demonstrations that erupted after her death. in a recent report, u.n. officials also accuse tehran of

committing crimes against humanity while employing "unnecessary and disproportionate use of lethal force" crack down on the protests. hundreds were killed by iranian police forces while at least nine demonstrators have been executed. millions of people across the globe took to the streets friday marking international women's day. marches took place in pakistan, indonesia, bangladesh, spain, ukraine, brazil, and dozens of cities around the world. in a historic move, france enshrined abortion rights in its constitution as crowds gathered in paris friday. meanwhile, over 180,000 people rallied in mexico city denouncing rampant gender violence and femicides as nearly 10 women were killed every day in mexico last year. >> i worry about my friends. i am worried something might happen to my daughter when she goes out to the street. i worry for the families looking for the women who never returned home. amy: hundreds of protesters calling for a ceasefire in gaza

blocked traffic on sunset boulevard in hollywood on sunday, forcing a short delay to the start of the oscars. several actors and musicians wore red artists4ceasefire pins, including oscar-winning billie eilish, ramy youssef, and mark ruffalo who arrived late to the ceremony due to the protests. >> the palestinian protests shut down the oscars. amy: during the oscars ceremony, filmmaker jonathan glazer condemned the israeli occupation after his holocaust film "the zone of interest" won an oscar for best international film. >> our film shows where dehumanization leads, at its worst. it shaped all of our past and present. right now we stand here as men who refute their jewishness and the holocaust being hijacked by an occupation which has led to conflict for so many innocent people --

[applause] whether the victims of october the 7th in israel or the ongoing attack on gaza. all the victims of this dehumanization. how do we resist? amy: the oscar for best documentary went to "20 days in mariupol" about russia's siege on the ukrainian city. the film was directed by mstyslav chernov, a ukrainian video journalist for the associated press. >> this is the first oscar in ukrainian history. [applause] i am honored. i am honored. probably will be the first director on the stage will say i wish i would never have made this film.

i wish to be able to exchange this to russia never attacking ukraine, never occupying our cities. amy: go to democracynow.org to see our coverage of "20 days in mariupol" and "the zone of interest." and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we begin today in haiti, where fighting continues between police and armed groups calling for the resignation of unelected prime minister ariel henry. over the weekend, police and palace guards worked to retake some streets in the capital port-au-prince after gangs launched large scale attacks on at least three police stations. haiti is under a state of emergency with tens of thousands displaced amidst the fighting. u.n. officials are warning the country's health system is nearing collapse due to shortages of staff, equipment,

and other resources to treat a growing number of wounded patients. meanwhile, the u.s. military said on sunday it conducted an overnight mission to airlift non-essential u.s. staff out of the country and to boost security at the u.s. embassy in port-au-prince. caribbean leaders issued a call late friday for an emergency meeting today in jamaica. they have invited the united states, france, canada, the u.n., and brazil to the meeting. caricom, the 15-nation caribbean bloc, said in a statement that "the situation on the ground remains dire." ariel henry was appointed prime minister after the july 2021 assassination of president jovenel moise. henry still has not returned to haiti after a trip to kenya where he was seeking a deal for a long-delayed u.n.-backed mission to haiti. kenya announced last year it would leave the force, but it

has effectively been placed on hold. henry arrived in puerto rico on tuesday after he was unable to land in the dominican republic with the dominican president saying henry was not welcome in the country for safety reasons. for more, we are joined by jemima pierre, professor at the social justice institute at the university of british columbia in canada, and research associate at the center for the -- associate at the university of johannesburg. she is a haitian-american scholar and co-coordinator of the black alliance for peace's haiti/americas team, which has been closely following the crisis in haiti. her recent article for nacla is headlined "haiti as empire's laboratory." professor, welcome to democracy now! can you start off by describing what you understand is the latest on the ground, who the armed groups are, and the different sectors that haitian

society that are joining together with those armed gangs and calling for the resignation of the unelected prime minister henry? >> good morning. thank you for having me. one of the things we need to start off with is these are paramilitary forces. i think gangs is an insufficient name for them because a lot of them are former military and police officers and they are heavily armed. what is happening is a bunch of different groups are coming together to say -- they call themselves "live together" which is a group of young men -- to say they want to get rid of ariel henry. here they are negotiations happening around the clock -- we hear there are negotiations happening around the clock.

apparently, they are supposed to be negotiations going on today in jamaica or the caricom countries. the problem, though, the fact there are all of these negotiations going on outside of haiti by many foreigners with no participation from the haitian masses. we have to go back to understand the root of this crisis is not last week, this week, not even ariel henry, but we have to go back to 2004 with the coup d'état. amy: take us on that journey back. if you will give us the historical context. in your piece, it is headlined "haiti as empire's laboratory." in a you write, " haiti has been and continues to be the main laboratory for u.s. imperial machinations in the region and throughout the world." explain. >> we say the crisis in haiti is

a crisis of imperialism. in 2004 come as has been admitted to, the u.s., canada got together and backed the could is, -- coup d'état against the country's first democratically elected president aristide. he was put on a plane come his wife, aid, and flew them to the central african republic. people can go to the democracy now! which cover this lie. i remember this happening live. the point of this was this coup d'état, which was led by two permanent members of the u.n. security council, was then sanctioned by the u.n. with these two same members come u.s. and france, basically pushed the u.n. secured a multinational military force to haiti armed under chapter seven deployment.

that itself was illegal because the original coup d'état was illegal. the u.s. ambassador and deputy ambassador were in the process -- they were named to the interim president would be, put together a counsel -- basically restructured haiti's elected president. back then we had 7000 elected officials. today we have zero. i say haiti has been under occupation because it is that military occupation that went from 2004-2007 that established a core group that is an unelected group of western officials, including brazil, which led the military arm of occupation under lula which led then -- has been controlling all of the actions in haiti down to naming who the prime minister would be, ariel henry, after the assassination of jovenel moise.

one at the key things that happened in 2010 after the earthquake in haiti that killed hundreds of thousands, where the u.s. pushed the sitting president to have elections. in the with the big paper's revealed to us -- wikileaks papers revealed to us later that hillary clinton changed the election results with a political party did not make the first round but the u.s. forced the haitian election counsel to put him in the second round. establishing that group as haiti's president with under 20% voting, not being able to participate, we set the stage for what we see today. by the time we get to ariel henry ring imposed on the haitian people, we had elected officials because we lost a lot

of -- put in jovenel moise who was also unpopular. we have not had any elections in haiti since 2016 when jovenel moise was selected for us by the core group. to understand what is going on, we have to understand how the original moment of the 2004 coup d'état led us to the complete destruction of the haitian state. if we don't do that, we don't understand these current flareups where people are saying they want their democracy back and say whatever negotiations that are happening outside of haiti has nothing to do with them because it is not included them. amy: when we went to the central african republic in the small plane with u.s. commerce member maxine waters and the late founder of trans africa rental robinson and a jamaican mp, we

flew to the central african republic. they would to retrieve the ari stides, who have been put there by the united states. as we were flying back over the atlantic, they got word that rumsfeld, condoleezza rice, and colin powell were saying the aristides were not to return to this hemisphere, were not to return to haiti. twitch randall robinson replied, "who's hemisphere?" he was not able to land in haiti and went into exile in south africa, where you have also taught for many years, for over seven years, and then we went to south africa when he finally returned to haiti. people can see all of those reports at democracynow.org. but i wondering -- i wanted to

talk about the latest news. "the miami herald" reporting secretary of state antony blinken spoke by phone thursday with the haitian prime minister ariel henry. in a series of calls that officials described as tense. this is the spokesperson matthew miller speaking wednesday about the violence in haiti. >> is a situation grows increasingly dire, we in caricom have continued to call on stakeholders to make concessions in the interest of the haitian people. we are not calling on him or pushing for him to resign but we are urging him to expedite the transition to an empowered and inclusive government structure that will move with urgency to help the country prepare for multinational security support mission to address the security situation and pave the way for free and fair elections. amy: but the reporter said that the u.s. was pushing ariel henry to resign.

what do you understand, professor, about the latest? and even where he is. is he still in puerto rico? >> he is in puerto rico under fbi protection. he had to leave the hotel he was in when he first later because haitian people living in puerto rico were protesting his presence in the state. that is important. u.s. government is being extremely hypocritical here because in 2004 when the u.s. planes landed at aristide's house, put him on a plane and told the world he resigned before his plane even landed in central african republic and basically put in power a whole new government. and now they're saying this unelected prime minister that they put in place refuses to resign where he actually had no legitimacy and no mandate whatsoever. i want to say quickly, to touch

back to the question earlier, the reason i say haiti as a laboratory because this is the first coup d'état sanctioned by the u.n. and haiti was ruled by a multi--- the occupation is multinational, multiracial, and almost seen as if this is a humanitarian effort as opposed to a coup d'état that has been successful. the whole world is participating in the occupation of haiti unwittingly because this is -- we have to remember how the u.s. will work and they will use their proxies to do their dirty work for them. i want to say what is happening on the ground with caricom is a problem because in 2004, patterson was a leader who was the president of caricom, very much against the removal of haiti's sitting president. he refused to acknowledge the government the u.s. put on us.

now caricom is bringing the u.s. , france, canada, the people who did the original -- to pick our leaders again. the problem is, if this goes on and -- other solutions that haitians have been putting together -- early 2021, you had "we need to start over" and it changed the system. we had the montana accord and local groups that had a solution before the jovenel moise assassination. the u.s. basically and nor the solutions. now they cannot say they are here to help haiti as much as trying to figure out how to put in place another a popular and illegal government so then we will have the same problem a few years down the line. the other thing i want to quickly say is that the people

finding these armed groups -- fudning these armed groups are part of the oligarchy. most of the guns and aim editions are coming from the u.s. a 2022, 20 23, the canadian government sanctioned the three just oligarchs and haiti. the canadian government also sanctioned the former president and his prime minister because they were -- for drug trafficking but also funding these armed groups. in the news we get these guys that look like ragged and poor but the people fudnding are the elites behind all of the violence. i also want to put that into

very clear context so we know this is a very complex problem that very much was set up by the 2004 coup but also perpetuated by the oligarch and the u.s., which worked together to keep haiti unstable, so we can say haiti is ungovernable and we need to come in and save it. amy: can you explain who philippe is, who just left u.s. prison in november? his role in the coup in 2004 and now what he is doing? >> this is very important. he was around in 2004. in fact, he was trained by the u.s. and ecuador and spent a lot of time training -- living and training in the dominican republic. in the lead up to coup d'état in 2004, you have the fall of 2003 -- what you had was philippe and

his armed group ransacked and attacked police stations and so on and so forth. back then, what is fascinating if you look up in the news, western media trade him as a freedom fighter. -- portrayed him as a freedom fighter. they supported him. he would say later he was being funded by the cia and so on. as soon what happened -- they tried to integrate these former armed military groups into the haitian national police because -- that is why so we have to call these paramilitaries because these are former armed groups that actually was funded by outsiders to oust our democratically elected president. and philippe was arrested by the u.s. and put in prison for drug trafficking. we have to understand because even during his trial, there were certain things kept secret

because it implicated the u.s. government. he served six years in prison as a criminal in the u.s. and now the u.s. dumped him in haiti in november 2023 after serving six years of an nine year term. now he is back running around saying he wants to be president. and you say -- everyone pretends -- saying haiti is that war but philippe is giving interviews to the mainstream press. we don't hear them in "the washington post" that we hear philippe. i wonder what the u.s. role is for him? he should be tried for treason because he worked with the u.s. to remove our elected president. we have to be very careful about what the u.s. is bringing, what the mainstream media is bringing to us as real and as the situation we know the situation is very much controlled by the

u.s. and the core group when it comes to haiti. amy: and "barbecue," the leader of one of the most powerful armed groups. explain his role right now and the alliance that has been formed between the armed groups and also really is it true for the very first time, sort of forming an alliance with the elite as well, at least agreeing that ariel henry should be ousted? >> yes. apparently, it seems like he has joined with the other groups that they were having trouble with. it is a combination of all kinds of groups that had worked and fought against one another and now coming together to get rid of henry. i think part of the problem, they are afraid of the supposed caning-lead but u.s. push --

kenyan-led but u.s. push. they are worried about their position in haitian society. i do think elites have to be brought into this. the oligarchs that are funding and supporting this. because this nonstop ammunition comes from somewhere. it comes from the ports owned by the elites. we don't know who is the machinations behind the gangs paying for them. we know they broke into the ports and emptied some containers. we don't know what they took but ports are owned by the oligarchs. what is going on in haiti is very important because i don't think it is a plan u.s. wanted, which is why they rushed henry to kenya to sign a bilateral agreement after that kenyan ports said it was unconstitutional for kenya to said police to haiti. i think things change more than they anticipated. now they're scrambling for a new

plan. meanwhile, poor people underground are the ones suffering. amy: jemima pierre, thank you so much for your analysis. professor at the social justice institute at the university of british columbia in canada. before that was at ucla and is research associate at the university of johannesburg. haitian-american scholar and co-coordinator of the black lines for peace, which has been closely following the crisis in haiti. we will lead to your piece in nacla "haiti as empire's laboratory." when we come back, guilty. that is the verdict on the former president of honduras, convicted of cocaine trafficking after a two week trial. we will go to took was about the for the latest -- to visicalc -- degrees ago

back in 20 seconds. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. former honduran president juan orlando hernandez has been found guilty of cocaine trafficking after a two-week trial in new york.

prosecutors accused him of ruling honduras as a narco-state, accepting millions of dollars in bribes from cocaine traffickers in exchange for protection -- including deploying the honduran national police to protect cocaine loads as they were transported through honduras. ahead of the trial in february, the former head of honduras's national police juan carlos "el tigre" bonilla pleaded guilty to cocaine trafficking charges. celebrations erupted after friday's verdict. this is a honduran activist speaking outside manhattan's federal courthouse. >> we are satisfied because justice has been done. honduras is a country thirsty for justice where impunity has prevailed. unfortunately, we honduran's have to come to foreign country to ask for justice because it does not exist there since the bodies for justice most of the public industry, prosecutor's office, judicial power continue

to collude with organized crime. the run political class we have has brought the country to total collapse and everyone we see here, this entire community, thirsting for justice, is a clear example of society in total collapse that is been trampled on and sunk by corrupt politicians. amy: during the trial, several convicted drug traffickers testified against hernandez, including some affiliated with the sinaloa cartel and the son of another former u.s.-backed honduran president, porfirio "pepe lobo" sosa. one confidential witness alleged officials with the israeli embassy in colombia were involved in the drug scheme and helped launder millions of dollars that were transferred from honduras. hernandez served as president from 2014 to 2022. he was a longtime u.s. ally despite mounting reports of human rights violations and accusations of corruption and involvement with drug smuggling . he was arrested less than a month after his term ended and extradited to the united states

. his brother tony hernandez is already serving a life sentence in the u.s. for drug smuggling. juan orlando hernandez faces life in prison now that he is convicted. for more, we are joined by two guests. in the honduras capital tegucigalpa, we're joined by camilo bermúdez, a member of the civic council of popular and indigenous organizations of honduras, the organization founded by berta caceres -- the lenca indigenous environmental defender who was assassinated in 2016 while hernandez was president. and we are joined by dana frank, professor of history emerita at the university of california, santa cruz. author of "the long honduran night: resistance, terror, and the united states in the aftermath of the coup." she attended the trial here in new york. we welcome you both to democracy now! professor frank, you were in new york when we last spoke to you. you went each day to the trial.

talk about the significance of this conviction and the testimony that was provided to convict him. >> it is an incredible vindication of what hondurans in so many of us have known since hernandez was elected, since the 2009 military coup overthrowing u.s.-backed celaya. it was hard for all of us to sit there every day and listen to this litany of assassinations of prosecutors, journalists, corruption of the police, the military, politicians, the president, his brother, you name it. it was like the curtain was drawn back and you could see the day-to-day workings of this tremendous violent corrupt mechanism that was the one her latest -- hernandez administration. all of this happened after the 2009 coup that opened the door for the destruction of the rule of law in honduras.

it was very sobering to listen to. terrified which way the jury was going to go. it is a great thing with very complicated caveats about the u.s. role in all of this. it is a great thing that he was convicted, legitimating what honduran snow but we can talk about what it means that it was the u.s. that did it. amy: let's talk about that. democracy now! went on the plane from nicaragua to honduras with these ally have --zelayas. >> this all flows back to 2002. the u.s. supported completely bogus election. a few months after that, his supported juan orlando he

overthrew the supreme court in 2012 as he was legitimated the fraudulent 20 13 election. you can see step by step-by-step how the u.s. continued to continue to endorse this illegal regime. most obviously in 2017 when he was supposedly reelected. it was clear he stole the election. international observers said you need to redo this. the u.s. kept juan orlando power for almost eight years and celebrated him and sit hundreds of military -- set hundreds of millions of military aid. it was obama, biden celebrating him when he was vice president. it was trump and it was biden again as president. it is a long and devastating story of what happened to the honduran people.

juan orlando was not just a drug trafficker and moving arms. he was a criminal on a vast scale. not only did he support the coup and the overturn of the supreme court come he ran for election legally in violation of the cost of -- illegally in violation of the constitution. he and his party stole money for his election, bankrupting it and leading to the death of tens of thousands of people. many of the crimes of juan orlando not just those narrowly defined by the southern district of new york is having imported cocaine and arms into united states. amy: camilo bermúdez, you're in the ground of tegucigalpa, member of the civic council of popular and indigenous organizations of honduras, the organization founded by berta caceres.

can you talk about the response on the ground when people heard their verdict on friday? >> thank you for the invitation. the reaction to the verdict against juan orlando this multiple. people are trying to process the news and the information the trial has brought to light. a majority feeling is satisfaction, feeling i've progress for people -- feeling of progress for people who have suffered at high rates. of course many are worried about what has happened, why it is happening in the u.s. and not honduras and what this says about the honduran justice system and what is going to happen next. of course some sectors are trying to minimize this and

others such as popular and evangelical pastors and media are trained to create doubt about the conviction. but an organization that we denounced many years on the criminal action of juan orlando, we're convinced about this conviction. many of us are raising questions about why the u.s. government knowing this information from at least 2015 continued to support juan orlando's authoritarian regime even when he ran for reelection in 2017. amy: what is so interesting is this is an election-year year in the united states. immigration is one of the major issues, if not the primary issue. many honduran s have -- many hondurans have

tried to flee to the united states, becoming what has become a narco state, with the help of the united states. camilo bermúdez, two people make that connection in honduras? how do they feel about the draconian immigrant response, the crack down on people trying to cross the border given what the u.s. has done in creating that situation? >> i think the thing people do to connections about how the state of honduras has become a narco state run by criminals, but it is not that easy to make the connection about the u.s. the u.s. government has come as going after juan orlando and it is difficult to read how this

impacts on the public. we remember -- several organizations remember during the juan orlando regime, multiples were assassinated. and it is known juan orlando -- we could not have done this without the support of the private companies and financial institutions. many people are wondering what are investigations against us, behind all of the violence that has come as a result of people leaving honduras. amy: and finally, professor

frank, what happens next? when is the sentencing? we just finished a whole segment on katie that is in total turmoil with not the same details, but similar u.s. shoring up of coup regimes. >> exactly. i was thinking about the previous speaker. this has been going on through the 20th century honduran history. what happens next is he can appeal. nobody thinks he will win on appeal. his next hearing is june 2020 six in new york. the minimum sentence is 40 years and he can get up to three life sentences. he is 55 years old. he will be in jail until he is 95 at the very least. in terms of what happens next, it is not the u.s. and biden administration that was wanting to get rid of juan orlando, it

was the southern district of new york that followed the money, follow the rugs commended this. -- follow the drugs and did this. right now the president of honduras and the centerleft president was elected by the biggest landslide in honduran history a little over two years ago, she faces a tremendously devastated government and economy. they are making progress and it is an incredible challenge that she and her government are facing. they don't control the congress. the u.s. has not said a peep. the ambassador who just loves to tweet out attacking the honduran government, she did was repeat what the southern district of new york said. the pattern in the last two years is that the u.s. has been repeatedly trying to undermine her and reforms she is put through or tried to put through of the tax system, the

electrical system, try to push back the corruption of all of the post-coup years. it is shameless the way the u.s. is continuing to work with a national party that is full of criminals. the president -- current president of the national party -- the u.s. has been supporting the national party in every way it can and acting like it is an equal actor. is it going to apologize? acknowledge what it did? we have to hold united states government accountable as he was congress has repeatedly tried to do. amy: dana frank, thank you for being with us, professor of history emerita at the university of california, santa cruz. and camilo bermúdez is a member of the civic council of popular and indigenous organizations of honduras, founded by the assassinated leader berta caceres. the organization called copin.

when we come back, report from gaza. ♪ [music break] amy: billie eilish and finneas o'connell. last on at oscars awards, they won for best original song. during their speech, they were wearing artists4ceasefire pins for gaza.

amy: the death toll from israel's five-month assault has topped 31,000. for more the situation on the ground in gaza, we turn to part 2 of my conversation with palestinian novelist, poet, and activist susan abulhawa. she is the author of several books and is best known for her debut novel "mornings in jenin," an international best-seller translated into 32 languages, considered a classic in palestinian literature. she's founder and co-director of playgrounds for palestine, a children's organization, and the executive director of palestine writes literature festival. she joined us on wednesday from cairo, egypt, one day after she returned from a two week trip to gaza. i asked her about the level of trauma that children in gaza are experiencing. >> the trauma is immeasurable, frankly, not just for children but for everybody. i spoke with a lot of women, in particular, who were recovering in a hospital or were there -- or, you know, being with their

children who were recovering. the stories they told me are just -- are out of like a hollywood horror film. i mean, there are -- i have photos of the backs of men where israeli soldiers carved pictures, smiley faces, stars of david, etc., in their skin. these women narrated stories to me of, you know, israeli soldiers laying them -- laying hundreds of women on the ground and then taking their guns with the laser and laughing, and then wherever the laser landed, they shoot. i spoke with a woman whose three-year-old daughter had both of her legs shattered, and she was in the hospital recovering. it was an intentional -- she was intentionally shot by a soldier. and this happened to her daughter after they killed her

son, shot him through the head, in what she described as tank fire toying with them for about 30 minutes before they finally delivered the final blow that took her son. people being forced to walk from hospitals, severe injuries, people being forced to walk for hours to get to safety. children and people, you know, who were fleeing their homes, trying to get to the south having to walk with their hands up with their ids and if anybody , dares to look down or pick anything up, they're picked off. they're literally shot by snipers. the scenes that they narrated to me -- i spoke with a little girl who was about eight years old whose face was badly burned, but her injuries were the least in the whole family. the entire family had third-degree burns all over their bodies.

and what she explained to me, again, you know, i don't know how a child survives that. i spent time in a hospital, in a maternity ward, where there were newborns who had either -- who were unknown or who were known but whose family was just absent and no longer there or nobody knows what happened to them. these newborns are spending 24/7, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, in incubators without any human touch, really, except when they come to feed them because the nurses and the doctors are so exhausted and so overworked. people are being discharged from hospitals with wounds and going into tents where they don't have running water and proper hygiene, and they're getting horrible infections and dying from sepsis.

you know, life on the beach, you know, the beach is where palestinians used to go for fun, to love, to be with family. and it is torture now because a lot of tents are pitched in the sand and the sand is in everything. people's skin is scorched. i mean, children walk around with cracked cheeks from the sun and sand. the sand gets in every bite of food. the food that does come in, into rafah, is primarily canned food. and most of it -- and i think you hinted at this earlier, and i've seen it and tasted it myself -- it is stuff that has clearly been sitting on shelves for decades. and all you can taste, really, is the rancidity, metallic taste of the can. you know, this is -- people

schedule their days, they plan their days around trying to get to a single shared bathroom that's shared by hundreds of other families. they try to do their best with hygiene but it's impossible. and when you have -- when people succumb to living in filth, people -- you know, i think maybe people in the west sort of have this impulse thought that most black and brown people sort of live like this. so it's a little humiliating to have to explain that we don't actually live in filth. and it's degrading, beyond anything you can imagine, to be forced to live like this months on end, to have no way to protect your children, no way to give them hope, no way to calm their fears.

you know, there's no privacy in the tents because, you know, there's not enough tents for families. so families are actually separated with, you know, dozens of women in one tent and dozens in another. so spouses cannot even hold each other at night when they need that care the most. it's these details that are traumatizing en masse for children, for parents, for elderly. people don't have medicines. people are dying from lack of insulin, which, by the way, israel has banned from coming into gaza. and they're dying from diarrhea because they're drinking polluted water, and israel has also banned water treatment, water filtration systems, even handheld ones, simple personal water filtration systems that, you know, americans use when

they go camping. the degradation is total, amy. and on top of that, they're bombed day in and out even in rafah. when i was there, there was not a single night that we didn't hear bombs, and at least once was close enough that the building i was in shook and we thought our building had actually been hit. but it was the one -- it was one over from where i was. and there was another moment, too, when a tent by a hospital, where we had just been, was bombed. they bombed a tent. and it actually happened to be the tent that is adjacent to the tent that bisan owda was in. and they were sitting, eating. they were sitting on the ground eating, and shrapnel just came above their heads.

amy: palestinian novelist, poet, and activist susan abulhawa. she joined us last week from cairo, egypt, one day after she returned from gaza. to see part