07/05/24 07/05/24 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> those violations of humanitarian law, the violations of the right to life. all the instruments that we've established in 1948 so far have proven to be, frankly, useless. we are really as close to the

habits as we have ever been. amy: "the night won't end." a new al jazeera documentary follows three palestinian families in gaza and takes an in-depth look at attacks on civilians by the israeli military and the u.s. role in the war. we'll play excerpts and speak with journalists who made the film, director kavitha chekuru and correspondent sharif abdel kouddous. then "birding while black." new york city's chapter of the audubon society has officially changed its name to the nyc bird alliance. john audubon, the "founding father of american birding," was a slave holder. we speak to christian cooper, a black birder and lgbtq activist. it was four years ago when a white woman in central park called 911 claiming he was threatening her life after he asked her to leash her dog. >> and she told me, first i'm

going to call the police and tell them that an african american man is threatening my life. and of course, you know, i'm like, whoa, you know. i'm not an idiot. i've grown up as a black man in america my whole life. i know this is a world of hurt potentially coming my way. but, you know, i'm not going to -- i'm not going to acquiesce to this and let this intimidate me. amy: christian cooper just won an emmy for his national geographic series "extraordinary birder." all that and more coming up. this is democracy now! democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nine months ago, israel launched its war on gaza following hama'' surprise attack on october 7. we begin today's special broadcast by looking at a new documentary that just premiered on fault lines on al jazeera english. the film is called "the night won't end" and it takes an

end up look at israeli military attacks on civilians in gaza and the u.s. role in the war. over the course of several months, the filmmakers worked with journalists in gaza to follow three palestinian families as they recount the horrific experiences they've suffered and their struggle for survival amid the relentless israeli assault. this is an excerpt of the film that starts with the secretary general of amnesty international agnes callamard. >> the number of victims, the collective punishment, the denial of humanitarian assistance very early on, those violations of humanitarian law, the violations of the right to life -- all the instruments that we've established in 1948 so far have proven to be, frankly, useless. we are really as close to the

abyss as we have ever been. >> i swear i can't sleep. i think about them all night. i look at their photos and cry over them. young girls, they are 6 and 8 years old, without a mom. these girls have no mom. they ask me, "where's mama?" >> and despite the massive loss of life and numerous allegations from human rights groups of violations of international law, the united states, israel's main ally, never wavered in its support. >> i think the u.s. has actual knowledge that war crimes are being committed. of course we do. they are in the newspapers and on the television every day. and we certainly have other means of knowing what is happening in gaza. and yet we continue to provide the arms that enable these. so inherently, we are complicit. >> among gaza's more than 2 million people, no family has been spared the impact of this war. to understand that struggle, we worked with journalists in gaza

to hear the stories of three families about their devastating losses and what it's been like trying to survive. >> when the night falls, it feels endless. you even wake up all night, wondering, "will the morning arrive?" eyad, when he wakes up at night, he puts his head under my head and hides his face from the night. he asks me, "is the night not over? is the night not going to end?" the night won't end. the night is long. the night is terrifying. the night means fear. the night means remembering hind. amy: that is an excerpt of "the night won't end," a new documentary that just premiered on al jazeera english. that last voice was the mother of hind rajab, the six-year-old girl killed by israeli forces in gaza. one of the three families profiled in the film.

democracy now!'s nermeen shaikh and i recently spoke to two people who worked on the film. kavitha chekuru is a journalist and the director of "the night won't end." and sharif abdel kouddous is the correspondent on the film and also a longtime democracy now! correspondent. amy: this is an epic work. it is devastating. talk about the scope of the work and the families you profile and why you chose to do this. sharif: well, i think, you know, when doing a documentary or any film on gaza, it's very hard to decide where to begin and what to focus on -- the sheer scale of what's happening there, not just the mass killings of civilians, but the complete erasure of all aspects of civilian life, the destruction of homes, schools, universities, the entire healthcare system, hospitals, mosques, churches, the unprecedented number of u.n. workers who have been killed, the unprecedented number of

journalists who have been killed, the killing of the future with the unfathomable number of children who have been killed. so no piece can really quite capture the magnitude of the atrocities in gaza, but what we tried to do in this film is to follow three families and follow -- document their struggle for survival in gaza. and what you find is that it's almost nearly impossible to stay alive in gaza. they're constantly searching for safety. and each family's case tells a wider story of the war. so we look at the salem family, where there's a massive airstrike on their home. and airstrikes, of course, have been almost unprecedented in this war. we also look at the killing of civilians in so-called humanitarian zones, or so-called safe zones, where people forced to be displaced to, ordered to go and told they're safe, but they're hit there as well. and we look at the killings of civilians and the arbitrary execution of civilians by israeli ground troops. so we tried to provide this tiny glimpse through a combination of

investigative journalism and up-close-and-personal storytelling. and we look at the u.s. role in all of this. the biden administration's continued backing of the war and its ignoring of international humanitarian law, its ignoring of domestic law, in its continued backing of israel. and finally, normally at fault lines, we cover stories on the ground. and obviously, journalists have been barred from entering gaza for the past eight months by both israel and egypt. and so, the reason we know anything about what's happening in gaza, what we've known over these past eight months, is because of palestinians, palestinian journalists on the ground in gaza who have done incredibly brave work, who have shouldered all the labor of covering this war, and who have been killed in record numbers by the israeli military. and so we worked with -- this film was only made possible by this team of palestinian journalists that we worked with over the course of several months who followed these families, who filmed with them, who interviewed them, who did a lot of the reporting.

some of the cinematography is quite stunning. we're very used to seeing this conflict on footage shot on phones. and you really see the difference when people are filming people up close in this way. and finally, you know, these journalists, of course, suffer and go through some of the same things as the families that they're covering. they've had family members who have been killed. they are displaced. they are hungry. they don't have food to feed their families. it's very hard for them to get around. and so this film is really a testament to their courage, to their bravery, and their dedication to telling the story of what's happening in gaza. nermeen: so, kavitha, you're the director of the film. if you could talk a little bit more about what sharif said, how you found the journalists to work with, how you coordinated with them? and one of the things that's -- i mean, there are many things that are amazing about the film, but one of them is the fact that you -- as you're talking to these families and they're recounting what's happened to

members of their family, often several members of their family, you can show footage of the family members they're speaking of who were killed or otherwise injured when it actually happened. so on the one hand, you're interviewing people. they're recounting what happened. and then you're showing live footage from that time. so if you could talk about that and, in particular, how you coordinated with all these different journalists on the ground in gaza? >> yeah. so we worked with a really amazing palestinian production company called media town. they have a long-standing relationship with al jazeera. and they have teams around gaza who do news coverage and documentary coverage. and so, you know, like sharif was saying, these journalists are living through -- while they're covering the war, they're also experiencing the same things that they're covering, right? so starvation. hussien, the producer in the north, his daughter was killed by ground troops in december and she was four years old.

and he himself was also severely injured and had surgery while the team was filming for this documentary. so they're experiencing all of these things as they're also doing this work to show the world what is happening in gaza. and in terms of coordinating, it was, you know, the teams -- one of the things that probably sounds simple but it's not, it is the communication. they don't have cellphone coverage or steady internet access. and so even just sending us the footage was a matter of them making sure they were safe enough to go up to a roof and send the footage. and even that was a big piece of it. and another thing is that, you know -- that was one part, and we also worked with a number of other independent journalists that we found. and a lot of times these journalists have their numbers on their instagram profile, which is how we got in touch with them. and i say that only because i feel like the larger journalism

industry could do a better job of connecting with journalists on the ground. you know, democracy now!, i think, is one of the few places that i feel like i've seen journalists from gaza constantly on air. you don't see that on a lot of networks. and, you know, these journalists are there shouldering the burden and they're ready to do that work. and i think more of the industry could be getting in touch with them. nermeen: so one of the stories in the -- one of the families that's profiled is the family of hind rajab, the six-year-old girl who was killed by the israeli military. we just heard in the introduction, as part of your -- the film, agnès callamard saying, "we are as close to the abyss as we've ever been." and her story, perhaps, exemplifies that more than any. if you could say, sharif? >> yeah, i think, you know, hind rajab's name is known around the world, because after she was killed in late january by the israeli military, the recording of her voice speaking to the red

crescent was released and broadcast and it reverberated across the globe. and she became a symbol of israeli violence against civilians and a symbol of palestinian strength as well. and she really became an icon. and we saw here in new york city at columbia university students who took over a building, named it hind's hall in her honor. but what we do in the film is, perhaps, provide one of the most comprehensive accounts on video of the killing of hind rajab and her relatives by the israeli military. and what happened was -- we speak with her mother wissam hamadah. and her mother fled her home in gaza in the north trying to seek shelter in the south. the south continued to be bombed. so she decided to return back to the north with her two children -- her son eyad, who i believe

is three years old, and hind, who is six. and they stayed with relatives in the north, including her 15-year-old cousin layan. so on january 28, there was very heavy attacks by the israeli military in gaza city near where hind and her mother and relatives were staying. she describes that the family was trying to huddle in the center of the apartment because the fire was reaching on the outside. so the next morning, they decide they have to leave to find safety. wissam's uncle bashar takes his daughter layan, who's 15, hind, and gets in a car and says, "we're going to drive to another town to find shelter. i'm going to come back to get hind's mother and eyad, her as soon as they leave, they're fired on by the israeli military. hind's mother actually sees this. it's only a couple blocks away. she can't get to them. there's firing in the area. she somehow manages to flee on foot. as soon as they find shelter, she calls the palestinian red crescent in ramallah to try and get someone to rescue and find

out what happened. so first she tries to call her uncle bashar. calls, calls, calls. no one answers. who picks up? layan, the 15-year-old cousin of hind. she describes to hind's mother that everyone in the car has been killed except for her and hind. both her and hind are bleeding. she says, "we've been injured." so they get in touch with the red crescent. and we're going to play a clip right now from the documentary, where the emergency medical worker at the red crescent in ramallah, omar al-qam, calls layan to try and figure out what's happening. eventually, relatives were able to reach the red crescent in ramallah to see if their team in gaza could send an ambulance. >> we received an appeal that the car had been targeted at fares gas station in gaza city.

>> when omar called, it was layan who picked up. >> hello, dear. >> they are shooting at us. >> hello. >> they are shooting at us. the tank is next to me. >> are you hiding? >> yes, in the car. the tank is next to us. >> are you inside the car? hello? hello? a girl dies while she's on the phone with you. i disassociated. i reached a stage where i was just mentally cut off. i'm trained for situations like this, but when it involves a child, your emotions get all mixed up.

after calling back the same number that layan answered, the voice sounded different this time. so i asked her, "the girl that was speaking with me, where is she?" she told me, "she's dead." who am i speaking with now? hind? >> after a few minutes, omar asked other colleagues to help and speak with hind. >> the tank is next to me. >> the tank is where? >> next to me. >> the tank is next to you? >> yes.

>> is it moving or still? did anyone come out of it? >> it's moving. >> it's moving? >> mm. >> ok. is it moving next to the car, behind the car, or in front of the car? >> in front of the car. >> the tank is coming toward you from the front of the car? >> yes. >> is it very close? >> very, very. >> and it's moving? >> yes. come get me. >> as the red crescent dispatcher spoke with hind, colleagues were trying to get an ambulance to her, something that would require coordination with an approval by israeli authorities. >> usually, ambulances in the whole world, once they get the call, they directly dispatch the ambulances and send to save

people's life. unfortunately, this is not the case in gaza. >> come get me. >> any area that there is israeli occupation forces, israel considered as it is a military zone. that means even if there is wounded people, people who are killed and need to be evacuated, we are completely denied access to these areas. and if any ambulance try to reach, it will be targeted. that's why in order to be able to save hind, we had to coordinate our safe access. amy: that last voice was nebal farsakh, the spokesperson for palestinian red crescent, explaining how emergency medical teams in gaza need to get clearance from israeli authorities before going in to rescue hind. they do get that clearance. let's turn back to the documentary to see what happened next. >> finally, nearly three hours after requesting clearance, the red crescent says israeli officials gave the approval for the ambulance to go to the

scene and provided this map with an approved route. >> we had to wait almost three hours until the green light was given. so they sent a map with a route, which means it identified exactly which route the ambulance should take. and once we received the green light, the ambulance was dispatched. >> the two paramedics who started driving to the scene were ahmed al-madhoun and yusuf zeino. by the time they left, the sun had set. >> can you see the car? >> i can't see a thing here. >> do you have your siren and flashing lights on? >> just the lights, not the siren. oh, there it is!

>> the connection to the ambulance was lost right after that loud noise. >> they had to ask her, "did you hear a bomb now? did you hear anything around you?" and she said, "yes, yes, i heard it." her "yes" means our colleagues who went to rescue her had died. amy: "the night won't and," that's an excerpt of. sharif, before we go to break, and so, what happened to everyone? >> well, they kept talking to hind on the phone. that call lasted almost three hours. and at some point, night comes

on. hind's voice gets fainter and fainter -- we have to remember she's injured, she's bleeding -- and then her voice disappears. and, you know, it's basically 12 days before the israeli forces withdraw, civil defense workers can enter that area. they confirm that hind has been killed, along with her entire family and the two ambulance workers have been killed with a direct hit on the ambulance. amy: even though israel had given their permission for them to go in. >> they gave them permission with a map with an approved route. amy: we will continue this discussion sharif abdel kouddous and kavitha chekuru after a break and air more excerpts from the new al jazeera fault lines documentary "the night won't end." ♪ [music break]

amy: "hind's hall" by macklemore. hind's hall, the name that encampment activists gave to hamilton hall at columbia university when they took it over. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman, with nermeen shaikh. as we go back to our conversation with sharif abdel kouddous and kavitha chekuru about "the night won't end," a new documentary that just premiered on al jazeera. the film profiles three families in gaza. i asked kavitha to tell us about the salems. >> so the salem family, they're

a family in north gaza. and after being displaced from their home early in the war, they were sheltering with relatives. and on december 11, a massive airstrike hit the building. over 100 people were killed, mostly from their extended family. and so after that, the building was destroyed. they tried to find shelter elsewhere. a week later in the building they had gone to, after -- basically, in the days leading up to that, israeli ground troops, who at this point had a pretty substantial presence in the north, they had laid siege to the building. according to the civilians we spoke to, no one fought back, so the soldiers would have known that it was only civilians there. on december 19 in the afternoon, israeli soldiers entered the building. they separated the men and women. they stripped the men. and then they summarily executed

at least 11 of the men in that building. amy: sharif, set up this next clip. >> well, as kavitha describes -- and let me just say that the salem family is featured in an ap investigation that was just reported a few days ago that was looking at 60 palestinian families that lost at least 25 family members each. and this is the wiping out of entire bloodlines of families across generations. and this is part of the genocide case that's been brought against israel at the international court of justice. and the salem family is a part of that. but this family, after being bombed, losing 100 people of their family, then moves to try and seek shelter, as kavitha explained. on december 19, israeli troops are around the area. they've been shelling this building. no one's fighting back. they enter the building and they storm the apartments. they separate the men and the women. they beat them. they abuse them. and then we hear the witnesses describe what happens next.

>> the women have been separated from the men, but hiba says they could see them from where they were. >> they tortured them while we were watching them. they broke my husband's jaw. they broke this part of his face. he began bleeding. they tortured him by beating his arms with their rifles until they bled. and the same with my son. they beat him all over his body. then they stripped them of their clothes, just kept them in their boxers and made them all lay down on the ground like this. >> the survivors say the israeli soldiers then executed the men in front of them. >> they started to carry out executions in front of our eyes. they didn't spare anyone. they created a bloodbath, i swear to god. it's a day that cannot be forgotten. it won't be forgotten. >> at least 11 men were killed, including hiba's husband ayman. yahya and uday were both injured and passed out but they

survived. >> there was someone next to me who tried to get up, so they fired a crazy number of bullets at him. this is on top of the torture they subjected us to. i passed out from the torture. >> i was hit here with two bullets. i lost consciousness. between one moment and the next, i was near death. no matter what i say, i won't be able to express what i felt and lived through. this was one of the worst days of my life. amy: yahya then keels over as he describes what happened. he and another man were the only two survivors of the men. kavitha, how did you corroborate this story? for our radio audience, we are

showing blood on the walls. but how did you tell this story? >> yeah. so we began with the survivors. we have the testimony of six survivors from that attack. then there's a number of other pieces that we were able to kind of put together, one of which is satellite imagery from december 19, which around 8:30 a.m. shows tanks one block away from the building. so we know that the -- so there's that. and then there's the testimony. and then once the soldiers left the building, one of the survivors, she started sending whatsapp messages on a group chat, and it went to a number of their relatives who were outside of gaza. so we were able to get those messages and spoke to the woman who sent them, as well as two of the people who received it, and verified the time. and then the next day, a number of civilians -- once the soldiers left the building and left that vicinity, other people

went into the building and they start -- they took a video, which we were able to verify. and in the video, you see -- not only do you see the bodies of the men, you see -- we didn't show this because it was too graphic, was the body of the salem's young -- their daughter, nada. and then at the very end of it, you see yahya, alive, barely alive. and then there was another video of that, as well, so there's two videos. and then in addition to that, al jazeera, the news crew in the area, filmed the survivors when they went to the hospital. so it was kind of, basically, a chronological piecing together of everything that happened. amy: so i want to get to accountability. you were not granted an interview with the white house or state department, so you sought out the secretary of state antony blinken as he was testifying at a congressional appropriations hearing. now, sharif, you are coming up to him, approaching him with this question. >> secretary blinken, a question

from al jazeera. what is your message to the families of palestinian civilians who were killed with u.s. weapons in gaza? why is your administration not enforcing u.s. and international law to hold israel accountable? amy: so sharif, you are chasing secretary of state antony blinken but did not succeed in getting an answer from him. >> let me just say, amy, that we tried for months, months literally, to ask for an interview with the white house, anyone at the white house or the state department. amy: kavitha, you've been trying since january? >> january was the first email i sent to the state department. >> and we were granted no access, no interviews whatsoever. so we resorted to trying to track down officials. we went to several white house press briefings -- i wasn't called on -- went to state department press briefings, wasn't called on. so we had this chance with secretary blinken. he didn't answer the question. but, you know, this just goes to the point of the biden administration has unequivocally

supported israel in its war on gaza. time and time again, they have bypassed congress, twice at least, to continue arming israel. and there's no question that u.s. weapons have killed civilians in gaza. and so this violates both international humanitarian law and domestic law. and we hear the secretary general of amnesty international saying she will never forget u.s. complicity in this conflict. nermeen: well, also, sharif, i mean, one of the people that you interview in the documentary is akbar shahid ahmed, who tells you explicitly that he's spoken to israeli officials who say that the u.s. could stop the war now because israel could not prosecute the war without the u.s. >> well, i think that's very clear. the united states is israel's top arms supplier. it's its top backer economically and diplomatically. we saw them veto multiple security council resolutions calling for a ceasefire at the u.n.

israel could not prosecute this war without the continued arming, billions of dollars' worth of arms to israel. and i think that's very clear. and just before we end, i just want to say that we have dedicated the film to the journalists of gaza, and particularly to our al jazeera colleagues who were killed, including samer abudaqa, who was killed in an israeli strike on a school in khan younis on december 15 that also injured al jazeera's bureau chief wael al-dahdouh. and then his eldest son was killed in a drone strike along with mustafa thuraya, another journalist working with al jazeera, on their car just northeast of rafah on january 7. and they're just three of the journalists, amongst as many as 150 journalists, who have been killed -- a record number. and this film is dedicated to them. amy: sharif abdel kouddous, correspondent on the new al jazeera english documentary "the night won't end" and kavitha

chekuru, the firms director. the full documentary can be watched on youtube. we will link to it at democracynow.org. coming up, christian cooper on "birding while black." ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. it was four years ago, 2020 when our next guest christian cooper made national headlines when a white woman in central park called 911 on him, falsely claiming that cooper, who is black, was threatening her life. the woman, amy cooper, no relation to him, made the call after christian cooper asked her to follow park rules and put her dog on a leash. they were in an area of the park popular with birders from the ramble. video went viral in part because it happened on the same day that minneapolis police murdered george floyd. we will talk about what christian cooper calls the central park incident in a minute. he would go on to write a memoir titled better living through

birding." the paperback has just come out. he also hosted the national geographic episode series "extraordinary birder" for which he just won a daytime emmy award . in june, new york city's chapter of the audubon society officially changed its name to the nyc bird alliance. john audubon, the founding father of american birding, was a 19th century french american naturalist and a slaveholder who espoused racist views. in march, the national audubon society voted to retain the audubon name. that set off a revolt among leaders of local chapters of the society. democracy now!'s nermeen shaikh and i recently spoke to christian cooper, longtime board member of what was the audubon society, now called nyc bird alliance. he's also a longtime lgbtq activist and served as co-chair of the board of directors of glaad in the 1980's.

i began by asking christian about the nyc bird alliance's decision and who john audubon was. >> first of all, what you can't take away from him is he put birds -- north american birds on the map. that was principally through his amazing art. we're lucky enough to be in new york city, where the new york historical society has the original audubons -- not the original prints, the original paintings. and i was lucky enough to see those at the new york historical society. and they are astonishing. they're gorgeous. you can't take that away from the guy. you do have to put an asterisk on it, which says, "yeah, and his work was funded by the trafficking in other human beings." and it's that part that makes it very difficult for us, looking forward, when we're trying to diversify birding, which traditionally has been a very, very white activity, in the most

diverse city in the world, or certainly in the country. so this name became an impediment to our efforts to diversify. and because we're trying to look forward, we're like, "yeah, we've got to ditch it. we've got to lose it. we've got to get a name that doesn't present a barrier to everybody's participation." we're throwing the doors open for everybody and saying, "you're all welcome in birding." amy: but the national audubon society has not decided to go this route. what are the chapters, some, like seattle? >> right. seattle has picked a new name. wisconsin, a couple of wisconsin chapters have picked a new name. illinois has picked a new name, or chicago has picked a new name. i lose track. there have been so many that have changed names. and a lot of us, though not all of us, have settled -- oh, georgia picked a new name. but a lot of us have settled on bird alliance as the new name. so we are now the nyc bird alliance. and the hope is that -- and the idea is not, you know, to erase

audubon, to cancel audubon. you can't. the man's history is what is. you know, like i said, you've got to give it an asterisk, but it's there. it's real. but that doesn't mean you've got to have that name on your organization, particularly when you're trying to take an organization that for so long has been almost exclusively white and you're trying to get other people involved. you know, you don't -- for example, imagine you were a country club that had a history of excluding jews. and you're like, "oh my goodness, we've got to change that. we've got to invite some jews. hey, guys, don't you want to join the josef mengele country club?" how many jews are you going to get? you're not. that's kind of -- that's kind of what we were facing with audubon. so it's not a matter of erasing him. the history is still there. it comes with an asterisk, but it's there. but looking forward and getting everybody involved. and why is it so important to diversify? not just because it's the right

thing to do, but because we have lost one-third of our birds in north america. i'm not talking about species. i'm talking about raw numbers. the populations are down in my lifetime. i know this because i go out there and i bird and i feel it and i see it. and we all do. we have lost one-third of the birds in north america just in my lifetime, since i started birding when i was about 10 years old. and the only way we're going to turn this around -- because we can turn it around. we've done it in new york city, in some ways -- is if we get everybody involved in birding that possibly could be interested because the country is diversifying. new york city is already a diverse city. if we don't have all hands on deck, we're not going to be able to save the birds. amy: so christian, you exploded onto the national scene a few years ago because of an incident in central park. and let's go back to that day.

we're talking about memorial day 2020. so it's in the height of the pandemic. everyone is masked. there are no vaccines. it is, horrifyingly, also the day that george floyd was killed. but when you were out in central park that morning, he was still alive. and we want to turn to what happened on that day. describe to us what time you went out in the morning and what you were doing and then what happened. >> condensed version -- i got out at 5:30, which is my usual time to hit the park that time of year. i'm looking for birds. it was a relatively slow day. there was a particular bird called the mourning warbler, which is typically one of the last warblers to come through in the migration. so this is very late in the migration. and i'm looking for a mourning warbler. mourning warblers are skulkers. they stay close to the ground, for the most part, hidden in the shrubs. so i'm heading towards this patch of shrubs to look for a

mourning warbler. amy: how did you know it was there? >> oh, i didn't know it was there. i'm hoping to find it. so i'm keeping my ears open for "chery, chery, chery, chweer. chery, chery, chery, chweer." that's the song of the mourning warbler. and if i hear that, then i know there's one hiding in those shrubs and i've got to wait him out and look for him. so i'm heading for a patch of habitat of low-lying growth where i'm likely to find one. and then i hear "henry!" at the top of the lungs, the way nobody would talk to a human being, so i know it's a dog off the leash. and then i see it tearing exactly through the low-growing growth where i was hoping to find a mourning warbler. i'm like, "well, if there was one there before, there's not one there now." so this is an ongoing problem in central park, particularly in the ramble, where dogs have to be on the leash at all times. there are signs posted everywhere telling everybody that. so this has been an ongoing war between certain dog walkers -- i don't want to tar all dog walkers with a bad brush,

because there are some who actually follow the rules. but this has been an ongoing war for many, many, many years between dog walkers and birders. and so, you know, we got into it. i'm like, "you know, look, your dog's supposed to be on the leash. the sign's right there. look, all you have to do is take the dog across the road there to that other part of the park or outside the ramble. you can have your dog off the leash until 9:00 a.m., and we're all good." she was having none of it. eventually she ends up pulling the dog by the collar. amy: not leashing it, but picking it up. >> right, right. amy: by the collar. >> right, yeah. let's not relive the whole thing. but the bottom line is, i start recording her with my iphone, because that's one of the strategies we have when people are breaking the rules is to document it. it puts pressure on them because most people don't like to be recorded breaking the rules, and it's documentation for us to show the parks department. >> please take your phone off. >> please don't come close to me.

>> that i'm going to -- i'm calling the cops. >> please call the cops. please call the cops. >> i'm going to tell them there's an african american man threatening my life. >> please tell them whatever you like. >> i'm sorry, i'm in the ramble, and there is a man, african american. he has a bicycle helmet. he's recording me and threatening me and my dog. there is an african american man. i am in central park. he is recording me and threatening myself and my dog. and like -- i'm sorry, i can't hear you. i'm being threatened by a man in the ramble. please send the cops immediately! i'm in central park in the ramble. i don't know! amy: talk about what happened with that video. >> you know, i put it on facebook, because i have a tendency to put what happened that's notable to me on facebook after a day of birding. usually it's a bird. this was not a bird. but i put it on facebook. immediately, one or two friends called me up and said, "can you make this public so i can share it?" and i'm like, "all right, fine." and then my sister called me, and she was seething,

understandably. and she said, "can i put it on twitter?" and i'm like, "ok, yeah, sure. put it on twitter." and then it just kind of exploded and became a thing, you know, became even more of a thing because it ended up being on the same day that george floyd was murdered. so you know, it was a window, i think, for a lot of people into what we african americans know because we live it every day. but i think for a lot of people who aren't african american, they were able to see in those two videos, you know, the use of racial bias and how it informs policing or people try to use it in policing sometimes, and then the actual police response, you know, against african americans that gets us killed. so it opened some eyes, i think, maybe, that hadn't been open before, for a while. nermeen: did the police come? >> they did eventually come, or, as i understand it, but, by

then, we were both long gone. you know, i considered at the moment staying around to clear things up with the police. and then i thought, "no, she doesn't get to do that. i'm here to bird and i'm going back to birding. and, you know, and if i run into the police, fine, then i'll tell them what happened. but, meanwhile, i'm looking for birds." and i did that. and no police came. and then i left the park and went home. amy: did you find the warbler? >> i did not find the mourning warbler that morning. amy: so cyrus vance was the manhattan d.a. talk about what they wanted to happen and your response, overall, and what happened to amy cooper. >> so the bottom line is, cyrus vance wanted to -- you know, it was a very public case. so the manhattan d.a. wanted to prosecute her for filing a false report, which is fine. you know, that's his prerogative. he wanted my participation in that. and that's where i had to make a decision as to whether or not i was going to pursue it. and i chose not to.

and that was a hard decision. and i know a lot of people, especially black people, you know, were not happy with that decision. but i had to kind of trust my conscience and my conscience said -- you know, her life had imploded. she lost her job. she was a pariah nationwide. you know, if none of that is going to send a message to people this is not the thing to do, then i'm not sure anything will. it felt like piling on on my part. and so i was just like, "you know what? you have the ability to pursue these charges without me. please, you know, go ahead and do so if you feel the need. i don't feel like i need to participate in this." nermeen: if you could talk about who introduced you to bird watching for at least the possibility of birding and what it enabled for you, this engagement with nature and with birds in particular.

>> my father was a science teacher for his whole life. and for good stretch of that i biology teacher so nature was always important to him. he took us camping a lot as kids. nature was always very important in our household, for me, for whatever particular for birds. had a bird feeder and put it in the backyard and i saw a bird coming to us with the patch of red on the wings. i was like, i discover this new species of crow. i was excited with my tour de force of youthful discovery. turns out it was a black bird. still one of my favorite birds to this day. that is what you would call my spark bird, and the language of birdwatchers, the bird that gets you started. after that, it was like going down the rabbit hole. that is what started it. at about nine or 10. i just kept at it. my dad took me to the bird walks

of the audubon society which at the time were led by this guy named elliott who was just like brilliance personified. he took one look at me and my interest in birds and he was like, this one's mine. from then on, it was great. he nurtured that interest. nermeen: how did it come to serve the kind of -- you mentioned that several times in the book, it is a kind of refuge from the different forms of marginalization or exclusion that you felt both as a black man and also as someone who's queer. >> also it was a part of the marginalization, ironically, because, you know, being a birder in the 1970's in junior high is not going to make the most popular kid on the planet. but what it is -- and this is

true for everybody i would say -- is that birding forces you outside of yourself. whatever your woes are. i knew i was gay from like the age of five. for me, it was being in the closet. if you're worried about your rent. like, "oh, my god, my life is a misery. i have this illness" or whatever and then you get outside and you're looking for birds. first of all, you're in this beautiful natural setting or semi-natural setting, so that comes you down, takes you outside yourself. but then if you want to see birds, you've got to focus. you have got to be listening and looking or you won't see any birds. would you do that, or engaging to look at the world around you in such a way that whatever those woes are, for at least a little while, they fall away. and it is very meditative. it is transporting. it makes you feel connected to the whole planet. it engages your senses, your intellect.

it is incredibly healing. and that is one of the reasons i'm like, "black people do this." if there is anyone in this society that needs healing, that needs are woes to fall away for a while, it is us. and then at the fact that birds are the ultimate symbol of freedom, because there is no part of the planet that is inaccessible to them. they can fly. they are symbols of freedom. several people whose history is about being enslaved, for us being able to relate to this bird, it is liberating. that is why think birding was so important to me as a kid and why i just think everybody, but particularly black people, should be birding in droves. amy: i want to ask about "extraordinary birder" with christian cooper. you just won an emmy. i wanted to turn to the introduction that plays at the beginning of each episode.

>> look at all those ravens. i'm christian cooper, and i am a birder. ah, that was cool! my dad was a biology teacher and gave me my first pair of binoculars when i was about 10 years old, and i never put them down. wow! not something i've seen in my life. now i'm traveling the globe to explore the world of birds -- that's amazing. it's like a cloud. and their relationship with us, those of us who don't have wings. and along the way, i'll show you what i adore about these crazy smart -- your first look at the outside world! dazzling. it's fantabulous! and superpowered feathered creatures. amy: this is a clip from the "extraordinary birder" episode called "birds of puerto rico," again, hosted by our guest, christian cooper. >> the best part of birding on an island is finding species that can't be found anywhere else. we birders call them endemics.

this place is home to 17 endemic species of birds, and i'm hoping to spot a few of them to add to my life list. the puerto rican parrot is a special bird. with its bright green and blue feathers and red striped brow, it's the pride of all puerto ricans. way back, the island's taíno indians named it iguaca after the squawking sound it makes when it flies. sadly, nature has dealt the iguaca a bit of a rough hand. and between hurricanes, hungry predators, and a lack of environment protection, they were down to just 13 birds in the wild in the early 1970's. now there's a plan to bring them back. amy: a clip from "extraordinary birder," national geographic series. christian cooper just won an emmy for this series. it's amazing. so tell us the countries that you went to for this series. >> well, that's the thing.

because it was covid and because of budget, they kept us domestic for the season. so we went to palm springs, california, new york city, washington, d.c., puerto rico, hawaii -- oh, boo hoo, boo hoo, i had to go to hawaii -- and alabama. and the alabama episode was the most important to me because that was the collision not just of birding, but of family history and civil rights history. and you would be surprised how these things can inform each other. and we explored that a little bit in the episode. i had gone down to alabama a year earlier at the invitation of alabama audubon. and the experience for me was so enlightening, but i wanted to recreate it for the viewers. so the alabama episode is my favorite. amy: tell us more about alabama and how all these worlds intersect. >> sure. well, for example, i walked across for the first time the edmund pettus bridge, which is

where bloody sunday happened. and so i'm walking across and thinking about what happened on this bridge. and meanwhile, there are cliff swallows that are nesting underneath it. and i realized, you know, these cliff swallows were probably here all those years ago and they witnessed. they were there. they were part of that history, to be there when all that happened. so there's that connection. then there's other things, like my father's family. you know, we're all northerners for generations. but you go far enough back in the history of any african americans and our roots are in the south. and my dad's father's side of the family came from alabama, but i had never been. and i didn't want to go because i'm like, "my family left there for a reason." i had never been to the deep south. but the chance to go in the tender arms of alabama audubon made it -- i'm like, "well, if there's ever going to be a chance to go, this is it." so i went. and it was fascinating to see what expectations were violated, what expectations were affirmed -- for example, walking around

in birmingham, and there are all these cafes with rainbow flags in the window. and i'm like, "wait, wait. what?" but, you know, that actually makes sense, because, you know, you go across the country, and in the urban areas, they tend to be pretty progressive and actually very welcoming of queer people. but then you go outside. even if you're in new york, you know, you're here in the city, and it's very welcoming to queer people, but if you go to regions upstate, you know, there are parts where it's redder than red iowa or something like that. so you know, that was a revelation to me. but then other things like the fact that, you know, my family had left alabama and come to the north. why? because there was -- you know, that was part of the great migration when black people left the south for opportunity in the north, economic opportunity, jobs, and to escape oppression. that's exactly what birds do every year. that's why they migrate. they leave the south for the north because there are resources in the north that they exploit to raise their young and

be more successful and pass on a better life to the next generation. that's why black people left the south. and we even use the same word, "migration," for the birds, the "great migration" for black people. so things like that, you know, just all sort of collide and inform each other and change your view of things. nermeen: and then, you know, as you said earlier, for the national geographic series, you weren't able to travel abroad because of covid and so on. but you did -- and you write about it in the book -- you did actually go to several countries on your own, including nepal, tanzania. you said earlier that you had also been to belize. i mean, these are countries that are at the forefront of the climate crisis, which is, of course, also threatening all forms of nature, including birds. so if you could say a little about what you saw in these places -- and this is obviously a limited number. i imagine you've been to many other places to bird -- and the

concerns you have about the climate crisis and the threat that it poses to bird life? >> the best example i can give you is a trip i took in december down to antarctica. i know. it was amazing. it's like visiting a different planet. but we got down there and i was sort of, you know, a special guest on the boat, and so i wanted to be helpful to the other people on the ship and tell them, "all right, we're going to make our landing at this particular spot." and i researched what kind of penguins we were going to see there. and i said to everybody, "all right, well, this is the penguin we're likely to see at this spot." and we get there. i said, "this is a colony of adélie penguins." and we get there and it's almost entirely gentoo penguins. and i'm like, "ugh, i botched that completely." the penguin researcher on the boat said to me, "no, you don't understand. i was here two years ago and that colony was almost entirely adélie penguins." adélie penguins are true

antarctic penguins. they rely on ice for making their livelihood. gentoo penguins are what they call sub-antarctic penguins. and the lack of ice is what lets them spread. so the fact that in two years that colony had converted almost entirely from adélie penguins, the antarctic penguins, to gentoo penguins is a sign of just how quickly climate change is happening, particularly down there because it's changing faster at the poles than anyplace else. so we were able to see in real time ourselves that our climate is changing way faster than most creatures can adapt. and, you know, there will be winners and losers. you know, gentoo penguins, at least for a while, are going to have an advantage. but what's scary is that most species can't adapt to change successfully that's that fast, including us. amy: christian cooper board member of the nyc bird alliance,

writer, lgbtq activist and host of the national geographic series "extraordinary birder with christian cooper." this memoir is just out in paperback "better living through birding: notes from a black man in the natural world." visit democracynow.org to see a longer version of this interview. and that does it for today's