07/09/24 07/09/24 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> 22 years in the air force and during those years, although i did not agree with all of the policies, i thought hopefully i could one day make an impact using my voice because i wanted to be that representation for the posting of people within the

military -- palestinian people within the military. i did not expect it to come out in a, we are the indiscriminate killing of thousands of palestinians including some of my family members. amy: we will speak with a palestinian american who ended a 22 year career in the u.s. air force after an israeli airstrike in gaza killed his aunt. mohammed abu hashem is the first known person to resign from the military or government with a direct connection to israel*'s war i'm gaza. then we will speak with jeremy scahill who spoke about the ongoing ceasefire negotiations. >> from hamas's perspective, they waged a guerrilla insurgency for months against israel that has exposed not only israel's brutality but his

weaknesses. now you have a situation where netanyahu has been unable to free on most any hostages, militarily, inside of gaza. a large number of them have been killed. i think what we are in these negotiations is netanyahu's try to sabotage you need to because his political future is linked good continuation of this war and he is hoping that donald trump once he was presidential election. amy: jeremy scahill's latest exposé appears that drop site, an investigative news outlet jeremy launched with ryan grim. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in the gaza strip, tens of thousands of palestinians have been forced from homes and makeshift shelters after israel's military issued a new mass expulsion order covering several areas of gaza city. on monday, thousands of patients

and medical workers were seen evacuating the al-ahli arab hospital and the patient's friends benevolent society hospital. the closures drew condemnation from the united nations and the episcopal church, which operates the hospital. the palestine red crescent society says some 90% of gazans -- about 2 million people -- have been internally displaced by israel's war, many of them multiple times. meanwhile, israeli attacks across gaza have killed at least people over the past 24 50 hours. among the dead are five children who were reportedly killed by an israeli drone as they were playing in the bureij refugee cap in central gaza. meanwhile, hundreds of trucks loaded with food and other humanitarian supplies remain stranded on the egyptian side of the gaza border, even as 2.3 million gazans go hungry. some truck drivers in the sinai

peninsula say they had to discard entire truckloads of food that spoiled in the sweltering summer heat. >> before the shipment, we came and stood idle for more than 50 days. eventually, the load of food had to be returned after it spoiled. we had to turn around and offloaded. we loaded another batch and here we are standing idle again. only god knows if this cargo will make it into cause a -- gaza before it, too, expires. amy: meanwhile, israeli media are reporting prime minister -- criticism came after israeli media reportedly netanyahu caught senior israeli officials off guard over the weekend when he announced a list of so-called nonnegotiable's for ceasefire talks. one unnamed official told "the times of israel" -- "negotiations have to be

conducted behind closed doors -- not in press releases, and definitely not the moment before the start of a meeting to determine the next stage of talks." a united nations human rights monitor says monday's deadly strike on a children's hospital in ukraine's capital was likely caused by a direct hit from russian missiles rather than damage from a missile your by ukraine. the attack destroyed two floors of the hospital, killing at least two people and injuring 16 others while damaging oncology in intensive care units at the children's hospital. on monday, the ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy said he expected a forceful response from his allies. he spoke from warsaw after meeting with the polish prime minister donald tusk. >> first of all, i expect very concrete answers and steps from our partners of the nato summit. we will have a meeting strengthening ukraine's air defense, civilian infrastructure, and energy grid.

i expect concrete steps. amy: president biden is welcoming more than three dozen world leaders to washington, d.c., including president zelenskyy, this evening as the annual nato summit gets underway, marking the 75th anniversary of the nuclear-armed military alliance. ahead of the talks, nato's outgoing secretary-general jens stoltenberg said allies were finalizing language stating that ukraine is on an irreversible path to nato membership. the nato summit gets underway after russian vladimir putin welcomed union president render modi to moscow for formal talks. this comes as more than 700 members of the union of concerned scientists signed an open letter to president biden urging cancellation of the air force's sentinel weapon system, a new generation of intercontinental ballistic missiles that's expected to cost more than $130 billion. in a statement, the union said, "these weapons -- stored in

silos across the plains states -- place a target on communities and increase the risk of nuclear war while offering no meaningful security benefits." in texas, at least six people were killed and millions were left without electricity monday after hurricane beryl made landfall south of galveston with sustained winds of 80 miles per hour. the category 1 storm brought a month's worth of rain to parts of the houston metro area in less than six hours. julian people are without power with the heat index forecast of 105 degrees fahrenheit. this month, beryl became the earliest-ever major hurricane in the atlantic -- at one point, strengthening to a category 5 storm as it tore through the caribbean, killing at least 11 people. this year is on track to become the hottest in human history as scientists confirmed june set another global heat record, putting the planet on a 13-month record breaking streak. here in the u.s., the extreme temperatures are set to continue this week, especially across

southern and western states. in phoenix, arizona, heat-related deaths have nearly doubled since the same period last year, with 175 deaths likely due to heat recorded so far. elsewhere, heavy monsoon rains and flash floods in nepal have been linked to at least 47 deaths. in indonesia, torrential downpours triggered a deadly landslide at an illegal gold mining site on sulawesi island. authorities say at least people 23 have been killed, with dozens of others missing. and california, advocates are demanding justice for a woman who died while incarcerated at a prison in chowchilla as a blistering heatwave swept across the region. the woman died over the weekend, two days after being hospitalized. her cause of death is still undetermined but the group california coalition for women prisoners blamed prison neglect and likely heat exhaustion. they said the woman "became incoherent" and "dropped to the ground" while she took a shower to try to cool off. the group has received several

other reports of unbearable heat inside the central california women's facility with people suffering "widespread headaches, vomiting and other dangerous physical symptoms." here in new york, police arrested 46 elder climate campaigners monday as they staged a nonviolent civil disobedience protest near citigroup's manhattan headquarters. among those arrested was bill mckibben, founder of the climate justice group 350.org. organizers with the summer of heat activist network are demanding citi end its investments in fossil fuel expansion. a recent report found citibank provided more than $200 billion in financing for new fossil fuel projects since the paris climate agreement was signed in 2015. president biden on monday sent a letter to congressional democrats doubling down on his intention to remain their presidential candidate and calling for an end to questions about whether he should stay in the race.

biden wrote, "we have one job. and that is to beat donald trump." despite biden's defiance, the feverish debate appears far from over. on monday, congressmember adam smith, the ranking democrat on the armed services committee, joined calls for biden to end his campaign. smith spoke on cnn. >> i think it has become clear he is not the best person to care the democratic message. a lot of democrats are saying, let's move on, stop talking about it. we are not the ones bringing it up. we are not the ones who said "anytime, anyplace." our constituents are bringing it up. the country is bringing it up. the white house as a campaign strategy of "be quiet and fall in line and let's ignore it." simply isn't working right now. amy: on the progressive flank of the democratic party, alexandria ocasio-cortez and ilhan omar have publicly backed biden to stay in the race. meanwhile, visitor logs show a

neurologist, renowned parkinson's disease expert, visited the white house eight times between last july and march of this year. the white house declined to give details but said the doctor examined president biden three times as part of his annual physicals. delegates from the republican convention adopted donald trump's proposed platform monday after speaking to the presumptive nominee. the platform retreats from the republican campaign to enshrine a federal ban on abortions, leaving that to individual states. the platform also reinforces anti-trans policies, plans for mass deportations, pledges additional support to israel, and proposes shutting down the education department. sudanese political rivals traveled to cairo, egypt, for talks over the weekend but the meetings ended without any hopes of an end to the bloodshed which has devastated sudan since april of last year. the sudanese military and paramilitary rapid support forces remain locked in a battle for territory and power which has killed tens of thousands and displaced some 10 million people in what the u.n. say is the world's worst displacement crisis.

the southeastern state of sennar, which many people had fled to seek safety, has been under attack from the rsf since june, creating a new wave of displacement. some 25 people drowned in the nile river last week while attempting to escape the fighting in sennar. fighting also continues in el-fasher, the last stronghold of the sudanese army in darfur. the u.n. warns 14 areas are at risk of famine while three-quarters-of-a-million people are now facing catastrophic levels of extreme hunger. and brazil has ratified a free trade agreement with the palestinian authority as occupied territories are hit with a worsening economic crisis due to israeli violence and restrictive policies. israel has also blocked all commercial exports from gaza since last september. the trade agreement was formally adopted during meetings between of the mercosur trade bloc in paraguay over the weekend, where brazilian president luiz inácio lula da silva spoke. >> we are proud to be the first

country to ratify the free trade agreement with palestine, but i cannot help regret this occurs in the context in which the pella tempe -- palestinian people are suffering in an irrational war. amy: it's unclear whether other mercosur nations, which includes argentina, will follow suit. far-right argentine president javier milei, an ally of israel, was notably absent from the talks as he attended a rally in support of former far-right brazilian president jair bolsonaro in brazil. bolsonaro has just been indicted on charges of money laundering and criminal association in connection with undeclared diamonds from saudi arabia. meanwhile, lula has reinstated a special commission to investigate crimes committed during brazil's military dictatorship. the commission, created in 1995 to probe disappearances and other human rights abuses committed by the military regime between 1964-1985, had been dismantled by bolsonaro, a former army captain who served during the dictatorship.

and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. when we come back, we speech a palestinian american u.s. airmen who resigned from the air force after an israeli airstrike killed his aunt in gaza. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the official death toll from israel's war on gaza has topped 38,200. but a new report in the british medical journal the lancet estimates the actual death toll could be 186,000 or even higher. that's roughly 8% of gaza's population. the report looks at how war leads to indirect deaths due to shortages of medical care, food, shelter, and water. as israel's war enters its 10th month, we are joined by a palestinian-american who ended a 22-year career in the u.s. air

force after an israel airstrike in gaza killed his aunt saida saleh abu hashem. mohammed abu hashem served as a first sergeant in the 316th civil engineer squadron of the u.s. air force. he is the first to resign with a direct connection to the death toll. he recently co-signed a letter with 11 other former u.s. officials who resigned over the biden administration's policy towards gaza, palestine, and israel. the officials wrote in the letter -- "this failed policy has not achieved its stated objectives -- it has not made israelis any safer, it has emboldened extremists while it has been devastating for the palestinian people, ensuring a vicious cycle of poverty and hopelessness." mohammed abu hashem joins us now from akron, ohio. thank you so much for being with us.

condolences on the death of your aunt. can you talk about why you resigned and when you did? >> thank you, amy. thank you for the opportunity. i served 22 years in the air force. i hoped i could lead with my voice one day because we no representation matters. i never expected it to be at a time where we have seen the indiscriminate killing of what now with new reports as you stated a proximally 180 6000 palestinians, could my family members. it was clear to me i needed to step away and i made my decision on october 21 after trying my best to give evidence to the intelligence community. when i never received anything back, i knew then, along with other members of the state department, resign -- i knew no matter how high of a rank i would have reached, no one was going to listen. this administration was not going to change their mind. amy: why did you join the

military? >> i joined the military in early 2002, january 2 thousand two, right after 9/11 becse felt as an 18-year-old when i watched the attack of 9/11, i was worried and concerned about the family i had here, just like most people were concerned about what further escalation this was going to cause and i was concerned. not only my family, but there friends and family members. amy: can you talk about your aunt and what happened to her in gaza? >> absolutely. i've brought the evidence of what happened to one of my direct leads that has oversight on the personnel in the defense agency. the building -- the apartment complex i live in is a four resident complex. the majority of the people that lived there are shop owners, teachers, regular everyday

people. every single person that made it out told me directly there was nobody out of the ordinary in the building. israel claimed it was a hamas operational structure. i rebutted that and ask how is it a hamas structure? at the very least, why did they wait for all of the residents to enter before striking? even my cousin told me -- the majority of the residents, including the 12 children killed on that day, that if the building first, proximally 90 minutes. my uncle informed me directly as soon as they made it into the building and into their living room, they found themselves underneath the rubble. amy: tell us exactly what you understand happened to your aunt, in particular, and who she was. >> my aunt was just a housewife. she did not work.

my uncle was the one that provided for the family. she has three kids. she was a regular everyday household family member. she was struck in the living room. some of the residents were telling me they could still hear her voice when they were pulling people under the rubble. we were told there was the possibility she was still alive under the rubble but could not get to her in time. amy: that happened in october. can you talk about resigning but then not making that public until recently, months later? what led you to that decision, mohammed? >> in the beginning, i was going through my own struggles. not only as an american member watching what is happening and what is unfolding but as a palestinian i had direct ties. i try to reach out to members of the media but no it in the beginning -- the totality of what was happening was not what

it is today. i was not receiving the same kind of response. it wasn't until i started reaching out to the other state department members and making those connections with people that i finally started to get my story to the right people. it wasn't until june when i was officially completely out of the military that i was able to get my story out on "the washington post." amy: mohammed abu hashem, you made it to the rank of sergeant. you met another airman. can you talk about meeting aaron bushnell and then what he was subsequently do? when and where you met him? >> absolutely. it was crazy to me how our meeting was and the fact i decided to move away from washington, d.c. come after everything that happened. i moved to akron, ohio in february and took a position in a company that does

home-improvement. within the first week of working in this company, i ran into -- i was introduced to aaron as another veteran who is currently ready to leave the service. we had a brief conversation, 30 second conversation of what his expense was like. it wasn't until four days later, five days later when i came back into work i realized on the news articles that that was the same individual that i was talking to. it really took me back. it took me a week to analyze and really think about the possibility i could have had in the conversation with aaron to let him know why i left the service. my job was to take care of the welfare and the morale of the individuals that i served over. and it was just -- it dawned on me then that i probably could have done more if we went into a

deeper conversation. unfortunately, that is when i heard about it the following weekend or on monday when i came into work, what happened. amy: talk about how you heard, what you understood he did. >> initially, i saw the reports online. i did not make the connection immediately because when i was introduced to him, we never really introduced each other by name. just veteran to veteran, we had a conversation. it wasn't until the company announced that we lost a member that i started to make that connection. and it wasn't until some of the people i work with came up to me and told me that that is when i realized who aaron bushnell was post amy: that man who self immolated, set himself on fire, was aaron. mohammed abu hashem, you have said that you have information

that u.s. intelligence gave israel information about what was going to happen, what happened october 7, before then. can you talk about what you understand? >> so i spoke to members of the intelligence community that told me that the intelligence provided to israel on october fit and six was more than sufficient for them to be able to stop hamas. regarding what kind of information was provided, whether it was on the movements happening around the gaza strip or even if you refer to some of the israel news articles, their outposts near gaza, they were informing their leadership that some type of movement of what was happening, consistent with everyday normal activity. what and how israel used that intelligence to up there potential levels or move to an alert status, that is unknown.

unfortunate, they delay that investigation so they could continue their assault on innocent women and children. amy: it might surprise some to hear the u.s. gave actionable intelligence to israel before hamas's october 7 attack. if you could elaborate as people listen, maybe some of them, stunned. >> we continuously -- the gaza strip is one of the most have early surveilled locations -- heavily surveilled locations in the globe. reconnaissance in the region as well. it is not far from realistic to say we had evidence or that it was provided to the israeli government or the israeli government shared intelligence with the united states that shows there was some sort of threat level that should have been alerting all the military forces in the area of some type of imminent attack that was going to happen. amy: finally, as you have become

publicly known as a person who resigned, first person with a direct connection to israel's assault on gaza right now, have people approached you? and talk about this letter you signed with 11 others, officials, talking about their reasons for resigning connected to u.s. support for israel. >> even before i signed the letter myself, i had people reach out to me asking me how they would deal -- how they should move forward with the situation. there's a saying in the military where we say you follow all orders unless there an ethical, immoral. i found they were violated in my morals and ethics. obviously, the legal aspect would be the american laws that were violated as well. every time i spoke to these

members, i told them it is up to them to find whether this violates her own reality and ethics and they needed to make that decision for themselves. we understood the 12 members -- the american people deserve to have a government that falls -- follows ethically and moral standards. there aren't many conflict where everything is broadcasted live to the world. we needed to step up to demand change. i hope it would raise awareness with all our colleagues to use their voice if they stay the state department's or to make a choice on whether they need to leave come if this follows their own ethics or morals in order for them to make a decision whether they want to stay or resign over this conflict. amy: mohammed abu hashem, thank you for being with us, former first sergeant in the u.s. air force. he resigned from his 22-your

career in the air force over u.s. support for israel in its war on gaza. mohammed is palestinian-american. his aunt was killed in an israeli attack on gaza on october 10. he's the first to resign with a direct connection to gus's massive civilian death toll. when we come back, we'll speak with investigative journalist jeremy scahill. he is a new report out based on interviews with senior hamas officials about ongoing ceasefire negotiations and the group's broader goals. he cofounded the intercept and now he is cofounded a new news site. it is called drop site. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we continue to look at israel's war on gaza, we turn now to look at the state of negotiations for a possible ceasefire and hostage deal.

on monday, cia director bill burns and president biden's top middle east adviser brett mcgurk met with israeli and egyptian officials in cairo. burns is headed next to qatar. this comes as hamas's political leadership has accused israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu of jeopardizing talks by intensifying its war on gaza. in a statement released on monday, hamas said -- "netanyahu is placing more obstacles to the negotiations, escalating his aggression and crimes against our people, and increasing his attempts to forcibly displace them to hinder all efforts to reach an agreement." hamas's comment comes as multiple news outlets report hamas has dropped its demand that israel first agree to a permanent ceasefire before any agreement is signed. we are joined now by the prize-winning investigative

journalist jeremy scahill. he has a new article today titled "on the record with hamas" that examines hamas's motivations to launch the october 7 attacks in israel as well as hamas's stance on the negotiations. the article is based on interviews with a number of senior hamas officials and other sources. as well as an israeli negotiator. jeremy's article appears on drop site news, a investigative news site he has just launched with ryan grim. on monday, jeremy and ryan announced they were leaving the intercept, which jeremy co-founded 11 years ago. jeremy scahill joins us now from germany. welcome back to democracy now! why don't we start off with your article and talk about what is happening now with what looks like a new intensity with the negotiations that are taking place from egypt to qatar. >> amy, i have spent the past

couple of months talking with officials from hamas, some in background and some on the record. i returned from a reporting trip to the region and i will be doing more reporting in the coming days on this. i think it is important to emphasize october 7 did not happen in a vacuum. often when american officials talk about what hamas refers to as operational oxo flood come it is characterized hamas shattered peace. for 76 years, there's been no troop ease for the palestinian people -- true piece for the palestinian people. they have lived in an open-air prison where they have been subjected to calorie restricted diet, to sanctions, blockade, regular airstrikes by the israeli military, a tactic that israel calls mowing the lawn. and prior to october 7, you had a number of factors at play. the primary motivation hamas

members told me to try to shatter the status quo on gaza. they felt the situation was becoming untenable. israel's strategy of collective punishment was aimed at trying to force local people in gaza to rise up against hamas. indeed, there were indications in public opinion polling that people were growing increasingly frustrated with hamas, which is not just an armed resistance movement, but also with governing authority. it was beyond just the horrifying conditions in gaza and a sense of hopelessness. under president trump come the u.s. issued diplomatic agreements the referred to as the abraham accords. essentially, what that amounted to was the united states trying to broker a bilateral agreement between arab and muslim nations and israel stop for 20 years, the status quo on any agreements with arab nations had to include a resolution of the palestinian question. the question of the palestinian

state and what trump and company did was to embrace netanyahu's i did the palestinians should not be given a veto over relationship with other air of nations. when you combine that with the expansion of the annexation, with the ongoing tensions at the al-aqsa mosque and you look at the horrifying conditions in gaza, hamas's perspective was we need to shatter all of this. we don't believe the negotiation with israel is going to be effective. they spoke about the revolutionary resistance movements throughout history. they gave a full throated defense, even with the consequence that we have seen. minimum of 40,000 palestinians killed but likely much higher than that. amy: i want to turn to a clip, i think it was like eight days before the october 7 attacks last year. this is a clip of national security advisor jake sullivan speaking. >> when we came into office, you

had the war in yemen raging is the world's largest humanitarian catastrophe. you had -- a few months before we came in, the see dead stormed, secretary pompeo going out and talking about pulling the entire american mission out of iraq. you had iranian groups in both syria andiraq firing missiles at u.s. forces. that is what we all walked into. what was that is we want to depressurized, de-escalate, and ultimately integrate the middle east region. the war in yemen is in its 19 month truce for now. the iranian attacks against u.s. forces have stopped. i emphasize for now because all of that can change. the middle east region is quieter today than it has been in two decades. amy: that is national security

advisor jake sullivan speaking at the atlantic magazine festival. september 2023. jeremy scahill, your response? and speaking with hamas officials, talk about their response. >> let's remember that in may 2021, israel engaged in an 11 day heavy bombing campaign against gaza. at the heart of that was the attempt to evict people from the jerusalem -- occupied east jerusalem of shaikh jarrah as well as clashes at the al-aqsa mosque the netanyahu government was effectively allowing israeli settlers and others to come in and abuse the palestinians, defile the holy site. hamas and jihad launched a series of rockets into israeli territory. about a dozen israeli citizens were killed. netanyahu responded and several

palestinians were killed. joe biden was early in his presidency, fully endorsed that but did eventually say, ok, the runway is up. he called netanyahu and two days later netanyahu engages in a brokered ceasefire with egypt. in the two years between those airstrikes in 2021 and the launch of al-aqsa flood on october 7, hamas was watching the biden administration. they watched how biden picked up the mantle from trump on the abraham accords and started moving forward and also the fact it did seem -- and i think this goes beyond the walls of gaza and into broader hosting and community and historic palestine but also the world -- that the united states and others were presiding over a definitive decay of the aspiration for a palestinian state. from their perspective, this was in the epic history of israel- palestine, the opening salvo in what they hoped would be the

definitive battle that would called a question on the existence of the data palestine. if we could fast forward to what you're talking about earlier with the negotiation, i spoke to members of hamas's delegation that right at this moment are engaged in these negotiations. they said they have noticed over recent weeks that the u.s. negotiators appear to be growing increasingly frustrated with israel. of course there is is fiction about how biden so frustrated with benjamin netanyahu. that is not what they're referring to. they're talking about on a tactical level, the u.s. negotiators william burns and others seem to be fed up and wanting to make a deal. that is why i think it became -- came as a shock to people in over the weekend netanyahu leaked to the media his four not negotiable's and among them he reserves the right to continue pummeling gaza until he achieves total victory. from hamas's perspective, they have their redlines. while the fact remains an

enormous number of palestinians have been slaughtered with u.s. weapons in this genocidal war, the armed groups, islamic jihad and hamas, have waged a war of attrition against the israeli occupation forces. they have killed an large number of israeli troops. they have proven very effective at delivering serious blows to the israeli occupation forces. hamas is keenly aware of the fact netanyahu is under immense pressure inside of israel because of the issue of the hostages. his insistence they're going to liberate israelis held in gaza by military forces has proven doubly for the hostages themselves. -- deadly for the hostages themselves. the utter hubris of netanyahu where he believes it is justifiable to link his personal, political fate to the release of israelis being held. i think that is the perspective

in israel. from hamas's perspective, i don't think they are willing to take a permanent cease fire off the table. i've been told by sources they're willing to engage in what they call it an criminal series of agreements. one of the prime demands to the genocidal war hamas is putting forward as they want more prisoners release. there are thousands of palestinians being held in israeli prisons and jails and administrative detention. they also want prisoners that israel calls the impossible's, people who are armed resistance figures, some of whom have been convicted of murdering israelis -- israel says they will not release palestinians with jewish blood on their hands. hamas is insisting the also good to have their combatants return if israel once it soldiers back. there are huge issues here. the final thing i will say is, remember, the gaza-based head of

hamas who is widely believed one of the three main organizers of al-aqsa flood on october 7, himself spent 23 years prison. more than 1000 palestinians were freed from israeli jails in return for one israeli soldier. hamas officials all emphasize to me one of the primary goals of their operations on october 7 was to take as many soldiers they could back to gaza because they believed that was the only way to free high valued prisoners, including marwan barghouti, who is not a member of hamas but he is widely viewed as the top palestinian who could unify the palestinian cause and move forward in the effort to achieve an independent unified palestinian state. amy: jeremy scahill, the israeli newspaper haaretz has revealed new details about how israeli

military officials ordered repeated attacks inside israel on october 7 in an effort to prevent hamas from taking hostages into gaza. it remains unknown how many israelis killed on that day were actually killed by israeli forces and what is known as the hannibal directive. when military sows -- source said -- can you elaborate on this? >> one thing hamas officials have emphasized -- you can take this with a grain of salt. they're saying they did not go into israel with the intent to engage in the mass killing of civilians. they have their own definition of civilian that doesn't include male settlers so you have to kind of go down a rabbit hole to fully understand what they're

saying. what i think is relevant is hamas is saying, look, a lot of people got killed in crossfire when we were fighting. this has been covered extensively in the israeli media. there was a case where about a dozen civilians were killed in a shelling by israeli tanks of a house where there were palestinian gunmen in. one of the survivors has been very outspoken. also independent news outlets that have covered this crisis for a long time like electronic intifada, they said from the beginning it appeared at least some form of a hannibal doctrine-style operation was unleashed. they were ridiculed for it and people were dismissing it. and now it seems clear -- we don't know the extent to which this was implemented -- that a fair number of israelis were killed by their own forces either in so-called friendly fire incidents or as haaretz is

indicating deliberately to prevent hostages from being taken back to gaza. amy: can you talk about what happened to the so-called spotters? these were women, israeli soldiers and their warnings to their high reps and what happened before october 7? a number of them, killed. some taken hostage. cooks your previous guess was alluding to some of this as well. we are learning, and i think we only understand a fraction of the intelligence warnings that were delivered, but we have known for months there were primarily female intelligence analysts that were basically sound and the alarms to the chain of command that appeared as though hamas and other organizations were engaged in a specific sort of training exercise that looked like it was mimicking the kind of assaults we ultimately saw unfold on october 7. there is some indication that the u.s. may have also provided

intelligence. when you look at this krom, this trail of crumbs, it is difficult to rule out that somewhere at some point within the israeli security apparatus that someone was aware of this and decided they did not want to take it seriously. i am not engaged in conspiracy theorizing about any of this, but there's a huge scandal i think that is going to continue to unfold in israel. many israelis are asking that question. look, israel is a nuclear power, funded and backed by the united states of america. it is promoted in image around the world that it can reach its enemies wherever they are and assassinate them and take them out. that all crumbled october 7. we have guys making sniper rifles and in equip me you can get on amazon and they're taking out surveillance towers with their low inequality drones and using paraglider's to go in, the idea a modern military that is

bankrolled, armed, and funded by the united states was not able to repel that force raises a lot of questions that i think israel i society is going to be grappling with for quite some time. amy: in your piece, you quote renowned columbia university professor now retired, author of the 100 years war on palestine, widely viewed as the leading u.s. historian of palestine. he talked about the massive civilian death toll in gaza. he said you -- "these deaths should be on the conscience of the israeli leaders who decided to kill all these people. but they also to some extent should be on the consciences of the people who organized the october 7 operation. they should have known, and had to have known that israel would inflict devastating revenge not just on them but mainly on the civilian population. do you credit them for this? the end result may be the permanent occupation, immiseration, and perhaps even expulsion of the population of gaza, in which case i don't think anybody would want to credit whoever organized this

operation." your response, jeremy? >> one of the things i was trying to do in this reporting was to explore the breath of perspective on this question. on the one hand, i don't think anybody who has a reasonable grasp of the history would deny the palestinian people have a right to resist and that israel and the international community have sent a message to palestinians. that even nonviolent resistance is going to be met with force. it happened in 2018, 2019 where israeli staffers had a competition to see how many unarmed protesters they could shoot in the knee. i don't think there should be any reasonable debate about whether or not the palestinians have a right to resist. this is a tactical question, should hamas have been able to predict a response from israel was going to be far beyond any of the other recent bombing campaigns? i heard different answers from

people within hamas. some said, look, we knew it was going to be a heavier response, we knew a lot of people were going to die. this is the nature of how israel responsds. we did not imagine it would be more than what happened in 2014 or 2021. there were other officials who said no one within hamas predicted it was going to be this scale of a genocidal war. there isn't necessarily a party line on this. i got the since this is a question also hamas itself is debating because they're going to be people who confront them with these questions within gaza itself. there is an interesting dynamic that has played out where you see hamas's popularity and also islamic jihad, the idea of armed resistance against israel, polls indicate beyond gaza and other parts of palestine and diaspora that support for armed insurgency and attacks against

israel has gone up. hamas's political standing has gone up in both the west bank and in gaza. but whether that will translate into political power is a different issue. a famous palestinian novelist and activist who has been twice to gaza and has been on democracy now! also was talking about this and said, we talked to people on the ground in gaza. certainly, some are saying critical things about hamas who everyone knows was bombing them. in a way, this discussion becomes a trap of sorts because the fact is united states has enthusiastically backed and armed and bankrolled genocide for nine straight months, joe biden -- his career has been marked by unapologetic defense of israel at its most extreme. i think what is clear right now is that this is the moment when the world needs to address a definitive way the demands by

palestinians for decades to have an independent, unified palestinian state. as the israeli negotiator told me, this has to be the last war. israel is not going to survive. from his perspective, he wants this to be the end of it. there questions about biden pushing the notion of a two state solution. i have heard different things from hamas. hamas does not want a two state solution. they want a one state solution, unified palestine. but their official position is that if it is the democratic will of the palestinian people, they will accept a two state arrangement along the 1967 borderlines. but they also point out, tell me where the borders of the current state of israel even are. because of all of the illegal annexation, expansion, land grants, expulsion of palestinians from the land of the whole world recognizes as palestinian territory -- this is not just rhetoric from hamas,

these are basic facts they are relaying. amy: you mentioned gershom baskin, one of the negotiators who helped negotiate the release of the israeli soldier gilad should lead for 1000 palestinians who were in present. if you could talk about his perspective on this. he has been behind the scene since october 7 negotiating around hostage issues. then i would like you to talk about who exactly yahya sinwar is. >> gershon baskin is thatn israeli peace activist that hamas has been willing to deal with. he did play a role in the massive exchange of palestinians who were imprisoned for gilad shalit. this is how yahya sinwar won his freedom. on day four after october 7, said he was in touch with hamas go shooters.

what he said, which have mass have been telling me but gershon baskin confirmed it, many civilians who were taken inside of israel were not in fact taken by hamas and palestinian islamic jihad but by other people who came in and second and third waves from gaza. these are people that have been imprisoned what they view as concentration camp for their entire lives for multigenerational reality has been living in this prison. so people poor in and they're taking hostages fact to gaza, including children and the elderly. sick people. my understanding is that hamas was not prepared for this and did not imagine that so many people were going to be taken back. so on day four, october 11, gershon baskin and others are talking to hamas and hamas is that we want to hand these people back to immediately and they were asking for very little in return. there were also having to run around and tracked down all of these people.

baskin tried to negotiate that. the israelis said no. the head of gaza sinwar said he wanted to end the war by making a conference of deal for every single person that have been taken back as prisoner or captive or hostage in return for emptying the prisons of palestinians. the israeli government rejected it. israel will have its own perspective on that. and say, this isn't what hamas really means or are not sincere. this is the factual timeline based on hamas's timeline confirmed by gershon baskin. on the issue of sinwar, this is a guy who soon after hamas was formed in 1987 and he was an original member of hamas, which was an outgrowth of the muslim brotherhood movement, sinwar was arrested on allegations that he was essentially an internal hitman for hamas, murdering collaborators with the israelis.

israel also was accusing him of plotting to murder israeli soldiers but they snatched him, put him on trial, and he was sentenced to multiple life sentences in prison for an allegation that he emerged four palestinians that had collaborated with israel. he spent nearly 23 years in prison. while in prison, became fluent in hebrew and wrote a number of books inside prison putting a novel that was semi-autobiographical. also he translated by hand the memoirs of some heads of these really intelligence agency shin bet from hebrew into arabic. he spent two decades studying the history of the mossad, the history of shin bet. then he is released back into gaza in 2011 and eventually consolidates his authority. he has militantly insisted for years since he won his freedom that he views it as a moral issue to release the rest of the palestinian prisoners.

that is something he has fsis as a central goal of operation naloxone flood. he himself was one of those prisoners and was in the negotiating committees and multiple rounds of negotiations from prison with the israeli's. he understands very well the mentality of his adversaries in this war. i would say they understand him very well also because the intelligence operative spent a lot of time debriefing yahya sinwar are trying to play -- or try to play metal chess with him during those 23 years in prison. amy: this is yahya sinwar back in 2021 speaking to vice news, comparing the palestinian struggle to the police murder of george floyd. this was 2021. this was before october 7. >> i want to take this opportunity to remember the racist murder of george floyd. george floyd was killed as a

result of racist ideology held by some people. the same type of flood that killed racism that killed george floyd is being used but the burning of our children. against the gaza strip. in a code that is yahya sinwar speaking back in 2021 to vice news. your final comment on this, jeremy? and then we want to talk about, as we talked about news organizations, your new news organization drop site. drop site news. you have just left the intercept after cofounding it 11 years ago. >> i think what is important to emphasize here is sinwar another hamas officials are people that are very fluent in u.n.

resolutions and international law and know how to make argument in defense of what they say is revolutionary violence. many of the hamas i spoke to our veterinarians or doctors, deeply educated people. sinwar is clever. he is trying to appeal to an american population in the same sense some of the announced objectives of the october 7 attacks were probably not the most important or central objectives to hamas but they want to emphasize those as a message to the broader post any population in the world or to air operations to hold their own governments accountable come in the eyes of hamas, doing nothing for the palestinian people. regarding drop site news, it is not any secret that the world we live in right now has a lot of dark things going on. we urgently need shows like democracy now!, institutions of investigative journalism. what ryan and i are trying to do is build a sustainable, reader

sustained news organization that will take big swings at powerful people come that will work with networks of independent journalists on the ground and countries around the world and inside the united states, and to operate with no fear or favor of those in power whether they are democrats or republicans. our pledge is to come as i know yours is, amy, and has been for a long time as a journalist, to be accountable to the readers, viewers, listeners. i want to say on a personal level, i said this in my introductory, i am looking forward to returning to why i got into journalism. democracy now! gave me that opportunity. i will never forget when you let me that my way into cutting real to reel tape on the old-fashioned analog reel. you talk to me about the temerity to ask tough questions and it never back down. amy: finally, why the name drop site? >> drop site is a term of espionage where it is a place

where spies can leave a secret for one another. it is also a place where you can drop supplies behind enemy lines and a place to drop documents. we are looking for to working with whistleblowers.