so before october 7th to after october 7th, jewish communal security will never be the same. >> reporter: the pain and fear conveyed by jews exploring gun ownership compounded by what is called interracial trauma. >> what we know about the jewish community having experienced persecution for so many generations is that we say never again, but we can sense when things are starting to shift. need to take actionable steps to do things in order to feel grounded, safe, and in control. >> reporter: for many of these mothers, there are still reservations. >> scary. [ gunshot ] >> scary. >> reporter: she says ultimately she probably can't wield a weapon, but for many others they say it's a crossroads they've been approaching for years. >> sam brock reporting. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now.

hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the trump davidians, that is how trump ally steve bannon sums up a movement that has swallowed whole one of our nation's two major political parties. a movement led by an ex-president currently facing 91 felony counts and on a third run for the white house on a platform of damaging democracy. that quote is from jonathan carl's brand-new book "tired of winning: donald trump and the end of the grand old party." it reveals this dramatic collision of efforts to hold the ex-president accountable for his alleged crimes and misdeeds and a candidate who has no hesstation stoking the fires of right-wing extremism and sees winning the presidency as the only way out of his legal troubles. in an essay in "the atlantic" that is adapted from his book, john karl writes this about the decision by the trump campaign to hold its very first rally in

waco, texas. the site of a standoff between far-right extremists and the fbi that ended in dozens of deaths. quote, shortly after the rally was announced, i asked steve bannon who had served as the ceo of trump's 2016 campaign and had once again emerged as one of trump's most important advisers why the former president would go to waco for his big campaign reboot. he wasn't coy. quote, we're the trump vidians, he told me with a laugh. mr. trump's comments at that speech, john karl writes this, quote, this was not a campaign speech in any traditional sense. trump echoedhe themes of paranoia and foreboding that grew out of the waco massacre. quote, as far as the eye can see, the abuses of power that we're curntly witnessing at all levels of government will go down as the most shameful, corrupt, and depraved chapters in all of american history, trump said. the essential message of the

trump candidacy was now geared around fending off the criminal cases brought by manhattan d.a. alvin bragg, special counsel jack smith, and fton county d.a. fani willis. once agai john karl writing in "the atlantic," quote, but they weren't coming after trump's law-abiding supporters, they were coming after trump. earlier the presidential candidate bill clinton told voters that he felt their in. trump is now doing the reverse -- trying to persuade his supporters to feel his pain as if it were their own. it is all part of a, quote, campaign avengeens and martyrdom, he wrote, quiet, he will continue to talk about what is at stake in the election in apocalyptic terms, the fine battle. knowing how high the stakes are. he can win and take the white house or lose and go to prison. donald trump's run for the presidency built around an assault on the rule of law in these united states is where we begin today with some of our

favorite reporters and friends. the author of that great excerpt we read from that book, john karl, with us, chief washington correspondent for abc news and a bestselling author. "tired of winning: donald trump and the end of the grand old party" is out this month. we're joined by the former lead investigator for the january 6th committee tim hafey. i can't get past the trump davidians, john karl. say more. >> first of all, it just blew me away to hear it. i immediately when i saw that that first rally -- this wasn't any rally, this was the kickoff rally. this was the beginning of 2024 presidential campaign, the first rally of that campaign, and to go to waco, he didn't go to a badground state, he didn't go to issues what, didn't go to -- iowa, didn't go to new hampshire, didn't go to south carolina, he didn't go to any place that made sense in terms of the political calendar or the political map, he went to texas. and he didn't go anywhere in

texas, he went to waco. it was almost exactly 30 years after the branch davidian disaster. i had actually written a book in -- 1,000 years ago it seems like, but not long after that called "the right to bear arms: the rise of america's militias." and the cover of that book had a photo of the inferno in waco. i wrote about how that disastrous federal raid had inspired that armed militia, right-wing militia movement. so to hear it again and to see the campaign themes almost exactly as they were back in the 1990s when timothy mcveigh used the waco massacre which was clearly a total screw-up for the federal government, to use that as a rallying cry to carry out the single deadliest domestic attack -- terrorist attack in

american history in oklahoma city. so to hear an adviser, a very important adviser to the leading republican presidential candidate invoke the waco massacre as a rallying cry now for a presidential campaign, to me was just -- i mean, i want to say frightening. i don't know what -- you know, it was -- but it so clearly summarized the message as you read what trump was saying or listen to what trump was saying at that speech. >> and i feel like in the moment too many of us, not you, but too many of us, i'll say me, get stuck in the old frame of trump so ignorant of our own country's history, maybe it's a coincidence. and the coverage wasn't as sharp and probing as what your book reveals. and obviously writing a book is a different exercise, and there was a lot of analysis of the

place. but to have steve bannonage that in his mind the movement is the trump davidians feels new. >> yeah. and look, the truth is that trump had that rally, the rally itself got coverage, but we -- one of the key things about that rally, you don't even need steve bannon to make it crystal clear for you, the rally started with trump on stage silently listening as the national anthem was played, a recording done by the so-called j6 choir. some of the prisoners who were awaiting sentence in a d.c. jail for their role in the january 6th attack who had had sung over the -- over the phones at the --

at that d.c. prison the national anthem. while they played that out, literally on the screen surrounding the stage you saw scenes from the january 6th attack on the capitol play out. this was the kickoff rally for a presidential campaign. but again, it's kind of covered, here we have trump's doing the first rally, here's what he said. i don't think that there was anywhere near enough attention as to the symbolism of the place, the symbolism of the way he started that rally off, and then what he actually said which was all about retribution and revenge and doesn't read all that different from what i was listening to as i was writing about those right-wing militia groups nearly 30 years earlier. >> well, and let's press on this because you write this -- quote, when i spoke wh ben and a few days later, he wouldn't stop taughting trump's performance, referring to it as his come

retribution speech. what i didn't realize was that me retribution according to some civil war historis served as the code words for the confederate secret service's plot to take hostage and eventually assassinate president abraham lincoln. quote, the use of the we can phrase come retribution suggests that the confederateovernment had made a bitter decision to repay some of the misery that had been inflicted on the south. william a. tidwell, james o. hall, david winfred gaity wrote in the 1988 book, come retribution, the assassination of lincoln. quote, bitterness may well have been dected toward persons held to be particularly responsible for that misery, a abraham lincoln certainly headed the list. bannon actually recommended that i read tha book, erasing any doubt that he was intensionally using the confederate code word to describe trump's speech. does this cross a line?

>> i mean, i mean it's just mind blowing. but steve bannon now wanted me to be sure that i gave the full, what he called the predicate for that confederate plot which is that the confederate secret service was directly responding, again in that -- all written in the book, the 1988 book -- was a direct response to an order that abraham lincoln had given for a mission to try assassinate jefferson davis and the other confederate leaders. so bannon is saying he's not saying that it's about the cause of the confederacy or even the war itself, but it's direct retribution for an attempted assassination of the confederate leader. anyway, it's bizarre that we're talking about a speech by a presidential candidate in 2023 as reflective of a -- something

that the confederacy was doing to try to kidnap and assassinate abraham lincoln. i mean, look, trump wasn't calling for political asass nation, but he -- assassination, but he was caller for the annihilation of his enemies, what bannon is talking about. the annihilation not through violence he'll say but through other mens, political means. but the full and total anilelation of enmeets which is not just -- annihilation of enemies which is not just political opponents but deep state. the people that are going after him, the fbi, the justice department, the intelligence agencies. this is, you know, a full-on effort to annihilate trump's enemies. >> i mean, the line, though, from waco to mcveigh is a direct one, and the person who prosecuted the oklahoma city domestic terror attack is merrick garland. you know, these guys -- >> yes. >> -- have retribution invoking

the confederacy. clearly they have waco invoking something very direct, don't you think? >> yes. and i -- elsewhere in the book, and i know you and i will have a chance -- the book is out in about 11 days or so. there's a lot more in there. this excerpt in "the atlantic" is from the first chapter setting up the themes. there is another -- there is something else that comes a little bit later which is i ask -- and again with bannon, i ask him aren't you concerned? i mean, as a human being, aren't you worried about the prospects of violence? and his answer to me was, no because we are going to win. >> tim, let me bring you in on this. i know what comes after this chapter, and i have to say betrayal intersects so intimately with your

investigation. this is a warning. i mean, if people want to hear it, this is a warning for what's coming in the next 12 months. in terms of how deliberate locating trump's campaign launch in waco was, what are your thoughts and concerns about that? >> direct parallel to what happened as a response to his rhetoric before january 6th. again, this is not rhetoric. so many people who were at the capitol heard, believed, and ultimately acted on the president's statements that the system was rigged, that the election was stolen. and it just like what follows from that belief in waco is oklahoma city, what follows from those assertions by the president about the election is the attack on the capitol. so again, we've seen now historical parallels that these

words coming from the leader of the free world with a tremendous following have real consequences. and absolutely intentional, mindful. it's not enough to every so often throw in peacefully and patriotically when you're talking about fight, when you're talking about the system being rigged, when you're talking about the deep state being an enemy of the people. qualifying it every so often with the word peaceful does not take away from the intentional incitement of violence. so everything that john is laying out in the book seems to me very similar as a historical parallel to what we saw play out dramatically and tragically at the capitol. and nicole, will continue to play out as long as irresponsible leaders continue to stoke the flames of anger and inspire their people to take up arms violently, then we're going to continue to have those problems.

>> tim, let me play some of -- most of it goes back to the one tweet on december 19th, be there, we'll be wild. watch. >> trump repeated his big lie and claimed it was, quote, statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 election, before calling for a big protest in d.c. on january 6th. be there, we'll be wild." supporters responded immediately. >> it's saturday, december 19th. the year is 2020. and one of the most historic events in american history has just taken place. president trump in the early morning hours today tweeted that he wants the american people to march on washington, d.c., on january 6th, 2021. >> now donald trump is calling on his supporters to descend on

washington, d.c., january 6th. >> he is now calling on we the people to take action and to show our numbers. >> we're going to only be saved by millions of americans moving to washington, occupying the entire area, if necessary storming right into the capitol. you know, we know the rules of engagement. if you have enough people, you can push down any kind of offense or a wall. >> this could be trump's last stand. and it's a time when he has specifically called on his supporters to arrive in d.c. that's something that may actually be the big push trump supporters need to say this is it. it's now or never. >> so tim, we could have -- i could have played that for two hours. the committee developed enough evidence of the call and response, call and response, call and response. that started at the earliest

late summer before the election. and the violence that ensued was in this contracted period of time. the campaign that john karl writes about was launched in waco, and it goes on every single day on social media, on right-wing media. and the message is the same, it's getting darker. what is the potential response to that call over a sustained four-year period? >> it continues to fester. it is not going away. you'd think that responsible elected officials have a common interest in telling the truth and in reducing the prospect of violence, it's exactly the opposite of what's happening. what also struck me about all of the people that we spoke to who were at the capitol was that for them, they're sort of wrapping themselves in the flag of revolution going back to 1776. a lot of the evidence that we

presented talked -- people were talking openly about this is 1776, sort of the fundamental principle of america's sort of pushing back against tyranny, the tyranny of the british crown, taxation without representation. they invoked that history and that imagery as a motivating force to resist their definition of tyranny that stole an election that was about to be certified. so they're sort of wrapping in the patriotic flag of sort of the greatest tradition of america irresponsibly. there was real tyranny in 1776. there was not real tyranny in 2020 with respect to the election. again, no factual foundation whatsoever. so the self-motivated use of those historical images is the through line all the way to january 6th. going forward your question was about going forward, again, i'd

like to think that accountability when this irresponsible rhetoric is rightfully charged as criminal and in a contested legal proceeding, found to be such, my hope is that that has a tendency to change some minds. it's not going to change all mind. some people will use it to support that misguided belief in some kind of deep state conspiracy to silence a change agent. but i hope enough people are convinced by the crucible of a public reckoning of sorts, of accountability, that it does change enough minds to make a difference. >> john karl, what does not emerge in the first chapter is any of if anyone close to trump prepares a counter-factual to the indictments. they simply plan to run against the justice system writ large. is that accurate? >> i think it's absolutely --

there's one you could add to delay the trial until after the election. it's absolutely to use it as evidence in the campaign that the so-called deep state is out to get trump, and by extension trump supporters. what trump argues over and over again is they are coming after me because their real target is you, and i am the one standing in the way. of course that's an absurd statement because trump is tried for hush-money payments to a porn star, pilfering classified documents, and using the power of the presidency to try overturn a presidential election. none of those things any of those people wearing red hats have done. now maybe specifically on the january 6th case people that were storming the capitol. but in terms of the people he is speaking to at his rallies, none of them spent, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars to try to silence a porn star. none stole classified documents

from the white house. so it's an absurd statement. but i think that the reason why bannon particularly is kind of an intellectual force of this movement, wants to harken back to waco and to that movement is those grievances were actually much more real and much more significant than what donald trump is complain abouting about. the militia movement -- and they weren't all violent terrorists like timothy mcveigh, many were peaceful people who were paranoid that their government truly was coming after them, and they could point to the raid of the branch davidian compound. for whatever you think about how that started, it ended in a complete disaster and with more than 50 people killed. they think back to randy weaver who was charged on -- had gun charges the previous year in ruby ridge, idaho, and you know, dug in and ultimately saw his child, his dog, his son shot and

killed. and you know, those were real serious grievances about the overreach of federal law enforcement. donald trump is pointing to the fbi exercising a search warrant at mar-a-lago because he failed to comply with a subpoena to turn over the documents. i mean, these are not -- that's why bannon is trying to reach to something greater as he's trying to re-create this movement that is very much a radical movement aimed at overturning the structure of the united states government, the united states -- and u.s. law enforcement. and one other thing on tim's point about the use of revolutionary rhetoric. you know, it's no -- that was very much at the heart of the militia movement that i wrote about, you know, 25, 30 years ago. timothy mcveigh bombed the

murrah federal building in oklahoma city on april 19th, and the date was for a reason -- april 19th, of course, is the date of the first shot at lexington and concord of the revolutionary war. they saw themselves as revolutionaries fighting against a corrupt government just as the american revolutionaries were in 1775, at the beginning of that war. the significant date being the first shot fired, not 1776 and july 4th the declaration of independence. it was that resistance, violent resistance, justified resistance to a federal government that they're trying to echo it now. and suggesting it's -- you know, at the extreme ends of this movement that that's what's needed now. >> of course the sick, twisted projection is that the allegations of corruption and campaign finance violation activity is against donald trump. the person who went to jail didn't have the alleged sex with

the porn star. the alleged subversion of democracy is something donald trump did, not anybody he was running against, not anybody in the so-called deep state. the squirrelling away of classified documents was something that he chose to do over and over again. and if he'd given them back he wouldn't be charged with any crimes, i am sure. and the fraud finding of his company was from decades of ruler slaps and get your you know what in order. i mean, the defiance and the subverting of his own visitors to cover his own rear end is sick stuff. and the rest of the book is as riveting as the first chapter. i can't wait for it to become public. thank you so much for joining us. the book is "tired of winning: donald trump and the end of the grand old party." available for preorder now. you will want to read this. when we come back, eric trump following his brother don jr. on the stand today in a manhattan courtroom. both having to answer to accusations of inflating the

size and value of their family business. we'll get the latest on how they fared on the stand. spoiler alert, it was bumpy. plus, senator tommy tuberville's dangerous hold on president joe biden's military nominees may have finally, finally have been too much even for his republican colleagues, erupting last night in a five-hour confrontation on the senate floor. it was very dramatic. we'll show it to you. and weeper keeping a close watch on gaza this hour where what appears to be one of the most air assaults we've seen unfold in the region is under way. stay with us. ith us

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on your screen we're going to show some video from just a couple minutes ago of the skies above gaza. our journalists on the ground have been witnessing repeated explosions and flares for the last hour. gaza has been site of intense fighting all day long between the israeli defense forces and hamas. however, a report live from the region later in the broadcast. we turn now to today's action at the courthouse in manhattan. all rather convenient if you think about it, the way eric trump and his brother don jr. before him simply were not able to recall the specifics of several major financial statements presented to them in court documents. the new york attorney general says we're grossly inflated -- were grossly inflated to benefit the trump organization documents that bear their own signatures.

that's been the name of the game today for the trump boys this week as jimmy kimmel quipped, being tried as adults in the $250 million civil trial in manhattan. what statements of financial condition, they've asked, what accounting standards? don jr. finished his testimony this morning, and then his co-defendant, his brother eric, at least tried to pick up where his brother left off. blame shifting. suggesting they don't remember anything that was just the accountants and their fault. they were the ones paying attention. but it might have taken a hit today when things got testy in the courtroom. shortly after eric trump testified that he never worked on the trump org statement of financial condition, that he didn't know anything about it, until the case came to fruition. the ag's office got him to acknowledge he was aware of those statements as far back as 2013. and then there's ivanka. ivanka is supposed to testify next week, but in the last hour,

like father like daughter, not only did ivanka and her legal team file a notice appealing the order for her testimony, but they're also asking for a stay of the whole trial while this appeal is considered. joining our coverage, "new york times" investigative reporter sue craig is back with us. plus, assistant u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst glen kirschner is here and tim is with us. craig, it sounds like things got pretty real today. take us inside. >> hey, nicole. we've got some new york life behind me. but i'll just start by talking a little bit about -- i actually didn't hear your question. >> oh. tell me what happened today. >> reporter: we'll start off with -- yeah. okay. that's an easy one. i kind of -- i was going to guess that. there we go, it's gone. we'll start with i did catch the video at the beginning. i think what the attorney general, the lawyers did with eric is sort of neatly take some of his deposition testimony and

then show what he's saying in court which certainly comes across as contradictions. there were things where -- where he said i didn't remember or wasn't involved and they had emails on the screen where over and over he was asked first about the statements of financial condition where he really is saying he really didn't know much of anything about them in the depositions. and he's asked about them repeatedly by different staff members. and then i want to take you in just to one very interesting example that just happened that was so striking. and it comes back to that quote that we've talked about and that people have been playing about eric trump where he said in his deposition and i want the full quote this time. he starts by saying as we know, that i pour concrete which, you know, we can discuss at length about that. but it finishes, i operate properties, and i don't focus on appraisals. and i can tell you most of the afternoon was focused on appraisals and what eric trump

knew about appraisals. and it's interesting in that the off days here, there was an appraiser who came in from cushman-wakefield and talked about his many interactions with eric trump and how they had gone back and forth on the appraisal of in this case seven springs, which is an estate in west chester that donald trump bought in the 1990s. and eric trump wanted the appraisal higher. at one point the appraiser said of this, this was a few days ago, that eric had ideas that were more lofty. and today we hear there was a lot of back and forth on it about how eric wanted that appraisal higher, and then the allegation is when he didn't like what he saw they simply didn't use it. so that's the sort of -- the sort of exchange that's we're seeing today. eric is on the stand through today, i think he's still up. i had to leave early. it was just getting -- heating up when i left. and he probably will be up tomorrow, as well.

>> sue, don jr. said this, and this seems to be sort of the point of everything -- quote, you pay experts millions of dollars to be experts. you sign off on what they give you, and you're liable. i mean, that's -- kind of how it works, right? >> reporter: well, it's interesting -- yeah, they're saying they relied on experts, and we've heard that over and over. that either they don't remember or they relied on experts. then the next tranche of that is we relied on experts and, in fact, we don't have a problem with the numbers that the experts came up with, and we don't have a problem if the banks relied on it. they're not even giving on the square footage issue at the triplex that donald trump owns in trump tower. the issue there, familiar to a lot of people, it's roughly around 10,000 square feet, and it had been put down on a number of documents that were submitted to financial institutions saying it was triple that amount. and they're just not -- they're not giving an inch on any of

this stuff in court today. they're not saying, yeah, even that was a mistake or it shouldn't have happened. we're not seeing that anywhere. it's more i don't remember, but even if i did remember, everything was fine. >> and glen kirshner, as a legal strategy when fraud has been found, when the judge has already ruled that they are liable for fraud and it's a matter of determining the consequences, is that a good legal strategy for them to deploy? >> the best legal strategy would be for them to plead the fifth and put it all behind them because y judge has already found that they are liable for massive fraud. now it's about how much will they be made to pay back, and whether they can continue to do business in new york or not. so you know, today it sounds like was sort of characterized by answers like not me, i wasn't involved, and i don't recall.

first of all, i can't recall is not a perjury-proof answer, and we can circle back to that. but the other thing that we keep hearing as suzanne was saying is they're blaming it on the accountants. again, let's set aside that don jr. was the certifying signature on some of these documents. but okay, let's put to the test your claim that you're blaming it on the accountants. you know, you misrepresented your father's penthouse to be 30,000 feet when, in fact, it was 10,000 square feet or a little over that. are you saying that the accountants went into the penthouse with a tape measure and blew it by 20,000 feet? was that the accountants' role? no. that, you know -- kind of reporting of facts and information to the accountants is obviously on the trumps. so you know, anywhere that they turn with these answers, i think they're going to lose. i'm not sure how gullible they

believe the judge is that he's falling for any of this. and i sort of maintained all along that they better be really careful or they're going walk right into a perjury charge if letitia james believes that she can prove that they are making materially false statements under oath. >> i mean, mbet is what the accountant donald bender said at the beginning of the trial, quote, were not giving all of the documents that we needed, bender testified, explaining at, quote, there were certain appraisals out there for a number of years that we had seen. we didn't screw it up. the trump organization made a mistake, and we didn't catch it, he said. so in terms of sort of cementing a narrative that they seem committed to cementing with higher stakes and doing what glen just said, it seems as though there are real holes and real contradictory testimony on that front, as well. >> yeah. glen's exactly right.

two problems with this strategy. one, the accountants rely on information provided by their clients, just like lawyers rely on information presentsed to them by clients. there is factual support for the notion that they did not provide accurate information to the accountants. the second problem is that they're certifying to the accuracy of what the accountants appraised, what the accountants concluded. that's why we have a certifying official. that's why companies have to attest to stand behind the opinions of experts that it hires. so they are presumed to know about, understand, and then affirm the opinions of those accountants. so both on the inputs and then on the certification of the output, they're responsible. so i agree with glen. it just seems to me that the more these facts develop, the more this i relied on the accountants, i don't get that

involved, is not going to be a very persuasive defense. >> so sue, what happens next, and what does ivanka do? >> well, i think we're going to -- the what happens next i think we're going to continue to see more of eric trump's testimony. and it's interesting just on that note, that right now there's a direct examination by a lawyer from the attorney general's office. so far there's -- the lawyers for donald trump have declined examinations. we could see members of the trump family up again for cross-examination in the coming weeks. sort of unclear what the strategy is. but we're only seeing a direct examination. and then the -- eric trump's direct could spill over until tomorrow. still to be determined on that. monday, the former president will be here testifying in the case under direct from the

attorney general. i would imagine that will run most of -- most if not all of monday. tuesday's election day, so the court is dark. and then wednesday we have ivanka trump, and she's going to be very interesting -- first of all, she's coming in, we don't have really a roadmap for anything that she might say because she has not given a deposition in this case. so if her testimony goes ahead, there's appeals under way on that. if it goes ahead, she'll take the stand, and the attorney general, the lawyers for the attorney general will be sort of flying a little bit dark on that. but there is just her area that she's most -- she's not a defendant in this, but she was very involved particularly in two properties they're going to be asking questions on. one is the financing of a hotel in washington that they used to own, that sold, called the old post office. and the second property is a golf course in florida called doral. both received financing and information was given to banks that the attorney general is

very interested in. >> sue craig, thank you so much for your reporting on this and for being in the middle of new york life. we're grateful. glen and tim, stick around. we'll take a -- we'll take a quick break and then get a live report from our colleagues over on the israel-gaza border where the last hour has seen some aggressive aerial attacks. is this for me? (sniffs) if you like squeaky toys from chewy it is. did i get anything this year? get a free, $30 e-gift card at chewy. i'm still going to eat your socks. no you're not. get great deals on gifts that deliver excitement at chewy. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis takes you off course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc tried to slow me down... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc caused damage rinvoq came through

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our colleagues in the middle east have been keeping a close eye on a volatile situation in gaza over the last hour. we have seen repeated explosions and flares in the skies above gaza. israel's military said today that its offensive is progressing, and that hamas' lines are, quote, collapsing. joining us now, nbc news correspondent allison barber at the israel-hamas border. israeli soldiers are have encybersecuritied gaza city. the military waging close quarters combat with hepatitis as they push forward with what officials have predicted will be a long and bloody ground invasion. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: yeah, nbc news ist said in a statement that they have encircled gaza city, and their forces are continuing to push in and move forward on this ground invasion. what we have been watching really for the last 45, 50

minutes, and we have video from just earlier where you can see how active this area has been, is just this constant flood of flares being sent up into the air on the border here. you're seeing some of the images, this is from our camera a few minutes ago. but constant amount of flares lighting up an area that i would describe as based on the mapping that we have seen and from where our location is as sort of the western, northwest outskirts of gaza city. and we've seen a massive amount of flares in the air lighting up the ground in an area where we believe israeli forces were presumably operating, seeing massive amounts of explosions on the ground there, constant tiny explosions, then also hearing louder booms, sort of more in the distance. and that has gone on or went on rather for about 45 minutes. the heaviest concentration we have seen of flares being used to illuminate one particular pocket on the ground in gaza city really since we have been out here. i've been talking, as we've been with you, reporting throughout

the weeks, really since friday when israel announced that they had ground forces in northern gaza, that's when i would describe what we started to see as the real escalation of what we later found out was the second phase of this war. i think we have continued to see that escalation and sort of just a steady escalation and kind of maintaining that posture since then. what we've seen in the last 40, 45 minutes, i don't think it's necessarily a larger escalation, but i think it perhaps suggests that what israel is talking about is happening, that they are very close and on the outskirts of gaza city, and they are ramping up their movements on the ground and likely and based on what we were hearing from military experts a while ago, using this massive amount of flares to give their ground forces light so they can see and move forward even further. israel has been very clear on their intentions here. they say that this second phase of the war is a second phase, and that it is not going to be a

war big picture that finishes quickly. they have said this war will happen in stages, that it will be difficult, and sustained fighting for likely months to come, and that ultimately their main goal is to dismantle hamas entirely. we know that israeli forces have seen casualties. yesterday the israeli military was saying that in this fight they had lost since the beginning of the war at least 300 soldiers, over 300 soldiers. hamas' military wing have put out statements saying that they think the numbers are even higher. they have released footage showing their forces coming out of those tunnels, the underground system that's estimated to be about 300 miles worth of tunnels underneath gaza, showing their fighters coming up out of the ground, targeting israeli tanks and essentially disappearing back inside of those holes. we know that israel has described today's activities as just a vigorous escalation of their ground operations. prime minister benjamin netanyahu has described the

campaign in gaza, in southern israel as an active and a vigorous campaign. he describes the situation on the northern border with lebanon and hezbollah as a defensive campaign. but i think we are seeing constantly just this escalation inside of northern gaza. and what we seem to see tonight was some sort of heavy ground activity on the northwest outskirts of gaza city. you're probably hearing artillery in the distance again. that's constant. it seems like everything is coming from the ground, from the sky, and even from the sea because that direction where we're hearing the booms from, that's when you're getting more toward the mediterranean ocean. and israel has said that this is a fight every day that they are reporting firing rockets from the sea, from the ground, and also from the air, including face-to-face battles between hamas militants and idf fighters. we're hearing the pops again, we've heard frequently in the last few days in different periods, nicole, is machine guns.

some at times sound like something mounted on top of a tank or something like that being fired from this side, the israeli side, into gaza. so we have seen and will keep watching in this pocket of northern gaza. but we started to see all the flares, the smoke, all of that activity shortly after idf said publicly that their troops had started to encircle, and fully encircled gaza city. >> ellison barber, thank you so much. let me bring into our coverage, raf sanchez in israel. let me ask you about two pieces of reporting. nbc reporting earlier today that hamas was essentially hoarding 200,000 gallons of fuel as the humanitarian crisis worsens there in gaza. and "the new york times" reporting in the last half hour israel is targeting command centers'aunching positions and additional terrorist infrastructure. what are you seeing? >> reporter: well, just starting with the fuel. it is the absolute life blood of gaza. everybody needs it. the hospitals, which are

collapsing inside gaza, need it to keep their lights on. they need it for the incubators for premature by born children. they need it to keep the dialysis machines on. for patients, it is absolutely critical. and u.s. and israeli officials are telling nbc news that hamas is hoarding some 200,000 gallons of this fuel. they need it themselves for a number of things. critically, they have this vast underground network of tunnels beneath gaza. those tunnels require oxygen which is pumped through by different machines. those machines need electricity so you need fuel. you need fuel for the rockets. for moving vehicles around inside of gaza. and so you have a situation where according to these u.s. and israeli officials, hamas is prioritizing its war effort over the well-being of civilians inside of gaza. now, that does not mean that there is not pressure on israel

to allow fuel through the rafah crossing. the u.n. is saying their humanitarian efforts inside gaza will collapse if they don't get fuel. there is growing pressure it seems from the united states on israel to allow more humanitarian aid into gaza and to find a way for fuel to be delivered where it's needed without ending up in the hands of hamas. the israeli government over the last 24 hours appears to have slightly softened its position. prime minister netanyahu saying at this point there's no final decision on letting fuel in, but the head of the israeli military the chief of staff is saying israel will not allow a situation where the hospitals go completely dark because of a blockade on fuel. in terms of the situation on the ground, israel has not made explicitly clear what its goals on the ground inside gaza are, but everything we can see

indicates that they are concentrating on the northern half of the gaza strip. that is where they have asked civilians to leave. to go south. that is where their ground forces are concentrated and that, tonight, is where this very, very intense ariel artillery naval bombardment is also concentrated. the israeli spokesman saying tonight they have now succeeded in encircling gaza city and the question is, what comes next. do they lay siege to this very large urban center or try to fight their way into the heart of it. it's possible that the intensity of the strikes we're seeing tonight are in support of ground forces who are moving closer into the heart of gaza city. they are leaving the periphery and that this intense fire is designed to cover their advance. but as we've been saying for weeks now, hamas is fighting on home turf. they have the advantage of knowing the terrain much better

and they have that vast, vast tunnel network and they have been popping out, ambushing israeli forces throughout gaza. israel says it has lost at least 18 soldiers since the ground offensive begun including one senior officer who was very, very involved in liberating one of these kibbutz on the border from hamas terrorists on october 7th. >> it is a country whose reservists have all been activated. some have come from this country, from all over. tell me about the sort of state of the israeli public. are they united behind these offenses that we're seeing behind you? >> reporter: you know, it's a complicated question and it gets more complicated by the day. we were up in tel aviv today. we were speaking to the families of some of the 230 or so hostages who are being held. there is real fear.

i won't say there's despair because they feel a real sense of urgency, but they are deeply frightened. they feel the israeli government doesn't seem to have a serious plan either for negotiations or for rescue and they wake up every morning and they see these new image of intense bombing inside gaza. of israeli ground forces fighting street by street. these frankly taunting statements from hamas which cannot be verified by nbc news which claim that hostages have been killed by israeli strikes. there is, i think, still a broad public consensus that hamas can no longer rule gaza. that they cannot be allowed to effectively have a terrorist mini state from which they can plan another massacre like they did on october 7th. there is a level of determination in this country and the government is banking that that determination will get the army. will get the nation through what

are going to be difficult days ahead. more than 300 israeli soldiers killed since october 7th. around 18 killed since the ground offensive began. we are seeing funerals starting at military cemeteries all around this country. so there are going to be difficult days. prime minister netanyahu has been in public somewhat. he's been taking questioning at press conferences. occasionally meeting with families. he's been meeting with troops. he has not been embracing the nation. he's not been out and about. he's not been very public. he's been largely in his command center inside the defense ministry in tel aviv. but this is certainly a moment when israel is being tested and it's certainly a moment when people inside of gaza, 2 million civilians who have been living through weeks of bombardment, now dealing with this encroaching ground offensive. they are being tested, too, and

have nowhere to run. the health ministry says more than 9,000 of them have been killed so far, including 3600 children. and unicef is saying the gaza strip is becoming a graveyard for children. so these are very dark days on both sides of the border. >> we're so grateful to you for taking some time to talk to us. thank you very much for saying that for us. we'll have much more on this in the next hour. we'll talk with the head of the usaid. also thanks to tim who got us through the first hour. the next hour starts after a very short break. anything could happen. very short break anything could happen. having triplets is... -amazing -expensive. so, we switched to the bargain detergent,

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no matter whether you believe it or not, senator tuberville, this is doing great damage to our military. i don't say that lightly. >> this power is extraordinary that we're given but it's incumbent upon us to use it in a reasonable way and not to abuse it in such a way we end up putting in harm's way the capabilities of our military and the well-being of our men and women this uniform. >> these are the people kicking in doors in falluja, shooting terrorists in the face and we have people saying they're desk jockeys and not warriors? that's ridiculous and insulting. >> better late than never. it's now 5:00 in new york.

a remarkable scene there on the senate floor last night as members of senator tuberville's party finally, finally, had enough. for nine long month, everything they described has been going on as the senator from alabama has been holding up military promotions. 375 of them so far. in protest over the military's travel policy for members seeking abortion healthcare. and after months and months and months of what "the washington post" describes as simmering republican frustration, a few members of his own party reached a breaking point. last night's back and forth lasted almost five hours. tuberville's republican colleagues bringing up 61 individual military nominations and tuberville objected to each one. >> we have done the best we can to honor the request of fellow

senator that these nominations be brought to the floor and voted on individually. and i really respect men of their word. i do not respect men who do not honor their word. >> she's looking at you, tommy. tuberville's political stunt has left our nation's military without confirmed leaders in many, many, many key positions. at oneoint over the summer, three branches of the military operated without confirmed leadership. theentagon estimated by the end of the year, 650 of the 825, will be impacted. we told you yesterday about the hospitalization of the top marine corps general. he was forced t work two jobs because his number two had not been confirmed. y, they sought to remedy there. lieutenant general christopher

mahoney was confirmed along with two members of the joint chiefs of staff. voting on these positions individually was a step chuck schumer was forced to take after the general's health scare and knowing that crucial military roles cannot remain open. as our ally in the middle east is currently at war. so despite the rebuking we saw of tuberville last night by some republicans, can't forget it has been those numbers in that party has enabled tuberville to keep up the significant risk to our national security for months now. >> again, i just thought of this. chinese admirals and their military, they're probably watching this debate going i can't believe my luck. can't believe our luck. maybe we should attack taiwan tomorrow. we are going to look back at this episode and just be stunned. at what a national security suicide mission this became. >> his words and not just the

chinese, but the russians and bad actors in the middle east for sure watching. we start with iraq war veteran and chief executive officer, alison is here plus, lieutenant colonel and cofounder of operation saving democracy, amy mcgraph is here, who deserves a whole lot of credit for putting this on our radar and never letting this issue go. the editor at large for the bullwork is here. and national investigative reporter for the "washington post" is here with us. let me start with you, amy. the reaction to what unfolded last night. >> well, number one, i couldn't agree with senator sullivan more. this has been a national security concern. it's been a national security concern for nine months now and i'm really happy to see a few, several, republican senators finally stand up as you mentioned. but i'd like to remind people what this is all about. you take it back.

this is about senator tuberville not wanting women in the military who have served their country, who wear the uniform, to be able to cross state lines so if they're stationed in alabama, he does not want them to be able to cross state lines to access reproductive healthcare. that's what this is about. you're hurting our national security. hurting military, military families during a time when we have two major regional wars going on. all because of that and his republican colleagues as you mentioned, have sort of allowed it to happen. silence for nine months. >> we'll get to the politics in a second. i take that back. let's do the politics right now, amy. abortion has the support of 65 to 70% of all americans that it should be legal. i haven't seen polling on whether people think active duty military should be aowed to access healthcare from wherer

they are, butsn this the same aess to healthcare they've had if they were stationed overseas? >> absolutely. i mean, the military, it's going to protect troops. this is really important. and it's not just you know, this is women who have served our country who maybe come back from combat and maybe they want to have children but they have a pregnancy where their life is at risk. the military's going to help them get the care that they need. and if that means if you're stationed in a country that doesn't allow that care, they're going to help you get to a place back in the united states where you can get care. if you're stationed in alabama, you can't get the care you need. so what the military is doing is simply allowing you to cross state lines to get that care and helping you be able to do it. it's just about protecting those people, those women, who serve our country. that's it, but that's how crazy these right wing republican senators and members of congress

are that they want to try to impose their ideological views not only on the country, but on those women who serve our country to protect them. >> alison, i can't help but thinking this dynamic for women in the military goes next to or on the shelf alongside the tragedy of men and women coming back from combat tours and not receiving adequate mental healthcare. not receiving adequate treatment for ptsd or other traumas they've suffered on the battlefield. that this is the ultimate disregard for the men and women who do the most to protect our country and our way of life. >> yeah, i mean what you've got here is one senator putting his personal political agenda ahead of our troops, our veterans, and definitely damaging national security. unfortunately, you know, that has been the case for a long period of time. i'm glad the senators got set up as well. seems like it took a conflict in

israel where all of a sudden, an abstract concept is no more because we don't is a sent com center there and having a comen dant have a heart attack. so i'm really happy that his members of his own party are stepping in here and getting resolution around this, but it's a real damn shame that troops and our veterans have been dragged through the mud on the part of this political standoff. >> someone was explaining to me that no other institution in american civic life is as tied to the chain of command. so it's not just several hundred promotions. it's several hundred promotions in every single human being in the chain of command that is damaged. can you tell us one, if that rings true and two, what is the impact of halting military promotions? >> it's the end of livelihood of

the person whose promotion is being held up. in fact, when i actually confronted senator tuberville myself over the summer, those are the people i felt like he wasn't speaking to. he speaks to his colleagues and reporters on capitol hill but didn't have to look into the face of those people whose lives are being held up. on the macro level in the military, it just created uncertainty from the top down. and so people want to know who their leaders are. they are desiring leadership and that's compromised in a stunt like this. >> let me show you some more sound from republicans who again, i'm not sure what broke their back. maybe it is this health crisis. maybe it is the crisis in the middle east. there's certainly been a crisis ongoing in ukraine but let me show you senators graham and sullivan again. >> i just hope we don't do this routinely. because if this is the norm, who the hell wants to serve in the

military when your promotion can be canned based on something you had nothing to do with? >> there is ready decisions and that's the whole point. we have a really dangerous world and to say oh, don't worry. this isn't impacting readiness. with all due respect to my colleague, that's just wrong. >> readiness used to be one of those circuit breakers, right? we would do all sorts of stupid, mean things in our politics but we wouldn't mess with that third rail of combat readiness. actually, we go back even farther, we wouldn't mess with the military at all. that ship has sailed. but that it took republicans traveling nine months beyond tampering with military readiness is a milestone worth marking. >> it is. you know, i think it's really important to hone in on two of the comments that have been made thus far.

senator sullivan basically saying you know, putin and she are waking up with glee at this event. saying that it's really just about promotions. saying it's just about individuals who deserve to get another star or another important position really doesn't capture what's going on here. and i'm glad you mentioned chain of command because i remember the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff not so long ago the chairman, mark milley, describing why an acting leader is not the same as the permanent leader. the acting leader doesn't have the ability to say, okay, everybody, i'm harnessing the horses, we're doing x. he can or she can, but it's different. it's a different kind of planning and resolve and mission decision making that puts readiness in peril. and when senator sullivan said

that putin and xi are delighted, he's absolutely right. because there isn't permanent leadership in these hundreds of positions and you could argue dozens of critical ones. the idea that the marine corp. leader had two jobs and now cardiac arrest over the weekend, it kind of tells you how much people are soldiering, no pun intended, and how much people are shouldering that's inappropriate for this kind of important job. not just marine. there are many, many people below that leadership position that obviously are central to discussion making and i hope it doesn't take an active conflict like israel to make us see that. >> you know, charlie sykes, it's another example where it's already happening. we talk about political violence like oh, what if, wouldn't that be bad. we live in post january 6th

america. it's already happening. we're in a post republicans playing with combat readiness world. why do you think democrats aren't more aggressively taking this case to the country? because again, i know i don't know what makes the republican party tick anymore. but i'm pretty sure in the heartland of this country, they still support having a military that is funded, ready, prepared, and safe. and the republicans are turning them into sitting ducks. >> yeah, i can't imagine what the constituency is. i think that you saw that last night. i was struck by both the substance of the comments, senator sullivan talking about the impact on readiness undermining the u.s. military. but i was struck by the tone of the comments. that they waited nine months to confront this unserious, reckless and dangerous stunt by tuberville. they sounded exasperated and disgusted by what he is doing.

i think it sort of burst out because number one, it makes no political sense whatsoever. number two, it doesn't make any tactical sense whatsoever because you don't undermine the readiness of the u.s. military at a time of global peril over a policy issue. abortion or anything else. and they tried to offer him so many alternatives and offer ramps and joni earnst called him out. so i think what you saw there was republican senators are suddenly waking up and realizing they have allowed themselves and the u.s. military and the men and women who serve in the u.s. military, to be held hostage by frankly the dumbest member of the u.s. senate who is doing something that makes no sense. and it is i think you know, so telling that it did take this medical emergency and a war in

the middle east to kind of shake them out of that leather ji. this is the oath you've taken to uphold and look what you have allowed to happen to the u.s. military. yes, it's better late than never, but that they sat there for nine months and watched tommy tuberville pull off these stunts is truly remarkable. you could just sense, again, the frustration and tone -- >> charlie, it's not over though. they haven't fixed it. he hasn't lifted his hold and if they were to try to confirm all these members the way he would like them to, it would take 24 hours a day, 30 days straight, 30 days and 17 hours to process 273 military nominations. if the senate worked 24 hours a day and we all know they won't and they can't. the other important point is all that has happened in this story is that republicans are now also

mad. they haven't changed tommy tuberville's obstruction of military promotions at a time of a hot war in the middle east or raging in ukraine and russia and evidence that they are dangering the people in these jobs. >> it is an insane moment. i think you and i have talked about this before. why chuck schumer has allowed this to drag on for so long. why mcconnell has allowed his party to behave in this way. so i am not a parliamentary expert, but if there's ever a moment for the senate to change its rules to address this kind of an absurd outcome, this would be it, right? because you cannot allow the united states military, much less the united states senate, to be held hostage by one reckless, irresponsible, deeply unserious man like the senator from alabama.

>> still ringing in my ears, carol, charlie's blunt description of him as the dumbest person in the chamber. let me get into a little bit of what happens next because the drama is that republicans are now also calling him out. but again, nothing has changed in terms of confirming the backlog of hundreds and hundreds of promotions. let me show you what chuck schumer had to say about that today. >> this resolution was referred to the rules committee. when the time come, i will bring it to the floor of the senate for consideration. if we can't solve this problem another way, we'll all have to vote and move these nominees forward. we'll work with our republican colleagues to move this forward. because most of us want these holds. our service members deserve

better. >> there's something that gets lost between washington right and normal people, that if you've worked in washington, you have a hard time explaining to people why they can't just fix this. this is not the democrats' fault. this is the fault of the republicans for not keeping their own senator in line. but now that republicans have joined in with democrats, i think the clock is running on how long they have to solve it. what is your sense of the urgency they feel to do something extraordinary? >> feels though and i don't mean to sound too cynical, but you bring it to my mind when you say people who have covered washington for a long time. can't help but think some of the republican senators who have come forward on this extraordinary night on wednesday to say okay, you were one of us

and now we are going to call you out publicly as a person who's holding our military hostage and we have to fix it. we are doing that. i can't help but think part of that has a political point. the political point being we have millions of service members and family members who are voters. what happens if there is a horrible incident. i, of course, am not presing that, am not warning that, certainly not hoping for that. but what if ha happens? what happens to republicans long known by charlie and many others here on this program as the party of, that rallied for the troops. the party of law and order. the party that bought our adversaries in russia and china and the middle east who were you know, viewed as such threats. we had to address them face on. what of that party if something

really grave happens beyond a marine commander having a near heart attack or whatever health incident has occurred here. what if there is a true national security disaster that is ultimately traceable to some of these failed promotions? that is going to come back on this party i would imagine and it's weighing on some of these members. >> and amy, i'll give you the last word. all that i would add to carol's haunting and spot on point is that we're already there. we're already there. we're already moving military assets because of the war in the middle east. we're already aiding an ally against russia. we're already staring down a potential crisis or flare up between china. we're already there and this is how they're behaving. how do you think this ends? >> i would go further.

look, i believe that republican party almost the current republican party almost on a daily basis now, is disqualifying itself in terms of national security. it used to be the party that cared about national security. used to be the party of the military. used to be the party as carol said that pro veteran. almost every single thing they are doing right now is undermining our military. undermining our national security. they're pro putin wing has enormous power. how do they let the maga far right extremists of tuberville had nine months to do this to our military families? and that is something that the democratic party needs to be talking about more and more. >> charlie, i'll let you get in on that. this is a techtonic shift in terms of the identity and the

dna. there are a lot of things about the republican party that are unrecognizable. their affinity for the tools of an autocrat. their disregard for the peaceful transfer of power. all sorts of things. but this one, this one seems to cast perhaps the longest shadow. >> well, and it could cast an even longer shadow because as carol mentioned, the world is a dangerous place. this is a party that's taken a holiday from reality for a long time. the holiday is over. we're confronted with the crisis at home and abroad. this kind of frifalty, this kind of reckless performtive demagoguery was tolerated and has been tolerated and has been encouraged for so long in the republican party, but now, there are real world consequences. real people being affected. real security being undermined. you know, and to amy's point about what this does to the republican party's brand as being reliable.

supporters of national security in the military. this, they really do right themselves and this would be a huge example of political malpractice if republicans and democrats do not recognize the fact that they are playing with an incredibly dangerous, dangerous issue. and hopefully sanity will prevail because it has not so far. >> yeah, we'll stay on it as i said at the beginning. this has not been resolved. we just have republicans acknowledging the reality as it is on earth one along with the rest of us. alison, amy, charlie, carol, super power panel if there ever was one. thank you very much for starting us off on this really important story. when we come back, eric trump has left the building. the courtroom, that is. in the trump civil fraud trial but not before massive drama erupted in open court with the judge tearing into the ex president's lawyer and threatening to expand his gag order after comments the trump

lawyer made about the judge's clerk. and later, the biden administration making the case for more aid for the middle east as we monitor an intense night of explosions in the skies above gaza. samantha power will be our guest later in the broadcast. deadline white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. se continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

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court is now adjourned in the trump civil fraud trial but the day did not end without fireworks. a strong rebuke was issued of the lawyer after he brought up the law clerk again and saying

quote, do not refer to my staff again. she is a civil servant. his client, donald trump, is currently under a gag order. he's not allowed to make public remarks about the clerk and goran threatened to extend the gag order to attorneys. after he complained about the clerk passing notes, the judge got so mad he pounded the table. joining us outside the white house, lisa ruben. i'm guessing if the judge who's already decided you're liable for fraud is pounding the table, that's not good for what comes next? >> there are two proceedings. one is the legal trial against the trump organization and defendants and there's a separate political show going on. for that purpose, i'm not sure

whether kies cared the judge pounded the table. what they were really trying to do was distract from the line of questioning that aimer of the attorney general's office was about to get into which is that in 2021, when eric and his brother participated in a conference call about the statements of financial condition, they were well into the attorney general's investigation and eric trump had already testified in the investigative phase. that was the deposition where he took the fifth hundreds of times. andrew was about to get into that and that's when kies took the sideswipe at the judge's clerk that set us off on a different path entirely. >> so things were going really well for eric and don jr. before that. talk about how damaging that testimony could be. >> it was incredibly damning testimony until that point. at one point, elena got up and said mr. aimer is upset and

unhappy with my client's testimony. when aimer finally got a chance to speak after the fireworks settled about the law clerk, he made really clear this testimony is going great for me and in fact, made that gesture. saying i'm not going down that line because i'm unhappy. i'm going down that line because it's incredible to me that eric trump does not remember a conference call about the statements of financial condition that took place after he understood that we were investigating and well after he was concerned enough about our investigation that he took the fifth hundreds of times. that's not credible. >> what could happen to kice? >> i think there is a possibility that the judge does expand his order to cover the lawyers. he was clear saying i have a first amendment right to object to note what is going on in this courtroom. i have a right to make a record.

and the judge was equally forceful saying that you do not have a first amendment right that trods on my clerk to be safe. to complain in a way that compromises her safety. he even got up again and cast dispersions on our political background. they are shaping a narrative in which the law clerk is the ras putin figure. whispering in his ear. passing notes. controlling his judgment. that's not what i see going on in the courtroom but that's clearly what they want others to see and what they want others to reflect on from the transcript. the fact there is not a camera in the courtroom to belie what chris kice is saying is the danger. nobody can disprove what he is saying on the record because only his memorialization is being reflected. i wish the judge and the other judges of the new york sate court system would reconsider having a camera in that

courtroom for that purpose because what i see going on there is not nearly as pernicious. >> chris kice has a lot of experience. has he complained about his rights in a trial before? >> it's not something i know he's complained about. he is not principally a trial lawyer. he was known as an appellate specialist. he previously served as solicitor general of the state of florida and it's in connection with that role that he first came to trump's attention. it was thought trump really needed a superstar appellate lawyer with all of these criminal investigations surrounding him. chris is not really doing most of the trial work here. that's largely falling to cliff robert and haba, but he is the principal objector. so whether or not he's done that before, i would doubt it. i'm happy to be disproven though. >> we looked a little bit, too, and didn't find any examples.

what a, i don't want to call it a circus because i think that's what they want it to be described as. what a disruptive pattern of behavior on the side that isn't doing very well. lisa, thank you for jumping out and talking to us about it. we're really grateful. >> thank you. we're going to switch gears again when we come back. a second day of evacuations from gaza. including many more americans. it comes as the biden administration is calling on israel to pause military operations periodically for humanitarian reasons. we'll get a live report from the region after a short break. shok tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish.

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as we said from the start, israel has not only the right but the obligation to defend itself and also to take steps to try to make sure this never happens again. how israel does this matters. we've seen in recent days palestinian civilians continuing to bear the brunt of this action and it's important that the united states is committed to making sure everything possible is done to protect civilians. >> u.s. secretary of state blinken today ahead of his visit to israel and jordan on the growing calls for humanitarian pauses in the conflict between israel and ham. he's set to arrive in tel aviv in a few hours.

"the new york times" reports this, quote, secretary of blinken will urge the israeli government to agree to a series of brief pauses to allow for hostages to be released safely and humanitarian aid to be distributed. it comes as israeli soldiers are encircling gaza city. part of the intense bombardment we've been monitoring with flares and explosions lighting up the night sky there. today, the second ranking democrat in the senate, dick durbin of illinois, called for a cease fire tied to the release of hostages. he's the first u.s. senator to call for a cease fire tied to the release of hostages. also today, more foreign passport holders fled gaza through the rafah crossing. approximately 370 americans were scheduled to depart. the egyptian foreign ministry said today officials are working to evacuate more than 7,000 foreign nationals out of gaza through the rafah border. joining us now, my colleague,

nbc news correspondent, ellison barber. what are you seeing? >> we started to hear and see some explosions in this section of the border. our last count, we saw a flash then about ten seconds later, heard the boom. it sounds like that is heavy caliber artillery about two miles roughly away from where we are standing right now. as you mentioned, israel says their troops have completed the encirclement of gaza city. they have consistently said they plan to focus most of their military efforts on northern gaza and gaza city in particular because they say that is where hamas militants primarily operate out of. you're hearing that artillery boom again. this has been consistent throughout the night. that will be a bit more sporadic but what we saw less than an hour ago was just a massive amount of activity in one area

that seemed to be on the outskirts, the northwest outskirts of gaza city. we saw a heavy amount of flares in the sky. explosions on the ground. we could hear the booms rattling off almost one after another and based on what some military experts were saying, it seemed like they were using a massive amount of flares in that area to light the way for some sort of ground combat activity. that was all happening not long after the spokesperson for israel's defense forces had said their troops had encircled gaza city. this is a battle that is expected to be long. israel keeps telling their citizens to prepare for a long and difficult war. we know since this war began over 300 israeli soldiers have died since the ground innovation started and that started this second phase of the war. this ground invasion. it started on friday. since then according to spokesman people with the

israeli military, at least 19 israeli soldiers have died in their ground operation. as they get closer to gaza city, the fighting will likely become more intense. we have seen such immense impact of civilians according to the health ministry. they say around 9,000 people have died since this all began. according to israeli officials, a lot of people have evacuated out of northern gaza. they've been telling people to do that for weeks but the issue when it comes to evacuating inside gaza is that we're talking about such a small area of land about the size of philadelphia with a population of more than 2.2 million people. so there really not a lot of space for people to evacuate. there are hospitals in gaza city. the u.n. and other organizations expressed concern when initial calls came saying people are on ventilators, are being cared for in this area. they can't just leave. on top of that, there's not

physically enough room for people to find safety. as this progresses, as we expect to see israeli military on the ground likely push further into gaza city, we know there are still civilians there. exactly how many, it's difficult to know now. before this war started, the population was around 600,000. there are different numbers that have come in in terms of people that have evacuate. the numbers of people that are internally displaced that have left this area, but we've seen throughout this war that almost anytime there's a massive amount of military activity inside gaza, civilians are impacted in some form of fashion and we are also seeing more video start to come out from hamas' military wing of their military activities and what they have described as clashes from forces on the ground. it's really striking to see the way they are using the tunnel

system they have inside of gaza. in one video we watched yesterday, you could see them popping out from the tunnels in sort of a grassy area where there wasn't a lot of buildings around, targeting a tank and just disappearing back under that tunnel system and that is what israeli forces and other military experts have said is going to make this phase of war so challenging and likely so bloody is pause it's urban combat. one, inside of gaza city and that is always one of the most difficult types of combat. we've seen how bloody that can be in ukraine in bakhmut, but you add in this layer of the tunnels and it makes this very unpredictable. we have seen a lot of activity along the border. you're hearing it again. it's fairly consistent and not including all of the ground activity we were seeing through the flares and with the haze just an hour ago.

>> thank you. we're really grateful. please stay safe. joining us now, samantha power. someone who has worked on these issues for longer than anyone we could talk to. i want to peel the layer of your expertise in atrocities. and i want to just ask you to step back and tell us what you have seen since october 7th. >> well, i've seen what humanity has seen, which is monstrous, intentional, long planned attacks on people dancing in the desert. families sheltering and huddled in basements. being incinerated. beheadings in front of children. and we've seen a response in which israel is exercising its legitimate right to self-defense but civilians are caught up in

that in what you just heard is a very densely populated area and now we see mothers digging their kids out of rubble and desperate need for food and water that we are trying to meet with our partners on the ground. we see president biden who's becoming almost a humanitarian desk officer in pushing for trucks and water and fuel and respect for international humanitarian law and distinguishing between hamas and civilians as hard as that is when hamas is willing to cause its own civilians to pay the price and set up shop in place where is civilians are gathered including refugee camps and so forth. this is an excruciating, devastating civilian conflict. we think we've already seen more aid workers killed in this conflict in such a short period of time than anywhere else, you know, in the duration of

conflict over the course of the last year. so, it's a really, really difficult circumstance. our emphasis as u.s. aid, u.s. government, is mitigating humanitarian suffering and right now, that is palestinian civilians facing really difficult circumstances in gaza. >> this humanitarian desk officer, it creates an image, but it's also sort of a term of art and u.s. secretary of state blinken since his first trip to the region, i remember that first weekend i was anchoring on a sunday and he was trying to get the water turned back on. can you just talk about how involved the united states government is. your staff. the white house. the state department. in this piece that you're talking about. aiding the civilians. >> yeah, it is a level of granularity on specific supplies in that is very unusual for me to have seen in my eight years in the obama administration and my several years here in the

biden administration. but it is because the political decisions need to be made on the part of israel but also egypt to be allowing for example palestinian, palestinians who have medical issues and need to be medically evacuated, that's for entry into the egypt. and it requires high level political guidance from prime minister netanyahu and president sisi. for trucks to move, water to get turned back on, for fuel to be allowed in given that the government of israel's position was that fuel was dual use but we see on the ground hospitals can't run on generators anymore. desalination equipment can't work to turn contaminated water into drinking water. these are the kinds of tactical issues that president biden has been working every day and secretary blinken just

dispatched back into the region. localized pauses, multiple pauses, so again, food can get in. hostages and those in need of medical evacuation can get out. but also i think to the point that was made again in the previous segment. you know, there are civilians now who are in gaza city who for whatever reason because they were elderly, they were infirm. because they were scared their house, they would never get to go back to their house. that they would be permanently displaced, that stayed in gaza city. we need to find a way to ensure if that ground combat is coming to their neighborhood, if they are civilians, they have the ability to get out and get to southern gaza, for example, which is safer. so these pauses are incredibly urgent and important for civilians caught up in harm's way. >> you mentioned that hamas sets up shop in civilian hubs. secretary of state blinken has made that point in the region and other places. nbc reported today that hamas is

hoarding the fuel that is available and some that has come in. how do you work around a terrorist network like hamas? >> well, there's no simple answer to that. u.s. forces faced not the same situation but analogous circumstances in fighting terrorist groups in iraq and afghanistan. it's a tried and true tactic. sadly, tragically. but one of the things i know that secretary austin conveys to his military counterparts on the israeli side is that it is a strategic and moral necessity strategic and moral -- to abide by international humanitarian law, to respect schools and mosques and, you know, facilities where civilians are gathered. you have u.n. facilities, schools where hundreds of

thousands of people are gathered, four times the capacity of some of these facilities. so even though it's a terrible burden that the israeli defense forces have to bear and that u.s. forces have to bear in their conflicts when terrorists were taking advantage, again of civilian infrastructure, to go forward and attack civilian targets sets back the cause fundamentally. you know, it means that the legitimacy of the effort is undermined, and that's why in addition to all of the tactical discussions about fuel and water and food and getting people in and out, so many discussions have been had at the highest levels on international humanitarian law, on the importance of respecting even those civilians who, the lives of those civilian who is stayed in northern gaza and didn't take up the evacuation order for any reason, they're still civilians. and somehow to find a way to distinguish between legitimate

military targets, acted upon in legitimate self-defense and civilians who were not part of the attack against israel and want nothing more than to be able to live and take care of their families. >> it's an extraordinarily complicated moment in an extraordinarily complicated part of the world. we're glad to talk to you about it. thank you very much. >> thank you, nicole. quick break for us. we'll be right back. break for us we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ we're building a better postal service. for more on-time deliveries. and easier, affordable ways to ship. so you can deliver even more holiday joy. the united states postal service. delivering for america.

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times indicted ex president is now officially asking a federal judge, judge tonya chutkan to immediately halt all hears against him until she issues an opinion on whether or not he has presidential immunity. that's according to a filing last night by trump's attorneys a response, jack smith's team responded eparate filing in the case of mishandle of classi documents. yesterday, the court conducted a hearing on the defendants after dendant trump claimed it n which should be deln part because the march 24, 2024 trial date i district of columbia currently reqrumpnd his lawyers to be in two places at

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