everything he saw was women and children coming into that hospital. they didn't have food, they didn't have electricity, he just ran out of his medication, literally a few days before he was evacuated. you know, he was just and despair. i can't express to you enough how hard it is as a member of congress to get our government to please, please help save the lives of americans and get them out. again, they didn't move with the urgency that i was hoping. but one of the things we should note, chris, the overwhelming bill that he is home safe and his family is still in gaza right now being bombarded. and every day he worries that they are not going to be able to live through this. >> congresswoman rashida tlaib, palestinian american member of congress, thank you so much for making time for us. >> thank you. >> that is all in on this wednesday night, alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. >> thank you my friend, it is a big news night tonight. we will get right to it. when the supreme court

overturned roe v. wade last year, there was immediate and palpable outrage that spread quickly across the country. that a lot of people thought tt that outrage would translate to electoral doom for the political party that had been pushing to end roe. but instead, after the court's decision, the response from elected republicans was basically no big deal. >> the kind of angry leftist's, many of whom were pretty ignorant and don't even know what overturning roe means, i think a month afterwards they will be surprised, wait, nothing about my life changed. >> there is a narrative forming in america that the republican party and the pro-life movement is on the run. no, no, no. we are going nowhere. >> my guess is in terms of the impact on federal races, i think it is probably going to be a wash. >> did not turn out to be a

wash. not even close. in ballot measure after ballot measure across the country, voters came out in support of reproductive choice. in kansas, in vermont, in california, in michigan, in montana, in kentucky, literally everywhere abortion rights were on the ballot. abortion rights one. in the 2022 election, republicans predicted a red wave. but the red wave crested before it could even reach the shore. supporters of abortion rights turned out in droves to stem that tide. and last night, it happened again. in ohio, a state that trump won by eight points and 2020, people voted by a margin of 13 points to enshrine abortion rights in their state constitution. in kentucky, a state that donald trump won by 26 points in 2020, voters chose to reelect democratic governor andy beshear, who very vocally campaigned on protecting abortion rights. in the swing state of virginia,

republican governor, glenn youngkin, channeled the hopes of so-called moderate republicans by campaigning to win the republican control of the state legislator so that he could pass a 15-week abortion ban. a ban that he wanted to sell it to the american people as the sensible republicans abortion ban. that plan failed as well. democrats not only kept control of the virginia state senate, they managed to take control of the state house from republicans by running against glenn youngkin's abortion ban. way to go, governor. now, today, conservatives are freaking out about all of this. finally starting to realize that it is not a wash. that people do care and boy, do they care allot. >> democrats are trying to scare women into thinking republicans don't want abortion legal in any circumstances. >> no abortion ban? i think that is what the voters said. >> we have looked at the midterm elections last year, we

said in instead of a red wave, we saw a red ripple. i think that was because of abortion. >> these results to underscore the potency of the abortion rights issue. if the democrats could run abortion rights against trump in 2024, they probably would do very well indeed. >> it does seem like the republican party generally has a real problem with winning. >> none of this is lost on democrats. the ads are being cut, reminding people that the republican front-runner in the coming presidential race is the one who made all of this happen in the very first place. >> i got rid of roe v. wade. >> i am the one who got rid of roe v. wade. >> i was able to do it. and it was very honoring to do it. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, it is a principle. >> the answer is that it has to be some sort of punishment. >> for the women? >> yes. there has to be some form. >> it remains a vital role for the federal government in protecting unborn life. >> nobody has ever done more

pro-right to life than donald trump. roe v. wade, they finally won. >> the iowa bill was decided and they wouldn't be able to do anything if i was not able to do what i did. >> that is the playbook democrats now understand they can run against donald trump. and that puts donald trump in a very awkward position. because as far as his base is concerned, the reason republicans keep losing on this is because they have not been extreme enough. >> the reality here, trump delivers maga. maga delivers victories. this was a turnout issue about maga. don't come here and start whining about abortion. stand up and do your job. yet in the trenches and fight. >> joining me now is congressman hakeem jeffries, house minority leader, thank you so much for being here on this very busy night. i am struck by the ways in which republicans are in both a state of shock, and denial.

it has come to my attention that in the last hour, senator lindsey graham says that he plans to reintroduce his 15-week abortion ban, senator j.d. vance agrees with the introduction of this bill, saying he believes that they could get a majority of the american people on board with something. what is your reaction to senate republicans who think that the answer to last night's problems is to double down on an abortion ban? >> we are dealing with extreme maga republicans who have one objective, which is to jam their extreme right-wing ideology down the throats of the american people and fundamentally, what that has meant, it is that they want a nationwide abortion ban. with the extreme maga republicans want to do is criminalize abortion care. what they want to do is to create a society where women have to live in a place with government mandated pregnancy is. so this issue is one that we

will see them continue to double and triple and quadruple down on, because it is fundamentally why many of them are an elected office. we will continue to make clear that we believe in a women's freedom to make her own reproductive health care decisions, and reproductive freedom will certainly be on the ballot next november just like it was this november. >> they seem to think, leader jeffries, that there is some -- there is some difference that the american public sees in a band versus a 15-week, what they call limit, or at least that is what virginia calls it. they keep hammering down that the public sees a difference between giving a women reproductive freedom for an entire pregnancy or just part of the pregnancy. what is your response to that specific strategy? >> abortion care should be a choice between a woman and a

doctor. not these extreme politicians who are trying to -- that a woman should be able to make that is what freedom in america is all about. the american people, as was evidence in kentucky, and ohio -- they are not fooled by the republican efforts to spin what they are trying to do, which is to eradicate reproductive freedom in america. as i indicated, that was their agenda, that was their objective, that is why they stop the supreme court, and that is why they have to live with the extremism being made clear to the american people. >> i know that you've been -- the mood inside of the house democratic topic has been one

of -- i let you characterize it but it has been a positive day in the house but there is been -- president biden's chances. and i wonder how much you think the results of last night or inexplicably linked to president biden, or whether those results are more a testament to the democratic party platform. >> president biden continues to be underestimated, and president biden continues to exceed expectations. it is not just a leader of our country, the leader of the free world, but he's the leader of the democratic party. but yet, what we have seen under president biden's leadership governmentally is incredible things being done for the american people, we are going to have to lean into that, and of course articulate that we will continue -- but also to point out that he

supports reproductive freedom. he supports democracy. he supports building from the bottom up and who ever appears on the other side of the aisle is just going to try to jam their extreme ideology in the throes of the american people. there will be a clear contrast with president biden at the top of the ticket, and as he consistently shown, we will do -- to continue to deliver results for the american people. >> i want to hang on to what you just said, when you to lean into the presidents accomplishments. what does that practically mean to you? we have been busy governing producing big results for the american people, so we can talk about what we've been able to do clean water in every single community, infrastructure, gun safety, legislation for the first time, in 30 years.

the chips and science act which brings manufacturing jobs back to the american united states of america certainly through the inflation reduction act. we do want to be able to articulate what we've done to say trust us. we mean what we say -- making life better for every day americans and if you give us the ability to continue to govern, we will build upon these accomplishments to make life better for hardworking american taxpayers. >> the word there is to continue to govern because as you lay out the laundry list, there's a lot of governing that democrats have done which brings me to the cliff that we are all barreling towards. the government shutdown in nine days. we have a deadline, a hard

deadline, you had your first meeting with the new speaker of the house, mike johnson a week ago, how are the discussions going with your colleagues across the aisle and what is your impression of speaker johnson? >> from the very beginning of this congress under prior management, that will speak to johnson, we've made clear that we are going to, as democrats, try to find common ground with the house republican colleagues, whenever and wherever possible in order to improve the quality of life for the american people. however, we are going to push back in which ways we've seen it manifest throughout this year is the republican attempt to shut the government down or to tried to extract these extreme policy proposals -- we are not paying a single

extreme republican ransom note. we will defend the republican people and what we need to do is make sure that we continue to fund the government so that the government can provide for the health, safety, and economic well-being of the american people. we are willing to have reasonable bipartisan conversations, so we are not going to be subject to any of her that is designed to shut down the american people by threatening us with a government shutdown. >> -- >> my view is that the continuing resolution will reflect the spending level at the current fiscal year 2023 nobles. and we arrive at a spending agreement, it should be consistent with the bipartisan fiscal responsibility act. basically, what we are saying to republicans is that you made

an agreement with president biden, set top line spending numbers, keep your agreement. keep your word so that we can do what is necessary for the american people. >> you lay out the facts of what has happened. and this house republican. do you think that speaker johnson is any good at this? >> he believes what he believes authentically. so far we have had a very cordial relationship and i expect it will continue. hopefully in a positive, forward-looking fashion to solve problems for the american people. we are not going to lead them cut social security nemours, and undermine reproductive freedom, we are not going to let them blow up our democracy

and we are going to try to make sure that we are building an economy that works for the middle class and all those who aspire to be part of it. and if they are willing to meet us in a bipartisan way in that space, then we are going to make some positive changes for the american people. >> i've got to ask you one more question because we focus a lot on the republican conference, but there's been a fracture from the house democratic congress over israel and hamas, and what is happening in gaza. in the 2022 election cycle you started something called team blue pack to raise money to defend incumbent democrats against primary challenges. outside groups are threatening to primary incumbent democrats who support a cease-fire in gaza there's a number of vulnerable incumbents in your caucus, cori bush, jamal bowman, some really, omar, rashida tlaib, are you going to dedicate resources to defending

those democratic incumbents? >> many of those individuals are people who have clearly indicated that i will support to all of our members from whatever part of the conference, or caucus that they come from. in terms of the ability to be able to communicate with the people i represent. that is what house democratic leadership has traditionally done that is what house democratic leadership should continue to do. >> so that is a yes? >> absolutely. >> house minority leader hakeem jeffries on the record being straight up, we appreciate it, sir, thank you for your time. i, please come back whenever you have the inclination, the energy, and the availability. i really appreciate it. >> thank you very much. >> we have a lot more ahead this hour, and protecting abortion rights, hope for a wave of victories for democrats last night on the issues already shaping up to be front and center in 2024. the senator, amy klobuchar, joins me later this hour.

but first, last night prove to be a referendum on a slew of other referendum culture were topics. press secretary robert joins me to discuss the lessons for democrats right after the break. stay with us. stay with us hey you, with the small business... ...whoa... you've got all kinds of bright ideas, that your customers need to know about. constant contact makes it easy. with everything from managing your social posts, and events,

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good night last night. not only did voters came out swinging in support of abortion, race evening proved to be a referendum another conservative priorities. remember moms for liberty? the group that led the republican charged on the anti-woke agenda in schools? they all endorsed one minnesota district lost two democrats. in north carolina, the candidates supported in a contested district also lost to a democrat. in iowa, 12 of the 13 candidates backed by moms for liberty, were wiped out. in pennsylvania, democrats won against at least 11 candidates aligned with the moms for liberty platform. in virginia, three moms lost by a lot. so the fairly clear indications that voters are turning away from the book bans, and revisionist history as conservatives sought to redefine us parental rights movements, it is, yes, fairly clear. and there is more. last night, virginia elected

the first transgender state senator. ohio voters supported a measure to legalize marijuana. and in kentucky, a ruby red state, voters elected an abortion supporting vaccine promoting democratic governor again. as ronald brownstein writes in the atlantic, a clear message from the party's performance yesterday is that democrats can still win elections by running campaigns that prompted voters to consider what republicans would do with power. joining me now is robert gibbs, former white house press secretary under president obama. it is thrilling to have you here today in new york city. thank you. first of all, what do you make of ron brownstein's contention that this is really about a repudiation of republican governance, and an affirmation of the democratic platform? >> think about where we were two years ago on election night 2021, watching glenn youngkin win the governorship, watching new jersey almost go read, and

i think that what he saw last night was just a pure pediatrician of the two years of that type of government, that type of culture war, you can see it in the house of representatives. they are talking about hakeem jeffries, for 17 days, the house representatives saying the pledge of allegiance because you couldn't even get enough people and enough leadership to rename a post office. you know? i do think that we will consult with choice, and you see with democracy, and a large with extremism, it is just too much. it is just something that ron desantis has run an entire presidential campaign between 35 and 38%. it is just not a way to win an election, and i am happy with some of those results, a product of two librarians. >> i do need to ask you about a

sort of, this sort of ghost of christmas future hanging over all of this which is how this translates to biden. there's been a lot, i talked to leaders about this momentarily at the end of that first block. but there is real concern on the part of democrats looking at both biden's approval numbers, and just how voters are reading him on the economy, even his lead on abortion is not as big as you would expect it to be. do you think that there is any question about how biden, if you will, it rides the coattails of the support for democratic policy? >> i think, you mentioned this to leader jeffries, i think that the first thing that they do you have to do is a better job in defining what has been done. and i think that particularly on the economic side, the administration has been into the trap that we have to be careful of in 2008, 2009, into 2012. and that is economic statistics can be better, and yet people do not feel better off. if you are trying to borrow

money for a house or car right now, you don't feel like america is back. i think there is an even no plane that has to be done. i think that the pulling and electorate, the pulling i think will change and the electorate will get focused when the campaign happens. that would explain last night. lessening twisty coleman nation of the 2023 campaign, we saw the grades when the contrast was put in front of voters, we will get a place like virginia, very focused on the issue of choice in abortion. i think when that happens at large, particularly with the six swing states but democrats are nervous about, when we focus on those choices and put them directly in front of voters, whether it is the governance issues, whether it is democracy, whether it is the economy, then i do think that there is definitely a path for president biden to be reelected. >> i think part of the reason

trump seems less repugnant, if not actually attractive disarm voters, it's because he has basically been muzzled on his most xenophobic, offensive language. because he has been focused on his criminal expulsion. he's been in courtrooms, he has not been this unleashed demagogue that he's been in previous years. but there might be some sort of, he's getting a mulligan for that almost. it sounds like, especially when you look at his approval among voters of color, it sort of begs the question, how and why could this happen? do you think that that will change once trump is back and then he will be, there's a lot of courtrooms next year as well, but once he's on the stump in a more pronounced way. >> i definitely think so. you use the mulligan gulf analogy. >> it definitely was the right term but i also think to myself that he's barely campaigning, right? playing a lot more goals, and as you said, visiting a lot more courtrooms and spending a lot of time with lawyers.

i most certainly think that when people get to see that again, and to see it up close, and to see if it, people felt the chaos of every news cycle being something just a little bit crazier. and when that merry-go-round stops for a little bit, you sort of forget that it was a scary ride. but i think that once you get back up on that merry-go-round, and it starts to go faster and faster -- >> let's really, the anaconda, the marrow go around is a bit benign. >> that is true. but once that thing gets but, up i think that people will get that. they will see that. and i think that the campaigns are going to be, campaigns were important last, night this campaign is going to be tremendously important. putting that choice in front of people, being the president, making those decisions, having to have trump talk about what he would be doing, i, mean this was a guy who just a few weeks ago was remarking about how smart his --

i think if we spend a week more on that it is not going to age well for somebody like donald trump. >> just about the biden campaign, there is something happening right now that i will not talk about. it is happening in florida. the biden campaign is effectively trailing the republican candidates down in the state. there is a dark brandon of exercising happening. and i think it is worth talking about the dark brandon me, not because it is just funny, but because it is kind of the biden campaign's rebuttal to the age question around biden. look how experienced he is. being his age and aviator shades is cool, make a bumper sticker out of it. is it effective? >> i think it's part of it. i think it's good to have a chip on your shoulder. his entire chant created to cover up a series of pejoratives about being president. it is graded into a bit like a chip on your shoulder about

taking that from them. you want to call me that? let's sell some merchandise, right? i think there is no doubt that this is an important election and people are going to have important questions about age and experience. the biden campaign and president biden are going to have to show each and every day the vigor and energy that they need. i think of the american peoples see what they've seen in the last few weeks, and the vitality in the energy from the response at the initial terrorist attacks by hamas, you know, he looked a bit different. he hogg kind of a different energy to him. i have a sense that that energy is going to hit when he's in the campaign as well, because he got into this for big reasons. protecting the soul of america, that is as big as it gets, and i think that, again, when the choice comes, i think when you kick into the gear of a campaign, my preference would be, let's start having those

contrasts now. even, i think we have a pretty good sense that what is happening in florida tonight is for second plays. and we know who the nominees are going to be, but the stage is somewhat set, i think that we saw this in 2012 because we started very early with governor romney. putting a frame around him and making people understand that his economic vision and president obama's economic vision were very different. one got us into this mess on when was going to get us out of this mess. and we forest everything through that and they need to start doing that as well. >> robert gibbs, thank you for your time and wisdom, it is great to see you. coming up later this hour, donald trump likes to say some of the activities that he's now criminally indicted for, that he carried them out on the advice of his lawyers. we will have that argument inside of a courtroom, and it exposes him to a new mountain of legal peril. the first republicans are saying the quiet part out loud again. we are on, that next.

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resolved. that we call upon southern baptist to work for legislation that will allow the possibility

of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother. the southern baptist convention, americas largest protestant denomination, decided to push for legislation to allow abortion in a variety of circumstances. 1971. and they kept that position, even after roe v. wade established the right to abortions. because in the early 1970s, the religious right was not motivated by abortion. for the pioneers of the evangelical movement, segregation, even after brown v. board of education was the animating force. but a civil rights gained traction with real enforceable legislation, segregation became a losing cost. and fighting it would cost for legislations. and then this happened. >> six years in the u.s. senate

and then one issue, the one political insider said didn't matter. >> i voted for public funding of abortion, to support that, the opponent said that he would. so it was a clear cut case. in senate races. >> the antiabortion movement has political clout that surprised a lot of journalists and political analysts, who believe that those people made a lot of noise but not much difference. >> 1978 the incumbent governor, dick clark, the favorite, lost, because he was not sufficiently antiabortion. at the time, pro-life activists having that kind of political power was unheard of. and it wasn't just iowa, and minnesota, pro-life republicans won it two senate seats. they realized abortion could pull together many of our fringe christian friends. so that became the plan. take evangelicals anger over

segregation and transfer that anger to abortion. republicans fell in line. in 1980, ronald reagan campaign for president on a constitutional amendment prohibiting abortion. it is one of the issues that catapulted reagan into the white house and it became a conservative fixation, all the way through the presidency of donald trump. the man who forged a coalition with the religious right to secure and support its dollars. the president who nominated three of the justices who helped and roe last year, that president loves bragging about that particular fact. >> that i was able to terminate roe v. wade after 50 years of trying, they work for 50 years, i've never seen anything like it. and i was even, and i was so honored to have done it. >> nobody did a job like i did. including roe v. wade, bringing it back to the states. >> these days, and after yesterday night especially,

campaigning on ending abortion does not appear to be the way to win. in ohio, and virginia, and kentucky, everywhere abortion was on the ballot, voters handed decisive victories to democrats. opposition to abortion, that issue that unified right-wing religious groups beginning in the 1970s turning them into a very powerful political block, that issue can now sink political fortunes. as they did in the 1970s when they pivoted from segregation to abortion, the right will need to coalesce around another wedge issue, and soon. because abortion will likely be on the ballot again in several states next year, and that puts republicans in a real bind. we will have more on that with amy klobuchar, next. amy klobuchar, next. ok. ♪ from christmas tree mats... to floorliners... cargo liners....

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♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) with the push of a button, constant contact's ai tools help you know what to say, even when you don't. hi! constant contact. helping the small stand tall. , >> you put very sexy things like abortion and marijuana on the ballot, and a lot of people come out and vote. it was a secret sauce for disaster in ohio. i don't know what they were thinking, but that is why i think most of the states in the country can allow you to put everything on the ballot, because, pure democracy is not a way to run an election. >> that was former republican senator rick santorum saying the quiet part out loud, democracies not good for his party. it's going to be really inconvenient for republicans in 2024, because constitutional amendments to protect abortion

access are already on the 2024 ballots in maryland and new york, and about initiatives to protect abortion access to limit or to ban it altogether, initiatives that put abortion on the ballot, literally, those have been proposed in arizona, colorado, florida, iowa, missouri, nevada, pennsylvania, south dakota and washington, what a-less. joining me now is senator amy klobuchar, from the great state of minnesota. thank you for being with us tonight. i am eager to hear your thoughts. i feel like we are at the sort of combination of long and very hot fought war over what choice means. i want to call your attention to some research that was conducted by a group that was working for, effectively, republicans. the term pro-life, this group concluded, it's perceived as support for a flat ban on abortion, without exceptions. the most restrictive antiabortion position. by contrast, pro-choice is seen

as more middle of the road. that to me seems like a really big, big deal and perhaps explains what happens last night. >> sure, i think once again, the voters of this country, in some very red state defied the pundits, the fight all these predictions, and they came out and said, we want to stand up for our own freedom, whether it's the freedom to vote, but in this case, the freedom for women to make their own decision about their health care, not made by a bunch of politicians. that is what last night was about. and you look at those numbers in a state like ohio, and how that bodes, by the way, for my friend, sherrod brown, who is such a champion for workers, champion for people, and how he set up for the freedom to make your own decision about your health care from the beginning, and then you go over to kentucky, where the ad, of

course, it's governor beshear's incredible work, and how he has delivered results, but of the 12-year-old girl, who when she was 12 years old, was raped by her stepfather, and she basically looks at the camera so honestly and painfully in the searing moment and says to beshear's republican opponent. you're going to tell me, i had no options. you're going to tell me that i am supposed to be a victim of rape and carry the rapist baby. that is basically what that was about. i think my reaction to all of this is every time this has directly been on the ballot, seven times when reproductive freedom has been on the ballot, the voters, whether in kansas or ohio, or that supreme court race in wisconsin, time and time again, in the middle of the prairie, have made it clear that they stand up for freedom, and the republicans are not backing down, alex. they are doubling down on their position. >> to that end, why is lindsey

graham talking about reporting a 15-week abortion ban less than 24 hours after his own party effectively has been ended its launch on that thing? >> you just see this time and time again. national bands, you see them talking about criminalizing doctors, certain candidates in certain states introducing lawsuits such a thing. you have medical professionals saying, we don't know what to do anymore. you had the horrible case of that young girl, a victim of incest, who have to go to another state. people are watching this. they understand what is going on here. i am very committed to the fact that our party, the democratic party, is, yes, stands up for freedoms, but there are something else about last night that we have not covered as much in the last 24 hours, and that it is about delivering results. you look at what beshear talked about in his own campaign, it was a lot about infrastructure. if you're trying to extrapolate this into the next election in

a presidential year, yes, it's a bust ending up for freedom, spot is also about delivering results. my favorite examples, there is a county in eastern kentucky that governor beshear himself had lost by eight points. in the last election. he worked on a federal project they're on a roadway, and he was able to get that project and deliver for the county, and he went out, got a 12-point swing and won it by four. it's a local project. you probably have not heard about it, alex. probably have not talked about it on your program, but it is an example of what has been happening. democrats are going to be able to show with bipartisan infrastructure law that the inflation reduction act could be delivered and also on prescription drug prices, people want to hear about that, they don't want to hear about losing their freedoms. they don't want to hear about suppressing the voter, banning books. i think danica roem probably said it best in her race in virginia, when she won against all odds, first trans member

elected in the house delegates in the commonwealth of virginia. and when she won last night in her victory speech, i don't know if you saw, she said, the voters have shown that they want a leader who will prioritize fixing roads, feeding kids and protecting our land, instead of stigmatizing trans kids or taking away our civil right. that is what last night was about. >> do you at all worry about the fact that abortion is proved to be such a powerful attracted to get people to the polls, and yet, it's clear that he the economy and the basic infrastructure, bread and butter connecting the dots, in terms of policy and legislation, it's hard to do both of those things. we talk about the existential threat to freedom but also to talk specifically and in a detailed fashion about legislative accomplishments? >> i think you can do two things at once, and governor beshear proved that last night,

as did a number of our governors and members of congress, the u.s. senate that one in the last midterm. those are the polls that count. the fact that we have this list of deliverables, we live in a results oriented business, and president biden and democrats have been delivering results. people care about the fact that drugs, medicare was unable to negotiate because it was handcuffed by a sweetheart deal that the pharma companies have four into law 20 years ago, now finally, we're starting to negotiate less expensive drugs, drugs like serado and eliquis and jardiance. it's unbelievable. last year, 9 million senior spent over 3.4 billion dollars in a pocket costs, just on those drugs. those are real things, alex. i think, yes, you talk about fundamental freedoms. you have a party instead of changing its policies on the republican side, instead of changing its candidates, it's

doubling down, and then you've got the deliverables. that was the message. we keep saying when we message wrong. you can't -- i say to my republican colleagues, there is only so much you can do with a tv ad. there is only so much you can do with messaging. if your policies are off, the people are the country. are >> that is what we have been seeing, as the election result rolled in. minnesota senator amy klobuchar, it's good to see you, thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks, alex, good to be here. >> when we come back, ivanka trump took her turn on the witness stand today while her father tried to slow down one of his criminal cases, it's more of a snack. that is next. that is next the lungs and lower airways. but i'm protected with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions.

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wireless that works for you. it's not just possible. d.c. who is presiding over trump's january 6th case a deadline for trump to make a choice about whether he is going to use what is called and advice of counsel defense. joining me now to discuss is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama.

joyce, he said all of long that the lawyers made him do it, but what are the risk for trump in using advice of counsel defense here? >> right, so we saw those risk today, when the judge rented an order there on january 15th, trump asked the give notice of whether he wants to use the defense, and that notice means he's waving his attorney client privilege in these communications. he is the turn all of them over to the government, any other evidence he wants the used to establish the defense, and even asked to give them access to communications that he does not intend to use a trial but my at bearing on the defense. another words, if he has emails were he ignored advice from white house counsel or other, sees the turn all of it over. >> given what we have seen thus far from his correspondence with his lawyers, that could be deeply problematic, and i wonder how much it matters that three of his lawyers, ken chesebro, sydney powell and

jenna ellis, have all pleaded guilty in georgia to state criminal charges. how much does that matter in all of this? >> right, it really does, especially for the ones that unlike jenna ellis, but kenneth chesebro is an unnamed unindicted coconspirator in d.c.. you cannot rely on advice from lawyers, they happen to be our partners in crime. so all sorts of implications here. and a bottom, for trump to make up the defense, it's tough to figure out how he'll prove it other than by taking the witness stand himself, so we may not see him move forward with this defense at the end of the day. >> practically speaking, january 15th is the that, on that a sufficient amount of time to prepare a defense, given what he may claim? >> well, it's a smart day because trump agreed to that date in earlier filings with the judge. they avoided problems on appeal. it gives the government a couple of months. they see this one coming from

far away, and to the extent that trump wants to rely on john eastman's advice about creating fake slates of electors and telling mike pence to delay certification, government is already, i am quite confident, ready to deal with the. >> oh, joyce, there is so much to unpack, we have to leave it there my friend, thank you for closing this out with some interesting ideas about what trump might do, once he actually gets to the january six trial. that is our show for the evening. msnbc's special post republican debate analysis held by my friend and colleague rachel maddow begins right now. ins right now. >> everybody okay, everybody all right? everybody make it through okay. yes, we did. good evening and welcome to our special coverage of the third republican