in his back pocket. so that was the beginning of everything. he was very, very bright. it is witty, charming, articulate, and he was just fun. i fell in love with him. i would go flying at nighttime and i had a squadron frequency, and i would call the radio. and i would see how he's doing. and sometimes if you would be in the ready room and say who is that guy. we worked a different places, we had different circles of friends. and so when people would see as together they would kind of scratch their head and say what are these guys doing together? >> you can watch serving in secret, love, country, and don't ask, don't tell. sunday at ten pm eastern right here on msnbc and streaming on peacock. on that note i wish all of you, thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. do you at home i wish a very good night.

from all our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late also at the end of monday. e end of monday. if you are someone who is concerned about donald trump becoming the president united states, as a lot of people are, then this week has been a real rollercoaster. just go back to the beginning of the week, with polling from the new york times showing donald trump leading joe biden in five out of six cuban ground states. that sent a lot of people into a panic. but the democratic presidents chances. but by tuesday, things have changed. voters in ohio, kentucky, and virginia went out to the polls, and they delivered a resounding

defeat to the republican party on many issues. those results prove that access to abortion is still a key issue for voters. more than a year after the supreme courts dobbs decision, which was, of course, bad news for donald trump, the man who is singularly responsible for overturning roe v. wade, so much so that he regularly boasts about it to his supporters. he owns it. he claims it. on wednesday republicans held a third primary debate. the kind of thing that normally would be a big indicator of where this election is headed. but in the new surreal world we are living in, that debate came and went without much of an impact. we learned that tim scott has a girlfriend and that nikki haley thinks that vivek ramaswamy is scum. but nothing, and i mean nothing the candidates did or said in that debate seems poised to dislodge donald trump from his position as the presumptive republican front runner. then yesterday another big surprise. senator joe manchin yes, that

senator from west virginia, announcing would not be running for reelection and in fact hinted strongly at the idea that he may seek a third party bid for the presidency. that would be a move almost certainly that would take votes away from joe biden and pave a path for donald trump to win back the white house. so like i said, it is been a rollercoaster full of ups and downs in hanging over all of it and the very real stakes of this election. but unlike the ever oscillating politics of all of this, the stakes of this election, well, they have been clear from the get-go. they have remained more remarkably consistent. at the beginning of the week the washington post published a terrifying report about how trump's allies plotting to seek revenge if given a second term in the white house.

here's how the post described it, quote. trump has told advisers and friends in recent months that he wants justice department to investigate one-time officials and allies who have become critical of his time in office. trump has talked of prosecuting officials at the fbi and justice department. so once again we started this week with a report that the former president is preparing to use the justice department to prosecute his political foes, to do exactly what he and his allies have falsely accused joe biden of doing. and here we are, at the end of the week, donald trump, sitting down with an interview with univision in which he confirmed to the world, yes, that is exactly what he intends to do. >> they have done something that allows, if i happen to be president and i see somebody who's doing well and beating me very badly i say, go down and indict them. mostly they would be out of business. they'd be out. they'll be out of the election. >> that guy. the guy threatening to start

throwing his enemies in jail on day one as a very real chance of becoming president of united states again. it can be easy to dismiss things that trump says now on the campaign trail as bluster. but he is capable of following through on his promises, like's 2016 promise to institute a muslim ban, appoint justices who would overturn roe v. wade, pull out of the paris climate accords. all things that trump did in one form or another on the campaign trail and that ultimately followed through when he became president. and this time he will not be surrounded by the same institutionalist voices who tempered his winds during the first trump term, the so-called adults in the room. if trump himself is to be believed, those people, those institutionalist's, those adults in the room, will probably be in the jail or at the very least fending off executions from doldrums justice department. as susan glasser put it in the new yorker today, whatever poll you choose to believe, the data points overwhelmingly to biden sitting and near historic lows in popularity and being

centrally tied with trump, a man who is running on an explicit platform of revenge, retribution, and constitutional termination. trump has said it all before. he will say it all again. the question, with one year left on the clock, who's listening? joining me now is susan glasser, staff writer at the new yorker and coauthor of the divider, and with me former publican congressman charlie dent. great to have both of you with us. susan, i will start with you. that very poignant and timely pca right, it's a year out, but as you said, who is actually listening? you write in your piece about how the warnings about trump are getting louder for anyone

wants to hear them. why is it that being reflected in any of these pollings we are seeing right now? >> well, what is remarkable is that the polling is the warning in part. i'm really struck. i understand the need for a certain amount of self soothing in these very stressful times, but the bottom line is, it's very clear. even if you look at what the biden campaign has said, they are expecting essentially a dead heat, almost close to tide campaign next year. that's by their own account. it's truly remarkable, when you consider all the things that trump has already done, not least of them january 6th, a man facing for criminal

indictments and yet the incumbent president in the white house is expecting a race that would be essentially a dead heat with him. i'm just struck by a couple of things. the escalating extremism of trump's rhetoric and what he is saying he's going to do in a second term. it's very different than what you heard from trump on the campaign trail in 2016. instead of focusing on essentially a program for the country he is very consumed by personal grievance, revenge, and it really wasn't the univision interview was in the first time the donald trump has threatened to lock up his opponents and to essentially take the system of justice and twist to his own personal ends. he does have an attack list,

and certainly people like john kelly, mark milley, bill barr, you showed their pictures, there on the list. they're on the list. >> it's a good point you bring up about the fact that he will seep something into the conversation and then slowly say it again and again and again until we all become numb to it, which we certainly can't afford because he is saying the most dangerous of most extreme things out loud. and that, charlie, is going to put the republicans in a very difficult position. because republicans in congress have basically been locking themselves into this idea that the weaponization of the

federal government is a bad thing. that's what they have been accusing door lightning doing. adele you had their front-runner, their standard bearer, their nominee to be saying i am going to literally weaponize the government to punish my enemies. and i'm willing to bet you're not going to hear a lot of republicans condemning him or distance themselves from him saying it's okay to weaponize the government against his opponents. >> probably not, but i know there are a number of republican members of the house especially who would be very concerned about a trump candidacy as a nominee. they know he is a disaster for them in these marginal swing districts, about 17 republicans

represent the districts that joe biden won. they know that donald trump is toxic. and so with all this extreme rhetoric that susan has just correctly pointed out, it has become more extreme, more incendiary, where inflammatory, this is not helping. you combine that with the unpopularity of the abortion position the many republicans have adopted over the years, and they know they have trouble. you talk a lot about polls, as well. but there is one poll that we should talk about, at least one number. i see about two thirds of voters don't want joe biden or donald trump. there's a one is too old and one is to crazy. and based on that new york times poll that we saw last week, crazy was beating old. i don't think that's gonna be the case in a year from now but still there is a problem with the biden candidacy.

he is perceived by the public is a very weak incumbent. a generic democrat in these polls beats trump by about ten points. i think there's a lot that both sides need to look at in terms of their leaning candidates because the ground was so right, so fertile right now for these independent movements. you get rfk junior out there, cornell west, no labels, joe manchin making his announcement yesterday. so this is a very unsettled political terrain right. now >> very unsettled, susan, and joe biden was asked about the polls, the winds showing him behind. he responded by saying don't focus on just these two. he's leading in eight other

polls. do you think these polls are a genuine cause of concern? and i skeptical skeptical of the narrative that is the elections should make americans feel complacent or sanguine? explain why in what you think the public in the white house should be doing right now. >> nobody can be complacent at a moment in time when our country is so divided and evenly so. whether republican or democrat it seems to me complacency's out of order. as far as the polls go, i think, again, look at the aggregate of the data. it's very clear that biden, by almost any indicator, has been a near historic lows in terms of presidential popularity. the only president in fact it's modern polling began who has been as consistently unpopular with the american public as donald trump. and the bottom line is whether it's 39% as his approval rating or in the low 40s, this is extremely low for a president seeking reelection. my view of the polls is that they are reflecting democrats, as charlie put it, sending a message to joe biden that they are not happy with this option. democrats and independent voters, remember republican voters were already strongly against donald trump. it's not their views have changed, and that's why biden is doing well in the polls. this is a concern among voters in his own party, and it's the lack of enthusiasm that they have or wraps the concerns. i saw that james carville, the legendary democratic political consultant was asked the other day about these polls.

what do they indicate? he said it's simple. . he's too old. that's what it reflects. the voters think he's too old. it's not complicated. we're overthinking it. of course the house is going to present a spin here. but the bottom line is, this is a very nerve wracking position to begin if you're democrat. the idea that biden, with all the things that he's accomplished in his few years in office, would be locked in a dead heat with donald trump, it's pretty extraordinary. >> so to that point, charlie, on the flipside, it seems like republicans are vulnerable nature of abortion because seems that issue alone is mobilizing democratic voters across the board and even in states that one would think would normally be in support of antichoice movements in red

states like kansas, kentucky, in ohio that has not been the case. they've mobilized to ensure the right of women having a choice. should democrats be using this time before the election to tie trump in the party to those extremist wings and views of the party? >> we'll, if i with democrats i would use the abortion issue in areas where it makes sense. and in those suburban swing districts in new york and elsewhere, i believe the abortion issue will resonate. maybe not as much a new york because the law in new york is pretty clear that the law's not gonna changeup there so abortion rights are safe. nonetheless, this is real vulnerability for republicans. i've been saying this for sometime, ever since roe v. wade was overturned post hobbs. republicans in their abortion policies and positions they taken over the years will now have consequences. now they are incompletely defensive position. they really don't have a clear plan as to how they would like to proceed. and frankly, the party needs --

thank you to both of. you much more to get to tonight. calls for a cease-fire in gaza have grown louder and louder right here inside the united states. she's where protests have even shut down traffic in major u. s. cities, but what happened when a florida congresswoman tried to answer those calls for a cease-fire with a vote in the legislature? we can ask the congresswoman herself. but first trumpeted who has ruled in trump's favor previously responded trump's request to delay the trial. i promised her response is not quite what you think. i'll tell you about that next. if we want a more viable future for our kids, we need to find more sustainable ways of doing things. america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating plastic products that are more recyclable. durable. and dependable. our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come. for a better tomorrow,

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tactic, delay, delay, delay. in the past month alone he and his lawyers and run that play into separate courtrooms, with two separate judges presiding over two separate federal criminal trials. very six election interference case in the classified documents case. those lawyers basically argued to one judge that she should delay her trial in order to accommodate the schedule of the other trial, which trump's lawyers are also trying to delay. go figure. last week special counsel jack smith's team called trump out, and the prosecutors warned the trump appointed judge in the documents case, aileen cannon, not to be manipulated. after all, judge cannon had previously indicated mushy might actually consider some kind of delay. so, as you can imagine, her response to trump's delay request today came as a bit of a surprise. she actually said no. no delay trial date, or at least for now. in a new ruling the judge said that she is keeping the may 20th trial date that she set

months ago, but she did leave open the option of changing that date in the future. judge cannon plans to revisit the trial schedule during a march hearing, with trump's legal team and prosecutors and that could give trump another chance to, once again, deploy his favorite tactic, delay. joining us now is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. barbara, great to have you with us. thank you so much for making time for us. we talked about this in the past. delay, delay, delay. we see it now in the classified documents case, basically is this inevitable at this point? how do you interpret today's decision? it appears that trump's team might not expect judge cannon to grant a delay, but then you have the statement released by trump's campaign spokesperson saying we look forward to the conference set by judge cannon for next march where future scheduling matters including a potential trial date will be

discussed. trump's legal team, doesn't have reason to believe that they might get what they want from this judge? >> i think so. we don't know for sure, but as you said, no doubt the strategy for the trump team is all about delay. if they could get this pushed past the election, and if, for some reason, don trump should be elected president, he controls all the cards. he could have both of these cases in federal court dismissed. that is the name of the game here. it's hard to say. part of it is going to be dictated by what happens in the election interference case, which starts in march. and some of that case takes longer perhaps on the parties anticipate, then a delay might be appropriate. i think one tell that is revealed by the judges order is, she gave a lengthy delay in some of the interim dates. so, for example, the motion cut off date had previously been in november.

she extended that data now to february. once there is a motion cut off, that means the other side gets to respond. the filing side gets to reply. the judge that the hearing. the judge gets 30 days to decide the motion. so that's already pushing up against that trial date by moving the motion cut off date. i think that's why people are looking at this with maybe some skepticism that this is the inevitable delay of kicking the can down the road in that we may see further delay. >> what does that tell us about how judge cannon is approaching this? judge cannon, as you know, she has been criticized for issuing decisions unreasonably favorable bowl to donald trump. would you think, based on what you think about this motion timeline that is now set for february, how should we interpret that about how she is processing or dealing with this case? >> i don't think it's cause for outrage. but it does suggest that she is going to be very generous with donald trump in giving him the

time that he wants and needs. there has been some delay in receiving discovery. what a delay of a month and she gave three in exchange. and so that does suggest that she is going to permit donald trump, certainly the luxury of all the time he needs. save history with regards to an extension of the time for dealing with classified information procedures act. because classified information in this case the judge does, need to work on protocols with the parties about how he's gonna handle that, which material has to be turned over, how to handle in local court and other things. that too has been delayed. so does suggest to me that she is at least very receptive to the idea of delay and of giving don trump plenty of time to ensure that he is adequately prepared for trial. >> there was a sentence in the recent filing, a statement to the recent filing in the special counsel's team, they really stood out to me. it's really eye-opening. they write, quote, don trump

stands alone in american history for his alleged crimes. no other president has engaged in conspiracy and obstruction to overturn valid election results and illegitimately retain power. and i think sometimes we lose sight of the gravity of what this case is all about. how striking is it for a judge to read a statement, that kind of statement, in a court filing? >> well, it's very significant. it's also legally significant, ayman, because one of the things john trump's arguing in the election interference case is that he lacks fair notice that what delivers a crime. due process as you have to know something is a crime before you can be prohibited from doing it. who knew that this was frowned upon? no one's ever been charged with this before. nobody had ever done anything like this before. and so it was important, i think, to frame it legally, just how profoundly wrong all these allegations are. >> i was gonna say, on its

surface i think most americans who believe in our democracy know the idea of overturning election by force or, some kind of conspiracy is probably not legal. barbara mcquade, always a pleasure. great to talk to you. thank you so much for your time and expertise. >> thank you. >> just to come, the collegiality among florida lawmakers meets the buzzsaw of the israel-hamas war. that's straight ahead. lowering bad cholesterol can be hard, even with a statin. diets and exercise add to the struggle. today, it's possible to go from struggle to cholesterol success with leqvio. with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by 50% and keep it low with 2 doses a year. common side effects were injection site reaction, joint pain, and chest cold. ask your doctor about twice-yearly leqvio. lower. longer. leqvio® feeling sluggish or weighed down? could be a sign that your digestive system

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in the north, thousands try to flee south. a mass of humanity, clinging

onto each other, dragging themselves to safety. >> on the left side of your screen, these are images from 1948, when at the creation of israel an estimated 750,000 palestinians were forced to flee or were expelled from their homes, becoming refugees. they were then ultimately neglected by the international community. on the right, similar images from inside gaza just from this week, when an estimated 1. 5 million people have been displaced from their homes, particularly in the northern gaza strip. one of the cascading effects of that mass exodus from 1948 is that trauma lingers. the influx of refugees into neighboring arab countries is at least partly why multiple complex between israel and palestinians in those countries like jordan in lebanon continued throughout the following decades. and now the bloody conflict between israel and hamas, raging inside the gaza strip, is adding to that collective and continuing trauma. since october 7th, when israel

began its military retaliation for hamas attacks, israeli military said they have killed 60 high-ranking militants and officials. hamas is a senior military leadership remains operational. which begs the question, where is this going next? the hamas lead ministry of health reports over 11,000 people have been killed in gaza. 4500 of them children. unicef, just today, said that the lives of 1 million children hanging by a thread. and using satellite imagery, the united nations has determined that at least 45% of the housing in gaza has been destroyed or damaged. according to the associated press, residents wait hours for a gallon of brackish or salty water that makes them sick. scabies, diarrhea, respiratory infections ripped through overcrowded shelters. some families have to choose who gets to eat. some palestinians have even vented their anger against hamas in scenes unimaginable just a month ago. and israeli troops push deeper

into gaza city, local residents have reported intense bombardment in military vehicles near a number of hospitals, including in and around the compound of the largest hospital in gaza, al-shifa. the director of the hospital saying, quote, israel is now launching a war on gaza city hospitals. israeli military, however, claimed hospital was hit by a misfired projectile launched by terrorist organizations. meanwhile, in another hospital, doctors are treating the wounded, aided by only flashlights in primitive conditions. what is happening now, the unimaginable devastation and loss that is now breeding the next generation of people who will suffer. if the wounds of the 1948 generations exodus was able to ripple throughout the region, strain conflicts in jordan and lebanon in serious syria and elsewhere, producing decades of violence that ultimately brought us to october 7th and war with hamas, then what are

these images going to do for the next generation of palestinians who are still denied their freedoms and self determination? meanwhile, back here in the u.s., as lawmakers grapple with how to respond to this war, faultlines are fracturing. we're gonna try to a florida lawmaker whose expressions of support for palestinian civilians as turn into a nightmare. that is next. so have we. that's why dove body wash now has 24 hour renewing micro moisture for continuous care. dove body wash. change is beautiful. hi, i'm sally and i lost 52 pounds with golo in a year and a half. i struggled with my weight for a long time due to my thyroid issues but since being on the golo plan and taking release, the weight has not come back. (upbeat music)

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bill that is sympathizing with terrorists? >> -- >> thank you, speaker. >> i consider this bill a resolution that wants folks to humanize the flags that are being lost, the innocent lives being lost, as it relates to israelis and palestinians. >> that is democratic florida state representative, angie nixon, pleading with her peers in the florida state legislator this week, the florida house, to pass a resolution calling for a cease-fire in gaza. nixon introduced that

resolution by condemning hamas and calling for all israeli hostages to be freed. she made abundantly clear that all she was asking for in this resolution for us for the florida state house the call for palestinian civilian lives to be valued, in addition to israeli lives. and this is the reaction she got. >> there is evil in this room. [applause] we can fight them here today. if you feel for this, you are an antisemite. >> representative nixon's colleagues asked her how she could really know that 10,000 people had been killed in gaza. they implied that most if not all of those 10,000 dead were perished. and they made provably false claims like this one. >> three weeks ago, we were told, oh my god, if you don't let the humanitarian aid in, the feel in, the hospitals will be shut down, everyone will die. it's the race later, they are all still open. >> when representative nixon asked how many dead palestinians would be enough, one of her colleagues, a republican voter state representative, michelle salzman, yelled out, all of them. >> we are at 10,000 dead palestinians, how many would be enough?

>> all of them. >> one of my colleagues just set, all of them. wow. one of my colleagues just said, all of them. >> and now, representative salzman has apologized, clarifying that she meant all of them, being all of. thomas salzman also says that since that clip went viral, she has received death threats for it. discussions about how the united states should react to what is happening inside gaza are incredibly fraught all across the country. but it is a vital conversation, and so we must have. joining us now is democratic voter state representative, angie nixon. representative nixon, thank you so much for being with us tonight.

first, tell me how you were feeling in that moment, how frustrated are you by the debate that is taking place, and how productive it is. >> so, even just listening to the, i feel as though i am having some post traumatic stress because it was absolutely ridiculous, the fact that many of my colleagues refused to see the humanity in the palestinians that were losing their lives over in gaza. the fact that in the front legislator, the only reason that we called a special session in regards to having or solutions to address what was happening in the middle east, is because our governor is absent, and he wanted to score she political points because he was taking part in a republican debate the next day. instead of focusing on issues like the affordability crisis in florida and the fact that folks can no longer afford

florida. there is a 9000 educative shortage. instead of focusing on that, and the fact that there are kids kicking off 500,000 floridians of medicaid, failing to address those issues, they decided to address this to gain political points. >> i am curious to get your thoughts about how this debate is framed. as i mentioned, you condemned what hamas date. you called for the hostages to be released, and he called for a cease-fire. what do you say to the people that say by calling for a cease-fire, you are supporting hamas? that is now how the composition of the country has been framed. we even heard the former secretary of state hillary clinton say that those have been called for a cease-fire, don't understand hamas. >> look, at the end of the day, regardless of what religion you practice or your ethnicity or

your race, everyone deserves the freedom to live healthy. everyone deserves the freedom to live safely, and everyone deserves to live in peace with their families. that goes for israelis, palestinians. what kind of moral compass do we have when we are okay with thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people, particularly babies, not even able to blow their first birthday candle out, because they are dying. atrocities should not be met with more atrocities, and i was simply trying to humanize, humanize what was going on to the palestinians over in gaza.

what hamas did was wrong. they are terrace that need to be brought to justice, period. but we cannot discount the fact that there are innocent palestinians and are dying, and the fact that many of my republican colleagues, called them terrorist. it is absurd. it is only going to embolden more hateful rhetoric and also violence in our country. look, i had in august 26, i had a white, racist domestic terrorists come and slaughter three black people in my district. that had a lot to do with the hateful rhetoric that governor ron desantis and many within the republican party in florida, that had a lot to do with the hateful and anti-black policies, and anti black rhetoric that they pushed. now, if we go to do anti palestinian rhetoric, i am fearful of the palestinian americans that live in our

state. it has to stop. we need to call for a cease-fire and immediate de-escalation, the release of hostages, all of it, but we cannot discount these lies that are being -- lives that are being lost. >> representative nixon, can i ask you, why disconnect then? data from a practice poll last month showed that 66% of voters in the united states support calling for a cease-fire, but on the 18th members of congress at the federal level have signed on to a resolution to actually call for a cease-fire. why do you think that there is such a big disconnect between elected officials in this country and what the american public want? >> i cannot really speak to that. i can only speak to the fact

that i care about the people and the community. i don't know if it is special interest groups and big corporations, maybe it's that that is playing into this issue, but look, i was elected by the people, and it does not make sense for me to be in office, if i am only saying things when it is politically expedient for me, or i am only saying things to make sure that i am reelected. if i am not speaking out against atrocities, if i am not speaking out for the voiceless, i should not be in office, period. we should make sure that all who live in this country, and if you're also in congress, if we're talking about foreign affairs, everyone in the world deserves to live healthy, prosperous and safe, period. despite who we love, what religion we practice. you know, the people in our country want to see palestinians and israelis living peacefully, so we should definitely as elected officials use our voices to call for de-escalation and immediate solution to the --

a justice concerns. >> democratic voter representative angie nixon, greatly appreciate your time and insights this evening. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> coming up, we are going to check in with america's mayor. a new profile in new york magazine says that rudy giuliani is indicted, isolated and brooke. the author of that piece joins me next. oh, hello! hi! do you know that every load of laundry could be worth as much as $300? really? and your clothes just keep getting more damaged the more times you wash them.

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meeting new york city's response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and experience here that are used to mount a widely unsuccessful presidential campaign in 2008. before all of, that he wasn't argued secure taking on the mafia, as the lead attorney for the esteemed southern district of new york. but here is the thing, since allying him self with donald trump in 2016, rudy giuliani's dissent has been nothing but swift. america's mayor has found himself on the other side of the law. in fact, giuliani has been indicted on 13 counts in fulton taught the georgia for trying to overthrow the 2020 election results in that state. he also shows up as a coconspirator, coconspirator one, in fact, in jack smith's january six indictment, which could lead to more charges down the line. according to a profile in new york magazine, rudy now finds himself indicted, isolated and broke. once the toast of new york, rudy now spends his evenings broadcasting an hour long internet show from his

manhattan apartment to, i guess, a couple dozen viewers. his sole advertiser, balance of nature vitamins, that the former mayor plugs in between his rents about joe biden and, yes, the deep state. >> oh, my goodness, you can go on and on and on. no side effects to it. nobody gets an overdose from taking vegetables. this is very good for you. it is natural, it gives you incredibly big boost and energy that you would not expect, pretty much right away, maybe two or three days. it seemed to mean right away. >> as david freeland writes in this profile, giuliani was upended by virtually all of his allies after he spread lies about the 2020 election, found a new crew, populated by members of the far-right maga base, even conversations with some of the most devoted trumpist reveal a group who viewed the former mayor with a mixture of condescension and

pity. his new york law license has been suspended. he has racked up an enormous amount of legal debt, and he is staring down the barrel of a 13 count criminal indictment with possibly more to come. what is next for americas mayor? joining us now is the author that new york piece magazine, contributor david freeland or. david, thank you for being here. incredible profile. we laugh, but it's set. we have seen american politicians fall for -- fall from grace, but this has been an epic fall from grace. when you think about it, as recently as 2016, this was a guy who was worth 100 million dollars. but as you say, is now indebted, isolated and broke, how? >> operatic does not seem to cover it. he is hawking vitamins on a video blog. every evening from his apartment.

he reminds me, he is -- just a loaded, isolated, and the winds are howling around them. >> when you think about what has happened with some of the other lawyers, close trump confidants, and i would say giuliani was probably in a circle at one point or the other, certainly during the 2020 election. you look at judge atlas, kenneth chesebro, what does that portend for rudy giuliani? now he's vulnerable. it does not look like he's getting a lot of love financially or morally by donald trump. he's not helping him raise any money. what happens to giuliani? the sea flip on trump? >> he says he's not. of course, everyone says they're not until they do. donald trump is the reason for rudy giuliani's relevance. he cerebral and back from the abyss, after the presidential loss in 2008, so there is a loyalty there that is kind of heartening. >> when you think about the moment that it all went south for rudy giuliani, or perhaps,

rudy giuliani specifically with the relationship with trump, can you point to it? is there a moment where based on your reporting, you can see that relationship knows that? >> it ended at the beginning, right? he was a reluctant trump supporter in 2015, as a lot of people were. then there is nobody else returning phone calls, kind of losing relevance at the time. trump was more than his meal ticket. his companion, a supporter, the only way that he would see the game, kind of thing. >> why do what he is doing now, giuliani? this is simply for the money that he is hosting, the balance of nature vitamins that he is promoting? >> i think you can't help it. rudy at this ratio, if you remember, as the mayor, people call in, they would yell about

their whatever else. this is a natural element for him. he loves this stuff. put him in front of a microphone or camera, hilltop all night. i think you can stop himself. >> i have to ask you about some other new york city news, and that is of the current new york city mayor, eric adams, who has found himself in a little bit of a legal pickle to say the least. the investigation, the fbi ceasing's phone as part of an investigation, about wrongdoings of his campaign staffers. what can you tell us about that. it's just such a significant development. >> it's a remarkable story. we have been told earlier in the week that they have been cooperating with federal authorities. they had nothing to do with it. next, we found out that the fbi has around his vehicle, ask the security detail to leave while

they ceases phones and devices. we don't know, but at the beginning, it is not a. get >> someone pointed out that his lawyer said that he is cooperating with the investigation, but as someone pointed out, it does not seem like they are cooperating if the fbi has to come to you in the middle of the street to tell the security to step aside and grab your phones. they were afraid that you might be throwing your phone to the door. >> unbelievable. originally, the original story about the investigation, the mayor was involved. it seemed like a small detail, struck down or doing, what is this thing about anyway? now it's really big. we don't know what they're looking for. >> it's going to be one of the cases that we follow closely, reporting on for months. david, it's good to see you, thank you so much, greatly appreciate it. that is our show for tonight. it is not time to hand it over to my friend ali velshi, who is in for lawrence o'donnell, hosting the last word, hey, ali. >> you are just a few feet away from me in another studio, i have not seen in weeks. this is on tv tonight, my friend. you have yourself a weekend, we'll see each other on the weekend. >> my morning, by and early for you. >> that's right, my friend. have a good weekend. and a battle between democratic values and trumpism, trumpism is becoming a stand-in for losing.