about how funny it is that this man was violently assaulted. and he is doing this well david paper is on trial in california. yesterday he started to testify and describe what was called from the beginning, or should have been cleared to donald trump and all of his allies. he said he went to the pelosi's home as part of the bigger plot to and what he viewed as government corruption. he tearfully recounted about his political leanings went from leftist to yes right wing, after reading a comment on a youtube video about former president donald trump. he became radicalized towards the right wing violence towards the maga cult of donald trump. these are the real stakes, the the maga cult of donald trump. it leads his people to believe political violence is okay, it's desirable, their political enemies are subhuman, and you bash their head in with a hammer it's funny. this movement has gotten people hurt, and more people are going

to get hurt until the movement is stopped. that is "all in" on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. >> good evening, chris. we have in the fourth coming block a fairly robust discussion about media that is apparently changing its policies to further abet trump's lies in the contenth of what he's saying about paul pelosi and that attack. it is a combustible mix. >> it really is. thank you, my friend. and thanks to you at home for joining me this hour. before he was even elected president, donald trump had a journalists kicked out of a press conference just for asking a question. >> excuse me, sit down. you weren't called. sit down. you weren't called. >> trump looks over at his staff, a bodyguard walks over and ushers ramos out of the news

conference. >> sit down, sit down, go back to univision. the journalist trump had his security kick out from that press conference was jorge ramos, one of the most prominent latino journalists in the country. he's conducted extensive interviews with george h.w. bush, george w. bush, hillary clinton, and barack obama. he's a huge deal, but donald trump wanted nothing to do with him. ramos repeatedly and publicly asked trump to sit for an interview, and trump not only declined but he posted a photo online of a letter ramos had sent him claiming that ramos and his employer univision were begging -- begging him for an interview. trump's relationship to ramos and univision stayed icy throughout his presidency. in 2020 the trump campaign even put out this press release titled univision is not a news network, it is a leftist

propaganda machine and a mouthpiece of the democrat party. and that history is why it was so shocking last week when univision had an hour long interview with donald trump in which he was thrown softball questions like this one. >> talking about polls, "the new york times" siena poll came out this week. it shows you with a solid leading, but it also has you with 42% of latino voters support. that's unprecedented for a republican candidate. what do you think the message voters are sending with these numbers? >> now, the only thing weirder than asking why are you doing so well with latino voters is probably trump's response to that question. >> well, the latino voters are so incredible because they're unbelievable people. they have incredible skills, incredible energy, and they're very entrepreneural.

all you have to do is look at the owners of univision. they're unbelievably entrepreneurial people and they like me. >> trump's praise of univision and its owners was strange, but things have gotten even stranger. last week semafor reported three top executives of univision and its parent company were in the room during that interview with donald trump. sometimes executives just show up when high profile interviews are happening. but this week "the washington post" reports that wasn't the only strange thing about that interview with trump. according to "the post," univision canceled a booking with president biden's hispanic media director who was scheduled to respond to the trump interview after it aired. and maybe most significantly of all, univision canceled ads that had already been purchased by the biden campaign and scheduled to run during the trump

interview. univision told "the washington post" that its decision not to run those biden ads, came from an unannounced policy about opposition advertising in single candidate interviews and that there would be no trump interviews allowed if president biden gave univision an interview. so far there is no planned interview with president biden. and all week we have been getting alarming stories alleging univision has been making editorial and business decisions that seem to directly benefit donald trump. and then tonight just a few hours ago one of the network's most prominent anchors announced he has left the network. now, we should say that krauze has not yet announced why he left univision, but the timing here a day after the reporting from the "the post" about univision shifting its approach to donald trump, that timing raises some questions. because beyond the ethics questions on the table here, univision's audience matters a lot politically. last year univision had the

seventh biggest network audience in all of tv. it's the most watched spanish network in the united states. univision is the channel of choice for a key demographic in this country and one that seems increasingly up for grabs in the next election. if executives really are shifting the approach to covering trump asking softball question and not pushing back on trump's lies, that could have a real impact on the 2024 election. and univision isn't the only media company that appears to be softening its approach to donald trump. today "the wall street journal" reports that meta, the parent company of facebook, threads, and instagram, quietly changed its policy to allow ads that claim past elections were stolen. and that means that the trump campaign can and is running ads that say things like this. >> we won in 2016. we had a rigged election in 2020 but got more votes than any

sitting president. >> that ran as part of an ad on facebook in august. meta's old policy didn't allow ads that claim voter fraud is widespread and/or alters the outcome of elections. its new policy states that the platform doesn't allow ads that call into question the legitimacy of an upcoming or ongoing election. but past elections are apparently fair game. this follows youtube in june announcing it has similarly stopped removing claims of widespread fraud in the 2020 election. so feel free to -- it's unclear why a company like meta believes trump's false claim about the 2020 election being stolen is all about the past because clearly that big lie is laying the groundwork for the next election in 2024. here is donald trump yet again stoking fears about election fraud in another ad, one that is

still live right now on instagram. >> but it may also be the last election we ever have. if this election doesn't work, if this election is rigged and stolen, if bad things happen, our country will not survive. we will have become a dictatorship where your president is chosen for you. you will no longer have a vote or certainly won't have a meaningful vote, and you could say, frankly, that has already begun. >> joining me now is a national political reporter covering campaigns and the white house for "the washington post." michael, it's great to see you. thank you for being here tonight. there are a lot of questions i have about the sort of relationship that has developed between donald trump and the owners of arguably the most important spanish language channel in the united states. can you talk a bit more about your reporting? >> yeah, there were a number of unusual things.

you mentioned a couple of them. another one that you didn't mention is that jared kushner, the president's son-in-law who has not been involved this time in former president trump's campaign unlike his two previous runs did kind of intervene with the campaign this time according to our reporting, surprising some people inside the campaign to help setup this interview. and that's notable because during the trump administration one of the executives who was there when former president trump praised them at mar-a-lago was a guy named bernardo gomez who is a senior executive of tellavisa in mexico city who hosted a dinner between jared kushner and the mexican president during the trump administration. a lot of the concern about this is tel avisa has a long record

in that country. and univision when it was established in the united states very intentionally defined itself against that. it tried to set itself up as an american style news network going to talk truth to power and be aggressive. and for years there's been a give-and-take. a lot of the programming on univision are tell avisa'stela novellas which are really popular. now you have this blending which has caused significant consternation in that newsroom in miami. >> do you have insight into leon krauze who departed univision this evening. we don't know why. is it potentially related to these changes? >> we don't know why. the timing is notable. the verb he used in his statement is my time with univision is concluded.

the only statement that tel avisa univision put out simply congratulated him for his time and wished him best of luck in his next endeavor. i think this is right now a very much an open question. it is true there's been financial concerns from univision according to a number of people, there's fear of layoffs coming in the future. but there's no indication that was the reason. he's the only person as far as our reporting can tell who was let go yesterday or resigned. we don't know. and so we're -- we're going to continue to pursue that. >> and no word yet from jorge ramos who, of course, is sort of the gold standard for interviewing as far as univision's interviewers for presidential sit downs. i've got to ask about the biden ads that were polled conveniently for donald trump and inconveniently for president biden. is there a further detail on whether there's going to be a biden sit down, whether that was

part of donald trump's ask in order to give univision the sit down interview with him? >> we don't know why the ads were pulled. we do know from univision they said it wasn't the newsroom that made that decision. it was a corporate decision from above them. presumably somebody didn't like the look of an ad running like that. it is typical to have opposition ads run like during a presidential debate you'll have a democratic ad run during a republican debate, but univision set its standard here. what is interesting it's worth noting this wasn't just a normal interview. they took out the 10:00 p.m. hour last thursday, which is their highest rated hour. it's an hour fortela novellas. they promoted this rt view all that day and did it the next day. this was sort of like a network special. it was happening for -- donald trump was the leading republican candidate but is not the republican nominee for president right now.

now, univision has said they made a number of requests to speak with president biden. the biden campaign said they had not received a request until after that interview, the campaign itself and no request mentioned an hourlong sit down. i think that's another shoe going to drop, how the biden campaign and univision figure out how to move forward from this point because there's clearly a lot of anger on the biden side. >> right, anger that is complicating given the fact that biden still very much needs to speaks the univision's audience. michael, great reporting. thank you so much for being here tonight. >> thank you. it is not difficult to see why the developments at univision could be problematic for the biden campaign. according to the latest "the new york times" sienna poll it's an 8 point margin, which is fairly close given the new reporting from "the new york times" about trump's plans for a second term including his pledge to launch

the largest deportation effort in u.s. history by, quote, preparing an enormous expansion of a form of removal that does not require due process hear lgz and by creating massive camps to hold immigrants while they await removal. but there is one man who remains quite confident in president biden's re-election, the man behind barack obama's successful 2020 re-election campaign. he's with me now. and of course as we just said the man who successfully ran president obama's 2012 re-election campaign. great to see you. i first wonder what your reaction is to the news we have, the new reporting about the ways in which media, and not just univision but social media as well may be changing policies in a fashion that could directly help donald trump and certainly provide a bigger platform for his lies. >> it's incredibly concerning, right? i mean these are some of the things that happened in 2016

when donald trump got elected the first time. he clearly misused facebook and other things. there were apologies made but the damg to democracy is real. now people are hedging their bets and starting tochange policies with the theory donald trump could actually win this election. it is incredly concerning the same company are now starting to do this all over again. >> i wonder what you make of as we talk about univision and its audience of latino voters, how much the biden campaign should be ringing the alarm bells in terms of its support among voters of color. i believe it's 42% of hispanic voters leaning towards trump, 50% leaning towards biden among black voters. is that a function of trump just basically being in a courtroom most of the time and not on the

stump in a more public way saying the same sort of demagogic, xenophobic things he did for his four years as president? and is that sort of amnesia? what is that? >> oh, you're exactly right. people have forgotten how bad and crazy this guy is because he's naught been on the stage. right now biden is comparing biden to the almighty, but next year there'll be an actual choice between two candidates. until that happens, i don't think you're going to see much movement in the polls. you and i have talked before about my concern and criticism of polls this far-out. it's a year before an election. they're historically wrong. barack obama was put on the cover this week during his re-election ten years ago by "the new york times" magazine who said he had a 17% chance to win and that he was toast, and clearly he won that election handily. i'm not concerned about the polls. i am concerned we get our message out, and that's why i think the biden campaign is

doing exactly what they should be doing. they have really big bys in the african american and latino community right now and i think that's smart. i think it shows you how serious they are taking these issues. >> i want to circle back to that in a second, but you have a piece in plit quo that's basically like stop bedwetting, democrats. i'm paraphrasing here. and you talk about the x. factors, the black swan events that are inevtale somewhere on the calender next year. one of the things you talk about is trump and the criminal trials. will trump go to prison? it's possible. can you campaign from behind bars. i wouldn't call these october surprises. you can almost guarantee something big and unexpected will happen next year. the polling shows a conviction for trump would maybe be enough to swing the election to biden. how much should democrats think about that as they move forward in the coming months? >> they shouldn't. because what i learned running a

presidential campaign, alex, and being in the white house you can't plan for a black swan event. you have to control your message and do the things you have to do. what we have to do is have an economic message that makes sense, focus on turning our base out and not worry about what's happening with donald trump. we can't control the myriad trials and 92 felony counts, and you can't assume those things are going to happen. you know, some of them are going to happen, but what you can do is control your own narrative and run your own plays, and that's the kind of sugar rush donald trump presents as a threat to democrats because you could just whale away on him every single day and it's fun and makes you feel better, but it doesn't talk about what you're going to do to make the country better. and i give the president credit, he's trying to stay to that message, but it's hard. >> axios is reporting that the biden campaign is not investing in door-to-door sort of ground game strategy in the same way that, for example, barack obama did, and they're effectively

putting most of their money behind tv and digital ads. is that a mistake? >> i don't think that's going to be the plan next year. i think right now -- and i gave them this advice, too. you know, although i love the campaign i ran and we won an election, if i had to do it over again, we probably spent too much money on the ground in the off-year. and so i think they're going to hold that money. they're going to go massive ground operation next year. they have people who really know how to do this. and i think they'll do that, but they're going to do it the appropriate time. right now they're doing what i think they should be doing and talking to the african american and youth communities about what this president has done and save the ground game for next year. >> talking to some of them on channels that do not rhyme with suunivision. thank you for your time. coming up president biden takes questions on the

israel-hamas war tonight on west coast as capitol police in washington, d.c. say they are making arrests and responding to approximately 150 people who are illegally and violently protesting outside the democratic national committee building. that is next. shingles. some describe it as pulsing electric shocks or sharp, stabbing pains. ♪♪ this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles.

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i'm not a fortune teller. i can't tell you how long it's going to last, but i can tell you i don't think it ultimately ends until there's a two-state solution. i've made it clear to the israelis i think it's a big mistake they're going to occupy gaza and maintain gaza. i don't think that works. >> that was president biden in the last hour speaking about the ongoing war between israel and hamas while over in washington, d.c. outside the national democratic committee headquarters u.s. capitol police have been making arrests

responding to approximately 150 people who are protesting calling for a cease-fire in gaza. capitol police claim the protesters were demonstrating illegally and violently. nbc news has not yet verified that claim. this comes as 24 democrats in congress today are calling on president biden to seek that cease-fire. we write to you, they say, to express deep concern about the intensifying war in gaza particularly grave violations against children and our fear without the immediate cessation of hostilities and robust bilateral cease-fire, this war will further lead to loss of civilian life and risk dragging the united states into dangerous and unwise conflict with armed groups across the middle east. joining me now is one of the members who signed that letter calling for a cease-fire, congresswoman pramila jayapal.

let me first get your reaction to president biden statements saying he made it clear to the israelis saying it's a big mistake to think they're going to ocpay and maintain gaza and reiterating he believes this ends with a two-state solution. >> well, alex, i think that was important for him to make it clear israel occupying gaza is not going to help anything. it's only going to make things worse. it's not tolerable from a united states perspective, but i would like to see the president being stronger in his comments. some of his comments in the past days were stronger than i've heard tonight. i think it's important for the united states to be clear as the president has said before that israel needs to follow international humanitarian law, that bombing hospitals, bombing refugee camps, preventing water and fuel from entering gaza is

absolutely not following international humanitarian law. we know there's over 11,000 palestinians who have already been killed, about 45% of them children. we know that only 20% of the water needs are reaching the gaza strip today. we know that hospitals can't operate because they don't have fuel. we know that premature babies -- and i'm the mom of a very preemie baby, i know what that incubator does for a child's life. babies are dying because their incubators are being taken away. this is important not only for palestinians and preserving civilian life, but also for israel to be successful in being able to get hostages back and

get to that two state solution president biden is talking about. i don't think that happens through further military action. it's very important we have at minimum a cessation of activities that could lead to that negotiated cease-fire so that we can achieve peace and security for israelis and palestinians side by side. >> we have some images i think we can pull them up of capitol police in washington, d.c. they've been making arrests outside the democratic national committee headquarters. i wonder as a democrat if you can talk about what's been happening inside the party in the context of all of this. there's some democrats that have signed onto a cease-fire, it's something that has fractured the caucus. you know, we're talking -- you're a democrat talking about the democratic president. these are protesters in front of the democratic national committee headquarters. how have you seen this conversation evolve among democrats in recent days? >> well, i think it's been very

tough. i think that there are a diverse set of views on how we should move forward. i do think everybody wants peace, everybody believes in a two-state solution or some solution where israel has security, the right to exist, and palestinians have security and self-determination as well. and i think it has been extremely difficult for everybody. i would say that i think that, you know, for a lot of young people across the country, and i hope that protesters who are out there -- listen, i'm an organizer and i've protested many times but always peacefully. and i would just hope that everybody continues to remember that nonviolent protest is some of the most effective protests. and i hope that we continue to see nonviolent protests because it is part of our democracy for people to be able to express where they are. i do think the american people are in a very different place by and large than where -- where the conversation is right now in

congress. and so there are many of us who have called for a cease-fire but also many more that are calling for a cessation of hostilities, temporary pauses. in my mind these are all unified calls for an end to the violence and the ability to stop, de-escalate, and try to get to a solution that we all desperately want. and i think there are differences of opinion in terms of how we eradicate hamas but not that we must eradicate hamas. that is clear. we all agree on that. i personally think that going in and killing tens of thousands of palestinians and bombing gaza completely is not the way to eradicate hamas. you might be able to take out some leaders, but i've been having a number of conversations include wg the nsc about our experiences around the world about how you eradicate an

ideology and organization. it is not by bombing. you may have temporary success, but you're actually going to continue to push more and more people towards whatever the next version of hamas is. so i think it's extremely important that we stop, that we breathe, that we make sure that human beings are being treated -- kept alive and that we're not targeting innocent civilians, and we acknowledge the tremendous trauma and pain of both israelis who suffered a horrific attack, and palestinians who are suffering a horrific attack now with all the history that is behind all that trauma on both sides. >> congresswoman pramila jayapal of washington state, always good to see you. thank you so much for your time tonight. >> thank you, alex. still ahead this evening from throwing elbow shots at kidneys to threatening witnesses and promising to bite people, republicans in congress have been focused on aggression and infighting and a little less

focused on funding the government. we're going to have more on that with former senator claire mccaskill coming up next. claire mccaskill coming up next

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thanks to house democrats, speaker mike johnson is closer to getting the government funded for at least a few more weeks. speaker johnson managed to get a multiphased funding bill passed

thin house last night, but he needed the help of 209 democrats because only 127 republicans in his conference voted for it. just as a side note, do you remember when house republicans ousted speaker kevin mccarthy because he had the audacity to try and get something pass would the help of democrats? anyway, the senate is set to vote on speaker johnson's bill this week. and if they pass it, they would avert a government shutdown until tiktok february. in the house that bill is the only thing republicans managed to get done before skipping town today. the house canceled votes the rest of the week and began their thanksgiving break early before house republicans managed to secure the funding to keep the lights on at the justice department and other federal agencies. now, if all of this is making senate republicans look good, look no further than oklahoma senator mark wayne mullen who is fresh off his attempt yesterday to fight a witness at a senate hearing. this is what the senator had to

say today. >> i'm not afraid of biting. i will bite. i don't care where i bite, by the way. it just is going to be a bite. >> joining me now is claire mccaskill, former senator from missouri and msnbc political analyst. i too am blinking my eyes like is that real what we saw, claire? do you remember the time in the senate you had to clarify where you'd bite someone? i don't. >> no. this is -- we're into weird territory. >> yes. >> and here's what's kind of interesting about this, alex. i'm going to give you a quote. the quote is same clown car, different driver in the house. now, guess who that quote is from? it's from a republican member of the house. now, think about that. i mean i can't imagine when i was in the senate that i would go out and be that derogatory

towards the leadership of my own party. they are not a functioning majority. they are schoolyard bullies, and this has devolved into something that, you know, you don't know whether to laugh or cry because it is so embarrassing for our country. the guy with two names mark wayne or billy bob or whatever his name is -- >> senator mark wayne, yes. >> whatever. you know what got him mad. >> because the head of the teamsters tweeted a quote that said he was standing on a platform to look taller during a debate. >> the republican height obsession, that's its own television program. claire, you say you don't know whether to laugh or cry, and we're at this stage now where republicans managing to fund the justice department or other federal agencies is like a remarkable feat of partisan

organization. they have left early on their thanksgiving recess because they can't figure out how to get appropriations bills passed. this is like in the food chain of legislating, this is pretty darn near the bottom, is it not? >> it's as bad as it gets. the most important function that congress has is to appropriate funds for the government. everything works including our defense department, including veterans benefits, including social security, medicare, everything depends on appropriations. so it is really unfortunate that they cannot govern. now, what's fascinating to me is they're not moving to kick mike johnson out yet, and so why didn't he just get it all done in this first time because guess what's going to happen the next time this all comes up? he's going to need democrat votes. because these guys in the far-right maga caucus can't count. they're in some kind of la-la

land and that the senate is not controlled by democrats and the white house is not controlled by democrats. legislating is a team sport that depends on negotiation. and half the republican cot will not negotiate and doesn't want to play a team sport. >> i ask you -- you make the point and we should say it over and over again nothing gets done without democrats really saving the day for republican in the house. what should democrats do in terms of drawing attention to the dysfunction, the distaste for governing that seems to be the organizing principle of the modern day gop while also keeping the lights on? how do democrats for lack of a better term play this one? they've got to save republicans but also show the american public this is the dna of the grand ole party. >> well, they're going to have to keep being as strong and united as they have been. listen, we had some

disagreements in our party. you had all the guests who highlighted the fact that everyone doesn't agree on exactly how to deal with this horrible middle east conflict that has plagued the world for decades. but you notice that almost all the democrats voted together on this resolution that's going to keep the government open until after the first of the year. save thing's happening in the senate. there might be disagreements of policy in the senate, but nobody is threatening to fight somebody, and in the democratic party, hats off to the leaders in the house and the senate of a democratic party that has managed, which is not always easy to keep the caucuses united. and i think that helps the contrast. on one side you've got the marjorie taylor greenes and the crazy caucus. on the other side you have a pretty united front about not cutting benefits to middle class, making sure the government gets funded, making sure that the least of everyone

doesn't get left behind. those are the things they've been good at. and if they keep it up, i think the contrust will become more and more clear as the election gets closer. >> well, nobody on the democratic side of the aisle is threatening to bite anyone of yet, so that's one point in their favor. senator claire mccaskill who never had to threaten to pbite anyone ever as far as we know, thank you for your time. >> you bet, alex. thank you. coming up the latest legal news coming out of fulton county, georgia. that is coming up. stay with us. , georgia. that is coming up. stay with us

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since she somedited donald trump and 18 others in a sprawling conspiracy case fulton county, georgia, d.a. fani willis has so far managed today persuade four of those defendants to plead guilty in exchange for lighter sentence. but that leaves 15 people who still face criminal trials. and despite reporting there are some defendants on the verge of flipping so far, nothing doing. something happened in court today that might change all that. you might recall as the original 19 codefendants turned themselves in for arrest and processing, 18 of them posted bond and were released right away. only one of them, a man named harrison employed, spent five nights in the fulton county jail until he successfully posted bond. floyd, the former head of black voices for trump, is one of a trio of codefendants including a

publicicist and a pastor who allegedly pressured election worker ruby freeman to admit to election fraud that she did not commit. freeman and her daughter shaye moss had been baselessly accused. the publicest in this trio finally managed to get ruby freeman to talk to her. you can hear them here in the background of police body cam video as she gets harrison floyd on speakerphone. >> in the end ruby freeman did not mr. floyd's high level authorityative powers to realize

this was all a scam to help donald trump steal the election. today d.a. willis filed a motion to revoke harrison floyd's bond agreement citing several interviews and social media posts that allegedly violate conditions of floyd's release. prosecutors cited an interview on a podcast as one example of that where mr. floyd trash talks one of his former codefendants who has now flipped, attorney jena ellis. and then there's the fate of mr. floyd's social media posts directed at ruby freeman, ones allegedly containing excerpts from down at that police station. as fulton county judge mcfae sides with the d.a. on this harrison floyd will have to go back to jail to await trial. meanwhile his alleged coconspirators here have remained markedly defiant. he talks openly on social media

about the headline making experience and suggesting she would be trump's next press secretary. and then there's mr. stephen cliff guard lee. you can see him here in police body cam footage after ruby freeman called the police on him in december 22. mr. lee who calls himself america's chaplain saying, quote, i'm not going to plead out to a lie. i'm not going to cooperate with evil. this is the lord's battle, and we've got to fight it. we're going to have more on the upcoming and ongoing battles down in fulton county as the attorney for yet another codefendant issued another big mea culpa in court today. former fulton county assistant d.a. melissa redman joins us next. istant d.a. melissa redman joins us next

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judge, in being transparent with the court and to make sure that nobody else gets blamed for what happened and so that i can go to sleep well tonight, judge, i did release those videos to one outlet. and in all candor with the court, i need the court to know that. >> that was the lawyer for misty hampton, a former georgia elections official and one of donald trump's current codefendants admitting to the judge in fulton county that he was the one who gave these video

confessionales from the state's election interference case. he was the one who gave them to a news outlet. that admission ended the who done it about the leak that prompted d.a. fani willis to request an emergency protective order. during today's hearing judge scott mcafee gave a not so subtle indication that he would grant that order saying the case should be tried and not in the court of public opinion. that order is expected to come as early as tomorrow morn. joining me now is melissa redman, fulton county deputy district attorney and msnbc legal analyst. thanks for being here. i have a question in speaking to prosecutors in and around town, would it have been possible for d.a. willis to wait until a protective order was in place before circulating discovery materials like these proffer videos? >> well, that was a conversation i'd have to say former deputy district attorney of fulton -- it is possible and it actually

came with the speedy trial demand earlier i believe in october that the request was made for a protective order to go along with the discovery but they wanted to provide it at that time as soon as possible and subject to the court's pretrial order of deadlines when the discovery to be provided. ask we know that trial never happened and there was no further conversation to my knowledge about the protective order until these videos were released. yes, i know it was anticipated at the time the discovery would provide or would include sensitive material that should be subject to a protective order and just appears that the actual issuing of the protective order never happened or the hearing about whether the protective order should be issued never happened. and then we have this leak and the parties in court now reaching an agreement that i believe we all can agree that there are some things that should come out in court and not

leaked to the media prior to the trial. >> can you talk about what the practical implications of what an agreed upon protective ord will mean for a bombshell piece of evidence like the ones released today the media? >> well, we have to remember there are still 15 defendants left in this case, and there's still a possibility some of those defendants may be contemplating a plea that could also entail a proffer. and you don't want those people to be inidated into not entering a plea or not giving a proffer out of fear it'll be released to the outside court again, you want that to play out in the trial. you want there to be a determination from a judge as to what evidence is admitted, and you don't want evidence out in the either that may or may not be put before a jury going to

decide the guilt or innocence of these individual. >> one other question. jack smith is probably interested to a lot of this material especially that pertain to the fake electors plot. will he have access to some of this discovery material, or is it church and state on that? >> well, if there's a protective order, it's going to apply to everyone. and there may be some conversations as to how other investigations are implicated and in that protective order. but i would imagine if the judge -- when judge mcafee issues a protective order it's going to apply to the state as well as the defense. >> all right. that means jack smith is going to have to get in line like everybody else. former assistant d.a. down in fulton county, thanks for your expertise tonight. >> thank you. that is our show for this evening. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. trust and verify as the old saying goes. that's where i am. and, you know, we're in a