trump are so close in the polls, and in addition to that is when we look at enthusiasm for joe biden, we're looking at the numbers and we're not seeing the enthusiasm that you would want to see. on the flip side, donald trump has a lot more enthusiasm than the folk who is do approve of him. this is something that would not maybe have a democrat vote republican, but may make them stay home. >> victoria defrancesco soto and brendan buck, some alarm bells there for both paies. and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show on social media @mitchellreports. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. >> good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. the verdict is in on congressman

george santos and the findings are jaw dropping. in great detail, his colleagues on the house ethics committee report that santos blatantly stole from his campaign, sought to fraudulently exploit every aspect of his candidacy for personal gain, and that his efforts were propped up by a constant stream of lies. santos now says he will leave congress when his term is up, but could he be forced out first. plus, israeli soldiers carrying out targeted attacks and searching what's left of the al-shifa hospital even as hundreds of palestinians lay wounded and dying inside. the military says there is a, quote, well-hidden terrorist infrastructure inside the hospital complex. where is the proof, though, as international condemnation over humanitarian concerns escalates further. , and here at home, heated war protests have led to violent clashes and confrontations and the death of at least one man, 69-year-old paul kessler. today news that a suspect has

been arrested in that death and that he could face felony charges. we've got the very latest on that coming up as well. but we begin with that shocking turn by embattled new york congressman george santos saying he will not run for re-election, but his days in office could end even sooner because moments ago we learned the house ethics committee chairman will introduce a resolution to expel santos from congress tomorrow morning. that announcement follows the release of the house ethics committee report just hours ago, concluding there is a substantial evidence santos violated federal criminal laws. santos had long been defiant in the face of questions surrounding his finances, and in a long social media post calls the report a disgusting politicized smear. the committee is now referring its findings to the justice department. he faces nearly two dozen federal charges. santos' republican colleagues have said they've had enough as they lead the effort to remove

him. >> george santos is a fraud. he should not be a member of congress. >> my district is right next to santos' district. my voters and i are quite aware of the fraud he perpetuated. i don't need an ethics report to tell me what i already know. >> reporter: joining me now is nbc's ryan nobles, matthew dowd, former chief strategist for the bush/cheney 2004 campaign and senior msnbc political analyst, and eugene daniel, "politico" white house correspondent and playbook co-author and an msnbc political contributor. good to see you all, gentlemen. so ryan, what more do we know right now? this has been a wild and fast-moving set of events. >> you're right, chris, and you really do get the sense that the damn is starting to break for george santos and his time in congress could quickly be coming to an end, in part because this report is just so unbelievably damning, and it comes from a bipartisan committee made up of both republicans and democrats where they exhaustively looked

into santos' background, his bank records, and revealed a lot of things that we didn't even know despite the long list of criminal indictments that santos is facing. among them, that he used his campaign account to pay off his own personal credit card, that he used it to pay his personal rent, that he was using it to go on websites like only fans and to shop at designer stores. these are all things that are in clear violation of congressional rules and also campaign finance rules as well. and as a result, this is a report that's being forwarded to the justice department that could likely lead to even more criminal charges for santos, and it is now starting to get to the point where you see members of congress now saying that it is just time for him to go, and there's an expulsion resolution that will be introduced tomorrow morning by the chair of the ethics committee, and we're starting to see republicans and democrats say they will support that resolution. among them, the ranking democrat on the ethics committee, susan wild, who said in a statement today, the ethics committee report speaks for itself, and i encourage all members of

congress and other interested parties inclung and especially the people of new york 3 to read the entire report. i intend to ve yes on any privilege expulsion revolution that's brought forward as the work of the committee is now complete, i'm no longer obligated to maintain neutrality as a member of the ethics committee. it's important to point out that any vote would require two-thirds of the members of the congress in order to kick george santos from office, as an example of how many are starting to lean in that direction, congressman ken buck on msnbc with andrea mitchell last hour, he has previously been opposed to any expulsion resolution saying that george santos was due process in this situation before he voted yes. he feels that this ethics report is an example of that due process, and he will now vote yes on an expulsion resolution. ken buck just one example of many republicans who are starting to come around to that way of thinking. there's a very good chance, chris between thanksgiving and christmas that george santos is

removed from congress. chris. >> ryan, thank you very much. matthew, i wonder what you make of this. i think when everybody woke up this morning, the prevailing wisdom was simply that there's such a tight majority for the republicans that they didn't want to upset the apple cart. this does, as i said, seem to be moving awfully quickly. >> yeah, i think the report brings such clarity to it that all of these things we -- many of us knew, they laid it out in a way that's not only ethics violations, it's actually breaking the law, and a complex scheme of law breaking in the course of this. i think george santos, the idea that george santos stands up today and says i'm just not going to run for re-election. to me, it's like a guy that's pulled over for reckless driving, drunk driving and speeding and tells the police officer, says just let me off, let me continue driving, and a year and a half from now i'll stop driving or i'll give up my driver's license in here. that's the problem. and i think republicans at this point are going to be forced to

have to deal with this, even though, as you said, they have a slim majority in the house. i think it's such overwhelming evidence presented by a bipartisan committee that i don't think they're going to have much choice but to kick him out. >> there's another numbers game here, eugene, as well. for months a block of first term republican who is represent those moderate districts in new york and who are worried about their jobs, they've wanted santos out. they've tried to get him out. they don't want to be tainted by him. they're worried about that, and i wonder if part of this, besides the fact that this is a scathing report, members are simply convinced that the potential for a downside long-term losses aren't worth this short-term one seat potential hold. >> yeah, it was too embarrassing. george santos proved too embarrassing for house republicans. and really, for the body at large, right, there are even democrats who voted against expelling him last time who are

also flipping and saying this time they will vote to expel george santos whenever that vote comes to the floor. i mean, so much has happened in the republican conference over the last 11 months, but george santos has continued to be an embarrassment for the conference. you know, you talk about marjorie taylor greene, a lauren boebert. no one has really accused them of all the things that we have seen both in the investigations that reporters have done and to george santos, the kind of obfuscating and lying and adding things to his biography that don't seem to be true. but now seeking to exploit every aspect of his candidacy. accused of stealing from the campaign. deceiving donors, all of these things, and at some point, republicans are saying that point seems to be now. we're not taking this anymore. we know that things are tight. but things that oe seen at this point doesn't seem to fix

the issues they have deep in the conference when it comes to the voting of things. they just needed one vote here or there. so i think they've just decided there's no more george santos that they want around. and frankly, as they look to 2024, trying to keep the house and frankly, the presidency, they're trying to find ways to show that there are some adults in the room in the republican party, and george santos is no help in that effort whatsoever at this point. >> matthew, let me read what some of eugene's fineolleagues at "politico" wrote. they say the report finds that santos, quote, spent campaign funds on botox tatments and lavish atlantic city trips with his husband. it also details the new york republican's efforts to obscure his money trail as he sought to build a fictional financial narrative on official records. when a bipartisan panel find unanimously that a member acted, these are their words, beneath the dignity of the office and brought severe discredit upon the house, did speaker johnson

have any choice? does he just have a different approach than speaker mccarthy had? what do you think happened behind the scenes to make this turn? >> well, i actually think the committee, the ethics committee did the work they were supposed to do. they did it in a slow, methodical way. i know a lot of people wanted him expelled earlier. i was always the one that said we ought to at least go through some due process. i think they went through that, which i think you give them a lot of credit for in that, and so my guess is there's a bunch of republicans that kept him in office and behind the scenes were like praying to god that this ethics committee report would come out in the way they thought it would, which it now has, which gives them an excuse to go in this. the other part of this that i think is a bigger problem in this is that the idea that george santos entered congress is a real sign that republicans have lost any guard rails of keeping these kind of people out of office and not carrying the

republican banner. they're going to deal with them in this way. it's really in the aftermath of the fact, and donald trump is a sign of this, the aftermath is they no longer have people that are in control of the process, so people like george santos end up in office. >> yeah, the campaign committees have got to be taking a look at what they're thinking about for next year right now. eugene, among the other findings, he inflated six personal loans made to his own campaign for $3,500, but said they actually totaled more than 80,000. it details purchases from hermes, sofora and a website known for adult content. most of us have never seen anything like this, this extensive, this brazen, this bold. but then again i'm looking at why some of these folks might vote not to expel him. he would be the first to be expelled without having been

convicted of a crime. do you see that as giving some folks a reason not to do it? >> yeah, i think it's something that people are thinking about, right? always in these decisions as these folks are going to vote, they're thinking about what's the precedent that we're setting, right? like that's when they kicked mtd off of her committees last in the last conference, in the last -- there was a lot of conversation about do you want to set this precedent, we saw that used against democrats. so there are definitely people who are going to be thinking about that. i think largely folks feel like there was due process here, maybe there wasn't an actual conviction, he has been indicted by the doj. this piece of -- this long report that we've seen is clearly due process. it was a long investigation, done by both democrats and republicans in a way that i think most people are going to see as something that they can go home and tell people and go to bed and say i feel good about

my vote here, and again, a lot of this is going to be about this is just too much. he's only -- this is his first year in congress, and it's only been -- he doesn't seem interested in legislating. he has spent, according to this report, all this money and in trying to enrich and use his name and the fact that he was running for congress to change his own person. according to the report, right, that is something that members of congress don't to want see, they don't want the american people to think even lower of members of congress, like matt just said, you know, getting into congress is a problem. it talks about how people don't vet the candidates like they should be doing anymore. it also speaks to how little resources on state and local reporting, right? some of the stuff are things that could have been found before he even walked into washington, d.c., but that wasn't the case, and i think a

lot of lessons learned across the board here. it also is a reminder that we are seeing a lot of people on the republican side coming up in kind of like the donald trump school of deny, obfuscate, lie, but it doesn't work for everybody, right? it has not worked for george santos in the way that it worked for donald trump, and i think george santos seems to have -- be learning that the hardway. >> let's see if the lessons are learned by the folk who is make these decisions. next, growing demands for evidence from the israeli military about the existence of hamas headquarters under gaza's largest hospital. we're back in 60 seconds. back is alice loves the scent of gain so much, she wished there was a way to make it last longer. say hello to your fairy godmother alice and long-lasting gain scent beads. part of the irresistible scent collection from gain! right now get a free footlong at subway.

like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. right now in gaza, the main hospital on the strip is at the center of increasing controversy. idf soldiers are combing through al-shifa for a second day today

looking for proof it is a secret command headquarters for hamas. but as "the wall street journal" puts it, they face growing pressure to justify their raid on the medical complex. president biden unequivocally backing israel saying he is absolutely convinced that hamas has a command center under al-shifa, a move he called a war crime. this is the latest on evidence from an idf spokesman. >> we have already found 300 that go into those tunnels, most of those booby trapped, including in the vicinity of that hospital. now, some of these have been also closed by hamas, and others will be revealed when find them. >> so that's the key phrase, right? revealed when we find them. no direct evidence suprtg israel's claim of an underground te. as "the new york times" puts it, what israel fds or doesn't in the hospital could affect

international sentiment abo the invasion and influence negotiations taking place on freeing more than 200 hostages being held by hamas. so as soldiers pore over each building, hundreds of patients and doctors remain trapped inside with nowhere to go. the director of the al-shifa complex told al jazeera, the hospital is completely surrounded, the occupation has hit the main water line. the conditions are tragic, and those in the hospital are screaming from thirst. even the law of the jungle does not allow the inhumane conditions that al-shifa hospital is currently experiencing. we are fighting death minute by minute. nbc's erin mclaughlin is live from tel aviv. that is the question at the heart of what a lot of people are talking about. is there proof from the idf that there are hamas tunnels, hamas headquarters under al-shifa?

where does that stand? >> reporter: well, chris, it's first worth pointing out that we're limited in terms of what we can say. the picture that we can paint in terms of what's happening at al-shifa hospital right now, a near communications blackout is being reported impacting what appears to be the entire gaza strip after pal tell, which is the main telecommunications provider for gaza ran out of fuel for its backup generators, posting on facebook, there is a quote, complete disrfter the fuel entry has been banned and all backup power sources have been exhausted to operate the main elements of the network. so we have been unable to reach any number of doctors that i have been talking to over the past few days to get their take on what is happening inside the hospital, what we know of what is going on right now is limited

to what the israeli military is saying. a spokesperson saying that for the second day israeli special forces have entered the hospital. remember, this is a massive hospital complex. so there's a lot for them to go through. they say they're going room by room, floor by floor, building by building looking for evidence of a hamas terror cell. we know yesterday they published these videos showing the hamas weapons they allege they've found as well as other items that tie materials inside the hospital to the october 7th attack, although we have been unable to verify those findings. nothing so far, though, to suggest the kind of command and control note that both the israeli and u.s. governments allege is buried deep beneath the hospital, but the search continues. meanwhile, the doctors that i've been talking to, i spoke to the director of the burns unit just yesterday, and he was painting this desperate picture as well as denying that hamas exploit

the hospital. he said he was an irish citizen. he moved to gaza six months ago, if he felt that hamas was exploiting the hospital, that he would leave, and of course now he can't leave because the israeli military has fully encircled the hospital. they're not letting anyone in or out, and medical staff inside say they are desperate at this point to be evacuated. the united nations says it is trying to facilitate that evacuation, but no signs the hospital is going to be evacuated anytime soon, chris. >> erin mclaughlin, thank you for that. i want to bring in mark polly ma rop lis, former cia operator and msnbc national security and intelligence analyst. intelligence clearly is at the heart of this, right? i mean, president biden has not hesitated to express his concern to israel about civilian casualties, but he was pretty unequivocal yesterday about israel's statement saying that they were going after hq of hamas. here's exactly what the president said.

>> one thing has been established is that hamas does have headquarters, weapons, material below this hospital, and i suspect others. >> he called the existence a war crime. what might lead the president to make a statement that forcefully, and when might we see the evidence? what do you suspect the evidence is? >> so there's no way president biden makes a statement like that without having the intelligence community come to him with some pretty conclusive evidence. now, "the wall street journal" reported that this was signals intelligence, and that's pretty specific. but i think that you're right in the last segment in that the credibility of both israeli and u.s. intelligence is on the line now, and while yesterday did show that hamas was using the hospital, this is when the israelis, you know, the video of the weapons caches, uniforms, laptop, et cetera, so that is technically a war crime. but i think that the israelis

are going to have to come forward with additional video, concrete information to corroborate the notion that this was a massive command and control node for hamas. so ultimately, the u.s. -- president biden yesterday bought the israelis some more time, gave them some more runway in terms of the siege of the hospital, but i think the international community is going to want a bit more, and that's what, you know, we're going to see in the days to come. look, the israeli special operations forces are still going through this. >> one of the big concerns that's been expressed is there had been reports there were hostages being held right underneath or in the vicinity underneath the hospital. and i think a "washington post" reporter joined my colleague last hour and talked about their reporting that there might be a tentative hostage deal with hamas. here's that report. >> right now my understanding is that hamas has agreed to let go

at least 50 -- president biden said last night, 50 to 100, so we don't know exactly how many we're talking about, but the decision apparently now rests with israel, which is not particularly interested in having a pause at the moment. it's not clear what their answer is going to be. i think they're under some pressure from the americans and other supporters to move ahead with this. so we're all just waiting to see what the answer is. >> in addition to that, mark, the times, "the new york times" is reporting that under the deal these 50 hostages would be women and children. they spoke with three israeli officials. what's the calculation for israel in this in taking this potential deal? >> so first of all, this is, you know, right back into my old world of intelligence. you have cia director burns who is traveling through the region, shuttling back and forth to various countries as well. here's where it actually stands. that while the contours of the deal are, you know, are pretty

much set, the conflict has to do with the degree or the amount of the pause. israelis in essence, have agreed to three days while hamas wants five days, and five days for the israeli military sounds a little more like a cease fire that would give too much time in the israelis' view for hamas to regroup. so that's where i think the sticking point is. from the israeli standpoint, one quick piece is that the israeli cabinet, the war cabinet is going to ultimately -- this, and there's incredible pressure from the families of the hostages to get them back. i wouldn't be surprised to see some deal reached because of that pressure, not just from the americans but the israeli families, the israeli public. five days is a long time. that's really the sticking point. that's where we're stuck right now. we'll see how much the israelis believe they can stomach in terms of the pause. >> we're just getting some breaking news in, marc. the body of yahudit weiss who was abducted by hamas, was

extracted by idf troops from a structure adjacent to the al-shifa hospital on the gaza strip they say, was transferred now to israeli territory. the structure in which he was located was also -- they also say they found military equipment including ka lish na cough rifles and nrpgs. talk about the significance of that, but also in the context of these negotiations for the hostages. >> of course this is a tragedy if one of the hostages lost their lives. going back to what we were talking about previously, this is more evidence that hostages were in the vicinity of al-shifa, that there were additional weapons, and i think the israelis will certainly release that. you know, the last point on the hostages, of course, is that, you know, while all of us really want to see a favorable resolution, this is really still a very complicated situation. and, you know, i think we ought to brace ourselves for both perhaps some good news with some

hostages released but also some really tragic news that hostages have lost their lives already and that some of this will be just recovering bodies. >> well, certainly our hearts go out to the family of mr. weiss, unspeakable tragedy that these families have had to endure. thank you for your expertise. always love having you on the program. let's go to d.c. now where an investigation is ongoing today after a pro-palestinian rally outside dnc headquarters turned into a free for all overnight. take a look. >> what happened man? >> they pepper sprayed us. >> demonstrators clashing with

police leading to half a dozen injuries and at least one arrest. what made this particularly dangerous is that a number of lawmakers, including minority leader hakeem jeffries were inside the headquarters when the violence broke out. they had to be evacuated. democrat brad sherman said some demonstrators were actually trying to break into the building. i want to bring in nbc's gary grum grumbach, what more do we know about what happened? >> reporter: protest organizers vehemently deny the idea that anybody was trying to get into the dnc building last night. they say they were holding a peaceful vigil with about 200 people. they were locking arms. they were singing. they were chanting. calling for a cease fire in gaza when they say police came and took some serious force and they say attacked them. they did know that the democratic leader hakeem jeffries was inside the building with a number of democratic members and democratic candidates, and all that's left here behind me now are bike

racks that block the entrance to the dnc, and dozens of these plastic candles that were used as part of the vigil. the damage has really been done. as you mentioned, 90 protesters say they've been injured, six police officers, capitol police have been injured. one of the protesters was arrested for assaulting a female officer. chris. >> gary grumbach, thank you for the update, much appreciated. we have breaking news out of california, a suspect has been arrested in the death of a 69-year-old jewish man who suffered fatal injuries during dueling pro-israel and pro-palestinian rallies. you can see paul kessler here. he is laying on the ground after police say he fell and hit his head follow ago confrontation with a pro-palestinian demonstrator earlier this month. the 50-year-old suspect has been booked on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter. his bail set at $1 million. next, the fulton county prosecutor wants bond revoked for one of former president

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in georgia, the judge in the election interference case is trying to answer a question today that will shape the rest of that trial and potentially others. when does a defendant's right to free speech cross an unacceptable, even potentially

dangerous line? two separate motions deal with that question. in the first, judge scott mcafee this morning gave the d.a. what she asked for, issuing a protective order barring the release of some discovery material in the election interference trial in georgia. he called the order, quote, necessary and justified by the particular circumstances of the case. just yesterday an attorney for one of the defendants admitted he leaked videos of prosecutors' interviews with former defendants turned witnesses, believing it would benefit his client, but fani willis said it was an intimidation tactic. meantime, we're waiting for what mcafee would do about a motion to revoke bail for one of the other co-defendants in georgia. harrison floyd is a former aider of the group called black voices for trump. the state said floyd violated the terms of his bond order 17 times through the release of videos and tweets. they argue each one constitutes an act to intimidate known

witnesses and direct communication with known witnesses violating conditions of his release. i want to bring in nbc's blayne alexander who's following this all from atlanta, danny se van danny cevallos is with me on set. what's the latest on these two issues facing the judge? >> what's so interesting about this and the way you laid it out is that d.a. fani willis has essentially put them under the same umbrella, even though they are two very different seeming issues, these two protections are necessary because she's trying to push back against what she is calling witness intimidation. let's start with that protective order, in response to those videos coming out and being made available to news media. she says that was witness intimidation. judge scott mcafee issued an order saying okay, this is a protective order. it was a compromise. it was what the d.a. was asking for, but with an asterisk, it was modeled after something one

of the co-defendants proposed basically saying that the d.a.'s office has to go through and flag what they believe to be sensitive material, that there won't just be a blanket protective order over all items of discovery but rather the d.a.'s office has to say this is sensitive. that's that first bucket. now, of course if somebody is to release information that is deemed sensitive and subject to that order, then of course they would be in violation of that order and they're subjected to a possible punishment from the judge. now, as for the harrison floyd situation, we're still waiting to see what judge scott mcafee is going to do. we suspect there's going to be a hearing in this matter as well, in which case we'll hear the back and forth in open court or he could issue an order. certainly the big question there, though, is what exact sli going to be done, and also it serves a purpose from the d.a.'s standpoint of putting the other co-defendants on notice saying she very much takes it seriously, anything that she believes amounts to witness intimidation, and she'll take

action against it, chris. >> blayne alexander, thank you for that. let's start with where she left off with the harrison floyd, former leader of the group black voices for trump. 17 times according to fani willis he's tried to intimidate witnesses. how will the judge decide this? >> on the one hand, prosecutors and judges take witness intimidation really seriously. this is exactly the kind of thing that can get your bail revoked pretty quickly. in the case of, for example, a direct person to person contact. this judge is grappling with what all the judges in all the trump cases are grabbing it with, balancing the first amendment right of someone to speak about their case against the safety of witnesses involved and the right of the public to a fair trial. that right to a fair trial is not just the defendant's. it's also the public's right to a fair trial. and this is not an easy balancing test in this case. the judge is going to look at the actual content of the words and the context, and he's going

to have to make a tough call, whether or not this falls within protected speech complaining about your case in which every criminal defendant is allowed to do is or reaching out directly in such a way that constitutes a direct threat to a potential witness. >> do you think part of this decision that he has to make would include if i do this, it's going to send a very pointed message to others who are involved in this case that they cannot cross the line. . >> sure, but the problem of entering an order like this or revoking bail is it really only gives clarity as to this particular kind of speech. that's the challenge with all first amendment cases. no two sets of speech are exactly the same, even when they are the same, the context could be different. so yes, this would send a message that you can't go out there and intimidate witnesses through broadcast, but at the same time, just change the words a little bit. change the context, and maybe something else is just a defendant saying i'm getting a

raw deal, which is protected speech. >> we'll wait and see what he decides. thank you, danny cevallos. right now, more than a dozen people are running for president, but a new poll found that seven in ten independent voters still want somebody else. so what are the chances a new candidate could, would swoop in and capture voters' attention? we'll be right back. rs' attenti? we'll be right back. s ♪ iphone 15 pro, your husband deserves it! ♪ (mom) carolers? to tell me you want a new iphone? a better plan is verizon. (vo) black friday starts now. turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today.

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so here's a sobering message for the dozen candidates running for president. a strong majority of independent voters who will be key to the next election don't seem to want any of them. a new quinnipiac poll shows 72% of independents, even 58% of democrats want other candidates to join the field, and while this is just a snapshot in time, it does capture just how volatile the presidential race is right now. quote, polarized on virtually every major issue, but restless

for change at the top, voters say when it comes to the 2024 lineup, there is room for more. let's bring back senior msnbc political analyst matthew dowd. matthew, seven in ten is a big number, but is this just the usual grumpiness that can often affect voters a year out from election day, or do you think it's a real sign that they don't like these folks, maybe they won't vote at all, or if a new candidate were to move fast, there's an opportunity to catch fire. >> well, we enter in these phases a lot, this mythic third-party person, this thing that we've gone through so many times. i think to answer your question, it's probably all of that. i think there's general grumpiness. we're at the point in time where there's a dissatisfaction, and at some point in time there's going to have to be a choice made next year in the aftermath of the primaries and all of that, which look like right now it will be a choice between donald trump and joe biden.

the problem is we have two very, very unpopular candidates that are likely to lead their parties. donald trump and joe biden. we've had -- we've faced that before, this reminds me a little bit of 2016 where we had two unpopular candidates. there was this effort that we need a third party, it never came to fruition, and then we ended up being an extremely close election. it's also a little bit like interestingly enough 1992 where the same alt of independent voters expressed they wanted another candidate. they didn't like bill clinton or george bush at the time, in june of 1992, ross perot led the field. he was in first place in the field. that all came apart, the reality of his candidacy voters looked at it, which often happens with third parties. in theory it's a nice thing, but in reality it sort of falls apart, and my guess is we're going to see a lot of that. but until both candidates, donald trump and joe biden secure the nomination -- and

that's a key point -- that people are constantly going to be looking for this mythic candidate that they think is going to represent their interest, and in the end it's going to be choice between two unsatisfactory candidates. >> it also shows this poll that this is a very tight race, it's within the margin of error, right? you've got a bunch of over candidates already out there, in a five-way race, rfk junior gets 17%. cornell west and jill stein each 3%. a lot of folks think jill stein hont hillary clinton the election. and that's not including joe manchin, where does that leave us? >> well, it's fascinating to me, first off, counsel your viewes, -- viewers, chris, just list ing a candidate that they're

going to be on the ballot in all 50 states, none of those candidates are likely to be on the ballot in all 50 states. rfk jr., cornell west and now some movement by manchin, they're all three independent candidates, somebody going to have to come to a conclusion or some entity is going to have to come to a conclusion who represents that. you can't have all three candidates on the ballot in the ballot situation in each given state. so i think we're going to see this kind of back and forth, back and forth, back and forth in the course of this. it is highly likely that we will have multiple candidates running besides donald trump and joe biden, and the unfortunate thing is i don't think they're going to win, they can't win when you look at the way that unfolds an election, a third party right now can't win because of the infrastructure against them, but they can basically keep the candidate's popularity down in such a way that we could have a president elected with 38% of the vote, and that isn't

necessarily a good thing. >> yeah, matthew dowd, we'll talk about this again, 38%, terrifying. up next, what the biden administration's new agreement with china means for clamping down on the illegal supply of fentanyl into the u.s. the director of national drug control policy will join me next on "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. s jansing reports" onl on msnbc carolers? to tell me you want a new iphone? a better plan is verizon. (vo) black friday starts now. turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon.

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between president biden and chinese president xi jinping to crack down on chemical companies in china that produce chemical precursors to fentanyl. deaths from that drug have been skyrocketing here in the u.s. re than tripling since 2016. the data also shows an alarming increase in children. up a staggering 182% from 2019 to 2021. joining me now, dr. rahel gupta, thank you so much for joining us. what does this agreement with china accomplish as the administration continues its efforts to count down on this epidemic of fentanyl deaths? >> thanks for having me, chris. as you know, this is an important part of president biden's unity agenda for the nation, but at the same time, it is important that countries like china step it up, and this agreement is an important part of bringing china into the fray of making sure that they're stepping it up of their own

chemical industry, and in fact, we have information to know they have just done that right now, which is send a notice to all of their chemical industry to say basically cut it out, we're going to enforce the rules and regulations, and the last time they did this in 2019 the shipments of fentanyl stopped almost to zero coming, but instead, this precursor chemicals began to ship then to mexico for the production of fentanyl. we like the fact that china has taken action. we want to work with them as part of the agreement and the counter narcotics working group. we want to make sure that we have strategies and policies aligned. so we can be effective, not just in the united states, but across the globe. and china needs to demonstrate that as a global leader. >> there are people who have said, look, in the past, china has made agreements to help the united states with this problem. more resources for inspections and such things. but then, beijing had run into difficulty, right, and clamping down. so how confident are you, how confident is the president that

china will pull off what they say they will? >> well, we know that when china wants to take action, it can take action and make things happen. we also know that it's the will, and china to be a global leader needs to act as a global leader. at a time when the synthetic drug threat is a global problem, we have more than 120 countries and international organizations that have come together to solve this. china is not part of that. we welcome china to become a part of that. at the same time, we need china as the largest supplier and shipper of these illicit chemicals to produce drugs like fentanyl to do what it can, and this counter narcotics working group, you know, china unilaterally pulled out of this a long time ago, and this is the time to bring it back, and i'm glad that, you know, president biden has pressed on president xi to do this. we're glad this is happening.

this is a good first step forward. >> understanding that this is just a first step, and we only have a minute left, what else is at the top of the agenda for this administration to deal with this problem? >> well, one of the things is the other side of the coin is to make sure that we get people the help they need in terms of anecdotes like ma na loeksen, t administration has sent funding into the community to help people when and where they need that help. we need to have businesses step in and have recovery friendly workplaces, knowing there's over 20 million americans today in recovery. the majority of whom are employed gainfully. this is an important part of both looking at one side of getting people the help they need which the president is committed on, and making sure we're making treatment more

accessible and illicit drugs less. >> dr. rahul gupta, thank you so much for being on the program. still ahead, raf sanchez on his journey inside gaza and the firsthand look he got at the struggle for civilians to make their way to safer ground. their way to safer ground. ♪ when better money habits® content first started coming out, it expanded what i could do for special olympics athletes with developmental needs. thousands of bank of america employees like scott spend countless hours volunteering to teach people how to reach their financial goals. it felt good. it felt like i could take on the whole world.

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jansing reports." right now on the ground in gaza, our nbc news team is getting an in-person look at the civilians escaping devastation in the strip. our team describes it like this, what israel calls a humanitarian corridor feels like forced displacement for fleeing palestinians. and back here at home, protesters shut down san francisco's bay bridge, calling for a cease fire in the war. just miles away from where president biden is due to speak any minute now. the fbi and police are scouring upstate