♪ oh oh, surfing, surfing the wave ♪ ♪ all the girls are surfing the wave ♪ we begin this hour be the breaking news. the former first lady rosalynn

carter has sadly died. she was 96 years old. she was widely credited for expanding the role of first lady to an open partner both in policy and international travel. becoming a trusted advisor even in an era where the press would call her, solely mrs. carter. and president biden said time and time again during the four decades of our friendship, through rigors of campaign, we always felt the hope and optimism of rosalynn carter. she will always be in our heart. joining us by phone is washington and foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. it's great to have you with us. i'm sorry it has to be on such a sad occasion. i know we have had an

opportunity to interview rosalynn carter as well as jimmy carter on a multiple of occasions. talk to us about her before the white house, during the white house and after the white house. >> thank you for this opportunity to celebrate a life of service and love. great compassion, great love for humanity after the white house waged what they called a war on peace. traveling the globe. going to africa, doing their best to cure river blindness and habitat for humanity. i interviewed them when they were mid-project for habitat for humanity.

rosalynn carter has known jimmy carter since birth. because her mother was the midwife. they married shortly the dale after his graduation. he has been in the submarine force. and served under admiral rick over in creating the nuclear submarines that are now the mainstay of our nuclear force. submarine force. but all along she was the wife, the mother, the grandmother, the great grandmother. partner from a peanut farm business that dove right into politics when he ran for office. and then became governor then president. they had ups and downs in the

white house as you know. their presidency was haunted in the final years by raging inflation. by the iran hostage situation. and still she felt very stropblgly that she was a great president. the work he did was just ground breaking. people didn't talk about mental health problems. especially not people in politics. and she just dove right in and made it a signature issue. she also created really the whole profession of care giving because until then, people would be care givers for hire. but there really wasn't a profession. she professionalized it up until now. all through life they were

just a devoted passionate couple. passionate in their 77 year love affair. having last celebrated their anniversary publicly and their 75th anniversary with big celebration plans. but in returning home, being home from hospice which they announced just days ago she was really in declining health. she had announced her dementia. he issued a statement that president carter will be devastated at the loss of his life partner. >> it's definitely going to be a massive loss for him and the country. and how she redefined that role. andrea mitchell thank you so much for your thoughts and insights on this. i'm joined now by kate anderson broward. the grace of america's first ladies.

and gil who was named to the carter cabinet. jill, i will start with you. can you tell me as women were becoming more vocal. you yo about her activism surrounding the equal rights amendment. >> it's one of the things i remember her best for is fighting for the equal rights amend. i'm wearing a # jill's pin honoring for that activity. which never came to fruition, not yet. i'm still hopeful. she also changed the role of the first lady. she's the first one who had an office with a staff. she actually left the residence with a briefcase and went to work. andrea said many times partner. she was not just his life partner. she was his political partner both in the white house in the

gubernatorial races, but also after the presidency when she really worked with him on has -- on habitat for humanity. and carter for peace. she really was a definite partner for him. she was much more political. she really had political instincts and he really didn't like politics. so she gave him advice on politics. i think she will be remembered for changing the role of the white house of the first lady. and also for all of her activities. mental health was her major cause and she made it something we talked about. she fought to make sure that it was an insurable illness in the same way that other illnesses were covered. i think she deserves credit in her own right. not just as the first lady, not just as mrs. carter but as rosalynn. >> kate, you have spend years studying and writing about

first ladies in this country. one of the foremost experts in the country about first ladies and the role they occupy both in our public and political spaces. reflect on what you learned about the remarkable life that rosalynn carter lived and her inprint on the role of first lady, imprint on the role of first lady. >> one of the things i loved talking to her about is the criticism she would get for sitting in meetings. and she told me, i realized i would get criticized for everything i did, so i might as well do what i wanted. she was called the steel magnolia. she said she didn't mind that nickname because steel is tough and magnolia is southern. one thing that surprised me when i interviewed her and

president carter this was in 2018 about president trump. he said reagan lied to us too. i'm not sure this is much different. and rosalynn just kind of teasingly hit him on the elbow and said, you know this is very different than what ronald reagan did. i kind of loved that, that she could be herself. and just speak forthrightly. be honest and that's one of the great things about rosalynn carter. >> reporter: jill, the carters they've always been considered ahead of their time in so many ways on so many issues in this country. whether it was climate change, mental health. justice, prison justice and social justice. you were the first woman to serve in your role. talk to us about the significance of carter appointing you and do you

think rosalynn carter helped that move with her husband skwr-tz i don't -- >> i don't know that but i deeply believe it. he was terrific about women. he appointed a lot of women to high level positions in the administration and to the courts. he was very, very good about that. the women in the administration formed something called the old girl network to complete with the old boy's network to give ourselves some support in a time when, women were very, very few and far between in high level positions. it's certainly opened a lot of doors for me. i love the position, i loved the military officers that i got to know and the issues that i had to deal with. i do think that women sometimes bring a different viewpoint to it. and so i think this is all really important and i do think that, rosalynn had some impact on her doing all of this and i'm very grateful for

her on that. they also had a son who lived in evanston where i am and so i got to see them many many many years later. at the wedding of their son. and they were so much in love. they were so happy together, and they really brought a new definition to partnership in a marriage. i know that president carter is going to be devastated but he is surrounded by his loving family right now. and i know they will stay with him. >> reporter: let me pick up on that point. their partnership and marriage. shortly after rosalynn died this is what the former president said in a statement. rosalynn was my equal partner on everything i had ever accomplished. of course they're the longest married couple in presidency.

they were inseparable in every sense of the word. >> inside the white house, i was told when they would want to talk about something that was kind of controversial they would speak in spanish to each other around their chief of staff and their director because they didn't speak spanish. so they kind of had this private language, literal private language together. they would read the bible every night to one another. he had said, president carter said marrying her was the pinnacle of my life. then to her honesty, they talked about hard times in their marriage. when he made the decision to move from new york to move back to plains to take over the peanut farm after his father died.

he didn't ask her for her opinion. she sat in the car the whole ride from new york to plains and didn't say a word. and he said that was the last time he didn't take her into account. and she would have a list of suggested questions for them to ask her. this is a woman who was shy. she was nervous when she was public speaking. she took classes on how to improve. so she really blossomed in the role of first lady which was beautiful. as jill said she became the political power house. she's the one who wanted to have this meeting at camp david. that was so very successful and important to this day. she deserves a lot of credit not only for the softer things that we think of the east wing. you know. the christmas and the easter rolls and all of that. she was actually a political partner to him.

and she insisted on weekly lunches in the oval office so she could go over the things she wanted to talk to him about. so she could be a voice to him from the american people. she was incredible. >> she was incredible and it was a beautiful partnership both in politics and most importantly in the journey of life. thank you so much to the both of you. i greatly appreciate your thoughts and reflection on this. ahead, we're going to shift gears for a moment and talk about the political headlines in in country and the far right conspiracies leading to real life. to real l ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced

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i've said it before and i'll say it again. words have consequences. it's an old saying that have become more important. depape an confronted a sleeping pelosi asking where's nancy. thankfully the speaker was in washington at the time. in his testimony, losi recounted those early morning hours from the moment depape barged into his bedroom to his call to 911.

his opening the door to police just before he asked depape and then saw him get hit by a hammer. when the prosecution asked pelosi what he remembered next, he said, quote, waking up in a pool of blood. and depape said he had spent hours listening to you tube videos from right wing figures. it was that diet of right wing conspiracy that depape -- that led depape to violence. depape's testimony offers a chilling reminder of the real

life impact that the far wing media ecosystem has. it often serves a conspiracy theory petri dish. and professor at all legal analyst and cohost of the strict scrutiny podcast. it's great to have both of you with us. melissa give us your thoughts here. both of the counts that depape was convicted on, required depape to prove that his intent included pelosi's position in congress. and depape's lawyer argued that his intentions were holy unrelatable. although he targeted her as a leader of the democratic party. are you shocked that the defense didn't pan out as they thought it would? >> well, this didn't go very well for the defense at all.

ismael ramsey from california made a pretty clear case. this was about the fact that no -- that pelosi was the head of the democratic party. they only spent about six hours deliberating about this. which is pretty quick work all things considered. again this is a northern california jury. i lived in northern california for a long time. it's not the case that jurors are inclined to spend a long time deliberating. they came back quickly.

>> after his attack, you still have lies and conspiracy theories about pelosi. now that there's a conviction and those lies have been debunked in a court of law, will those conspiracy theorists finally learn their lesson. >> i wish i could say i believe they will learn their lesson. as we saw after january 6th. even people after the election were certified for joe biden that people continue to believe these conspiracy theories. they believe that they're after certain folks. it's really discouraging because i don't know what act of violence i hate that we have to say that will have a wake up call on a lot of these people that are very much influenced by the dark web. by these conspiracy theorists that they are actually

committing acts of violence against the speaker and they're still not learning their lesson. they're still holding to that and these websites, beyond the websites, some of the right wing media including fox news continues to skew these conspiracy theories that they know ratchet up the space. has already been researched that it will be even more violent than what we saw in the past. we're concerned these aren't telling people to stop. they feel more emboldened. >> we're still grappling with it, melissa. this brings up a question for

me about these conspiracy theorists that led depape to violence. is depape solely responsible here or can they be brought to law. >> there's already a lawsuit that's been filed against members of fox news on the ground that during the election. when one fox news operative tried to push back on this idea that there had been rampant electoral fraud, he says he's retaliated against in his job. and that the company was so intent on pushing this narrative in order to resinate with their viewing base, that they ignored what he viewed as the truth and all evidence suggesting that any kind of voter fraud was glancingly rare in that election. we're going to find out. we've already seen some of this. fox has been held accountable for defamation. but obviously this is a bigger problem. a bigger problem of a really

polarized media topic. >> it's one thing to talk about media and conspiracy theory. as we enter the final year before the presidential election. including from some of the parties leaders, including the potential front runner could lead to more violence of this nature. >> i am extremely fearful. especially as someone who travels throughout the country and i go to places that you know these voters are never going to get that information on television. how violent they can be. how much they believe it is their quote unquote duty to act out whatever it is that they're here donald trump and beyond donald trump. there's members of congress who are members of the republican party they are seeing other people who had different opinions as their

enemy. and instead of having a civil conversation, instead of actually letting the ballot box where they decide issues different. they are taking the law into their own hands. atz we -- as we see it, as donald trump continues to rise in the polls and as the justice system is trying to hold him accountable. he for some reason gives this base even more of a feeling that they should take justice into their own hands. i'm very concerned. i know the people who are going to be engaged in the election cycle next year are also very concerned as well as the news media. >> all right, we're going to have to leave it there. appreciate your time this evening. new details on a possible deal to release hostages from gaza as called for a cease-fire grows louder.

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breaking news today, two sources have confirmed that negotiators for the united states, israel and hamas are close reaching a deal to release some of the hostages taken during the tober 7th terror attack in exchange for a pause in the fighting. but the sources warn that the deal is not finalized and could still fall apart. here's deputy national security advisor john finer on meet the press earlier. >> what ill can say about this point is some of the outstanding areas of disagreement in a very complicated negotiations have been narrowed. i believe we are closer than what we have been for quite some time. maybe the closest we've been to getting this deal done in this whole process.

>> joining me, senator. hostages still remain captive inside of gaza. they have called the hospital a death zone. the civil order in gaza is collapsing, it is a humanitarian crisis in every sense of the word. do you think it is time for the biden administration to call for a cease-fire? >> so first it is good to be with you. and i know you've talked about the passing of rosalynn carter and i do want to extend my condolences to the carter family. former first lady was a great example of the humanitarian. and i have called for and continue to call for a humanitarian pause to get desperately needed humanitarian assistance to the palestinian people in gaza. two million people, half of

them children, running way short of food, water, medicine. we need more cooperation from the government of israel in getting fuel in enough quantity across the border. we can do that securely. we need to open the shalom crossing. i wrote a letter to president biden asking questions about the assistance going tpwarz. f orward. because we want to make sure that assistance aligns with u.s. values. we're looking for a public response from the president to the questions we laid out in that letter. >> senator, what do you say to critics who argue that a humanitarian pause would simply just allow for a relief in the conditions that we outlined. then would allow the resumption of killing of innocent palestinian women and children during this conflict

without necessarily releasing the 240 hostages. >> well first of all, we should immediately have the hostages released. but amon, after the october 7th horrific hamas attacks on israel leaving over 1,000 dead. 240 hostages. i think most people support the objective of ending hamas as a military threat to israel. and ending its governing control over gaza. if we hoped to have any chance of a light at the end of this very dark tunnel, it will not be possible. if hamas continues to pose a threat to israel. that issue is distinct from how this war is conduct k-d. conducted. because you can agree on the objective as i do but still have huge concerns about the way the war is conducted. both in terms of the humanitarian crisis and the

objective seize of gaza and the unexpected high level of civilian casualties. we do know that hamas does. when you see for example a 2,000-pound bomb dropped on a refugee camp in order to target one commander. that is not minimizing civilian casualties. so i think this is why again a majority of the senate democratic caucus wrote to president biden saying that we have some questions here we're looking forward to their response. >> and speaking of how israel is conducting this war. let me just play for you this

audio about whether or not israel is following international law. >> are you confident they are following international law? >> what i can say is it is not our position. certainly my position as a policymaker to play realtime judge and jury on the question of any particular instant. when we see things that concern us, we raise them. we have done that during the course of this conflict. >> what does it signal to you that you have a white house. a white house that says they will not be drawing any lines for israel in this war. and a white house that will not come out and say that israel is in compliance with international law. >> there are two separate questions there. one is the legal question. but the other is the statement made by the white house national security spokesperson saying when asked if there were any red lines for israel for the benjamin netanyahu

government said no. which is another way of saying anything goes. anything goes cannot possibly be consistent with u.s. interests and u.s. values. we have an obligation and a duty to make sure that u.s. taxpayer dollars are spent in a way that's consistent with those interests and values and certainly, the fact that we're not able to get more humanitarian assistance into gaza is a big big problem. which is why one of the things we said in that letter to president biden is we needed more corporation from the benjamin netanyahu government in order to get the supplies in. in order to open the shalom crossing. look just last week there was this whole question of getting desperately needed fuel into gaza. to help with these plan, to help hospital generators keep going. to help people stay alive. and for a week, the idf had

cleared a procedure for doing that in a secure way. it was the benjamin netanyahu coalition that continued to block it. and even know they've only allowed a trickle in. so you've got, you've got a coalition here that consists of benjamin netanyahu and then some extreme right wing people. bengavire, bengavire being the party of successor in the kahanas party that was on a u.s. terrorist watch list. it cannot be the case that we say there are no red lines for this coalition. >> let me ask you about the interests here for a moment that you described. the making sure that israel in compliance with values and interests. politico is reporting that democrats in the house and senate are discussing how to create conditions for military aid to israel. this according to two party

members one in each chamber. your colleague, senator sanders released a statement shortly after politico was responding for an end to indiscriminate bombing and pause in military operations among other things. do you, agree with that position. do you support that position and more broadly speaking not just in the context of this war, should israel's receipt if you will be put into writing. >> when the united states is providing assistance to israel it's done in a manner that is consistent with our values and with our interests. and we want to work with the

president to make sure that that's the case. look, the president has sent two carrier groups off the coast of israel. something i support to try to discourage and defer escalation in the region. the president has asked for billions of additional dollars of assistance to israel. so we need to be asking these questions, and i will say, amon, that we've seen the president's request being continuously rebuffed. so for example, the president calls for a three day humanitarian pause a few hours ago. that was shot down by prime minister benjamin netanyahu while secretary tony blinken was in jerusalem. two states, two people living

side by side. where palestinians can live in their union of their own. benjamin netanyahu shot that idea down. what we're asking the president is to keep saying what the united states expects. it's another thing to insist that some of our priorities are fulfilled here. so that is a conversation that we want to have with the president. look if you look at the united states assistance. it's not a blank check and it should not be a blank check for any country including the benjamin netanyahu, vengavere coalition. >> senator chris van holland so here. greatly appreciate it as always. >> thank you, good to be with you. republicans nonexistent house majority. i will speak with brendan boyle in just a moment. undetectable,

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house speaker mike johnson avoided a potential shut down by the skin of his teeth. it was again democrats who saved the day and speaker johnson by supplying almost unanimous support for his short term funding bill. as put by the atlantic's tuesday vote. republicans may hold more

seats than democrats but they certainly don't control the house. and how did the far right respond to this effort? exact lip as you would expect, by seeking retribution just one day after the bill passed. americans voted for an appropriations bill. to come up for debate on the house floor effectively tanking the gop bill. congressman andy boyle warned this could keep happening. i think it gets bumpy from here on out, he said. anything and everything is on the table. branning me brandon boyle of california. he's the ranking member of the house committee. it's great to see you. thank you for making time for us tonight. it hasn't been that long since speaker johnson has assumed the gavel. is the honey moon period over for him already? >> mike johnson has the most

difficult job in america. that is attempting to be a house republican speaker over a republican conference that has no idea how to govern. both times that we have avoided a house shut down, it was democrats that put the majority of votes. back in late may, earl little june it was the democrats who put up the majority of the votes to raise the debt ceiling and avoid what would have been a catastrophic default the first in american history. so mike johnson is in trouble the same way kevin mccarthy is in trouble. the reality is too many house republicans are just not interesting in governing. that means whoever occupied the office of speaker when they have the majority will have a problem. >> yeah and to your point about the similarities between mccarthy and mike johnson. one of the common threatings is matt gaetz. matt gaetz says the move to oust mccarthy is perhaps going

to repe itself with speaker johnson who may face quote a similar fate as his predecessor if me fails to pass a bill in sufficient time. why is it the republican party who has this entire week is holding the party, while kápbt they put the. >> at any point this year we only immediated fiver sol c alled republicans to join with democrats to get legislation. time and time again they have been offered every single opportunity and every single time the moderate republicans have sided no.

other kpwáeufing the way t he -- other giving the way the house has reacted. >> are we going to see continued chaos. do you seeing this bill signed in february. or are we going to see. >> until the end of this year or wait until the next. >> i am confident we will continue to see house reactions. the problem is it doesn't matter if it's january or february or next summer. we know what a final deal is going to look like. .

it's going to look like a bath soap that was given to the church. it's not just a handshake agreement, it is law. given that the final agreement that passes in second -lg will look exact limb like that which passed already in june. >> let's talk about the threats of violence that we saw last week on capitol hill involving republican congressman tim and ken mccarthy and mulen. very bizarre exchanges taking place. what's the if skwhr-tz as a --

i watched a lot of that where i thought it was the sort of dysfunction and bad blood that has really been brewing. house republican on house republican. really over the last 10, 11 months then as we saw with senator mullen obviously orsly corner to thesore of the hotel. chip mentioned. he can't get dim cattic

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