watching l this, how they're reacting, quickly? >> they think he is an embarrassment to the whole institution, but at least he is an embarrassment with an r behind his name. i think the fellow new yorkers don't like any association with george santos. but he is a useful foil for democrats to point out that this is what you get with the republican majority. they argue all the time that this majority has basically done nothing except fight amongst themselves. the floor debate we just played for almost an hour a perfect example of that. >> gentlemen, thanks for stick arounding and waiting as we watch that debate on the floor again. >> was unlike anything i've ever seen on the house floor. the ethics chair alone getting up and laying out those allegationsay was a sight to behold that will do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hey, everyone, it is 4:00 in new york. i'm alicia menendez in for

nicolle wallace. with the stroke of a pen and just a handful of words, a former president of the united states once again under a gag order, intended to curb the damaging effects of his rhetoric. the court of appeals in new york has attempted to remove that gag order in the $250 million civil fraud trial gwens him, his family and his business, the trump organization. the according to rejecting the argument put forward by his attorneys that the gag order was unconstitutional. that means donald trump and his attorneys ared prohibited from making public statements about the staff of judge arthur engoron. the decision by the appeals court had come in while court wasession. the judge let trump attorneys know the gag order was back in effect and said, o quote, i intd to enforce the gag orders rigorously and vigorously, and i want to make sure the counsel informs their client the fact that the stay was vacated. according to abc news, chris

kise replied. we're aware. it's a tragic day for the rule of law, but we're aware.e to what george engoron said, quote, it is what it is.t donald trump taking full advantage of this day on the gag order, repeatedly attacking judge engoron's aide. it was incredible detail just last week. new york court officials detailed a tsunami of threats againstsuhe clerk. nbc news reports that officials found that, quote, the clerk's rsal information, including her personal cell phone number and pernal email addresses have been compromised resulting in daily doxing. she has been subjected to on a daily basis, harsing and disparaging comments and antisemitic tropics. reportedly she receives 20 phone calls and 30 to 50 messages a day on socia media. half of the threats she received in the days after the gag order was temporarily lifted were antisemitic in ednature. officials added that the threats

were, quote, serious and credible and t not hypotheticalr speculative. and that is where we start today with "new york times" investigative reporter susanne craig and co-host of the msnbc podcast how to win 2024. and claire mccaskill. and lisa rubin and democratic strategist and director of the public policy program atir hunt college, baswell schmeichel. is the gag order over, legally speaking? >> i think so. i want toea explain to our views how the gag order took effect to begin with. the stay was imposed because trump essentially appealed it. but he didn't appeal it in a traditional dway.tr he filed a lawsuit against judge engoron. he asked for a stay while that lawsuit was pending. that's what was denied today. the lawsuit is technically stilt pending, but there is no way for it to be resolved before this trial is over. so practically speaking, this gag order cannot be lifted, will not be lifted until the

expiration of this trial, and even closing arguments in january.on o unless trump tries some sort of wild legal maneuver that i can't anticipate right now.an but the expectation is for the rest of the trial, trump and his attorneys cannot make public statements. now the two gag orders are a little bit different. the lawyers can still talk about corporate, but what can't talk about isn the confidential communications between the judge and his law clerk. trump cannot talk about courtroom personnel at all.m it will be interesting to see if the attorneys take advantage of that minor difference. >> what would that look like? >> it could complain, for example, about her partisan political aactivities, as they have in open ticourt.y that has nothing to do with her sitting next to judge engoron on the stand exchanging notes with him, whispering to him. those are the confidential communications he has forbidden them from talking about in court or outside of court. but there is a whole lot of other stuff they say exemplifies

her bias that still technically speaking is fair game. and it will be interesting to see chris kise, cliff robert and the rest, if they exploit that i distinction. >> so trump team, they tried to argue that this gag order was r unconstitutional. remind us of what their legal argument was and why it failed. >> their legal argument -- >> oh, i'm so sorry. >> i want you too. sue, you start. >> i think we should let lisa go. not a lawyer, but lisa can chime in on this, but a large piece of it was a first amendment issue.a they're saying that it impinged on his first amendment rights. and i think it's important to remember that the first amendment iso not an absolute right. there are limits on a it. andts especially in this case. he is a defendant in a civil proceeding, and i think what er limited. donald trump is still free to gt on and say how much he hates the judge. he is still free to go on and talks about he hates the attorney general. he can do all of that. it's a very limited gag order

just placed on making comments about his clerk. >> talk to me about the limitations of the gag order. what do you fear most given the limitations of the gag order? >> the gag order is just about the courtroom personnel, right. and so what i fear is that donald trump will pivot, as he already has, to talk about people who aren't covered by the gag order. and that includes everyone from letitia james, who has experienced anas onslaught of horrifically racist threats and demeaningth comments about her,o judge engoron's own wife, who has beenow accused, the court system, and she says falsely of posting a number of political content on twitter. she says she doesn't have a twitter account, but laura miller has accused her of making a bunch of really partisan posts about trumpis himself. trump has amplified those by th reposting them on truth social and calling the judge's wife a trump hater who is essentially the lady macbeth of the situation, whispering into one

ear as the law clerk whispers in the other. >> here is the thing. trump wants it both ways, right? there is a value to him in being able to sell a narrative to his supporters that his first amendmentpp rights, and he will argue to them, incorrectly, their first amendment right as well is being violated. >> so there are two tracks here, right. one is the narrative he wants to spin. and you're absolutely right.ntan that narrative is assistant, that he is the aggrieved, that his first amendmented rights ar being taken away from him. f this big government and this big judicial system oddly enough. there are a lot of other folks that talk about the unfairness of the judicial system. but he is using it for himself to say that everybody is coming after me. he needs that. because it is something i've talked about on this show o before, that call and response. why is that so important? because whether it's coming from donald trump himself or his acolytes or his lawyers, that action of calling attention to an individual and saying that this person has somehow offended

me or aggrieved me elicits a significant and hopefully not but potentially violent ll response. >> yeah. >> and that -- that should makea us all quite afraid, because there are folks out there that whether it's coming from him on the mountaintop, so to speak, yelling with a bullhorn, or it'h coming from any of his, like i said, acolytes, there is -- it's intended to bring a response.o so i'm glad that the gag order is in place. my worry is that he doesn't need to be the person saying it.in >> claire, we've seen the number of threats, the clerks, the judge, they received. it'sdg staggering. the nature is staggering. the fact that law enforcement is saying these are credible threats. do you think a gag order is enough here to make it stop? >> well, i have a feeling this judge is going to enforce it vigorously like he said. now the question is what can he do beyond fining him.

and at what point does the fine actually make a difference to donald trump. i think it's important to remember too,th alicia, why doe he need to go after the clerk? >> yeah. >> therecl is absolutely no evidence that this clerk has done anything but her job. it is her job to communicate with the judge. it is her job to sit in the courtroom so that he can check with her about issues as the cases is ongoing. there is nothing she has done that warrants these kind of attacks. and now without any basis, they're going afterou the judge wife. who does this? and why? i wish his supporters would think a minute.d he can say all he wants too about the state of new york going after him.k he can even go after the judge. nobody is saying he can't be critical of the people who are bringing this case or deciding this case. but what kind of guy goes after a wife and a court employee without any basis? it is so damning to his character.

>> i want to just piggyback on claire's point, he goes after these folks because he doesn't think they're going to push back. he doesn't think they're going fight back. >> well, he believes they have no resource. >> oh, they have recourse. i want to elevate, you raised her name, and others have, tish james. because the attacks that have come on herat and her office in actuallyd carrying out officia business is staggering.ge tish is an elected official. so there is some of that she is going to take and accept as a public person. but when you talks about the judge's wife and the clerk, these are not people who have said i want to be the public face of x. they're not intended to be. they didn't intend to be publicn individuals. so the factte that trump and hi supporters are going after people who are not necessarily in the public eye, they are just public servants trying to do a good job is what's so threatening to so many people that want to be engaged in the system, but are concerned about all of what comes with trying to

take on donald trump. >> you've told me as you sat in the courtroom and watched this, you have a sense of where this comes from. >> yeah, i have a sense of doom when ia watch this. there are people who -- you and i havele talked about this privately. there are peopleis who comment myho twitter thread about this trial with popcorn emojis, for example, and i don't find it the least bit entertaining. i find this trial bad, a sad commentary where we a are in americary and who we choose to elect as our leaders given this person's history. but i also find it alarming and scary toin watch these lawyers interact with the same law clerk that they have accused needlessly and baselessly of a partisan bias that is not necessary.no yes, yes, the principle law clerk has made political contributions. but she is also a person who has been a candidate for statewide office. she has tried to run for judge several times. there is no j showing that in doing erso, she has run afoul o

state ethics rules, much less any law. and so the danger to her, the danger even to the attorney general, the prosecutors, who are career servants who come in and out every day with armed guards, there are so many people in that courtroomar that you mit think are secret service, but actually, they are protecting a variety of constituencies. andy the people that i'm worryg most about are people like the principle law clerk and the wifa who don't have any security apparatus or governmental entita protecting them here. >> to say nothing of the institution itself, which is really what is under attack.t i do want to ask you, because there were some other developments in this trial. trump is under what is called enhanced monitoring, a court appointedg, monitor found $40 million in cash transfers.h they weren't disclosed, but should have been. why does that matter? >> the monitorship is designed to prevent the trumps from basicallyfr siphoning off asset of the companies that are defendants in this trial and moving them to other places

before relief can be awarded. they were supposed to under a prior order make sure that any cash transfers or expenditures above a certain monetary threshold were brought to her attention so she could approve them. that's the whole point of a monitorship. it's basically putting someone on top b of a ceo of a company a ensuring that that person has control of what's going on. but they didn't with respect to about $40 million of transfers, 29 million of which were for tax payments. barbara jones, who is the monitor and a former federal judge says she now has received a kwat explanations for that, but the e fact that they haven' been forthcoming with her even when she has been a receiver for more than a year at this point, or almost a year at this point is alarming. it's a group of people who don't learn and are unabashed in their willingness to violate court orders. the gag order or even one, with respect to their corporate governance. >> sue, i want to stay on this point. what do these transfers say

about trump's finances? >> you know, there wasn't a lot of detail given in the filing in the main one that obviously caught my attention, a lot of people's attention was the $29 million payment. it was, you know, said it was for taxes, and we understand it could be income tax. that's a big number for donald trump, for somebody who for most of his life has lost hundreds of millions of dollars and has rarely paid income tax that could have beenme a few things. we've seen in his taxes, "the new york times" obtained his " taxes. we havein a lot of visibility io his taxes and his finances. it could be quarterly payments that he waspa making. he may get them credited back later. and it b also could have been a tax payment tied to the proceeds from the sale of the old post office hotel in washington, which his family sold in 2022. and according to documents that this trial, he got a distribution off that i think off the top of my head around $130 million. so it could be that. it could be other money that he

had coming in. but that was kind of the main one that everybody sort of glommed on to. just some speculation. but it could have been.t but the filing didn't really have a lot of detail in it about what exactly that was about. >> so i shared these two pieces, the gag order ruling coming down, this latest part about enhanced monitoring. you were in court. court was in session today. you weren't there. but court was in session today. what happened? >> what happened today?t in terms of just the witness that was up? >> yes. >> there was another witness that came forward, and this is now a defense witness. we're sort of going through all these experts. andth the witness today just fr a read of partial transcript that i was following, he was there to say that the financial statements, the conditions of financial statements that are under question, that donald trump submitted to the banks that are now accused that never should have done and this is the statute that he is accused of violating, the

filing of 12 documents, but they were actually fairly accident. he said he has seen a lot of financial statements, and these ones were pretty good. that's sort of where we're at. i think we're going to see a couple more witnesses like that, and eric trump is up next week. and then we got a bit more clarity on the previous trial. donald trump will be up, i think it's december 11th.ec it's a monday. and then after that, we're going have a few rebuttal witnesses. and then we're looking at coming back, i think at some for closing arguments on january 11th.th and then a decision maybe by the end of january. the judge said it could take a few weeks. we're looking at still some time left. but theme actual witnesses and sort of making the case is coming to an end. >> claire, i want to go back to something you said. you were questioning someone who had attacked a judge's wife, a judge's clerk, what that says about their character. i think we're sort of done askingso questions about donald trump's character. nothing about it really surprises us as much as it should horrify us, i think abou, what lisa said about the fact that thereis is a certain sense

that the rules do not apply to me. iap am not constrained by the rules of the road. and what is possible, it could be once again revealed in the course of this civil fraud trial, which he is not the business genius he purported tot be. and you step back and you look at it b in a composite. there may be members of his base.hi there may be hard-core fans that will notd- be swayed by any of those dataed points, but i haveo imagine that there are some voters out there, those in whatever is left of the persuadable who say this guyf not whowh he said he was, and ts is not the character of the person i want leading this country. >> yeah. it is complicated. i think that persuadable voters may maybe were wowed in some way by the television persona of donald trump in 2016. and they really hadn't peeled the onion back to expose that he

inherited a lot of money. he had never really paid taxes. he refused to pay working people who were actually building for him. he tried to stiff them.th bankruptcy, bankruptcy, bankruptcy, banks that didn't want toba deal with him anymore so i think people now have a more full picture about donald trump in terms of him supposedly being this great businessman. now, like you said, i don't know that does any good for the people orhe's talking to. who he is talking to are the people that he has convinced that he is a victim. not that he is a perpetrator. and he's going a to continue too everything fair or unfair, tackf or untacky, disgusting or not disgusting to continue to convince thosein folks that he'a victim in this play. >> the t bar is set that low. susanne craig, lisa rubin, thank you for starting us off.

claire and basil are sticking around. when we come back, with battle lines drawn in the 2024 presidential election, the biden plan of attack. that is go on offense, travel to maga country. secretary pete buttigieg joins us on that topic next. plus, newly unsealed text messages between a u.s. congressman and one of the 2020 coup architects revealing just how involved he really was in trying to overturn the election in controlling the department of justice. january 6th investigators on that. and later in the show, new reporting aboutho some potentiay damaging testimony given to the special counsel in the mar-a-lago classified documents case. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after this. do not go anywhere.an"d se? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue.

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breaking news out of the middle east. six additional hostages have been released from hamas captivity. they're now with the red cross on their way to israel. we're going have a live report coming up in just a bit. now to politics at home. believe it or not, this afternoon is actually a perfect snapshot in time. a still frame of a certainly asymmetrical chapter in american history. just think about it. on one hand, the president of the united states, so confident in his achievements traveled the country, reminding voters just how much he has accomplished. two years since signing the infrastructure bill into law, president biden is now firmly on the political offensive. he celebrated the facts of his climate policies in colorado in district represented by congresswoman lauren boebert.

"a massive failure" that's how boebert described his climate policy and how the president was happy to turn around at a wind turbine yesterday. quote, you won't know you're part of a massive failure, making the sign of the cross at boebert's name. and then as we said, on the other side, you've got republicans seemingly and confusingly hell bent on impeaching president biden for something they have yet to come close to proving. that he personally benefitted from his son's business dealings. they insist without irony that donald trump should be visited instead by a number of ongoing civil rights. joining us u.s. transportation secretary pete buttigieg. claire and basel are back with us. good to see you. less than a year to the 2024 election. we know what defense looks like. what does it look like for this administration to go on offense? >> look, as an administration, we're focusing on the achievements that have happened under president biden's leadership.

and there are many, especially, of course, with regard to infrastructure and transportation. and how we know that these achievements are really phenomenal and delivering good results for the american people is even republican members of the house who voted to prevent them are still there to celebrate them when they actually happen. representative boebert has written letters of support for projects in her district to be funded with president biden's infrastructure package that she didn't just vote no on, but referred to as garbage. that didn't stop her from saying that that garbage i guess that she had called it was going to be good for her district. and sure enough, when the project is a good project, we're going fund it, regardless of the politics. we're doing a project on i-70. we're doing another one that is benefitting the city of pueblo and helping it reconnect. the kinds of highway, road and street improvement projects that motivated president biden to fight so hard to get that infrastructure passage done in the first place. we saw the speaker of the house

mike johnson just the other day with representative vern buchanan. both of them were touring airport terminal project in sarasota that our department approved for funding through president biden's infrastructure law. they apparently saw no irony in celebrating the project, even though they had voted no on the package that funded it. so, look, we know that these are good projects, because even the people who tried to block them are here to celebrate them. it's an example of what it means to show that we're about the bread and butter of governing. we're not about the chaos. we're not about the drama. we're not about the partisan politics. we're about getting stuff done, including fixing roads, bridges, tunnels, trains, airports, ports, and all the other things we've been working so hard in the administration. especially since president biden signed that historic bill two years ago. >> secretary, those are all substantive policy wins that are happening here on earth 1. over on earth 2, the gop's primary effort right now is

investigating hunter biden, making a connection between hunter and the president. is that a good use of their time? >> well, i tell you, that's not what i am hearing about when i travel around the country to talk about what people need for infrastructure. by the way, we're not just going to one type of community politically. we're going places that are large and small, red, blue, and purple. i got to tell you not one person has come up to me on the street whether it was in south dakota or west virginia or whether it was in manhattan or los angeles and said oh, secretary, i see you're here. i really want to make sure that you all are doing more about impeachment or about the president's relatives. what they say is we've got a real need here in terms of this road, in terms of this bridge, in terms of this port. that's exactly what we're focused on. that is where most people are. most regular people going about their lives, be they democrats, independents or republicans. and it's why as a group we're finding that there is again a

willingness, note a willingness, an appetite to claim credit for the projects even among the representatives who spend more of their time here in washington focusing on chasing their tail on an impeachment inquiry than helping us get the roads and bridges done. >> secretary, i hear you on americans' priorities. the administration puts the number of projects launched since the infrastructure bill's package. you know as well as i do the disconnect between the delivery of those wins and the perception and understanding of those wins. and i wonder how you believe you bridge that gap. >> well, part of that is why we're on the road so much. look, we shouldn't assume or expect that people are automatically going give credit where credit is due if we don't remind folks how these things came about. we've gotten so used to this infrastructure law being a reality that it's easy to forget that it was declared dead multiple times in the press in 2021 before president biden got it over the finish line. by the way, with cooperation

across the aisle. another thing that people scoffed at is the idea i don't do anything on a bipartisan basics, and yet a brought a number of republicans along with work with him, to work with congressional democrats to make this happen. we're going get out there, and we're going to continue get out there, on the ground, pointing to the benefits in all kinds of communities. and sometimes with multiple projects going on in the same community. yesterday i was in monroe, michigan. a small community about 20,000 has got michigan's only port on lake erie. we looked at this port where we're bringing $11 million where we're going to help shore up a facility that is very important for bulk cargo and for manufacturing there. on our way there to see the project in this small community of monroe, michigan that we wanted to look at, we passed by another project that happened to be on our path, also in monroe, michigan, getting rid of a railroad crossing on west elm street, avenue there, which has been a pinpoint because backed up trains there can delay emergency vehicles from getting

to where they're going, just as well as a convenience issue to the ymca and the school are right by this railroad crossing. doing a railroad elimination like that across the country. these are real things are that are making a real difference in people's real everyday lives. and i got to tell you, it's refreshing to get away from the politics, away from the noise. but we have to keep connecting the dots, because i'm under no illusion that people will automatically give president biden credit for what he has delivered unless we illustrate how we are putting these investments to work. >> real things here in the real world. secretary pete buttigieg, thank you so much for your time. i want to turn now to claire and basel. how do you create an add-on to that? is the contrast the chaos that republicans versus the things they're actually delivering, or is the contrast they vote against these things and then they want the take credit of them. >> one of the stops secretary buttigieg made was to hunter college where i teach and i hadithah a chance to talk with

former congress member steve israel about a these very products. a and the students and faculty that care deeply about this just wanted to hear about that. and to me, that really is the message that the cabinet is full of incredibly intelligent, thoughtful public servants who know how to do this retail politics if you will. >> it's not a series of henchmen and yes men, basil? >> not at all. not from the way i was raised in politics. these are folks good in policy and good at the retail politics of being able to explain policy. yes, on the one hand, i love to see joe biden in congress member boebert's district. yes, please, more of that. but on the other hand, what i think voters are concerned about is something "the new york times" wrote about, the narrative of capitalism. they're down on that. so have the future of our party, the bench that we have created, including the cabinet members be out there talking and reassuring voters of what the future looks like under this kind of

leadership. and i think secretary buttigieg, chiefly kamala harris, vice president harris among others can actually do that. and i do think when you get to the grassroots level, that's the kind of conversation you can generate. >> claire, you talk a lot about perceptions of the economy. one of the challenges of course not just for the biden administration, but for government in general is that things like infrastructure projects, they're a slow burn, right? they don't necessarily feel them immediately. it doesn't necessarily make your pocketbook issues go away. how do you communicate then around that? >> well, first of all, i think it's important to remember that infrastructure issues was something that donald trump said he was going to do. we had infrastructure week every month. and of course nothing happened. so that contrast is important to remind people about. the other problem with infrastructure is people take for granted that there is going to be a road, there is going to be a bridge, there is going to be a tunnel, there is going to be a port, there is going to be

an airport. and so when you improve them, they don't always realize oh, wait, this is because joe biden did this. so what he is doing is really important. and i love it that he is taking it to boebert. i hope he does that in all of those districts. but i want to remind everybody if donald trump was president, no way he would be building projects in districts that were occupied by, quote, unquote, his enemies. they are doing this program on merit, on projects that need to be done, not on politics. so i think it's totally fair to point out the hypocrisy of the maga congress members that are benefitting from these projects, but keep in mind that donald trump would never fund projects in places that didn't support him. that's not how he does government. >> and that's not as you well know how government is supposed to function. all right. when we come back, a revealing and never seen before series of

text messages between the chair of the house freedom caucus and key players in the ex-president's fight to overturn the 2020 election. what the revelations mean for all the criminal cases moving forward. ♪ the winter play was really coming together. ♪ until... disaster struck. ♪ tensions... were high. ♪ luckily, replacement costumes were shipped with fedex. which means mr. harvey... could picture the perfect night. ♪ we're delivering more happy for the holidays. ♪

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on december 30th, 2020, donald trump and his allies were debating whether to install justice department lawyer jeffrey clark as attorney general and potentially set in motion a constitutional crisis driven by fraudulent claims and

voter fraud, a text from pennsylvania congressman scott perry. the text read, quote, very happy to see your response. i read it just as you dictated. clark wrote back, i'm praying. makes me quite nervous. i wonder if i'm worthy or ready. perry responded you are the man. i've confirmed it. god does what he does for a reason. the exchange comes in a court filing that was briefly unsealed yesterday by the d.c. court of appeals as part of an ongoing dispute over how access special counsel jack smith has to perry's cell phone. days after the text messages were sent, clark tried to install as acting attorney general, a move was foiled by pushback from former acting attorney general jeffrey rosen and deputy acting attorney general among others. but the new text messages revealed congressman scott perry knew a lot about efforts to overturn the 2020 election,

starting with jeffrey clark. joining our conversation from our lead investigator from the january 6th select committee team. claire and basil are here as well. your committee investigated how perry introduced clark to trump. what do you make of these texts? >> they're direct evidence of what we found circumstantially that scott perry was right in the middle of the effort to install an acting attorney general who is prepared to take action without basis in factor law. there is some texts from perry to meadows which we received from mark meadows. so we were aware of his involvement in this single prong of the multipronged plan to disrupt the transfer of power by using the justice department. but the direct communications that have now been unsealed or at least put forth in the pleading shows how he was involved, dictating messages to the president from jeffrey clark. the president himself in the middle of this misguided plan

and shows that perry was the orchestrator. i think it's very significant. and it shows that the justice department has tools that we didn't have. they can get scott perry's phone. they imaged it. they found these text. we subpoenaed scott perry, and he said i'm not coming. so jack smith is using a tool at his disposal to get additional information beyond the circumstantial evidence that we found, not just about scott perry, but about a lot of things. >> tim, once you have that information, how does he then use it? >> well, he uses it to potentially get scott perry as a witness. he uses it to tell the story of the president's direct knowledge. again, jack smith has to prove that the president specifically intended to disrupt the joint session. his use of the justice department and contemplation of personnel change, jeff clark, remember, was prepared to send a letter to state legislatures essentially asking them to hold special sessions and put forth

these alternate fake slates of electors, and publicly declare that the justice department had serious concerns about election integrity without factual foundation. he is prepared despite the chorus of people telling him there is no basis for this. to use an arm of the federal government, the justice department as one prong of that scheme, it bears directly on the president's intent, and that's why it's important evidence for the special counsel. >> and claire, let's remember the stakes. you have political reporting that the newly disclosed documents disclose an extraordinary web of communications between perry who is now chair of the house freedom caucus and key figures in trump's orbit. they include a series of exchanges betwe perry and a former doj colleague between december 30th and january 5th 2021 in which perry embraced the plan to have then vice president mike pence admit testimony prior to the counting of electoral counts on january 6th. perry agreed to sell thedea with the call to trump. pee and trump adviser john

eastman, but later learned pence's chief of staff marc short will not allow access. claire, when you consider the new abc reporting, just how mike pence was to not presiding over the joint session, this seems like a pretty frightening revelation. >> it's all frightening. you want a really scary fact? keep in mind what stopped this step of the coup. putting jeffrey clark in to do whatever the crazy clown car's lawyers told him to do, the sidney powells, the giulianis, the jenna el ises. what stopped that were people in the white house and people in doj that said no, we will all resign in bulk if you do this. it will expose you as being being somebody who is doing something so outside the norm and frankly criminal. so he didn't do it. but guess what would happen in his next term? he is going to surround himself with the perrys, with the jenna

elliss, with the boeberts, with the jeff clarks. all the people around him are going to be the people who will bend to his will. he has already said that. so that's what's really scary about this is that he is a credible candidate for president of the united states. >> well, claire named jeffrey clark. i want to talk about something else that shows up in this "washington post" piece. when clark wanted access to extremely sensitive intelligence about the election results, he again turned to perry, the court documents show. in a textonversation beginning on new year's day, clark asked perry to tell the president that the head of the cia needs to get me the tickets. meaning clark wanted access to highly classified compartmented information. seor u.s. officials often refer their access to such closely guarded evidence as tickets. later texted clark, potus is giving you a presidential security clearance. it seems like a lot of access,

tim, for the white house to give to a congress person. >> yeah. and he got access. the key thing to remember is that jeff clark got that access so that information, which showed absolutely no evidence of foreign interference in the election. he got access to that intelligence. nonetheless, he persisted in this scheme to send this letter to state legislatures encouraging them to hold special session and to announce that there were concerns about voting fraud. again, the fact didn't matter. when he was given the fact, the plan didn't change. it was never about the fact. it was about a political strategy. so it's shocking that a congressman and then this lower level official department of justice get access to this highly classified sensitive information about election security. but even when he got it, despite how outrageous that was, it didn't change the plan. again, this whole thing was

disconnected from fact. that's what makes it so troubling. >> let me ask you, does this have any impact then on fulton county d.a. fani willis' case in georgia? >> potentially it does. they're very similar allegations. they're rico in georgia and the counsel's obstruction of an official case, same facts. clark's the charged defendant in georgia. here you have him, again, getting access to this information, yet persisting in these steps as part of a conspiracy to disrupt the joint session. absolutely has relevance. everything that jack smith develops potentially has relevance in georgia, and vice versa. when people cooperate in georgia, that has potential impact on the special counsel case because of how closely factually intertwined they are. i'm sure they're not explicitly cooperating, but there is nothing to prevent jack smith from reaching out to a cooperating defendant in georgia and there is nothing that prevents fani willis from reaching out for information that's developed in the special counsel case.

>> tim heaphy, claire mccaskill. the latest podcast, how to win 2024. claire ahosts this new series on presidential politics. it is a must listen. their latest episode is on the growing number of third party candidates who could run next year. you can scan the qr code right here on the screen right now to listen to how to win, wherever it is you get your podcast. shifting gears. up next, the latest hostage releases. we're going to tell you who they are as secretary of state antony blinken makes a return to the region in a new diplomatic push to keep that truce going. a live report is next.

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allowing in food and water, which hamas steals. breaking news this hour. as we mentioned, six more hostages have been released and are making their way towards israel, bringing the total freed to date the eight. the hostages were released as part of the terms to extend the temporary ceasefire between hamas and israel to a seventh day. in exchange, eight palestinian women the deal to extend the cease-fire for a seventh day came down to the early hours of the morning. it remains to seen whether it will be extended to an eighth day. we're minutesway from the cease-fire expiring. tragic news today.

it was announced the husband of the israeli american citizen released yesterday was not taken hostage with her, but killed in the attacks by hamas on november 7th. let's bring in david norwiega. tell us about the hostages that were just released. >> reporter: there were six hostages released, in addition to the two that were released. the numbers are a little different and that's because of the two hostages released yesterday, which were initially thought to be outside the framework of the agreement, but it turns out because they were israeli citizens and women they, in fact, counted towards that agreement. they're being counted in today's numbers. that brings us up to ten. as far as the group of six released, they're dual nationals from israel, mexico and russia.

included in the two released earlier this evening was mia shem who is 21 years old and the person who appeared in the first hostage video released by hamas in the first weeks after the attack on october 7th. >> what can you tell us about talks to extend the cease-fire? >> reporter: they are ongoing. the u.s. is engaged in pretty much a full court diplomatic press. secretary of state blinken is in israel. the director of the cia is in doha. the fbi is meeting with american families of people being held hostage in washington, d.c. they're putting as much pressure as they can on the netanyahu government to bring american hostages out of gaza. the netanyahu government is under pressure particularly from the right flank and certain sectors of the israeli public to not extend the cease-fire

agreement after -- you know, once we move past the initial framework of the agreement which was for women and children hostages exchanged for women and children prisoners. once we get to male hostages, the calculation is going to get a lot more complicated. alicia? >> i want to ask you about the 30 palestinian prisoners being released they. what do we know about them? >> reporter: this is the latest round of prisoners released from israeli military jails as part of this negotiation. it's the same ratio, three palestinian prisoners for every one israeli hostage released from the gaza strip. it's a complicated situation. the israeli government refers to these prisoners as terrorists. a lot of them were in fact convicted of serious violent crimes including attempted murder, stabbings, shootings. a lot are particularly among the teenage boys released, they're

held without charge or trial in a system of military courts through a policy known as administrative detention. people in the west bank see this system of military justice as one extension of the -- what they call unjust military occupation they live under every day. it's why we've seen scenes of celebration in the west bank every time prisoners are released. alicia? >> david, thank you. basil, thank you for joining us for the hour. we'll be right back. ur we'll be right back. what was it like before viasat satellite internet? two words: not fun.

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is divorced from reality. he has manufactured his entire life to defraud the voters of his district an honest choice for a member of congress. he has lied to donors and to colleagues, taking advantage of election law, using campaign funds to personally benefit himself. he has defamed not only his office, but the institution it was. >> that was a new york republican during a debate over expelling george santos. that was just a taste of what happened on the floor today. the actual vote to expel takes place tomorrow and santos is not going down without a fght.

he alleged a smear campaign and pointed out he's not been convicted of any crimes. he's facing 23 counts including wire fraud and money laundering. it's still unclear whether there are enough votes for expulsion. steve scalise told nbc news he'll vote against expulsion. new reporting on the warning donald trump got on how important ignoring a federal subpoena can be. subpoena can be. to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a healthy options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments.

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beyond that, when he faces subpoena, he didn't raise any legal arguments. he engaged in a course of deceitful conduct according to the indictment that was a clear crime, if those allegations are true. it was outrageous. hello, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york.

i'm alicia menendez in for nicolle wallace. we have new information that conversations between donald trump and his attorney stating that he was on the brink of committing a crime. allegations are that he hoarded thousands of classified documents at mar-a-lago. some of those documents containing some of the most sensitive national security information imaginable. abc news reports that one of trump's attorneys warned him he had to hand over those documents because not complying would be breaking the law. the attorney was jennifer little. she currently represents trump in the georgia election

interference case. abc newseports 12 days after the subpoena was issued in may of 2022, little informed trump the stakes were much higher. from that reporting, quote, she told trump after a diligent search of mar-a-lago they found more classified documents and returned all of them he would not face legal jeopardy. he told trump if there are anymore classified documents, failing to return all of them would be a problem, especially because the subpoena requires a signed certification swearing full compliance, sources said. once this is signed, if anything else is located, it's going to be a crime. sources quoted little as recalling she told trump this. sources said when investigators asked little if those messages to trump landed, she responded, absolutely. the former president said something to the effect of, okay, i get it. apparently he did not get it, or

just ignored the advice of his lawyer. prosecutors allege that trump with the help of mar-a-lago staffers hid boxes of documents to avoid returning them to the government. little's advice to her client came during a meeting attended by evan corcoran who had just been hired to handle the case. we know corcoran took notes following his conversation with the ex president where he described trump saying, wouldn't it be better if we just told them we don't have anything here? trump has denied all wrongdoing in this case. that's where we start this hour carol lettig, former u.s. attorney hair litman and "new york times" reporter katie bitner. i just think about how this

lines up with what we already knew. you get a sense of trump's mindset. >> jennifer little says she told him that in no uncertain terms and he clearly understood. the receipt of a subpoena, as you could hear from bill barr's statements, is the ultimate focusing event in the criminal justice system. no more playing around. he played around for 15 months. even common criminals know that at that point you have to actually comply. she made it 100% clear. that basically, and the fruits of the search warrant, set out much of the crimes that are alleged at mar-a-lago. that's what makes it so clean. he knew he had to. he didn't do it and he -- thereafter there were more documents found there. it makes it a straightforward case. this is killer testimony.

>> katie, it's so striking to me, this pattern of trump's that he only listens to his lawyers when he likes what they're telling him. there are many times they've told him things he doesn't like. the difficulty of having a crime and saying this, then he says, i get it, and then they do the opposite. >> i was struck about the warning that jennifer little gave saying it required a lawyer saying all the documents were returned. this subpoena needed a lawyer's signature vowing that donald trump told the truth. evan corcoran was in that meeting and he did not sign that. he made sure he didn't. you get a sense that his lawyers have an understanding they could be in jeopardy if they work for

the former president. corcoran doesn't sign the subpoena, even though he's brought on to handle this case. he's taking the warning more seriously than donald trump. >> carol, there are two layers. there's taking the documents, having them in bathrooms and offices and places they never should have been. then there's the obstruction of justice which this is getting to. explain how it all fits together. >> one thing that's interesting to focus on is how jennifer little makes clear to the president, look, we're somewhere different now than when the national archives was asking for these documents. the national archives and the fbi are pushing for donald trump to turn these over. the national archives alone until february of 2022 pushing and pushing for months asking him -- we know these documents

exist, we know they're missing, we're pretty darn sure you have them. please, please, please give them back. at that point it's a records chase. they don't realize until that february of 2022 at the national archives that actually many of the documents inside the 15 boxes he returns contain classified records. that's when they have a duty at the national archives to refer this to the fbi and the national security division of the department of justice. that's when things get stressful. the department of justice, their job is to ensure that there is no compromise of these records, that there's no spillage that imperils national security. when there's information floating around that might fall into the wrong hands, even foreign adversary's hands that reveals how

abroad, that reveals how the country is forgiving out other country's weapon systems, that's the national security and fbi's greatest worry. what else is out there? things get more serious when the department begins conducting interviews, and the fbi with them, and learns that there's quite a few more classified records on the property at mar-a-lago and the subpoena is issued. there are three stages here, alicia, where donald trump is on alert, we need you to comply. the most serious one is the subpoena. that's where jennifer little says this could be a crime if we don't turn this over. the obstruction, the reason the rule of law works in the united states is because people realize they must comply. they must tell the truth when they're interviewed by an fbi

agent and must provide all the records requested of them. in this case it's clear over and over, in the records before us and in the testimony that we've learned about from donald trump's own lawyers that he did not and he intentionally, according to their own testimony, intentionally did not provide it. >> we have a real world example of what it looks like when a former office holder takes classified documents and this is where the trump case, the biden case they diverge, which is trump specifically says, no, no, these are mine. doesn't want to hand them over. has an attorney say if you don't hand them over, it's a crime. he ignores her. in comparison to the current president who says come in, take them back. >> it shows how patient the department of justice and the fbi are with donald trump upon learning that he has classified

information -- forgive me -- classified materials he has in his possession. the patience they demonstrate in the months before they actually subpoena the records. and then in the rest of the summer before they actually execute a search warrant, a surprise -- what's normally referred to as a raid, execute a surprise search warrant at mar-a-lago. i have heard from so many sources in the law enforcement community that were it anyone else in february 2022 when they learned about these records, they would have been on the premises instantaneously. if this were any other person, they would have been charged and arrested likely after the raid returns boxes and boxes of

additional classified records that have been concealed from the government. >> this is why we feel like we're living in the upside down. in reality former president donald trump was given a lot of deference. evan corcoran's notes were given to the special counsel's office because the judge made a ruling that the crime fraud exception applied. explain that to me. >> sure. what it means the communications -- this is the same thing that happened to jennifer little. she resisted at first and the judge said the same thing. when the communications are in furtherance of a crime, this being the crime of obstruction, attorney/client privilege goes away. the judge found it goes away here. it's one of several times it's been found in these trump prosecutions. that's the only reason we know what jennifer little told trump so clearly.

as carol said, they give him all the rope in the world, but once you do a subpoena -- they finally said, screw it. here's your subpoena. that's the ultimate line in the sand and he then basically decided not to comply. that's really the criminal moment right there. that's almost where you can start the case. >> katie, timelines here, the trial for this classified documents case is still set for late in 2024. talk about the status of where this trial is at this moment, katie. >> in the spring of 2024 is when the trial is scheduled. because this trial includes so much classified information, there's very specific rules surrounding that information in a trial. those are motions that need to be done and done before anything

begins. they need to be done in a particular order. what judge aileen cannon has decided is these motions will probably be filed in the spring. because of that, it will push back the may deadline. what's interesting is this case is much more straightforward than the january 6th case, yet it might not go to trial before the election because, once we miss the spring deadline, we'll have all these other criminal trials that donald trump is scheduled to be a part of. who knows when this will actually even happen. >> we're losing you, katie. we heard trump's former ag say it's a clear crime. another white house lawyer, ty cobb said he'll go to jail for this. >> all they really have to do is show that trump moved these documents at various times when

doj was either demanding them or actually present, that he filed falsely with the justice department and had his lawyers file falsely with the justice department. it was shattered by the documents they then discovered after the search. this obstruction case is a tight case. yes, i think he'll go to jail on it. >> harry, do you agree? >> well, i think he'll be convicted. the lynch pin is the subpoena. once you violate that, it's a clear-cut case. it will ultimately come down to judge aileen cannon in terms of what he's convicted what his sentence will be and if he serves jail time. the supreme court has said district courts have a lot of leeway there. the guidelines for what he's charged with, if he's convicted, are for several years. she would really have to plummet

very, very far from there and explain it. it's going to be hard, if he's convicted, for her not to give him some kind of custodial sentence. >> carol, i don't know if we have the graphic that shows the timeline of the various trump trials. put the documents case in a timing context. it's a very full calendar. >> it is. i think it's important what katie said, if i could amplify that, about how clean and clear-cut this case is. we're not the judge and jury, but in terms of the facts set, it's a much leaner, meaner case. it's an easier one to prove based on what we already know in hand. yet, the january 6th, which is scheduled now for jury selection in february and for the trial to begin in, i believe, late march,

that case is so much more complicated. in a way the federal version of the georgia case, but much more straight lined, that one is moving so much more at pace despite its complexity, despite the numerous other facts that have to be brought in. the difference is the judge. judge chutkan has said, i have firm deadlines. this is when you have to file appeals, file motions, all the pretrial motions that could delay things. judge cannon in the classified records case has done the opposite of not setting hard deadlines for when some of the classified information protection act proceedings must go forward. there's inevitably going to be push.

you remember judge chutkan in the january 6th case asked alvin bragg for his patience and deference to let her proceed with her case, rather than his in new york. his was scheduled for spring of 2024. now that's going to be delayed. the georgia case, fani willis, the most complicated, the one that started first, yet involves so many more players and defendants, many of whom have started to cooperate with fani willis in georgia, that case looks like it's not going to be tried, at least with respect to donald trump, before the election, which is something she shared at a "washington post" live event recently. >> how wild to circle back where we started for an attorney to say it's going to be a crime, for their client to say, i get it, then to do it anyway. carol, harry, katie, thank you

so much. a threat made by a house republican against special counsel jack smith serves as a warning for all of us about what the disgraced ex president and his allies are capable of doing should we return to the white house. we'll be joined by zoe love ren in just just a moment. and chaos on the hill as congress tries to get answers about the ethic committee's investigation. investigation. ♪ we're building a better postal service. for more on-time deliveries. and easier, affordable ways to ship. so you can deliver even more holiday joy. the united states postal service.

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in the movie "lion king" when they're talking about the fact that there would be no king. absolute anarchy would prevail. >> that nonsensical statement by senate mike lee was a good summation of the proceedings where anarchy did prevail. the democratic committee members wanted to get to the bottom of corruption for the nation's highest court. the committee wanted subpoenas for two men who made gifts to samuel alito and clarence thomas. they've refused to appear before the committee. in response to this attempt to gain basic oversight, republicans attempted to obstruct the proceedings

attaching 176 amendments, as well always having an adult temper tantrum. >> it's garbage. >> you'll have a lot of consequences if you go down this road. >> you better believe it. >> congratulations on destroying the united states senate judiciary committee. >> i guest senator durbin isn't going to allow women to speak. >> you're pleasing none of us. >> despite displeasure, the subpoenas were approved 11-0 after every republican member walked out of the committee. joining our conversation former assistant u.s. attorney mia wiley and at the table host of fast politics podcast, molly jean-fast. mia, chaotic is the word i use,

but that doesn't describe what unfolded. talk us through what we watched and why it matters. >> well, let's say first of all what we watched was pure politics. it had nothing to do with the policy making or power or the charge of congress including the senator judiciary committee. let's start with what's at stake because i just think it's so central and important for everyone to understand. the constitution of the united states of america article 3 says there will be a supreme court of this land that has to behave good. it literally says good behavior in the constitution. here's the other thing that's so important, congress is the place that has the power to decide if justices are engaging in good behavior or not. that's why they have impeachment power over justices of the supreme court.

i think we've never used it, but it doesn't matter. we used it for other judges. this is the point. we're talking about the most powerful court in our country that has the power to decide whether or not our constitution is being violated or not. has the power to make decisions about what even is the power of federal agencies and of the executive branch. it is incredibly important as one of the three branches of government, but it's also very clear that congress has a charge. that charge certainly includes that the power of the court has not been corrupted. because if it has been, if it's been corrupted by a powerful few based on its ability to buy access, that's just as bad as the corruption of a lawmaker taking a bribe to make a decision about policy making. so the idea that we saw this

kind of political theater in the context of some very critical reporting that has shown that we have justices of the supreme court that have gotten hundreds of thousands of dollars in gifts and benefits from some very powerful people who -- by the way, leonard leo has a very specific agenda for the court making sure it's a court that would reverse roe versus wade. so it's central to our democracy that the senate judiciary committee do its job and make sure the justices of the supreme court are doing justice instead of doing just us. >> i love how mia's cat in the background was as revved up about the constitution as mia was. josh hawley said, once you do it becomes the norm. i can tell you we'll get the

judiciary committee back. we'll have a majority in the senate in the next congress and i imagine this will be the new norm. i'm fine with that. it will speed things along. once you cross the bridge, you cross the bridge. this tone of retribution, the we are coming for you should we get back in power, this is their new drum beat. >> josh hawley's very brave except when there's a mob storming the capitol. then he's very fast on the feet. we always expect better in the senate. we expect this bad behavior from in the house. lindsey graham, marsha blackburn, these are the burn it down caucus in the senate. what i would say is that sheldon whitehouse didn't come to these subpoenas out of a fantasy world. this is based on endless

reporting of all sorts of malfeasance. the supreme court decided they would police themselves because of these disclosures. it's important to point out this is not james comer. this is people who have something to subpoena on. >> to that point, this is about accountability. it's about oversight. do you think the judiciary committee speaks to crow, speaks to leo? >> so far they said no. this is how it works. congress has the power to legislate, has the power to make the decision around how many justices do we have on the supreme court, has the power to decide whether a justice should be removed from the supreme court, impeached, has the power to pass ethics legislation, which we have been calling for. what the supreme court has done is not binding.

it is doing its constitutional duty by calling witnesses about these legislative questions. they can go and say to the u.s. attorney for the district of columbia, we're referring these for contempt of congress for not complying with our subpoena. we'll see how far this goes. my hope -- my hope is that these two witnesses understand that in our constitutional order this is what they should do, come and speak to the gifts they have given. come and speak. if they've got nothing to hide, tell us. what did you do? when did you do it? did you ask for anything? if you haven't done anything untoward, what's the problem? the republicans are making it clear they'll block and tackle, and that's sad for all of us. this should be an issue of principle. >> the stakes are so high. mia, thank you.

molly, you're sticking with me. a lot of developments to get to related to january 6th, including a threat made by an ally of the disgraced ex president against special counsel jack smith. stay with us. ay with us ro and id apple watch - all on them! ♪ (mom) please forgive him. (carolers) ♪ it's all good - just a little awkward. ♪ (soloist) think we'll wrap this up. (vo) for a limited time, turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. that's up to $1700 in value. only on verizon. hi, my name is damion clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a healthy options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities,

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i consider it a badge of honor to be on another one of jack smith's lists. i would just say his days are numbered. american patriots are not going

to stand idly by good sir and allow our republic to dissolve. we're prepared to fight legally and peacefully with every ounce of our might and focus. >> that seems like a threat from congressman clay higgins against jack smith because he's building a case against an ex president. it can be hard to take the congressman seriously. the same guy suggested in a worldwide threats hearing that fbi agents were among the january 6th rioters. he's also underscoring the iron clad allegiance within the republican party and the lengths it might be willing to go to protect the four-time indicted ex president and likely gop nominee. zoe lofgren joins our conversation.

she served on the january 6th committee. congresswoman, your reaction to this? >> it's unfortunate. he tried to clean up his statement by saying peacefully. when you say someone's days are numbered, it's a threatening language. certainly it can't just be the changing if mr. trump were elected president. smith is a civil servant. he's not a political employee. it's unfortunate that congressman higgins said that. it's not the only unfortunate thing he's said over the years. >> indeed. unfortunately this show is not long enough to recap all those things. let's talk a little more context. higgins was reacting to the special counsel seeking information from trump's twitter account. your committee presented how his

tweets would go on to galvanize his followers on january 6th. there's a reason and rationale for why they want this. >> right. we didn't get everything. obviously tweets are public. we were able to read that. it's my understanding, however, that the doj is looking at some material that was not actually made public, maybe some internal text messages and the like. we didn't have access to that. i'm very interested in what they contain, as the doj is. as you know, the department of justice has tools that the january 6th committee did not. in some cases we subpoenaed material and people refused to comply and we didn't have the same tools and mechanisms that the doj has to enforce compliance. i think that smith is -- we uncovered a lot, but i think

smith is uncovering things we couldn't get at. >> your fellow january 6th committee member liz cheney is writing about a gop that's abandoned all principles. she tells a story about a fellow member who says they knew what trump did was impeachable, but they were worried for their wife, their new baby. your sense of what today's republican party stands for? >> well, the party as a whole seems to stand for doing whatever trump wants. that's not true of every republican. i know some republicans who are not in that mode. that's where their party is, where their leadership is. they do not call out the threats and violence. i obviously was not with liz when the member of congress called the orange jesus, but i

heard scuttlebutt that it's a name that's used on the other side of the aisle. the idea that people would be afraid to vote their conscious out of fear, you know, that was something that senator romney mentioned. there were senates who knew that trump should be convicted, yet they didn't vote to convict because they were afraid of physical violence for them or their family. that is a very sad position in our country when people can't do their duty because of fear of violence from trump cultists. very concerning. >> i'm glad you brought that up. i was struck by the parallels between the cheney book and romney book and their recitations of history, and how they match up and paint an accurate picture of current gop. the things they're currently

saying, members of the gop, these january 6th conspiracies, talk about the reality when you have a sitting congress person talking to news max viewers about the so-called corruption of the fbi and doj. we can talk about trump all we want. this long tail of trumpism, the commitment to undermining american institutions is alive and well today within the current gop. >> it's unpatriotic. the members of congress here on january 6th they should know the truth. we were all evacuated together. we could hear the pounding on the doors of the house chambers and we saw the mob later, more than 160 officers were injured trying to keep us safe. some of them were injured so severely that they had to retire from the force. people lost an eye, fingers. to say that this was something

other than the violent riot that it was is just ridiculous. it's bizarre. it's a lie. why would some of these republicans want to institute that lie. you have to ask them their motive. it looks like they can't stand the truth. their guy tried to overthrow the constitution and, if you listen to what he's saying now, he intends to -- his words -- terminate the constitution. that's what he posted on his truth social. to pretend this is anything other than the threat it is is not to do your duty to the constitution and the country. >> congresswoman, real quick, your reaction to what we learned from congressman scott perry's texts yesterday. >> well, we were pretty aware there was -- scott was very

involved trying to put clark in. we couldn't get his text messages. we didn't get all the information that i think the department of justice has. we had the basic outlines of what was going on and looks like mr. smith has been able to fill in some of the gaps, the evidentiary gaps, we could not. it's disturbing. you know, this was a wide-ranging plot to overthrow an election, essentially to overturn the constitutio. it included the former president and members of the house of representatives. it's shocking, sad and frightening. >> congresswoman, thank you for joining us. nicolle will be back this tuesday for an extended interview with liz cheney, the vice chair of the january 6th committee. it's a special one-on-one interview in studio about

cheney's new book "oath and hon honor". when we return, why elon musk is in hot water today. ot wy [city ambience sounds] [car screech] [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. [camera shutter sfx] he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned?] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required.

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advertise? >> no. >> what do you mean? >> if somebody's going to try to blackmail me with advertising, go [ bleep ] yourself. >> but -- >> go [ bleep ] yourself. is that clear? i hope it is. >> yep, that really happened. elon musk addressing the growing lists of advertisers that have stopped spending money on x yesterday. the mass exodus started after musk used the form to amplify a post supporting anti-semitic conspiracy theories. let's bring in nbc news

technology correspondent jake ward. molly is with us. jake, before we dive into the specifics of that exchange, i want to back up. some of our viewers may not use x or care about elon musk. connect the dots for us on why what is happening at x is tied to this bigger conversation we have on this program all the time about truth and democracy. >> well, alicia, i would say there's two reasons to care. the first is the nature of what x is, or what it used to be as twitter, one of the last big global platforms by which parties that could never normally speak to one another, even through diplomatic channels could make big announcements to one another. you have world leaders communicating, not to mention local police departments to let you know your roads are flood. it's a communication infrastructure. the second thing is that all these moments of bad behavior on

elon musk's part would only be one thing if he were only the ceo of x. he's the ceo of other companies. you mentioned the white house blasting him for what he said on x. at the same time the white house also is dependent on elon musk to take american personnel and cargo into space. he's the number one provider of private space travel. the trip he made on israel monday and tuesday seemingly to apologize for promoting an anti-semitic conspiracy theory had him walking around with netanyahu and president hertzog. then we saw israel thanking him for not giving hamas a platform.

so you have these companies becoming meshed each other. >> we have the clip we showed you. he acknowledges the advertising boycott is likely going to kill the company. what's the strategy? >> i don't think strategy is the word. people i have been speaking to in that room say it was as tense a moment as you could possibly imagine. this is not elon musk's other companies in which you would never see him speak that way to a mining company on which he depends for the materials that create the batteries for his tesla products or products or the steelmakers he needs for spacex. he would never speak to them that way. why is he speaking to advertisers this way? less to do with the financial pressure he's under and more the psychological pressure he's under. he brought this company to have a platform to burnish his

reputation and bel force. it is not going that way, and increasingly his erratic behavior seems to be connected to that as opposed to any business strategy. >> jonathan makes this great point about when musk says, they can't blackmail me. pulling advertising dollars is not blackmail, it's expression in a free market, which makes me believe he doesn't understand how a free market works. >> we saw this trump and republican boycotts. you know, you'll have to spend ad dollars on x. why would people want to spend ad dollars on x, especially when you find that your content is next to white supremacist content or content that is not necessarily true? one of the things elon musk did is he really disabled all of the fact checking mechanisms, so now

there's only this community note system, which is very imperfect. and there used to be more fact checking, and this has actually had a cascade effect for other places like threads and facebook who have disabled their sort of fact checking. >> it go backs to jake's point about, this is infrastructure whether you like it or not. that infrastructure used to actually work. that infrastructure used to have guardrails. and now under musk's leadership, it does not. as always, jake ward, molly jung fast, thank you so much for spending some time with us. and aquick break for us. we'll be right back. and aquick break for us. we'll be right back. >> customer: thank you so much. >> tech vo: schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪

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kissinger really set the standard for everyone who followed in this job. i was very privileged to get his counsel many times, including recently as about a month ago. >> that was secretary of state antony blinken paying tribute to one of his most influential predecessors, henry kissinger who died wednesday in his connecticut home at the age of 100. secretary of state and national security national security under two presidents and adviser to countless more is credited with shaping modern american foreign li, orchestrating the normalization of relations with china, easing tensions between the u.s., and then soviet union during the cold war. but critics have also denounced him for helping to expand u.s.

military involvement in vietnam, a widespread bombing campaign in cambodia. moments ago, president biden releasing a statement offering his condolences. despite their sometimes strong disagreements on foreign policy. another break for us. we'll be right back. for us we'll be right back. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your original medicare deductibles, but they may have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. humana medicare advantage prescription drug plans include medical coverage, plus prescription drug coverage. and coverage for dental, vision, and hearing, all wrapped up into one convenient plan. plus, there's a cap on

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(inspirational music) - [narrator] wounded warrior project helps post-9/11 veterans realize what's possible. with generous community support. - aaron, how you doing buddy? - [narrator] we bring warriors together and empower them to become stronger inside and out.

- it's possible to begin healing - to get the help you need. - to find peace. - [narrator] and as each warrior's needs evolve, so do we. because these last 20 years are just the beginning. thank you so much for spending this thursday with us. we are as always so grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, alicia. thank you so mu