right now on "andrea mitchell reports," breaking news across capitol hill. a bipartisan group of lawmakers calling the presidents of elite universities on the carpet over their response to a spike in anti-semitism on college campuses. >> what is it about the way that you hire faculty and approve curriculum that's allowing your campuses to be infected by this intellectual and moral rot? >> leadership matters. you are leaders. in academia, at your institutions as well. new grave warnings from fbi director chris wray over domestic and foreign threats to the homeland, surging since the start of the israel/hamas war and a push to reauthorize a controversial surveillance tool. >> as the threats from foreign adversaries to our homeland continue to evolve, the agility and effectiveness of 702 will be

essential to the fbi's ability -- really our mandate from the american people to keep them safe for years to come. also this hour, nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engel live from the war zone as israel's latest offensive forces hundreds of thousands of palestinians into overcrowded areas in south gaza. families of hostages held by hamas for nearly two months meet today with prime minister netanyahu's war cabinet. ♪♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in new york. as the presidents of harvard, penn and m.i.t. face a congressional committee over how they responded to an increase in anti-semitism in their cpuses since the october 7th attacks. a study by the anti-defamation league reveals 73% of jewish college students experienced or

witnessed some form of anti-semitism this year alone. fewer than 40% of those students feeling comfortable with others knowing that they are jewish. today, the university presidents defending their response to anti-semitism on their campuses. >> anti-semitism is a symptom of ignorance. the cure is knowledge. harvard must model what it means to preserve free expression while combating prejudice and preserving the security of our community. >> i have condemned anti-semitism publically, regularly, and in the strongest possible terms. today let me reiterate my and penn's unyielding commitment to combating it. >> i have been president of m.i.t. since january of this year. as an american, as a jew, and as a human being, i abhor anti-semitism. >> i should note, i'm a former

longstanding trustee at the university of pennsylvania. while i'm no long area voting member, i'm an active alumna. ryan nobles joins us. tell us about this concern by congress and the presidents of the universities and how they responded. >> reporter: i think more than anything, andrea, as often is the case with congress, this was an opportunity to bring to light the real concerns that members of congress have about these growing threats of anti-semitism on college campuses across the country. you saw the presidents answer that call. they came here and took the tough questions. they continue to take tough questions from members of congress. there does appear to be some sort of reluctance by these members of congress to believe that they are taking the steps necessary to truly prevent this from happening. what can congress do? there's a lot of different options they have at their disposal. many of them would be likely difficult to actually get over finish line. there's the opportunity for them to increase funding to

government programs that help reduce the cases of anti-semitism across the country. members of congress have threatened going as far as limiting or cutting off federal funding to these institutions. they are largely private. that funding is limited to begin with. or perhaps taking away their tax exempt status. that would be difficult for them to do. this was more than anything a way to make sure these college presidents know that members of congress are concerned about this and find a way to get them to try toen -- to try to reign it in. >> and also the supplemental is stalled over border security. also, the money for israel, and ukraine. but the money for israel is in jeopardy. >> reporter: yeah. probably the best and worst parts about this legislative

package that the white house has asked congress to pass is that there are so many different parts of it. the best part about that being is that you can leverage those parts against each other so that if people don't care about one thing but they care about another thing, maybe they will vote to it. the bad parts is because it has so many components and it's so complex, that makes it more difficult to find the sweet spot where everyone can agree upon things. the israel component of it is becoming problematic. there are progressive democrats in particular that are worried that the united states is not doing enough to force israel to be accountable as to the way they are conducting this war. listen to what senator bernie sanders had to say about his concerns about the israel funding package. >> i do not believe we should be appropriating over $10 billion for the right wing extremist netanyahu government to continue its current military approach. what the netanyahu government is

doing is immoral, it is in violation of international law, and the united states should not be complicit in those actions. >> reporter: you have four planks to this. ukraine, israel, border security, and taiwan. some support all of it. some support only certain components. we didn't get into the border security component. it's a complex issue that they are trying to get done in what has become a short amount of time. >> you are only taking about a matter of weeks. it could not be more complicated. ryan nobles, thank you. joining us now is florida democratic congressman jared moscowitz. the speaker says, ukraine aid is dependent on transformative border security. the white house is saying ukraine is out of money in weeks. they will not have money for weapons or ammo, because the

u.s. will not be able to backfill. the money is spent. >> yeah, thanks. this is a critical problem. it fits right into the chaos going on in washington. we are sending a message to the world that we can't handle big problems anymore. we are sending that message to our allies and our enemies are paying attention. i'm really worried about what's going to happen with the aid, not just the israel aid, but ukraine as well. i'm for doing a complete package if we have to, which is to do the ukraine funding, israel funding and to do significant changes at the border. i think the american people want to see that. obviously, details have to be worked out. if we can't get this done, it's not just that we are sending ukraine a message and israel a message. the whole world will be watching that congress is broken and can no longer potentially protect

our allies. russia and putin is going to seize on that and so will china. china will see that democracy is failing in congress. >> do you think the president needs to get more involved in this? we haven't seen a lot of presidential engagement. they haven't been called to the white house for meetings to try to knock heads. >> look, i think the president is working behind the scenes. we have seen what that looks like with the diplomacy he has been doing in the middle east so far. he is working behind the scenes. the president is doing what he can. i'm sure we eventually will see those meetings take place. i'm sure we will see the president go more public with his lobbying effort to try to convince congress to do our job. good god, i mean, this is our job. let's not pretend we're not doing it because we don't believe in the policy. there's a bipartisan agreement to get it done. we can't function. let's not leave speaker johnson out of this.

part of this is his fault. he could have passed a clean israel bill, clean israel aid. could have brought both parties together on capitol steps, within the first week of him being speaker. but he decided to play politics and condition the aid with the irs. as a result, he knew that bill was dead in the senate. he was told that bill would be he wanted the partisan win. if you are a republican and concerned about israel aid and concerned about not being able to get this done, you gotta go talk to speaker johnson. he is the one who could have started off with a clean bill, but instead played politics. >> congressman, thank you very much. somewhere safe? as the israeli military moves further into southern gaza, where can palestinians find a safe haven? the latest next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in 60 seconds only on msbc.

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today, israeli ground forces continue to advance across multiple locations in southern gaza. now pushing deeper into the city of khan yunis. nearly 600,000 palestinians in gaza are facing evacuation orders. finding a safe zone remains elusive for scores of civilians. richard engel joins us now. richard, what are your teams seeing throughout these various locations in southern gaza? >> reporter: well, right now a lot of misery. as you may or may not be able to see behind me, it's pouring rain here. there's a heavy thunderstorm in jerusalem, lightning, a downpour. there's one in gaza. we spoke to our team in southern gaza. the rain is heavy there as well. the reason that's important is

we have an internally displaced crisis. people in rafah are out on the streets. hundreds of thousands of people have been forced to the southern tip of gaza, that there isn't enough room for everyone, not enough spaces, not enough beds, not enough shelter for them. there wasn't enough even about this part of the israeli ground offensive began. so there's a real feeling of misery. the u.n. humanitarian chief said that every day you think it can't get more apocalyptic, and then it does. right now, the situation is quite terrible. because of this latest phase of the ground fighting. first people were pushed from the northern parte gaza strip to the center and south. now that the military campaign focusing on the city of khan yunis, which is just above rafah, north of rafah, people are starting to evacuate from there and going down toward the border. it's hard to know exactly how

many people are there. there were roughly 300,000 inhabitants in rafah. locals estimate the number may be up to a million right now. incredibly cramped conditions while the assault is going on. israel says that it has no choice but to do this, because it has to go where hamas goes. hamas has been moving with the population. it didn't invite this war upon gaza. this war was started by hamas on october 7th, nearly two months ago. this is a consequence of hamas' decision to launch a massacre into israel. the people of gaza are paying an enormously heavy price while hamas is still firing. hamas not having as many casualties according to the israeli military as the population, because many of the fighters are in underground positions. >> the aid was cut off completely when they began -- they announced the end of the

pause and they began firing friday. then was there a trickle? how much aid is actually getting in through rafah? >> reporter: each shipment is negotiated. there's aid flowing again, but it's not at the level of the truce. that is something that negotiators are pushing for. it's something the families of the hostages are pushing for. there was just a very tense meeting not long ago between the hostage families and the government of prime minister netanyahu. there are communities in israel and gaza that want to get back to the truce that was underway a week ago, not because it was perfect, not because anyone wanted to be in this situation, but it was working to a degree, because aid was flowing in up to

a couple hundred trucks a day. now just a trickle and not consistent. hostages were coming out. there was a meeting today between some of the hostage families and the government. according to israeli channel 12, it went very badly with shouts and emotions coming from -- a high emotions coming from the hostage families because they fear that with this renewed phase of the fighting, there's little to no chance of getting people out and getting people out alive. >> richard engel, thank you so much for the latest from the war zone. an urgent ask at home. the fbi director comes to capitol hill with a pressing request for congress to renew a controversial surveillance power. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. trading n your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated.

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we're trying to get to jamaica. stay close and... everything will be all right. i'm ok. i'm ok. on capitol hill today, fbi director wray issuin a dire warning about the elevated threat level in this country, what he called blinking lights, in testimony to the senate judiciary committee today. >> i have never seen a time where all the threats or so many of the threats are all elevated all at exactly the same time. that's what makes this environment that we're in now so fraught. >> would you say that there's multiple blinking red lights out there? >> i see blinking lights everywhere i turn. >> joining me now is justice and intelligence correspondent ken

dilanian and danel harvin. ken, to you. he said the threats spiked after october 7th. >> reporter: he added, there is a 60% increase in hate crimes investigations by the fbi since october 7th, most of those alleged crimes directed at the jewish community, some against muslims in the united states. it's a daunting time for the fbi. i will add that they have changed the way they talk about the threat picture in the wake of january 6th when they were faulted for not seeing what was in plain sight on social media. they used to talk about plots and intelligence. now they talk about the threat picture, including the vitriol online. whether that leads to a specific incident, what they say is the threat is elevated. they are concerned about a lone wolf, because it only takes one person to do something dramatic.

>> you were one of the key people who testified about the fact that there were some warnings around january 6 beforehand, that were ignored, that were not taken in. >> absolutely. if you look at director wray's -- not just this testimony but the testimony he provided last month, it's a steady drumbeat of intelligence which he can't clearly share with the general public, but he is telling them what we call the bottom line up front. there is a threat environment that we have in the united states that the threats are coming from within, from the domestic threat, violent right wing radicals to people who may be radicalized, what they see on social media. and the potential for foreign terrorist organizations, what we call ftos, to launch attacks against the united states. while he is very clear that there's no indication that hamas has the ability to launch attacks against the united states, that means nothing in

terms of the online radicalization and the inspiration that hamas may be giving to u.s. citizens that are here, much like happened in the mid 2010s with i.s.i.s. >> ken, the fbi director urged congress to renew a key u.s. surveillance tool, 702. it expires the end of december. he explained why. >> the reality is, the whole reason we have 702 focused on foreign threats from overseas is to protect america from those threats. it's not to admire foreign threats from afar and study them and think about them. it's to know what they are and to make sure they don't hurt americans here. american businesses targeted with cyberattacks, american victims targeted for assassination or terrorist attacks. >> i was interviewing the intelligence -- house

intelligence chair mike turner, yesterday, ken, and he said they are closing in on a compromise here. the issue became hot when it was finally discovered that under fbi director mueller in the investigation into donald trump, there were a couple of abuses in terms of people for whom they were not adequate protections and some fbi acts were punished for that. >> reporter: that's right. there have been audits that have shown a number of abuses, particularly of querying u.s. persons, americans in this surveillance program. what chris wray said is they have done reforms and that even the judges that have criticized them in the past has praised the system now. you have a weird dynamic in congress. house republicans are really pressing to change the way this law is written in a way the fbi does not like. today you saw senate democrats grilling him and expressing

their own concern. it's a confluence of the left and right here. the fbi director's message is, this is a crucial surveillance tool that provides 60% of the intelligence that crossed the president's desk last year. he doesn't think there should be a warrant requirement. he thinks it needs to remain as is. it is providing chinese spy operations to terrorist attacks to all sorts of foreign intelligence material into the fbi. >> ken, donell, thanks to both of you. sleepwalking into dictatorship. that's former congresswoman liz cheney's warning about what's at stake if donald trump gets back into the oval office. that's next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. so caramel swirl is always there for the taking. ♪♪ if you're on medicare, remember,

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former congresswoman liz cheney says that donald trump cannot be allowed to win the presidency again in 2024, warning that the nation could be sleepwalking into a dictatorship. cheney has not ruled out running as a third party candidate. she was on "morning joe." >> there are more people, republicans, democrats, independents, who we have to make sure they understand he is

not a choice. he is not an option. he is not fit for this office. i think that those are the people who are listening, those are the people we have to mobilize and motivate to stand against the danger that he presents. donald trump is not an acceptable alternative. he is not the lesser of two ee -- evils. he is unfit for office. he has shown us what he can do. he cannot be near the oval office again. >> joining me is mark short. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me on. >> do you agree with liz cheney's assessment of the threat donald trump poses if he is re-elected? >> i have respect for liz and her family. i think some of the language is hyperbolic. i don't think that donald trump is looking to become a dictator in the united states. i think he served as president for four years.

there were not moves to create a dictatorship. some of that is hyperbolic. >> speaking of hyperbolic, let me show you some of donald trump's recent comments, using the use of the word vermin to describe his opponents, his enemies. that's a term taken out of nazi playbook. >> i am your retribution. if i happen to be president and i see somebody who is doing well and beating me very badly, say, go down and indict them. on veteran's day, we pledge to you that we will root out the communists, fascists and radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country. >> he talked about cancelling the constitution. he talked about getting rid of the civil service, changing the

justice department, going after what he calls the deep state. i mean, that as described -- quoting extensively from his recent speeches by "the washington post," today "the new york times." there's a lot in there that is alarming a lot of people. >> sure. i'm not saying that there isn't language to be concerned about. i'm in no way looking to defend everything donald trump has said. i'm proud of his record as president. he accomplished a lot of great things for the american people. i would say perhaps most alarming in recent days are comments that suggest he would use the department of justice to attack political enemies. certainly, a lot of his comments are concerning. he also has always been a provocateur and sometimes he says things to grab headlines. i would concur the language is

concerning. i don't think that necessarily means he is looking to become a dictator, which is an exaggeration of where where he stand. >> some people have been writing about the people he would include around him as staff and in his cabinet. he would no longer have people like mike pompeo, like general kelly, general mattis, who he had previously, mike pence, for instance. >> i think for much of the first 3 1/2 years, i think that donald trump was surrounded by strong advisers who i think helped to guide our country and enact policies on tax reform, enact foreign policy, enact supreme court confirmations of true conservatives that i think has made conservatives very proud. the last nine months in many ways i think, it changed course. i think many of the people had left the administration. i think what we ended up with on

january 6 in some ways was a reflection of not having the same voice of conservatives around him that he had had for the first 3 1/2 years. i think that is more representative of what perhaps a second term could look like. >> that's what is concerning people, the last nine months is more representative of what the next term would look like. liz cheney spoke about a january 6 phone call in which trump lawyers were briefing surrogates about plans for january 6. they suggest the former vice president could refuse to count the elector votes. she learned that pence's team was alarmed by that call. let's watch. >> as i got off that call, i ran into the capitol, into the office of the parliamentarian of the house to say, wait a minute, this is what i'm hearing is going to happen. what do we do in the joint session? how do we stop this?

the vice president ultimately, of course, did his duty bravely. if you are in a joint session of congress, you are not in a position where there are a lot of legislative steps that you can take, except to basically move to adjourn. it was a very dangerous and chilling moment. >> do you recall that? that phone call or the actions that the vice president took as a result of it? >> sure. i will be proud of the actions that the vice president took on january 6 in defending the constitution. i think that that really was a conversation that a lot of people focused on that one day. it was a buildup over a couple of weeks. in many cases, we were at the center of that. we are privy to a lot of conversations with, i think, some crackpot lawyers. it was a keystone cops operation. nonetheless, troubling. i think it was -- the president was surrounding himself with

people who are not giving the best advice. there wasn't that sort of infrastructure around him that would help to shield and protect from people who really should not have been in the president's -- whispering in the president's ear at that point. i think it created a tragic day on january 6. as far as the exact call on january 4th, i think there were a couple weeks of those pressure campaigns that were put on the vice president's office. ultimately, proud that the vice president defended his constitutional role on that day. >> there's a republican debate again tomorrow night. with thechristie making the sta. no donald trump. what do you think of the field right now? is there a possibility that mike pence might be endorsing anyone soon? >> i really don't want to speak for him. i think -- i'm not aware of any plans to endorse any time soon. i do think that what has

transpired over the last several months is with each new indictment, i think republican voters have rallied around donald trump. even though there are debates ongoing, i think that donald trump's percentage continues to grow. i think there's a lot of conversation that says, you need to get down to one candidate. but i think that's a simplistic view. it seems that as each candidate gets out, more support goes to donald trump. i think that's particularly the case with ron desantis. if he were to leave the house, more of his support would go back to donald trump. i think that we are headed toward a rematch that we had in 2020, unless something remarkable happens that's unforeseen at this point. >> mark short, good to see you. thanks very much for being with us. >> thanks for having me. nicolle wallace will have more with liz cheney on "deadline white house" today at 4:00 eastern on msnbc.

the brutal accounts of sexual assaults against israeli women. that's next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. mitchell reports." this is msnbc. the subway series is getting an upgrade. the new #33. the teriyaki blitz. with double cheese and teriyaki-marinated meat. it's like a perfect steak spiral in the double cheese coverage. if you say so, peyton. who knew the subway series could get even better?

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we've got questions for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. about medicare plans. well, we've got a lot of answers! how can i help? well for starters, do you have a medicare plan i can actually afford? how about a plan with a $0 monthly premium well — that's a great start. what other benefits can we get? things like dental, vision and hearing. but, let me help you pick the plan that's right for you. don't wait call 1-888-65-aetna to get answers to your questions and pick a plan that's right for you and let's make healthier happen, together. israel accused the u.n. of moving too slowly to respond to reports that hamas carriedut widespread sexual violence against women durg its october 7 attack. nbc news is reporting that they collected testimony of rape and

sex crimes from witnesses and first responders who were present during or after the atrocities took place. including accounts of mutilation and torture. they marched monday at the u.n. >> the world has to decide who to believe. do we believe the hamas spokesperson who said rape is forbidden, therefore it couldn't have happened on october 7th? or do we believe the women whose bodies tell us how they spent the last minutes of their lives? >> joining me now is anna schter and former senior cia officer

mark polimoropolous. anna, you wrote the article. we both watched the video that was compiled from october 7th. the israelis put that together. it was clear from watching that what had happened to those women. >> yes. there were multiple images of women who were bleeding, their pants bloodied. images of women naked from the waist down. a photo i reviewed of a girl naked from the waist down. another image of two women found in a kibbutz, their hands tied, naked on the bed. this is what the first responders found. what there is few of are eyewitness testimonies. but i have reviewed a video testimonial of a woman who played dead at the festival and

watched as a woman was raped by multiple hamas militants before she was shot in the head. >> it seemed to me from watching the video, from what we heard from people -- first responders, is that likely these women were raped, then killed. >> yes. >> mark, let's listen to what matt miller had to say about this yesterday. >> we have seen the reports that hamas has committed sexual violence, they committed rape. we have no reason to doubt those reports. when you look at all the atrocities that hamas carried out on october 7th and the atrocities they carried out since, the fact that they continue to hold women hostages, the fact that they continue to hold children hostages, it seems one of the reasons they don't want to turn women over that they have been holding hostage and the reason this pause fell apart is they don't want those women to talk about what

happened to them during their time in custody. >> they don't have evidence of that, of the fact that think are holding women hostage because they don't want them to tell about the atrocities. but from your experience as an analyst and cia officer, it's very likely. >> this is something that i think we talked about several weeks ago. when the hostages come out, there was likely to be brutal tales of what occurred. now, of course, we are hearing the accounts of what the israelis presented at the u.n. yesterday. that makes sense that hamas would not want to release some of the hostages. after all, if you recall when the head of mossad was in doha, they left because it was clear hamas didn't want to release women and children. there's one thing that's important. these are barbaric tales, but this will resonate inside israel. that has to do with two things.

a sense of resolve and a will to fight. the israeli forces, 300,000 of whom are deployed now, certainly have a clear understanding of what they are up against. i think this is going to steel and harden israeli resolve. when there's talk in the international community of cessation of hostilities, that's not even in the thinking of israeli officials or frankly in american officials as well. ultimately, hamas has to be degraded to the point where they can't carry out such an attack like this again. >> sexual violence like this is a war crime. what can be done to hold people accountable? >> you are right, andrea. it's a war crime. sexual and gender-based violence, we have seen this before by the islamic state. there needs to be accountability. there needs to be a thorough investigation to establish that there is rule of law. these are among the most

egregious acts that can occur in wartime, really at any time. this is a deliberate action. it's not only the physical act, it's a psychological impact, which is a big part of terrorism. >> secretary blinken announced a new policy. they will have more details coming up in the briefing today. this is new policy to place visa restrictions on extremist settlers in the west bank who, according to the department, are undermining peace, security and stability there. this will stob them from going back and forth from the west bank to the u.s. >> yeah. even in israel, the settler issue is very and a lot of israelis are really upset that settlers are stirring that pot, making it more difficult for them to tell their story from october 7th. so, i think what the u.s. is trying to do is put -- to tamp down on this very extreme group of israelis that are making it

difficult for the rest of israeli society. >> ana schechter, you've done so much reporting on this, the whole war, so thank you very much. it has been weeks and weeks of really hard work. and infiltration, a former u.s. ambassador arrested and accused of being a secret agent for cuba. what the security break means. that's coming next. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. you're watching "l reports. this is msnbc. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ if your moderate to severe crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms are stopping you in your tracks... choose stelara® from the start... and move toward relief after the first dose... with injections every two months. stelara® may increase your risk of infections, some serious, and cancer. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection,

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breaking news from capitol hill, north carolina congressman patrick mchenry has announced he will retire at the end of his term. mchenry, a top kevin mccarthy lieutenant, spent three weeks as the temporary house speaker after mccarthy was ousted earlier this year. this is a string of exits in both parties from congress. a former u.s. ambassador is under arrest and charged with secretly working for cuba for

more than 40 years. victor manuel rocha, top diplomat in the u.s. embassy in havana, adviser for six years at the pentagon, and someone who also worked briefly at the white house, is accused of working as a covert agent for cuban intelligence without registering as a foreign lobbyist. attorney general merrick garland said the arrest, quote, exposes one of the highest reaching and longest lasting infiltrations of the united states government by a foreign agent. joining me now is jim popkin, the author of "code name blue run," the true story of american's most dangerous female spy and the sister she betrayed. that was also, as you know, you have dug into that and revealed the extraordinary story of the woman who was an agent in the pentagon for cuba, for some 20 years, this is 40 years at a high level, an ambassador, completely vetted, and apparently from the day he started at the foreign service he was working for cuba. >> it is really -- yeah, andrea,

it is a really shocking, shocking arrest, as you said. nearly 40 years. very rare to have an ambassador at this level with those kind of allegations against him. but this really speaks to the professionalism and the success rate of the dgi, the cuban intelligence service. they placed anna montes at the dia, an arm of the pentagon. she was there, successfully spied for 17 years for cuba. they had rocha here as an ambassador. he was with the state department for 20 years. another top state department official, kendall myers, also spied successfully with his wife for decades, for cuba. and another woman at usaid, an arm of the state department, martha velasquez was also a spy for cuba, she's never been convicted, but indicted by the

justice department and is living freely in sweden these days. so, it is a really remarkable showing by cuba, who i think we, as a country have underestimated for many, many years. >> and there is such an intersection of big powers, you know, in havana. you could see why intelligence would be a focal point there and why cuba would be so interested in intelligence about the u.s. how did the fbi catch him? i read from the unsealed indictment that three times in the last couple of years he had been talking to undercover fbi guys who he thought were cuban agents. >> the fbi is a little coy in the criminal complaint about how this came to them. they only said that essentially it was a tip that came in november of last year. and they placed an undercover informant in, posing as a cuban

agent, essentially, in miami to reach out to rocha. and they met at least three times. and this is when rocha started to blab essentially. he believed that he was talking to someone, who was officially representing the cuban government, and he began to blab about everything that he allegedly has done for, i think, 42 years. many of which were after his government service. he left the state department in 2002. it is quite incriminating what he said, including that this amounted to a grand slam what he had provided over the years to cuba. and what is happening now behind the scenes is, you know, the state department, cia, and elsewhere, determination of what he likely revealed for decades and decades. it clearly would have been the identities of officials working undercover in cuba and

elsewhere, programs that the united states had against cuba and other adversaries as well, so the damage assessment is going on now, but it is going to be very difficult because he left in 2002. >> jim popkin, another extraordinary story, another book for you. thank you for being with us. and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." remember, follow the show on social media at mitchell reports. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. israel lay siege to one of the largest cities in gaza and was once seen as a safe haven. what happens now to the thousands of palestinians trying to flee through an active war zone? plus, new details that link those gold bars to both senator bob menendez and the businessman accused o