a lot going on and we appreciate you spending time with us. you can always connect with me beyond the show online at ari melber, we have been posting new stuff there, or you can subscribe to my new newsletter. put your email in and i'll send you stuff occasionally. if the internet is not for you, you can skip all that and just tune back in with us tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern. don't go anywhere. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now.

tonight on "the reidout" -- >> he was actually willing to do whatever it took to stay in power. and i think although i certainly regret my support for him, there's no question now that anyone could say we don't know what he'll do. you know, maybe we can trust he'll uphold the constitution. every day, he tells us what he'll do. >> liz cheney speaks of her regret for supporting trump for years. and warned about the consequences if trump returns to the white house. and there is a very interesting new filing from special counsel jack smith regarding trump's long history of lying about election fraud going all the way back to 2012. also tonight, one of trump's georgia codefendants, remember, the one who used to work for kanye, may have jeopardized her bond by appearing to threaten witness ruby freeman on instagram. but we begin tonight with making the case against donald

trump. as more and more warnings about the dangers of a second trump presidency pile up, a new legal filing today in jack smith's election subversion case shows prosecutors hope to present a more sweeping range of evidence of trump's lies about election fraud than previously thought. in this new filing, federal prosecutors say the government will offer evidence reflecting the defendant's historical record of making such claims, for example, as early as november 2012. the defendant issued a public tweet making baseless claims that voting machines had switched votes from then candidate romney to then candidate obama. during the 2016 presidential campaign, the defendant claims repeatedly with no basis that there was widespread voter fraud, including through public statements and tweets. the defendant's false claims about the 2012 and 2016 elections are admissible, the office of jack smith says, because they demonstrate the defendant's common plan of

falsely blaming fraud for election results he does not like. as well as his motive, intent, and plan to obstruct the certification of the 2020 election results and illegitimately retain power. the new filing also shows that prosecutors intend to tie trump to the violence on january 6th more deliberately than in the government's august indictment against trump. writing that evidence of the defendant's post conspiracy embrace of particularly violent and notorious rioters is admissible to establish the defendant's motive and intent on january 6th, that he sent supporters including groups like the proud boys, whom he knew were angry, and whom he now calls patriots, to the capitol to achieve the criminal objective of obstructing the congressional certification. the nine-page filing argues allowing certain evidence predating his alleged crime is relevant to illustrate motive and intent, and it comes as one

of trump's congressional investigators turned chief critic in the republican party continues to sound the alarm about a potential second trump dictatorship. >> the challenge that we're facing now is clearly understanding and recognizing he means what he says. the people who invaded the capitol frankly on january 6th, you know, you can look at scores of those defendants who said we came because he told us to come. he told us to do this. he knows people will follow his instructions. and if he's elected again, those guardrails, those individuals, for example, who stopped him, won't be there. and think about what it means to have a president who won't enforce the rulings of the courts. >> it's insane. >> it will be the unraveling of our constitutional system. >> liz cheney told my friend and colleague nicolle wallace she would do whatever it takes to defeat donald trump but she's also not ruling out running for president herself. she told "the washington post" she's weighing a potential third party run, saying we face threats that could be

existential to the united states, and we need a candidate who is going to be able to deal with and address and confront all of those challenges. according to cheney, a major threat is the trump enablers who control the house, including house speaker mike johnson, and the possibility that he and the rest of the maga loyalists in the house would try to subvert election results in january 2025 if trump is in fact the republican nominee. in the meantime, house republicans are doing their part to subvert the election in real time, moving forward with a vote to formalize an impeachment inquiry into president biden, still with no evidence. the house is expected to vote next week before leaving town for the holiday recess. over the weekend, house oversight chairman james comer expressed confidence that's what's left of the house republican moderates, whatever that means at this point, will get on board with a vote this time because of angry constituents at walmart over the thanksgiving holiday. he also continues to roll out

increasingly mind-melting justifications for their evidence for impeachment, including what he called new evidence, claiming hunter biden was funneling money to his father, which friend of the show david corn pointed out was actually reported months ago and doesn't look anything like an impeachable offense. >> that's bull crap. look, if he wanted to send his money to his son for a truck, then send him money for his truck. but he got paid back from china. so it doesn't matter whether all this money we're showing going into joe biden's back pocket was aa loan or not, you can loan people money. if they pay you back, you benefitted directly. >> meanwhile, one donald trump superfan republican sycophant in the house, texas congressman troy nehls who you would be forgiven for not remembering led a push to nominate donald trump as house speaker, troy nehls went ahead and said the quiet part out loud about the real

reason for the republican push for impeachment. he told usa today if trump is in fact the republican nominee, he wants to give trump, quote, a little bit of ammo to fire back and say that biden has also been impeached. joining me now is republican former congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania, and christina greer, associate professor of political science at fordham university and a public scholars fellow at the city college of new york. thank you both for being here. charlie dent, i do want to start with you. let's go back. i want to go back to this filing. it's very short. everyone should take a chance to read it. in it, what jack smith is laying out is that donald trump didn't just start being an election denier when he lost. he started back in 2012 when mitt romney lost. i want to play a little bit of donald trump in 2016, four years after that, and in 2020, doing what jack smith says he did, which is continuing to say he will only accept election results that favor him.

>> win, lose, or draw in this election, will you commit here today for a peaceful transferral of power after the election? there has been rioting in louisville, rioting in many cities across this country, red and your so called red and blue states. will you commit to making sure there is a peaceful transferral of power after the election? >> we're going to have to see what happens. i have been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster. >> i want to ask you here on the stage tonight, do you make the same commitment that you will absolutely -- sir, that you will absolutely accept the result of this election? >> i will look at it at the time. >> this seems relevant because there is a trend that donald trump does not accept elections that don't go the way he wants them to. >> that's true. he may be the first candidate in american history to claim voter fraud when he won. so there's that point. but yeah, this filing by jack

smith just rehashes all the greatest hits. refusal to commit to a peaceful transfer of power, falsely claiming fraud where there really wasn't any of any significance. so we have heard many times before, telling the proud boys to stand back and stand down, how he more or less instigated them and basically supported them in their attack on the capitol. i think this re-enforced jack smith's case. i wouldn't want to be donald trump and his lawyers now because it's a powerful argument. >> yis tina, the kind of does show you what bonds donald trump to his base. the reason that donald trump claimed fraud in 2016 is that he lost the popular vote. so he said, that couldn't have happened. there had to have been 3 million illegal aliens voting in california because there is an -- there is a disgruntalment among certain people in this country that demographically it's very difficult for republicans to win the national popular vote because the demographics don't work out for them that way and they're mad about it.

>> right. this is why they love the electoral college still. but i think no one was more surprised that donald trump won than donald trump. that's why he was adamant during the debates that he would not necessarily support the rule of law during the 2016 election. and then when it actually did go his way through the electoral college, he oh, okay, as charlie said, on the one hand he's saying there's widespread election fraud, but he's also benefitting from it. this is persistent, consistent donald trump, the hero and victim of his own story, and sadly, we have far too many republicans, liz cheney, who went along and continue to still go along with too many of his antics and we're getting dangerously close to a november 2024 deadline where donald trump realistically could be the republican nominee, and win another term in the presidency, which bodes horribly for our democrat, republic, joy. >> charlie dent, what do you make of the fact liz cheney says he will do anything in her power to stop donald trump from winning, but she won't say

she'll vote for joe biden. she's contemplating running herself. she's hedging on what she'll do to stop him. >> i think one of the challenges house republicans faced over the years, i was one of the few, i did not support donald trump in 2016, i voted for joe biden in 2020. i found too many of my former colleagues felt as i did but didn't want to say it publicly. they would rather stand behind closed doors and complain to each other. i'm glad liz is where she is. she has been very brave and heroic. it would be useful if she did try to run. if it's a binary choice, trump/biden, i would choose biden. it may not be a binary choice, and there are a lot of republicans who would like to vote for someone we're comfortable with. i understand the arguments against, but no labels is helping to develop a ballot access strategy that would allow

an independent candidate to run. >> let me ask you this question. liz cheney said it in her interview with nicolle wallace. she said i supported the policies. whenever i hear someone say that, i would like to know what policies? which policies do republicans say they would vote for him to continue? >> other than the tax reform, i'm not sure. because i have often said, i did not support trump, i did not support a lot of his policies. i did not support his view on nato, i did not support his protectionist trade views. a long list of things he did that were really annoying to me as a matter of republican litmus test on trade, for example, and people just went along with this naked protectionism, subsidies for agriculture, all sorts of things he had endorsed that i thought were wrong-headed and flew in the face of republican principles. just his whole turning back on the international order that republican presidents, ronald reagan most notably, defended fiercely, and trump was just in the wrong place. >> it is interesting, i would love for somebody to tell me

what policies they meant. then there's the authoritarianism. let's play a little bit of that. >> i am your warrior. i am your justice. and for those who have been wronged and betrayed, i am your retribution. >> we pledge to you that we will root out the communists, marxists, fascists and radical left thugs that live by vermin in the confines of our country. >> nobody has ever seen anything like we're wincing now. it's a sad thing for our country. it's poisoning the blood of our country. >> very simply, if you rob a store, you can fully expect to be shot as you are leaving that store. shot. >> i mean, christina, this is, you know, poisoning the blood stuff sounds like nazi talk to me, and on top of that, he's nursing these conspiracy

theories that somehow the federal government really did january 6th. they're cheering on january 6th. what is he talking about? why as a political scientist, is that such a powerful argument for people or at least not an argument to vote against someone? >> yeah, joy. well, there are a few things going on here. one, we really never have seen a candidate like donald trump, someone who attacks his own party. he's just -- he is unlike other candidates in a lot of ways. two, we know that so many people in this country are ahistoric. the use of vermin when you're talking about in the blood, these are things that some of us who study history remember from the 1930s and '40s, and it's clear as day to us, but not to others. and then this third piece, joy, that's really troubling, is that when you think about white evangelicals, they actually do see donald trump as essentially their savior, and so when he starts using this religious type language that is kind of

fire-and-brimstone, that's quite popular with republican primary voters. in the past, we have always seen voters go to the polls based on pocketbook issues. financially, how do you feel? charlie mentioned tax breaks. many democrats love those tax breaks as well. but we know that didn't trickle down to the vast majority of republicans who are his die-hard supporter. in many ways it's just white supremacy that is feeding this. lyndon baines johnson told us all about it when he talked about the white man's pockets as long as you can help them think they're better than the negro. donald trump has tapped into all of these things simultaneously, to say nothing, he's been in people's living rooms for about 25, 30 years as this successful person, which we all know he hasn't been. it's a perfect storm when also you have a feckless republican party who will say behind closed doors we don't like this, but won't stand up to donald trump

when it matters. >> what do you make of the fact they're admitting on the republican side and trump is admitting the only reason they want to impeach biden is to make it even steven. >> they haven't done a good job making the impeachment argument. they made a good argument to impeach hunter biden but he's not a federal official. this is their problem. they were starting to move down that track, and then the speaker got removed from office, and they lost their momentum. so i think they want to have this arrow in their quiver. i'm not sure it helps so much. it might help biden a little bit. >> thank you very much. charlie and christina. up next on "the reidout," trump's civil fraud trial may be winding down, but wait, there's more. plenty more to keep his attorneys busy and give the rest of us hope some day he may be held accountable for his treasonous activities. and here. not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure

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i'm not a lawyer, but even i anyhow if you're under indictment and facing a trial, it is best not to speak publicly about the case for fear of hurting one's own defense. we know donald trump has not learned that lesson leading to two gag orders put in place and some of his codefendants in the georgia election interference case have decided to follow his lead. there's harrison floyd, leader of black voices for trump, who almost saw his bond agreement revoked, after prosecutors argued his intimidated witnesses in the case, and now trevian kutti, the former publicist for

kanye west, appears to be doing the same. kutti faces charges involving pressuring ruby freeman to falsely confess to trump's baseless voting fraud claims or face dire consequences. last week, kutti took to instagram live and while never referring to freeman by name, appeared to directly threaten her. >> everybody is a lie, there's no murder weapon. there's a woman sitting somewhere who knows this whole thing is a lie, who knows i never did anything -- who knows i never -- who knows she begged me for help. there's a woman sitting somewhere who knows that i'm going to [ bleep ] her whole life up when this is done. >> joining me now is katie phang, host of the katie phang show on msnbc. i think we're both smh'ing. this was her mugshot. the other thing she said in this live is that she practiced this, that this was purposeful. >> for two hours.

>> she wanted to look like this. yeah. i'm just going to let you talk, katie, because i'm not a lawyer, but i know that was dumb to do an instagram live and basically threaten the witness maybe again. go ahead, talk. >> so when i was a prosecutor, i used to tell juries, i can't promise to give you a smart defendant, but i'm giving you a defendant. and that's trevian kutti. she's not a smart defendant. none of them can be smart if they drank the trump coolaid and helped a conspiracy to do what they did. but trevian kutti, you mentioned it in the setup, the one possible out she may have is that she didn't actually refer to ruby freeman by name. but we're not stupid and neither is judge mcafee, and certainly not d.a. fani willis. and so the reason why i say that is fani willis could seek revocation of trevian kutti's bond status because her bond conditions that kutti stipulated

to, she agreed to, is that she's not allowed to threaten, intimidate, harass any victim, any witness, any codefendant in the case. what's problematic is she posts on social media as well. not just instagram live, she posts on twitter as well. and so she's just inviting more trouble. and she is -- it's an indication of a systemic problem we're having with these codefendants in fulton county running from trump to harrison floyd to trevian kutti. they don't keep their mouths shut. they're making the case easier for fani willis. why? because why would she be threatening somebody if she didn't think there was exposure to her if that person opens their mouth and testifies. the other stupidity that comes into play, they're being prosecuted as part of a larger rico conspiracy, but she's being prosecuted for threatening ruby freeman. what does she do on instagram live? threaten ruby freeman. it's consistency, but i'll give her an f for intelligence kwh it

comes to dealing with the criminal prosecution. >> black on black crime is way before its time. it strikes me these two black defendants, two blacks for trump, both seem obsessed with ruby freeman and her daughter. it wasn't enough for them to allegedly harass them and cause them to get death threats, joining the former mayor of new york in doing that, and he's getting sued for it, rudy. if that wasn't enough, they seem obsessed with them. could that become an issue? because he, mr. blacks for trump, avoided being jailed. he got through, could this judge now be so fed up that he decides to make an example of ms. kutti? >> no, because you can't be -- the sins of another cannot be imputed to you. mcafee is not going to punish kutti if the law isn't met, if the standard isn't met by fani willis. but is it kind of setting the tone for perspective jurors to

see that these defendants are so reckless that they're willing to continue their intimidation and harassment tactics to be able to achieve an end goal? because the end goal is to intimidate them to not testify. the one thing we find, joy, is somebody like rudy freeman and shaye moss, they have already stood up to this intimidation. they have already said, not on my watch, i won't let democracy be hurt by you. and so it's foolish if you think about it. it's not like they haven't already been tested, ruby freeman and shaye moss, and delivered what they can and which they will continue to do, justice. >> jack smith, there is this new filing here today, but there's also a story that jack smith plans to introduce evidence trump has been lying about elections since 2012. what do you make of this filing that he's going to now introduce his prior claims of election fraud dating back to 2012 before

he was even a candidate? >> so this is a really fascinating i guess piece of ammunition in the arsenal of a prosecutor. normally the rule of evidence says you cannot introduce evidence of prior bad acts, crimes of the defendant, because we don't want juries to convict a defendant because it seems like they have a propensity to commit a crime of a certain nature. however in this particular instance when you have the facts of another crime or bad conduct that is, quote, inextricably intertwined meaning jack smith can't tell the full story of the commission of what happens in terms of the indictment of what donald trump is facing, a judge can allow it to come in. another example is when you say, you know what, it wasn't like donald trump was just walking along and stumbled on to an insurrection, like he stumbled on to a conspiracy, so the judge can allow the evidence in to say donald trump had this plan or this scheme that has spanned

years. it started in 2012. it culminated in 2021, even into 2022. it continues to this day. a judge can allow a prosecutor to let that evidence in, so a jury understands there was no mistake. it was a plan, it was motive. it was all consistent conduct, and that's the reason why it can be introduced. >> we love chatting with katie phang. thank you very much. much appreciated for helping us unpack this. >> still ahead, israeli forces carry out the most intense assault and air strikes on gaza. so far, amid skyrocketing concerns about the civilian casualties. we'll be right back. jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? her credit's golden. hello new apartment. three jens getting ahead with chase. solutions that grow with you. one bank for now. for later.

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israeli troops entered the first target in israel's expanded ground offensive in southern gaza. claiming they were engaged in the most intense day of battle since the ground war began nearly a month ago. the attack has been ferocious and includes areas where palestinians have been told to seek shelter. according to the associated press, a strike today destroyed a house where dozens of displaced people were sheltering. at least 34 people were killed including at least six children. an a.p. reporter at the hospital counted the bodies. israel claims they must dismantle the extensive military infrastructure of hamas after they launched their october 7th surprise attack. where militants killed some 1200 men, women, and children.

although as "the washington post" reports today, the militant group remains largely intact. gaza civilians, however, are paying the price, with more than 15,000 killed so far, mostly women and children. a senior israeli intelligence officer told an independent magazine in the region that the goal was to kill as many hamas operatives as possible for which the criteria around harming palestinian civilians was significantly relaxed. according to the u.n.'s humanitarian office, the past few days have brought some of the heaviest bombardment so far, leaving apocalyptic scenes in gaza. nbc news reports on monday, the main telecom company said all services were shut down in central and southern gaza, however, services were restored today. humanitarian agencies and first responders have warned blackouts jeopardize rescue efforts and the distribution of aid. over the weekend, vice president kamala harris conducted talks with regional players about the challenging issue of what happens after this is over.

several biden administration sources told david rauf cough would expect a key change in the government. it is fair to say that all see his likely departure following cessation of hostilities in gaza as a positive development. netanyahu's corruption trial resumed on monday. according to polling in november, his popularity has plummeted in israel. last week, "the new york times" reported israeli forces were warned of the october 7th attack more than a year ago. many israelis blame his government for the failure. joining me is david, columnist for the daily beast and host of the deep state radio podcast. good to see you. let's talk about the netanyahu factor. he's facing a corruption trial, it was on hold while hostilities were being conducted but it's back on. talk about how the administration sees him, because they sure did bear hug him in the beginning.

>> i think to be fair, they bear hugged israel. the response to the president was that the israeli people had gone through a horrific trauma, and that the united states, which has long been allied with israel, would step up and defend its friend. i don't think there was any love lost between them and netanyahu, even early on here. but what's happened over the course of the past couple months is that netanyahu has systematically ignored the warnings of the united states to stick within the rules of international warfare, and as you said, the toll in gaza has been horrifically high. the problem is, netanyahu is very unpopular in israel. and is likely to lose his job when the fighting stops. so what does that mean for him? he wants the fighting to go on. he's got an incentive to drag this out, and of course, the longer he does that, the higher

the toll in gaza. and the more tension between the united states and the israelis. i think that's a big problem that's looming days or weeks from now, and that is when does this reach a breaking point? when can the united states no longer tolerate a situation? you mentioned the number of deaths. tens of thousands have been injured. 1.8 million gazans out of 2.2 million have had to leave their homes. 100,000 buildings in gaza have already been destroyed. and there's every sign that the fighting in the south is going to be more intense, and the civilian tolls are going to be higher. >> the change in the administration's rhetoric has been really led in some ways by vice president kamala harris. i want to read what her message was, sort of behind the scenes to the israelis. it says the strong behind the scenes message to the israelis is as the gaza campaign

continues in the south, it must learn the lessons of the north. as for the west bank, the conversation referenced u.s. concerns including israeli settler efforts as well as growing violence in the region between settlers and palestinian residents. we have seen settlement activity continue, and really accelerate in the west bank, while gaza is being pummeled and settlers attacking palestinian residents and throwing them off their land, et cetera, planting their flag and taking people's homes. does the united states have any leverage to stop that? this is not something new. this has been going on for a long time. it's only an accelerated practice. can the united states do anything about it? >> the united states has leverage, of course. the united states provides a lot of aid to israel. and the united states is seen as israel's key ally in the world. the united states could withhold some of that. thus far, the united states has not been willing to do that. the question is, how far can netanyahu push this

administration? i think when the vice president was in the middle east, she spoke with a whole array of regional leaders, plus the president of israel, plus the head of the palestinian authority. and i think the message from the regional leaders was, you know, we would like to help look at a solution, but first, the fighting has got to stop. then there's got to be a political change, and it's got to affect both gaza and the west bank. and ultimately, we need to see both of those parts of the world under one authority. netanyahu, for 20 years, has been trying to pry apart the palestinian people, weaken them by pitting hamas against the palestinian authorities, and that's got to stop. there's no way to have a political solution unless there's one legitimate government speaking for the palestinians. >> we have the prospect of potentially having a president who is under multiple

indictments. here is what netanyahu is facing, accusation of fraud and breach of trust. he and his wife received lavish payments from prominent individuals in return for political favors. another breach of trust case in exchange for favorable legislation, he would slow the growth of a rival newspaper. fraud breach of trust and bribery, netanyahu granted regulatory favors to israel's leading telecom company in exchange for positive coverage. if he gets convicted, then what? >> well, you know, i think netanyahu is going to have to leave office sooner rather than later. i think at the end of this fighting, i think that may be in a matter of a couple months, he may only have a few months more than that. but once he leaves office, the question is what replaces him. it is unlikely to be a radically different government. it may not have him, it may not have some of his more odious

cabinet members, but it is likely to still have a substantial component from the right, and it is still going to be resistant to the kind of changes that are necessary for long-term stability, and that has to do with getting to a two-state solution. >> and that is the answer that everyone knows is the answer that no one can seem to get to. david, always a pleasure. thank you for being here. coming up, florida republicans try to figure out what to do about the rape allegation against their leader, christian ziegler, as we learn more about the power couple's tied to anti-lgbtq organizations. a full update is ahead. ad

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. the florida republican party is in crisis mode over a scandal that has officially spun out of control. we brought you this story last night, remember, this is the florida republican party chairman, christian ziegler, who is under criminal investigation for allegations related to sexual battery including rape. this is according to a complaint filed with the sarasota police department. a heavily redacted 13-page police report released thursday includes mention of rape and the phrase sexual battery. ziegler has denied the allegations and his attorneys say, quote, mr. ziegler has been fully cooperative with every request made by the sarasota police department and we're confident once the investigation is concluded that no charges will be filed and mr. ziegler will be completely exonerated. the investigation began with a

911 call from a friend of the alleged victim who was worried about her wellbeing. back in october, the friend requested a wellness check for the victim. we have partially redacted audio of the call which was first published by the florida center for accountability. the sarasota police department has not confirmed the call. >> tell me exactly what happened. >> so, this friend of mine, she has struggled with addiction for a while. and it's just gotten worse and worse. but she's telling me, she won't talk to anyone else, won't answer anyone else at work except for me, but she told me she was raped yesterday. and that she's scared to leave her house, but she's saying she's scared that the person who raped her came to her house, and she's scared to leave. >> the story gets even thornier because christian ziegler is married to bridget ziegler. she is the cofounder of moms for

liberty, the extremist group on the front lines of the education culture wars. their mission is to ban any book that mentions race, gender orientation or anything out of the scope of white christian heterosexual humanity. they were able to get a search affidavit. "the washington post" reported, quote, in early october, the alleged victim had agreed to have a sexual encounter with ziegler which was to include his wife, but when the woman learned bridget couldn't make it, she changed her mind and canceled. when ziegler told her in one message his wife was no longer available, she replied, sorry, i was mostly in it for her. she said in a message, according to the affidavit. bridget ziegler was not named in the complaint against her husband, but the affidavit confirmed having a sexual encounter with the victim and christian over a year ago and it only happened one time. quite the confession from

someone who espouses the anti-lgbtq agenda she and her moms for liberty cohorts are famous for. even more insidious, bridget ziegler is part of the crusade to empower christian organizations to overhaul public education in florida. back in april, she proposed using the term vermilion education to review texts, library books and polpolicies, opponents were concerned about its connection to hillsdale college. the board eventually voted against hiring vermilion. here's what ziegler said after the board denounced her proposal. >> that's constantly used. that's not happening. we have staff, we saw a whole process actually work its way through here. when we use that kind of rhetoric, that language, it's wrong, and it creates division, and it's unfair. that's what derails us. and that's a lot of why bringing in someone to kind of look through things to say hey, we

have a clean bill of health, or there's some areas we could improve upon that keeps us out of the fire. >> and when we come back, we'll hear from one of bridget ziegler's peers at that meeting, sarasota school board member tom edwards along with a reporter who blew the story wide open. e n are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache! oh, look! a bibu. [limu emu squawks.] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i was on a work trip when the pulmonary embolism happened. but because i have 23andme, i was aware of that gene. that saved my life.

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my advice for everyone is to go with golo. it will release your fat and it will release you. >> joining me now is bob norman, straighter the florida center for government accountability, anton edwards, a member of the school board in sarasota county, florida. thank you both for being here. norman, congrats on breaking this story. what we know about the relationship between the alleged victim and this couple? how far does it go back? and how did you all find out about this case? >> will, thanks for having me on, joy. the relationship, as we know it, comes from the affidavit. and from you recorded messages and phone calls between mr.

ziegler and the victim, who we understand is they have known each other, christian, and the victim, for 20 years. not extremely close, but they definitely have known each other for 20 years. the other thing we know is that more than a year ago, at some point, more than a year ago, the ziegler's, christian and brigitte, had a three-way sexual encounter with the woman. and that's just about it in terms of the relationship. in terms of how we got the story, mostly from our colleague in sarasota, michael barfield, the head of public access, who originally dug it up. we just got together and started putting the pieces together and got it out there. >> we're glad you did. tom edwards, the irony of this is striking. the zieglers have been at the

forefront of the don't say gay law. they are allies of governor ron desantis, until he recently called for mr. ziegler to call down step down. i want to take this from a meeting where you were slandered. take a listen. >> mr. edwards appears to be a law breaker and an lgbt coup groomer. i'm calling into an investigation into mr. edwards and the details of him working from the inside to bring about his woke agenda. >> what tom stands for wants to do to our children in this school district isn't what a majority of -- >> everyone, excuse me, calm down. there have been multiple comments about lots of different people. if we just allow the people to speak and move forward. the picking in choosing -- >> [applause] >> i will note those were actually two different room

meetings, march 7th and march 21 where you walked out. talk about what the zieglers have been trying to do and implement in the sarasota school district, and also why you walked out. >> well, joy, thank you so much for having me on. i walked out because the ugly hate lgbtq+ rhetoric didn't affect me personally, although it was directed at me because i am a member of the lgbtq+ community. what i was most concerned about is our children and their lgbtq+ children that would hear that ugly rhetoric and think that they were going to grow up to be groomers or pedophiles. that's unacceptable to me. and so i asked mrs. ziegler to get on the meeting and the comments. she refused, so i had to have to figure quickly on my feet, how can i get this meeting and ugly rhetoric to stop, so i got up and walked out. sure enough, that's what

stopped it. i do to protect our students, protect our students friends and our community from that ugly hate speech. >> you are also in the meeting where ms. ziegler tried to get vermilion hired to consult to the school board and implement what really amounts to a christian nationalist agenda, white christian nationalist agenda. what is it that they, in your view, are trying to do? it seems that at least misses ziegler is in some way, somehow, part of the lgbtq community, or at least sometimes. >> well, you know, what people do in the privacy of their own homes is not my concern. what is mike and sooner serna the student achievement gaps. what i found so horrifying about this process, from the origins of moms for liberty, what i was first elected as a school board member, right through the termination of the school board or superintendent,

and then into introducing hillsdale college white christian nationalism into public education and now this. it's a constant distraction, and frankly, what is the most disturbing is the damage that the zieglers, along with the florida legislature, as caused for our lgbtq+ to guns and the black community, whether it's we have to erase a whitewash black history in order to make sure wait students aren't uncomfortable, or to hear -- all that time period while we are discovering your own identity. >> and i will note that as 80 scores -- have plummeted in the state of florida. they're now ranked 46 in terms of s.a.t. scores. bob norment, i will give you the last word. where does christian ziegler

stand politically, and where does this case stand? >> politically christian ziegler is under tremendous fire. i heard before we came on that rick scott, senator, was really behind his wife's political career. brigitte had not been involved in politics until she put her name in for the school board. it was rick scott who appointed her. it was rick scott who met with her and said you are good, we're going to use you in our movement. rick scott has come out and trolled for christian ziegler's resignation. it's a big step. numerous republican -- across the board. it's really -- right now, with this very serious investigation. >> indeed, where, we're out of time, but we will keep up with this story. thank you bob norman and tom edwards. that's