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it's good to be back with you for the second hour of "chris jansing reports." at this hour, police say they have the prime suspect in custody believed to be behind a violent spree in texas that left six dead and three injured. where that investigation goes from here. in washington, president biden responds to republicans storming out of his cabinet secretaries who were briefing on ukraine. why he says their outrage over the border is completely misplaced. plus, a soft landing? is the fed close to pulling off what a lot of folks thought was impossible, cooling inflation without triggering a recession. some new labor department data that points to that possibility. and overseas, the devastating evidence coming out of the brutal sexual attacks against women on october 7th by hamas. the stories that their bodies tell, that their voices no longer can.

our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. we begin with guad venegas on that string of violent incidents in texas that left six dead and three injured. so what evidence are police looking at to determine whether the same suspect is, in fact, behind all of this? >> reporter: police have not released details as to the evidence they have. we know at some point, two different agencies communicated. the austin police department spoke to the baird county police department. let's go over the time line. this is what we know. they shared plinary information. in the last hour, they released the identity of the man, sha james. this started yes bore 11:00 a.m. when austin police says austin independent sool district police officer was shot just before 11:00 a.m. and injured, then about an hour later, police rd 911 calls for an address where gunshs were heard. when officers arrived, they found a double cideand

then about five hours later, a cyclist reported being shot and injured. two hours after that, there was another 911 call and police reported a burglary in place at a separate address. the officer that arrived found the suspect in the backyard, and says the suspect shot at him. the officer did return fire, but the suspect was able to flea. other officers then chased him as he got in a car and drove away, and eventually crashed where officers detained him. now, the officer that arrived at that second home, he was injured and taken to a hospital. now, as all of this happened, other officers went inside of that second home, and found two more people dead inside. now, at some point after all of these shootings took place, austin police contacted the sheriff's department and asked them to check on an address south of the austin area. this in the san antonio area. sheriffs deputies went to check on that address because austin police believed it was connected to the suspect, and they found

two more people dead inside of that home. that's what we have. six people dead, and authorities say are connected to the suspect, and three people injured. as of now, what we know is the identity, again, 34-year-old shane james, but that's the information we have as of now, chris. >> guad venegas, thank you. just an hour ago, president biden urged congress to pass a multibillion dollar aid package to ukraine after republican senators walked out of a briefing on tuesday. nbc white house correspondent monica alba has more on this. monica, from what i have seen, the president isn't very happy about this. >> no, he's not, chris. and just to speak to the urgency of this issue, this was an event, these remarks from president biden. this wasn't on the schedule until very late in the day today, and this really just shows you why he wanted to come out and speak to this himself after coming out and talking to leaders of the g7 this morning, virtually, which included remarks from ukrainian president

volodymyr zelenskyy who is continuing his global call for more support, but of course, u.s. military aid would be critical in this, and the president really continued to talk about today why this moment is so important and why this funding needs to be secured, talking specifically that if this isn't something that is able to be approved by congress, by the end of the year, it really could be beneficial to russia's continued invasion of ukraine. listen to how the president put it from earlier this afternoon? >> this has to be a negotiation. republicans think they can get everything they want without bipartisan compromise. that's not the answer. that's not the answer. and now they're willing to literally kneecap ukraine on the battlefield and damage our national security in the process. >> reporter: what the president is referring to there is this continued conversation about what republicans in the senate

and in the house are trying to ask for here in exchange for getting some of this military aid to ukraine, and that is for some commitment on border security. it's notable, chris, that in these remarks earlier from the president, he said he was willing to compromise on that. he acknowledged that is a pressing issue as well, and he wanted to get something done, and there's room for both of these things to occur, but that in his words, republicans shouldn't be playing politics with this and holding up and he argued, jamming up this process by trying to exact things that neither chamber could possibly approve when it comes to the u.s./mexico border. the president really appealing to lawmakers here. he has said that he has personally called some of them. he's been in touch with them. the white house has been saying these conversations are ongoing, but the timing here is essential, and he is urging congress to do something before they leave for the holiday recess, chris. >> monica alba, thank you. now to some arguably

unexpected thinking that the federal reserve may have successfully tamed inflation without triggering a recession. cnbc's steve liesman joins me for cnbc on msnbc. some economists say the u.s. economy is moving closer to a soft landing. explain what that means and what data backs them up? >> a little bit of background, when the fed raises interest rates it causes the economy to go into a recession. that's been the basic story over the last, most of the post war period, these efforts to fight inflation, they have to cool the economy, they end up cooling it too much, we go into a recession. a soft landing, the concept, can the fed cool the economy, and that seems to be the trajectory we're on. we have had relatively strong growth while the inflation rate has come down, from near double digits to around 3% now.

and now we get new data that shows the economy continues to cool, but not cooling to the recessionary level. we had very good productivity numbers this morning, we had good unit labor costs this morning. the cost per widget so to speak, when those are made by workers. the inflation data has been coming down. the growth has remained pretty robust. we had 5% growth in the third quarter. the current estimates, 2% growth around this quarter. this was a year that many many economists were pretty darn sure we're going to be in a recession. it looks like certainly will escape this year without a recession. there's a 16% chance in a normal year we're going to have a recession regardless of what happens. so far so good, the fed seems to be done raising interest rates, and the good news may be that in inflation falls, the fed can start to lower interest rates.

already, some interest rates in the economy are starting to come down. the ten-year, u.s. benchmark treasury had been as high as 5%. it's now going toward 4%, that could mean lower mortgage rates, interest rates on your credit cards than they have been steve liesman, great to have you on the show. thank you. the horror is almost too devastating to wrap your head around. israeli investigators revealing eyewitness and victim accounts describing women who were sexually assaulted and murdered by hamas on october 7th, evidence that president biden calls appalling. we want to warn you, some of the images and stories you're about to hear are graphic. nbc's hala gorani is reporting from tel aviv. i know you have seen some of this evidence yourself. what should we know? >> reporter: one of the police investigators in charge of trying to piece together exactly what happened on october 7th in

terms of the sexual violence that investigator says was perpetrated against women and in some cases men on that horrific day, there's a clearer picture emerging, and some new disturbing details in the investigation. take a look. on october 7th, hamas attacked within israel's borders with a wave of terror. murdering over 1,200 people including entire families. and israeli investigators say there is growing evidence that hamas unleashed another kind of horror against women. >> something so horrific happened and the world should know. >> we spoke to miriam ben mayor, leading the investigations of repeated rape and sexual assault by hamas. where does your investigation stand? >> we have eyewitnesss that are slowly arriving and giving testimonies. >> reporter: disturbing accounts

about october 7th. including this woman describing how a hamas terrorist, quote, laid a woman down. he is raping her, then they pass her on to another person. telling investigators the woman was alive and bleeding. another chilling eyewitness account from yona, telling the sunday times he was at the music festival where hamas slaughtered hundreds of israeli concert goers, he hid under dead bodies saying he saw a quote, beautiful woman with the face of an angel and eight or ten of the fighters beating and raping her. when they finished, they were laughing, and the last one shot her in the head, he said. hamas has denied committing sexual crimes against women. israeli officials say the investigation is challenging because most victims were killed. but among the evidence seen by nbc news, graphic photos of women's bodies with obvious sign

of sexual assault including some naked from the waist down. >> some of the terrorists that are interrogating, they're saying that this was happening and this was done. >> reporter: first responders describing naked female bodies tied to beds. nbc news also reviewing this hamas document that israeli officials say was carried by hamas militants on october 7th with instructions on how to say take off your pants in hebrew. the u.n. facing backlash for its response, some deemed too slow, including this protest monday. critics blasting the secretary general for taking seven weeks to publicly call for an investigation of hamas and sexual violence. and the agency u.n. women for not putting out a statement until last friday. the agency telling us in part, within days of the horrific attacks, u.n. women began

offering concrete support to the u.n. commission of inquiry which is investigating these matters. >> we feel like the world has turned their backs. >> reporter: miriam runs a rape crisis center in tel aviv and says israel's critics are down playing even dismissing alleged hamas sexual violence. >> you say that people can be opposed to what's happening to palestinians but at the same time they need to be sympathetic with what happened to the women. >> i feel for the suffering of palestinian women. it has nothing to do with the fact that there can never be an excuse for rape. >> reporter: as i mentioned there, one of the big challenges for investigators is most of the women and victims who they say were targeted with sexual violence or raped have passed away, and so what they're having to do is piece together the picture based on forensic examination and eyewitness testimony from people, as you heard in that piece, who were

cowering, sometimes under piles of dead bodies and who are relaying with great difficulty still, because many are still traumatized, exactly what they saw. chris. >> hala gorani, an extraordinarily difficult but important story, and we thank you for bringing it to us. we'll be back in 60 seconds. 'll. the subway series is getting an upgrade. the new #33. the teriyaki blitz. with double cheese and teriyaki-marinated meat. it's like a perfect steak spiral in the double cheese coverage. if you say so, peyton. who knew the subway series could get even better?

as chaos continues to rain on capitol hill, more and more members of congress are heading for the exits. former speaker kevin mccarthy says he will leave congress at the end of this year. the latest in a line of three dozens members who announced they will not run for reelection. including patrick menry who announced yesterday that he is also calling it quits. his democratic colleague, jared moskowitz called mchenry's departure a huge loss. mchenry says congressional

dysfunction is not the reason for his retirement. he seems to be in the minority of people dropping out. retiring colorado republican ken buck has said too many republican leaders are lying to america. his arizona colleague, debbie lesko said right now washington, d.c. is broken. it is hard to get anything done. and senator joe manchin said every incentive in washington is designed to make our politics extreme. let's bring in john kasich, former republican governor of ohio, and he is also an msnbc political analyst. by our count, governor, 35 house members are not running for reelection. mchenry says he's confident the house is in good hands, but is it? >> look, people that are leaving, you know, there's an awful lot of whining going on, i think, chris. in other words, they seem to say more when they leave than when they're there. i was always banking on the problem solvers caucus, and the

no labels people that were going to stand up and do things, but their bark is lot bigger than their bite, and i think the seeds of this, i mean, it's been going on for a while, but the seeds of this started in the beginning when mccarthy had to go a hundred rounds, i'm exaggerating, to get to be speaker. i felt all along that the key to governing in the house was to really push aside the extremists on both sides so that you actually could run the house from the middle. when you stop and think about what's happening right now. it's amazing to me that they can't seem to come up with some reasonable plans on the border, so they can provide the aid to ukraine. and ultimately, a problem related to israel. that's just unbelievable. sometimes i think kids on a playground can work out their differences better than what they're doing in washington. and this puts us at risk in many ways. who's going to come and fill the seats of the people who leave.

it's too hard to say. but what i will tell you, chris, is there have been too many members who have remained silent when they had an opportunity to take divisive action. you see the rise of third parties now in the presidential race. it's a reflection of the fact that people are dissatisfied. and when you think about the number of third parties that are rising up now, kennedy or stein or cornell west or maybe no labels, this could change the complexion of where we end in this election, and a reflection of the frustration of the people and the people need to speak louder to the members that represent them so they can get some degree of normalcy down there. >> i think a lot of people may agree with you on that, but as we look forward, i think this isn't even maybe about the difference between conservatives who are leading and moderates, and many are moderates who have been frustrated and feel they can't be hard, but just people who will listen. as i have been hearing the many interviews, for example, that liz cheney is doing, that she

will sit down with folks on this network, with a more left leaning slant and have a reasonable conversation with them. understand that they disagree on a lot of the issues, but are willing to talk about it. if folks who are willing to do that, whatever, however far left, right, middle they lean. how do you get anything done? >> well, you can't, if the extremists are calling the tune, chris, and by the way, you and i have a lot of conversations, and they're very pleasant. i have a lot of great conversations with andrea mitchell. i feel as though i have been able to say exactly what i think, whether it's criticizing republicans or democrats. but at the end of the day, chris, this is sort of a subset of our overall problem in the country. where people are just not respecting somebody that has a different point of view. and when you can't even respect somebody that has a different point of view, how do you sit

down and negotiate. look, throughout my career, whether as governor, back when i was in congress, i had a lot of very tough conversations, but at the end, we realized, you got to put the country first, and somehow they're losing sight of that. >> you know, tom cole, i think back on january 6th. he's a long-time member, as you know. chuck todd said of him in a new analysis, he has the reputation of being one of the grownups i congress, but then he released a carefully worded statement about his decision not to certify the presidential election, and it read in part, quote, the greatest function of representative is being elected to represent the views of one's constituency. i have been closely studying this issue and listening intently to what my constituents have to say. they have asked me to express their concerns with my vote on the floor today, and as their representative, i intend to do so. does that argument -- >> i don't agree with that philosophy. edmund burke said you owe people

not only your energy and your toil, but also your judgment, and so if what we're going to do is send people to congress who are going to put their finger in the air to figure out which way the wind blows, particularly when the people who have the loudest voices on both sides are the most extreme. and we can think about it and make a case for it on both sides so some degree. when you go to congress, it's not your job to take a poll and vote that way. it's your job to use your judgment, take into account what your constituents want, but you're not there to just be sort of a robot to all of their wishes, and by the way, if you get so far out of touch with the people you represent, they'll vote you out, and another thing on that, chris, when they vote you out, you might actually find that you have life after congress, life after politics. i can tell you, it's pretty good. >> former governor john kasich says that with a smile. >> always fun, chris.

thank you. >> appreciate it. tonight, just four of donald trump's 2024 gop rivals will face off in the fourth republican primary debate. ron desantis, nikki haley, chris christie, and vivek ramaswamy have qualified for that event in tuscaloosa, alabama. while the republican front runner is once again a no show. instead, donald trump will be hosting a private fundraiser tonight, one day after his fox news town hall, saying he would only be a dictator on day one. shaq brewster is at the debate site. what do we expect the candidates to do? are they going after trump for these new comments? >> reporter: it remains to be seen whether those comments from former president trump will make their way on to the debate stage tonight. the former president, again, skipping tonight's debate, and many of the candidates on stage with the exception of former governor chris christie usually shying away from many of those direct engagements, especially with former president trump's

words. but look, when you look at the dynamics of this race. it's really about the positioning for second place. that is the open question right now. you have nikki haley really coming into tonight's debate with the wind at her back. she secured some big endorsements from the republican donor apparatus, polling is increasing, especially when you look at some of those early primary and caucus states in this race, and much of that rise, much of that momentum has come at the expense of florida governor ron desantis. he is looking to stop that momentum from nikki haley and recapture some of that energy that you saw in the early days of his campaign. of course also on stage, we have vivek ramaswamy and chris christie, they're representing two different ends of this republican party. ramaswamy likely to defend donald trump, hug himself to donald trump, while chris christie, if anyone is to bring up comments that the former

president made yesterday, it would likely be former governor chris christie who by all appearances just barely made that debate stage tonight with the polling threshold that was required by the rnc. so all of this will be watched closely. we can expect lots of engagements, lots of back and forth. whether or not this fundamentally shifts the dynamics of this race, when you look at polling and the lead that former president trump has, that of course remains to be seen. chris. >> shaq brewster, thank you. and coming up, a texas woman is taking her pregnancy to court after a devastating diagnosis. the reporter behind that story joins me next. plus, it's no secret, couples share many things, where they live, similar interests, some may even finish each other's sentence, now a compelling new study shows they can also share the same blood pressure. the fascinating details coming up.

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why are we the only birds heading this way? [ screams ] we're trying to get to jamaica. stay close and... everything will be all right. i'm ok. i'm ok. a 31-year-old woman in texas is now asking a judge to let her terminate her pregnancy after learning her fetus has a chromosome anomaly that is almost always fatal. joining me women's health reporter for the texas tribune. eleanor, thanks for being with us. tell us more about this and what

the lawsuit is arguing here. >> the lawsuit is asking a judge here in austin to allow this worm to terminate her pregnancy. she is 20 weeks along and has been told by her doctors that her fetus is unlikely to survive after birth, and continuing the pregnancy potentially poses a risk to her current health and future fertility. they have asked a judge to intervene, grant a restraining order and she has an ob/gyn standing by to perform an abortion. >> we know texas has a strict abortion. what's the state's argument in this case? >> we haven't yet heard arguments in this specific case, but broadly speaking, the state has said the state's abortion laws do not have any exception for cases of lethal fetal anomalies like this one. the state's abortion ban says you can only perform an abortion if the pregnant person's life is

in danger. the center for reproductive rights which has filed this lawsuit, as well as another legal challenge has said that this should extend beyond that to lethal fetal anomalies, and that would actually fall under the medical exception as well. that case is sort of moving through the courts rather slowly, that question. but on this case, they would like very shift action in this one specific instance to allow this woman to terminate her pregnancy. >> is that, eleanor, the texas supreme court case where 20 women and two doctors are challenging the state's abortion laws for complicated pregnancies? >> yes. so there's basically two cases moving through the system right now. one pretty slowly. that's 20 women, two doctors challenging the state's abortion bans on very similar ground saying the medical exception should apply pretty broadly to complicated pregnancies, and doctors should be allowed to exercise that exception with some degree of confidence that it won't be held against them in

court. this case, same argument, broadly speaking, same lawyers behind it, with the center for reproductive right, and this suit is saying this woman cannot wait for the texas supreme court to rule, which could take weeks or more likely months, and they would like swifter action on this one case. >> keep us posted, eleanor klibanof at the texas tribune, thank you. you and your spouse may be more in tune with each other than y know. if you have hypertension, ere's a good chance your spouse might have high blood pressure too. that's according to research blished in the journ of the american heart association. the looked at heterosua couples in four countri around the world. 48% of middle aged or o couples in the u have high blood pressure, while in the u.s., 38% of partners who are in their 50s or older have hypertension. what's a couple to do? the study suggests that couples screen, learn healthy habits and get treatment together.

up next, a new effort to address gun safety in america. we're joined by democratic senator martin heinrich of new mexico to discuss his bill ahead. before we head to break, a tribute to norman lear, the legendary producer behind "all in the family" has died at the age of 101. he passed away tuesday from natural causes at his los angeles home. he career spanned 75 years. "all in the family" alone won 22 emmys. he was awarded the national dal of arts byr president clinton, b snubbed r kennedy center honors when donald trump was president. as a well known political activist last july on his 100th birthday, he wrote ts the "new york times," i often feel disheartened by the direction our politics, courts and culture

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at a time when congress just seems to get more and more divided, a group of democratic senators has proposed a new bill to curb gun violence.

the ghost safe act aims to regulate the internal mechanisms of semiautomatic firearms to make those weapons less lethal without having to outright ban them. joining me now is the lawmaker spearheading this effort, mark heinrich. walk us through exactly what this bill would do. how would it change semiautomatic weapons? >> what we've seen time and again and what we often term assault rifles is the combination of a large capacity magazine with a gas-operated action that can function very very quickly. and it's that combination of being able to fire very quickly and reload very quickly that really contributes to the mass scale of some of the shootings that we're seeing. we limit all of that in a way that's consistent with court rulings, and see this as an opportunity to hopefully turn back the clock on what has been

a horrible rash of mass shootings in recent years. >> you're not necessarily the most obvious person for this, as i can say. you're a lifelong gun owner and permits, i think, it permits the open carry of loaded firearms. but also in 2021, new mexico had the third highest gun death rate among states. it's a situation you know well. but why this, why now in particular? >> well, i really started working on this approach after the las vegas mass shooting, which was one of the worst we had ever seen. and the approach was to really look at the internal mechanisms, not the cosmetics of these firearms. i don't care if a gun has a folding stock or a pistol grip. i care how deadly it is. and these firearms are in the same sort of bucket as things like fully automatic weapons, sawed off shotguns that we have

regulated for nearly a century. and i think it's long past due that we take an approach that's really rooted in the physical mechanisms that make some of these firearms so dangerous. >> yeah, when you talk about las vegas, i covered that shooting. i think it's easy to forget that 60 people died there. i think more than 400 were injured. there was not major change after that. there was not major change after newtown, after sandy hook, where 20 little kids died, six adults died. are you hearing from others? are you hearing from people who have typically been against any kind of regulation of firearms that this might be something that could work for them? >> i'm running into more and more gun owners like myself who just simply think that the status quo is unsustainable. and more and more gun owners who actually own some of these assault style rifles who are

more than willing to, you know, to have them regulated in a way that addresses the kind of carnage we're seeing in state after state. >> let me ask you really quickly, we only have a minute left, but we know that these are the weapons of choice for school shooters, for many other mass shootings. but a lot of people say, you know what, there's so many of them out there already, even a change like this would only be a blip. what would your response be? >> we actually build a voluntary gun buyback program into this legislation. so there are probably between 20 and 30 million of these ar-15 style rifles out in circulation, but over time that number would come down under our legislation. >> senator martin heinrich, we'll keep posted on this, i hope you'll come back and talk about it. thank you. still ahead, those directly impacted by january 6th are reacting to the controversial decision by the house speaker over footage taken that day. we'll talk about it next. 'll tat

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quite a few democrats are expressing shock by house speaker mike johnson's announcement. republicans have decided to blur the video of the january 6th capitol attack before releasing it. so rioters don't get charged. here's congressman jim himes on andrea mitchell reports. >> the speaker of the house of

representatives, the institution that was brutally and violently attacked. i was there. i saw it. is saying we don't want the people who did that to be charged. i mean, words fail me. what is the message that is sent to other people who a year from now or whenever, you know, decide that they want to break windows, attack police officers, and call for the hanging of the sitting vice president. >> nbc justice reporter ryan reilly is covering this story for us. we are seeing some really strong reactions to this decision. what can you tell us about it, ryan? >> yeah, and it's really remarkable because, you know, mike johnson said the quiet part loud here. he said what he actually believes, which is something that is rare in politics these days. it undermines this idea and notion that is being put forward, these conspiracy theories being put forward by some members of congress, this is antifa or dressed up as trump

followers. this is the attack that was what it looked like, trump supporters that believed the election was stolen, attacking the capitol. and i've seen in numerous times the past couple of years, involving the assailants who attacked him. he was brutally attacked over and over and over again on january 6th. here's what he had to say on "morning joe" this morning. >> this is the same person who probably is a material witness to the events of january 6th, and if i were in his position, of course i would also want to blur out some of the images, but then again, this is coming from a party that claims to support law and order and the rule of law. >> now frankly, this won't hold up, the sedition hunters that much because they go for the highest quality images of individuals and they have a lot of footage that has come out through court cases before.

if someone went in the capitol, they can match clothes and get a good face shot of someone outside the capitol. they have already identified about a thousand other rioters who actually have not yet been arrested. the number that have been arrested is 1,200. this would bring us over 2,000 if they were to get to all individuals before the statute of limitations expires in two years. they're going to keep plugging away at this, and say mike johnson's attempt to blur the faces isn't going to hold them but is putting a crimp in the process. it's unclear why he would want to hide individuals who attacked the capitol on january 6th. >> they have been remarkably effective. ryan reilly, thank you. pope francis today said he is much better after battling two weeks of bronchitis but gets tired if he talks too much. the pope asked his aide to read

his speech at the weekly general audience. he did wave to the cheering crowd, speak to people one on one, and make a plea again against war after the remarks. for the last couple of weeks, the pope has conducted the audience from inside the vatican capital to avoid temperature changes that could aggravate his condition. after shattering temperature records for the sixth month in a row, 2023 is on track to be the hottest year the earth has experienced. according to a european climate tracking agency, this november was more than half a degree hotter than just the previous hottest novembe the agency's director told the associated press the last half year is truly shocking. scientists are running out of adjectives to talk about this. ron desantis is taking on a new battle, it has nothing to do with his 2024 presidential rivals or disney. this time, it's college football.

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rustration over college football isn't typically a matter for government, but florida governor ron desantis is making it o and raising new questions about his priorities in the process. after florida state seminoles were left out of the college football playo desantis suggested the state carve out space in the budget to sue, while simultaneously making the case that more than a

thousand state jobs need to be cut to save money. >> what we decided to do, we're setting aside a million dollars for any litigation expenses that may come as a result of this really really poor decision by the college football playoffs to exclude an undefeated team who won big power 5 conference championship. >> let me bring in danny cevallos, criminal defense attorney, msnbc legal analyst, and former collegiate athlete. it's good to see you. >> good to see you. that is a stretch. i barely made michigan's lacrosse team. >> you were on the team. you're in the picture. >> yes, i made it into the picture. >> let's talk about this. who would they sue, what would they sue for, and could they win? >> there's a good argument if they were not in the ncaa, if they were not part of all of these different agreements, internal agreements that you might have a case for antitrust. you might have a case for breach

of contract, but it would get tossed out of court because the schools are part of an organization. the ncaa, the conference, and in doing so, although i haven't seen the contracts, they have implicitly or expressly agreed to abide by the decisions of the higher ups in that group. but make no mistake about it, taken out of the ncaa context or conference context, these would be strong claims. here's the other thing, too, i don't know if they appropriated the funds that they would have the money for the litigation before the championship game was even played. so this may be more of a symbolic statement by governor desantis than anything with a real bite. >> also known as something to make your constituents who love football happy. there's also a plan from the ncaa, and this has been talked about for a long time, should athletes be paid. they're talking about creating a separate division, paying athletes. that's been at the heart of multiple lawsuits. could this take care of those suits?

>> block buster lawsuit, not too long ago, which reflects the growing recognition that these athletes, while their coaches, nick saban gets paid $11 million a year. he's the coach at alabama, a state school, by the way. nick saban is a state employee, as is jim harbaugh and state head coaches. but the players make absolutely nothing, and this is a multi, multibillion dollar industry, and it's the players risking life and limb, when they go out there and are frequently injured, and put completely out of the football career. many of them may not even graduate. so the growing recognition is that these folks need to be paid. this is moved in inches. now they can get name, image and likeness sponsorship, but now the debate is whether or not to pay them as employees. but there is a two-headed controversy here. on the one hand, the players, the football players primarily who bring in all of this revenue should probably be paid something. but here's what would probably happen if you made a broad rule,

and that's why i think it may be a good thing that the president is proposing this two-tier system. listen, instead, at the sports that generate zero revenue. lacrosse is a good example. if you suddenly had to pay them $30,000 a year, you know what the university would do, they would just cancel the program. why bother? they don't make any money. i don't trust the universities to keep these programs that don't generate millions or billions of dollars of revenue if they were forced to pay athletes. this is a tricky situation because on the one hand, the athletes who generate the billions of dollars have to be treated differently than the ones that are student athletes, working hard. they need to be protected as well. >> we saw the move many years ago with the olympics where you used to have to be an amateur athlete, and that went out the window, and people still watch and spend a lot of money to do it. >> danny cevallos, the great lacrosse alum of michigan, which i