is pertinent to us now that in a way that we never thought it would be, that's where we are at this moment. >> do you think the authoritarian stuff helps him politically inside the republican primary? amanda? >> here's what i think. i think it's to the average republican voter who doesn't pay as much attention to the stuff as we do, it projects strength. here's what worries me. it's not just donald trump. what is happened to the larger whatever you want to call a conservative neck work, republican apparatus, there has been this transformation of the party so that traditionally when i came into it, you had brought, expensive government, limited government, limited spending, all this. but now you look at some organization like the heritage foundation. you pop open their mandate for the national republican president, it is just a 900-page argument for expanded, unfettered executive power. and if you crack open the lid on ron desantis plans, that's

why he's arguing for it as well. i think we really need to have a conversation about what does it mean to be a republican now and how has that changed and and how about and what are people implicitly accepting when they just say if i want a strong president? it is all in for tonight. alex wagner starts goodnight. good evening. alex alex it is tells me that these e legitimate conversations were having with a man who wants to be president. thanks to you at home for joining me this evening. the former president of the united states is a free man. he can go anywhere he chooses and today he chose to attend his civil fraud trial in new york city. >> this is weaponization of justice. this is something nobody can see to this extent, it's called election interference. it's a sad day for our country

that a thing like this could take place. i'm sitting in a courthouse instead of being in iowa where i should be. >> again, no one compelled mr. trump to be in that courthouse today. he could've gone to iowa. he has a private plane, he could've gone to both iowa and new york to be wanted to. but donald trump came to new york because he's likes to use his trials as soapbox as for his presidential campaign. and the biggest one of all, the biggest soapbox of all is the federal trial over alleged 2020 election subversion which, is set to take place in march of next year wright's campaign season is in full swing. that would set up a dynamic a split screen if you will but no one in this country has ever seen before. the times say the trump d.c. trial would also fuse his role as a criminal defendant as a presidential candidate.

it would transform the steps for daily impromptu daily rallies. and the legal case for the race to the white house on a direct pledging chorus, each one increasingly capable of shaping the other. ? it that sort of what we saw today the beta test that dynamic. but there is a very live question right now as to whether that case even goes to trial before the 2024 election. because while donald trump may enjoy the spectacle of a campaign royal of a campaign steps, he is very much still doing very much to do everything in his power to become a convicted criminal. and today trump's lawyers made a significant delay to delay his d.c. trial and a move that may very well end up succeeding. as we have been covering on this show in recent days, trump has been trying to get this case thrown out on the grounds that he is immune from prosecution for anything he did

as president. and trump's mind, the presidency is a shield against nearly everything. but the judge here, judge tanya chutkan rejected that argument last weekend in a forceful ruling. she wrote the fans for your service as commander-in-chief did not pistol him the divine right of kings to evade criminal culpability as in his fellow citizens. but today trump is appealing that ruling, saying he wants a higher court to run in way and in that same question. and importantly, he is asking judge chutkan to freeze all further proceedings in this case until that issue is resolved. now last night we told you about these jury selection forms that i've already gone out to potential jurors in washington, d.c.. but if trump succeeds in pausing this case, there will be no jury selection in the near future. no jury selection, no pre trial motions, no disclosures about trial strategies. all of that machinery, all of

that very necessary and time consuming preparation would come to a grinding halt. which would inevitably have the effect of delaying the trial itself. but trump may also have another goal in mind. trump could try to appeal his presidential immunity defense all the way to the supreme court where he presumably hopes that the conservative majority, a third of who were appointed by donald trump himself would not rule in his favor. what the supreme court would actually do is anyone's guess. if they rule in trump's favor, then the cases over. cap put. but they rule against trump, then judge chutkan would have a choice to make. getting a high court to issue a ruling would likely delay this case for weeks or even months, and then judge chutkan will have to decide whether to hold the proceeding during the heart of campaign season. such a move would no doubt prompt furious outbursts from mr. trump, who would be obligated to be in courtroom

every day and not campaigning. so that tantrum slash pep rally you saw today, the outburst we've all seen four weeks outside mr. trump's fraud trial in new york, those would become a daily occurrence in the middle of an election. or judge chutkan could forgo that completely she, could defer to the political calendar and decide was too fraught to put a calendar on trial. excuse me with the election looming. joining me now, and former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, i'm gonna take a brief pause and drink some water. also with us mark joseph stern, writer in covering the courts. marking a can't go to you right now, so i can continue to cough. i can ask you what your assessment is about how long the d.c. court may take to adjudicate this issue? >> you know it really all depends on what panel of judges

takes this case. and it's randomly assigned. there are four republican judges on the d.c. circuit who have shown some inclination towards running interference for trump to varying degrees. and if two of those judges land on this panel, that panel could really draw out the process. they could take quite a long time to hear the case, issue a decision, in past appeals to the d.c. circuit, these cases have usually just by chad's gone to liberal panels which have worked really well to expedite the process and get an answer out fast because they don't want to delay justice. but if this does land in the hand of conservative judges on that court, we could be waiting for months and months until we get a decision. and all that time judge chutkan's proceedings would almost certainly be stayed. >> it feels like they're very few good options here. what is the best-case scenario as you see this appeals process take flight as it were? >> i think the best-case

scenario as mark alluded to is the court of appeals rules quickly. this may sound a little bit naive, but i am going to say it. this is a motion that any lawyer would file. i have said many times, we have talked many times about trump using appeals as a delay tactic. this is a real issue that it makes sense that they are appealing it. it's not frivolous. i don't think ultimately on the merits he will win and i think it's important that the court of appeals he is appealing to has already ruled on this in the civil context and says he does not have immunity. now sit civil and criminal are very different. i think there's a decent argument, one way of thinking of that is that in the criminal context, a court would be less likely to give immunity than in a civil one. because in a civil case, anybody could file a civil case, they don't want to open the

floodgates. criminal case is as have we can see we have seen in history, as a sitting president or former sitting president are very rare. i think there is a very good chance that the court of appeals can rule quickly and get this moving. what happens at the supreme court is a bigger unknown, but again they have deferred on other cases related to trump and summarily of front to the court of appeals not wanting to weigh in on this. this is more important legal questions we will have to see. >> you know mark, when we talk about the supreme court, it is a big question mark which i think surprises some people saying the positions that other people have seen taken on this. what is your expectation of who might be, who are the allies the trump might have on the high court. is it justice thomas? is it justice kavanaugh? is it more than two of them? who you think would be more sympathetic to his argument

here? >> so look, we have seen time and again that justice thomas almost always votes with donald trump when he takes some case to the supreme court, seeking to support a subpoena or an indictment or any kind of lawsuit, justice thomas is there walking arm and arm with him. and to a lesser degree souls justice alito. both of them have expressed views that they really do think this former president is under this kind of unfair assault the treats him almost illegitimately, and that they feel some kind of independent obligation to stand up to that. just as kavanaugh and gorsuch are more interesting. they have indicated some concern for protecting the president from invasive lawsuits. the criminal question remains very much open, and as me alluded to, it's a very different case. it's not one that the supreme court ever dealt with squarely when trump was president what

really did try to dodge these issues. and one thing i think is important to understand about this appeal, that it goes to judge chutkan's distrust diction to hear this case. goes to the question of either she has the power to carry on here or whether trump is completely immune, so this entire case has to be thrown out. i think the gravity of that question, it's so different than can this evidence be introduced, can this witness testified? this is the whole deal here, and i think the gravity of that will give some of the justices pause and make them want to take on this case and really hear full arguments, full briefing and to make a decision on the merits. that could take until june, at which point it right might really be too late for a trial. even if justice kavanaugh and justice gorsuch ultimately come out against trump and his question, they might think it's serious enough to that they will take it under consideration, and that alone might be enough to run it out the clock. >> the fact that they are taking it out is an inherently pro trump move.

the supreme court me, we all remember bush v. gore it took them a day to issue an opinion on that. is there any chance, march is said june if the supreme court decides to take this up and i assume that's the expediting calendar. >> that's normally when they come down with their decisions. look, this is a different scenario. this is an interlocutory appeal. there is an indictment pending, there's trial calendar set, there are jurors. even a partisan supreme court, even a partisan justice, if they have any shred of institutional respect for the court system has to recognize that this isn't something they can wait six months on, i don't think. it should be an expedited appeal, because it's not like bush v. gore where it's about the election, it's about a pending criminal indictment where jurors have already been called. >> it is about the 2024 election as well in some ways. some people say the american

public should have some conclusions as well. >> there is that argument. i think there's a decent argument that we will have to see the briefing and how she can even proceed with the case. >> i want to talk about that because there are parallel hurdles here. there is the ultimate question about whether he has immunity but mark, there's the question about whether trump can grind everything to a halt. i think it was very interesting the judge chutkan moved forward with the jury selection process. the letters went out i think last week or at the beginning of this week, almost as a signal to say the work is starting, we need to get this underway. the machinery of justice is cranking along. what do you think the likelihood is of a stay is granted here after all the preparations of this march 4th trial grind to a halt? >> i think it's unlikely that judge chutkan would grant such a sweeping stay.

a more limited stays within ihram of possibility, but trump's lawyers are arguing here that there is a mandatory freeze on all proceedings as soon as they even file the appeal. trump's lawyers say, hey we're going to the d.c. circuit now. judge chutkan now by law you must stop everything you are doing. they make that argument based on a 5 to 4 decision last term written by justice kavanaugh it doesn't even say any of that. it was a mirror decision regarding arbitration not a criminal trial. so it's pretty much a hail mary argument that they're making here and judge chutkan is not shown a lot of tolerance for that. i don't think she will be playing along here, but of course have we as discussed for several minutes now, once this gets in the hands of the d.c. circuit, once it gets to the hands of the supreme court, higher courts always stay these proceedings once a considering the question. so it depends on way more on who is handling this in the courts above, and what judge chutkan decides what to do. >> that's the point.

it seems comical that judge shotgun would be deciding on this day given where she is in the immunity appeal. he could appeal, that it could go to the d.c. circuit, and then to the supreme court. the d.c. circuit as been remarkably generous if you will in issuing these stays even on the gag order. it would turn to the status quo, that donald trump wasn't gagged, and continuing to make inflammatory dangerous comments about court officials when he was on gag. this is less immediately perilous to any person, so could they actually say yes, we can stop everything while we decide on the appeal? >> i will be very interested to see the government's response to the motion, because yeah, when you have an appeal there is a certain jurisdictional elements, the jury's happening, now you can't go forward. i agree with mark, could be a

more limited stay. it doesn't mean that the jury selection process is gonna take forever, so that's why she started it. maybe that can continue, because that doesn't involve the parties. there are certain ways, this is just so unprecedented that it's hard to know. but i would also say the deceased circuit has been pretty remarkably fast. that's not unusual for them and they have continued that in this. i think that is hopeful. >> well, i am not one to quote donald rumsfeld, but no known unknowns. thank you both for your expertise and your wisdom in unpacking this. we have lots more ahead tonight. you have heard the alarm bells ringing about donald trump's revenge plans should he win reelection, now we have a look at all the tools at his disposal if he gets back into the white house. but first, tinfoil at january six revisionism is in full swing in the federal courthouse

for the republican presidential primary. we'll have more on that coming up next. we'll have more on that comig up next. up next. >> arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that's why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i've ever seen. it's people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression.

if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech. that's why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms. it is so important now more than ever. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty,

for just $19 a month. use your credit card and you'll get this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you're helping to protect the rights of all people. the aclu is in all 50 states, d.c. and puerto rico defending our first amendment right of free speech and all of your constitutional rights. because we the people, means all of us. so please, call or, go online to myaclu.org today.

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former california police chief turned january 6th rioter was sentenced to 11 years in federal prison for his role in the attack on the capital. and his sentencing, hostetter launched into a rant after federal prosecutors referred to me as opposed to john for january 6th conspiracy theories. in response, mr. hostetter told prosecutors he was living in a parallel universe and he believed the capitol insurrection was a set up by the cia, the fbi and the department of homeland security. his source for that? who was this guy. >> why am i the only person on

the stage at least thick who can say the january six now does look like it was an inside job. that the 2020 election was indeed stolen by big tech. then the 2016 election, the one that trump won for sure, was also the one that was stolen from him by the national security establishment. >> vivek ramaswamy is unbelievably but also not surprisingly not the only republican to embrace the january 6th tinfoil had three. in a recent court filing, lawyers for donald trump says he plans to make january 6th conspiracy theories part of his defense in the federal 2020 election interference case. as proof, trump does the justice department for all documents from all individuals like ray acts, a trump supporter who's been a target of right-wing attacks falsely claiming that acts was an undercover agent and that january 6th was a false flag event. joining us now is mark leibovich, staff writer at the

atlantic. mark, thank you for being here. as we watch the most outlandish theories take a strong foothold in the republican party, i think there is been a lot of discussion this week on how to stop the madness. and in particular if the toothpaste can be put back into the tube with some of the more extreme positions of the gop here. and i wonder when you have someone like the vague ramaswamy saying stuff like that on the national stage, when he's one of the four candidates learning for the republican nomination, you seen realtime what effect that gonna have. candid to peace be put back in the tube? >> vivek ramaswamy at the slatedale just a few days before the iowa caucus is still up on that stage. seems a lot of people including republicans are tuning in a, which i think is probably a good thing, but obviously as we saw funnels legal proceedings in california, you know people listen to the stuff, people believe it. and the fact is, for the last seven years this has been

coming for the most powerful, most visible figure in the republican party, donald trump. he is the conspiracy theorist-in-chief in the republican party, and it's obviously trickle down a great deal, and as long as it continues they'll be a market for someone like that. i would like to think as people move closer to actually thinking about who they are going to vote for, people might take this more seriously. if in fact someone raises these conspiracy theories in a court, it probably won't get a very serious consideration from a judge. so i have a feeling as a legal defense that's not gonna work very much. but the fact is, if you look at polls about what republican voters believe, it's quite often very much out of touch with the reality of things on the ground. >> it's not just out of touch but wait in another universe, not just universe january six was a peaceful gathering, january 6th being an inside job is a position that someone who wants to hold the highest office in the land is publicly staking out on a debate stage.

there has been some talk in some calls from both democrats and republicans alike that more republicans need to raise their hands and call it fellow republicans for being liars. what a place and sound from chris christie last night and this is what he had to say on the topic of donald trump. >> i look at my watch now. we are 17 minutes into this debate and except for your little speech in the beginning, we've had these three acting as if the race is between the four of us. the fifth guy who doesn't have the guts to show up and stand here, he's the one who as you put it is way ahead in the polls. and yet, i've got these three guys who are all seemingly to compete with voldemort, he who shall not be named. >> mark, there's been a supposition that if one prominent republican called out trump, that moore would surely join him.

so far, chris christie is very lonely in this job. how and when does this dynamic change if ever? >> i don't think it's going to change at least certainly through this election cycle. i was thinking, chris christie is probably not gonna win the republican nomination. he's not getting a lot of traction in the polls. at least he's getting on stage. i do think that despite some calls that he drop out and maybe endorse someone like nikki haley who would have a better chance of beating trump, i do think he is playing a valuable role as a reality check in these debates and given what his message is being. is probably not a winning message but it's extremely important in the same way that there have been truth tellers in the republican party. liz cheney's book is number one on the amazon list now and there are a lot of people are making very responsible arguments in journalism and politics, presidential candidates in the case of kristie. but ultimately he was saying

that the people who actually could be on donald trump, namely ron desantis and nikki haley essentially looked like they're playing for second place because they're nowhere near donald trump in the polls they don't seem to be making much of an effort to try to creep into his lead at all. i think that's where we are, nothing is very useful for christie to point that out. >> we talked very quickly about nikki haley, because there's been some talk about especially yesterday after her performance in the debate yesterday, and her the endorsement by the koch brothers as in the brothers, that she may -- do you think that you are going to see more democrats and i'm thinking now of the democratic governor who's giving money to hillary's campaign, but democrats and centrist republicans trying to rally support around her as the best option to stave off a potential trump presidency? >> i don't think democratic money, especially when news of democratic money and even the

koch brothers are gonna re-move the needle of public opinion in any direction. fact is, i think she's run a much better race than desantis, desantis in her hope is that she can kind of knock him out before south carolina and she'll have a clear shot at trump was the first two states are behind them. ultimately though, haley doesn't seem to be playing to win just yet. i will be very curious to see if she has something in her will actually run against donald trump. i think right now she's saying he's a catalyst candidate, elected ministration, i liked what he did policy wise, we need new blood. she's got all the safe code words in code terms and really not going after him the way christie is. i don't know if she has another move in her and ultimately if her goal here is to either play for second place or position herself for 2028.

we'll see, she's run a good race but i don't think it's gonna get or beyond second place. >> from your words to nikki haley's airs. mark leave it of the atlantic, always good to see you my friend, thank you for your time. >> facts. alex >> we have much more to get to this evening but first we have a little programming note for you. tomorrow night on this program we will bring a special report from inside new york city's storied roosevelt hotel. now if you don't know what the roosevelt's, it is the city's main intake center as of this year for thousands of homeless migrants. it has become a symbol of the ongoing nationwide fight over immigration. >> over 100,000 people have come to this city. [speaking in a global language] >> our hearts are big but our

resource is are not analysts. [speaking in a global language] >> the solution is not just new york city, the solution is the united states. >> announced temporary protection for hundreds of thousands of venezuelans. so they'll be able to apply for a work permit. >> let them vote let them vote! >> we know they're prisons there terrorists. it's poisoning the blood of our country. >> we are here because they came here to help build the city! >> it's an extraordinarily complicated and important topic. we're gonna be airing our exclusive report tomorrow night. stay with us. port tomorro night. stay with us stay with us >> ( ♪ ♪ )

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trump's common refrain says that the department of justice is rigged, that it is being weaponized against him by president biden. well tonight president biden's indoor adult son's been indicted by federal prosecutors for nine tax related charges in the state of california. three of those tax charges are felony tax related charges, six or misdemeanors. all of them for the years to 16 through 2019, he'll special counsel says hunter biden willfully failed to base access

on time. hunter biden has since paid all the back taxes and fines for those years, but the core allegation remains that he willfully did not pay them for years when he could have. if convicted, mr. biden faces a maximum penalty of up to 17 years in prison although actual sentences are well below the maximum. these new charges in california come on top of the gun charges that hunter biden is already facing in delaware. and you would think that the president's son being federally indicted multiple times would be evidence of how even-handed the justice department is being here. but prepare yourselves for a conservative onslaught using the hunter biden charges to draw false equivalence between a relatively minor crimes that biden's son is being charged with and the grave abuses of power the former president is accused of. while also claiming that the system is rigged against conservatives and only conservatives. these new charges mean that the

already unprecedented 2024 campaign calendar will get even more complicated. donald trump has his d.c. interference case scheduled for march and his georgia handle election in a ferentz case that's learn for a potential august start date. another may also be two trials of president biden's son happening in the heart of election season. expect multiple coverage of hunter biden's legal troubles on conservative media for not until election day. we have no for no idea of what election coverage is planned for conservative tv for donald trump. coming right up next. coming right up next coming right up next >> soup and salad. thank you! like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. with voya, considering all your financial choices together... can help you make smarter decisions. for a more confident financial future.

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the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. >> donald trump has made no secret of his brand should he end up back in the white house after the 2024 election. criminal investigations into his actions before during and after the 2020 elections and the federal resources to investigate and prosecute his political enemies. but at the atlantic's barton galvan right in how trump gets away with it, the important question is, how much of that agenda he could actually carry out in a second term. the answer is apparently a lot. when it comes to those criminal investigations of either himself or his political enemies, only tradition, not binding law, prevents the

president and his political appointees from issuing orders to the fbi about its investigations. there is little to stop trump from firing special counsel jack smith. he mayborough moved for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause. no law would prevent trump from ordering that the charges against him be dropped. he could do so even with a trial in progress, right up to the moments before a jury returned a verdict. trump will be able to avoid going to prison even if he has already been convicted of federal charges before he is sworn in. a trial judge is unlikely to order trump imprisoned, even after sentencing, before he exhausts his appeals. and there is no plausible scenario in which that happens before inauguration day. and anytime while trump's appeals are pending, his justice department may notify the appellate court that the prosecution no longer wishes to support his conviction, the effect, if the court grants the request, is to vacate a

conviction. so that's what he would like to do and how he would go about it, but then the question is, who, exactly, we'll do donald trump's bidding so that he can get all of that down? barton gellman has a few ideas about that as well. he joins me now. are uncommon, staff writer at the atlantic and senior fellow at the century foundation, author of the most terrifying pieces about the white cliffs i have ever read. this one is no exception. biotin, when you talked about it in the piece, how trump may be able to get some of the most, and this is euphemistic, unsavory characters in trump land into the highest offices, cabinet-level positions, because there is an interesting kind of work around in federal law. can you talk a little bit about how you had managed to get someone like, oh i don't know, stephen miller, named secretary of homeland security? >> you have to start off by thinking, who could be confirmed by the senate? and it depends who controls the

senate. but someone like stephen geller is sufficiently controversial. maybe he would have trouble even in a republican senate. but it's not the end of the question. because then there's the vacancies reform act, which allows trump, who loves acting appointments, to appoint someone secretary of homeland security or attorney general on an acting basis. >> just a temporary fill in, forever. >> a temporary fill in if, it's the beginning of the administration, it's 300 and some days, at the end of the administration, 200 and some days, but they can be re-opt. and in order to appoint someone, in order to be qualified as an acting, that person has to already be sitting in a senate -confirmed position and all the people who were senate confirmed are the people who are serving under biden. >> so unlikely that he's going to use any of those. >> except there's another

little loophole here. there are probably about 100 republicans who are in senate confirmed positions under joe biden, because there are all these boards, like the national labor relations board, that are required by law to be balanced by party. there have to be democrats and republicans. >> so some republicans scattered about the biden administration. but we would assume that they're not gonna be sufficiently conservative for donald trump's purposes. >> trump's people are looking. do they have some maga people undercover already in the u.s. government? if not, they have to find someone who is at least edgiest 15 on the federal pay scale, who is in the -- >> relatively senior, for those not familiar with what gia's 15 can outs. then you can occupy the position for 90 days, is that right? >> you can, you have to have been in that -- >> sorry have to have been in that position for 90 days and then you can be in acting.

so that's the workaround. you hire someone, like stephen miller, to work in a senior position for 90 days, and then he qualifies to be someone he can name, trump can name as acting, i don't, know attorney general, secretary of homeland security. that's the work around. that is, i think, for people who have long thought kash patel will never be the director of the cia, he will never get past the senate, a very compelling and too many i think terrifying realization that there is in fact a workaround for something like that. can you talk a little bit about this piece is so exhausted and well researched, the waste in which trump could've weighed jail time, potentially, if convicted of federal crimes before election day. what exactly he would have to do to avoid that. >> so as you said, correctly, right up until the moment the jury delivers its verdict, the justice department could simply drop the case.

they could say we interrupt these deliberations. we're dropping the charge. if he's already convicted, then the justice department makes what's called the confession of error. it says we have changed our mind. we're not going to oppose his appeal. we believe the charge, the conviction to be vacated. nothing stops the justice department from doing that. that's certainly what would happen if trump were -- >> effectively running the justice department as he basically would be. >> so that's a certainty. the harder question, because like so many things in the trump world, it has never been resolved or litigated is what would happen to state charges. >> yes. >> so suppose he's in the middle of trial on the georgia case. or even has been convicted. the justice department will go to the federal court and argue

that it is unconstitutional for a lesser sovereign, the state of georgia -- >> fani willis. >> fani willis. to attempt to imprison the chief executive of the united states because it would prevent the chief executive from doing his constitutionally require duties. and almost certainly the court would say this has to go on pause until the end of the presidency, so that takes two to 2029. >> indeed, judge mcafee in georgia has asked when would feasibly be a good time to start with donald trump? and they said after he finishes out his second term, in the year 2029. martin gellman, a lot of democrats hope that the trump team does not read this piece, because there are a lot of directions and information about how to skirt the guardrails of democracy. it is compelling and terrifying. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> still ahead this evening, texas law bans nearly all abortions, with very limited

exceptions. one pregnant women went to court and challenge what those bands bid for her, and today she won. more on that stories coming up next. n that stories coming up next next >> jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? her credit's golden. hello new apartment. three jens getting ahead with chase. solutions that grow with you. one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. detect this: living with hiv, i learned that i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients

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district court judge granted an emergency motion allowing a woman to get an abortion. after 20 weeks of pregnancy, 31-year-old kate clocks learned her fetus has a fatal abnormality. her life and fertility were at risk. the texas has a set of abortion bans that are so strict, medical exemptions so narrow, the people like kate cox need to get a judge to approve life saving abortions. so last week cox and her husband sued the state of texas so that she could have the procedure.

in the court hearing today, the texas attorney generals office argued that miss cox does not qualify for a medical exemption under the state's abortion laws, but the judge disagreed, saying the idea that miss cox desperately wants to be apparent, and this law might actually cause her to lose that ability is shocking and would be a genuine miscarriage of justice. experts expect texas to appeal today's decision, and what that means for cox's abortion is unclear. in the meantime, attorney general paxton sent a letter to three texas hospitals, warning that the judges motion will not insulate you or anyone else from civil and criminal liability for violating texas's abortion laws. it does not enjoying actions brought by private citizens. joining me now is aaron carmen, senior correspondent and new york magazine. erin, you are so indispensable in reporting on all of this. i wonder, first, what you make of the words from ken paxton, the a.g. who seems to be

threatening the bounty hunter law to prosecute anyone who might assist miss cox with her abortion. >> there are so many restrictions on abortion in texas, five different ones, each one of them has different language about medical exemptions. it is hard to even understand which way he plans to prosecute. in letter he sent to the hasse battles he threatened threatening felony prosecution so there's all kinds of into reuven laws restricting pregnant people and their survivors. i think we should step back. the reason we have never seen a case like this, you and i were talking about this, it is extraordinary for someone who has an ongoing pregnancy who needs an abortion to actually go through this process, an adult, begging a court to let her have a lifesaving abortion, one that will, again, if she does not happen have it, harm her fertility in her health, the reason that doesn't happen is that once that person is in front of a lawyer, usually that means that they can go out of state and they don't have to put themselves in danger. the center for reproductive

rights as a lawsuit was 22 wellman, some of whom had to give birth to a dying fetus, had to -- became black with clotted blood because she couldn't get the care she needed. others were able to go to other states get abortions. i imagine the same option is available to kate cox, what she's choosing to fight this fight in order to bring about justice, one hopes, and also, look at what's happening. look at the lengths to which paxton is going. the court understands that they should qualify under any reasonable health exception, but even having going through all this process, texas attorney general wants to prosecute the doctors for providing care that's gonna provide the best outcome to their patients that their patient has chosen. >> and it's presumably an appeal this. >> but they want to disobey a judge in order to force this woman to harm her health, to give birth to a fetus or baby

that will live may be painful hours. >> the bravery and the tenacity of kate cox in this moment, to take her case to the courts, to show america, to show texas lawmakers what it means to impose these restrictions on pregnant people, she spoke to nightly news this evening, and i just want to play a little bit of sound from kate cox reacting to this decision. >> look at my situation. maybe think about your wife or your sister or your daughter, and see the hurt. >> the ways in which the stories of these women have completely upended the political narrative that the conservative right-wing is trying to establish, these are sisters, mothers, daughters, women, like everyone else, who are facing unfathomable unforeseeable circumstances and need care. i just wonder what you think this does to the political dynamic and the right desire to

outlaw abortion nationally. >> even the -- has caught off guard how many people have been snagged in this. people who are going through challenging a health circumstances in the pregnancies, they have enough to deal with. they don't need to be going to a lawyer, they don't need to be fighting a hospital board. but the fact people have decided to speak up about this, talk to reporters, go to report court, shows they realize this implicates the justice, their health, their liberty, and it's not rare. that's the other thing. i will say this, as well, the bigger context here is that the antiabortion movement thinks of exceptions and loopholes for funsies. if the exceptions are to capacious, women will just lineup and have an abortion to get out of pregnancy for free cards. they're intentionally making these exceptions as narrow as possible to try to make it so that you have to be a deaths door. they do not accept a lethal fetal diagnosis is a reason for an exception. they're willing to persecute this woman all the way to the

hospital door to try to enforce this. >> the battle isn't over. i remember during the peak of the anti obamacare backlash, it was get the government at my health care, and now you have literally the texas attorney general telling a woman and her doctor that she can't have an abortion because he's decided the fetus in her uterus should be brought to term. it is unbelievable. the level of violation that is being visited upon these women. irin calmon, it is great to see you. thank you for speaking so brilliantly and passionately about this topic. that is our show. now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. for >> we have news of hunter biden being arrested on tax evasion in a case where he ended up paying all the taxes already, which is a rather unusual beginning of a prosecution will tax evasion. joyce vance melissa murray will give us their views on that as we get into it here. >> i will