we don't know. we have no knowledge, direction, location, she tells us. this man saying, we had to go through seven countries on foot through the jungle. we came for the opportunity for the work permit. >> seven countries on foot. julia ainsley, thank you. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. see you tomorrow night. you can reach me on social media @jdbalart. andrea mitchell will talk to chris christie. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," hunter biden facing a major felony tax fraud case, with stunning details in a 56-page indictment that rocks the first family with potential political problems for the biden campaign. i will get reaction from 2024 presidential candidate and former u.s. attorney chris

christie, along with his prospects in the republican primary contest after that fiery debate performance. a growing divide between the biden administration and israel's prime minister over this death toll and the humanitarian crisis in gaza. world leaders break their silence on how hamas used rape as a weapon of war on october 7th. ♪♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. the president's son hunter now facing a second federal indictment and not the misdemeanor tax charge he thought he was being handed with the plea deal that collapsed in june. this time, nine charges on an alleged criminal scheme to avoid paying taxes on millions of dollars in income. the president himself is not named in the indictment. it could help weaponize house republicans with their upcoming vote to open an impeachment inquiry into mr. biden, with

enormous political implications for the re-electi campaign. the president ignoring reporters' questions about his son just moments ago ase left washington for a campaign swing out west. the indictment filed thursday in california reads, rather than pay his taxes, hunter biden spent millions on anxtragant lifestyle, including drugs, escorts and girlfriends. luxury hotels and rental properties, exotic cars, clothing and other items of personal nature. in short, everything but his taxes. that's a quote from the indictment. special prosecutor david weiss quoted details from hunter's memoir. the filing alleged hunter misreported expenses on his returns, claiming a payment lifted as a golf club deposit was a sex club membership. we start with ken dilanian and peter baker and joyce vance. ken, this indictment alleging hunter had the money, he had the

income to pay taxes. instead, he chose not to pay his taxes, even after he had gotten clean from drugs, in response to the anticipated defense that he was addicted and he was doing this not of clear mind. how serious are the new charges? remind us, how did we get here? >> reporter: extremely serious. all told, the new charges carry a maximum penalty of 17 years in prison. that sentence is, of course, unlikely. this situation is especially remarkable, because as you said, hunter had a chance to resolve the tax charges by pleading guilty over the summer to failing to file a return under a deal that called f no jail time. that deal fell apart because prosecutors declined to declare him immune from future charges, leading his legal team to walk away. that's looking like a catastrophic decision. the attorney general quickly appointed david weiss the special counsel. in september, weiss indicted hunter on a felony gun charge in delaware.

now weiss has thrown the book at hunter biden on tax charges in los angeles. he charged him with felony tax evasion and fraud, saying he had the money to pay his taxes, but instead spend it on a lavish lifestyle that included drugs, escorts, clothing and luxury cars. when he filed a tax return, hunter biden in 2018, the charges say he lied to lower his tax burden, including an allegedly fraudulent $10,000 deduction for a golf membership that was actually for a sex club. mr. biden repaid most of what he owed. his lawyers say these new charges are unfair. former tax prosecutors i have spoken to say this case appears to be very strong. jurors won't be asked whether the prosecution was fair. they will be asked whether prosecutors have proven hunter biden committed these crimes. >> ryan, what about the reaction on capitol hill anticipated? this adds fuel to next week's inquiry into the president of

the united states for impeachment. hunter biden's house deposition that they are trying to demand. that's still in dispute. the indictment highlighting the relationship between hunter and his entertainment lawyer who also happens to be a biden presidential donor. apparently, he did not know mr. morris very well. he is a major democratic donor. he came through with the tax payment belatedly. >> reporter: to be clear, there is nothing in this indictment that implicates the president of the united states in any way, shape, or form. that does not -- it's not going to stop house republicans from trying to tie their impeachment inquiry into the president himself, into this indictment of hunter biden. one example of that will be the work the house ways and means committee has been undertaking through the lens of the two irs whistle-blowers who contended that there was political interference in the early stages of the investigation into hunter

biden. to be fair, that investigation was launched while bill barr was the attorney general and during the trump administration. regardless, republicans have been insisting that these investigators did not look fully into the situation with hunter biden because of the political pressure. one of the things the whistle-blowers detailed during a deposition that was held this week on capitol hill was that kevin morris, that lawyer who did end up being a biden campaign donor, gave almost $5 million to hunter biden to help him satisfy his tax debts. this is, as you rightly point out, just going to allow cover for many moderate republicans who are in biden swing districts to cast a ballot in favor of formalizing the impeachment inquiry, which is well underway, but would not give them legal heft to force people like hunter biden to appear in front of the committee under subpoena. hunter biden right now is in a back and forth between the committee about the parameters

of the subpoena. he asked to appear publicly. they want him to sit for a closed door deposition. that's supposed to happen as soon as wednesday. if it doesn't, these members of congress could move to a contempt of congress charge against hunter biden, which could add to the list of legal troubles he is facing. this is no doubt a serious legal problem for hunter biden. it has become a bigger political problem for his father. >> peter baker, the white house is not commenting. we saw the president leaving today without commenting. he has not commented about this case. that is going to be the practice. the optics here are so troubling for the first family. the details are so is a is a troubling.

>> it's one thing to say i had a troubled past and came through it and it's another for prosecutors to put it in an indictment. they are accusing him of crimes that could send him to prison. he had a chance to get out of it. it will make a lot of people look back at the decision to blow up the plea deal in the spring over immunity he wasn't going to get, didn't get, and doesn't have now. he could have made this go away for him and his father. his father will face the political optics of his own son being on trial possibly on two different trials next year at the same time that his former -- his opponent donald trump will be on trial. very different charges. very different implications. hunter was never president, never served in office. no implication of abusing power or the president had anything to do with it. a part of your argument against the other guy is, he is a criminal, he is a crook, he is

about to be convicted, you don't want your family on trial at the same time. >> joyce vance, the legal implications. there they were five months ago in june in front of a judge in delaware and in the bat of an eyelash, the whole thing fell apart when she wouldn't accept the plea and what was then a misdemeanor is now three felony counts. >> there are three felony counts here. that raises the question of why doj offered a plea deal to a misdemeanor in the first place. we will watch this play out. hunter biden's lawyer will file motions to dismiss. probably arguing selective or vindictive prosecution. that's going to be a tough claim to make out here with the attorney general regardless to how this case was initiated. it is, as people have noted, a speaking indictment. it's very detailed.

if doj can prove what they have alleged, it's a serious case against hunter biden, despite having all the resources of the federal grand jury at their disposal, they have not in in -- they have not come up with charges against president biden or mentioned his name in the course of the indictment. this is directed to hunter alone. >> this may not be a legal issue, peter, but are people going to raise questions about why someone that hunter biden did not know but who was a major democratic party donor, all of a sudden came up with millions of dollars to help him out of this bind and pay those back taxes? >> exactly. it does ahat money was sloshing around and somehow it's all because -- the attorney says he would have been charged if his name wasn't biden -- sorry, the attorney said he wouldn't have been charged if his name wasn't biden but people say heoun't have gotten the business opportunities and in this case

financial rescue if his name wasn't biden. it will fuel momentum among republicans on the hill. it's important to remember that the president is not personally involved in this. donald trump's family has had plenty of things he has been accused of in terms of money and the nexus with his time in the white house. his son-in-law has the deal with the saudis, gave them $2 billion to invest shortly after leaving the white house staff. hunter biden never served on the white house staff. that doesn't matter in terms of the politics. trump will try to say, see, his -- the biden crime family, as they like to put it is crooked and i'm being persecuted because of politics. it may not convince anybody in the middle. it may play to his base. >> joyce, one other question about the potential witness list here. this speaking indictment lists all kinds of really gritty

details. you can imagine the witnesses who could be parading through a federal courtroom. would this likely happen before the election? >> first off, there will be discovery, there will be plea negotiations. it's still possible that some sort of a plea deal could be reached in this case. centlistrict of california is a prettyusy district. speedy trial act applies, but sometimes their cases can get delayed a little bitfurther. so there's certainly no guarantee of a trial before the election takes place. boy, it looks to me like this case would be set to go sometime early next year or certainly by summer. >> joyce, thanks so much. ken, of course, ryan, tracking all of this. peter baker, thanks for starting us off. we will have you back, joyce, on a different topic. first, on edge.

new details, including federal charges after shots are fired outside a jewish temple in upstate new york. that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in 60 seconds. stay with us. you are watching msnbc. watchingc choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. when it comes to your hair, ingredients matter. that's why herbal essences is packed with naturally derived plant ingredients you love, and none of the stuff you don't. our sulfate-free collections smell incredible... ♪ and leave your hair touchably soft and smooth. ♪ herbal essences have fun, sis! ♪♪ can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card,

choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. rising fears following a surge of anti-semitic incidents ross the country being fuelled by a new incident in upstate new york. a 28-year-old man is facing federal gun charges after he opened fire outside a synagogue thursday. preschoolers were attending class inside. luckily, no one was injured.

>> police say the suspect reportedly said, free palestine, as he was taken into custody. authorities are investigating it as a potential hate crime. joining us now is tom winter. tom, have police established what the suspect's motive was? >> they haven't said so. the complaint, when you look at it, filed in federal court, really only addresses the gun. they are ticking off the basic trip wires to charge on this gun possession by an unlawful user. after his miranda warnings were read to him, according to the complaint, the individual here apparently said that he was a regular user of marijuana. you can't be a regular user of marijuana and be somebody possessing and using a weapon. that's what they have charged him with. since the shotgun was purchased and transported across state lines, then that's something that brings in the federal nexus. the big question is what you

have focused on, which is this idea of, what is the motive? as you said, according to police, stating on the record that he apparently said, free palestine, around the time he fired the two rounds. there was a preschool there. over two dozen kids were inside when this happened. there is an enormous concern about what was this person trying to do? what were they really up to that day? was something stopped before things got really ugly and people were hurt? it's important to note, nobody was struck by the rounds. ultimately, i think for investigators, that's the focus, what was this individual trying to do? that could inform future charges. >> tom, i want to clarify. it was very hard to hear what the rabbi was saying there. she was saying she wanted to thank the police, the staff, for everyone getting out, including the children staying safe, the police for their quick response. i read the police were there within one minute, which is testimony to how alert they are

and how present they are around places of worship. >> 100%. you hit the nail on the head. unfortunately, for this particular temple, they are not unused to threats. they received numerous bomb threats in the past. they have received -- this has been going around for the past several months, ever since hamas attacked israel on october 7th. there's been a number of threats that have been phoned in to the various jewish community faith centers and institutions. police acutely aware of the fact that they are there, that they have had threats before. yes, the response time was approximately a minute, which is incredibly fast. the new york state police followed. the fbi was engaged nearly from the outset. there were a lot of people concerned about this incident. i think long-term, the focus is on whether there will be hate crime charges that could be brought. the fbi could bring that. there are additional hate and terrorism statutes in the state of new york that could be brought. we will be following this one

closely for sure. we will have to see what ends up happening here. i doubt this is the last we will hear about this case. >> a tribute to the quick response, but still terrifying for the children and their parents. >> absolutely. >> and the community. tom winter, thank you. the humanitarian catastrophe. president joe biden pressing israel's prime minister to keep palestinian civilians better protected from the harm of the events. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. repc he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ have fun, sis! ♪♪ can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. [city ambience sounds] [car screech] [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing

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the u.n. is warning of a humanitarian catastrophe in gaza. secretary of state tony blinken on thursday sharpening his criticism of the impact of israel's offensive. >> it is imperative, it remains imperative, israel put a premium on civilian protection. we cannot have an israeli reoccupation of gaza. we cannot have forced displacement of palestinians from gaza. we cannot have the territory of gaza diminished in any way. >> in gaza thursday, massive crowds thronged to a food distribution center. richard engel reports on what it's like for one girl who lost her family. >> reporter: gazans are helping each other. in rafah, teachers paint this

girl's face with a dove for peace. she lost her left leg, relatives say, in an israeli strike that killed her parents and siblings. her aunt is taking care of her. the aunt tells us, she screams nonstop when talking about her family. >> as israel prepared to begin celebrating hanukkah, richard visited a kibbutz that was attacks on october 7th, where survivors set tables for the dead and those still being held hostage. richard engel joins us now from jerusalem. it's heartbreaking on both sides, richard, as you have been telling us, bringing it to us night after night now for two months. what's the latest on the ground in gaza and in israel as the country marks the start of hanukkah last night? >> reporter: in gaza, the

situation is increasingly dire. we are running out of words to describe how bad it is. when we speak to our colleagues, they are running out of food, not enough water, children in some areas are walking barefoot, cold at night. the situation according to the u.n. secretary-general is untenable. the u.n. says that its humanitarian aid programs are on the brink of collapse. in some cases, aid trucks are being looted. people are throwing stones at them. there was a woman who appeared on al jazeera said hamas was taking the food. there's a degree of chaos that's starting to spread in gaza because hamas, which was the government, is now fighting and has gone underground. when you put that much pressure on society, they are under

attack, they are moved from place to place, they don't have basic supplies, the little aid that is getting in is now either being stolen by hamas, stolen by people, sold at an extraordinary premium. the u.n. staff itself in gaza is under attack as well, according to the secretary-general of the u.n. he said 130 u.n. colleagues have lost their lives. he described it as the single greatest loss of life in the history of the organization. a catastrophic situation many gaza. it does not seem to be letting up. here in israel, there is a deep sense of mourning, a deep sense that this country's security has changed. they are missing the hostages who remain missing, 137 of them according to the latest count. they want to make sure that this never happens again, that

there's not another october 7th. there is still broad support in this country for the war. not for prime minister netanyahu, but for a war to disarm hamas and to make sure that gaza is no longer a base for militants to plot and plan attacks. in gaza, a sense of hopelessness. here in israel, a sense that what is happening is inevitable, that they had no other choice. >> richard, the u.n. secretary-general spoke today about the deaths of his colleagues in gaza. they took a terrible loss. this was what he had to say. >> more than 130 of my colleagues have already been killed. many with their families. this is the largest single loss of life in the history of our organization. some of our staff take their children to work. so they know they will live or die together.

>> a democratic senator, a key senator, chris van hollen calling on president biden insist to netanyahu to lessen the deaths. this is a crack in the usually unified democratic support for israel because of the civilian casualties. there's a real concern in the administration, as you know, that they are not being listened to during these calls with the prime minister. >> reporter: we hear about u.s. pressure. we are hearing statements from the biden administration. if you look at what's happening in gaza, those calls do not seem to be listened to. the offensive is continuing, is continuing with the same

ferocity it has from the past. they are continuing to hear public statements of support from the administration. while there may be pressure behind the scenes in some statements, not that much has changed since the beginning of the offensive. israel says it's going out of its way to warn civilians, to warn people before it attacks. it says it's doing this, losing the element of surprise. no military would want to inform an area before it attacks where and when it plans to attack. the result is still that large parts of gaza are being destroyed, rendered uninhabitable. you have to imagine what the situation is going to be like a month, a week, two months, a year from now when the people who have been displaced, 80% -- more than 80%, try to return to their homes and don't just find

their homes have been damage order destroyed, but that the entire village or entire city has been destroyed, with no working infrastructure at all. where are these people supposed to go at the end of the day? what is the exit strategy? that still hasn't been made clear. it's not -- israel wants to remove hamas from power so it could never carry out another october 7th. what's the plan to replace it? who will take over? there's talk from the palestinian authority that it could extend its sovereignty into gaza. perhaps that's happening in the background. i have been speaking to arabs, and they say there's no serious talks at resuming a cease-fire, let alone coming up with a long-term solution for what comes next. >> richard, there's just -- a little thread to follow up on. just from the white house, from our colleague monica alba

reporting that the administration expects that second opening, the second crossing into israel for aid, which they have promised the white house, kerem shalom, will be opened in the coming days. let's see whether they deliver on that. we will leave it there for now. thank you, richard engel. gaining ground. chris christie joins us live from new hampshire at a critical point in his presidential campaign before the primary. the first primary votes weeks away. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. ." this is msnbc. n into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon. [sneeze] dude you coming? because the only thing dripping should be your style. plop plop fizz fizz with alka-seltzer plus cold & flu relief. also try for fizzy fast cough relief. ♪ students... students of any age, from anywhere.

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for more on the fallout from the hunter biden felony tax evasion charges, let's bring in a former u.s. attorney. he is also a former new jersey governor and republican presidential candidate, chris christie, joins us live from new hampshire. thank you for being with us today, from new hampshire. >> my pleasure. thanks for having me. >> as you may remember, you and i were together doing the program that day five or so months ago, in june, when the plea deal fell apart on what would have been a misdemeanor tax charge. now hunter biden's lawyers are facing a second indictment with three felonies, nine counts, and a far more serious potential penalty. is this one of the worst plea agreement defense -- how the

defense handled that in recent history? >> look, we talked about it that day. i had been saying for weeks before that that the judge would never approve such a sweetheart plea deal. i think what his lawyers did was give him awful advice. i think what the prosecutors did was awful as well in terms of agreeing to a deal like that, that was so manifestly unjust. now he is facing what he should have been facing from the beginning, which were felony tax charges. when you involve millions of dollars in tax evasion, that is a felony. the same thing with the felony gun charges. he faces these charges because the government has evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed these crimes. he is now going to have to decide how the best way is to resolve these matters. i'm sure that he could negotiate a plea at this point. it's not going to be the kind of sweetheart deal he got before. my guess is that with the

combination of the gun charges and the tax charges, that hunter biden is going to have to do time in jail. >> which is really remarkable. do you think this could start during the campaign season? would it be after the election, given all the pretrial discovery and everything else that has to happen? >> my guess is the gun charges could potentially happen prior to the election. on the tax charges that have just been brought, my guess is that there won't be enough time for that to start before the election. i think he might have to make some decisions on the gun charges that are filed in the state of delaware. he will probably not have to make decisions, unless he wants to, regarding the tax charges, because my guess is that that won't go to trial until either near the end of 2024 or more likely in the beginning of 2025. >> is there any exposure -- there's nothing mentioned about president biden in this.

no connection. is there a problem -- potential problem in that a prominent democratic donor, who hunter biden did not know, came to his rescue and paid the back taxes for him in terms of millions of dollars? >> you know, look, it depends on what the president knew and whether he played any role in inducing that donor to help hunter biden. we won't know the answer to those questions for some time, until discovery is done in this case. but it's something i'm sure the president knows the answer to. if he was involved, then he will have a problem. we also don't know, with the income hunter was making, was there any indication that the president shared in any of that income at all? if so, then he might have some tax issues to deal with as well. those are things still yet to be discovered. i'm sure, as i read this morning, the prosecutors in

california said the investigation is ongoing. we will see. i'm sure there will be congressional oversight, which will touch on this as well. the president's conduct will be what judges his own culpability, up or down, not what his son does. we are not held to account for what our children do. the same way children are not held to account for what their parents do from a legal perspective. the president will have to answer whether he had any involvement. >> was it unfair for the house to be -- according to the speaker -- going ahead with a vote to open an impeachment inquiry? the test for that is high crimes and misdemeanors. >> look, i don't know -- i think it would be unfair to vote articles of impeachment, because there's no evidence there. i think the house has an appropriate oversight function. whether that's done with the house oversight committee or whether it's done through an impeachment inquiry, i think what matters the most is that people get all the information they need about the president's

conduct for congress to have appropriate oversight and for the public to make a judgment since joe biden has declared himself a candidate for re-election for 2024. that information should be public. it should be transparent. the white house should fully cooperate with both the investigations being done by the justice department and any oversight that happens from the house, because if the president has nothing to hide, he shouldn't be hiding anything. >> there's a new "wall street journal" poll, turning to the campaign, which has donald trump more than 40 points ahead of nikki haley and ron desantis, who are essentially tied. you are in fifth place. is new hampshire place or win or bust? >> i don't know if it's win there or bust. the national polls are ridiculous. you have been covering politics long enough to know that national polls mean nothing, because we don't have a national primary. donald trump has nowhere near that kind of lead in iowa or new

hampshire. i'm in double digits in new hampshire where i have been spending the overwhelming majority of my time. i'm in third or tied for second, depending upon the poll that you look at. no one has voted yet. i wish -- i know it's it will be an unfulfilled dream of my lifetime that they will stop doing the national polls and that you would stop spending so much time talking about them. remember, at this stage of the race eight years ago, ben carson was ten points ahead in the iowa caucuses and ted cruz was at 7%. ted cruz got nearly 27% six weeks later and winning the iowa caucuses. ben carson came in fifth. polls today, even in the early states, while there are more instructive, they are nowhere near determinative. i will continue to do what i'm doing.

i'm in the midst of a college campus tour here. i have been to four colleges in the last day and a half. i'm about to do more later this afternoon. i'm going out and reaching out to new voters potentially for the republican party. these folks have come here and they are listening. they're going to participate. they are going to be the ones to determine. one last thing, as much as 45% of the vote in the republican primary in new hampshire could be from independent voters. >> i was going to say that. >> it's going to be a big deal. all those interests and anybody else who wants to support us, go to chris christie and support us. i will campaign until january 23rd. i intend to do very well here. >> i hope i'm up there with you. thank you so, chris christie. appreciate it. >> thanks. >> see you in the snows of new hampshire. demands for justice next.

survivors sounding the alarm over a lack of outrage over the brutal sexual violence on october 7th against israeli women. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. orts." this is msnbc. customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. (carolers) ♪ iphone 15 pro, your husband deserves it! ♪ choose the online (mom) shopping category carolers? to tell me you want a new iphone? a better plan is verizon. (vo) for a limited time, turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon. the subway series? it's the perfect menu lineup. just give us a number, we got the rest. number three? the monster. six? the boss. fifteen? titan turkey. number one? the philly. oh, yeah, you probably don't want that one. look, i'm not in charge of naming the subs. ♪♪ i was looking at my ancestry traits the other day. i figured it out why i never actually made the football team. yeah, because you're 5'8”. wait robbie, go look at the sprinter gene. i wonder if you have it or that's why you didn't make the team. let me see. let me pull it up.

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it has been more than two months since the horrific terrorist attacks in israel. we are learning a lot more, unfortunately, about how hamas committed widespread acts of sexual violence. women's rights leaders delivered a statement to the u.n. secretary-general demanding a full investigation. joining me now are two women pushing for accountability. joyce vance and mimi doka. mimi, the stories are horrific. what happened to these victims -- i have seen the video of the dead women. it's clear what happened to them. horribly raped, tortured,

mutilation. many of the victims, those who survived, can't speak for themselves. some are still hostages. the u.n., until now, until recently, until the pressure, was silent, as were most countries. >> exactly. everything you just said sums it up. it's clear what happened to them. i think that's so important to say. we have the evidence in front of our eyes. we have seen the pictures of the girl being taken hostage with bloody sweat pants because she was raped. we heard firsthand eyewitness testimony now about seeing a woman be gang raped. we have seen pictures of women with their legs broken because they were raped so many times, their pelvis broken. it's hard to listen to and watch. but we have to. as women and feminists and as a prosecutor, when we see this happening anywhere, we have to speak out about it. otherwise, it hurts women

everywhere. that's why this statement that you mentioned is so important. because the people signing on to this statement are people who have spoken out in every other kind of circumstance where women's bodies are being violated and violence is used against them. women like gloria steinem, the founder of the feminist movement in so many ways. now new york, the national organization for women, tish james, sanctuary for families, so many more, people, women, organizations, and men, leaders who have spoken out in every other circumstance, and there's no reason not to be doing it now. in fact, it is imperative that we all do. >> joyce, it's a war crime, rape. as a prosecutor, the evidence seems to be overwhelming. how much more evidence do they need to hold the perpetrators accountable?

find them first. >> it's such an important question, andrea. certainly, there will be some effort to prosecute individuals. those efforts will depend upon evidence collection. much of what one suspects those investigators will look for is body camera footage, other video actually taken by hamas as they were committing these atrocities, along with testimony from eyewitnesses and physical evidence. there is more than enough for us in the court of public opinion, far less evidence than this has been used by international groups and civil rights groups to condemn other atrocities against women. whether committed in war or otherwise. i don't think anyone can pretend that this isn't a difficult and complicated situation. there's a lot of grievance here. that makes it all the more important for women as leaders to stand up and say something we can condemn with one voice is

the use of rape as a weapon of war against women. it doesn't matter who the perpetrators are. it doesn't matter who the victims are. we condemn this forcefully in every instance. that's the step that's taken with this statement today. >> mimi, there were specific reports of hamas fighters learning how to say phrases in hebrew like, take off your hands. suggesting premeditation. this was part of the game plan. >> yeah, exactly. i have seen a copy of that list and the translation. there were at least two things on the list of the commands that they learned that certainly do suggest a plan. while i think it's correct to c a weapon of war that hamas used, it also was an act of terrorism, and we have to remember that. this wasn't something that happened randomly, spur of the moment in the battlefield. i'm certainly not saying that's

okay, but this is even far more horrific than that because the act -- the plan, it seems, was to torture women really. it wasn't just rape if you can even say that sentence. they mutilated their bodies, and i just want to bring it back if we can for one minute to the fact that there are still young women hostages right now, and we know from hostages who have been released, they have now said there was -- there is sexual violence occurring with these hostages, and so the whole world needs to demand the release of these young women who may be suffering this right now. >> indeed, joyce vance, mimi roe baa, thanks to both of you. and lowering the temperature, next two leading climate experts bringing us their takeaways from the latest global climate conference. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. on msnbc.

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2023 is on track to become the warmest year on record as delegate from nearly 200 countries are in dubai for cop 28, still not resolved, how the countries will handle the issue of fossil fuels, the main effect greenhouse gas emissions from burning fossil fuels are the biggest cause of climate change. joining us now two renowned expert, michael mann presidential distinguished professor at the university of pennsylvania, the author of the new book "our fragile moment: how lessons from earth's past can help us survive the climate crisis." also with us is raj shah, the president of the rockefeller foundation and a former usaid administrator and author of his new book, how large scale change really happens. raj, first to you, talk about the conference, you were there in dubai. how much can be achieved in something like this? does this become a glorified

davos with less, you know, scientific-based economic, you know, outcomes? >> well, andrea, thank you for having me. and i will say i did just come back from dubai, and i think two things are true. the first is the official negotiations, which are what the cop originally represented and still represents are moving forward with incredible -- with a very incremental approach, and i think it's easy to look at that to read michael's book and to say those two things are a problem. we need bold, concerted global action, and what we're getting from global political leaders and in this case, a country that's hosting the cop that has a long history of supporting the oil and gas industry of course is not enough official action. on the other hand, there were 70,000 plus delegates and members at dubai for this particular cop. many are launching public, private coalitions to transform agriculture and food systems so

there's more regenerative agriculture and take significant carbon emissions out of the sky. in the case of the rockefeller foundation, we launched a major effort as part of the global energy alliance to help 81 countries that have 3.5 billion people that live in -- effectively in energy poverty and energy constrained environments can gain access to renewables, which will reduce carbon emissions against the baseline in a significant way. so the dynamism we see and the public/private partnership landscape is what gives me hope, and the struggle and incrementalism we see in the official negotiations, i think we have to breakthrough that with some bolder politics. >> absolutely. michael mann, as your book says, we're in a fragile moment, and just listen to john kerry of the u.s. envoy, of course, speaking at the summit about what he called a central goal. let's watch. >> we need to emphatically accelerate the pace of emission

reductions. that is the only way to keep 1.5 degrees alive, and our choices need to be based on basic mathematics and physics and the evidence we understand and the best judgment of the best scientists in the world. >> so michael, can we do this in time without china doing more, india, some of the other big emitters? >> yeah, thanks, it's a great question. the numbers just came in about three days ago for the 2023 carbon emissions. we now have a pretty good handle on what they will be, and it's sort of bad news. they ticked up 1.4%. it's a pretty healthy increase. >> we're going in the wrong direction. >> going in the wrong direction. but when you dig into the numbers, all of the world except for two countries was basically flat in their emissions, and that increase was driven by china and india, and that's where what raj is talking about becomes so important. if we are going to convince the

india's of the world that they need to phase out their fossil fuel emissions, then we have to take leadership here in the united states because we are the world's largest legacy emitter. we put more carbon pollution into the atmosphere than any other country. >> but raj, china now is building more coal plants, coal-burning plants. the i was in one, you know, decades ago to show this very fact of open furnace coal burning in the heart of beijing. >> chinese institutions have helped co-finance and subsidize the financing of more than 100 gigawatts of new coal to come online in countries like vietnam, indonesia, india, across the globe in emerging and developing economies, and michael's point about u.s. leadership is critical. i wrote the book big bets because i learned as usaid administrator, when america leaves, the fight against aids, the fight against ebola, others

will follow. when america follows, no one's out there leading, and so we need to do more as a nation. we need to invest more in those 80, 81 countries that will account for future emissions, and these cops have to be held accountable so we're asking ourselves are they producing the hundreds of billions, trillions of dollars of financing required to achieve that success. there's been a time for bold leadership in the past, and i always remain optimistic there will be a time for bold leadership in the future. >> i love your opt mitch, both of yours and john kerry's. thank you so much. come back, let's talk about pep far, i'm obsessed with the failure to reauthorize. thank you very much. >> michael mann, it's great to meet you. >> you too. >> thank you, raj shah. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." "chris jansing reports" starts right now. ♪♪