court. the court having read the psi and being fully -- before i get to that, i will also note counsel brought up an issue of making bombs for hitler. that does not change the court's opinion about the obsession with violence. i think bringing -- thank bringing that to the court's attention, but that doesn't change -- his obsession was outlined in his extensive drawings of violence. his obsession continued as i noted in the court's opinion and order, even while he was in the oakland county jail. with that, the court, having read the psi and being fully familiar with the defendant and underlying facts of this case, believes it's in the best interest of justice as well as proportionate to sentence defendant as follows.

as it relates to 2022-fc, count 1, terrorism causen a death, the sentence is the defendant shall serve life without the possibility of parole, credit for eight days served. counts 2 through 5, homicide, first degree, premedicated murder, the court's sense is the defendant shall serve the rest of his life without the possibility of parole, credit for eight days served. on counts 6 through 12, assault with intent to murder, on each of the occupants, defendant is septembered to 18 years and 9 months to 80 years, with the michigan department of corrections, credit for eight days served. on counts 13 through 24, those being felony phi arm, the defendant is septembered to two years on each of those counts, with credit for 30 days served.

counts 1 through 12 are concurrent to each other. counts 13 through 24 are concurrent to each other. count 1 is consect tiff to 2, 2 to 14, 3 to 15, count 4 is consecutive to count 16. 5 is consecutive to 17. 6 is consecutive to 18, 7 is consecutive to 19, 8 is consecutive to 20, 10 is consecutive to count 22. 11 is consecutive to 23, and kuntz 12 is consecutive to 24, all of those consecutive counts are by reasons of the felony statute. there is a challenge to recent tugs? >> there is not. >> recent tugs is in $20,781.

state cotses $1,632. you are not to have any contact with oxford high school or -- enter oxford high school. you're not to have any contact whatsoever with the families of madison ballot win, tate meyer, julianna, and justin schilling. also, you are not to have any contact with the following victims or their families -- so we have been watching the sentences of ethan crumbley. two years ago he had a gun in his backpack. he shot appeared killed four of his classmates, and injured others. he had a statement a moment ago before the judge started speaking. he expressed his -- that he's sorry for what he did. he said he realizes there's

nothing he can do to make it better, but he will try to be better and try to help others. this was after multiple victim statements from family members, from students killed from other classmates, from those injured or who watched as their friends were killed, begging the court to keep him behind bars for the rest of his life. that's exactly what the judge did. you heard him talk about the crimes in very blunt terms that i had not yesterday heard before, that he had one of his classmates get on his knees, executed him. he saw another classmate he had already shot, went up to her and shot her again, executing her. the judge said that mental health should not mean he gets any less time. he says his mental health didn't

stop him from meticulously planning how he would kill had is classmates and that hi clearly wanted to see what happened afterwards, that he wanted to be notorious and experience that, because he did not take his own life. he will spend the rest of his life behind bars without the possibility of parole. that would do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪♪ hi, everyone. it's just after 4:00. i'm in for nicolle wallace. a big development today in an ongoing legal battle with make stakes for our democracy, and the question of whether everyone in this country is equal under the law. a federal appeals court has issued a gag order limiting what

donald trump can say in the case. the three panel has narrowed the gas order. statements about jack smith are now fair game. commentsbout court staff, other lawyers are barred. quote -- with the knowledge that such interference is highly likely to result. judge chutkan's previous order barred statements, quote, targeting witnesses, the new version prohibits public statements about known or roamly foreseeable witnesses in the proceeding. the -- judge patricia mai will.

litt writing -- we do not allow such an order lightly. there is a strong public interest in what he has to say, but mr. trump is also an indicted criminal defendant. he must stand trial in a courtroom. that's what the rule of law means. that is where we start today with former lead investigator for the january 6th select committee tim hathey, and with me basil. jim, your reaction? >> as you said, alicia, it's an attempted balance. it's unfaced terrain, facing a criminal defendant who is simultaneously a candidate for president.

the appeals court, much like judge chutkan, is trying to protect the rights for free expression, but also protect the integrity of the process. i see the logic here. the former president is allowed to criticize the process, criticize the motivation of the justice department and now after today jack smith. he can't challenge the integrity of the process or a potential influence on witnesses. so, again, we'll see a lot in this case. it's new terrain. it will be a lot of balancing going on. i think the appeals court has done a good job trying to strengthen that balance. >> like any other criminal defendant, mr. trump has a constitutional right to speak,

and has millions of supporters as well as has millions of detractors have a right to hear what he has to say. also, like any other criminal defendant, mr. trump does not have an unlimited right to speak. michael, how do you see this playing out? >> you know, i get it. i understand the space the court finds itself in, but here's the problem. they still don't understand the defendant in front of them. i get what this ruling tries to do is split, you know, the proverb usable unsplit-able thing. the reality is that's the problem. donald trump knows that's the court's problem. now they have opened the season on the prosecutor himself. don't they realize, that is how he's influencing the witnesses? they will now will have a

further jaundiced view of the prosecutor, you don't think that bleeds onto the case? you adopt think that bleeds into how people will understand what jack smith is doing in prosecuting donald trump? so, when donald trump gets up and calls jack smith a son of a bitch, and, you know, he's a danger and a threat to the process, you don't think that's going to influence that one also juror sitting out there that goes -- yeah, this prosecution was a threat to the process, not so much to donald trump. remember, he's already said, if they come after me, they're coming after you. so, now all these folks have a chance to put themselves in those shoes. i get the problem the court had, but the reality of it is you're dealing with a defendant who's using the system against itself, in cloaking himself in the red, white and blue of the presidency

to say you can't touch me. oh, by the way, the prosecutors is a sonde of a -- >> well, tim, there's a question of what it means for jury selection, how it potentially complicates jury selection. there's also a question of what it means for jack smith, for his staff. we have seen in the past when donald trump chooses to make his target what ensues. >> yeah. one thing it helps with, as a legal issue, the president will argue repeatedly that a lot of these rules that apply to criminal defendants don't apply to him. he's made that argument that he's immune from prosecution, because these acts occurred while he was president of the united states. the appeals court today, as a threshold matter, ruled he must be treated like any other criminal defendant. so there's a threshold here for jack smith.

now, admitting that there are some unique circumstances, he's a candidate, a first amendment right to criticize matters of policy, but he's been held to the standard of a criminal defendant. that will be repeatedly cite 9 in other contexts. you're right, when he singles people out, anyone, it creates significant danger. jack smith appeared the others who are directly engaged in this case have to be protected. i believe that they are. any person who will enjoy the protection. but criticizing jack smith criticizes the process, and it will have a ripple effect. >> i want to bring into the conversation former deputy assistant attorney general and form ever u.s. attorney harry litman. trump just posted that he will

appeal. not surprising, of course, but talk us through how that plays out. >> well, the appeal, the d.c. circuit here, the appeal is in the form of an appeal to the supreme court. i don't see it going anywhere. first, i want to say tim's point is really important. thematically he was trying to say, a, i'm special, and b, this is a first amendment special issue. they said, a, you're not. jack smith appeared prosecutors are used to being under fire. that kind of goes with the territory. if it does begin to impugn the process, chutkan is free to modify the order. we thought they might have modified the legal standard, but they diplomat. in temperatures of the court

now, unless they stay is it while he considers is, when he'll have for, really the game is basically over. with so many things on the horizon, i don't think this is the issue they will glom on to. if they did, yes, everything would be frozen and he could continue to run hi mouth. he's effectively at the end of the road, i think. >> basel, we nose trump will add this to his list of grievances. >> that's why it made me think of something i talk to my opportunities about. there's different kinds of power. there's the military, and then the power of just my presence, me being in the room or not in the room, that influence causes you to act, because you want to

support me. you want me to benefit from your action. that's an extraordinary amount of power that donald trump knows how to utilize. he doesn't have to be in the room. he doesn't even have to say it through his lips. he just has to be able to sort of send a signal, whether it's to jack smith and his attack on jack smith, or just the fact that he has engaged trumpism in the way that has current it into a cult, where the folks who support him will just act anyway. that's what's so scary. i think tim's point earlier is chutkan's basis of her pin, but to go to the comments that were made, torrent of threats and intimidation, and a pattern of realtime, real-world consequences. there's an awareness he can cause damage, but the reality is that trying to put a muzzle on

him actually doesn't do the job you think it's going to do. what he's already done and the way he's primed his supporters already mean you have to go after it further and further away from him. that's the struggle we have today. look how much trumpism is embedded. >> watching those reading glasses go on and off reminds me of nicolle wallace. i miss her so much. how easy or hard this is to enforce, but also the point that basel makes, which is a smart one. donald trump knows how to use language and rhetoric, even if it's within the confines he's been given, to signal to his supporters what it is he wants. >> right. and he has a lot of surrogates. this applying to him, because

he's the criminal defendant. it does not apply to other people who speak on his behalf or who share his political interests. judges don't have a lot of remedies when it comes to enforcement of a gag order. they can fine a defendant, unlikely to be compelling for a person of the former president's means. they can find failure to comply, that's a high threshold, which essentially means the only way to guarantee he adhere is to incarcerate him. i think that would take something really directly egregious. as harry said, the judge can reassess the order, call her back into court if there are alleged violations, have his lawyers answer that and consider imposing further restrictions, but there's not a lot of tools. the biggest tool and the one i

say most likely, it makes that march 4th trial date increasingly firm. the best way to prevent incendiary pretile cases is to get the case resolved. the more he talks, i think more dug in is the judge on the process form. >> this is from "the washington post," quote -- no other appeals court has dealt with a criminal defendant who is sultaneously running for president and denouncing his prosecution as political in campaign speeches and court filings. the u.s. supreme court has never weighed in on the constitutionality of gag orders against any criminal defendant. the unique nature of this case extraordinarily challenging. >> that's it exactly, alicia. there are tools out there, and they're accurate.

any other defendant that did this things, they would have conditions of release. he's out on release with certain conditions that he's vimt violated flagrantly. he's playing chicken against almost the entire court system nobody wants to be the judge who orders him incarcerated. what will happen with each success i have been violation, they'll have have to, do it again or again, we really mean it. at that point it will be to trump whether he wants to force the ultimate remedy, because tim is right, a fine won't do anything, of incarceration. and they're trying like crazy to avoid it, but it is precisely unique and in reality, people don't understand the keys lie very much in his hands.

it's whether he thinking it's in his political interest to be such a martyr that he walks into jail for a few days, which would be stunning, right? >> you know, michael. we mentioned one area where the d.c. circuit's order paints with a broader brush. this simply outlaws any public statements about known or reasonably foreseeable witnesses concerning their participation. they know who they are dealing with, michael, right? >> yeah. >> they understand the way he operates. >> they do. to jack's excellent point about, you know, that delicate balancing, the problem is, when you discipline your child and you say, i don't want you to take the cookies out of the

cookie jar anymore, and they continue to take the cookius out of the cookie jar, is your response, okay, one more time, if you take the cookie out of the cookie jar -- that's what we're in. at some point you have to slap the hand and say, i said don't take the cookie out of the cookie jar. there has to be a consequence to the action. what donald trump has done is taken the veil of political and wrapped it over every everyone of everything he can, so any action, any word is political. what is he claims is political? january 6th. january 6th was not political. it was not, as the rnc declared, legitimate political discourts. it was in violation of the united states constitution. it was his action. now, the court has to deal with

that. that's what jack smith's role is. he is the mommy/daddy figure going, i told you not to do. you did, now there are consequences. yet and still we find ourselves not wanting to press that, because we all know -- i have said it and will continue to say it -- any other criminal defendant would not be able to wrap themselves with political saran wrap to make themselves -- donald trump thinks he can -- the system won't stop him. that's fomentally our problem. >> amazing the opportunities a former president gives us to compared him to a petulant child.

we're going to look at that story. plus, holding hunter bider accountable? and just which version of donald trump will show up on the witness stand in his civil fraud trial month. will he use this closely watched public appearance as a campaigner? all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues, after this. do not go anywhere. continues, after this. do not go anywhere

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the riotsers somehow deserve protection from having their faces seen in footage from that date. we told you earlier about mike johnson's decision to scrub through footage in order to blur out the faces of those who participated in the riot ahead of the videos' public release. listen to the way johnson's allies are explaining why. here is congressman barry loudermilk? >> we also want to protect the privacy of those who were innocent, they may have been at the capitol, they didn't do anything wrong. there are insurrection hunters who want to go in and -- like, for instance, one of the people that visited my office, was in this room did absolutely nothing wrong, but the january 6th committee let his name out.

he got fired from a job. even though he didn't do anything wrong. if you are here in their mind, you're guilty of something. we want to protect innocent people. >> the word "innocent" doing a lot of work. if he was so concerned about protecting innocent people, perhaps he should have come to the defense of the election workers in his own state. no, since the january 6th rioters, they are the ones who deserve protection. ryan riley, he literally wrote the book on tracking down the capitol rioters. his book "sedition hunters."

loudermilk mentioned sleuths online. you wrote -- none of them hold a candle to the impact the sedition hunters have had, working out of their home offices, kitchen tables, and in one case a sleeper cab of their semitruck. this group of anonymous americans have been working to hold the fbi's feet to the fire to make sure the cases don't get buried. it was a pivot point for the fbi and law enforcement, which were called flat-footed, despite all the warn signs flashing online. ryan, tell us more about the sedition hunters, why they were so vital to deal justice. >> barry loudermilk keeps botching the name, it's not the

insurrection hunters, but sedition hunters, but they had a real impact on the investigations. they're better at organiing a lot of this behind the scenes, which is dealing with the different silos and field offices across the country. the way the fbi puts together cases is really based on paperwork. this is about getting the raw dodd. even though they're blurring this footage, even more footage will continue to eighth. they are usually the ones that were taking outside the capitol. so, that raw closed-circuit camera footage from the capitol can still be used. they look at the item of

clothing, but it is just throwing some sand in the gears here. sometimes i think it puts the fbi to shame in terms of their underlying investigation here. take a listen to this conversation this week. >> i think it's a really important point. i think that the way that we defeat this thread is through the truth, making sure people remember the violent attack, the violence of that assault. so, for example, mike jansen has claimed that he's -- that he's releasing the video. >> he's waiting to believe the faces, right? he said it's time-consuming.

the just department already has they videos, but he's released a very small amount. he's suggesting that every day that goes by, the suggestion that somehow he's going to release something that changed something that day, and will change the facts. there is nothing that will change that vile president assault. >> nothing changes the facts. >> not at all. it goes back to what i was saying earlier. i don't know if -- that's the power that he has even if he doesn't speak it from his limits you're saying at the top, where was the protection? where was the protection for the governor of michigan.

and i also do think about this in terms of race. i was warm-up million black men with the million men march. none of us stormed the capitol. in fact, we cleaned up after ourselves. with any of us had done that, we i would not be here with you today. the fact you have individuals supporting trump who have like-minded support in colleagues in congress their keen on protecting them, it doesn't speak to what happens if donald trump becomes president. it speaks to us the country we are today, that this is something that members of congress are willing to do.

>> will it motivate voters? if you are democrats, how do you keep what happened on january 6th in the foreground? do you want to? >> yeah, you do. i get the economy is so important. i know what's happening globally is important, but this goes to the heart of who we are as a country. to basel's excellent point, we're past the one man thing. this is what people are doing on their own initiative, to protect the man, right? to protect the corruption of the process. that's on you, because guess what, folks? you elect them. you elect them. we have a say in that process.

we have the tools and the keys to fix it. i think more broadly, you know, when you're looking at the idea of, you know, that clip you played with the congressman, you talked about these people are innocent. innocent of what? they breached the capitol by force. there's nothing innocent about that. what are they innocent of? you want to blur their faces. wait a minute, you told us for how long it was black lives matter and an tiffa are you protecting in the meantime now, because you spent the last few years haranging them the last few years for also things he

would be going after them. he would not be looking at this as anything other than what it was -- sedition, insurrection. we have to be honest about this conversation. when we heard this stuff from individuals who want to protect the thing that is corrupting us from within you either accept that, remain silent, or you speak out against it. >> well, they are nothing, if not inconsistent. some of that is by design, because their interest is not actually getting closer to the truth, but muddying the water and distracting. you know the january 6th material just as much as anyone. listen to this. >> we should not -- they should not be dictated as some narrative. they can review the tapes themselves. we're releasing them as quickly

as you can. we have to blue the faces of persons who participated, because we don't want them to be retaliated against and to be charged by the doj, and have other concerns and problems. that's a slow process to get it done. we're working steadily on it. we've hired additional personnel to do that. so johnson says there's a narrative associated with the video, and that's why people -- to come to alternate conclusion. right? there's no other explanation? >> exactly. it is really rich that representative loudermilk is coming forward. we identified him through that very same footage as having hosted a group of people inside

his office in the house office building on january 5th. we wrote to him and asked him, tell us about this group of people that came to you. one of them was taking photographs all around the capitol complex. he refused to come in and provide us with any information about those people who he now is saying on national television did nothing wrong. so we went to the tape. we found that that guy taking pictures was was outside of the capitol saying vulgar things about nancy pelosi, about how great it would be if he was dragged out in the crowd. he was not charged with anyone. he was expressing his first amendment protective right, political speech al bet it vulgar. we didn't accuse him of doing anything wrong. we didn't accuse the congressman of anything wrong. i agree with liz cheney. show every minute of that

footage. it does not chair the core narrative about anything. it is, of course in the public interest to have all of that revealed. it will not change the core fact that a number of people in that crowd -- not everyone, but a number of people created hain outs violence. breached the capitol, and were successful in disrupting the joint session. no amount of spin will change that. >> thank you all for spending time with us. everyone else, you're sticking with me. when we come back, the case against hunter biden. that story is next. biden that story is next it looks like food, it smells like food, it's what dogs are supposed to be eating. no living being should ever eat processed food for every single meal of their life. it's amazing to me how many people write in about their dogs changing for the better. the farmer's dog is just our way to help people

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and now add netflix and max to your plan for just $10 a month. save big this holiday. only on verizon. hunter biden was hit with nine new charges yesterday. the 56-page indictment filed by special counsel david weiss has tax-related charges. hunter biden was indicted almost three months ago, in which he defense attorney says that weiss bowed to pressure.

harry, what do you make of these charges? >> i got to say, i think they are an injustice and abuse of prosecutorial discretion. biden did nothing different from when there was a plea deal on the table that was going to resolve these with two misdemeanor charges. he's not responsible for the plea deals falling apart. this is the exact instance where a superintendent would say, wait a minute, he's paid back all the taxes? this is not how we deal with these cases, but in this case, there is no supervisor, because me rick garland has taken a complete hands-off approach.

harry, walks us through how this unfolds? >> he showed up in los angeles, pleads not guilty. abbe lowell, his very capable and aggressive attorney, has promised to fight them hard. the point is, so much conduct could be charged lightly or heavily. normally you want to do it the same you do for every other defendant. here that hasn't happened, because david weiss is operating independent of doj supervision. what happens next? he's in the fight of his life. he'll have this chances. there are some weaknesses to the charge, but not a welcome day for him at all. >> michael steele, this indictment doesn't appear to refer to president joe biden, doesn't refer to his previous role as vice president. that's not stopped republicans

from already talking about how this somehow confirming the need for an impeachment inquiry. no surprise there, yet a reminder how this invariably to be politicized this. >> yeah, it feeds the beast that needs to be fed. they will do that in spades all day long every day. if they can't get joe, they've got the son. so, you know, to the point that if, you know, hunter's last name were smith, the plea deal would have stood and we wouldn't be having this conversation. you would never know who hunter smith is, but that's not his plight the not what we know. to jack's point. he's going to get slammed here, because of the way that this thing is setting itself up. for joe biden, i think the president has been very clear -- i love my son. my son has had issues with

substance and other issues, and we have tried to care for him. it's led him to make bad decisions, and now he has to account for the decisions. that's how it should be. you cannot create a nexus between hunter biden's behavior and joe biden's presidency. there's no connection there. now, joe biden as a private citizen? yeah, loaned his son some money, he paid it back. he was not in office. there was no quid pro quo, most importantly nothing breached the constitutional requirement that, you know, for impeachment. so the reality of it is, politically it would be used against the president. judicially, and certainly in terms of impeachment process, there's a hard nexus here to the president. >> a distinction we keep coming back to. harry, as always, thank you for

joining us. up next we'll ask mike although and basel why more republicans aren't sounding the alarm bell quite loud enough. e alarm bell quite loud enough. hi! need new glasses? get more from your benefits at visionworks. how can you see me squinting? i can't! i'm just telling everyone! ...hey! use your vision benefits before they expire. visionworks. see the difference.

would you vote for joe biden? >> i'm going to do whatever i have to do to defeat him.

>> trump? >> to defeat trump. we don't know yet who exactly the candidates will be. so, i think that that's the kind of thing that will be clearer certainly in the next couple months. i would never vote for donald trump again and i will do whatever it takes to beat him. fair to say from nicolle's exchange and countless other, liz cheney is outspoken against trump. but where are the rest of the anti-trump republicans? there's a politico piece out saying it is now or never. in that piece, just under a month until the iowa caucuses, there's a striking lack of urgency among republicans.

there is little action. we are back with michael and basel. this is the question we come back to again and again. you ran this party. you have watched this party change. i do wonder what you make of this sort of, like, last-call energy? is not the last call? >> yes, it's been the last call for a while. look, ivan calling the last time for a long time. i had hair when i started this last call. [ laughter ] >> this is where we are, folks. i think it's important to understand that. everybody's talking about this is such a moment, and, you know, existential crisis. yeah, existential, this is it right here. you got to decide where you are and what you believe. liz cheney very clear, donald trump ain't the guy, no, not doing that. same with me. i diplomat do it in '16, didn't

do it in '20, damn sure won't do it in '24. you all have to make up your mind. it's not enough to rationalize it away. on the other side of that is a hellscape. the man is telling you what the country will look like under his rule. not his governance, but under his rule. concentration camps in texas. there's no guarantee, come tuesday or friday, got to watch what you say. you want to live in a world in which you can't criticize the president when he puts forth a policy that's backwards? or harms american citizens? that's on the other side of your rationalization. jon man martin has got it exactly right.

you got to stand up or deal with what comes next. >> one contours is this conversation about endorsements, right? that that is something in focus right now. let's willen to what snort romney said -- it's a depressioning indication of our polarize the time that mitt romney and rep cheney could only hurt desantis or hailey going to their side. >> michael knows this better than i, but from a party per spect i have, i had where are the donors? if they have an opportunity to come together, saying we need to support someone else, that would bring some folks with them. that may be true, but the grassroots is not going to go

for that. i think to michael's point, we're at a place and time where it doesn't look like the grassroots of the rep party can be moved by any of those gesture. i don't know that there's a republican equivalent of south carolina, for example, of jim clyburn. i don't know there's one person to say we're going with this one, not that one. if we had the party machines that we used to have, which folks don't like anymore, they want something more decentralized, you could have a party boss say, sit down, you're next. even if we had that, the grassroots seems to be so firmly behind donald trump, i don't know if it would make a difference. in a way, one can say we can wait this out, but the problem is we've been saying this the whole hour, trumpism is so embedded in who we are. this is the country that we have. it's not about just electing

donald trump and things will turn. what do we need to do to change it? >> basil, thank you for being with me this hour. michael, same. trials are set to crash on with the primaries. we'll have a very quick break, and we'll be right back. l have , and we'll be right back. this isn't charmin! no wonder i don't feel as clean. hurry up dad! i'm trying! this cheap stuff is too thin! here's charmin ultra strong! ahhh! my bottom's been saved! woohoo! with its diamond weave texture, charmin ultra strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort. what's everybody waiting for? this? we all go, why not enjoy the go with charmin. and for a shower-fresh clean feeling try charmin flushable wipes!

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here we go. with a partner that alwcan we land? first. you're old enough to do it in the sky now. but it's gross. there is no way we're landing. are you sure no one is watching? gwen mallard! do it now, or we leave without you. ok. i respectfully decline to answer the questions.

>> did the 2020 -- is that correct? >> same answer. >> same answer. >> is that your signature on page 2? >> same answer. hi again, everyone, it is 5:00 in new york. then there's the answer that's cruel, combative, even mixes up his former wife with the woman accusing of raping her. >> she wouldn't be my type in any way, shape or form. you wouldn't be a choice of mine, either. i hope you're not insulted. i don't even know the woman, if it's marla -- >> you say marla is in the photo? >> yeah. >> which one are you pointing

to? >> here. who you just pointed to was e. jean carroll. >> oh, okay. we do not know which of the two trumps will appear on the witness stand all signs point to the ladder. the first time you'll recall was last month when he testified for the prosecution, an appearance marked by nasty attacks against the new york ag prosecutors and the judge. trump has been in the courtroom multiple times as lately as yesterday everybody --, as well as lashing out in front of the cameras. defendants are not required to

be in court, but this being one of the many legal cases against trump, he has several set for trial next year. the ex-president has framed himself as under attack. "new york times" wte the loomen coalition between the two. he's tried to blur all four cases together as one giant witch-hunt. he has asailed the judges, prosecutors and witnesses involved in the leveraging moments from gag orders again him have been temporarily lifted. he's also sustained a publicity blitz, comparing himself to nelson mandela. that is where we start today, a very full table. lisa reuben, katy fang, and host of the donny deutsche. friends, good to see you all.

what happened today? >> today in court was more testimony from a new york city university accounting professor, but he was forced today to admit how much he's been paid, and more interesting, where he's getting the money from. he says his bank stales show the invoices very paid by the trump organization and save america pac. we'll have to wait for filings after the end of this year, how much trump's donors have given to the witness to try to rescue him a case that has nothing to do with any of the actions he could have taken as president. >> just to remind anyone who wasn't watching today, this is a man who got up, told donald

trump what he wanted to hear, and even started to go at it. >> he did. one of the prosecutors said, kind of snidely i will add, he was saying exactly what he was hired to today. in a trumpian way, he look at him, put his finger out and say, you should be ashamed of himself, as if he had no idea where he was sitting. rather, he went to the trumpian place immediately. you could see why trump liked it. it wasn't because he has a credential a mile longs. >> what's next week? >> i know katie probably has a different opinion. i think it's unseen if he'll show up. i think his lawyers are afraid that just being present, there's a risk he could now violate the

gag order a third time. the penalties for contempt in new york, whether civil or criminal, include time in jail. if you are chris kise and team, you have to be worried about can my client contain himself, irrespective of the fact that relationship has nothing to do with the testimony they would want to elicit. does he show up? >> they don't control him. he does not care. he's looked at cash fines, the threat of incarceration. >> he'll say the more evidence of the justice system trying to get me. i think he'll actually not be out of control.

it is a defense case in chief. the defense controls his testimony. whether or not he's able to control his temper when he's being cross-examined, we have already seen it. when he was called, he was an adverse witness. he was not on their side. even though he doesn't have the composure that's necessary in court, we have seen how he converts bad behavior into cash. that's all he cares about. >> look, i agree with katie. this, for him is a nice moment. you would think the donors giving money would somehow be up. they're not. they're happy to pay it. this guy said i'll be dictator day one. i don't think he's worried about the fact sitting with the ag, certainly the average trump voter, rich guys do this all the time. he has shown up. for him, this is part of his brand. >> yes. >> i'm going to take on the man,

i'm fighting the good fight. the same way they would go after you, they're going after me. >> isn't there a bit of duality? >> he's not happy about this from a business point of view. this hits him in his gut. he talks about how inflated he is, so there's two sites. he can't do business in new york, but as far as his political brand, it's a win for him. >> if you were fanni willis, jack smith, he shows up on monday, takes the stand on monday, what is it then you are watching for? >> everything that he says. that's the point, right? he's a loose cannon. remember, the actual facts are limited in scope. they're focusing on a particular period of time, particular acts of conduct that are relevant to

his business enterprises. that's it. if he goes offscript, which inevitably he does, how far offscript is what will pique someone's interest. the first count in the complaint that was brought by the new york ag, letitia james, it's been the death nell, the deathblow to his businesses. the rest is honey, just icing on the cake for letitia james. the other thing is this. this is a bench trial. we have to harp on that over appeared over again. there's no grandstanding there. there's no audience. the only person that gets a benefit is donald trump. justice engoron has made it clear. >> can i build off something

katie said. judge engoron has decided to take a different tack. he was much tighter about applying the rules of evidence than he is now, largely because i think he's decided where he's going with his ruling. he doesn't want the exclusion of evidence to be another base for trump's appeal. he's letting the witnesses go on for much longer stretches on topics not related to the questions before them, which is what we wouldn't recognize as traditional behavior. it's stunning to me how much rope he's given them. but if you give trump enough rope, he eventually hangs himself. this gag order refers to two incidents, one the infamous town hall, where he said my followers

hang on every word, and they used that as proof that he needed to be restrained. they quote from an affirmation from a court staff, where he recorded threats. that affirmation came in two days after oral argument. if you don't think they judges and prosecutors are all watching each other, you're deluding yourself. >> they're trying to shut me up and they can't. this trial, as i said, i ware it wasn't happening as far as hi political future. i think it adds to this whole who i am, what they're doing to some he. >> as the bat away the gag orders, which i understand, do you think there's a possibility if there's a possibility of jail time? if you're talking about a karim case. >> apples and oranges, come

march. >> why? >> you're talking about a trial that's trying to overthrow the election. we're talking about a trial that i think, to many americans, no, that's something a little different here. i think to many people even outside the trumpers, they see this as a rich guy playinging footsit, but i'm talking about the main event is in march. >> do you think that changes his posture? >> i think it changes his posture. there's different about being blueser,about trying to overthrow an election. i think it's more different to navigate that the way -- >> we're talking about democracy. >> yeah. >> very quickly, i disagree with donnie. >> most people do. >> it's all good. >> it's usually a winning place.

>> the gag order with judge chutkan, that's a different thing. judge chutkan will not tolerate it. >> yes. >> that's currently in place, right? that's going to be in existence. that is different. i don't think it takes us getting to march to have some import if that gad order. judge's engoron's gag order also has teeth. does judge engoron have the courage -- does he have the courage to put donald trump? jail? judge which the can, absolutely. the conversation we're having is against the back drop, yes, he's a defendant in both cases. he's also likely to be the republican nominee for the presidency. we'll talk about how that scrambles things for the brand, politically, and we're seeing it pop up in all these cases how it

complication the case. >> there's a discussion of this in this d.c. circuit opinion. there's a discussion about not only the importance of political speech, but whether or not his political speech as a candidate for president needs to be more important than the just administration of his trial. the court decides, no. his life as a political candidate, contrasted with his life as a criminal defendant. >> politically? >> politically in terms of which case? >> the fact that he -- he is both things at the same time. >> here's a guy that's indicted for taking nuclear secrets, causing an insurrection, trying to met with the electrical system. the voters don't care. the question is will that small

liver of voters in a few of the swing states, do they care? i think the bigger discussion goes back to the first hour. paint him as a fascist. >> i think the other thing, this is unavoidable where it will end up, the collision between the politics of this and the law of it will get you to the supreme court. that's what you have to keep an eye on. there is this journey that cases take, civil or karim. sometimes they don't get to the sprblgt. when you have the political free speech, when you have the criminal administration of justice, never the tween shall meet? i don't know. >> it does feel like i'm always reading a children's adventure work, all ending at the supreme

court. chuck rosenberg was asked by "new york times" about trump using these case to say help him political. he said -- there's no useful precedent for this in any dimension you want to analyze it. the turbulence is particularly dangerous. if he's convicted, he's set the stage for a large portion of the population to reject the jury's verdict. he also has a call to arms. there's other dangers that attend to his rhetoric. >> i'm mindful of our friend who you work with, appeared in her conversations, they have on which talked by autocracy creeping in is people stopping to listen to court orders. if he either does not obey an order or his followers don't accept it, the faulk that people no longer accept the legitimacy of court is a sign of things to

come. he's warned us who he will be. >> there will be one jury here and that's the american voters. this is now a "we" issue. this comes down to who we are going forward. do we care about law and order anymore? do we care about freedom of speech? freedom of the speech? do we care about not putting political opponents in jail? >> we've been there. american voters did speak -- >> i'm talking about this time. >> how many times do you have to have this? >> this is the big act coming up. >> he's not going to accept the results when he loses. the difference is, if he loses, and there's not much he can do at this point. i'm saying if he wins, it's all over.

we'll see what the supreme court says. donnie deutsche just writing copy for presidential ads on the set. >> as we speak. >> thank you. ms. rubin, thank you. >> you're doing a great job, by the way. a hard chair to fill. >> thank you. an impact chair to fill. the justices debated picking up two pivotal cases that could dermabores access to millions across the country. j.d. advance goes after a prominent critic, proving his point, and later in the program, intense combat in gaza, leading to a warn from the united nations that order is breaking down in the enclave. we'll have a live report from the region. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break, so don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break, so don't go anywhere

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now we firn yourselves in truly a dystopian environment, where a patient in the middle of a health emergency is coming to court saying, please, let my doctor save my life, save my fertility, and the state of texas sending letters to the hospitals, targeting her personally? i truly don't know what to say. that was the attorney for indicate cox, a woman in texas who was forced to ask a judge to allow her doctor to perform a medically urgent abortion. today, the united states supreme court is considering whether to hear cases that could put

millions more women in kate's shoes. for where their doctors can intervene to save their lives and health. the supreme court will decide whether the abortion pill can remain legal and widely available. to be clear, the court's decision to take up case at all could dramatically impact the womanight to access the bill. the court is also taking a look by the state of idaho, demanding permission to prosecutor e.r. doctors that provide abortion care in the middle of a crisis. joining our conversation, o'neal professor of constitutional law and global health policy at

georgetown law school, michelle goodwin is here. katie is also back. michelle, what is at stake here? >> the potential that the pill would become less available in the marketplace. the fifth circuit has not accept the full scope of what the plaintiffs wanted, which was that is the abortion drug could be removed -- the supreme court issued a stay on that, but the case went back to the fifth circuit. the fifth circuit basically said it will be repugnant for the doctors and the medical providers who brought this case, one of whom who is a dentist, but repugnant if they had to serve people after an abortion and they were somehow injured.

the court did in fact grant much of what they wanted, which was to say that much of the expanded use of the drug would be rolled back to pre-2016. that includes not having the drug available for a up to ten weeks of pregnancy ant other advancementshat had liberalized the drug in the marketplace. >> women who live in states where abortion access is currently legal, they could still see themselves limited in access? >> yes, the fda is not limited to certain areas. it's a national association, a national organization that as consequences across the country. what's important about this, this is indicative if the supreme court chooses not to take up these appeals. there was one from the biden

administration, one from a drug manufacturer, and one from the original plaintiffs that lost that small portion in front of the fifth circuit, if they don't take this case up, it's yet another waging of a war to different fronts of the war on reproductive rights. that is important, because it's yet another part of our reproductive freedom that's being taken away. it's not just a concern that it's got to stop at abortion process, but contraception, and it will keep on going. the fact there's a weaponization of the legal system by a group of people who want to assert their conservative anti-rights position, is a problem. that's why the supreme court make a decision as to whether or not you address it, but then you have the baked-in fear that this ultra-conservative scotus will say we're going to get move involved.

this could have bigger implications. >> i was just so struck by the ag writing the letter, doctors beware, if you go ahead and help, i have my eye on you. that is, michelle, very much by design. >> that's right. what we see as a doubling down. to be clear inned dobbs decision, the court said it would leave these matters to state, so what you see in this case, it would be a federal ban. now, in the state of texas, what we see in the cox case is the doubling down, the incredible cruelty, the disregard even for state courts. that is, to say the petition was granted by a state court judge, who said that, if she is not allowed to terminate the

pregnancy, this in fact could pose a risk to any future pregnancies that she wants. she wants to have another child. of course, this pregnancy itself is not only one that's unviable, but one that could potentially risk her life. what we see in the response by paxton is -- really a doubling ton. it's the kind of nature of what we have seen in other states as well, a doubling down, the smearing of doctors and the risks that doctors now face if they want to serve appeared protect their patients. in texas, what this means is the potential to lose your license to practice up to 99 years incarceration if in fact found to be karimly guilty of violating the law, and up to $100,000 fine. overall what we see, and i think this is an important point, a demise of our democracy, when there's no respect for the

judiciary when in fact a court says in this case, i think abortion should be granted. >> michelle, just to underscore how strict this law in idaho is, an abortion cannot be performed unless that the abortion was necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman. what does that mean in practical terms? who then can get an abortion? >> well, it's extreme in what it does, in a real practical sense, it pushes a person to being near death before a doctor can intervene. in such an emergency, the real question is whether one can stave off the potential mortality or morbidity. i think it's important to level set. there's so much rhetoric that surfaces around abortion. a person is 14 times more likely

to die in the united states by carrying a pregnancy to term rather than an abortion. the united states ranking around 55th in the world in terms of maternal mortality. if you're a black woman, you're 3 1/2 more times by trying to carry a pregnancy to term than your white counterpart. that number may double, triple, quadruple, depending on what place one is living in. if we look back at roe, is that that was a 7-2 decision. five of those seven justices were republican appointed. so, what we see is a bridge that is very far from where we were 50 years ago, and now with these abortion bans, there are no exceptions for either rape or

incest that's now the american landscape in some states when it comes to abortion and reproductive freedom overall. >> michelle goodwin, thank you. katie, you're sticking with me. a trump ally calls for the prosecution of one of the trump's critics. what it tells us about the dangers of trump back in the white house. that's next. ngers of trump backe white house. that's next. utter sfx] he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned?] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing it for nearly a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen.

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are promising america tonight you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody. >> except for day one. >> you know what they say, wn someone tells you who they are, believe them. he effectively promised to weaponize the government to go after enemies, abusing his power. in a chillingop-ed, quote -- can trump win the election? the answer, unless something radical unforeseen ens, is, of course hecan. nowaga enthusiast j.d. vance is calling for merrick garland

to investigate kagan for allegedly inciting an insurrection with his words, and called for kagan's wife to be stripped of her security clearance. it's a stunt, of course, but it's almost as if the ohio republican is trying to prove kagan right. joiningous conversation is corn el belcher, and host of -- i do not have rev, so cornell, i'm going to you. you have a u.s. sitting senator for attempting to criticize a journalist. >> it's chilling, but it also should tell us something. for years we've been told the establishment and republican senators and longtime established senators would be a guardrail. what you're seeing in the senate right now, for another trump

presidency, there is not going to be a guardrail, right? we have senators who are very much in line with him, and help him going after some of the his political enemies. we should all be chilled and frightened there may not be any guard rails whatsoever. so let's illustrate that point. you have a republican senator saying good after kagan, and merrick garland is not listening to j.d. vance. >> he also said it to antony blinken. >> if it is a trump-appointed ag. the story is very different. >> absolutely. we've seen what can happen with somebody in talking about people

that might be the attorney general. how do we know that name? i don't know, he's been indicted. the problem we had here is j.d. vance, senator, united states senator from the great state of iowa, he's a yale educated lawyer. i went to yale, i'm a lawyer. we don't claim him. let me be clear. a yale educated lawyer thinking tongue in cheek this is funny? this is not funny. he put on truth social. he will put you and ain a create. he's going to go after his critics. i'm going to silence my critics, put them in jail, responsible who has negative to say, i'm going to silence them. what about people that were

antitrump during the administration? they had the same thing happen to them. this is truly that moment, like i said. if someone shows who they are, i don't know why people don't care more? they need to. this is very serious. the fact that j.d. vance is echoes, parroting what donald trump says, we should abe kernel. >> cornell, regardless of whether or not trump is to win a second term, the trumpism is so embedded, that you have f like j.d. vance. this is from axios reporting- themer president trump would build a cabinet and and a commitments to tell action i don't know that trump would fell the most powerful positions with

people like j.d. advance and stephen miller, taking controversial legal and military action. a lot to unpack, but you have to wonder if the stunt that j.d. vance is pulling here is just an audition for trump. >> you have to think it is, but also an audition for the end of our democracy. what katie laid out isn't only just possible, but frankly given the things that trump has said, it's very likely. one of the things he's talked about is invoking the insurrection act. if he calls up the military and places the military in and around our cities and countries to put down americans and go after his enemies, what kagan is talking about isn't plausible, it's actually going to have. you'll have armed conflict. you'll have the second civil war if this man is elected.

they should have skin in the game, right? so all those middle americans who think this is some game in washington, no, your children will grow up in an america where there's no longer a democratic society, and a lot of rights, especially women the rights you all have fought for and still are trying to hold on, say good-bye to that. you have skin in this game. that is spoken like someone who has watched on lot of focus groups. given you are the one at this 340789 hearing from voters most directly, i think part of what you just said touches at the nerve, the idea that it's happening in washington, d.c. and he has sold folks on the idea that washington and government is so broken, it doesn't matter if i walk in and explode it, because it's all the same to you. part of the onus on democrats has been, and i would argue the biden administration has done a

fine job, is proving that government can create positive change in the lives of american people, but for donald trump, it behooves him to have americans bought into this narrative that it's all chaos that is happening somewhere else. >> and understand, hi friends in congress right now are helping, right? you have a congress, a republican-led house, that's the most do-nothing as congress in history. it's all chaos appeared broken. right now congress is at historical low approval rating. i think congress couldn't good a lower approval rating than the last two decades, but i was wrong. it's even lower right now. they're actually helping prove the point about donald trump that washington is broken and needs to be shaken up, and it needs to be cleaned out. >> you referenced, katie, this idea that people are like, he was just joking when he said

this thing about a dictator. it is one thing that people tweet that at us from an account that does not have a first or last name. it is another thing when you hear it from establishment republicans, even some surprising republicans. i don't know if saw this, senator romney, no friend of trump's, sought to claim plausible deniability. he's firing up the beast. i don't know that i attach great importance to the things he said. i don't know if it's cognitive dissonance that people have seen what he's done, but it seems painful to imagine the downfall of democracy, that there are republicans not willing to reckon with it, yet, it's right in -- the right opportunity by shane hannity gave him the chance to not say dictator, but

he leaned in. >> he's failing americans. it doesn't matter your political party. romney may not be in public service anymore, you may be a republican, a democrat, independent, who cares? you're an american. when you have people like j.d. advance, lindsey graham, people that legitimize appeared give credibility to ideas that donald trump is allowed to do these things as a dictator and they'll put stamps on approval on it, the thing that j.d. vance does, is the distortion of the law. we've talked about the rule of law, and how important it is. it's something i've thought a lot about. as we heard at the beginning of the show, whether donald trump will ignore a court order or verdict, if you don't have rule of law, you have nothing. that's exactly the kind of chaos that cornell and you speak of. the chaos -- it's not from the democrats, so when you have

people like j.d. vance, saying i'm going to send this her, but just did iing, but it's on united states senate letterhead. this is a legitimization of something that should never seen the light of day. we have veered so off center course, we think it's okay for people to do this. it's not. this should be enough for censure, voter take your ridiculous present i'm just one of you, wink-wink thing, and just go away. if people aren't going to pay attention, we have a serious problem. >> what a treat to have both of you with me. thank you so much. we'll be right back. me. thank you so much. we'll be right back.

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lower. longer. leqvio® it is imperative, remains imperative to have civilian protection. we could have israeli re-occupation of gaza. we can't have forced displacement of palestinians from gaza. we cannot have the territory of gaza diminished in any wa secretary of antony bl calling to israel to protect civilians in gaza. the united nations is warning of humanitarian catastrophe. today, israel is expanding the military campaign in the southern gaza strip where hundreds of thousands of civilians seeking refuge after

orders from israel to evacuate from the north. the white house says in a call to benjamin netanyahu yesterday, joe biden emphasized the need to protect citizens. let's bring in richard engel in jerusalem. what is the latest on the ground in gaza? >> reporter: people, are moving from place to place. he stopped going to rafah, the furthest point you can go in the gaza strip. the city just to the north of gaza is younis, which is

currently under attack. we've been speeding with people there, in some cases they are choosing to stay, even though it's directly under attack. they believe going further sort to raft is no better, gauze that will be the next place that israel attacks. they have a sophie's choice here. two sisters survived attack. they've been displaced seven different times, but they said their father is still alive, not sure whether they will go to rafah yet.

they have to places to say go in rafah. prices are extraordinarily high. there's no place to say rent, no relatives they have to be welcomed in. there's not clean water. they're choosing to stay where they are, under attack rather than go somewhere that might be safer temporarily. they're injured as well. one of the girl's arm is in a sling, the other has a broken leg. they adopt know what's coming next. that's multiplied over 2.3 million people. the israelis say they have no choice. you hear that time and time again here in israel. it tried to negotiate with the political cans under arafat. it evacuated settlements from gaza strip, but hamas built up a military structure appeared attacked israel on october 7th.

so the situation seems hopeless for them. >> we heard secretary blinken sharpening criticism there. your sense of how that's being received? >> reporter: well, on the ground so far it's not making any difference. it might be a warning to the israeli government. if you listened to what secretary blinken cause saying about the end state. first he talked more humanitarian aid, more needs to be done to protect civilians, but then he said we don't want to see the reoccupation of gaza by israel. they doesn't want to see gazans displaced outside of gaza.

the united states doesn't want to see gazans pushed into egypt. that's what many people in gaza believe is the goal of this operation, is to evacuate the gaza strip, and push all the people in gaza into sinai. he doesn't want to see it diminished, meaning he doesn't want parts of gaza carved out and created into safe zones. whether israel will take that into consideration, so far it doesn't seem so, but the united states has a lot of influence if it wants to show it. >> richard, thank you. when we come back today, news today on vladimir putin's future in russia. that's next. n vladimir putin's future in russia that's next.

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