first time i connected with kim, she told me that her husband had passed. and that he took care of all of the internet connected devices in the home. i told her, “i'm here to take care of you.” connecting with kim... made me reconnect with my mom. it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. >> and a good sunday morning to i'm here to thank you.

you all. i am katie phang. welcome to the katie phang show. we are going to start today's show with a capitol hill countdown as lawmakers have just four more days of work before they head home for the holidays. i'm joining you live from msnbc world headquarters in new york city. we have lots of news to cover and lots of questions to answer. let's get started. failure to lead -- the president of a prominent ivy league university steps down amid public outrage after a disastrous congressional hearing on the rise of antisemitism on college campuses. we're going to go inside the fallout ahead and a live report from capitol hill. state of emergency -- catastrophic storms strike tennessee, leaving a trail of death and destruction. six people, including at least one child, are dead, and dozens more are injured. we are live on the ground in the storm zone. >> no, i am not a threat. i will save democracy.

the threat is crooked it joe biden. >> plus, day one dictator says he will save democracy. trump's latest rambling ramps and the new signs that he is going to do time in the fulton county, georgia election interference case. that is all ahead. a good sunday morning to you all. i am katie phang. we're going to start today's show with a capitol hill countdown. lawmakers have four days left of work before they get to head home for the holidays. those four days are going to be a doozy. speaker mike johnson believes he has the necessary folks to formalize an ongoing impeachment inquiry into president biden, claiming that president biden and his family improperly profited from policy decisions which were made when biden was vice president. the white house accurately calls the move a, quote, baseless stunt because house republicans have failed to produce any shred of evidence of any high crime or

misdemeanor. with a slim democratic majority in the senate, it's unlikely biden would be convicted even if the house managed to pass articles of impeachment. this gop circus sideshow is a massive waste of your tax dollars and time, especially with t realities that another battle over government funding will loom on again when lawmakers return after the new year. there is also late breaking fallout from a disastrous congressional hearing. university of pennsylvania president liz mcgill resigned after facing calls to step down over her testimony on capitol hill that was centered on on campus antisemitism last week. that testimony jerk racism from everyone from the white house to high-profile alumni. the board of trustees chair also announced he is stepping down immediately according to a university spokesperson. nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie tsirkin is live for us this morning. good morning. it's good to see you. let's start with what happened with liz mcgill, congresswoman elise stefanik posting online,

quote, one down, two to go. what are you hearing from other lawmakers about the congressional hearing and the resulting resignation of mcgill? >> yeah, katie, it's good to be with you. it's not just elise stefanik and it's not just the white house out of democrats. we heard from several democratic lawmakers in the house and senate expressing outrage to this hearing. it wasn't just the upenn president who took part in it. you had two others from m.i.t. and harvard. one of them had a viral exchange with at least stefanik, the president of harvard, claudine gay, where she was asked multiple times whether antisemitism, calls for genocide against jewish students violated the harvard code of conduct on campus. she refused to answer that to the standards, any standards for republicans, for democrats, for anybody watching the hearing. stefanik and virginia foxx, the chairwoman of the house education committee leading this hearing and that investigation that was subsequently launched, have both condemned their

testimonies, have accepted the resignation of the upenn president, and have called for m.i.t. and harvard to do the same in those cases. i expect the investigation will continue. they said they will use their full subpoena power to make sure they investigate all universities and colleges across the nation to see what they are doing to combat the growing rise of antisemitism. >> julie, you also have new reporting for our viewers that a number of hispanic and latino members of congress are becoming increasingly concerned that joe biden may end up striking a deal with a relic in san emigration that they would find unacceptable in order to get some ukraine and israel aid packages passed. what exactly are you hearing? >> katie, one of the democrats only the republican offer on immigration proposes is unimaginably cool. this all comes down to do with that ukraine aid. we heard a rollicking it demands, including from speaker johnson, saying they won't pass the necessary aid to ukraine unless there are fundamental changes to the border and

immigration process. this is a debate which is not quickly solved overnight. congress hasn't done anything meaningful on immigration in three decades, in part because this issue is so difficult politically and also practically. i have some new reporting along with my colleagues, monica alba, julia ainsley, and sahil kapoor, that the congressional hispanic aukus requested an urgent meeting with president biden over a week ago. they said they felt dodged by the white house, by negotiators who are sitting in the room without them. these are the folks who have skin in the game. you have members of the group who represent border districts. i spoke to a number of them and they said they wanted to be involved in negotiations and in discussions. they are concerned along with immigration advocates that the asylum changes, the parole changes will go much too far and are untenable for them to vote for. >> nbc capitol hill correspondent julie tsirkin, as always, good to see you. thank you for getting us started this morning.

joining me now on set, former new york congressman mondaire jones. he's running again. that is some good news here. he's running in new york's 17th district. it's always so good to see you. thank you for coming this morning. let's start with what we heard this morning from julie. you've been in the halls of congress. you've had to navigate different competing interests. to julie's point, doesn't seem like it makes sense to ignore the latino caucus and the hispanic caucus when it comes to this issue of immigration? that seems to be what is tying things up here. >> it's always a good idea to take every member of congress's concerns into consideration, but this gamesmanship that we are seeing republicans play with respect to important aid to ukraine and our ally israel is emblematic of the chaos that the republicans in the house had embraced all year long. it's why they are the most unproductive congress since the great depression by a number of measures, including the number of bills which have become law. they only control one chamber

of congress. by the way, katie, i don't know a single democrat who doesn't want to secure the border. i sure as heck do. we need to get aid very quickly to our allies who need american a leadership. by the way, this impacts us here in the united states of america. i would hope that republicans would stop playing games and work in earnest with the white house in their democratic allies. >> straight shooting, if there is so much chaos in congress, if the republicans don't operate in good faith, if nothing is getting done, why do you want to go back to d.c.? >> i want to finish the work that i started it last time in the 117th congress, the most productive congress in modern history. you know, we did a remarkable things. that work is unfinished, especially around saving democracy, codify roe v. wade, this far-right supermajority just eviscerated it overnight. we rescued the economy from collapse at the height of covid-19. we funded a national testing

and vaccination strategy which simply did not exist under the previous president who told us all to drink bleach, if you remember the words of donald trump. we pass the largest infrastructure bill in generations. i was a lead negotiator of that, in fact. we kept the cost of prescription drugs. we have to build upon that work as serious people which is what the democratic leadership in congress is compared to republicans who now have the gavel, at least for the time being. >> another example of how unserious republican leadership is, how speaker mike johnson, one of the least experienced in congress, the house speaker is now driving an impeachment inquiry a vote. he's quick to make clear it's not a vote for impeachment, just a continual inquiry. you and i are lawyers. we know you have to have evidence. so far, after months of these inquiries, nothing has come to bear. why would it make sense to cheat americans, not just republican americans, but all americans, from something

getting done to drive this type of ridiculous inquiry? >> their economic agenda is deeply unpopular. all they want to do is cut taxes for the wealthiest americans. they don't want to lower the cost for everyday folks like the family that i grew up in. it is really important to consider that when you see that they are pressing forward with the baseless impeachment inquiry that even their own republican witnesses say are without basis at that very first oversightar september. my opponent mike lawler is very much part of that. >> he is thick as thieves with that. >> he's very much part of that. this is someone who, like everyone else, voted for mike johnson, the most radical and extreme speaker of the house in the history of this country. rather than to the work of the american people, the work that the americans wanted to see this republican majority to, whether it's improving public safety, protecting and restoring basic freedoms,

cutting the cost of living, economic concerns are top of mind for americans, as you know, especially with inflation what it is today. they are focused on gamesmanship and shenanigans to inflame tensions which is the only way they get reelected, scaring people rather than doing the work. >> some people say, mondaire, that politics is local politics. it's what's in our backyard. what is your district, the 17 congressional district, telling constituents that they want you to do because it is important to them? >> they want serious people in office. they want their member of congress to be a serious person who passed this legislation that has a real life impact for them. they are paying way too much for health care. they are concerned that the fundamental right to an abortion will no longer exist even in our home state of new york if there is a national abortion ban which is enacted. under speaker mike johnson, a republican majority, it would

continue to exist if we don't take back the house. god forbid donald trump returns to the white house and we don't hold on to the senate. these are real things that could happen. people are concerned about kids getting gunned down in schools around the country. my opponent mike lawler does not support an assault weapons ban and would never vote for a speaker who would bring a universal background check to the floor of the house to an up or down vote. these and so many issues are top of mind for so many folks. they are trying to wrap their heads around why we will be going forward with a baseless impeachment inquiry and why republicans would be trying to condition aid to israel and opposing aid to ukraine in the midst of a mad man, flatter food, and trying to defeat a free people. his ambitions do not stop at the border. >> former congressman mondaire jones, running for the congressional district of the 17th district in new york, listen, i am glad to hear you want to go back there because

things need to be cleaned up and i'm sure you can do it. i appreciate you being here. let's turn now to the tornado outbreak which tore a deadly and destructive path through parts of the southeast, leaving, tragically, at least half a dozen people, including a child, dead. and we see news correspondent marissa parra joins us live from nashville. daylight is shedding new light on to the destruction which was wreaked across this region. what's the latest that you are hearing from authorities this morning? >> hey, katie. we just got an email from nashville police confirming the identities of three of the six people who were killed in the rush of storms yesterday. i want to read those names out to you. 37 year old joseph johnson, gabrielle perez, and her son, just two years old, anthony mendez. we understand mom and son were inside of a home and a mobile home that the 37 year old

joseph adult and was inside. it was flown against that residents. these are really sad and scary situations. people were trying to take shelter in the closest place they could find. another example of exactly that right here where we are. we are in nashville. this is a corner of nashville not too far away from nesbit lane. these areas saw significant damage. behind me, now that we have sun and daylight, you can see rubble behind me. this was a community center. this was a church it was here that nashville police say 13 people had to be rescued from inside one of these areas collapsed. the reason we can't get closer, by the way, katie, this is as close as we can get. you can see just a cascading tower of power lines on the ground here. people are blocking this off to make sure that people don't put themselves at risk. we have seen people who said that they have family members

who were inside. they are not able to go claim there things because police are keeping them from being inside of here. look at the images from last night. those images or striking. you see not only flinging debris, snapping power lines, igniting fires, explosions, and as we know, it caused a lethal amount of damage, one of the hardest hit areas. that is where we understand those three people have been identified that we talked about, katie, really hard hit areas. >> nbc news correspondent marie sorrowfully, stay safe and i thank you for joining us this morning. still to come on the katie phang show, why florida's first lady casey desantis is being forced to walk back some of her recent comments about the iowa caucus. republican presidential hopeful vivek mama sami's disturbing promise about how people treat immigrants if he wins the white house. that's next. wins the whit house. that's next. that's next.

but then i figured it's just walking, right? [dog barks] oh. no it's just a bunny! calm down taco. sit duchess. stop! sesame no no. archie! walter don't, no, ahhhh. ahhhhh! you're lucky you're so cute. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ remember the things you loved... ...before asthma got in the way? fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's designed to target and remove them and helps prevent asthma attacks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. get back to better breathing. ask your doctor about fasenra. >> now, to the latest in the

2024 race to the white house. most of the field of republican presidential hopefuls are on the ground in iowa this weekend hoping to court voters with the caucus just weeks away. hope is all they really cado at this point as presumptive front runner donald trump continues to hold on to a commanding lead in polls within that state. meanwhile, the wife of florida

governor ron desantis is making headnes in iowa for all the wrong reasons. she walked back her comments seemingly inviting supporters to commit voter fraud by, quote, descending upon the state of iowa to be a part of the caucus. you of course must be a resident of that state to actually participate. vivek ramaswamy competing for top trump sycophant of the week, telling reporters he would expand the former presidents muslim travel ban but he did not share details on how exactly and why. joining me now, lucy caldwell, political strategist and former campaign manager for joe walsh's 2024 presidential campaign and former democratic congresswoman donna edwards. it is so nice to see both of you. lucy, i would like to start with you. let's start with vivek ramaswamy's claims that he would expand the muslim ban. lucy, he reminds me of those kids when we were growing up who would be bullied on the playground and then follow that same bully around in the hopes that they would like him. is he still auditioning light

the others? >> i don't think that vivek is auditioning for the role of vice president. i think vivek is auditioning for a newsmax anchor role or a turning point u.s. a main stage speakership. this is a person who clearly is desperate for attention, desperate for fame. yes, he is going to continue to carry water for trump in the worst way. he's expanding that over window for trump so it becomes more and more acceptable for the presumptive republican nominee to say more and more extreme things. he's not a serious person. the most important thing is that we keep calling out these egregious things he is saying. >> i will note that donald trump said that vivek won that first -- congresswoman edwards, this week, we saw texas supreme court haunting a ruling which would allow a president -- president -- it would allow her to have a restriction of --

her to have a restrictiohuge winning issue for democrats recently in the battleground state of ohio and in the kentucky governor's race should democrats continue to beat the drum on this critical issue. >> absolutely. democrat should continue to hammer away at the extreme of policies that are promoted by both abortion candidates on the campaign trail but also for house members and senate candidates. these guys are off the rails when it comes to abortion rights. republicans are way outside of the mainstream. this is a winning issue for democrats and they should stay on it. >> house republicans are going to introduce a resolution on

thursday. they introduced a resolution on thursday to authorize an inquiry into president joe biden. the house rules committee is to take it up on tuesday in a couple of days. the earliest that any vote could happen is wednesday. do you think this move will backfire for republicans going into 2024? >> i think it will backfire. frankly, this is just a political reality of an impeachment inquiry in an election year. impeachment inquiries into an incumbent president tend to cause base voters to rally around the incumbent president. this is a ridiculous impeachment inquiry that is baseless from we can tell. we have a recent history for this. in 2020, in the impeachment inquiries leading up to it all of 2019 and 2020 leading up to the republican primary in 2020 and the presidential election, that warmed republican voters to trump. when democratic base voters,

including those who voted for biden last cycle, when they see the action that the house is taking, it may be another wake up call to say, hey, you might now feel so psyched about what is going on but you're not going to be psyched about what these guys are doing. i think it will absolutely backfire on the republican party. they have a very core base of maga right now. they are trying to thread the needle of keeping the maga wackos happy. it's going to be a challenge. i see this working out politically positively for biden even though it's unfortunate for our democracy. >> congresswoman, i want to stay on this topic for just a second with you. i get the impression with especially the baseless, and i want to emphasize that adjective, the baseless impeachment inquiry being joined by the gop, that it's kind of eliminating the power of the concept of impeachment. we saw the two impeachments for donald trump. we're now seeing them try to use this for joe biden. is it just something that has

been weaponized at this point and doesn't have teeth? >> at least republicans have turned impeachment into a political weapon. here is the thing -- with the two impeachment of donald trump, they are clearly was a set of evidence. the first one, it came on the heels of the mueller report. the second one came from election interference and fooling around with the election after january 6th. look, i think that republicans are making a huge mistake here. i think it is as lucy said. it's going to backfire on them. it will galvanize democrats, even democrats who aren't as enthusiastic. more than that, i think that voters are going to say, let's return democrats to power in this chaos of what impeachment -- one political attack against

another. i just don't really see how republicans believe that this particular impeachment process is going to work in their favor. it has no basis. >> lucy caldwell, former congresswoman donna edwards, thank you so much for being here. i always enjoy seeing you guys. thank you. coming up next, deal or no deal? what fulton county d.a. fani willis is signaling for donald trump and some of the other defendants charged in the election interference case out of georgia. we are going to have exclusive reporting from hugo lowell coming up next. stay with us. you are watching the katie phang show. you are watching the katie phang show phang show ons. this life is in our blood. give the gift of family heritage with ancestry. (husband) ♪ hey there family! while you're shopping, ♪ ♪ get me a 5g phone, it's on my list. ♪ (wife) instead of doing all of this a better plan is to switch to verizon. (avo) this holiday turn any samsung phone, in any condition, into a galaxy s23+ on us. and now add netflix and max to your plan for just $10 a month. only on verizon. my dry eye's made me a burning, stinging, 5-times-a-day,...

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out of fulton county, georgia, signaling the potential for a blockbuster trial. top senior trump officials are included on the prosecution's 200% witness list. among those names, former attorney general bill barr who trump called a coward during an

event last night, steve bannon, who trump called the greatest bs or last night as well, and former vice president mike pence who we all know that trump said to hang. in exclusive new reporting by my next guest, previously unreported emails suggest the prosecution is dropping obvious hints at its endgame for some of the defendants in the georgia r.i.c.o. case while communicating with the -- we have a long road ahead. look after these folks are in jail, we will still be practicing law. the operative word there is jail. joining me now is to go low, political investigations reporter at the guardian. it's so good to have you here. let's start with your exclusive reporting about those emails. that's dicey energy going on between fani willis. kudos to her for standing up to a complete flip of attorneys, but to her point, and this dovetails with your exclusive reporting no plea deals for the

top lieutenant to donald trump. >> i think it was a particularly aggressive email chain. i think the defense counsel was presumptive. i think it gives you an idea of what endgame the d.a.'s office is envisioning. they tend to take it to trial. they intend for intendants to not be given plead eels and see it all the way through to the end. we had previously reported that trump and rudy giuliani and mark meadows were among the people who the d.a.'s office was not interested in pursuing plead eels with. if you think about that and the latest email in which we are saying, those are the candidates we expect to send a jail. >> the next logical question, you and i following the case in fulton county, very detailed.

our viewers have been waiting for this trial date from scott mcafee. do you think the fact that she has announced no plea deals for trump, meadows, and giuliani would actually help inform the decision as to when a child it gets set? >> we have heard privately that scott mcafee has been told that he should maybe delay setting trial dates or schedules because we might be getting more ponytails. this was a month or so ago. there are a lot of moving parts in terms of the potential trial date. the other thing that was interesting is we do have a proposed trial date. >> august 2024. >> we want the plea deal to end in july. that gives them a lot of time to secure additional witnesses who might want to flip and cooperate. >> let's shift gears and talk about the fact that tomorrow is going to be the last witness on behalf of the defense and the new york civil fraud case being prosecuted by the attorney general letitia james. that star witness is donald

trump, maybe a star only in his own mind, that a limited gag order from justice and warren having then put back into place. my theory is, the gag order itself does not prevent donald trump from testifying, it just prevents him from saying horrible, violent, nasty stuff about justice engoron's staff. do you think donald trump is going to testify tomorrow? >> i think we should expect him to testify tomorrow. i don't know how long it will be. when he previously testified when he was being questioned by the new york a.g.'s team, it was a lot of, we were going to build on these properties anyway. that's why we had these values. that's not standard accounting practice, as you know. i think that was a specious arguments. he also had a lot of attacks for the judge and attacks on the case while he was on the stand. i think it's going to be interesting tomorrow. if he does testify, he will be precluded from saying anything that goes towards the judge,

the court staff, the scene he wanted to do. he will have to be much more restraint. >> i want to bring to our viewers attention the following. last, night you were at a new york young republicans event that donald trump was in attendance at. i think this is a classic example of how the lines in trump legal world get blurred between political campaigning. who else was there that you saw? >> alina harbor, one of the lead attorneys in the civil fraud case. we had trump's -- >> some say he is quarterbacking all things legal. >> that's a way to see it. i see it as a general manager who coordinates all the legal teams. he basically bridges the gap between the legal team who are finding court briefs and trump's inner circle. he has a foot in both camps. in that way, he bridges that

divide. it has been a feature of trump world for the last two years to have a legal team that is increasingly intertwined with his campaign team. i think a lot of people inside trump world say the reason that he wanted to run in the first place is because he thought it would insulate him from all of these criminal cases. we've seen that be true. whether it's the classified documents case where he is saying he was president and therefore he should see different filings, whether it's in the january 6th case where he is running for president as an excuse to try to push the trial laid out, i think it's a feature that we will see going forward. >> i will leave with the following -- trump said the following -- all capone, the greatest gangster, only got indicted once, but trump has been indicted four times.

as we, know hugo, al capone was convicted and went to prison for tax evasion and not for some of the other offenses. maybe trump will go to prison for times over if he wants to be better than al capone. hugo lowell from the guardian, thanks for being here. still to come, supreme subpoenas -- the latest on the senate efforts to force conservative activists and deep pocketed megadonor's to testify in an ongoing -- macy hirono and how she is convincing republican colleagues to make that happen. don't go anywhere. you are watching msnbc. don't go anywhere. you are watching msnbc you are watching msnbc jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? her credit's golden. hello new apartment. three jens getting ahead with chase. solutions that grow with you. one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. (husband) ♪ hey there family! while you're shopping, ♪ chase. ♪ get me a 5g phone, it's on my list. ♪

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conservative circles are being subpoenaed to capitol hill to explain their questionable ties to supreme court justices all as a part of a sweeping ethics probe. the senate judiciary committee last month authorized subpoenas or republican megadonor harlan crow and conservative activist leonard leo. crow and leo are pushing back, of course. they are not the only ones. ndsey graham called the subpoenas a vote a joke. the ethics investigation is looking to get to the bottom of recent reporting detailing justices clarence thomas and samuel alito takinglavish trips on donors dimes and accepting previously undisclosed gifts. the supreme court last month adopted what it is calling an ethics code but failed to disclose how those new rules would be enforced and by whom.

joining me now is democratic senator mazie hirono, amanda moore of the senate judiciary committee. as i mentioned -- thank you. you and your democratic colleagues on the senate judiciary committee faced a significant obstacle of harlan crow and leonard leo refusing to comply with your subpoenas. how are you going to convince him republicans to vote to enforce the subpoenas if the republicans on your committee won't even participate in the vote. >> so far, they have been totally obstructing in terms of requesting or requiring the supreme court to follow a code that every other judge has to follow. what are they trying to hide? i would also say, look at how the american public regards to the supreme court. they don't think very highly of the supreme court. there are efforts to impose a required code of ethics. as you know, i think after a lot of emphasis in pushing by

the democrats on the judiciary committee and others, they finally said, well, here is our code. there is no enforcement mechanism. there is very little in terms of what they would be choosing themselves which is another huge concern regarding the supreme court. >> senator, another important issue which was raised this past week on wednesday, republicans in the senate voted to block an emergency spending bill which would have provided 110 billion dollars to raine, israel, and for other security measures. republicans are demanding more on immigration and on the southern border. if russia continues unchecked, how dangerous does that become for us in the united states? >> it is at a time where we should be providing support, bipartisan support for ukraine and israel. if we don't do our jobs, republicans want to try to extract something relating to

our borders and our policies there in a permanent way, they will think far, far less of the united states. this is yet another time when the republicans have decided that they are going to extract concessions from democrats to make major changes. for example, our asylum provisions, immigration reform is something being tackled ten years ago. we did it before. if we can operate in good faith, we can make those kind of changes that we were able to do ten years ago. on calling for comprehensive immigration reform. we should not combine the aid that we -- combining that by extracting concessions, basically taking

immigrants hostage in what should be a straightforward bipartisan support for ukraine. >> president biden hit a new important milestone frequently. the senate confirmed his 150th federal judge. according to the pew research center analysis of statistics from the federal judicial center, nearly two thirds or 60% have been women. that same share in racial or ethnic minorities, more than any other president ever. senator, what does that mean to you as a woman of color serving on the senate judiciary committee to see such a milestone reached? >> all i can say is that it's historic and about time. as the only immigrant serving on the united states senate, believe me, diversity and supporting people with different backgrounds is critically important. it's not some kind of, as an immigrant, it means a lot to me that we have a president that

supports the diversity. they can get objective and fair justice. >> thank you for joining us today and happy holidays. >> same to you. everyone stay safe, we kind. >> thank you. coming up next, the murdaugh murders -- inside the new tell-all book behind the story that gripped the nation. could we see a retrial based on alex murdaugh's claims of jury tampering? don't go anywhere. claims of jury tampering? don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. the subway series is taking your favorite to the next level! like the #20. the elite chicken and bacon ranch. built with rotisserie-style chicken and double cheese. i love what i'm seeing here. that's some well-coached chicken. you done, peyton? the subway series just keeps gettin' better. when you're ready to begin treatment for chronic lymphocytic leukemia, calquence helps you do the fighting.

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since house south carolina attorney double murdaugh was convicted of double murder. the 55-year-old attorney from a prominent legal dynasty is now serving two consecutive life sentences for murdering his wife and younger son at their home in 2021. investigators say his 52-year-old wife maggie was shot 4 to 5 times with a rifle and his 22 year old son paul was killed from two shotgun blows. prosecutors alleged the slayings were too -- to cover up millions of dollars of missing money from his law firm. murdaugh now has a 27 year prison sentence tacked on to his time behind bars after he pled guilty to a dozen financial crimes. my next guest gives us a much closer look at this true crime

story in her new tell-all. joining me now is mandy mack, the creator of the murdaugh murders podcast and the author of blood on their hands, murder, corruption and the fall of the murdaugh dynasty. mandy, i was so excited to have you on the show. you have a popular podcast and i think we actually lost mandy. i think we are working on getting her back, hopefully. nope, i don't think we do. we're going to go to a commercial and hopefully get her back on the other side of this commercial. we will see you guys in a minute. rcial. we will see you guys in minute minute let me get the big one. nope. -this one? -nope. -this one? -yes. no. what? the big one. they're all the same size. wait! lemme get 'em all. i'm gonna get 'em all! earn big with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. theo's nose was cause for alarm, so dad brought puffs plus lotion to save it from harm.

puffs has 50% more lotion and brings soothing relief. don't get burned by winter nose. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. america's #1 lotion tissue. mandy, live tv tech detect this: living with hiv, i learned that i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. gremlins, no worries, we got you back. i want tota with this. you have an amazingly popular podcast. your book is out. you have reported on this story from day one, not all in the news room. why is this story is so compelling? >> well, it is complex. i think people love complexity. i think that it just involves everything that people can relate to. i think there are a lot of people in small towns across america who have families like

the murdaugh family who have controlled the justice system, not to the extent that they controlled the justice system, but i think that a lot of people can relate to the feeling of helplessness that the people of hampton felt for a very long time with the murdaugh group called over the justice system in the 14th circuit. >> mandy, one of the deadly incidents connected to the murdaugh family that was overlooked until a netflix documentary and docuseries and others like who touched on it is this puzzling death of stephen smith, a classmate of buster. you write in your book, quote, a 19-year-old kid with a bright future turned up dead with his face bashed in on a rural road in an area where there were just a handle of murders that year. the local newspaper wrote about it only a onetime. what is the latest in that investigation into the death of stephen smith? >> as you said earlier, we have

a lot of chaos going on in the murdaugh trial with his appeal and an attempt to get a new trial. all the focus has unfortunately been on alex most of this year. the financial crimes have finally been put to rest, thankfully, and we are hoping that sled, the media, everyone else is going to put their focus on stephen and 2024 and find out what happened. i said that in my book. local media barely wrote about it. i say this all of the time on my podcast. there are two systems of justice in the united states. there's one system for the people like the murdaugh family and another system for people like steven smith's family. unfortunately, steven smith's family does not have a lot of power. they don't have a lot of money. the media did not care about his death. they did not care about his death before it was wrapped up into this murdaugh chaos. that's heartbreaking and

terrible. it is going to be my focus next year to rededicate as many sources and it is possible and find out who murdered is stephen and who covered it up. >> mandy, a couple minutes ago, it shocked about a retrial. he said there was jury tampering. can you let us know what the status of that claim is? >> sure. we are waiting for a hearing in that claim. it should be in the next month or so. they are saying that clerk of court becky hale tampered with the jury so that she could get a book deal, which is an insane thing. there is no evidence that i have seen that anyone has seen of actual jury tampering. none of the jurors who interviewed with sleigh and ever said that becky hill influenced their decision of guilt. this is another tactic that alex murdaugh and his team of defense attorneys are using to

abuse the system. it's extremely unfortunate and very frustrating. >> i have less than a minute left. i wanted to ask you, mandy, we did talk about the grip, the stronghold that the murdaugh dynasty has been in south carolina. how important was the prosecution of someone like alex murdaugh, the outcome of his trial, and this guilty plea we just talked about to show that justice can truly be applied to anyone regardless of wealth or power. >> extremely important, katie. i'm glad you brought that up. i think that is something that is often overlooked in mainstream media. for years, after the murders and for a long time, a lot of people in hampton and call it in county and in my area truly believes that alex murdaugh killed his wife and son. they said over and over, there is no way a murdaugh will ever be convicted of murder in the county because of their power

here. seeing not only, i was shocked just to see him be charged with murder, but to get him convicted was a huge deal. it meant a new day for justice here in south carolina. we are now back into this chaotic realm where there could be a possibility of that going away and the justice system going backwards again if a new trial happens. that would be extremely unfortunate. >> mandy matney, you have to come back. we have to stay on that steven smith investigation. we have to make sure the blood on their hands, please go out and get it. that's mandy matney's new book. i appreciate you being here. thanks to all of you for joining me this morning. i'll be back here next weekend saturday on sunday at 8 am eastern. he pup with us during the week by following us on instagram, tiktok, and ex. stay tuned. don't go anywhere. the sunday show with jonathan capehart, my friend, this

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johnson, move on what really happened on january 6th.