well, we have a pretty big show coming up tomorrow night. i'm really looking forward to sitting down with former republican congresswoman, liz cheney. we will talk about her new book, we'll talk about donald trump's recent comments about wanting to be a dictator on day one. we know it's longer than that. we'll talk about how democrats and republicans like her can make sure he doesn't land a second term. the former president is also set to take the stand tomorrow in manhattan's civil fraud trial. former u.s. attorney for the southern district will also join me to recap this day in court. as the defense prepares to rest its case. that's all coming up tomorrow night at eight pm eastern. for now, stay right where you are. there is much more news coming up here on msnbc. >> it's happening.

by this time tomorrow, donald trump will have retaken the stand at his new york civil fraud case. how big a gamble it is this far into the trial? plus, about last night, something happened that is raising questions about donald trump blurring political and legal lines. a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we're begin with breaking news. a tornado and some devastation in tennessee. at least six people are dead, including two children after severe storms tore across the south. those powerful tornadoes ignited fire, snapping power lines, and destroying homes. at least two dozen people have been injured, and power is slowly being restored to thousands of customers. the threat is not over as the same system is moving east. today, millions in the southeast and mid-atlantic face more severe weather. torrential rain, and heavy winds definitely expected. flooding is likely.

some places will get snow, and others, tornadoes cannot be ruled out. let's go to msnbc melissa parra who's joining us in the hard-hit neighborhood of madison there in nashville. welcome. what does it look like there? >> yeah, i mean, you can see behind me, this is not spit lane, by the, way for anyone who's been following. you know that this is one of the hardest hit areas just outside of nashville. behind me, this is just a series of homes. this extends on the other side of the camera, by the, way as well. what you can see, i want to photographer to zoom in on that one house. this is something that we're seeing all day today. people on their second floor, and they don't have a rough above them. they are just sifting through whatever they can salvage. several rooftops on the street alone have been completely ripped off. we've heard some harrowing stories, including one woman who was buried underneath the debris from everything on the roof that had collapsed on top of her. we'll have her story later

tonight. we just interviewed her and her fiancée. so many homeowners here talking about how lucky they feel because they're alive. unfortunately, alex, it was just down the street that three of the six fatalities were right here. it was just down the street, a mobile home park. and adults band was inside of a mobile home that rolled over outside, on top of another residents. that had a mother and two-year-old child inside. when you hear these stories, you see the images of the tornado itself. the striking and terrifying. this happened as it was dark, so there were several people who did not see this coming. you see the video, not just of debris, but you see the fires that were ignited, even some explosions. it's not just here where we are in madison tennessee, it was also clarksville. those were where we also saw some heavy, heavy damage as well as the other three fatalities of the six. i want to take you to a very emotional moment with the mayor of clarksville that happens not

too long ago. take a listen. >> our priority is to take care of our people. we know that we have people who are suffering because of loss of life. and injuries. and loss of property, miss mary golden mentioned, we took a tour this morning of the affected neighborhoods, and there is devastation everywhere. but one thing i love about the city, when there is a need, we rally around that need. we have neighbor helping neighbor. i can tell you that there is one little girl, her name is ali. she was seven years old. when we pulled up, despite her house being affected, she's saying all they want for christmas for the crowd that was out there. >> so you can see the storm is long past, but the cleanup really just beginning as people are taking away whatever they can salvage here. we know the salvation army is here, the red cross is here. even outside of here, alex, tens of thousands remain without power. again, lots of people here just grateful to have their lives right now. >> yeah, it's awful. especially at night time. this tornado struck it, night

it's absolutely terrifying. thank, you melissa, for that. donald, trump is set to retake the stand in new york as his defense team's final witness in the 250 million dollar civil fraud trial. this, time his legal team will be questioning him about allegations he fraudulently inflated his assets. even though his own attorney advised him against appearing. >> don't forget though. he is going out on monday with the judges gag order still in place, so he can't speak about certain things, he has to be so careful. that is so unconstitutional in my opinion. we have first amendment rights. we have rights as attorney. 60 member writes. those are all being violated. he still wants to take the stand, even though my advice is that, at this point, you should never take the stand with the gag order. he is so firmly against what is happening in this court. >> joining me now, justice reporter, riley. he is author of sedition hunters, how january 6th broke the justice system. harry litman, former u.s. attorney and host of the talking feds podcast. right out of the gate, harry, i

want to ask you. the fact that donald trump is going to be on the stands, does that mean a gag order remains in place? if they're looking for him to tell the truth about something, shouldn't he be able to speak in whatever parlance he wants to? >> the short answer is yes. if it gets to that kind of troubled waters, you know, they will talk it over. that is the least of his worries there. let me put a marker, he says that he is testifying. he may well, but we'll see if he changes his mind. >> wait, he might not show up? >> well, he might not take the stand. there is little for him to gain. remember, there is a judge trial. the judge is going to decide against them. he will, as his son dead, give the sort of rosy infomercial for the public. that would be the reason he would testify. but, it means he will have a cross-examination. it won't be like last time when the a.g., on direct, led him

just go on and on. they call cross-examination the greatest legal tool ever invented for the discovery of truth, they can ask, in the ready to, ask very pointed questions. mr. trump, you knew this was 30,000 feet. you knew it was ten. yes or no? boom, boom, boom. the judge will enforce that. so he doesn't stand much to gain on his direct testimony, and does stand to lose on the cross. we'll see what happens. >> so if he takes the stand, ryan, i know the expectation is he is, but if he does, we all remember the first time he was called to the stand by the prosecution. it got very intense. do you expect tomorrow's testimony to be any different? >> probably a foreshock at the softer questions from his own defense team, painting that rosy picture that you are talking about. i think that is what we could expect on the direct, but when it does get to that crosses when things are going to get a little bit hairy or. it doesn't make a lot of sense

for him to, as his lawyer there even said, kind of want to get on the stands except for the reasons he wants to make this into a public spectacle, make this part of his ongoing campaign. he also needs to practice theoretically because he's got some new trials coming up ahead of him. although he has a lot at risk. it's an expensive practice to begin. using this civil trial as a practice ahead of these other ones. anyway, i would expect his lawyers would be more strongly treading take have been some did not take the stand, because we're headed into a big year for donald trump. it's less than three months that we have this trial on hearing in d.c.. this zhejiang election interference. there's a lot in front of him. >> one hunted percent. we know he was in court, ryan, on thursday. he was watching the testimony, the defense star accounting witness, eli bartos. who revealed that he was paid nearly $900,000. this is in part because of his action committee. this was for his expertise, but

right, what are we learning about these payments? >> yeah, sorry, the payment for? >> the expert witness. almost 900 grand. part of it is done by his pack. paid for. >> that's extraordinary. it sort of shows how donald trump's world is interconnected. here he is the brand that he is. he is behind us. he controls all of these various entities. we've seen that, him controlling that other criminal investigation as well. he's been paying for all of these attorneys for key witnesses. it's only when witnesses are off the books, or when they're off the payroll, that sometimes they become more valuable in the jacks mitt investigation as well. it's a really tangled web of a lot of payments that are happening all over the place for donald trump here. it can't be the main man behind all of this. >> 100%. so harry, you have the accounting expert bringing up that build by working 650 hours

on this case. does that seem a little extravagant? and could this affect his testimony in the eyes of judge engoron? >> yeah, so 100%, alex, it is admissible to go to his bias. this i would say 20 times what you would expect an expert of the sort to receive, and engoron is entitled to take that huge payday for him into account and value, in evaluating his testimony. >> okay, ryan, you mentioned this, he's also under a gag order and the d.c. election subversion case. this happened after an appeals court friday largely upheld a lower court ruling, but you, know narrowed it just a bit. what are the remaining restrictions on the former president? >> so, what he is not, what he is allowed to do is go after jack smith. that is the big headline i think after this. he can take, he can go after jack smith as much as he wants, but there are still these limitations on place.

i think that the appeals court went through a really thorough review of the way that donald trump has weaponized this public attention before. all of the, you know, cascading consequences that has four individuals sorted get swept up into this, you know, we saw that in the trial to begin with. the civil trial has been used as an example for the special counsel's office of what donald trump has the power to do, how they're going to try to protect their own investigations. donald trump is still gagged from making these more direct attacks on staffers, on the court staff here in d.c. for example. as well as going more individually after some of the individual prosecutors involved. i, mean they are worried about the consequences that this could have, because of, course we've seen time and time again, when donald trump sets a sights on someone, that his supporters are willing to do a lot to go after them. >> so there was a big gala last night, for donald trump appeared and spoke. sitting at the table with him was his attorney, lena hava. in a red dress, you'll see her

there. epstein, his legal counsel, but, harry does their frequent appearances of political events, does that blur the line between the law and politics? >> yes, in a way, but he was actually trying to tow the line in a way that you might find encouraging overall. in addition to what ryan said about open season on jack smith, they narrowed it and one other way. they said, look, we're worried about witnesses here. you cannot attack them in terms of their testimony. you can attack them sort of generally in the political sphere. you can go after mike pence, and you can go after bill barr, just not called him a liar, or disparage their testimony. so what he got up yesterday, and called trump, barr, a coward, i think that that was a advice of counsel. here's what you can do, here's what you can't do. it showed consciousness up the

d.c. circuit order. to me, it was exactly what they were letting him get away with. anything he can get away with, he certainly will. we know that. >> true. harry litman, ryan reilly, guys, thank you so much. so, it's a shock poll you may not even believe this. is it for real? what does it mean for the 2024 presidential race? that'll be later this hour. first, why democrats are saying there is no there there. even some republicans agree. we're back in 60 seconds. s agree. we're back in 60 seconds we're back in 60 seconds >> the subway series? it's the perfect menu lineup. just give us a number, we got the rest. number three? the monster. six? the boss. fifteen? titan turkey. number one? the philly. oh, yeah, you probably don't want that one. look, i'm not in charge of naming the subs. -we're done. -what about these? looks right. nooo... nooo...

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where she had this exchange with congresswoman, to phonic. >> i am asking specifically, calling for the genocide of jews, does that constitute bullying and harassment? >> if it is directed instead -- it is harassment. if the speech becomes conduct, it could be harassment, yes. >> meaning committing the act of genocide? >> magill failure for calling for an end to genocide is drawing criticism from lawmakers. >> joining me, now robert garcia, he serves on the house oversight and committee, welcome back to the broadcast, congressman. what are your thoughts on the answers of former president mcgill, and the presidents of most harvard and my teacher in the hearing this week? should the others, these other, to be offering the resignations as well? is the new republican-led house investigation, the wanted to antisemitism on college campuses, is it warranted? or is it just republicans going

after universities they deemed to be woke? >> first, i work on a college university campus for ten years before i was in congress. i was both an administrator, as well as an educator in the classroom. so it is very important to recognize that antisemitism is happening, it is actually growing on college campuses. about a group of students just a few weeks ago that are very concerned about their safety. what we have to recognize is that is true, and it's happening. of course, we have to call out antisemitism, islamophobia, any kind of hate whenever we see it. i found the answers at the university presidents, honestly, to not be acceptable answers of leaders in any institution. certainly of some of our best universities in the country. i think they should be unequivocal in calling outs, when somebody calls for genocide of jewish students, or of any group, i do not think that it should be hard, or difficult at all, to denounce that. to say that that kind of speech is hate speech, is wrong, is

not contributing to the safety of students on campus. look, i think that's obviously we've had a president that has resigned already. with that the others do, they're having to deal with their own faculty and students on that question. it is not unacceptable, is not an acceptable answer, am i pinion. >> i think your position has bipartisan support. that's what we've heard thus far. that said, on friday, the u.s. vetoed a u.n. security council resolution for an immediate cease-fire in gaza. siding with israel's claim that ending the war before hamas is destroyed would only create more conflicts. yesterday, the administration approved 100 $6 million and tank shells to supply israel. how do you perceive the administration's handling of the israeli issue so far, and is the administration putting enough pressure on israel to limit civilian deaths? >> look, i think that the president and to our secretary of state have been very clear about what's important as far as putting pressure on the way that israel conducts its military operation. i think it's been very clear

that that has been having an impact, especially in the last few weeks. i think the negotiated cease-fire that happens when they release the hostages was really important, and i hope that we can get back there. we need to remind ourselves that the cease-fire was brokered by hamas. israel does have a right to defend itself, it's very important that hamas broke not just the cease-fire part of october 7th, but also the one that was just in place. we should have seen more release those hostages. i, myself, weeks ago, i called for a lasting cease-fire in this war. i also recognize that israel has to defend itself. that has to include a release of hostages, and the ability for israel to target hamas. hamas should not be in control of the palestinian people. the palestinian people deserve to live in freedom, to have safety, to not bomb, to have humanitarian aid. i think that the administration is trying to ensure that we recognize some losses danger, while also focusing on humatarian aid, and

protecting the people on the ground. >> let's set the ammunition sail from yesterday aside, because you know that there is an intense debate amongst decratic lawmakers over whether to attach strings to military aid for israel, over concerns about protecting civilians in gaza. some democrats are demand conditions on supplemental funding for israel, beyond what exists, as it appeals to u.s. law. where do you stand on this? given the grip to the party, might threaten further support for israel? >> first, i think that this is a really important debate, the foreign aid package that we're about to hopefully debate in congress. i think something that's important, i think we obviously haven't seen in this package will look like as it relates to what any type of conditions may or may not look like. there is debate about that. the more important question is that it's actually being done and foreigners package right now. right now, republicans are focused on inserting immigration and border policy into a foreign aid package that is going to greatly harm our

billet-y to pass any kind of humanitarian support, foreign aid. it's not just about israel, it's also about ukraine. the big debate right now is why republicans are trying to force the struck kony an immigration policy around asylum seekers into this debate. that is a real issue, that congressional congress has come out strongly to oppose it. we cannot have this policy attached to the point a proposal, or there's danger that get through the house. >> this week, house speaker mike johnson plans to hold that vote formulas in an impeachment inquiry into the president. johnson says, hey, this is not a vote to actually impeach the president. it is to continue investigations. here is what your colleague, congresswoman deborah roe, has to say about this. >> there have been investigations, the republicans own witnesses. they have said that's there is no there there. so he is doing this to appeal to his extreme base again, and it's simply ignoring the

evidence, and ignoring the pressing needs around the world's, and for the american people. >> of course that was step awesome. very sorry about that. how do you expect up to play out this week? >> look, this is an extreme political stunt. there is zero evidence that links the president to any business, doings or wrongdoings. so i think that the republicans are obsessed with one thing, and that is getting donald trump reelected. they will do whatever they can, no matter how it hurts, no matter how many important initiatives they derail from the country, to get donald trump reelected. this impeachment is all about that. we know that right now, the james conrad, i serpent oversight, has brought forward a witness, a deposition, hearings, all of bush's fallen flat on their faces. we've had witnesses essentially end up being spies. we have had depositions that have actually lied about, to the public. so there is no evidence. republicans, in congress, have

said so as well. so we have bipartisan agreement here that there is no evidence to anything. i think mike johnson, the new speaker, he has no control of this caucus. and extremists like marjorie taylor greene, who is driving this impeachment inquiry, they're all going to do what they want to do to hurt the president. we'll see if the votes are there to pass it. i hope it does pass, but if it does, we'll keep exposing the lies. >> congressman robert garcia, very good to speak with. you thank you so much. a very noteworthy phone call took place between two world leaders today. what they have talked about? the clock is ticking. what is next in the case of a texas woman denied an abortion despite the danger she faces. e danger she faces into a galaxy s23+ on us. and now add netflix and max to your plan for just $10 a month. only on verizon. my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care.

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minister, benjamin netanyahu, spoke with russian president, vladimir putin. israel reports the leaders discussed a variety of topics, including iran, hostages, and the ongoing conflict with

hamas. let's go now to the reporter joining us from tel aviv. welcome to you. this is the first reported conversation between these two leaders since russia made some incredible statements about israel at the united nations. what do you know about the tone of today's call? >> well, it lasted 15 minutes. that's quite long for two leaders on a phone call who stand on such different sides of the same issues. the office of benjamin netanyahu reported that the prime minister criticize russia, certainly, for its stance at the u.n. and support of a resolution, calling for an immediate humanitarian cease-fire, and for russia's close ties for around, which, of course, israel accuses a funding hamas. as far as the kremlin is concerned, they have said that this call was about the humanitarian situation in gaza, but they countering terrorism shouldn't come at the expense of civilian life. which of course raises eyebrows

for, among observers of russia's activities in countries like syria over many years, where they assisted the regime there and bombing civilian areas. certainly in the aftermath of its invasion of ukraine. as far as the united states, the secretary of state, antony blinken, once again reiterated his message directed at israel. that more should be done to help these populations of gaza with humanitarian aid. listen to what he said on cnn this morning. >> we think there needs to be a premium plot on protecting civilians and ensuring that humanitarian assistance can get to everyone who needs it. as i said, i think the intent is there, but the results are not always manifesting themselves. these are the kinds of things we're working on every single day. again, to make sure that gap between intent and result is as narrow as possible. >> well, it is a very essential call. palestinians will tell you the

gaza strip, oxfam, for instance, the aid agency, said that desperate struggles are tearing at our social fabric. the situation is not catastrophic. oxfam is saying, it's apocalyptic. alex. >> so thank you so much for the update from tel aviv. there are some new questions today on what happens next for a texas woman whose emergency abortion was granted, then temporarily blocked an appeal by the state supreme court. her attorney says 31-year-old, kate, cox is waiting on the judicial system to lift this. >> right now, we are so focused on hoping to get a decision quickly, out of the texas supreme court, but, look, kate shouldn't have to explore options like going out to state. she should be able to get an abortion at home, with her doctor, in her home community. it is a human rights violation. >> doctors diagnose cox's fetus with the fatal diagnosis, likely to result in a

stillbirth, as well as a risk to her future fertility. joining me now, caroline kitchener, national reporter covering abortion for the washington post. welcome. when is the texas supreme court expected to make a decision? time is of the essence for kate cox, as well as her own health. >> the reality, is we have no idea when they're going to come out with their full ruling. that is what makes this case so different than all the other abortion cases that we have seen across the country. they have taken weeks and months, sometimes over a year. i cover abortion and that is what we see. it takes a really long time. this one is different. there is a ticking clock. she is 20 weeks pregnant, and there is no guarantee that we are going to get a decision here. you know, in a timely manner. >> that is beyond upsetting, but how about how they might end up ruling? is there any line on past systems that could indicate how they rule? >> i think that it's extremely

hard to say. this case is different, it's first of its kind. it has been over 50 years since we have seen an adult woman petition a court for permission to get an abortion. we just haven't seen that since before roe v. wade. i think that it's anybody's guess what's going to happen know that everybody, doctors, lawyers, women who are, you know, experiencing an expected pregnancies right, now they are watching this case to see what is going to happen. and if cox is able to get an abortion, then i think that it's fair to say that we're going to see similar cases like this. >> what are her options? her lawyer says going out of state should not be an option because of her emergency condition. already a number of trips, i think for, to the e.r.. could she even managed going out of state? >> i mean, i haven't spoken to her, but the doctors that i,

doctors and lawyers that i have talked to about this case, their best guess is that is what is going to end up happening. you know, i think that it's just impossible to say at this point. >> caroline kitchener, upsetting conversation, thank you nonetheless for your reporting. next, the reporting on how the former president would build of what's been called, loyalty first cabinets. one chilean soundbite tells us what would happen. extra when you hear that after the break. er the break. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup

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that a second trump administration will use the powers of the federal government to retaliate against his political adversaries. cash patel, a trump ally who worked and as justice department, days ago saying that if the former president is elected again, he will prosecute people and media, in court. >> one thing we learned in the trump administration in the first go around as we have to put in all american patriots top to bottom. we will go out and find the conspirators, not just government, but in the media, yes. we are going to come up to the people in the media who lied but american citizens, to help joe biden with presidential elections. we're going to come after you. whether it's criminal or civil, we'll figure it out. we're putting you on notice. >> joining me now, former fbi counterintelligence agent and author of compromised, counter intelligence and the threat of donald j trump. peter strzok, welcome. it's good to see you again.

of, course being targeted by donald trump is something that you unfortunately do know firsthand. you filed a lawsuit against the trump doj, claiming that you are wrongfully terminated from the fbi over his political vendetta against you. i do not believe you have direct interaction with kash patel, but how seriously should we be taking him. well, alex, i think that it's should be extraordinarily seriously. cash patel is a person who has already brought civil suits against the new york times, against politico, and has demonstrated that's an apparent willingness to use the court system for political retribution. we don't have to take any of these folks and what they're saying, we have to just look to their actions to see what they're willing to do. another particularly concerning thing about what he said in the comments you just play it is that the understanding that the first time around the first administration, they lost a lot of time getting partisans in place to do what trump wanted them to do. that they're prepared right now, well in advance, be --

the first administration, to put people in positions of power who are absolutely loyal to donald trump. the bottom point, is i think, from the last months of the trump administration, they now understand that not just broadly across the government, but that they absolutely have to have loyalists in positions of people who have force, or access to force, the department of defense, homeland security, the fbi. they understand the importance of having those agencies in particular, under their strong control. >> earlier today, senator j.d. vance defended what patel said. claiming that there is a history of collusion between big tech in the media. he thinks the government needs to address this. let's take a listen to what he said. >> i agree that we need to look seriously at how there was collusion between members of the press, and big technology companies, and members of national security. jake, that is not journalism. it is not journalism to take your security clearance, lied to the american people, then

persuade the big technology companies to censor anti joe biden stories. there's not journalism, that's cooperation between the government, and journalism. >> how do you respond to advance his claims? >> first, it is absolutely absurd that anyone lied. that is outright false. second, senator vance, just this past week, wrote a letter to the department of justice, demanding that washington post editorials. be investigated for these crimes, because he suggested what might happen on the reelection to trump. so first editor, vance it is rich with irony that he should be casting aspersions over very legitimate government activity, trying to push back against foreign disinformation. trying to push back against child pedophilia and other material things folks posted online that the government may become aware. of when he himself, emote in the last week, has been attempted to use his power as a senator to stifle discussion within journalistic editorials.

>> so in an interview earlier this week, not once, but twice, trump to klein to say that he was going to abuse his presidential power in a second term. he said he would, quote, only be a dictator on day one. could our institutions, peter, withstand even one day, 24 hours, of trump's abuse of power if he returns to the oval office? >> alex, i think it's going to be an extraordinary test of trump is reelected. i think people forget how close we were as a democracy to ending this experiment that we've had for hundreds of years, in the last days the trump administration. what concerns me the most of the information that has come up from people at the chief of staff, john kelly, for people like don mcgahn. pat cipollone. white house counsel's, about the huge number of times that they had to stop trump from doing things that were illegal. those folks aren't going to exist in the next trump

administration. the contrary, people will be in those positions who will function as enablers. the few guardrails that kept trump in check during the first time around, there is simply not going to be there. i think the people who will be in those positions will have been selected specifically to not provide any of those guardrails. or checks on trump's worst impulses. >> this brings to mind this question that i would like a quick response, for because trump among other threats said that he would consider pardoning the january six felons. what are the potential threats to the rule of law quite a second trump administration posts? >> i think extraordinary threats. one, the fact of the matter is that a member of these folks that have been imprisoned, they engaged in violence. they geisha violence against law enforcement, engaged in an insurrection to overturn the results of an election. there are huge number of people get to be prosecuted. there are people who are potentially testifying against trump in his own trial. so the amount of damage that he could do to the judicial process, into the legal system

of the united states, it's extraordinary. >> peter strzok, sobering, as always. thank you. we'll see you again soon. coming up next, a poll result that is going to blow your mind. doesn't matter? doesn't matter for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. woman: who's that, who is that? cole: this is my puppy! woman: cancer. it's different in a child. because your child is still growing. charlie: i had 14 rounds of chemo. there's thousands and thousands of kids all over the world who need help. girl: it is my first time having cancer. and it's the very worst. spokesman: saint jude children's research hospital works day after day to find cures and save the lives of children with cancer and other life threatening diseases. woman: it's scary to watch your kid battle and fight for their lives.

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get it for yourself or a loved one at kardia.com or amazon. when the speakers race happened, and kevin mccarthy, he's a dear friend of mine, was deposed, they came from the chair, oh, well, that is what the lord may have prepared us for. so i was starting to pray more about, that in the lord began to wake me up through this three-week process tha'rhe mdle. to speak to me. to write things down, plans, procedures, ideas of how you could pull the conference together. at the time, i assume the lord is going to choose a new moses. thank you, lord. you're going to allow me to be aaron to moses. >> house speaker, mike johnson, like in himself to a biblical prophets at a private event for

christian lawmakers. his defense came after thanked organizers for keeping journalist out this keynote speech. an indication he may not have known the event was being recorded for the group's facebook page. joining me now is john calloway, democratic strategist about of the national voter protection action fund, and susan del percio, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst. welceo you both. since becoming speaker, mike johnson has faced a lot of scrutiny for his ties to christian extremists, so have their ideologies, john, don. how do you interpret what he said there both been aaron to moses? >> well, it's biblically incorrect. there is nothing wrong with being a christian, there's nothing wrong with being a devout conservative christian. if you consider the interpretation of moses in the bible, that would actually be joe biden who is the presidents. he is the leader of this people, so to speak. aaron was the interpreter from

moses, who could not speak clearly. mike, johnson, is not even really in an aaron role. it's incorrect for him to consider himself in the moses like role. luckily for the american people, we have a joe biden, and chuck schumer who's president of the senate. the thing with the christian conservatives that liberals don't have a problem with christian conservatism. in fact, most african american democrats who vote consistently liberal are deeply christian. the problem is, when you try to impose, by law or with legislation, these christian conservative principles on everybody else. i think that's the part that the speaker doesn't quite seem to get. from a fundamentalist bible perspective, moses, joe biden would be. >> it's also usain every christian perspective, been someone heralded in the bible, as if to create yourself as been and position of leadership in that regard, that might be a little disturbing to some

questions. i'm curious, what does it tell you, susan, about how johnson views his leadership position in the house? >> you know, alex, a month ago, the guy woke up and probably was hoping to be speaker one day, so, now he wakes, up the speaker, and i guess he's aiming higher, comparing himself to moses. it is so disturbing to what don was saying, to hear that he is using his religious beliefs as governing, as a way of governance. and it is, it should be taken seriously. we live in a time where we're too often saying someone was just being, flip or pay no mind, jorts not what he really meant. it is what he really events. he is a record to prove it. so speaker johnson is not about governance, he's not about putting the united states first. it's not his oath to the constitution he puts first. it's his fate, and he's entitled to do, it but he's not entitled to be governed by it.

that is the disturbing part of the whole thing for me. >> there is this thing called separation of church and state, right? when you talk of governing and using political hierarchy, buckle coal techs to govern. that, said let's go to a new poll, it's from the wall street journal. we bring you pulls all the, time some are probably close to the truth, but this one seemed a little not realistic. it finds nikki haley leading president biden by 17 points. in a head to head matchup. that is a huge margin, don. i could list a bunch of caveats, here but on the face, about what you think this means? >> it's extremely important to list the caveats here. first of, all as we talk about a few times on this program, no democratic presidential nominee is going to see positive results until about 30 days, 60 to 30 days outside of the election. there's that. the second pieces, there was no way that that gap is that broad. generic democrat versus generic

republican does not produce that much of a gap. i don't know how the washington post got ahold of. this obviously it seems like it's deeply skewed conservative bias. but, -- >> fyi, was the wall street journal. >> they delivered what -- >> is the wall street journal. >> right, forgive me. it does show the nikki haley is the greatest threat to joe biden. she is a much bigger threat to donald trump who's on favorables and negative czar -- >> by the, way that's a pretty common concept. i hear that a lot. >> that polling -- >> no, i hear a lot that nikki haley would be the biggest threat to joe biden. >> nikki haley is the biggest threat. good for democrats, he is nowhere near winning the republican presidential nomination at the end of the day. there's just no evidence to suggest that we are 30 days outside of iowa, she is not going to win it. as of right now, donald trump is still the front runner of republicans who caught up the noises despite their faces all the time. for whatever reason, donald

trump still has the stronghold on the primary electorate of that party. >> so, i guess big picture, does this even matter? susan, trump is so far ahead, what is your reaction to this poll? >>, well it does matter, because while i agree with don that it's nowhere near 34, 51, if it ever happened, which is doubtful, that 34% is awfully close to the 37% disapproval that shows up in the biden poll. that number really, it's probably close to the bottom, his bottom, but he's been hovering at 38, 39, 40%, the president, for a while now. on a disapproval number. that is something to be deeply concerned about. the other thing is, while, you know, donald trump is certainly the front runner, showing that big gap between biden and haley, and haley looking so promising, it helps her in a narrative

that is being told. that she could be the one. that she could be the one that people look to, don't look to donald trump. it's a long shot, but that is what you look for out of these surveys. it is, again, it's a snapshot in time, but it is also providing a very important narrative. you can't dismiss this. democrats would be, i, think in the wrong for dismissing what is bad news for joe biden. that people are not excited about turning out for, him and he needs every vote he can get. >> yeah. let's switch gears to what happened this week on the hill with the university of penn president, liz mcgill. after that testimony. stepping down. she faced bipartisan criticism from lawmakers for this exchange. this one, specifically, with congresswoman elise the fonac this last week. take a look. >> i am asking specifically calling for the genocide of jews, does that constitute bullying or harassment? >> if it is directed and severe,

or pervasive, it is harassment. >> the answer is yes? >> it is a context dependent decision, congresswoman. so the university has called her comments a very unfortunate misstep. don, i'm curious what you make of all of this, the fact that it is one of the few things in the last several years have both sides seem to agree on. >> you know, i have spent the last 15 years preparing executives of all kinds for high stakes congressional hearings. higher stakes than this. these were the poorest performing, and most poor prepared witnesses i've ever seen. you cannot allow yourself to concede the moral high ground. it was very easy to answer that question affirmatively, and then provide context. it's very easy to say, yes, that's bullying and harassment. punishable by our campus. let's talk about how we want to make this campus a place that is safe for expression, for palestinian supporters, as well as for existence virtuous supporters. these witnesses, they are not antisemitic people.

what they were worriedly poorly prepared, and extremely scared. at the end of the day, you have, you football coach does not go into a game against harvard without watching film. you have to know what stefanik is going to do. you have to know what the house republican caucus intends to do by virtue of them have been called the hearing in the first place. i've never seen such poor, horrendous preparation. these presidents in the universities are paying the price. >> ten seconds to, you susan. what do you -- do you think that this will be a reckoning for universities? a lot of questions are hoping it will be. >> well, i don't think it's christians that are hoping for it to be reckoning, i think it is a, it's a reckoning because college campuses need to know that there is room for us free speech, but there is also no room for hatred and bigotry. >> i appreciate. that you know what i should've said, conservatives, not christians. that's what i meant. we have the christian thing going, there you have. that's a, wrap you guys. clearly i need to get out the sets. thank you. that is going to do it for me on this edition of alex witt

reports. i'll see you next week at noon eastern. my friend, yasmin vossoughian, continues our coverage right now. ues our coverage right now. now. >> indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire the subway series is taking your favorite to the next level! like the #20. the elite chicken and bacon ranch. built with rotisserie-style chicken and double cheese. i love what i'm seeing here. that's some well-coached chicken. you done, peyton? the subway series just keeps gettin' better.

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