that'll do it for me tonight. thanks very much for being here. ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪

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good morning, lawrence. >> we'll have two miracle workers join us tonight. senators jon tester and sherrod brown, who somehow managed to get re-elected to the senate in

states where no other democrat can win. but we begin tonight with our history lessons from professor laurence tribe, also andrew weissmann with us on this really historic night in the case of united states of america versus donald j. trump. >> looking forward to hearing that. >> the supreme court getting involved at this stage. even just to say to jack smith, we will consider what you're asking us to do. that alone is such a big deal. >> we will consider it, and we're ready to start hearing. we want your response by next week. i mean, it's happening. it's on. here we go. >> rachel, guess who was proven wrong today. that would be me. >> oh. >> as of last, i think it was thursday night, i had gotten extremely impatient with the federal appeals court process in these cases and started to get the feeling that it was going to be business as usual and donald trump was going to humiliate yet

another governing institution. that is the federal appeals process, and use them to his advantage, by them simply running on their normal schedule of who knows how long anything takes. here we are tonight in a completely different place than we were when i was complaining about what i was expecting of them. it's not like they watch this show, so they obviously were very, very ready. much more ready for this than i thought. >> listen, first of all, i absolve you. as far as i'm concerned, you've never been wrong and never will be. but i also think you had consider to be complaining. it took the d.c. circuit court 11 months and 25 days to rule on this civil liability thing. that pace, that's slow even for them, even for the normal course of events. i think there was reason to be upset there. as i said, you've never been wrong, nor will you ever be wrong. >> okay, that's the promo for this show. just cut it right now.

it's a five-second promo. they can afford it. >> thanks, laurence. >> thanks, rachel. well, breaking news. welcome to 1974. this is what living through high-speed history feels like. 50 years ago, a republican president of the united states was under investigation in the federal courts in washington, d.c., responding accordingly and appropriately. the courts worked faster than we had ever seen them work before. the breaking news of tonight is that the united states supreme court took only five hours this afternoon to decide to fast track special prosecutor jack smith's request that the supreme court intervene now and decide donald trump's appeal in the case of the united states of america versus donald j. trump. donald trump appealed a decision by the trial court judge, tanya chutkan, in which judge chutkan

denied donald trump's claim of complete immunity from criminal charges for any conduct during his time as president of the united states and his claim that he was immune from prosecution in the january 6th case because donald trump's lawyers say that that would be double jeopardy, because donald trump already was subjected to an impeachment trial in the united states senate on essentially the same. last week, this seemed business as usual in the federal court system with the united states court of appeals in washington, d.c., having jurisdiction over the trump appeal, with an unlimited amount of time to consider that appeal. as i complained on this program last week, the appeals court could take a year to decide an appeal like that if they wanted to. after the appeals court decision came down, the losing side was surely going to appeal to the united states supreme court, which could then take, who

knows, another year? jack smith decided not to play that game. at 12:30 p.m. today, jack smith filed a petition directly to the united states supreme court, asking the supreme court to use its power to reach down and take this case off of the appeals court docket for immediate consideration by the supreme court. at the same time, jack smith filed a backup motion with the appeals court to expedite the appeal at the appeals court level if the supreme court refuses to take the case at this stage. ♪♪ thanks for bearing with us, everybody. it is tuesday, december 12th. getting started a little bit late this morning. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. correspondent for bbc news, katty kay is with us.

former supreme allied commander of nato, four star navy admiral james stavridis. he is chief analyst for nbc news. thank you, all, for bearing with us. let's get to our top story this morning. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is here in the u.s. for the third time since russia launched its full-scale invasion in february of 2022. he'll meet with president biden at the white house to discuss his country's needs on the battlefield and the importance of america's continued support. president biden has proposed just over $60 billion in new wartime funding for ukraine as part of a national security package. but republicans say that foreign aid must be tried to additional funding and policy changes at the southern border. we'll talk more about that, willie. the top senator on each side, meanwhile, of these talks, democrat chris murphy of connecticut, republican james langford of oklahoma, cautioned

yesterday a deal involving foreign aid and border measures that would make both sides happy may not be reached by the end of this week. senator murphy has called republicans' demands in negotiations, quote, extreme and implausible. zelenskyy also expected to meet with house speaker mike johnson and to deliver remarks to a meeting of u.s. senators in addition to his white house visit. admiral, sometimes high stakes is a term that's overused, but for president zelenskyy, this is a very high stakes 24 hours here in the united states. >> it absolutely is, willie. you know, if you look at that photo we just showed of him, he looks worried. i'll tell ya, if i were the president of ukraine right now watching this unfold in d.c., i'd be worried. they've still got time. there's still plenty of armament in the pipeline for another couple of months here, but the clock is ticking. make no mistake, president zelenskyy, this is, indeed, a high-stakes move. i'm encouraged, and i'll close

on this, i'm encouraged with the fact that he's meeting with the entire senate. in the end, willie, i think the center will hold on this. boy, we are skating on thin ice. >> you contrast this with visits, say, last year, john, where standing ovations, you know, addressed to congress, and now you have some senators saying, "my schedule doesn't work. i can't be there." senators who said they're fine holding up the aid until they get a border deal, and that could push into next year for sure. >> the visit may already be a failure. there's little chance that deal is going to get struck this week. zelenskyy, of course, will apply public pressure. he'll stand next to president biden at the white house later today. the two men will told a news conference. that a deal isn't ed publicly going to get done this week. it'd take a real aboutface at the 11th hour for something to happen. if something doesn't occur in the next 24 hours, the senate and house will leave town the end of this week for the christmas recess, and it'll be early january before they can reconvene. when they come back in early

january, suddenly, the clock is also ticking on government funding and a potential shutdown. there will be a lot more things on their plate. to the admiral's point, white house officials tell me there is a presidential drawdown authority. the pentagon can stretch their resources a little, but pretty soon, within a few weeks, this is going to start showing up on the battlefield. that could make a real difference, as russia is believed to be mounting a winter offensive. >> joe, if you talk to people on capitol hill the last couple days, they think it is almost certain this will be pushed to next year, that there won't be a deal because republicans are making the aid to ukraine contingent on immigration reform. >> well, katty, also, you look what's happening in ukraine. you don't have the urgency of the russians sweeping towards kyiv. you also don't have the positive argument that zelenskyy could make that they're making up ground with russia and they're moving closer to the russian border. it is a deadlock, and you're starting to hear that from some

members in congress. >> it's interesting the headlines in europe at the moment are that putin is winning in ukraine, and that certainly wasn't the kind of headlines we were seeing after they first launched this invasion. the reality of the counteroffensive from the ukrainians, even by their own admission, is that it hasn't worked. politics are starting to creep up in ukraine, too. zelenskyy is facing more criticism internally. none of that makes his visit to the u.s. any easier. he's walked straight into an american political fight. we've been saying for a year, joe, the problem for ukraine is it's on america's political timetable. we thought that was november of 2024. it turns out to be december of 2023. this fight between, you know, progressives in the democratic party who are warning the white house not to cave, to do more on immigration funding, and those in the republican party who are saying you've got to do more on immigration funding, there's very little that zelenskyy can say while he is in washington to get around that. then there's the other war.

israel says it is prepared to fight for months or longer in order to defeat hamas. this as troops have gained control of more areas within gaza city. the israeli military believes the region is the headquarters for the leader of hamas. officials are on a mission to find and kill him. meanwhile, the humanitarian crisis in gaza is worsening. infectious diseases are ravaging residents due to overcrowding in shelters, scarce food, dirty water, and little medicine. hospitals are so overwhelmed, treating people who have been injured in air strikes. israeli officials say the amount of aid entering the strip will double once a second screening station opens. so many questions. where do we begin? >> well, there are, admiral. let's start with the humanitarian crisis there and the argument that if you give a dollar to gazans and humanitarian aid, you're helping

hamas. >> and they might use that dollar for the war or that fuel you give them. >> right. then rewind, you know, and say, well, that's what they've done for years. remind to september right before the attack, and "the new york times" is telling us that netanyahu's government was telling doha, "yeah, keep giving hamas money. keep giving them money. keep the spigot open." that was less than a month before the attack. then, you know, they knew this was coming for a year, and seven, eight hours without a reaction. i mean, a lot of things are adding up here that just show the most gross incompetence. yet, netanyahu's government, and we keep hearing, let's wait until the war is over, wait until the war -- well, you know, that doesn't really make a whole hell of a lot of sense if all of his actions over the past decade have got us to this point. >> i agree. if you add to the mix of what you just laid out, joe, the fact that many credible reports

suggest that israeli intelligence had the actual plan, the actual blueprint of this attack over a year in advance, it's strike three when you add it to funding to hamas and lack of response. i'm not an analyst of israeli politics, but i think that clock is ticking on netanyahu just as certainly as it is in a very different way on president zelenskyy. what i look for in terms of gaza at the moment, joe and mika, is the humanitarian piece of this is beginning to rise above in the concern bucket globally. i think that that will have an impact on israeli operations going forward. >> meanwhile, admiral, you have israel talking about the threat to the north with hezbollah. >> yeah. >> now, we have these commercial ships, norwegian commercial ship being fired on by the houthi rebels, iran-backed rebels from

yemen, as well. if you're looking at this battlefield and you're israel and the united states helping israel, what do you see? >> i'm worried. i'll start with hezbollah to the north. 150,000 surface-to-surface missiles. they are a creature of iran. if tehran decided to unleash that missile barrage, that's an existential threat to israel. i think if you're the israeli defense forces, you're looking north with a lot of determination. that's why two american carrier strike groups are in the region, to deter iran. then, you know, the admiral is going to mention it, thanks for bringing up the sea. these houthi rebels are for real. they're trained. they're highly capable. not only are they shooting missiles at commercial shipping, they actually took down a commercial ship about three weeks ago. 25 mariners are being held

houseage by these rebels. again, creatures of iran. let's hope u.s. deterrence alongside israeli determination can carry the day here and avoid this conflict spreading even more widely. >> katty, there's been some discontent throughout washington and grumbling within the pentagon about the biden administration not doing more, not standing up more forcefully to some of these attacks, missiles being dropped on american bases, some of the incidents in the sea we just mentioned there. the u.s., of course, their official approach is, well, we don't want to do anything to escalate potentially a more regional conflict. what are the concerns there in europe about that, that this conflict spiraling out of control as public sentiment is shifting against how the israelis are conducting their offensive in gaza? >> look, public sentiment towards gaza shifted in europe a while ago when it comes to the humanitarian crisis in the strip. i think there's some -- there

are some people here who are saying, you know, look, there is a chance here for a total remake of the middle east. you've got these gulf states and saudi arabia who have been meeting to talk about the future of the area and that they are so invested in their relationship with israel at the moment, they really want that to succeed, that they will try to do something. that depends on what joe was saying earlier, on netanyahu going and on new leadership for the palestinians. i think it also depends on whether in the gaza strip you have now created generations of people who have such anger towards israel that all they're going to want to do is become terrorists themselves. there are a lot of ifs there, but there is, you know, the potential, i think here, and people are talking about it, and i know they're talking about it in the middle east, for some kind of remake after this is all over. but, wow, i mean, it's complicated. those attacks against americans, so far, iran doesn't seem to want to get involved in this,

but it's the kind of mistake that, you know, if the houthis really do attack americans, it's that kind of a mistake that could lead to this widening. >> admiral stavridis, let me ask you a question we've been asking for over a month now and we don't get any answers. we certainly don't get any answers from israeli leaders, from military leaders, from intel leaders. we don't get answers from supporters of israel when they come on this show. i'm just curious if you've heard any explanation at all. if there is a school shooting in america, three minutes later, police are arriving. ten minutes later, they've shut down the whole community. >> lockdown. >> school is on lockdown in four, five minutes. four, five minutes. when 9/11 happened, first responders got there three minutes later. three minutes later. you know where i'm going, but we have to go there. i need an answer. you need an answer. >> what's your best guess? >> if you're spending billions and billions of dollars

defending the israelis, i want to know, and i'm sure you want to know, and the families of the hostages want to know, how in the world is it possible that a government that bases its very existence on security would allow people to be raped and murdered and abused and -- >> dragged away. >> -- kidnapped and dragged away over seven, eight hours, and not respond for seven or eight hours? what -- what is -- there is no good explanation. what is the best one you've heard? >> i have heard zero explanation of that. what i have seen is finger pointing, starting with the prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, who began with blaming the intelligence services for failure, the idf for not showing up. look, there's a lot of failure to go around.

you are correct, 9/11 was our intelligence failure, but our responses on that day were profound. i was in the pentagon. i actually glimpsed the aircraft as it hit the building a few hundred feet off to my right-hand side. the next thing i remember, clouds of billowing smoke, and here come the first responders. why that did not happen immediately in israel in terms of military first responders is something the most senior leaders of the israeli defense forces, their intelligence services will ask themselves for the rest of their lives. how did we fail to protect our women, our children, our elders, our very civilization? how did we fail? >> it's just going to be left hanging like that? >> i mean, they knew. that's the thing, they knew it was going on, willie.

they knew it was going on. netanyahu knew it was going on. they did nothing. there is no good explanation, but we need an explanation. we have a right to an explanation. not as much as parents of children who were kidnapped, raped, and abused, and dragged off, but seven, eight hours? think about new york city cops on 9/11. after the gates were breached, first of all, they sit there and they have this wall, this security wall, and it's broken down. again, they get through there. about that point, nypd cops would be there. like, it'd be all over. instead, they let them run across israel for seven, eight, ten, 12, 13, 18 hours, raping women and killing grandmothers, burning little children. they do nothing. they do nothing, willie.

how? how could it be? >> i don't have the answer. apparently, no one does. we've had israeli officials just a couple days ago. we put the question to her, mika did, as well, again and again, and the answer is exactly what we've heard from prime minister netanyahu. there will be a time and a place to talk about the intelligence failure. >> yeah, right. >> they say it was a failure. we failed, but we need to root out hamas. we'll talk about it later. there's no answer. if that's the answer, that tells you what the answer is, there isn't one. >> but -- >> there were idf soldiers killed that day. there were people bravely fighting, but when you have people hiding in closets for 24 hours in some cases waiting torre saved, there's got to be a better answer than, "we'll talk about it that on another day." >> that's all they do, mika. there is an intelligence failure, and then there is a response to a rag tag group of terrorists. >> i mean -- >> by the way, netanyahu had been funding weeks, up until weeks before the attack. >> right. and terrorists that the israeli

government will tell you live and breathe 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, to kill jews. >> what did they give them? >> money. >> hundreds of millions of dollars. >> this is a question. admiral, when you don't have an answer to a question, when there is no answer to a question, it'd be if a light was falling in slow motion right on top of willie's head there next to you, and you saw it. and you sat there. is that a mistake on your part, or what is it? >> it's complacency. it's avoiding the hard conversations. it's absolutely time to begin unpackaging what happened. i disagree with prime minister netanyahu, that they can't begin now to answer those questions.

and they have to. because in a couple of months, they're going to need to step back from gaza at some point and recreate a security border around it. having watched this one fail so egregiously. final point, i think a lot of israelis realize part of this, joe and mika, was their own internal divisions, their own fights inside their society, the constitutional crisis. all of this lands on the head of benjamin netanyahu. >> retired admiral james stavridis, thank you very much for being on this morning. we so appreciate it. >> thanks, admiral. still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump is now claiming that he was only joking about being a dictator on the first day of a possible second term. but our next guest says everybody should be taking his rhetoric seriously. plus, expert legal analysis on jack smith's petition to the supreme court in the federal election interference case.

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man, what a beautiful sunrise over new york city at 6:34 on a tuesday morning. florida governor ron desantis responded on social media yesterday to something president trump said over the weekend. on saturday, trump claimed in 2016, a military general praised trump for his bravery, for his decision to debate hillary clinton shortly after the "access hollywood" tape was released. a classic "sir" story from the former president. >> we were doing really well, but this one particular event came up. i said, "ya know, if we get out, it's historic." i went onto that stage just a few days later, and a general,

who is a fantastic general, actually, said to me, "sir, i've been on the battlefield. men have gone down on my left and on my right. i stood on hills where soldiers were killed. but i believe the bravest thing i've ever seen was the night you went onto that stage with hillary clinton after what happened." >> in response to those comments, desantis, a military veteran, accused trump of, quote, denigrating military service. he added, debating isn't brave. it is the bare minimum any candidate should do. hiding from debates, on the other hand, is an example of cowardice. end quote from governor desantis. joining us now, "vanity fair's" molly jong-fast. a classic trump "sir story." anyone he respects or anyone in power calls him "sir," he can morph it into a story. hasn't been to the debates yet, but says a general, three star,

called him brave for showing up in 2016. >> if i were ron desantis, i wouldn't be bringing up debates. he kind of got his lunch handed to him by gavin newsom. >> at least he was there. >> yeah. >> the debate stage in 2016, hirajima, moments we'll all remember. what it means for the primary is nothing. desantis, anytime he's taken a quick hit at trump, he backs off a day later. none of the attacks stick and none make a difference in the polls. good for desantis for saying what was true, donald trump was grossly offensive with his comments and denigrated military service, but it's not going to change the trajectory of the race at all. finally, desantis is changing tactics, when it looks like nikki haley has the momentum as the anti-trump contender. she's still 30, 40 points down.

>> iowa, of course, is where desantis put all his eggs, and he's down in the polling. molly, you piece is "donald trump's dictator promise is no joke." quote, over the past week, donald trump promised to be a dictor on who different occasions. say,hat's not a completely unexpected sentence to write, given he and his allies have not been shy in planning an authoritarian sond term. using the department of justice to target political enemies. x news host sean hannity, who first blamed the media for focusing on a scary second-term agen, asked, under no circumstances, you are promising america tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody? trump responded, quote, except for day one, end quote. we find ourselves, molly writes, at a precipice, with trump making his autocratic tendencies crystal clear. the news media needs to take him literally as well as seriously, especially as his impulses

affected the rest of the party. puicans have purged those in their ranks who have decided with democracy over trump, like liz cheney, who is sounding the alarms, while elevating an election denier like mike johnson to speaker of the house. it is time to warn voters the stakes of the election, one of which whether there will still be a democratic election. something we've been focused on here on this show, "the atlantic" had its pieces saying, this is what a second term would look like, and i do think most people understand that in 2016, he couldn't do all the things he was claiming he was going to do. he was just being brash, being donald trump from "the apprentice," and they liked he was going to shake things up. now, he's on the record claiming it'll be worse. from his own lips, he is promising it will be worse. >> he has institutional backing now, right? the heritage foundation are saying they're going to fire all government employees. not all government employees, but they're going to try to remake the government in ways

that we hadn't even sort of dreamed of. the thing i'm struck by, it feels like the mainstream media is addicted to giving trump the benefit of the doubt, right? we saw in 2016 that a lot of this stuff he wanted to do, the autocratic stuff, he couldn't do because he wasn't able to, right? he didn't understand how government worked. this time, he's taken four years off and he's really got allies that are very smart and know how government works. you see his plans. i mean, the stuff they are saying already, this is the stuff they're advertising, really scary. imagine what they're not advertising. >> katty, we're already seeing, once again, some of trump's allies cushion what he is saying, "oh, he didn't mean it like that." we had that from former speaker mccarthy over the weekend, suggesting that, you know, trump wouldn't actually follow through on this. new speaker mike johnson yesterday was asked about this and said that he did not believe trump would be a dictator. of course, we wouldn't participate in that.

we've seen time and again that republicans do embolden him. why would any of us think it'd be any different next time around if trump were to take office again, free of having to face voters again, and also completely unchecked, where he could say, i've been impeached twice, indicted on 91 counts, and, yet, i still won. >> we know there is a history of trump supporters saying that we tend to take things that he says too seriously and it was just a joke. you know, where is the sense of humor of his critics? actually, when you have conversations, and i know you do, john, as well, president trump campaign, and i've had several, when you ask them what a trump second term would be like, they're pretty clear about it. i mean, they do want to radically change, for example, the department of justice. perhaps one of the most important bastions in terms of guarding the rule of law of any democracy. they want to bring that much more into the purview of the white house. they want to secretory bugs

-- seek retribution for those in the democratic and republican party who they believe attacked the president. they want to take action against members of the press who they say have been too critical. look at hungary and viktor orban. you see echoes of that, and they're pretty frank about it. molly, when you talk to the trump campaign and they're honest about what they want to do and are pretty clear about it, and you hear members of the republican party saying, "well, we shouldn't take any of that seriously," where is the disconnect there? because the trump campaign is pretty clear about what they want to do. >> yeah. i don't understand how they're still getting the benefit of the doubt when it's so clear what they want to do. they're advertising it. i mean, it's very strange. look, traditional, mainstream, straight media wants to normalize things. they don't want to look like they're being hysterical, right? the worst thing, especially when you're a straight news reporter

opposed to being on the opinion side, you don't want to look like you're being partisan or overreacting or, you know, being too much about your own point of view. clearly, we need to be focused on the restoration and the continuation of democracy. that is not a partisan issue. >> mika, to hear people like kevin mccarthy and speaker mike johnson sort of wave away these questions we talk about every day on this show, "oh, he's not really going to try to be an authoritarian," he already did. he tried to overturn the 2020 election. how did he do it? with the help of the very people who are claiming, "oh, he'd never do that." so his friends already, in many ways, are in place. if he loses the 2024 election, you better believe that speaker mike johnson, a constitutional lawyer who helped push the overturning of the 2020 election, will be back at it again. >> i mean, there are facts now to prove that his jokes and his intonations and his touching on things end up being 100% true.

it's worth believing him when he is joking or making crazy statements. we want to get to the latest now about the woman at the center of the latest abortion battle out of texas. she has left the state for the procedure after days of judicial whiplash. kate cox, a 31-year-old mother of two, sought an abortion after being told her 21 week pregnancy was non-viable and her health was in danger. the fetus had a condition that would likely result in stillbir according to the cleveland clinic. her doctors warned her, had she continued with the pregnancy, it could be jeopardized her health and also her future fertility. because of this, cox sought an abortion through the texas courts and was granted one on thursday. however, texas attorney general ken paxton, who has no medical

education, fought the ruling in the texas supreme court, he argued that cox did not meet the requirements for an emergency abortion, and that the judge was not medically qualified to make the determination. in addition, he threatened to sue any medical professional who was involved in providing cox with the procedure. as a result, the texas supreme court found cox's situation was not enough for an exception and put her stay on the lower court's ruling. again, molly, making this woman carry the baby to term so if, if it survived the birth, it then would die, grasping for air in front of her, the mental anguish this woman has been put through is enough to put her in a deep depression, to make her extremely anxious, impacting the rest of her family, let alone the physical trauma that she was

going through, going to the er up to four times, elevated vital signs, leaking fluid. i mean, i'm sorry, i'm not a doctor, but these are just facts that i am sure 60-year-old white male, far right wing trumper ken paxton did not consider or didn't, even worse, didn't care about as he fought this, for whatever clicks he wants to get or support on the far right. this is not where america is. an abortion, what he is teaching most americans as this story gets amplified and as this woman has to run away from the state of texas to get the health care she needs, what this is teaching america is what america already, most of it, knows, that apportion is not just some lazy woman who had sex by mistake, like ken paxton had sex by mistake with someone and got someone pregnant and now needs to get rid of it. that's, like, crazy.

this is health care. >> yeah. >> these are doctors saying, "unfortunately, we have to make this very difficult decision because we need to save the life of the mother, and the life of this fetus is not viable." >> yeah. >> so, once again, in texas, far-right republicans are showing americans just how sick and cruel they can be to women when they are seeking life-saving health care. if i were a woman in the state of texas, i'd be afraid. >> yeah. >> i'd be literally afraid to lose my health care and my rights. >> and i would add that kate cox proved to us that these exemptions are not true, right? we saw a woman having a baby, you know, 99% chance of a miscarriage or death right after birth, and the state said no, right? this is the life of the mother. she has been in and out of the hospital, and the state is saying, "well, prove to us

you're really going to die." i mean, so i think what i -- >> what? >> -- think is so important about this case is it really proves that these exemptions are not true. these bans that were built with exemptions, they're not really available. >> mika, as kate herself says, you know, she's fortunate enough to be able to afford to travel out of state. she has a support network that can help her, though, of course, they are now scared that the law could come after them in texas. >> right. >> i mean, this is the absurdity of her situation. even her husband faces some kind of legal retribution if he helps her get an abortion that she needs. this is health care. i mean, in kate's case, she wants a big family. she said she wants a big family. she wants this child. this is a health care situation. her health will be at risk. as molly was saying, you know, republicans you speak to have said, "well, you know, there are exemptions. this should never happen.

we shouldn't have cases like this." but we have a case like this, and it is going all the way to the top, you know, of the legal structure in texas. it won't be the only one. this won't be the only one. we know it's not the only one, of a woman who needs this health care. it's basic health care to keep her health and safe. >> consequences of trump. "vanity fair's" molly jong-fast, thank you so much for being on this morning. we'll see you again very soon. coming up, jack smith is asking the supreme court to get involved in the federal election interference case against donald trump. we'll explain how a ruling from the high court could impact the case. "morning joe" is coming right back. we're going through the loss of a child. there's no outcome here that i take home my healthy baby girl, you know? so it's hard, you know. i think forcing me to continue

the pregnancy, the pain and suffering, put me through the risks of continuing the pregnancy, the risk of childbirth again, especially given how my last two went, i think it's cruel. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ coming from where i come from, i've learned that what makes a better life is having economic freedom and economic options. my name is darren, i'm the founder of justair, a green technology company. everyone deserves a liveable wage,

access to clean air, access to clean water. joe biden and kamala harris are investing in our community. these policies are helping to support small businesses like mine, allowing us to really grow and create jobs. we have a president that actually just cares about the work and cares about doing stuff that helps everyday people. i'm joe biden and i approve this message. hi, i'm tali and i lost 85 pounds on golo. (upbeat music) i started golo because i was unhealthy due to my weight. the minute i started taking the golo release, i knew it was working. i was not hungry, and i did not have any cravings. since losing weight with golo, i'm healthier now than i've ever been, and my doctor is thrilled. golo is so much more than weight loss, it's gonna give you your life back.

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i'm here to thank you. special counsel jack smith asked the supreme court to step in immediately to decide whether former president trump has immunity from prosecution for hisctions in trying to overturn the 2020 election results. in a filing with the high court yesterday, smith stated it is, quote, of imperative public importance that the court decide the questions of trump's trial to move forward as scheduled in march. under the timeline proposed by smith, the court could hear arguments and issue a ruling in a matter of weeks if it does, in fact, decide to step in. a brief order issued hours after smith's filing, the court asked trump's legal team to respond by december 20th. the trump campaign accused smith of attempting to interfere in

the 2024 election. joining us now, former u.s. attorney and an msnbc contributor, barbara mcquade. and state authority for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg. good morning to you both. barbara, what do you read into this request from jack smith? is he trying to short-circuit the argument that might come from the trump defense team here? >> yes. this is a really interesting strategy. i have to say, i didn't see it coming, but it is a really shrewd move on the part of jack smith. he is trying to leapfrog the court of appeals. if this were to play out in the normal course, there could be a delay of many months, which would jeopardize the march 4th trial date. what jack smith is essentially saying is, look, we all know this is the kind of question that's going to the supreme court anyway. there's no need to waste our time going to the court of appeals. it's a rare move, willie, but it is not unprecedented. it's happened 49 times in the last 100 years. it's happened 25 times in the past five years. usually, it's more cases with urgency, like covid cases or

gerrymandering cases, but it's also been used for student loans. when time is of the essence, this is a move that makes a lot of sense. >> dave, it's not unprecedented, and it seems timeliness is an issue here, but what's your read on the request? also, how do you think the supreme court will rule? >> well, as a positive development yesterday, the court granted the expedited review of the request. that tells me that they're in line with thinking that this is a special, urgent consideration. they know the stakes here. jack smith was right to go to the supreme court. the district court of appeal, the district of columbia court of appeal, they took their time, taking weeks to determine the gag order issue. if they took weeks on that, imagine how long they'd take on this. donald trump is complaining jack smith is going to the supreme court? you'd think he'd want that to determine whether or not he has presidential immunity. that's because it was never about immunity. it was always about delays. >> we should also note that, of course, the supreme court had ruled against trump during some of the 2020 election cases,

except for clarence thomas. we know, of course, his wife has been outed as being prominently involved in efforts to help overturn that election. there will be calls for clarence thomas to recuse himself. see any scenario where that would happen? >> he has no shame. he'll stay on the court. he'll help decide these issues. but he is one of nine, and it's been shown that even the justices that donald trump appointed, the three justices out of nine have ruled consistently again sagainst him issues like his taxes, for example, document productionment . i think, in the end, the supreme court will do the right thing. i may look like a pollyanna, but i think they understand the moment we're in. >> barbara, the thinking with all of these cases against donald trump is that, in the one we're talking about, everything around the 2020 election, january 6th, the federal case, is the one that probably could go forward before the election. is there anything you've seen lately, anything with this request here that tells you it, too, could be pushed down the road a bit?

>> it is possible. if the court were to deny this request, that'd mean the court of appeals has to hear it, and that could take many months. there are also all kinds of other things that could happen, willie. a case takes on a life of its own and gets organic. there are other motions yet to be filed. donald trump filed motions for selective prosecution and vindictive prosecution. again, i don't think those are going anywhere. there is a double jeopardy case that's already been ruled upon by the district court. that one could go on appeal. there are a number of things that could slow down a case, but one thing i think does seem certain, jack smith seems very focused on keeping this on track. so far, the district court judge, tanya chutkan, seems to be moving with appropriate speed to make sure that that date sticks, as well. i would say it looks good, but it is never a certainty. >> we will see. another legal matter tied to the 2020 election, former trump lawyer rudy giuliani is on trial

to determine how much he will have to pay in restitution for defaming two black election workers after the 2020 presidential race. lawyers for former election workers ruby freeman and shaye moss yesterday provided thousands of examples of harassment and racial slurs thrown at them. the threatening messages came after giuliani parroted false conspiracy theories, that the pair was tampering with ballots in thelo georgia race. they were not. on at lne occasion, giuliani reportedly directed trump sups t freeman's home. "the washington post" reports the u.s. district court judge, beryla. howell, instructed jurors she found giuliani liable for more than a dozen defamatory statements, and they have to determine the damages that freeman and moss received. giuliani's lawyer focused his statement on the yet to be determined settlement. he stressed it'd be, quote, the end of mr. giuliani if freeman and moss were awarded the millions of dollars they're

seeking. giuliani is doubling down. speaking to reporters after court yesterday, he insisted now, though he didn't previously, his claims about the two were true. >> whatever happened to them, which is -- it is unfortunate if others overreacted, but everything i said about them is true. >> do you regret what you did to -- >> of course i don't regret it. i told the truth. >> "of course i don't regret it. i told the truth." dave, help me out. now, they're in the damages portion of this, but in the trial he said, "yes, i said things that were not true." he said it on the record. we've told the story a million times but it is worth repeating, he made up the story, said there was a video showing freeman and moss exchanging what he suggested could be viles of drugs. we'll put that matter to the side, the racial element of it. it was a breath mint being passed back and forth. they endured people showing up at their house, pushing through

the front door. they had to move. they've been threatened online. what is he doing now, claiming he was telling the truth when, previously, he said he made it all up? >> he is doubling down, it is bizarre and repulsive. when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. he is buying a bigger shovel. i think he knows that he is going to lose. he's already lost the case, but now it's about damages. he thinks that, look, you can't get blood from a stone. he is broke. he probably thinks that i'm not going to have to pay it because i don't have it. but his reputation continues to be hurt every day. i mean, when you think he can go no lower, the bottom falls through. >> but, dave, what about, like, e. jean carroll? can they sue again? >> yes. mika, every time he makes a defamatory statement, he's subject to be sued. unlike donald trump, who still has assets, rudy giuliani really is dead broke. he even has an irs lien on his property in palm beach. i think he is counting the fact

that they're going to chase his money for years, but he is going to evade it. they're not going to get any. whatever money he has squirrelled away, he thinks he has impunity to say what he wants. that's why i think he'll take the stand. i think he'll go on his diatribe, narrative, hoping it pleases the boss, donald trump. >> this is clearly desperation. he had to convince donald trump to hold a fundraiser for him at mar-a-lago to raise money for his legal defense. is that all this is, a desperate man trying to save some money? >> i think so. but i don't think it is going to matter to the court. i think after hearing all this testimony, the court is going to do two things. one is award compensatory damages. that's when they want to hear about all the things that have happened to shaye moss and ruby freeman, their pain and suffering, their lost wages, all of the compensation that they are due. but the other thing i think the court will do, especially if rudy giuliani continues to double down, is award punitive damages. that's extra money designed to punish the person for doing

something that's so wrong. it is important to award punitive damages as a deterrent for him and other people who might think this is how we do business in america. even if the money isn't collectible and they chase him the rest of his life, it is important to see a big dollar sign awarded against rudy giuliani for what he did to these women. >> barbara mcquade, dave aronberg, thank you, both. it is two minutes past the top of the hour. our top story this hour, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is here in the u.s. for the third time since russia launched its full-scale invasion in february 2022. he'll meet with president biden at the white house to discuss his country's needs on the battlefield and the importance of america's continued support. president biden has proposed just over 0 billion in new wartime funding for ukraine as part of a national security package. but republicans say that foreign aid must be tied to additional

funding and policy changes at the southern border. joining us from moscow, nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons. keir, how is this new visit from zelenskyy playing in russia? >> mika, this is an absolutely pivotal week in the ukraine and russia story. president zelenskyy's trip to washington is vital in the ways that you laid out. vital in his efforts to persuade the u.s. to continue to fund ukraine's military efforts. th, later in the week, in europe, the europeans will decide whether to proceed with a session for ukraine to the european union, despite the objections of viktor orban in hungary. an important week for zelenskyy and also for president putin, who this week will hold, for the first time in years, a question and answer session with

journalists, the russian public. combining that with traditional radio phone meeting he's held, you'll remember it, that news conference that goes on for hour after hour, he'll do that again on thursday. what we heard from his spokesman, dimitri peskov, today, is that the russian government is watching events there in washington very closely. trying to argue it doesn't matter whether the u.s. would fund ukraine, or at least it doesn't matter in the sense, he says, he's been briefing journalists, that it won't -- it'd just be bad money after good money, if you'd like. that's russia's argument. we also heard from our own peter alexander today, a briefing from the national security council, talking about that russia continues to push an offensive since october. the national security council spokesperson saying it's lost russia 13,000 troops and

suggesting that russia's max maximist aims remain, to try to take all of ukraine. i think that's interesting. i think there's going to be a question this week about what we hear from president putin. whether the kremlin is watching events in israel and gaza, watching events there in washington, whether the kremlin is wondering whether the mood is changing, if you'd like, whether it is going to try to reach for some kind of a freeze in this conflict, some kind of an agreement, if you'd like,hat the territory held by both sides should remain the same. now, the issue is, of course, clearly, president zelenskyy is unlikely to accept that. i think what you're going to hear from president zelenskyy during his trip there in washington is that, in the end, you can't trust russia. in the end, russia's aims are going to continue to try to put pressure on ukraine in terms of

territory and that that is why the u.s. should continue to support ukraine financially. >> keir, zelenskyy's visit, of course, comes as vladimir putin announcing he will seek another term and run for re-election on march 17th. putting that in votes. that comes as one of his opposition rivals, imprisoned activist alexei navalny, has reportedly been moved out of the penal colony where he was serving, according to his supporters, who say his whereabouts are unknown. what more can you tell us about alexei navalny? >> reporter: yeah, it's a mystery. not clear what's happened and why. he was supposed to be present for a court hearing today. he wasn't there. his name has been removed from the list of prisoners at the prison where he's being held. his spokesperson saying that he's now been missing for seven

days. there is some suggestion that he had some kind of an illness at some recent stage, but it may also be, and i'm speculating, but everybody is, it may also be that he is being, you know, kind of moved out of the spotlight for this crucial week, particularly as we prepare for president putin to take on this hours' long question and answer session later in the week. listen, it's completely feasible that navalny will just reappear at some stage and he'll have been moved from one prison to another, but it is a mystery right now. >> keir simmons reporting from moscow, thank you very much. willie? jonathan lemire, with president zelenskyy in washington right now, going door to door, reminding members of congress, of course the president, he needs the united states. without the united states, they lose the war. there is talk, as we were speaking with admiral stavridis a little earlier, the counteroffensive did not go as planned. it did not work. they didn't push into new

territory. perhaps a rethinking of strategy as they think about how much money to give. >> first, we should note, as questions persist about navalny's whereabouts, the u.s. had an offer rejected by the russians to free evan gershkovich and paul whelan, americans being held in russia. ukrainians haven't made way in territory, and russians are digging in. already, there are questions about how long the allies would be able to support this effort, how many pressure would they then put on kyiv to head to the negotiating table? zelenskyy said he doesn't want to do that. he wants to fight to reclaim all of the territory. u.s. officials say it's unrealistic. they're not getting it all back. zelenskyy arrives in washington now to try to convince congress to open up the pursestrings again for ukraine. it seems unlikely to happen, at least this week. senators from both sides of the aisle signalled openly they

don't think a deal can get done because of what republicans want, connecting it to border security. this probably pushes to the new year, gets that much more complicated because there's going to be debate in congress about keeping the government open with the spending bill. this will only get harder. we heard president biden since the first day of the invasion say the u.s. will stand with ukraine as long as it takes. now, through no fault of this president, that's really being tested. it does seem that if the u.s. is not able to supply aid and aid soon, it'll have disastrous consequences for ukraine on the battlefield and may prompt other european allies to question their support. if the u.s. isn't supporting, why should we? >> zelenskyy said president putin cannot win the war, and he needs congress' backing. the republican-controlled us is expected to vote tomorrow to formalize its impeachment inquiry into president biden. that's according to two sources familiar with the matter. the resolution to authorize the probe set to go before the

republican-led house rules committee today. let's bring in former msnbc host chris matthews. msnbc contributor mike barnicle. former policy director for the 2012 mitt romney presidential campaign and romney's chief policy adviser, lanhee chen. katty kay is also with us this hour. let's start with the impeachment inquiry, something used sparingly and now seems to be a political tool back and forth between the parties. >> this is a huge political week. apart from all the geopolitical questions about the world and how the world is operating, our country is in a real political squeeze. joe biden, as he faces this joke of an impeachment effort by the house republicans, he has to decide, how does he work with the hispanic groups to get something done on the border? zelenskyy comes today and says, "can you do something on the border? you've united europe and nato

against the russians. can't you do something on your border to help this along a bit?" all the republicans seem to want is something where we squeeze the definition of an asylum seeker so it's actually an accurate one. can't you do something? i think he's got a real threat here. i think the russians are trying to decide between a freeze proposition with the ukrainians and actually going back to war with them, which it looks like they'll have to do because zelenskyy wants to fight. all these questions are up in the air. the europeans, the united states, and especially joe biden, he's got to make a move here. if he can't win the war with ukraine, what's his justification to continuing in office except for protecting us from trump? he has to continue that fight. this is the week the senate could go off. just walk away and say, we're not going to continue to fight. next year, we see this situation deteriorating to a desperate situation in ukraine because the senate is not even operating. it's up to the president to move the ball, i think. i think it's a big question for him politically, can he move the

hispanic groups and say, "we've got to tighten up the definition of asylum," because joe biden has said the average person in the northeast, in pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, doesn't distinguish between asylum seekers and people who simply come to this country for a better life. that's how they look at them. they're crossing the border illegally. they come to america for a better life. he has to do something about limiting that number to an acceptable number. on this impeachment thing, it's a joke. it's ridiculous. they should make every member of the republican house say, "what reason do you have to impeach this guy? what evidence do you have to bring to the table? why are you doing this, except you don't like hunter biden? he's already facing prosecution. what's your beef with the president?" >> yeah. >> mike barnicle, when you look at everything the president has before him, turning the corner into the holidays, almost certain if you talk to people on capitol hill that this funding deal for ukraine is not going to get done here in the next couple of days.

we'll have to kick the can down the road to january. how is the president feeling about everything before him? by the way, as he approaches the presidential campaign against donald trump. >> you know, we're sitting around this table, the four of us. we lead fairly normal lives in the united states of america. if you're the president of the united states, you don't want to get out of bed in the morning, i mean, given the weight he's carrying. the impeachment process that chris is eluding to, unfortunately, sadly in this country, there's a huge percentage of the voting population who think impeachment on both sides is now normal. it's part of politics. oh, they impeached our guy. we'll try to impeach this guy. what it does is really disturbing. it twists people's view of politics in america to the point where everybody seems so cynical each and every day. nothing gets done. nothing ever gets done because they're all tied up, back and forth, and it's a sad state of

affairs when you consider the fact that the united states of america has zelenskyy in town, in washington, d.c., today, basically saying, you know, we're the last stop for russia on the way into europe. we are the last stop, the ukraine border is the last stop. please help us stop russia. it's not going to happen. they're not going to get the money. >> not this week it'd appear. if koit it comes down the road,l probably be less than what ukraine wanted. think what will happen if we fail on europe, saying, we'll be part of the arsenal to defend you. at home, if impeachment is becoming this political matter, that speaks so poorly of us, as well, but also could really, in the day-to-day, really feels like it could backfire on republicans, could it not? this is something they're focusing on, an impeachment of the president's son, as opposed

to the things that matter day in and day out, including keeping government open next year and supporting our allies. >> look, dysfunction here in the united states, in our government, our inability to get things done, that's something people around the world see. when i travel around the world, that's something you hear all the time. why can't the united states function the way we expect the united states to function, as an effective democracy, with three branches of government, and all the things you learn in school? why does it not appear to work that way? i think with respect to republicans in congress, the two issues they need to be focused on are the economy and immigration. those are the issues as they go into next year's election where they probably have some form of high ground. i think the challenge for the biden administration continues to be on those two issues. for the president, i think it works in his advantage just to do something, to chris' point. immigration is one of the issues. you know, he goes out there, is able to find some solution, in some ways, that takes care of an issue that has been a vexing issue for this white house and a vexing issue for the president's

re-election campaign. it seems to me it is a fairly easy political calculus for the president here. i get there is internal pressure within constituencies, within the democratic party. the end of the day, we're heading toward a general election. this is the opportunity for the president to address an issue that a lot of people perceive as a weakness of his. >> so let's take a loot some of the newest polling which is showing that some recent endorsements have done little to move the needle in iowa's upcoming republican caucuses. in the latest nbc news/"des moines register" poll, 50% say it doesn't matter ron desantis was recently endorsed by the state's own republican governor, rim reynolds. more than 70% say it doesn't matter that desantis is being backed by a key evangelical lead i the state. or that former u.n. ambassador nikki haley has the endorsement

of the conservative koch political network. chris matthews, what do you think of that? i'd like to add the overall challenge for president biden is, you know, you see these poll numbers come out, and i think democrats get nervous, legitimately. you feel like the numbers should be farther apart. i think also, especially on the issue of abortion, when you see cases like the one in texas playing out, doesn't that spell out for busy voters who may have a lot on their plates and they're not tuning in right now, but isn't a case like that something that makes you stop and think? >> it sure does. i mean, i've long thought roe v. wade was not perfect, but it worked. >> no. >> a lot of people said -- >> yes. >> -- it's not right with my moral framework. of course that's the case. it was a compromise. but it did segment people into the three trimesters, and it did protect life and it did do something in terms of society's

concern. this new thing of just everybody for himself, and this crazy lieutenant governor down there, what is it, special prosecutor down there in texas, paxton is all over the place, acting like he is god. it is ridiculous. but i think what's going on, i looked at "the wall street journal" poll, pretty clearly this weekend, and it's interesting. we thought, who is going to vote for trump this time that didn't vote for him last time? i heard that a million times in the liberal bubble. they'll never vote for him. 95% will vote for him who voted for him last time. biden is 20 points below. he is nowhere near the bake in the cake, cultist attitude the republicans have toward maga. they don't think about other candidates. they might like nikki haley and say she puts on a good show in the debates. they might like her style, her brain, but, you know, they don't change. that's what's amazing. these people are not changing their minds. >> right. >> they are in the cult. they're with this guy in maga.

there's no intellectual aspect to it. there's no, well, i disagree with him on that, i didn't like how he behaved, or what is he talking about, being an authoritarian the first day? they don't care. they're for trump. that's the crazy thing about the primaries. a month from now, iowa caucuses. so what? what's going to happen? probably desantis will get 20% or something. maybe nikki haley gets 19%. what difference does it make? the other guy got them all, the rest of it. >> lanhee, if you look at what a lot of these candidates were banking on, which they've said privately and some now publicly, is that his legal problems, for donald trump, would help them. voters would finally look at him in a courtroom and say, i can't do it again. actually, the opposite is true, as we see in the latest poll out of iowa. none of the conventional things that used to matter in politics apply to donald trump. that is to say, governor reynolds of iowa, evangelical groups endorsing other

candidates, it doesn't matter. >> the rules have changed. what we know is a lot of the factors that would have been huge, endorsement of the sitting governor of the state, i mean, as you say, that would have been huge. i think that the reality here is, for donald trump, it's not just that he wins, it'll be the margin he wins by. the expectation is that he needs to win by a significant margin. if he doesn't, then it becomes an interesting question. let's say he wins by eight points and not 20. if he wins by 20, it is what it is. if he wins by a smaller margin, then it becomes potentially more interesting as we set up toward new hampshire, set up toward south carolina. i'm not saying it'll change the outcome. i'm just saying that it changes the dynamic a little bit, in a way i don't think people expected. >> you mentioned immigration and the economy and the question the white house asks itself, looking at the data, the numbers of unemployment being low, gdp is up, gas prices is coming down, inflation is ticking down a little bit, why people feel the way they do about this economy.

>> yeah, it's a vexing problem, i think, for the white house, because the economic measures do suggest an economy that, on many measures, is doing well. i think it is how people feel about the economy. one thing to point out is that there are more americans since the start of the pandemic who are working multiple jobs. what that tells us is that a lot of americans are having to work very hard to make it work. inflation has tamed. there's no question about that. the problem is, the $5 loaf of bread is not going back to $4 or $3. the fact that it is $5.02 opposed to $5.10. the challenge s how do you message around that? it's better than it was, but the realities for many americans, it is a difficult, daily, economic condition. even if the labor market numbers are good, growth is good, we're seeing suggestions that the economy is -- we'll have the soft landing people talked about, but, you know, the challenge is, how do people feel? i think people feel economically a little bit of anxiety still. >> katty, lanhee pointed out an

obvious fact, it's how people feel about the economy. yet, there's also a subplot there. how people feel about the country itself. i think a lot of people feel that the united states, a lot of americans feel the country is just so dysfunctional right now that they can't get a handle on where do we go next? by next, by their future, i mean a month from now, six months from now. not down the road. i'm wondering what the feeling is. is there a similar feeling about the united states now enveloping european thought about the united states? >> i think that's been there for a while, honestly, mike, the feeling you can't quite trust america. you know, people were looking to the next election and the conversation here, i mean, i went through a few years where people didn't ask me every time i came to europe, "what about donald trump?" it was kind of nice to talk about something else. but i'm back here now, and the

first conversation that everybody has, the first question i'm asked is, "is donald trump going to be re-elected?" that's kind of, you know, casual day-to-day conversations, but those are also the conversations that are being asked in governments all around europe. they honestly don't have an answer as to how they'd deal with that. everybody expects that america will pull out of nato, that funding for ukraine would stop, that russia would win in ukraine and potentially take over ukraine and other countries, as well, could feel vulnerable. there's uncertainty around america every time the debt ceiling is broached. there's still not another game in town. people look to china and don't want china to be the world's only superpower. there is a feeling they'd like america to be more functional, to work better as a government, to be more reliable as a partner and an ally, but they know that they can't count on that at the moment. >> chris matthews, this may --

i'm sure it's naive on my part, but the -- if trump wins the primary by a wide margin, is there going to be any regret among the primary opponents for not fully going after him, except for chris christie? i mean, there's so much material. you think of john mccain at that moment with that voter, when he said, "no, he is a good man." when they were trying to say something incorrect. >> a great moment. >> a great moment. >> yeah. >> there's so many opportunities for that moment, but i guess, what, is the primary voters are not -- they can't handle that moment? >> it's a great question. i think in the short run, no. i looked at the candidates and how they're standing in the latest "wall street journal" poll this weekend, and all the three candidates on that stage, the most recent debate, in all the debates, who never questioned trump, ron desantis and nikki haley and vivek ramaswamy, all three of them have laid down, if you will, for trump. >> yes. >> they're all ahead of chris

christie. all three of them are ahead of chris. not only does trump get his 50%, roughly, of the vote, but he gets another 40% or 45% of those who lay down for him. he's running about 95% really. they're afraid of him. even now, ron desantis is thinking about '28. we all know he is thinking about '28. you can't be thinking about '24. he wants to run against, you know, gavin newsom maybe. i don't know what he is thinking about, but he wants to stay alive down in florida. he's afraid of trump. it's amazing how scaredy cats they are, to use the kids' expression. they're scaredy cats of this guy. the only one is chris christie, who i love what he does. i love having someone tell the truth. that's refreshing for a few minutes every night for a two-hour debate, and i like him. i think chris christie would have been a great reagan democrat back in the '80s. he would have been a great reagan republican. he is a classic, the kind of guy i grew up with, who my dad hung

out with. he is a good guy, but he's not with this crowd. this crowd is strange. he may pull out of the race to help nikki, but he seems like a good guy to be president. the others look like they don't have the guts to be president, really. even nikki is not showing the guts that she has to show for the future, and she has a future. >> former msnbc host chris matthews and former chief policy adviser for mitt romney's 2012 presidential campaign, lanhee chen, thank you, both very much for coming on this morning. we'll see you soon. ahead on "morning joe," national security council strategic communications spokesman john kirby will join us live from the white house to discuss president biden's meeting with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy, and the latest on the push for ukraine aid. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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31 past the as we've been discussing today, volodymyr zelenskyy is visiting washington amided conversations in congress on foreign aid. john kirby expects additional security assistance to be announced by the end of the month. john kirby joins us now. admiral, thanks for coming on. tell us about the trip, what is scheduled today. we understand he is meeting with the full senate, but what about the potential of aid actually going through? >> well, we certainly hope that's the case. we'll have to see what they're able to do up on capitol hill. you're right, mika, he is going to be meeting with some members of congress today. he'll also have a meeting with president biden in the oval

office this afternoon. the two of them will come out for a joint press conference. i think you'll definitely hear from president biden about our longstanding commitment to ukraine, his desire to continue to support ukraine, particularly as we head into these very, very critical winter months. of course, he'll be calling on congress to act on the supplemental request, to negotiate in good faith, and to compromise. >> jonathan lemire here, good morning. senators saying they do not think a deal with get done this week. they were open and frank about that. they think it'll slide to the new year. with that as the backdrop, let me ask you this, what is the drop dead date, as best you know, for when our u.s. funding will run out to ukraine? i know there's a drawdown authority left. the pentagon can move things around a little bit. is there an x date where it is, that's it, no more? >> the end of this year, jonathan, so the end of this month. we do have some funds available

to us for the next few weeks, and so i do think you will see in coming days and weeks additional security assistance, but that'll take us to the end of us. we won't have the ability after this month to replenish our shelves at d.o.d. we won't be able to replenish our own inventory for our national security purposes. we're down to a matter of a couple weeks right now. >> admiral, there is the sense that vladimir putin has been waiting for this moment, which is, the will of the, maybe not the american people, but the will of congress to break and say, "enough, it's been two years of backing ukraine. let's move on to other things." if that happens, if not enough of the money gets to ukraine, what is your sense strategically on what happens on the battlefield? >> it is difficult to predict what the battlefield will look like perfectly in january, february, or march, but run your hypothetical out to see what it looks like. if we run out of funding the end of this year, that means no more security assistance in january, february, march. in january, the ground starts to

harden. it becomes easier for the russians to go on move. they're already trying to take the offense in the east, and they're launching cruise and drone strikes against critical infrastructure inside ukraine. january, february, they'll be more able to move because the ground will be frozen, and they have every intention, they've made it clear, that they're going to go on the offense. they want to get back some of the territory the ukrainians already clawed back. we will be greatly limited in our ability to provide the ukrainians the kinds of capabiliies they'll need to thwart the russian ve artillery, air, surface to launch missiles, all those things we will be unable to provide the ukraiukrainians. it'll be harder for them to have the fight. who else will be happy about this, willie, is the pla, the people's liberation army in china. they'd like nothing more than for russia to be successful

here, pause they see russia as a useful foil against the west and the united states. >> admiral, let's stick with vladimir putin and russia. it's the holiday season. evan gershkovich, paul whelan, two americans still held captive in russia. can you give us any status report on the negotiations, the ongoing negotiations, i assume, to free those two gentlemen? >> thanks, mike. one i can tell ya, we did make a serious proposal in recent weeks for both evan and for paul, of course. that proposal was denied, rebuffed by the russians. that's unfortunate. so we are going back to the drawing board and seeing what else we can do, what other negotiations we can try to enter into with the russians, to get both gentlemen out. we're serious about trying to do that. unfortunately, we just haven't been successful. they have charged both men with espionage, mike. as you know, they put that charge and those individuals

charged with that at a higher level. it becomes even more difficult to try to find ways to get them out. it's not for lack of trying, i can promise you that. we're working on this every single day. >> admiral, i want to move to israel for a moment if i could. obviously, the reports this week about the funding to hamas supported by israel up to a month ago. then the ongoing questions about the response time on october 7th. you know, israel was very, very quick to declare israel is at war after the brutal hamas attack on the 7th. yet, the response time was an inexplicable failure like nobody can explain, how it took hours in such a small country for help to get to people who were being tortured. how important is it for joe biden and for this administration to have a full understanding, full transparency

about israel's moves and intentionality when they don't move? >> the president obviously, we're latched up very closely here with our israeli counterparts as they continue to try to go after hamas. we have every intention of trying to glean as much information from them as possible, as to what they knew, when they knew it, and how they acted or didn't act. prime minister netanyahu has called it a failure. he has said that they're going to fully investigate how that gap in intelligence occurred. i have no doubt that they'll also take a look at the military response. clearly, we're going to be interested in what they learn on that. we're also interested in making sure they know that they're going to continue to get the security assistance they need to go after hamas, which still represents a very viable threat to the israeli people. we also are going to do everything we can, as we have, even without a pause in place, mika, to get humanitarian assistance into the desperate people of gaza. those trucks are still driving in. the aid is still flowing. we're going to do everything we can to keep that the case.

>> is there trust in netanyahu's leadership? >> i think right now, mika, we're focused on making sure that he and the war cabinet know they've got the support of the american people and of this administration, as well, to make sure we're working with them, to be as cautious and deliberate as possible in their targeting. make sure we continue to get that humanitarian assistance in, and do everything we can, and we are at it hour by hour, to get another pause in place so we can get the rest of those hostages out. that's what our focus is on right now. >> national security council coordinator for strategic communications at the white house, retired rear admiral john kirby, thank you very much. >> yes, ma'am. >> see you again soon. coming up, we'll be joined by an investigative reporter for "the washington post" whose reporting is part of a new documentary on the massachusetts air national guardsman accused of leaking classified documents online. we'll be right back.

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about 15, 16 yards short, outside of field goal range. forget it. wan'dale robinson sets up the giants, as tommy devito throws a beautiful pass. the hold, the kick, the win for the giants. >> wow, touchdown, tommy devito, doing it again, leading the new york giants to a comeback victory at home last night against the green bay packers. the undrafted rookie completed all four of his passes on that final drive for 53 yards, setting up the game-winning field goal as time expired. devito now 3-1 as a starter with three consecutive wins. is an that felt lost, now the giants are playing well. still alive technically in the playoff hunt. they started the season 2-7, one game back of five teams for the final nfc wild card spot, a

group that includes the packers. devito's agent was getting a lot of attention on social media. his name is shawn stellato on the left. quote, when your nickname is tommy cutlets, it'd seem to only make sense your agent would look like he walked off the set of "the sopranos." here's the back page this morning of "the new york post." it says, "a cutlet above," doing his now famous gesture. it is a fun story. i'm a giants fan. we thought the season was over. we've been having fun for a month now with tommy devito, a kid from new jersey. grew up a couple towns away from me up in northeast jersey. he's still living with his parents, he says, because it is closer to the stadium than anywhere else he would have lived. his parents last night before the game, who you saw there kissing the agent and everything else, threw a tailgate with cutlets and baked ziti, sausage and peppers, a spread. come on, this is fun. >> it's more than fun, willie. i have to tell you, i grew up a

giants fan. on sundays, the only game we'd get on tv in new england was the new york football giants. >> gifford. >> frank gifford. i can give you the lineup. charlie, i can give you all of them. nothing can match tommy devito. in a sport that's so often so formulaic that you can predict the calls, predict the plays, this kid goes literally, seemingly, from high school to a professional quarterback, the new york football giants, and he's reinvented the excitement and flavor of chicken parm all over the northeast. god bless tommy devito. >> he was undrafted. it started as a gimmick. they didn't have anywhere else to go. two quarterbacks down. he is playing really well. he looked comfortable, really good last night. >> yes. >> keep it rolling. monday night football was a double-header. dolphins hosted the titans. this went down to the wire. the titans nearly a two-touchdown underdog, down 15 points with under three minutes to play.

titans' quarterback will levis found deandre hopkins in the end zone. tennessee went for two, got it, cutting the dolphins' lead to six. miami went three and out on the next possession. titans drive down the field again. derrick henry scored from three yards out to tie the game. extra point gives the lead to tennessee. dolphins had one more shot to win the game, but their drive ended at midfield with a sack on fourth and two. that is a bad loss for the miami dolphins in an otherwise good season. we are learning more about shohei ohtani's recor setting ten-year, $700 million deal with the los angeles dodgers. the two-way superstar reportedly agreed to an unprecedented deferral for most of that money. several outlets reporting this morning, ohtani's yearly salary will be $2 million, which will allow the team to take on more salary for other players to fill out the lineup. starting in 2034, though, the dodgers will pay him $68 million a year until 2043. that is a nice retirement plan.

sources say the deferral was ohtani's idea, which, mike, raises the question for a lot of people, are you allowed to do this? if not, why aren't other teams do it? >> they are allowed to do it according to the major league players association. they are allowed to do it. i didn't think they would be because, as you remember, i mean, years ago when there was the momentary deal of alex rodriguez going to the red sox and they were going to play around with his contract to defer money, the mlpa said, no, you can't do it, and he became a yankee, thank god. unfortunately, this will allow the dodgers to sign yamamoto, the great pitcher from japan. >> probably part of ohtani's plan. $2 million on the books instead of $7 million, freeing up money for other players like him. we'll see. ahead, we'll take a look at stories making headlines across the country, when "morning joe" comes right back.

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qatari officials are still trying to get israel and hamas back to the negotiating table in hopes of securing another hostage release deal. this as pressure is mounting on prime minister benjamin netanyahu to bring home the more than 130 people still being held hostage in gaza. but the biden administration has limited hope there will be another pause in fighting. one official tells nbc news, there has been zero progress on that front. but another source says there is a chance that could change, if all parties return to serious negotiations. joining us now, rachel goldberg, her 23-year-old israeli american

son hirsch goldberg polan was abducted by hamas terrorists while attending the super nova music festival. she just addressed the united nations in geneva to mark the 75 years since the declaration of human rights. rachel, thank you for joining us. i guess we'll begin with where you are, tell us what you told the group there. >> well, first, i sat in on this session that was a 2:45 session, which was very interesting to hear different countries' views and then i spoke afterwards, really talking about, first of all, the hostage situation that is -- our time is completely running out. we have 138 hostages still being held from various nations around

the world. five different religions. a lot of different ages and we're extremely concerned. >> yeah. tell us if there has been any word on the status of your son, any information coming your way. >> there has been no word on any of the hostages in 67 days, except for the ones who were released, you know. we know, thankfully, they're home and most of them are recovering nicely. but the ones that remain there, there is no information, there is no international aid organization that can go in and give us any word about our loved ones. >> and how are you feeling about the handling of this by the israeli government? everything from response time to their attempts to try and get these hostages and bring them home.

do you think everything that is being -- that can possibly be done is being done? >> well, look, i'm not a politician. and i'm not a military strategist. i'm a mother. and i want my only son home. and i think that we could be creative, we did it two weeks ago, we created a situation that made it so that humanitarian aid got in and hostages got out. i would love to seeing some like that happen again because we know from what we're hearing from the hostages who were released that the hostages who are still there are in really dire situations. and time is just simply running out. >> rachel, it is great to have you back on the show. we commend you again for being such a clear voice on this and strong advocate, not just for hersh, but all of the hostages being held there. i can't imagine what you're going through privately to go out publicly and do this in the way you have. i guess the question for me is what gives you now two months on, what gives you hope when you wake up in the morning, just the hope of seeing your son again, i

imagine, but are you hearing anything, are you feeling anything that is keeping you hopeful? >> you know, it is interesting you ask that. i just mentioned that last week advent started for our christian neighbors, and the first week of advent the theme is hope. and the second week of advent, which just started on sunday night, the theme is peace. and we also have the holiday of hanukkah right now, which has a real theme of finding light in darkness, and we are desperately trying to find any light, any hope, any signs of peace, any signs on the horizon of something that can make this a true miraculous season. we're terribly concerned about everyone who is there, and, you know, we pray a lot, we surround ourselves with very strong supportive people, but it is painful and horrible.

anyone can picture it. if you have children, you can picture it. if you have a mother, you can picture what i must feel like. >> rachel, it is really hard, i think, for all of us to let ourselves imagine what you're going through. i have a 23-year-old son myself and something in my brain is stopping me from thinking about it. you've mentioned before that there need to be mothers in the negotiations and there aren't any. what do you think could change if your voice was being heard in those corridors of power where this is being discussed? >> you know, it is interesting you ask that, because just to sum up the last session that was in the united nations session that i finished, the vice president of columbia just spoke about more women and mothers need to be involved because in her words, she was saying, the maternal instinct would deal with these issues differently than they have been handled before. and i've echoed similar sentiments and others have as well.

i just think, you know, we have a different way of looking at the world and i think when you have more voices, and different textures and different colors and different flavors of voices coming into a discussion, different creative insights come out. >> rachel goldberg, of course, the number 67 that you're wearing on your sweater is marking the number of days that her son and 129 others are still being held in captivity. thank you so much for coming back on the show this morning. we hope to see you soon. we hope you have better news soon. >> me too. thank you for having me. >> thank you. we're going to have more on the israel-hamas war just ahead. plus, the new developments in jack smith's prosecution of donald trump. we'll explain why the special counsel is getting the supreme court involved in the federal election interference case. we're back in 90 seconds. we're back in 90 seconds

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welcome back to "morning joe." there is a lot happening right now. a high stakes day in washington, d.c. for volodymyr zelenskyy. the ukrainian president is set to meet with president biden and the entire senate in hopes of securing critical funding to fight off russian forces. also, the latest from the middle east, israeli troops continue to hunt for the leader of hamas in southern gaza.

but the country's top officials are now signaling an escalation with another terror group. plus, special counsel jack smith, taking his prosecution of donald trump to the supreme court. with us, we have the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay is with us. and former supreme allied commander of nato four star navy admiral james stavridis, chief international analyst for nbc news. thank you, all, for bearing with us. let's get to our top story this morning. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is here in the u.s. for the third time since russia launched its full scale invasion in february of 2022. he'll meet with president biden at the white house to discuss his country's needs on the battlefield, and the importance of america's continued support. president biden proposed just over $60 billion in new war time

funding for ukraine as part of a national security package. but republicans say that foreign aid must be tied to additional funding and policy changes at the southern border. we'll talk more about that, willie. >> the top senator on each side, meanwhile, these talks, democrat chris murphy, james lankford cautioned yesterday a deal involving foreign aid and border measures that would make both sides happy may not be reached by the end of the week. senator murphy called republicans' demands in the negotiations, quote, extreme and implausible. zelenskyy also expected to meet with house speaker mike johnson and to deliver remarks to a meeting of u.s. senators in addition to his white house visit. so, admiral, sometimes high stakes is a term that is overused, but for president zelenskyy this is a very high stakes 24 hours here in the united states. >> it absolutely is, willie. if you look at that photo we just showed of him, he looks

worried. and i'll tell you if i were the president of ukraine right now, watching this unfold in d.c., i'd be worried. they still got time, there is still plenty of armament in the pipeline for another couple of months here, but the clock is ticking. make no mistake. president zelenskyy, this is indeed a high stakes move. i'm encouraged and i'll close on this, i'm encouraged with the fact that he's meeting with the entire senate. in the end, willie, i think the center will hold on this. but, boy, we are skating on thin ice. >> you contrast this with visits last year, john, where standing ovations, you know, addressed to congress, now some senators saying my schedule doesn't work, i can't be there, senators who have said they're fine holding up the aid until they get a border deal and that could push into next year for sure. >> the visit may already be a failure. there is very little chance that the deal is going to get struck this week. zelenskyy, of course, is going apply public pressure, stand

next to president biden at the white house later today, the two will hold a news conference. but senators flat out acknowledge publicly that a deal will not get done this week. it will take a real about face at the 11th hour for something to happen. if it weren't, if something doesn't occur in the next 24 hours, the senate and the house will leave town at the end of this week for the christmas recess, and it will be early january before they can reconvene. when they come back in early january, the clock is ticking on government funding and potential shutdown. there will be a lot more things on their plate, and the admiral's point, white house officials tell me there is a presidential drawdown authority, the pentagon can stretch their resources a little, but pretty soon within a few weeks this is going to start showing up on the battlefield and that can make a real difference as russia is believed to be mounting a winter offensive. >> if you talk to people on capitol hill, the last couple of days, they think it is almost certain this will get pushed into next year, that there will not be a deal because republicans are making the aid contingent on immigration

reform. >> and you look what's happening in ukraine, you don't have the urgency of the russians sweeping towards kyiv, you also don't have the positive argument that zelenskyy could make that they're making up ground with russia and they're moving closer to the russian border. it is a deadlock and you're starting to hear that from some members in congress. >> yeah, i mean, it is interesting that the headlines in europe at the moment are that putin is winning in ukraine and that certainly wasn't the kind of headlines we were seeing after they first launched this invasion. the reality of this counteroffensive from the ukrainians even by their own admission is that it hasn't worked. and politics are starting to creep up in ukraine too. zelenskyy is facing more criticism internally. none of that makes his visit to the u.s. any easier. he's walked straight into an american political fight. we have been saying for a year, joe, that the problem for ukraine is that it is on america's political timetable. we thought that was november of 2024. it turns out to be december of

2023. and this fight between, you know, progressives in the democratic party who are warning the white house not to cave, to do more on immigration funding, and those in the republican party who are saying you got to do more on immigration funding, there is very little that zelenskyy can say while he's in washington to get around them. >> and then there is the other war, israel says it is prepared to fight for months or longer in order to defeat hamas. this as troops have gained control of more areas within gaza city. the israeli military believes the region is the headquarters for the leader of hamas. officials are on a mission to find and kill him. meanwhile, the humanitarian crisis in gaza is worsening. infectious diseases are ravaging residents due to overcrowding and shelters, scarce food, dirty water and little medicine. hospitals are so overwhelmed, treating people who have been

injured in air strikes. israeli officials say the amount of aid entering the strip will double once a second screening station opens. so many questions. where do we begin? >> let's start with the humanitarian crisis there. and the argument that if you give a dollar to gazans and humanitarian aid, you're helping hamas. >> and then they might use that dollar for the war or that fuel you give them. >> and then we wind, you know, we say that's what they have done for years, then we wind to september, before the attack and "the new york times" is telling us that netanyahu's government is telling doha, yeah, keep giving hamas money, keep giving them money, keep the spigot open. that was less than a month before the attack. and then, you know, they knew this was coming for a year. and seven, eight hours without a reaction, i mean, a lot of things are adding up here that just show the most gross incompetence and yet netanyahu's

government and we keep hearing, well, let's wait until the war is over, let's wait until the -- that doesn't really make a whole hell of a lot of sense if all of his actions over the past decade have got us to this point. >> i agree. and if you add to the mix of what you just laid out, joe, the fact that many credible reports suggest that israeli intelligence had the actual plan, the actual blueprint of this attack over a year in advance, so, it's strike three when you add it to funding to hamas, and lack of response. and i'm not an analyst of israeli politics, but i think that clock is ticking on netanyahu just as certainly as it is in a very different way on president zelenskyy. what i look for in terms of gaza at the moment, joe, and mika, is the humanitarian piece of this

is beginning to rise above in the concern bucket globally. and i think that that will have an impact on israeli operations going forward. >> meanwhile, admiral, you have israel talking about the threat to the north, with hezbollah, and now we have these commercial ships, norwegian commercial ship being fired on by rebels, the houthi rebels, iran-backed rebels from yemen as well. if you're israel and the united states is helping israel, what do you see? >> i'm worried. and i'll start with the hezbollah to the north. 150,000 surface-to-surface missiles, they're a creature of iran and if tehran decided to unleash that missile barrage, that's an existential threat to israel. so, i think if you're the israeli defense forces, you're looking north with a lot of determination and that's why two american carrier strike groups

are in the region, to deter iran. and then the admiral is going to mention it, thanks for bringing up the sea, these houthi rebels are for real, trained, highly capable. not only are they shooting missiles at commercial shipping, they took down a commercial ship about three weeks ago, 25 mariners are being held hostage by these rebels. again, creatures of iran. let's hope us deterrence alongside israeli determination can carry the day here and avoid this conflict spreading even more widely. >> and, katty, there has been some discontent throughout washington and grumbling within the pentagon about the biden administration not doing more, not standing up more forcefully to some of these attacks, missiles being dropped on american bases, some of the incidents in the sea we just mentioned there. and the u.s., of course, their official approach is we don't want to do anything to escalate, potentially a more regional conflict. what are the concerns there in

europe about that, this conflict spiraling out of control, as public sentiment seems to be shifting against how the israelis are conducting their offensive in gaza. >> the public sentiment towards gaza has shifted in europe a while ago when it comes to the humanitarian crisis in the strip. i think there is some -- there is some people here who are saying, you know, look, there is a chance here for a total remake of the middle east, that you've got these gulf states and saudi arabia who have been meeting to talk about the future of the area, and that they are so invested in their relationship with israel at the moment, they really want that to succeed, they will try to do something. but that depends on what joe was saying earlier, on netanyahu going, and on new leadership for the palestinians. i think it also depends on whether in the gaza strip you have now created generations of people who have such anger towards israel that all they're going to want to do is become

terrorists themselves. there are a lot of ifs there. but there is the potential, i think here, people are talking about it, they're talking about it in the middle east, for some kind of remake after this is all over. but, wow, it is complicated and those attacks against americans, that's how so far iran doesn't seem to want to get involved in this. but it is the kind of mistake that, you know, if the houthis do attack americans, it is that kind of a mistake that could lead to this widening. >> admiral stavridis, let me ask you a question we have been asking for over a month now and we don't get any answers. we certainly don't get any answers from israeli leaders, from military leaders, from intel leaders, we don't get any answers from supporters of israel when they come on the show. and i'm just curious if you heard any explanation at all, if there is a school shooting in america, three minutes later, police are arriving. ten minutes later, they have

shut down the whole community. school is on lock down in four or five minutes. four or five minutes. when 9/11 happened, first responders got there three minutes later. three minutes later. you know where i'm going, but we have to go there. i need an answer, you need an answer -- >> what is your best guess. >> if we're spending billions and billions of dollars defending the israelis, i want to know, and i'm sure you want to know, and the families of the hostages want to know, how in the world is it possible that a government that bases its very existence on security would allow people to be raped and murdered and abused and kidnapped and dragged away, but over seven, eight hours and not respond for seven or eight hours? there is no good explanation.

what is the best one you've heard? >> i have heard zero explanation of that. what i have seen is finger pointing, starting with the prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, who began with blaming the intelligence services for failure, the idf for not showing up. look, there is a lot of failure to go around. and you are correct, 9/11 was our intelligence failure. but our responses on that day were profound. i was in the pentagon. i actually glimpsed the aircraft as it hit the building a few hundred feet off to my right-hand side. the next thing i remember, clouds of billowing smoke and here come the first responders. why that did not happen immediately in israel in terms of military first responders is something the most senior leaders of the israeli defense forces, their intelligence services, will ask themselves

for the rest of their lives. how did we fail to protect our women, our children, our elders, our very civilization? how did we fail? >> is israel just going to be left hanging like that? >> they knew. that's the thing. they knew it was going on, willie. they knew it was going on. netanyahu knew it was going on. they did nothing. it does -- there is no good explanation, but we need an explanation and we have a right to an explanation, not as much as parents of children who were kidnapped, raped and abused and dragged off, but seven, eight hours, think about new york city on 9/11. after the gates were breached, they sit there and have this wall, this security wall, and it is broken down, and, again, they

get through there. at about that point, ny pd cops would be there and it would be all over. instead, they let them run across israel for seven, eight, ten, 12, 13 hours, raping women and killing grandmothers, burning little children. they do nothing. they do nothing, willie. how could it be? >> i don't have the answer. and apparently no one does because we have had israeli officials a couple of days ago, we put the question to her, mika did as well, again and again, and the answer is exactly what we heard from prime minister netanyahu, there will be a time and a place to talk about the intelligence failure, and they say it was a failure. we failed. but we need to root out hamas, we'll talk about it later. there is no answer. if that's the answer, that tells you what the answer is, there isn't one. and there were -- there were idf soldiers killed that day, there were people bravely fighting, but when you have people hiding in closets for 24 hours in some cases, waiting to be saved,

there has got to be a better answer than we'll talk about that on another day. >> and that's all they do, mika. there is an intelligence failure, and then there is a response to a ragtag group of terrorists that, by the way, netanyahu had been funding weeks up until weeks before the attack. >> and terrorists that the israeli government will tell you live and breathe 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year to kill jews. >> what do they give them? >> money. >> hundreds of millions of dollars. >> this is the question. when you don't have an answer to a question, when there is no answer to a question, it would be if a light was falling in slow motion, right on top of willie's head there next to you. you saw it. and you sat there. is that a mistake on your part?

or what is it? >> it is complacency. it is avoiding the hard conversations. and it is absolutely time to begin unpackaging what happened. i disagree with prime minister netanyahu that they can't begin now to answer those questions. and they have to because in a couple of months, they're going to need to step back from gaza at some point, and re-create a security border around it. having watched this one fail so egregiously. and final point, i think a lot of israelis realize part of this, joe and mika, was their own internal divisions. their own fights inside their society, the constitutional crisis. all of this lands on the head of benjamin netanyahu. >> coming up, a new documentary digs into one of the biggest leaks of government secrets in american history. how more than 300 pages of

highly classified intelligence went public. that's just ahead on "morning joe." went public. that's just ahead on "morning joe. named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com

florida governor ron desantis responded on social media yesterday to something former president trump said over the weekend. on saturday, trump claimed in 2016 a military general praised trump for his bravery, for his decision to debate hillary clinton shortly after the "access hollywood" tape was released. >> we were doing really well, but this one particular event came up and i said, you know, if we get out, it is historic. i went on to that stage, just a few days later, and a general who is a fantastic general actually said to me, sir, i've been on the battlefield, men have gone down on my left and

right, i stood on hills where soldiers were killed, but i believe the bravest thing i've ever seen was the night you went on to the stage with hillary clinton after what happened. >> in response to those comments, desantis who is a military veteran, accused trump of denigrating military service adding debating isn't brave, it is the bare minimum any candidate should do, hiding from debates on the other hand is an example of cowardice, end quote, from governor desantis. joining us now, special correspondent and host of fast politics podcast, molly jong fast. he loves a sir story, he hasn't been to any of the debates yet, but says a general, three star, called him brave for showing up in 2016. >> if i were ron desantis, i would not be bringing up debates, he kind of got his lunch handed to him by gavin newsom.

>> at least he was there, yeah. >> yeah. >> iwo jima, d-day, the debate stage in st. louis, october of 2016, moments that we all will remember forever as examples of bravery. just nonsensical from donald trump. as far as what it means to the republican primary, it means exactly nothing because desantis, anytime he's taken a quick hit at trump, he backs off, a day later, none of these attacks tend to stick and none make any difference in the polls. i guess good for desantis, for saying what is true, that donald trump was grossly offensive of the comments. and did denigrate military service. but it is not going to change directory of the race at all. and if anything, shows a little panic on the desantis side, what he's finally changing tactics, when it does look like nikki haley has momentum as the anti-trump contender, but it needs to be put in quotes because she's still 30 or 40 points down. >> and iowa, where desantis put all of his eggs and he's down 30, 35 points. your new piece is entitled "donald trump's dictator promise

is no joke." you write, over the past week donald trump promised to be a dictator on two different occasions. sadly, that's not a completely unexpected sentence to write given he and his allies have not been shy about planning an authoritarian second term, from installing maga loyalists to using the department of justice to target political enemies. fox news host sean hannity, who first blamed the media for focusing on a scary second term agenda asked, under no circumstances you're promising america tonight you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody? trump responded, quote, except for day one, end quote. we find ourselves, molly writes, at a precipice with trump making his autocratic tendencies crystal clear, the news media needs to take him literally and seriously, especially as his antidemocratic impulses have infected the rest of the party. republicans have purged those in their ranks who sided with democracy over trump like liz cheney, who is now sounding the alarms while elevating an election denier like mike johnson to speaker of the house.

it is time for the media to warn voters of the stakes of this election, one of which is whether there will still be democratic elections. so, something we have been focused on for the last several weeks here on this show, the atlantic had its series of pieces saying this is what a second term would look like. i think most people understand that in 2016 he could do all the things he was claiming he was going to do being brash, being donald trump from "the apprentice," now he's got a record to run on, and now he's on the record promising it will be worse from his own lips he's promising it will be worse. >> yeah, and he has institutional backing now. he has the heritage foundation saying they're going to fire all government employees -- not all government employees, but going to try to remake the government in ways that we hadn't even sort of dreamed of. the thing i'm so struck by is it feels like the mainstream media is addicted to giving trump the benefit of the doubt.

we saw in 2016 that a lot of the stuff he wanted to do, the autocratic stuff, he just couldn't do because he wasn't able to, right? he didn't understand how government worked. this time he's taking four years off and he's really got allies that are very smart and know how government works, and you see his plans. i mean, the stuff they're saying already, this is the stuff they're advertising is really scary. so, imagine what they're not advertising. >> and katty, we're seeing once again some of trump's allies try to cushion what he's saying, oh, he didn't mean it like that, you know, we had that from former speaker mccarthy, over the weekend, suggesting that, you know, that trump wouldn't fall for this. the new speaker was asked about this and he said he did not believe trump would be a dictator. but we have seen time and time again republicans do embolden him. why would any of us think it would be any different next time around if trump were to take office again, free of having to

face voters again, and also completely unchecked where he could say, i've been impeached twice, i was indicted on 91 counts, and yet i still won? >> we know there is a history of trump supporters saying that we tend to take things he says too seriously and it was a joke and where is the sense of humor of his critics. but actually when you have conversations and i know you do, john as well, with the trump campaign and i had several, you ask them what a trump second term would be like, they're pretty clear about it. they do want to radically change, for example, the department of justice. perhaps one of most important bastions in terms of guarding the rule of law of any democracy and they want to bring that much more into the purview of the white house. they want to seek retribution against those who have -- they believe in the republican party and in the democratic party who have attacked the former president, they say, and they want to take action against members of the press who they say have been too critical.

so, all of those, you look at the model, you see echoes of all that and they're pretty frank about it. so, you know, molly, when you talk to the trump campaign and they're honest about what they want to do and pretty clear about it, and you hear members of the republican party saying, well, we're just, you know, we shouldn't take any of that seriously, where is the disconnect there? because the trump campaign is pretty clear about what they want to do. >> yeah, i don't understand how they're still getting the benefit of the doubt when it is so clear what they want to do and they're advertising it. it is just very strange. and i think, look, traditional mainstream straight media wants to normalize things, they don't want to look like they're being hysterical. especially when you're sort of a straight news reporter as opposed to being on the opinion side, you don't want to look like you're being partisan or overreacting or, you know, being -- making it too much about your own point of view,

but clearly we need to be focused on the restoration and the continuation of democracy. and that is not a partisan issue. >> coming up, we'll go live to the white house ahead of president biden's meeting today with the leader of ukraine. what president zelenskyy's trip to washington means for his fi. "morning joe" is back in a moment. s fight against russia "morning joe" is back in a moment

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it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. i'm here to thank you. we want to get to the latest now about the woman at the center of the latest abortion battle out of texas. and she has left the state for the procedure after days of judicial whiplash. kate cox, a 31-year-old mother of two, sought an abortion after being told her 21-week pregnancy was nonviable and her health was in danger. the fetus had a condition that would likely result in miscarriage or still birth, according to the cleveland

clinic. her doctors warned her had she continued with the pregnancy, it could have jeopardized her health and also her future fertility. because of this, cox sought an abortion through the texas courts. and was granted one on thursday. however, texas attorney general ken paxton, who has no medical education, fought the ruling in the texas supreme court. he argued that cox did not meet the requirements for an emergency abortion. and that the judge was not medically qualified to make the determination. in addition, he threatened to sue any medical professional who was involved in providing cox with the procedure. as a result, the texas supreme court found cox's situation was not enough for an exception and put her stay on the lower court's ruling. again, molly, making this woman carry the baby to term, so if,

if it survived the birth it then would die, gasping for air, in front of her, the mental anguish this woman has been put through is enough to put her in a deep depression, to make her extremely anxious, impacting the rest of her family, let alone the physical trauma that she was going through, going to the er, up to four times, elevated vital signs, leaking fluid, i mean, i'm sorry, i'm not a doctor, but these are just facts that i'm sure 60-year-old white male far right wing trumper ken paxton did not consider or didn't even -- even worse didn't care about as he fought this for whatever clicks he wants to get or support on the far right. this is not where america is. and, abortion, what he is teaching most americans as this story gets amplified, as this woman has to run away from the

state of texas to get the healthcare she needs, what this is teaching america is what america already, most of it knows, that abortion is not just some lazy woman who had sex by mistake, like ken paxton had sex by mistake with someone and got someone pregnant and now needs to get rid of it, that's, like, crazy. this is healthcare. these are doctors saying, unfortunately, we have to make this very difficult decision because we need to save the life of the mother and the life of this fetus is not viable. >> yeah. >> so, once again, in texas, far right republicans are showing americans just how sick and cruel they can be to women when they are seeking life saving healthcare. if i were a woman in the state of texas, i would be afraid. >> yeah. >> i would be literally afraid to lose my healthcare and my

rights. >> and i would add that kate cox proved to us that these exemptions are not true, right? we saw a woman having a baby, you know, 99% chance of a miscarriage or death right after birth, and the state said no, right? this is the life of the mother, right? she has had -- been in and out of the hospital and the state is saying, well, prove to us that you're really going to die. i mean, so i think that what i think is so important about this case is that it really proves that these exceptions are not true. that these bans that were built with exceptions, they're not really exceptions, they're not really available. >> and, mika, as kate says, she is fortunate enough to be able to afford to travel out of state, she has a support network that can help her, though, of course, they are now scared that the law could come after them in texas. this is the absurdity of her situation, even her husband faces some kind of legal

retribution if he helps her get an abortion that she needs. this is healthcare. in kate's case, she wants a big family, she said she wants a big family. she wants this child. this is a healthcare situation, her health will be at risk and as molly was saying, republicans you speak to have said, well, you know, there are exceptions, this should never happen, we shouldn't have cases like this, but we have a case like this and it is going all the way to the top, you know, of the legal structure in texas. and it won't be the only one. this won't be the only one. we know it is not the only one of a woman who needs this healthcare. it is basic healthcare. >> coming up, live reporting from the middle east. israel is pushing deeper into the gaza strip and with big questions about what comes next. nbc's richard engel has the very latest when "morning joe" comes right back. latest when "morning joe" comes right back

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special counsel jack smith has asked the supreme court to step in immediately to decide whether former president trump has immunity from prosecution for his actions in trying to overturn the 2020 election results. in a filing with the high court yesterday, smith stated it is imperative public importance the court decide the questions so trump's trial can move forward as scheduled in march. under the timeline proposed by smith, the court could hear arguments and issue a ruling in a matter of weeks if it does in fact decide to step in. in a brief order issued just hours after smith's filing, the court asked trump's legal team to respond by december 20th. trump campaign issued a statement accusing smith of attempting to interfere in the 2024 election. joining us now, former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor barbara mcquaid and state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aaronburg. good morning to you both. barbara, i'll start with you, what do you read into this

request from jack smith? is he trying to short circuit the argument that might come from the trump defense team here? >> yes, this is a really interesting strategy. i have to say i didn't see it coming, but it is a really shrewd move on the part of jack smith. he's trying to leapfrog the court of appeals because if this case were to play out in the normal course, there could be a delay of many months, which would jeopardize that march 4th trial date. and so, what jack smith is essentially saying here is, look, we all know that this is the kind of question that is going to the supreme court anyway. so, there is no need to waste our time going to the court of appeals. it is a rare move, willie, but not unprecedented. it happened 49 times in the last 100 years and it happened 25 times in the past five years. usually it is for cases with some urgency like covid cases or gerrymandering cases, but also used for student loans and so when time is of the essence, this is a move that makes a lot of sense. >> so, it is not unprecedented and it seems certainly timeliness is an issue here. what is your read on the

request? also, how do you think the supreme court will rule? >> well, there is a positive development yesterday, when the court granted the expedited review of the request. so, that tells me that they're in line with thinking that this is a special urgent consideration. they know the stakes here. and jack smith is right to go to the supreme court. the district court of appeal, the district of columbia court of appeal, they took their time taking weeks to determine the gag order issue. if they took weeks on that, can you imagine how long they took on this? donald trump is complaining that jack smith is going to the supreme court, you would think he would want that to determine whether or not he has presidential immunity. that's because it was never about immunity. it was always about delays. >> we should also note that the supreme court had ruled against trump during the 2020 election cases except for clarence thomas and we know, of course, that his wife has been outed as being prominently involved in efforts to overturn that election. there will be calls for clarence thomas to recuse himself. do you see that happening?

>> no. clarence thomas has no shame. he's going to stay on the court, he's going to help decide the issues, but he's one of nine it has been shown even the justices that donald trump appointed, the three justices of nine have ruled consistently against him on issues like his taxes, for example, issues about document production, so i think in the end, the supreme court will do the right thing here. i know that it may make me look like a polly anna, but they understand the moment we're in. >> the thinking with all of these cases against donald trump is that the one we're talking about, everything around the 2020 election, january 6th, the federal case, is the one that probably could go forward before the election. is there anything you've seen lately, anything with this request here that tells you it too could be pushed down the road a bit? >> it is possible if the court were to deny this request that would mean that the court of appeals has to hear it and as we just heard that could take many months. that would be one thing that could happen. there are also all kinds of other things that could happen,

willie. a case takes on a life of its own and gets organic. there are other motions yet to be filed. donald trump has filed motions for selective prosecution and vindictive prosecution. again, i don't think those are going anywhere. there is a double jeopardy case that has already been ruled upon by the district court. that one could go on appeal, so there are a number of things that could slow down a case. but one thing i think does seem certain, jack smith seems very focused on keeping this on track, and so far the district court judge tanya chutkan seems to be moving with appropriate speed to make sure that that date sticks as well. so, i would say it looks good, but it is never a certainty. >> coming up, the fed is a prevw straight ahead on "morning joe." w straight ahead on "morning joe."

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hidden people, they hide under faucets and rugs. >> that's not a roomba. it's george soros. welcome back. the us air force says it has disciplined 15 people connected to this year's massive intelligence leak that led to hundreds of classified documents being published online. an investigation found that individuals intentionally failed to report documented concerns about air national guardsman jack texeira, who served with the massachusetts air national guard. he's been indicted on six counts

of willful retention and transmission of classified information related to national defense. he has pleaded not guilty. joining us now, intelligence and national security reporter for the "washington post" shane harris. his reporting is part of a new "washington post" frontline documentary "the discord leaks" that is set to premier tonight on pbs at 10:00 p.m. eastern. thanks for being on. i want to understand more about the individuals and how they intentionally failed to report what they were seeing. what did that look like? >> what the inspector general found was there were three individuals in particular who were in the immediate chain of command who spotted him looking through classified documents in computer networks that had nothing to do with his job, which was essentially as a maintenance technician, really there to make sure the hvac

system was working and the computers were working. on four separate occasions people spotted him looking at classified documents, talking about them, taking notes on them in some cases. they never reported that up the chain, because they felt security officials would overreact, was how the inspector general put it. i think perhaps we could infer they didn't want to get him in trouble. it turned out they were profoundly wrong. the inspector general cited them for an pervasive security failure. >> what else did you find when you were working on this documentary about teixeira himself? >> he was highly interested in military history, in weaponry and warfare and computer games. it might seem sort of improbable to people, but he had a very pedantic kind of nature and enjoyed playing games and

lecturing people on the specifics of the weapons they were playing with in shooter games, on arcane aspects of military history. when he gets to be in the air national guard and has access to classified information, he's highly interested in the war in ukraine. he derives satisfaction from being able to tell his friends, hey, i know what's actually going on, i know the real casualty figures, i know how many tanks the ukrainians are losing. he knows this because he has access to classified documents. that's the point where this leaking really takes off. he seems unable to control himself with secrets about global issues and shares hundreds of documents of classified secrets. >> were there revelations about his mental health and questions about why he was in the position he was in with the access to what he had? i go back to the others who were

being punished or lost their jobs. how could they see something like this on someone's computer that they have no business looking at and they just keep walking? >> that is still unexplained as to exactly why they felt they could handle this themselves. as to his mental health, we can't speak to that, but there were some troubling incidents in high school, specifically one where he was suspended for making violent threats about bringing weapons to school and making threats against black people. teachers at the school flagged this as a potential sign of someone who might try to do harm to fellow students. that police report documenting this was found in his background investigation for a security clearance, and it was never transmitted to people at the base who could have kept a closer eye on him had they known that. >> thank you very much for

joining us. catch "the discord leaks" tonight at 10:00 p.m. on pbs. we want to bring you live to washington, d.c. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy has just arrived on capitol hill. he will be meeting with the full senate, speaker of the house and, of course, president biden today. he has come here for his third visit to the u.s. seeking more aid. there's not a lot of controversy that ukraine can use the aid, the weaponry to continue their fight against the invasion from russia. but the debate, it appears, is what else the package should include. ali vitali joins us live from capitol hill. >> reporter: this is another day that zelenskyy is here amid a landscape of really fascinating

dynamics between republicans and democrats, between the house and the senate. just in the last few minuts president zelenskyy walked through the hallway behind me flanked by mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer, representing a bipartisan part of support for ukraine. zelenskyy did enter the room to applause. but once he gets inside, i imagine it's going to be a very tough and tense meeting that he has with these senators. we saw some of them going in. the dynamics here on capitol hill have not just been questions about funding for ukraine, but that package is intertwined with aid to israel, aid to taiwan and dealing with the mexico/u.s. border. republicans in this room have been clear that this is going to be a very tough sell for zelenskyy and the white house might be sending him here to a bit of a fool's errand.

it doesn't seem clear there is the will or a path to get this done by the end of the year. when zelenskyy entered the room, i asked him what are the stakes for your country? he didn't answer on the way in, but it's going to be interesting to see. he's got a full day of meetings here first on the senate side, then crossing over to the house side, where he'll meet for the first time with speaker mike johnson, who has been clear there's not a lot of appetite within the house republican conference to continue sending aid to ukraine. all of this amounts to the very sticky situation here for the end-of-year supplemental that seems less and less likely. >> stay with us as we head to

peter alexander. good morning. how is the president looking at this visit different from the previous where there was unilateral support for president zelenskyy? our president has some convincing to do. >> reporter: i think you're exactly right. what's most striking is perhaps what a difference a year makes. it was this month one year ago that president zelenskyy came to the u.s., received multiple standing ovations as he spoke to a joint session of congress. this time around, a very different situation. as ali detailed here, the president of ukraine is really being thrust into the middle of what is a very bitter domestic political battle. the president has repeatedly amped up the urgency for congress to act right now, calling for $106 billion in total, which would include $60 billion to support ukraine militarily as they head into the

critical winter months here. i was speaking to the national security advisor spokesperson john kirby a short time ago, who said russia is going to be amping up its efforts as the ground hardens there in the winter. they put out some declassified information that the white house shared with me and others basically saying there has been progress made, but they are facing a real uphill climb because of the stalled counteroffensive by the ukrainians in that region and frankly back at home, the republicans saying we agree we would like to see more money to ukraine, but we have to focus on national security here at the u.s./mexico border first. the president said he is open to, quote, significant compromises on this issue. but what he has seen he has described as, quote, draconian. he's facing real political pressure from some of his allies as well, the congressional hispanic caucus as well, among

others, basically pushing back on the president's willingness to negotiate on the issue of border policies, afraid that the president might go too far, give too much away to republicans. as the top senate negotiator james langford of oklahoma has said, it's not going to happen this week and very likely this doesn't happen until january. >> let's bring in jen psaki. put yourself in your old job for a minute here and what the president is confronted with, which is got to get the ukraine aid through, existential says president zelenskyy. president biden also has said we cannot let vladimir putin win. he's going to have to do something on immigration. >> yes. >> maybe it's separate it out. how does he walk that line? >> i think he recognizes from

decades in the senate that we're in a moment right now where if it doesn't happen this week, it's going to be a dwindling likelihood that funding for ukraine happens at all. that is a desperate situation internationally. there's a lot of support on capitol hill for ukraine funding. it's just the border component that many republicans are using maybe smartly as a political negotiating tactic. for the president, there's no more difficult issue than the border, political issue for a democratic president. as peter outlined, the members of his own party don't want him to negotiate at all. they will be upset with him. he's also running for president again, and he needs their support. this is an issue with a lot of strong feelings about what we do policy wise. i think he is going to be more willing to go with a deal and negotiate with republicans if

they can come to a viable deal even if it upsets members of the party who are more progress on the border issues. my bet is that the white house did say to zelenskyy, you got to come here and pull some heartstrings. the problem is, this is off of the front pages. a year ago, my mother-in-law was kind of watching every -- she could do, like, war plans. everybody in the country was concerned about the plight of ukraine. that's no longer the case. people are mad about spending money. the president is aware of that. but getting them funding is essential. if he could strike a deal, i think he would, even if he upsets members of his party. but are they negotiating in good faith on the republican side on the border? >> there's also israel, which could be adding to this.

israeli troops are continuing their military operation in both northern and southern gaza while the world health organization is sounding the alarm on the growing humanitarian crisis. richard engel has the latest from israel. >> reporter: as israeli troops attack hamas across the gaza strip, calls for a ceasefire are intensifying and growing more urgent, with president biden calling for caution. six international humanitarian groups including save the children and care usa issued a joint statement this morning warning the war is sending gaza into an apocalyptic free fall. they say the fighting has killed more than 7500 children, more than all global conflicts last year combined . the israeli military says it does not target civilians and gives warnings before attacks. in washington last night at a

hanukkah celebration, president biden pledging support for israel, but saying he's had differences with the leadership there. >> we have to be careful. the whole world's public opinion could shift overnight. we can't have that happen. >> reporter: the risks of this conflictdle east and drawing in united states are on the rise. a missile struck a ship in the red sea. in iraq, iranian-backed militias targeted the u.s. embassy last week. inside gaza, hunger and desperation are spreading, putting gazans and the hostages taken by hamas at risk. one of the first hostages freed by hamas, an 85-year-old, says time is running out to save the hostages still in gaza. >> how concerned are you about the ones who didn't get out?

>> translator: the lack of air in the traditionals, as well as the shortage of food and medicine could bring people to complete exhaustion and they just won't make it. they need to get out today. otherwise they won't live. >> peter alexander, i'd like to ask you about the administration and the relationship with benjamin netanyahu. how much trust is there? there's been many, many, many questions about the response time on october 7th that are completely unanswered and inexplicable. and then the added report about hamas getting funding through qatar, that being supported by netanyahu, it just feels like the more you peel back, the more complex and difficult to understand it gets in terms of intentionality. >> reporter: i think you're right. obviously complex is a good word as it relates to the relationship between joe biden and prime minister benjamin

netanyahu of israel. these two men were not close. netanyahu before the war broke out came to the u.s., was not invited to the white house for a meeting. instead the meeting between the two leaders took place in new york on the sidelines of the united nations. president biden faces a very unique challenge right now. a lot of his political future is in the hands of two wars that he doesn't have much control over, the one taking place between israel and hamas and, separately, between russia and ukraine. the u.s. is not a party to either one, although certainly they're providing billions in aid to those locations right now. the president has indicated his real focus is on trying to get those hostages home right now, but also that delicate balance of putting pressure on benjamin netanyahu to not allow the crisis to escalate even further.

i asked why ten days passed between conversations between netanyahu and biden. the two had been speaking really only every few days since the war began. they've spoken more than a dozen times so far. the white house said in effect there was nothing to see here, but the two were back on the phone the next day. netanyahu is facing democratic political pressures and biden facing a ton of pressure, but also recognizing he must support israel's right to defend itself. the question is, you know, how much longer can this go and what pressure leverage does the united states have to prevent it from escalating yet further. >> peter, thank you so much. ali, we talked about republicans wavering perhaps on ukraine support. what about on israel? some of that has been made conditional as well. looks like they want to extract whatever they can going forward as well. >> reporter: yeah.

that is perhaps surprising, especially because of the ways we've seen republicans even in the house be such staunch defenders of israel. i think many of us believed after they put a speaker in place that they would move forward to quickly sending aid to israel. what we watched instead was the newly minted speaker mike johnson then tie that israel aid to budget offsets that actually didn't offset or pay for the aid, but were also nonstarters on the senate side of thisle building. some concern about putting conditions on aid to our closest allies is how you ended up with this much larger supplemental package which pulls together, ukraine, israel, taiwan and border conditions. it's something the administration itself was the initial catalyst for action. they're the ones who pulled this package together in that form, thinking border security conditions would pull some reluctant republicans to the cause of ukraine and that israel aid would also pull in some

republican support. instead, we've watched republicans both in the house and senate really leverage this as a moment for the united states to look to its southern border. they have said in the same way they want to send aid to israel and ukraine, they also need to deal with the american border crisis they see happening. so we're watching them play this game of political chicken with border security and sending aid overseas. i imagine that's what we're going to hear from speaker mike johnson when he meets the zelenskyy later today. even republicans who have been supportive of ukraine aid, people like senator lindsey graham, for example, have said they think this is a mission to fail for zelenskyy, coming here and having to effectively have senators say no to his face for more aid because they cannot come to some bipartisan con

sensus. every time they do, it falls apart before votes can happen on it. substantive change on immigration reform tied to equally thorny issues on the world stage is really a recipe for inaction up here. >> you know, jen, listening to the news these past 15 minutes gives you somewhat of a sense of the weight of the presidency. i mean, ukraine, gaza, immigration, political squabbles between republicans and democrats. among the president's jobs, how much do you think it weighs upon him the definition of maintaining the dependability of the united states to our allies around the globe as well as history's harsh judgment of what

is happening right now? >> i think it weighs incredibly heavily on his shoulders. this is a person who has been in public service since he was in his 20s. he has served much of that time working on national security issues. when i worked for him, one of the things i was struck by is he still holds onto the old rationality of washington, the days where you could work together on things where there should be agreement. there should be bipartisan agreement that we need to support the ukrainians in the fight against russian aggression, right? it shouldn't be wrapped up in a political cudgel. he holds onto that rationality and optimism, which you need to have as president. if you don't have that, how are you going to achieve anything? i think this weighs the history aspect of this, the legacy he's

leaving. however long he's serving in office, i think it weighs heavily on his shoulders and the impact on global order, because that's how he has lived his life in public service. coming up, wall street is reacting to a key inflation report that just came across. andrew ross sorkin joins us. plus, harvard's board makes a decision on its embattled president following her congressional testimony on campus anti-semitism. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." semitism that's straight ahead on "morning joe." ( ♪♪ ) the serrano name has always been something we're proud of. it's why we show it off on our low riders and why we wear our name on our chains. we come from people we can be proud of. from socal to our family in texas, to back home in jalisco. seeing all the places i come from, i know. if it's a serrano, it's something to be proud of. i take it all with me and i always will.

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while we were away, the republican party lost one very horrible person, because george santos was expelled from congress. yeah. i'm kind of sad to see george go too. i'm really going to miss those guys. [ laughter ] [ applause ]

>> of course, this leaves a vacancy to new york's third district. some candidates have already been floated like democrat tom suozzi. we have some breaking economic news here. consumer prices rose .1% last month and up 3.1% from a year ago. here to explain is andrew ross sorkin. good morning. what do you read into these numbers? >> not much. i think the truth is, this is where people thought things would be. i think there was some expectation that maybe we'd have a slightly lower number. the reason it would be helpful is because it would put more pressure on jay powell come 2024

to lower interest rates, which is what everybody would love to see. the federal reserve is starting a meeting today. we'll hear from jay powell tomorrow afternoon. we'll get thoughts about where interest rates are going. that will impact people's mortgages and credit cards and the like. one thing worth noting in an election year here, gasoline fell 6%. that's something people see and feel. you're seeing food prices increase marginally. rent has gone up 6.5%. that's something else people feel on the other end. >> if you think about the communication of the message from the white house, inflation is ticking down, unemployment is at historic lows, gdp numbers are up, and yet rent is high, interest rates make it almost impossible to buy a house right

now. you can't tell people, no, you're actually doing well if they don't feel like they're doing well. >> that's exactly right. i was the spokesperson for the economy during the financial crisis. i learned a lot of lessons from that experience. one of them is data does not move people, even good data. it's important. it measures the economy, of course, but it does not move people politically or emotionally. it's a challenging circumstance even though most of it is very good for the white house. this is a place where they really need to draw the contrast with trump. this is not just about data. this is about who you're fighting for. joe biden is going to fight for the working man in scranton, the working woman in ohio. donald trump is not. donald trump is fighting for himself. it's less about the data and it's more about human beings and who you're representing in the white house. that's the messaging challenge, i think, because every time you

get a piece of data, you think it's going to move the marker, and it really doesn't. they spent a lot of money on economic ads. the contrast is really where it should go and needs to go and is starting to go. >> do you think any white house gets the visible aspect of the economy? most people can listen to andrew, but he mentioned the word visible in terms of gas prices. >> yes. >> people pay for eggs and bread and milk and they can see the numbers when they check out. they can also see the numbers when they pay their credit card bill because of the interest rates. >> it is that, but you can't tell people how they feel. you can tell them, your gas is lower, you've got to feel better, right? it's more conveying to them you're fighting for them and

working to make their lives better, and this other guy is not. the economy is never perfect. andrew ross sorkin is one of the smartest people out there. he's probably not moving people with the data. he's just reporting the data. this is incumbent on democrats to remind people what their agenda is and who their agenda is fighting for. it's about the emotions and less at the numbers. >> andrew, just for the record, you move me with the data. >> that wasn't meant to be a critique of andrew. i love hearing his explanation of data, to be clear. another story for you, andrew. tell me about this google loss anti-trust case over the android apps, fortnite makers. >> it's a big case because it

has to do with the app store on android phones. you may recall there was a big lawsuit about a year and a half ago that fortnite brought against apple, saying that these app stores unto themselves are monopoly powers, that effectively apple and google are extracting huge rent, if you will, from anybody trying to sell an app in these app stores and they're monopolies and they effectively should be broken up. apple won a large part of the lawsuit, and a judge ruled in their favor. what happened yesterday was, google lost the case. there was a jury involved. so the jury came back with a ruling against google, saying they do have monopoly power and their app store is a monopoly, even though google phones are more open, if you will, meaning

you can put things on your phone not necessarily through the app store unlike an apple phone. it's going to have a huge implication for apps, for how much you're paying in the app store and potentially much more when it comes to these devices in your pocket. andrew, let's talk about this report. >> oh boy, i know. >> it's telling us teens, a large amount of them, are on youtube and tiktok, with one in ve saying they are using these apps almost constantly. every second of every day? >> i can speak, unfortunately, from experience. i'm very proud of my children, but this is one piece of it i'm not proud about as a parent. these things are addictive. we know it. we know about the mental health issues that relate from it, but

the addiction is real. this study looking at both youtube, which has become one of the hottest addictions. people think of youtube in many ways not like a social media site. but in many ways, it's like tiktok. interestingly, it's youtube and tiktok taking so much share of young people's brains. interestingly, instagram and facebook are a lot farther down the tier. it's a real thing. >> in terms of your parenting, i would make the conversation about how addictive it is. >> i have all the screen

settings. i don't know i'm proud or upset that they know how to break through the settings. [ laughter ] >> terrible. >> true. >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," several alumni and faculty are coming to the defense of harvard university's president following her congressional testimony regarding anti-semitism on college campuses. we'll take a look at the growing show of support for claudine gay. t for claudine gay.

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harvard's board announced that gay would stay on as president and not be removed from her post. members of the board met yesterday and deliberated through the night on president gay's future. more than a third of harvard faculty members signed a petition urging administrators to resist calls to remove gay from office. yesterday the harvard alumni association also came out in support of claudine gay. >> joining us is johanna burkman. thanks for being here. first of all, your reaction to the news that claudine gay will stay as president? obviously liz magill at penn was released from her job after that disastrous hearing. why was it different at harvard? >> it's important to note that liz magill was already under a

cloud and already facing lots of calls to resign prior to her congressional testimony. if you remember back before the hamas attack of october 7th, university of pennsylvania had hosted the palestine rights literary conference. i don't think the issue was with having that conference per se. i think the issue some of the major donors and some on campus had was with the fact they were having very well-known anti anti-semites speak on campus like roger waters. i think there was a move under way already to have her leave office. i think behind the scenes others

were continuing to advocate for her removal and i think her congressional testimony was the last nail in that coffin. >> there are heavy hitters at harvard, some huge donors who have expressed their concern. they've called for her resignation. was it just that the faculty rallied around her that saved her job? >> i think it was a number of things. i think harvard wanted to take a different tack. i think they chose to be deliberative. from speaking with my sources while i was reporting as well as in the last couple of days, the idea was not to have a kneejerk quick decision. i think the community was extremely disappointed with her testimony. as the board said this morning, that was an error.

claudine gay herself apoogized for it. i think they are saying they're giving her another chance and she is going to redouble on her efforts to fight anti-semitism. and i think if she does that, that will be really terrific for the community. if she does not, i think that will be a very significant thing. i think people will be watching her very, very closely. i just want to highlight, if i may, there's a really significant bit of news embedded within the corporation's statement this morning. i don't know how much attention it has gotten yet, but they mention that they undertook a review of her academic writing, and this was brought to their attention in october. they say they've done a thorough review and claudine gay will be in communication with two of the

journals where her work has been published and she will be making four corrections, adding citations and quotations to passages that she published as her work. >> the accusation was plagiarism. does it look like this investigation concurred, giving her the chance to fix it? >> harvard at the end of the day is an academic and research institution. i won't be surprised from speaking with some community members this morning if there are serious requests made to see that report. also, according to the corporation, they consulted with leading political scientists to review her work. i take them at their word that they did, but there may be calls to disclose the report and have transparency which i think many feel in the community is

important and has been lacking. >> do you think harvard has an issue with freedom of speech? >> i think, based on my reporting, yes. on a recent call with harvard donors, the dean of the college was asked the question, you know, how does harvard have open dialogue when we're living through a very partisan challenging time? what he said in answer to that question literally was, houston, we have a problem. and then he cited a survey that i think is really significant. with the congressional testimony, there was a lot of talk about the fire survey. if you remember when

congresswoman stefanik said harvard comes in dead last in this fire t gay responded and sd something to the effect of of i don't think that's reflective of our campus. well, what the dean shared on that call just weeks ago was that last year's graduating class, they did a survey. you had to complete the survey to get your commencement ticket. so 98% of those graduating filled out the survey. the question was, do you feel comfortable discussing controversial topics in class? about 37% said they did. then the question was, do you feel comfortable discussing controversial topics with your peers? and 39% said they did. i think those results speak for themselves, to answer your

question. i think there is an issue. the question is what they can do to work on that. i think it's also important to point out this is not only a question for harvard. i think harvard is exemplary of what we are seeing in higher education in america. i think it's probably an issue at many, many universities and colleges, unfortunately. >> as willie said, we've seen what happened with the president of upenn and obviously harvard. the other president was at m.i.t. what do we anticipate there? >> i'm not so familiar with m.i.t. the story i wrote was all about harvard. but what i'm hearing is the board very quickly backed her, just as the board of penn very quickly did not back magill.

m.i.t. had the opposite very quick response. some of the talk around that has been, well, it's not a humanities institution, it is a s.t.e.m. school. it's a different situation, the free speech issues are different. however, i watched some of the videos of what was going on at m.i.t., and it's pretty extreme, classes interrupted, screaming in the middle of classes, students feeling threatened, jewish students hiding in their dorm room. i think we'll have to see if that president redoubles her efforts. >> do you think on campuses across the country, where we've been told that words are violence and all these bubble wrapping things -- is there a re-evaluation of that now?

>> the short answer is yes. i was speaking last night with a rabbi. he said as disappointed as he was with the congressional testimony, there is a way in which it liberates the situation. he said, you know, sometimes the biggest issue for resolving something is diagnosing the problem and that what we saw in the testimony was the illness in a sense and that now is the chance to move forward having all seen that, you know in the u.s. and globally to see that on display. it makes it quite clear there is much work to do in higher education, harvard and elsewhere, absolutely. >> thank you so much for being here. >> thank you so much for having me. coming up next, a new documentary provides an inside look at the first 20 days of the

war in ukraine and the toll russia's invasion has taken on residents. the director joins us next. the director joins us next ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ [bell ringing] and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage— and is crushed by a baby grand piano. are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty.

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with ukrainian president zelenskyy in washington meeting with congressional leaders, a new documentary film titled "20 days in mariupol" exposes the atrocities committed by the kremlin. the story is told through the perspective of a journalist who was there on the ground with his team when the russian bombs began to fall. >> the war has begun, and we have to tell its story. ♪♪ >> this is painful to watch, but it must be painful to watch.

[ speaking in a global language ] >> joining us now here in studio is the film's director and cinematography. thank you for being here. it is gut wrenching to watch your film from the united states. i cannot imagine what it was like to be there with a camera in your hand. set the scene a little bit for our audience about these 20 days, where you were, what was happening. >> i have to say for the ukrainians and me this war has been going happening. >> i have to say, for the ukrainians and for me this war has been going on already since 2014. so, an expectation of russia's attack was there, and it is just about which day it is going to happen. and mariupol was such a significant target for russia,

tactical, symbolical and we were surely going to be attacking it violently. and so we went there, because we thought it is going to be such an important story and for 20 days the siege lasted for 86 days, mariupol fell and now official numbers, 25,000 people died, but it is likely to be much more. we have been there for 20 days, and we have seen horrible things. children dying, buildings collapsing under the russian bombs, and hospitals didn't have any medicine, any painkillers, and we were just sleeping with the people in this hospitals, just sharing space and food with citizens and trying our best to send some kind of reporting from the city, because there was no connection. the city was totally blocked, not only militarily, but also

there was no information coming in and out. >> i was going to ask you that, how difficult it was just to get information out of mariupol, to tell the story that the world needed to hear, that you did so well then and now in this documentary. how difficult was the reporting there? >> it was incredibly difficult. i think the fact that the city was blocked also from information perspective is part of a modern warfare. people who are cut off, from the news, from knowledge of what happens to their country, their country still exists, just makes them panic. and modern society collapses. so, it was incredibly important for us to get at least some information to the people who were with us to tell what was happening and also to send what we saw out to the world. these were first days of the full scale invasion, these were the days russia were saying they are targeting only military targets, not civilians suffering, everything is fine, and to kind of just -- to show

that narrative is false, we had to send what we filmed. but it was very difficult. you had to just, like, hide under the -- like small concrete, like concrete stairs, just to catch some connection, under the bombs falling. it was terrible, but there was always a feeling of importance because people kept telling us, please show to the world what is happening, please show it so the world does something. and this is all going on right now. just different cities. this is what is happening now with so many other cities, i could give you a list of very long list. >> and one of the most infamous moments that you documented is the bombing of a maternity hospital. the film focuses on the aftermath of that moment. take a look. auto auto

[ speaking in a global language ] >> so, you're from eastern ukraine. >> right. i'm from kharkiv, yeah, which is kind of a similar culture even visually. >> these are your people. this is your country. you were talking earlier about the punishment that ukraine is undergoing on a daily basis that the world sees and you were also

saying you think the punishment is so severe and ukraine with its proud history, sometimes tragic history, has in a way, i think you said, become more proud, more strong, more united than it has ever been in a sense. is that true? >> i guess there is much better way to get the true sense from people, this is something that surprised even ukrainians' unity and the sense of community. so this ability to resist, this ability to know that you can actually change something and to stand for your country was extraordinary. that feeling is -- until now, didn't go away. it actually became stronger. and strangely less help there is, the more dire the situation is, the stronger that feeling of the community and the wish to go

on and to keep fighting for your land. >> we have been talking a lot this morning, president zelenskyy is in washington making the case for more funding for ukraine. i think we all agree it is hard to understand why the united states wouldn't provide more funding. as someone who just captured the horror of the early days, who has lived this, what should people know about why this funding is so important and why, you know, supporting ukraine in their fight against russia's aggression is important at this moment. >> i am finaling narratives that russia uses, the false narrative russia uses in europe and the u.s. as well and part of that narrative is if you stop giving weapons to ukraine, that's going to stop the war, and russia really pushes hard that narrative. but in fact, what it doesn't account for is that ukrainians will keep fighting anyway. they know what happened in 2014 and 2015 when they let russia to a next part of ukraine.

it just gave russia space and time to prepare for another attack. and therefore ukrainians will not stop fighting because everyone lost someone in mariupol and in other cities and every family has a soldier on the front line, and just impossible to comprehend how could you just let russia get another part of a country and just prepare for another attack? it is just how to imagine if russia would take san francisco, destroy l.a., and then people would say to u.s., just forget about it, just let them have it, so there will be peace. that's how hard for ukrainians to understand as well, what is happening. and that's why the waiting for support. >> and president zelenskyy is in a conference room somewhere

right now making that case on capitol hill to members of congress. the film is truly extraordinary. you saw some pieces of it. there is much more "20 days in mariupol" streaming in a number of places including youtube and the pbs app. mstyslav chernov, thank you for being here today. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break.

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it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. i'm here to thank you. right now on