it has been a no good very bad day for ukrainian president zelenskyy. once hailed in washington as a hero, now getting little more than the cold shoulder. so what changed?

democrats are still on his side with the white house pleading for congress for $61 billion more in aid, but congressional republicans are not moved. speaker mike johnson even avoided posing for a picture with zelenskyy today. instead telling the wartime leader that the u.s. border must come first. zelenskyy is meeting with president biden right now as you saw. we should hear from both of them again at the white house in about an hour. what can they say to change the mind of republican lawmakers and if they cannot, what will happen to ukraine and how soon? first, let's find out how moscow is viewing this. joining us is keir simons from moscow and nbc news capitol hill correspondent, ryan nobles from capitol hill. chief, keir, excuse me. i'll just call you chief from now on. how is putin seeing this? is he watching this closely?

>> he absolutely is. he hasn't said that himself but his spokesman, the kremlin spokesman, has been clear they are watching closely. kremlin officials will say that they know when congress will finish for the holiday. so in other words, they know that the clock is ticking. there is a belief in the kremlin that the atmosphere is changing and that this is a pivotal week. it certainly is with president zelenskyy there on the hill and then now meeting with president biden. then later this week, he will face a question from europe about whether ukraine will be able to start the asession process for the european union. meanwhile, president putin here in moscow will hold a traditional question and answer session with journalists and the russian people. it's very choreographed, but is another event this week that i

think the russian government will try to use to double down. spokesperson for the kremlin peskov using those same talking points we heard on the hill today saying why would america spend tens of billions of dollars more on ukraine? it's not going to change the military position in ukraine. and i think what you're seeing with the russian government here and you can see behind me moscow is busy. the economy has not been as impacted as the west had hoped over sanctions. i think what you're seeing is the russian government hoping that they can move forward with president putin's election next year. he's out launching submarines this week. he traveled to saudi arabia this month trying to project himself as a leader that has moved past the conflict even while the conflict is continuing. but for russia, there is still

severe isolation. you're not able to travel directly between russia and europe. what's happened in ukraine has changed things dramatically here even while president putin is going to try to act as if that's not the case. >> there's also a "new york times" report talking about the amount of losses they've sustained. hundreds of thousands, and among military equipment, severely weakening their military capability and readiness for anything else that might come their way. does putin see this as an opportunity, i don't know if you know this, but as an opportunity to keep pushing on into ukraine to try to take over the whole country or to start to negotiate for a settlement that might include more territory like the donbas or luhansk regions? >> it's a good question. clearly, there are those in the u.s. government who believe that that is the russian plan if you like. i think you know, it's right to

say that there isn't necessarily an agreement within the russi government about what the plan should be. maybe president putin is a tactician. maybe he has different ideas in mind, but you can see here moscow is frozen, snow on the ground. i think that the russian government would settle for a frozen conflict if you like. they would project that as a victory. i suspect that's one of the reasons, i know that's one of the reasons why for president zelenskyy and for the ukrainian government, they don't see that as an option. >> let's talk about washington. ryan, it was such a different welcome than he received just a couple of years ago or a year and a half or so ago with everybody. bipartisan support. this time, the democrats were there to support him but the republicans were not. let me play for you what senator durbin said about how it went. >> i'm angry and i'm

disappointed. angry that we would consider walking away from ukraine at this moment in our history. >> did he address any of the immigration issues? >> yes, he did. he said if we lose, you can count on occupation by the russians. warfare to resist them and massive migration of people out of ukraine into europe and beyond. >> explain more of what you're hearing on capitol hill, ryan. >> well, i just got out of briefings from the leadership of both the senate republican and democratic parties and you're getting a much different tone as to the status of these negotiations. the key negotiators are going to meet at 3:00 today. that's chris murphy of connecticut for the democrats. senator james langford of oklahoma for the republicans. kirsten sinema who's an independent senator. as well as representatives from the white house and from both of the offices of the leadership teams but republicans seem pretty insistent that there's just not enough time before the holidays for them to get a deal

done. the senator minority leader mcconnell telling us a few minutes ago he believes this is likely to go into january which will make the process more difficult because they'll be up against a spending deadline. senator schumer took a different tone. he believes there's a sense of urgency and he's very concerned by the rhetoric from mike johnson and mcconnell that they'd just be willing to go home for the holidays for three weeks and not deal with this until january. in fact, speaker johnson said basically that right after he met with zelenskyy. take a listen to that. >> they have not provided us the clarity and the detail we requested over and over since literally 24 hours after i was handed the gavel after speaker of the house. so what the biden administration seems to be asking for is billions of additional dollars with no appropriate oversight, no clear strategy to win and none of the answers that i think

the american people are owed. >> so johnson just not moved enough to keep his people in town past thursday. especially when there doesn't appear to be any real tangible progress on this kind of grand bargain that would allow them to get everything over the finish line. and i think what's frustrating particularly for senator schumer and for the republican hawks who were supporters of funding for ukraine is that most republicans believe that this is a necessity. but now that it's been tied up in these border negotiations, they feel it's too great of an opportunity to let them pass by and that's why they're insistent on what they're calling transformational change at the border before they move at all ukraine. >> seeing it as aovent to use some of their own leverage. gentlemen, thank you very much. joining us now, george packer. his article is in this month's issue and it's titled we only need some metal things. will america abandon ukraine? also with us, former u.s.

ambassador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst, michael mcfall. michael, talk about what we left off with ryan. this idea that republicans are trying to tie ukraine aid into immigration and the border and democrats are not having any of it. how do you view this? >> i view it as wrong. i'm happy that people want to debate immigration reform. that's long time coming. that's a very important public policy issue. but ukrainian soldiers should not be held hostage to that debate. and i want to remind everybody that it was just months ago that these same republicans were saying we need to have clean votes on individual appropriation bills and now they're doing exactly the opposite. so yes, we should have that debate and we should, everybody should learn more of the details of that, but it should not be held hostage to something that by the way speaker johnson was also wrong when he says we need to think of our security

interests first, it is in america's national security interest to stop putin's army from taking more of ukraine. and so i really wish they could just separate these issues and get this done before the holidays. >> the argument has been that if putin is able to win in ukraine, he will keep moving. he'll take, you know, he'll try to rebuild the ussr and that will include some nato countries. do you still see that given the amount of losses russia has sustained? what it's gone through with this war. the resistance it's met and would he really want to have a war with the united states and the west with nato if he were to step foot into one of their aligned countries? michael? >> i don't think he wants a war with nato, but he definitely wants the take more of ukraine and you don't need to believe me. listen to him. listen to what they say. they're very explicit that they want to take more of ukraine. if we don't provide this

assistance, that will happen. and then here's what's going to happen. then that threatening army is going to be on the borders of our nato allies and our nato allies are going to say we need more soldiers, american soldiers, to deter that attack. we need more american military assistance to deter that attack. so yes, maybe it won't be a direct threat, but indirectly, our allies will be nervous and that will mean we will spend more money to deter putin's army if we allow him to succeed in ukraine. >> george, you've been talking to soldiers in ukraine. what are they telling you? >> yeah, the other day, i talked to two soldiers. a volunteer private and a major and they are following our woeful debate very carefully because their lives literally depend on it. the major said to me everything that america doesn't give, costs us in ukrainian soldiers' lives because if it's a matter of artillery shells, they're being

outfired by three or four or five times to one by the russians because of the shortage of 155 millimeter shells. if it's antimissile defense, their cities are being destroyed and their infrastructure destroyed in advance of winter by russian ballistic missiles which rained down on kyiv just today. to me, it's more than just wrong. it's a disgrace what's happening right now. that's the word that senator vance used to describe president zelenskyy's visit to washington. it's the right word for what the republicans in congress are doing by essentially holding ukraine's fate hostage to their own domestic political wish list. while ukrainians soldiers and civilians alike are waiting day by day to find out if america is going to abandon them and they're not sure and i'm not sure that we won't. this doesn't feel like a game to me of chicken.

it feels like a very real risk that we're going to abandon ukraine and that ukraine next year is going to face a slow, steady not just demoralization, but destruction of more of its cities, more of its lives, more of its military until putin is essentially in a position to demand what he wants. at that point, what are republicans in congress going to say to him? sure, take it, and take whatever else you want. the ambassador is exactly right. it doesn't end with ukraine. this will be an enormous political and moral victory for putin if he can face down nato and the west and say i won. >> george, in your article, again, we only need some metal things. you put this into historical perspective. can you make the comparison between what's happening now and prime minister churchill's appeal for aid in the 1940s? >> sure. in 1940, hitler had conquered most of europe and was really preparing for a sea invasion of

great britain. churchill turned to franklin roosevelt and asked him to lend about 40 or 50 aging u.s. destroyers to defend the english coast. what churchill wrote, with great respect, i must tell you that in the long history of the world, this is a thing to do now. and i can't think of better words for the moment we're in with ukraine's survival on the line. this is a thing to do now. and the republicans who are out of opportune or out of a desire to appease russia are withholding this aid are really not that much different from the charles lindberghs of the 1940s who thought well, hitler isn't going to threaten us so why should we send our weapons to britain? that's just throwing good money after bad when in fact as the

ambassador noted earlier, we are degrading the russian army. it's not as thoughhe to get away with what they're doing in ukraine without a cost to themselves. ukraine is in a sense doing the fighting for europe. that europe would have to do otherwise if putin decided he's going to test us a little further and see what happens if he goes into the baltics or part of poland which i think is not out of question. so ukraine is doing the fighting for us and to withhold the weapons is to be in an america of 1940. >> george, do you put any pressure on the democrats here to come to a compromise on the border? in order to get this aid out? >> i think the president probably regrets having put it into the bill in the first place because it wetted the appetite of republicans who are now asking for what they know the

democrats will have a hard time giving. essentially reducing the asylum system to a shadow of itself. they know it's a tough one for democrats so they're going to keep pushing it. but who does that cost? ukraine. and in the end, it costs us. yeah, the democrats are negotiating and in a sort of desperate way, listen to what senator durbin said. i spoke to the senator in colorado who is a mild mannered guy. he feels as if there's a kind of blackmail going on but for what purpose? it seems to be at the cost of ukrainian lives and the future of democracy in europe. >> george, ambassador, gentlemen, thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, her life wasn't at risk enough to qualify for a texas abortion. what the state supreme court ruling means for the other emergency abortion cases it is

hearing. plus, president biden says prime minister netanyahu needs to change his government. what's behind the biggest rift yet between the u.s. and israel? and what it could mean for u.s. financial support. first though, it took the supreme court almost no time to say yes to considering whether to consider presidential immunity. what the justices told donald trump and when we could hear a decision. we are back in 60 seconds. d heaa decision we are back in 60 seconds. you know that feeling of having to re-wash dishes that didn't get clean? i don't. platinum plus is cascade's best clean ever. with double the dawn and double the scrubbers, it removes the toughest grease and residue for an irresistible clean and shine. cascade platinum plus. dare to dish differently. (husband) ♪ hey there family! while you're shopping, ♪ cascade platinum plus. ♪ get me a 5g phone, it's on my list. ♪ (wife) instead of doing all of this a better plan is to switch to verizon. (avo) this holiday turn any samsung phone, in any condition,

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joining us now, joyce vance. this is fascinating because donald trump says he's innocent. he says what he was doing was part of his presidential duty. what did he want the supreme court to quickly rule on this in order to free him from this case while he runs for office? >> well, that's a great way of setting up this issue because yes, if you believe that you were entitled to presidential immunity, the argument trump is making, you would be eager to have that case heard by the supreme court. it would mean the case against you would be dismissed and you could go on your way with campaigning. >> all right. so, is that what you imagine trump's team is going to say when they respond? >> well, they're in an interesting dilemma. we know trump's strategy is always to try to delay the inevitable for as long as possible. it will be a tough argument for them to make here. it's tough to think of any reason to insist on going through the court of appeals and

the extra delay that that entails. you know, the supreme court ten or 15 years ago used to rule when people asked for this sort of special treatment leapfrogging over the court of appeals and having the supreme court hear a case directly. the court would decline to do that saying that they had confidence that the court of appeals could decide the matter quickly and efficiently. but in more recent years, really the last few years, we've seen the court increasingly entertain these sorts of petitions for cases involving issues like daca or abortion, education. affirmative action. and so i think it's a heavy lift for trump's lawyers to oppose this but i'm fairly certain they will. >> it is pretty interesting they responded to the supreme court within hours of jack smith making the request. did you glean anything from their speed? >> well, they take the issue seriously. jack smith has brought on board one of the most consummate

supreme court practitioners the country has who was formerly the criminal deputy in the solicitor general's office was in that office for 30 years. so this is a serious matter and the court will consider the government's request very quickly. that of course doesn't presuppose whether or not they'll grant it. >> so there's also some news that the special counsel's team has trump's phone data from january 6th and the day-to-days surrounding the final weeks while he was in office. if you were looking at this data, these records, what would you be looking for? >> well, as a prosecutor, you always like to have a defendant's phone. it can give you a lot of information and in this case, we have a little bit of a sense of what they're looking at because the reason we know about this is that jack smith has filed his disclosure about experts he plans to use and that gives us a

window into what he looked at in this data. we know they have data beyond these two phones they've seized. the two are identified as trump's phone and as a phone possessed by someone else inside of the white house. could be mark meadows. could be someone else. and they tell us that they want to have experts who will talk about how people moved. they can look at phones and perhaps they've got information about folks who connected with trump's phone or the other white house phone and then maybe moved from the speech on the ellipse over towards the capitol. perhaps that's more general information about how population shifted from one place to the other. but we do know that they have images on those phones. they know when twitter was open and was being used and they know what websites were visited. so even though we don't know specifically what jack smith will be looking at, i think it's safe to think that he will try to establish that trump knew what was going on, understood

that there was violence, that the capitol was being overrun and perhaps this will delve deeper into the sort of connections and role he played on that day. >> joyce, thank you very much. we'll be watching this closely. coming up, cracks in their alliance. what biden is saying for the first time about prime minister netanyahu. first though, if not kate cox, then who exactly would qualify for an emergency abortion in texas? would anyone at all? yone at all? . and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure.

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hours after kate cox decided to leave texas for an abortion, the texas supreme court vindicated her decision, validated it really, to go out of state because she does not qualify for the emergency procedure in texas. cox already a mother of two is about 20 weeks pregnant. doctors say her fetus has a genetic mutation that means it will not survive. the justices say her on health, kate cox's own health though, was not at risk enough despite repeated visits to the er for severe cramping, potentially caused by leaking am nottic fluid, and medical warnings that continuing the pregnancy would endanger her ability to conceive again. joining us now, coanchor of saturday today, laura jarrett. we were talking about this

yesterday as the supreme court put an emergency stay on it. they ruled pretty quickly that no, she does not qualify. my question is if she doesn't qualify, if her health was not at risk enough, who does qualify? >> so, this is one of the times where i think the legal standard on the books and what's happening in reality start to come into pretty stark contrast. the court takes pages and pains to say this is really a decision for a doctor to make. this is not a decision for judges to make, but they don't really give any great guidance to doctors who are worried about getting sued right now given all of the conflicting and overlapping bans in texas. all they say is essentially the doctor has to assert that the woman has a life threatening physical condition. now, kate cox's lawyers would say she does have a life threatening and physical condition. she has all of these different issues as you laid out. >> she's been to the er multiple times. you don't go to the er because you have a scratch. >> exactly. and so they would say her doctor

has attested to her own good faith belief that kate cox should qualify. so what more do you need. really, the court is just saying here she didn't exactly use all of the magic language she needs to under the statute. because she didn't do that, she doesn't qualify. but they're not saying someone wouldn't qualify in the future. curious who would that person be. >> do they need to be on death's door? >> no. in fact, the court goes into that in some detail and says 're not saying and they say this, we're not saying that doctors have to wait until the mother is within an inch of death or that her bodily impairment is fully manifest. they're saying we understand this is so bad the woman has to be on death's doorstep. but again for doctors facing life in prison, right, like that's the penalty in texas. it's quite serious. i think they're sort of at a loss with what to do with this. >> there's another case in front of the texas supreme court now with a woman we know well on

this show. does this decision affect that case at all? >> the court says it doesn't. that it's dealing with other broader constitutional issues for women who are no longer pregnant. women who wanted to get a medical exception. >> she actually got septic. >> because the doctors wouldn't do it early enough. they waited for so long, it got to that point where she was in such dire condition and now has a, you know, dealing with the ramifications of that. >> blocked fallopian tube from all the scar tissue. >> exactly. the court has not reached a decision in that. they still need to. they say even though they're reaching this decision for kate cox, they're going to separately address that. >> thank you very much. and on capitol hill, the house rules committee is expected to vote to authorize the impeachment inquiry into president biden. if approved, it could go to the house floor as soon as tomorrow. speaker johnson told reporters the white house left him no choice. >>. >> the impeachment inquiry is

necessary now as amber just explained because we've come to this impasse where it's following a stone wall. they're not allowing witnesses to come forward and thousands of pages of documents. we have no choice. we have to take the next step. we're not making a political decision. >> with a three seat majority, republicans have just enough votes to formalize the inquiry even if they lose ken buck who so far is the only house republican to signal opposition to the vote. coming up, defamed georgia election worker, shaye moss, is on the stand today in the trial against rudy giuliani. what she says ruined her life. first though, his harshest criticism yet. what president biden told a group of donors today about benjamin netanyahu needing to overhaul israel's hard line government. israel's hard line government

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president biden and prime minister netanyahu aren't entirely on the same page. speaking to donors in whiton today, the president said netanyahu needs to change his government and saying there must be support within th israeli parliament for a two state solution. sang quote, we have an

opportunity to begin to unite the region and they want to do it but we have to make sure that netanyahu understands he's got to make moves to strengthen. he cannot say no to a palestinian state. that's going to be the hard part. also adding that israel is starting to lose support over its quote indiscriminate bombing of gaza. president biden will meet with the families of american hostages as israel says it is now recovered the bodies of two more of its hostages. a 27-year-old and a 36-year-old. nbc news chief foreign correspondent, richard engel, is on the ground with the latest. >> as israeli troops attack hamas across the gaza strip, calls for a cease fire are intensifying and growing more urgent with president biden calling for caution. six international humanitarian groups including save the children and care usa issued a

joint statement this morning warning the war is sending gaza into an apocalyptic free fall. they're asking for a cease fire and action from washington saying the fighting has killed more than 7,500 children. more than all global conflicts last year combined. the israeli military says it does not target civilians and gives warnings before attacks. in washington last night at a hanukkah celebration, president biden pledging support for israel but saying he's had differences with the leadership there. >> i have to be careful. the whole world's public opinion can shift overnight. we can't let that happen. >> and the risks of this conflict spilling across the middle east and drawing in the united states are once again on the rise. overnight, rockets launched from areas controlled by iranian backed houthi rebels in yemen struck a norwegian ship in the red sea, causing a fire and damage, but no casualties according to u.s. defense

officials. in iraq, iranian backed militias targeted the u.s. embassy last week. inside gaza, hunger and desperation are spreading, putting gazans and the hostages taken by hamas at risk. one of the first hostages freed by hamas, an 85-year-old, says time is running out to save the hostages still in gaza. >> how concerned are you about the ones who didn't get out? >> translator: the lack of air in the tunnels as well as the shortage of food and medicine could bring people to complete exhaustion. and they just won't make it. they need to get out today. otherwise, they won't live. >> joining us now, the times of israel political and diplomatic correspondent, tall schneider. good to have you. let me ask you about this rift between president biden and prime minister netanyahu. it is something for the president to come out and name some far right ministers by name in front of a bunch of american

donors and to say netanyahu needs to change his government and get on board with a two state solution. especially since prime minister netanyahu has not been about a two state solution even in the aftermath of this war. >> right. i think that you know, across the board, israel, you will not find support for the two state solution even if netanyahu will change government. i don't think the pentagon -- now the opposition leader will support two state solution right now but they will definitely not go out against the president in public in such way that the prime minister netanyahu is doing. and the reason netanyahu is doing those things and doing those videos and claims and statements is because he is obliged by this very right wing extreme government that biden talks about. so obviously, i mean, president

biden knows what he's talking about but i do think that if you look at it for the concrete matter, you will not find support for a two state solution in israel in this current period of time with you know, what took place here with the massacre and the mass casualties and the attacks on israel that are coming day and night from lebanon, syria inside palestinian territories in the west bank and obviously from gaza. as we speak right now, we still have rockets being shot at israel. >> yeah. >> it is very problematic. >> it's an extraordinarily tense time and emotions are extremely raw especially after the horrors of october 7th. the images coming out of gaza are horrific and if there's not support for a two state solution, what is there support for? or is there a belief that going back to status quo, if that's

even possible, is a solution? does that make things any safer for israel? >> so that's the biggest problem here because we have a leader who doesn't have a vision. and i think this is also biden's problem. i mean, white house is requesting from israel for two months now to come up with some sort of plan for the day after and we don't hear our leadership mainly netanyahu, we don't hear him saying anything on what's to come afterwards. so it's not enough to present your goals for the war to finish off hamas and bring back the people who were abducted. you also need to make a plan. netanyahu for years avoided making any plans, strategic plans, for gaza. this is his way of governing without making agenda. without a written platform. he won election or lost election without any written or stated

proposal. and this is something the israeli public is crying about for so long. how can you go on without you know, no vision. but i mean, this is part of the problem. the reason biden is unable to get anything from him. >> i was talking to our friend the other day and yesterday and she said israelis are not seeing the images we're seeing out of gaza. is none of this being shown on israeli tv and if not, why? >> it is shown. we do see the images. we cannot ignore. we are fully aware for the you know, kids and civilians that are hurting on the other side. with that, i have to tell you, i don't know how can you you know, from one side, you know, call for the finishing of hamas and we are being shot at with

rockets. how can you try to you know, end those rockets and end the terror against us. on the other side, you know, we do know that hamas is shooting those rockets and is conducting its atrocities from within civil society. so it's a huge problem and we see the photos and know no kid should suffer like that. i completely agree. and you know, many of the people that were abducted were actually peace activists or trying to work with the other side for so many years. so it's really hard wrenching. you have in captivity now people who were calling for actually a discourse with the hamas. you just showed, the husband of the woman wrote, he was a journalist. he wrote and called for years for negotiation with hamas and now he is being held in

captivity. he is 85 years old. is being held in captivity by them. >> i know there are a lot of calls for israel to stop fighting. hamas could end this, too, by giving up. if they wanted to. tal schneider, thank you very much for joining us. >> they can release the hostages tonight and finish this thing. i mean, the war will stop as soon as they get 138 people out. >> yeah. they could surrender. thank you. coming up, harvard president gay will keep her job. what university leaders said today in support of her following that controversial testimony on capitol hill. and lost s weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes.

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we have breaking news out of new york. the state's court has agreed to allow the state to redraw its congressional map, a significant win for democrats. hoping to retake u.s. house in 2024. according to reporting by my colleague jane timm in a 4-3 opinion the court ordered the state's redistricting commission to draw a new map by february 28th, 2024. remember democrats lost four seats to republicans in 2022, they were flipped, helped giving republicans control of the house. it is now day two of rudy giuliani's defamation damages trial, and it began with the judge admonishing him for saying

this to reporters yesterday -- >> whatever happened to them, which is -- it's unfortunate for other people overreacting. but everything i said about them is true. >> reporter: do you regret what you did to -- >> of course i don't regret it. i told the truth. >> them being shay moss and her mother, ruby freeman. the word could lead to another defamation claim on top of the claim currently being litigated. on the stand was shay moss, one of the two election workers giuliani accused of committing fraud in the 2020 election. joining us from out the court how to is justice reporter ryan riley. wasn't there a signed affidavit or something from rudy giuliani a acknowledging that he was lying about the two women? am i remembering that correctly? >> reporter: you are. over the summer there was an acknowledgment that those statements were, in fact, false. obviously it's not something that rudy believes given his statements yesterday. and it really is just -- you

wonder where rudy falls on this now because it's crazy to believe these allegations at this point, right. they have been so thoroughly disproven, and for someone to lean into there and say that these -- lean into there and say that these lies are true, remarkable, coming from a once u.s. attorney and mayor of new york. that's the situation we're in with shay moss testifying about the impact that this had on her lives. she discussed how she only told her mother recently that she had to take medication as a result of the depression that she's suffered as a result of this, how when she went into a chick-fil-a to apply for a job the manager turned around his screen and showed an image and asked if this was her, one of the sort of crazy stories about her, how she had to sign up for delete me, had to shut down her facebook messaging profile, shut down her linkedin profile and had a move, in fact. they found her new address, and he got a bunch of crazy mail, as well, featuring cutouts of her

face in the mail. just really creepy, disturbing things, and also testified about what rudy giuliani has in his head during all of this. you know, he's compared them to bank robbers and drug dealers. and shay moss testified, you know, that's what he thinks about when he thinks about black people is what she said on the stand. >> thank you very much. and we have an update also out of harvard. the school board says its president, dr. claudine gay, is staying. joining us now, nbc news correspondent antonia hilton. they were meeting last night. this news came out pretty early this morning. what is the reasoning behind it? >> well, what they're saying is that she's the right person to keep leading the university. but from all the conversation and chatter that's happening in the wider harvard community, full disclosure i'm a part of that as an alum, is that the school felt a need to show politicians, to show donors who were trying to apply pressure to them, that they are committed to academic integrity, to their own

freedom and decisionmaking, that they had to show they are the board essentially. that not everyone else, no folks in d.c. are the board of harvard. that's part of the action here. there also is genuinely a groundswell of support. a lot of people in harvard's community like president claudine gay. they believe her when she apologized. so some of this, too, as you saw hundreds of people come forward and sign that letter, lots of alums, particularly -- even black scholars outside of the school who were celebrating her appointment just a few months ago back in the summer, they reached out it people in the school, as well. so that's some of the level of support and backing that she had, that someone like miguel at upenn did not. >> is anything going to change on harvard regarding speaking about jews, anti-semitism, following all this? >> i think you should expect to see her step up in terms of the language she's going to use going forward, the kind of support she's going to be offering students. she's spoken to students, for

example, in crimson and apologized and the ways she sees her responsibility differently. a lot of what people said in the community is she gave a legal answer to a moral question. and she's learned her ln on that. i think people are going to be watching closely. and certainly lawmakers are going to be watching closely. we saw elise stefanik say on twitter, you know, they're going to continue investigating. that doesn't mean her troubles, the scrutiny is over. >> donors, too, i wonder what they're going to do, although the endowment at harvard is so astronomically large, i wonder how much of it -- >> harvard cares about donors. >> i guess. thank you so much for joining us. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right after this very quick break. is very quick break. and is crushed by a baby grand piano. are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache! oh, look! a bibu. [limu emu squawks.]

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hi, everyone, 4:00 in new york. i'm in for nicolle wallace. we've got a ton of news on this