rudy giuliani's 11th hour decision in a trial that could cost him millions with jury deliberations now underway. plus, lies about the 2020 election taking center stage in michigan. so-called fake electors for donald trump have headed to court. the evidence become laid out today. new hope to a border deal that's critical to getting aid for ukraine. what we're hearing from top senators about the negotiations. plus, police make an arrest in the murder of a detroit

synagogue leader found stabbed multiple times outside her home. what we're now learning about the suspect. our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. we start with rudy giuliani's trial nearing the finish line in d.c. ryan reilly has been following it for us. the jury deliberations got underway in the last hour. what's the update? >> reporter: yeah, so the jury now has this case. they had lunch delivered to them. they will be able to begin starting deliberations right away and have about three hours before the end of the day here. these eight jurors are going to decide just how much in damages to award to these two individuals who were defamed by rudy giuliani and as you mentioned, rudy giuliani said previously that he was going to testify and whose lawyers said he was going to testify did not end up taking the stand, and the way that the lawyers sort of framed that to the jurors here was they didn't want to put the two plaintiffs through any more

of a tough time here given the experience they went through. yesterday when ruby freeman was on the stand, the defense attorney for rudy giuliani chose not to question her because it was pretty devastating testimony, and i don't think wanted to look like he was piling on to an individual who really, you know, went through hell in the after math of these attacks on her, the false claims against her, as well as we heard from earlier this week, from her daughter shaye moss. we could hear at any moment now, any time today, what exactly jurors decide is the right finding in this case here, chris. >> ryan, thank you for that. a group of republicans accused of being fake electors for donald trump in michigan are back in court today. nbc's shaquille brewster has the latest on this for us. shaq, what have we heard today? >> well, so far in these hearings, we've heard from a state trooper, former board of elections director and the former chair of the michigan republican party, all in this hearing to determine whether or not there's enough evidence for

this case to go on to trial. the state is alleging here that the state of republican electors back in 2020, essentially conspired to commit forgery, they signed on to a document saying that they were the dually elected and qualified electors for the state, and that the state's electoral votes should go to former president trump instead of joe biden who won the state by more than 150,000 votes. we know about this scheme. if you watched any congressional hearings, if you listen to media reports, we have been familiar with what was attempted here. this is the first time you're seeing fake electors confronted in open court. we're learning not just about what happened but what almost happened. listen to some testimony earlier today. >> there was a plan that had the electors spend the night in the capitol on december 13th to cast their votes per the laws of the

state of michigan on december 14th. >> this may seem like a silly question, but why did you not like that plan? >> in my gut, i didn't think it was a very good idea. >> that was a little bit hard to hear, but that was the former chair of the party saying that at one point there was a plan to have the electors spend the night in the capitol so that they could file this false slate of electors here. the defense you have been hearing is this essentially was a contingency plan, these electors were following the advice of different counsel. you're going to see this continuing to play out throughout the day and more hearings to come as the judge determines whether or not there's enough evidence for this to go on to trial, chris. >> shaquille brewster. thank you, shaq. >> there's new optimism surrounding border negotiations that are critical to getting the foreign aid package for ukraine and israel over the finish line. nbc's julie tsirkin is on capitol hill for us. what are lawmakers saying today?

>> reporter: chris, i spoke in a rare interview with senator sinema who's the independent. senator chris murphy on the democratic side, and senator james langford who have been in the room at it for weeks, trying to solve an issue that congress has not been able to address in three decades. she told me as much today this is something that's complicated. it's going to take time to get right. the proposals are ones that spanish lawmakers, immigration advocates are unimaginunimagina cruel, putting a back up provision like title 42, the covid era policy that allowed migrants to be turned away, discussions lawmakers don't want to have. here's what sinema said today. what do you say to hispanic lawmakers who yesterday called the proposals on the table, quote, unimaginably cruel. >> what's unimaginably cruel are

the folks and the images that we see of folks and families sitting in the desert, you know, down at lukeville, there were individuals sitting out in the desert, without access to restrooms, without food, and without water, simply waiting to be processed by customs and border patrol because we don't have enough person power to manage that inflow. that is a humanitarian crisis. so the solution is to actually create an orderly process where those who do qualify for asylum have the opportunity to seek it in our country. >> reporter: chris, remember, today was the last day that the senate and house were supposed to be in session. i'm hearing from sources that during the democratic lunch a couple of moments ago, leader schumer informed colleagues that they will leave today or tomorrow at the latest and come back on monday. he believes they could get to a deal, one in which immigration aid proposals to reform policies at the border are included and

the crucial foreign aid which sinema floated to me today, is something they have to stay and get done before the end of the year. >> big news there, julie tsirkin, thank you. let's go to detroit now, and a major update on the case of a synagogue leader who was stabbed to death outside her home. nbc investigative correspondent, tom winter is following that story for us. police have charged a man with murder, what can you tell us about him? >> this whole case rose to such national prominence because samantha wall was found dead outside of her home, and this was in the period right after hamas's terror attack on israel in early october. and folks had a lot of questions as to whether or not she was targeted because of her faith and off the fact that she is a president or was a president of several synagogues in the detroit area. so that was of significant concern and concern for authorities. they now say that michael jackson bolonos, age 28 is going to be charged with felony murder

during the perpetration or attempted perpetration of a larceny. they believe home invasion was the ultimate goal. they say the two did not know each other as nbc news reported a large israeli flag was untouched when investigators combed through evidence. the wayne county prosecutor, the office that's going to be overseeing this case, quote, there are no facts to suggest that the homicide was a hate crime, end quote. so they're very clear about this, that they don't think that hate is any sort of a factor in this crime. obviously as more evidence comes out, we'll continue to report on this as the case goes through the court system. the big fear was whether or not there could be someone on the loose committing hate crimes against the jewish community in detroit. as it pertains to this specific case, it doesn't appear that's the case. >> tom winter, thank you. right now, the dow is in record territory for the second day in a row. can this surge help fuel a

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despite encouraging economy news, the biden election campaign continues to fight a battle against voter discontent, a point donald trump continues to hammer relentlessly on the campaign trail. >> the biden administration is running on the fumes of the trump administration. without us, this thing would have crashed to levels never seen before. if we're not elected we'll have a depression the likes of which nobody has seen, likes of 1929, that's what's going to happen. >> trump delivered those words only a few hours after the dow hit an all time high yesterday. which "the washington post" says reflects optimism that the economy is slowing just enough to bring down inflation without

triggering a depression. the "wall street journal" puts this way, it's beginning to look a lot like christmas for the markets. vaughn hillyard in iowa, carlos curbelo is here, and eugene daniels. carlos and eugene are msnbc political contributors, wooet is -- wall street is cheering the fact that -- americans haven't seemed to notice. what do you think about that disconnect in political terms? >> these are the types of headlines that the biden administration needs. the macroeconomic data has been good, sentiment isn't, why, because inflation is backed into the numbers and americans haven't adjusted to the higher prices that are frankly here to stay. what we want is for inflation to stop going up, and it certainly

seems like that's happening, which is why the fed announced some cuts for next year, which will also be helpful. we have seen interest rates skyrocket. mortgage rates have skyrocketed. as those come down, sentiment will likely improve, and that's really what is keeping president biden's numbers down, that people don't feel good about the economy even if the numbers are pretty good. >> you know, vaughn, it is arguably a useful political strategy for the trump team to say what they're saying, right, because people are feeling like the economy isn't necessarily where the economy is. but beyond the base, is there any nervousness you're hearing that a stronger economy will indeed eventually be good news for joe biden? >> reporter: right. i think this is where donald trump lacks the nuance of the complexities of the things he talks about. the economy chief among them. over the last 24 hours, i've had

conversations with dozens of iowans, and what we consistently hear is frustration with higher grocery prices, gas prices, mortgage rates, all which ultimately has a major impact on the day-to-day ability to make simple payments as well as having extra cash on hand, especially at times like the holiday season, and donald trump, what you heard last night was hitting home that very message. he was running with the theme of better off with trump. which we should note in 2019 and 2020, donald trump was making many of the similar predictions you heard last night when he was predicting that a great depression, if joe biden is reelected again. back in 2019 and 2020, he was predicting that the stock market would crash if joe biden were to win the presidency. of course from the last 24 hours, there is evidence that is not the case despite joe biden being in office for three years. but for donald trump here, he is playing very much to the grievances and the concerns of a

great mass of the american electorate and for joe biden to hail a 3.7 unemployment rate, a strong stock market, there are other economic factors and variables that a great share of americans do not see the successes of, and donald trump is running for president of the united states. we should expect him to continue to lack so mump of that nuance as he seeks the white house again. >> so eugene, the latest npr, pbs maris poll has the president up a point, that is within the margin of error. among independents, trump leads biden by 5 points, and that is outside the margin of error. what is the biden campaign doing to try to help what we're seeing, some improving economic numbers start to match with the folks out there, voters on, you know, in the key battleground

states. >> largely, they have a feeling of we have to tell the story. we have to as a campaign tell the story of what the administration has done, what trump would do if he was in office if he were to get the nomination, and i think, you know, what i will say as someone who has covered this campaign in 2020 and at the white house from the very beginning, they have been saying that for a very long time, that we have to tell the story, that this is the white house that just needs to tell the people what we have done for them, and that hasn't worked or they haven't figured out how to do it, talking in terms of kind of bidenomics is working for you when people don't feel like that as the congressman said. that is a big issue that they have still yet to contend with, and frankly, it would be hard for most campaigns to contend with, and the nuance of what's happening right now. there's so much of the macroeconomics that's constantly

in conflict, right, the inflation numbers, but then also people having more jobs. more jobs being added every month. you have people feeling like something, so the question, you know, the james carville idiom of it's the economy, stupid, no it's how people feel about the economy, stupid. it's not just enough to tell people, these are the numbers, look at these charts and figures. you have to figure out a way, and they're still trying to figure out a way to make people feel better about the economy. if what the fed chair said is true, they're going to move numbers down over the next year and that could be helpful and is likely to be helpful for the campaign and the administration. but they have to be able to sell that to the american people in a way that changes minds. >> you know, carlos in the meantime, joe biden does have a problem on the lef flank. progressives were a wit him about the ways handled israel. punch bowl report that is house and senate democrats warn the

whusehat biden will suffer serious consequences if he caves to gop demands on immigration policy and border security. alienating the very voters who helped him win office in 2020. how big of a problem do you think this is? it's not like progressives are going to vote for donald trump, but would they actually sit out an election or vote for a third party candidate in numbers that are enough potentially to make a difference? >> this is the big squeeze that members of both parties face in this country these days. they're squeezed between base voters and swing voters that actually determine who wins the key states and the key districts and i think it's time for president biden to pivot and start looking to the general election. he does not have a serious primary challenger the way donald trump might. that remains to be seen, and he's got to start listening to those middle of the road voters who do want to see greater border security, who do want him

to be the joe biden of old who would negotiate with republicans, who has said that he enjoys cutting deals with mitch mcconnell. i mean, that's what is going to help joe biden turn his poll numbers around, and win those independent voters that you discussed earlier, chris, who are now favoring donald trump. those are the voters that are ultimately going to decide this, and at some point, members of both parties have to take their base for granted because if they don't win those swing voters, they can't win the election. >> let me go back to independent voters. it is a small slice, eugene, of the electorate, obviously a critical one. let's take some of the suburban women who have flipped, republican and democrat. and i wonder who they're listening to. i was thinking about that when i heard paul ryan speaking very harshly about donald trump. let me play that. >> trump's not a conservative, he's a pop list authoritarian

narcissist. all of his tendencies, basically where narcissism takes him, whatever makes him popular, feel good, at any given moment. >> liz cheney has been in that moment too, particularly as she's on our book tour. is there an audience where words like that, paul ryan, can have an impact or really is it going to be the candidates and not surrogates? >> yeah, i mean, it's possible but i think largely the people that liz cheney and paul ryan are talking to are probably watching msnbc. they're not the folks watching fox news, they're not engaging in the right wing media ecosystem in the same way. they don't have paul ryan and liz cheney, a lot of pull with those folks. that's something that's going to change the primary. the folks, especially, you know, you talk about white suburban women who have moved away from republicans, if it's donald trump again, it is likely they're going to do the exact same thing that they did in 2020, unless something huge were to change, and so this administration, this campaign

has to make a gamble, right, and as the congressman was saying, figuring out, how much do you shore up your bonafide with more progress folks, who can make a big difference, or do you go with folks who have been consistent in their voting, who have always voted in some ways, and looked like they have run away from the republican party. that's the gamble they're trying to make, right. as folks tell them how they feel about israel and hamas, and how the administration has handled that issue, you know, the folks that are happy with that are also folks who are probably those white suburban women. we're largely seeing those numbers are staying there. it is a gamble that this administration and campaign have to make because young black and brown voters are frustrated not just on israel and hamas and palestine but a myriad of issues the administration has handled. >> eugene daniels, always good to have you on the show. carlos curbelo, vaughn hillyard,

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with funding for ukraine, for israel and ukraine still in limbo, along with a deadline pending for a government shutdown, and a newly launched impeachment inquiry, the house just officially wrapped up its

legislative work for 2023. and on that last agenda item, house republicans are saying the quiet part out loud. when asked about their vote launching an inquiry into president biden without evidence of high crimes or misdemeanors, well, take a listen for yourself. >> what are you hoping to gain from an impeachment inquiry? >> all i can say is donald j. trump 2024. >> other republicans had a trickier time articulating what exactly the investigation is for. >> can you identify any actual policy decisions that joe biden has made in response to getting paid for those policy changes? >> that will be part of the investigation. >> the facts haven't taken me to that point where i can say that the president's guilty of anything. >> reporter: nbc's ali vitali reports from capitol hill for us. back with us, former republican congressman, carlos curbelo. ali, no one seems to be able to

point to a specific crime here as we look to the arguments yesterday. there was a lot of vague accusations, but what happens between now and moving between an actual impeachment here? >> reporter: more of the same, frankly. these investigations have been going on for the entire time the republicans have held the power of the gavel. they have been happening at multiple different committees but specifically at the three committees helming this impeachment inquiry at oversight judiciary and the ways and means committee. but frankly, when you ask folks what the impeachable offense is, and i have asked this question of those three committee chairmen because they're the ones leading the charge here, they can't give you a specific charge in part because the things that they're alleging happened happened when joe biden was not the president of the united states, and in some cases wasn't even serving in public office but the other part of it is they don't actually have a substantiative link yet or ever as to whether or not hunter biden's business dealings had

anything to do with the president. we heard hunter biden himself echo that yesterday, and that's what we're also hearing from democrats who are consistently reminding of this watch. >> the extreme maga republicans in the house were ordered by an organized crime boss, the twice impeached former president of the united states, who has been, we've seen, a living, breathing, one person crime wave, he basically ordered the extreme maga republicans to launch this illegitimate impeachment inquiry as a political hit on president joe biden to try to undermine president biden's ability to be reelected. >> reporter: so jeffries touching on the over politics of this moment, and certainly in playing that clip of congressman there are more ways to underscore the point. while there were the votes for an impeachment inquiry, chris, many of the republicans who came around on this idea in the last few weeks were very clear to make note of the fact that this is not an outright impeachment, it's an impeachment inquiry,

it's a chance for them to gather facts. i think it's going to be really hard for republicans to come back next year and need go full boar into actual impeachment but it remains to be seen what they do with this investigation. >> congressman, we talked about saying the quiet part out loud. when you hear trump 2024, baby, is that what's really happening? >> well, chris, for some of the republicans in the house who are aligned with donald trump and who basically take orders from donald trump, that certainly is what it's all about, but on the other end of the spectrum, you have 18 republicans in districts that president biden won who really aren't comfortable with this whole impeachment theme. they understand, and we spoke earlier about swing voters, they understand that swing voters, pragmatic voters in this country, who will decide the 2024 election, not just for the presidency, but also in key districts and states all over the country, this is not what

they want congress to be focused on. they want congress to be focused on the issues that are impacting every day americans, whether those are economic issues, inflation, education, immigration, that's what people want to see, so a lot of these centrist republicans are going along with this for now. but they have made it clear that they do not yet see sufficient evidence or impeachment, and i think they've also made it clear that they personally do not want to continue walking down this path. >> what do you think the chances that the speaker does keep walking down this path? >> well, look, speaker johnson, like every other republican speaker over the last decade is going to feel the squeeze between the freedom caucus types, the ones that respond to donald trump's every wish and desire and those centrist republicans who are the majority makers, they're the reason that republicans have a small majority in the house right now. and ultimately, he's going to have to decide, this is a

speaker, chris, who for now, seems like he's unwilling to bend to every wish and desire of the freedom caucus. he's already taking some criticism, some freedom caucus members calling him the next john boehner, because they're not happy with the way he has negotiated with democrats. so it does seem to me that speaker johnson, at least for now is finding that balance, that very difficult balance in the house republican conference between keeping the freedom caucus, those hard line members at bay and trying to help the centrist members, the majority makers as much as possible. >> congressman carlos curbelo, ali vitali, great to have both of you. hamas members in belgium, we'll discuss the security implications next. if if

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now to poland where hanukkah candles inside the parliament billion have been re-lit after a disturbing incident with a far right lawmaker. the video shows the moment a fire extinguisher was used to put out the candles on the menorah. he later described hanukkah as quote satanic. and according to the ap, that same lawmaker once marched in protest of poland providing compensation for jewish holocaust survivors and their families. the speaker of parliament described the behavior as

absolutely scandalous and condemned his actions. well, today scenes of devastation after what the associated press says were israeli air strikes killed at least three people in the southern most area of the gaza strip which is where the idf has encouraged civilians to seek refuge. the ap captured footage of several people, including young children being rushed to the hospital. the palestinian health ministry says israel has killed 18,000 people. the u.n. says 85% of gaza's population has been displaced and the world food program analysis found that even more, 90%, don't have access to food every day. and today, heavy rains are flooding the strip, raising the threat of all rampant deadly diseases. nbc's hala gorani visited a refugee camp where thousands of people are camped out trying to survive. >> reporter: the humanitarian situation inside of the gaza strip is going from bad to

worse. and inclement weather is not making things easier for people sleeping out in the open, especially in one outdoor makeshift tent camp between khan younis and the mediterranea sea. three miles from southern gaza's, border, this is where the israeli military says they should be safe. bathing in plastic buckets. blistered feet of those who have walked a long way to this camp. i swear i'm asking to die in my house, not on the border, iya bakar says. they are running from the bombs and the shelling, but it's the dirty water that could become the next big killer here. >> we have the most serious acute gastroenteritis we have seen in our practice, due to bad sanitation, due to bad water, to dirty water.

>> reporter: the hospital in southern gaza, children wait to be treated in overcrowded always. my son's condition, she says, diarrhea and stomach poisoning, flu like symptoms because of the cold. these stories are everywhere. even for those lucky enough to have a roof over their heads. >> here we make tea and coffee. >> reporter: sharing a single room with a dozen family members for fata's elderly parents, the medication has run out. >> and since i came here, i'm trying to find these medicines for my mother. i couldn't find any one of them. >> reporter: with so much of gaza destroyed, for many, even when the bombs stop falling there may be nowhere left to go. as the u.s. administration continues to press the israeli government for a post-war plan, the death toll inside the gaza strip continues to rise climbing

over 18,000 since october 7th, according to the hamas run health ministry. >> hala gorani, thank you for that. israel says police germany, denmark and the netherlands have arrested several terrorists associated with hamas, foiling attacks intended to kill civilians on european soil. joining us now is marc polymeropoulos, former cia officer, and msnbc national security and intelligence analyst. israel's fight mark against hamas extends beyond gaza. i wonder what you make of the successful operation and what it might mean going forward? >> i think that, you know, a group like hamas, founded in 1907, our struggle against al qaeda propped up them and we are looking at hamas as an organization that can conduct operations externally, outside of israel, and, chris, by the way, this is not just against israelis. there was a threat from a hamas

spokesperson saying against u.s. interests as well. this is going to take cooperation between intelligence services around the world. the israeli external service will take the lead but the u.s. will be close behind. for a long time, hamas was seen as doing a lot of fundraising outside of israel, and now that it's operationalizing, now that there might be attacks planned, this is going to be a significant challenge. we're going to rise to that just as we did against al qaeda and isis threats. yet another thing for the world intelligence services to worry about. >> you have a new op-ed out today in "the messenger" about the 30 americans killed in the october 7th attack. what is it you want people to know? >> so, you know, one of the things in the counter terrorism world is that when, you know, u.s. citizens killed in a terrorist event, there's a robust response, whether it's the fbi trying to bring those to justice or if we can't have that

reach, the u.s. military and intelligence communities, you know, using unique authorities, removing them from the battlefield, and i don't hear much about that. you know, over 30 americans were killed. that's more than were killed in the embassy bombings by al qaeda africa bombings in 1998. the united states took a big hit. and i do wonder and i raised it in my op-ed, is that because of the idea of inherent anti-semitism, duel citizen american-israelis not considered the same as someone living in the u.s. i expect the u.s. intelligence community to be on this. certainly the israelis are as well but i wanted to raise that notion. americans died, over 30. and there's still eight americans still who are hostages in gaza! i also wanted to ask you about russia because vladimir putin today held his first year-end press conference since the invasion of ukraine. at one point he said that russia

has 617,000 troops in ukraine, a rare assessment of their force, but do you put any stock in a number like that? >> this was a painful four-hour event. i watched some of it. unfortunately others had to live through this, and he did use that number, 600,000. what's interesting about that, chris, is that this comes just in the days after the u.s. declassified a report in which it noted that over 300,000 russian soldiers had been killed or wounded. 87% of the russian standing army since the invasion began, a staggering number. i think this was putin's efforts to counter that, and what's really interesting, if you look at that intelligence assessment and you see kind of the incredible, you know, results of the u.s. and the european assistance program to ukraine, you have to contrast that with putin being smug today, an air of kind of pending victory, and that's because the political dysfunction in the u.s. where

this $60 billion aid package is stuck. >> let me just ask you really quickly, i think you're right, the number that he used was 315,000 troops, not that he used but that we've reported now. 315,000 troops killed or wounded and vladimir putin says we're in great shape. we have heard about people fleeing the country so they don't have to go to war. how long can they keep this up, do you imagine? >> you know, kind of in the russian psyche, there's this notion of suffering. he's counting on that. what he's really counting on is that, you know, the west gets hired, and that's unfortunate. this assistance program, which has, you know, reinvigorated nato, saved ukraine, cost about 5% of our defense budget and attrited enormous parts of the russian military. ethically it's the right thing to do with the david versus go

lie -- goliath story. he thinks he can outlast the west. >> marc polymeropoulos, thank you. and by the way, we've got breaking news about ukraine. now one step closer to joining the european union. during a sumt in brussels today, the european council chief announced that leaders agreed to formally open membership talks with ukraine. this is a surprising turn because earlier in the day, hungary had vowed to block the decision. ukrainian president zelenskyy welcomed the news and tweeted, history is made by those who don't get tired of fighting for freedom. it's unclear when exactly those talks might begin, but it does come at a pivotal moment for ukraine, just days after zelenskyy's trip to washington where he urgedawmakers to send more military aid. coming up, a video you need to see to believe. yep, that's a bull on the loose at a bustling new jersey train station. we've got a live report next.

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okay. i thought i had seen everything in new york or at least new york, new jersey, what the heck happened? >> reporter: i got to tell you, chris, good afternoon to you, nice to be with you. thanks for having us on. maybe the bull thought he was going to wall street. but he went to the wrong state. new york is one state over here in new jersey. it was the last thing that anyone at newark penn expected to see when they got on the train headed to new york city. it was around 10:00 this morning when out of nowhere this massive bull made his way on to the tracks. yes, a bull with the horns and all. several hundred pounds. apparently he didn't care too much about newark penn because he was only here for a few minutes. that was enough to disrupt service between new jersey and new york. after leaving here at newark penn, the bull then went several miles until it was

eventually cornered in a parking lot, corralled by first responders, and headed to a sanctuary. imagine seeing a bull and the reaction across new jersey is exactly what you thought it would be. >> this can't be happening. no, this can't be happening. in jersey? i was scared because i didn't know if he was going to run into us or whatever. but i'm trying to get home. the buses wouldn't stop. everybody had to detour. people trying to get to work. it was a mad house down here. >> they had to close the gate. then he was trying to run out. every time he tried to come out, they was running because, you know, them horns. >> reporter: listen, they can laugh about it now. they said when they saw this thing hoofing it toward them, they didn't know what to do. they see this massive animal with big horns coming their way. now on to an an sanctuary. the animal expected to live out its days with ten other cows and cattle. the governor from new jersey having fun with this one.

i have always been bullish on jersey's future, but this is a step too far, folks. chris. >> i was just on that line last night during afternoon rush hour. i'm guessing a lot of people looked, might have been momentarily scared, but really it was just, how much longer is it going to take me to get home. adam harding, thank you so much for coming on the program. we appreciate it. conspiracy theories and campaigns with a controversial figure with a history of racist remarks. who does vivek ramaswamy think he's appealing to? that's next. a few years ago, i came to saona,

they told me there's no electricity on the island. we always thought that whatever we did here would be an emblem of what small communities can achieve. trying to give a better life to people that don't have the means to do it. si mi papá estuviera vivo, sé que él tuviera orgulloso también de vivir de esta viviendo una vida como la que estamos viviendo ahora. es electricidad aquí es salud.

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iowa crowd last night. if you had told me that january 6th was in any way an inside job, the subject of government entrapment, i would have told you that was crazy talk. fringe conspiracy theory nonsense. i can tell you now having gone somewhat deep in this, it's not. the reality is we know that there were federal law enforcement agents in that field. we don't know how many. let me finish. this is important. >> i'm going to go ahead and interrupt you here. >> nbc's vaughn hillyard is back. ramaswamy is pushing another conspiracy theory, the government was involved in the kidnapping plot against michigan governor gretchen whitmer. when you look at it in total, what's his strategy here? >> reporter: well, it's because it works for donald trump, chris, and a great share of the republican electorate believes these claims. number one, let's be clear, there's no evidence that has been presented that federal agents were involved in the january 6th capitol attack. number two, as it pertains to

the attempted kidnapping plot of gretchen whitmer of michigan, two of the defendants pleaded guilty and testified that another one of the defendants, not an fbi informant was the master mind of the idea to kidnap gretchen whitmer. that was the testimony of one of the codefendants. there were four fbi informants that were involved knowingly with the fbi as part of the sting operation, but it was one of the defendants, not one of the fbi informants who was the master mind of the kidnapping plot. vivek ramaswamy is not a candidate who has stuck to the facts and stuck to the reality. instead, he has an understanding that the conspiracy theories that have propelled donald trump are largely what have made him relevant in this republican primary, and clearly last night, he intends to take this and these conspiracy theories, despite knowing otherwise to whatever may be ultimately the end of his presidential campaign, chris. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you so much for that. and i just want to give our

viewers a quick update that our campaign producer who was with vivek ramaswamy just reported some other things that he had to say including suggesting that women in the inner city are gaming the system and they're not getting married because, and i'm quoting here, i'm getting more by me being married to uncle sam than i am to you. he debuted a new, questionable, very questionable statement about the climate change agenda suggesting that tire dust from e-cars is worse than burning fossil fuels in traditional cars. so vivek ramaswamy continuing. but that's going to do it for us this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday, 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. ♪♪ good to be with you. i'm katy tur. pay close attention because we