campaign producer who was with vivek ramaswamy just reported some other things that he had to say including suggesting that women in the inner city are gaming the system and they're not getting married because, and i'm quoting here, i'm getting more by me being married to uncle sam than i am to you. he debuted a new, questionable, very questionable statement about the climate change agenda suggesting that tire dust from e-cars is worse than burning fossil fuels in traditional cars. so vivek ramaswamy continuing. but that's going to do it for us this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday, 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. ♪♪ good to be with you. i'm katy tur. pay close attention because we

have a lot of legal news surrounding the former president. first, a new york state appeals court has told donald trump it will not overrule judge engoron's limited gag order which said donald trump could not attack his judicial staff, a decision that is basically moot seance the civil fraud case has rested, leaving judge engoron to decide how much to fine donald trump and how to stop the former president and his family from doing business in new york. we're going to explain the stakes, they're big, and when to expect a decision. there's also news in the federal election interference trial in d.c. yesterday we told you judge tanya chutkan put that case on hold as both the supreme court and appellate court decide whether to expedite a ruling on trump's claims of presidential immunity. trump's team called it a big win, but for how long? just hours later, the d.c. circuit court said yes, they will expedite a ruling.

fast tracking a decision that has huge consequences for whether donald trump can be tried for the federal crimes he's currently accused of. let's dive in because there's a lot of how and explaining to do. joining us is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin, and msnbc contributor, and former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official, chuck rosenberg. ken, i'm going to start with d.c. i think that's the most interesting thing for me. what's going on with the appellate court? >> you've got the supreme court and the d.c. court of appeals moving towards hearing this case, although the supreme court has not yet said whether they will actually hear it. they have asked donald trump's lawyers to file a response to jack smith's request that they hear it by wednesday. and so a lot really hinges here on what the supreme court does.

they could decide to take this up, and then the appeals court schedule is moot. that's over. the supreme court has it. and then the question will be how long will they take to, you know, schedule arguments and turn around some kind of ruling. history shows us that when the supreme court wants to move fast in consequential cases that impact the entire country, it can do that. in the u.s. versus nixon case, in the bush v gore case that decided the 2000 election, four days. another thing the court could do is wait and see what the appeals court does, and that could very much delay things. a lot of the options point to some kind of delay in the may 4th trial date. >> how quickly does the appeals court normally work? >> they're on an expedited basis. chuck and lisa might know more. could be a couple of weeks to a couple of months, but not as long as usual. nothing would be faster than if

the supreme court decided to take it up and to hear it rapidly and turn around a quick decision. that would be the end of it. you know, in terms of the substance, they may not have to get to this crucial and undecided constitutional question of whether a president is immune from criminal charges in his official acts because they may decide that as another judge has, another appeals court has that donald trump was not acting as the president when he was trying to overturn the election, that he was acting as a candidate, as a politician, but not as part of the scope of his presidential duties. >> which would make the immunity argument moot. am i hearing that correctly, chuck? >> that's right. think about it this way, katy. many things that a president does, any president are official acts but take nixon, for example. a break-in at the watergate hotel or a cover up at the break-in at the watergate hotel are clearly not official acts. i think the way this case was charged by jack smith respecting mr. trump outlines steps mr.

trump took to overturn a fair and free election. those are not official acts. that's not what a president does. it is not even really what candidates for presidents do, except in this very odd case, so i think it's a very serious question. i think it's a very important question. i don't think it's a very hard question. what mr. trump was alleged to have done, and alleged in the indictment, of course, katy, are unofficial acts and whether it's the court of appeals that hears it first or the supreme court that hears it first, and i hope like ken outlined, it's done quickly, i think it's a relatively simple question. >> well, explain why you think it's such a simple question. >> yeah, sure. at least i'm going to try to explain it, katy. i think it's a simple question because you can imagine scenarios where presidents do lots of things and make lots of decisions within sort of the official scope of their duties,

and thug from repercussions for acting as president. there are lots of things that presidents can do that have nothing to do with their official duties. for instance, if a president, you know, concocts a scheme to submit to the congress a false slate of electors to try and overturn a fair and free election, that's not an official duty of a president. the way the case was charged makes it very clear that the president was acting outside the scope of his official duties. you know, it's very possible that the appellate court or supreme court says something along the following lines. the case was properly charged. the indictment outlines unofficial acts. you don't get immunity for unofficial acts. you know what, let's wait and see how the proof comes in. the proof at trial could differ from the way the case has been indicted. the acts that have been alleged. and so, you know, we may be at

the supreme court more than once on this case. pre-trial and possibly post conviction. >> so interesting, so the trial could go forward, and then donald trump could appeal at the supreme court and say, actually, no, this was not engaged on correctly. this was not litigated correctly. that really does drag it out. could you put a stay on sentencing while that plays out, if he were convicted? i know we're talking about theoreticals. >> i don't think so. i think in the general course, and chuck will correct me if i'm wrong, you have to take a case to completion before you have an appeal of conviction and a sentencing. the solution that chuck was suggesting could happen is one that also could be sent back to the district court for further fact finding. you'll remember, katy, last week when the d.c. circuit decided that three civil cases emanating from people who said that they were injured on january 6th, the

court said he wasn't acting in his official capacity. however. >> that's a civil thing, though. >> in a civil case where there is some precedent, and the precedent says we're acting within the outer perimeters of official duty, you're entitled to immunity. he was not acting in the outer perimeter. the court said he was entitled to send it back and have preliminary discovery on that question. that would be in many respects the worst case scenario to not get a clear, crystal rule from the supreme court as to the immunity question but one that necessitates more factual development. >> it's hard to guess what they're going to do, and i don't think it's necessarily prudent to guess what the supreme court is going to do with any sort of assuredness. it could go in any number of ways, as chuck has said and you have said. we do have hard deadlines here. what has the supreme court said for submitting motions and what has the appellate court said for submitting motions so we know when we're expecting movement.

>> in this choose your own adventure, trump's brief opposing the petition for cert, that's due december 20th. >> can you explain what for cert means. we use it as though we have all gone to law school. >> it's asking the supreme court, take my case. usually when we talk about an appeal, it's a case where we know that the court to whom the case has been appealed will actually review the decision on appeal. the supreme court on the other hand, there are very few cases that the supreme court has to hear. and so it's up to them whether they want to hear it in the first instance. it takes four votes from among the nine justices to escalate a case from being reviewed by the supreme court. they get thousands of petitions a year, and review 60 cases on the merits a year. it's important for viewers to understand, just getting to the place where the supreme court says we'll hear your case, that's like a fish in a barrel,

right? >> 60 cases, how many do they end up hearing arguments on? >> those are the 60 they hear arguments, and there are others decided on motion practice outside that. >> let me switch gears. we're going to talk about the new york civil case here. while i think the federal case, the elections case is the most interesting, it's the one that could happen the soonest, very high stakes. it seems like donald trump is most interested in the civil fraud case in new york. that's the one that he attended court on. it's the one where he was going to testify, and he didn't testify, and he's now posting about it on his social media, talking, again, about his financial statements, saying that they were under valued, going after judge engoron. he's clearly very focused on this, chuck. the gag order thing today, does that have any -- does have have any basis or does it have

anything to do with what's going to happen next? because the case -- the arguments are closed. >> it doesn't have anything to do with the merits of the trial, and by and large, katy, evidence is now closed when mr. trump opted not to testify. his side rested. i understand both sides will make closing arguments. and then it's up to the judge to make findings because in this particular case, there is no jury. the judge is the trier of the fact. and so he will issue an opinion at some point, and it will be subject to review. so i think final determinations in this case by an appellate court in the state of new york are many many months off. the gag order remains in place. it ought to. there's no reason, no rationale for mr. trump to be allowed to criticize the judge's staff. that's not an abridgment of mr. trump's first amendment rights. there's plenty of other stuff he can and routinely does say. a merit's determination on the balance of the trial. and the penalties, by the way,

katy, again, many months off. >> the ag wants $250 million. judge engoron is also considering whether to bar donald trump and his family from ever doing business here in new york again. the place where they made their name, he could still do business in other states, but it would certainly be a very major blow to stop him from doing business here. after all, there are so many billions with his name on it here, and he has his name invested in the city. >> ken dilanian, lisa rubin, chuck rosenberg, i almost called you chuck scarboro, an anchor in new york city. thank you so much for joining us. coming up, what changes could come to the u.s. border, and are they workable? one dhs official tells nbc news some of the policies being debated by the senate could quote, break the border. plus, arrests in europe. police in three countries say they have stopped suspected hamas terrorists from attacking jewish institutions. and back here at home,

president biden spoke to the families of american hostages, what he told them. and rudy giuliani backs out of testifying in his defamation damages trial, leaving the defense without any witnesses to take the stand. what his lawyer admitted about giuliani's behavior in today's closing argument. we are back in 60 seconds. 0 sec. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

rudy giuliani will not testify in the $43 million defamation trial against him. his lawyer told the court today, shaye moss and ruby freeman have, quote, been through enough. joining us from outside the courthouse. justice reporter ryan reilly. what does it mean when his own lawyer tells him the two women who accused him of defaming him have been through enough? >> reporter: it's quite something. i think rudy giuliani and his lawyer aren't on the same page here really because the case his lawyer was making to the jury is

much different from what rudy's been saying outside of court, and it's been pretty clear that really rudy's lawyer cannot control his client in some ways because of the statements he has been making on the steps. we saw that yesterday with his lawyer declining to question one of the plaintiffs in the case because it would have been seen as piling on. they let that pass after the direct examination. rudy giuliani's lawyer introduced himself and that was it. today we had this reversal. his lawyer was able to get to him overnight. i think if rudy giuliani took the stand given what he actually thinks, he still is steeped in these conspiracy theories and continues to believe these sort of crazy things that he read online back in 2020. it would have gone pretty disastrously for him. i can't see a situation in which he would have stayed on script there in terms of being apologetic. he's not apologetic. he has made that clear throughout the week. >> the jury is deciding how much to award the two women. they want $43 million.

do we have any idea how long this deliberation could go? >> it's smaller than a normal jury, right, so normal juries are 12 people. this is eight. that might shorten the time a little bit. it is them spitting out numbers. they're sort of sitting in a room figuring out where they land and where they can come to a consensus on. i don't think this should take an incredible amount of time. there's not a lot of issues at stake here. all of the facts have been decided. it's putting a dollar sign next to the damages that rudy giuliani inflicted on the election workers. >> he's already in a lot of financial trouble. one of his lawyers is suing him saying he hasn't been paid. does he have the money to pay it? ryan reilly, thank you very much. coming up, what might change at the u.s. border. senate democrats are negotiating with republicans right now. could they reach a deal, and if they do, does that unlock aid to ukraine? plus, police in europe arrest suspected hamas terrorists, what we know.

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senate majority leader chuck schumer says he will delay holiday recess so that negotiations on the border can continue. republicans are demanding concessions on immigration to unlock aid to ukraine, israel and taiwan. the consequences of an immigration deal could be huge. one dhs official told nbc news

some of the changes being considered could, quote, break the border. i wonder what that means. joining us now, nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles and "washington post" senior national political correspondent and nbc news political analyst, ashley parker. what does it mean, the changes being considered potentially breaking the border? >> reporter: it really depend on your interpretation of the negotiations and exactly the difference between what's being put on the table versus what can get 60 votes in the senate pass the house. the white house and negotiators on capitol hill have talked about changes to the asylum process, the differences connected to the way portfolio is used as it relates to migrants coming over the border and ultimately being detained. there's also talk of reinstituting some of the policies connected to title 42, which of course was put in place during the pandemic, and actually codifying them into law to give the executive branch that power to sift through many of these migrants that come over the border.

but in reality, they're still pretty far apart. they don't have any paper yet. they haven't even exchanged any text. so the idea that we're at a stage here where this is anywhere near becoming a reality i think is something that we need to put into context here because the senate majority leader announced they're leaving for the weekend, they may come back on monday to have talks around this. the house is long gone. the idea that something is going to get passed before christmas is a fantasy. >> what about them coming back on monday. is the senate majority leader willing to push that back to tuesday, wednesday, thursday, maybe through next week in order to get something done, and if they do do that, as you said, the house is out, does it just sit around and collect dust until, what, january 2nd or 3rd? >> 9th. >> so when i come back to work is a lot earlier than when congress comes back to work. >> in general. that's a good measure under any circumstance, katy, and this one in particular, too. i think a lot of this is

theater. i think it's the senate majority leader showing and trying to demonstrate the democrats want to get a deal here, and are willing to stick around and try and make that happen, and there's no doubt that having them physically here makes the negotiations a whole lot easier than if they move out to different parts of the country, but, you know, unless they have something tangible to vote on, the idea that you're going to have 100 senators back in washington next week is really not based on any kind of reality. you know, they may have nominations that they're going to push forward. there could be resolutions on things that they would allow senators to vote on. if it's not something that the republican senators care that much about, they likely will not come back just for the sake of coming back. in terms of the house, their bar in terms of what they're going to pass is so much higher than what 60 senators may be willing to do. i talked to one republican congressman as he was leaving today, is there any chance you would come back.

he said absolutely no chance whatsoever. this is fast becoming a january conversation. and the more it becomes a january conversation, the more difficult it becomes because they come back january 9th and january 14th or 15th is when they run out of money in terms of the overall spending. this is going to be a difficult task to start the beginning of 2024. >> talking about the difficulty. senator john thune at the white house has been involved with the senate. why is the white house not going directly to speaker mike johnson. after all, it's going to have to go through him eventually, why not go directly there and then to the senate. wouldn't that be a faster way to negotiate? >> president biden, if you look at how the white house has been handling this with the senate has been maintaining the posture that he has since he became president through all legislation, which is his white house prefers to play a hand, to be involved, but to let the senators be senators. and it's interesting because

there's criticism early on. people sort of expected president biden, a former senator, to really get his hands dirty in the legislative muck making, but there seemed to be at the time reporting that biden also as a former senator remembered what it was like to be a senator when the white house came in and tried to jam things down their throats. the white house is playing a role. they are involved, but in some ways for something as intractable and complicated as immigration, they believe it makes sense to not necessarily take the lead until a deal is reached. >> let me ask you about the pressure the white house is facing on this dole. there's talk about the white house readopting title 42, which was that trump-era policy that says that they can just refuse to grant asylum hearings and send people back to mexico. that would be quite a big deal to reinstate that. why would the white house be open to it? >> just from the politics side of this, the white house is facing sort of a dilemma, which

is the one thing that everyone can agree on with immigration is that the system is broken. when i covered congress in 2013, i covered an immigration bill that failed because the system was broken then. it was broken when obama was a senator. it was broken when george w. bush was president. so there's a recognition that it needs to get fixed and the challenge president biden is facing is that on the one hand, he has the congressional hispanic caucus. he has immigration groups and advocates who believed he was going to be a much better ally than someone like former president trump who are furious, who are calling this new policy that it seems like he might be open to, title 42 on steroids and then there was also the fact that, again, the border is broken, immigration is a problem, and that republicans are making a political issue for president biden. any year you can go back there there are always ads, scary, dark ads about immigration. and that sort of fear is a

political problem for him, and the immigration is also to be clear an actual problem for the entire country, democratic and republican. >> it is a big problem in democratic cities, democratic mayors, governors, saying, listen, we don't have enough money to support the number of migrants coming in. and congress needs to be getting on shortening the time before migrants can start to work, the six-month delay before they can work means they've got nowhere to go, and they're being sheltered in the cities on the city's dime instead of allowing them to make money while they are here waiting for their asylum claims. it doesn't make sense. let me ask you quickly about the other pressures the president is facing, i mean, ukraine aid, there's a lot of pressure among senate democrats and house democrats to get ukraine that aid. there's israel aid, everybody in congress, basically. not everyone, but almost everyone wants the aid to go through. how does the white house feel about that stuff, also taiwan?

>> well, ukraine aid, for instance, is something that president biden feels deeply removed from politics that he thinks is incredibly important, and he's made that clear, and he did comment recently that, you know, he does not want to deeply tie ukraine funding aid to a bunch of far right border policies. he basically came out and publicly said, that's inappropriate, and that's unacceptable, and you were asking before about, okay, this has to go through the senate, and then it has to get to the house. ukraine aid is an area that is going to be a tension point, even between republicans that is another hurdle, president biden and the republican party have to deal with. you have senators on both sides, not everyone, but who believe ukraine aid is important. when you get down to republican members in the house is where there is a lot more skepticism about how much ukraine aid they think is necessary. how much they're willing to go, and what sort of far more

stringent border and immigration requirements they would need to take a vote like that. >> a lot of people in the house aligned with president trump, and president trump doesn't exactly think vladimir putin is doing a bad job generally speaking. ashley parker, thank you very much. ryan nobles, thank you. joining us now, the aclu's immigrants rights project deputy director, lee gallart. it's good to see you. it's been a little while. >> thanks, katy. >> how do you see what's playing out in the senate right now, what's playing out on capitol hill in terms of immigration? why do you think it would be disastrous to compromise? >> we are very concerned. these are not just changes to the system, this is a fundamental reorienting of america's relationship to immigration. let me point out two places where the white house is signaling they would be okay. that's a fancy name for any ice officer can walk up to someone to say show me your papers and decide if you haven't been here

two years or not. if that person hasn't been traveling with their papers, they can then be detained and deported without any review within 48 hours based on a supervisor's signature. no one should doubt that that's exactly what the law is. the administration will tell you that's what the law does. they may claim they're not signaling it. we are hearing they are signal asking they are okay with it. the only president who has tried that is president trump. we went to court. we stalled it. president biden came in and said he wouldn't do it again. i mean, think about what that would mean in latino immigrant communities. people constantly worried people are going to come up to them and say show me your papers in the middle of the country. the other place the administration is signaling is title 42, exactly what your guests have pointed out. title 42 means no asylum. that means you're christian, you're jewish, you say you're being persecuted on your

religion, no asylum. title 42 was extreme, at least it was supposed to be temporary. we're talking about permanently implementing that. people need to understand how fundamental that is for the united states now to say we will not provide a safe haven for people fleeing danger. >> do you think there's a way to fix what's happening at the border? there are a lot of people coming over, and there are cities across the country and states that say we cannot handle it. is there a way to streamline and fix it so we can handle and properly screen the people who are coming through? >> i'm so glad you asked that. absolutely. saying the border is closed will not stem the tide. when people are desperate, i know from experience, from experts, people are going to come if they're desperate. the administration put out a rule to streamline, not close, but they never implemented. they said they didn't have the none, and i think they thought it didn't sound tough enough. it would shorten the deadlines, put asylum officers at the border, and streamline the process. that's exactly what we have been

calling for. no one is saying the system doesn't need fixing. but to say no more asylum. that is an unbelievable thing for president biden to do. >> what about, i mean, what i mentioned a moment ago, mayor adams here in the city has talked about this. the six-month wait before migrants who have claimed asylum can start working? >> absolutely, that needs to be done. when you talk to these people, they want to work. they are desperate to work and to support themselves. >> they clearly are. here in the city they're walking up and down the subway selling candy to make a few dollars. >> absolutely. and every economic expert is saying we need people to do jobs, and so those are fixes. what it doesn't sound like is toughness for people. president biden is not going to win a toughness fight with president trump. it's going to come down to a political miscalculation, where

no matter he does, he's going to get bashed for immigration. >> it's a problem when you can't talk about a fundamental issue without black and white, bad, good, wrong. it's more complicated than the politics, and certainly for those 30-second campaign ads you see during political seasons. >> exactly. >> good to have you. >> thanks, katy. why was vladimir putin so happy today at his yearly news conference, and what made him take questions for four straight hours? but first, terror arrests in europe. what police are saying about threats to jewish institutions, and who they say they have arrested. they say they have arrested exvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. known for following your dreams.

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there's breaking news out of europe. police in the netherlands, denmark and germany have arrested seven people, including four suspected members of hamas, for allegedly planning attacks on jewish institutions. a hamas official has denied links to the suspects, according to reuters. there's increased security across europe and the united states as israel continues its war against hamas in gaza. even as families of hostages beg prime minister benjamin netanyahu for another cease fire. they are demanding israeli officials break the deadlock in negotiations, and they're asking for an explanation. israel's channel 13 reported that masad chief visit qatar to jump start negotiations was

blocked by prime minister's benjamin netanyahu's war cabinet. nbc news has not confirmed the reporting and israeli officials did not comment on the reports when asked by nbc news. joining us now are the parents of one of the eight americans still being held hostage. rachel goldberg, and john polan spoke with president biden yesterday to discuss their son hirsch who was taken by hamas on october 7th. thank you for being here. i know it's been excruciating. can you give us a little bit of insight into what you talked about with president biden yesterday, and what he told you? >> sure. so yesterday was actually our second meeting with president biden, the first meeting was on october 13th, six days into this saga. and the message from that day and including until yesterday has been consistent, and we feel tremendous support from president biden, from secretary of state blinken, from the

entire u.s. administration, from congress. 30 americans were killed on october 7th. and 12 were taken hostage. eight remain hostage. this is an issue that americans get behind regardless of what side of the aisle, they don't want to see americans as victims of terror. and we feel that support. we thank the administration and the american people for support. of course now we're hungry for action. we really do appreciate the support. >> do you have a sense of where hersh is being held? do you think the administration has any idea of it and whether he's okay? >> this has been a huge point of contention that for 69 days there has not been one international aid organization on planet earth that has gone to check on any of the what originally were 240 hostages from 30 different nations who were from five different

religions and spanning 87 years, the youngest being ten months old and the oldest, an 87-year-old holocaust survivor, and none of the families had any information about their loved ones. we personally happen to know because there was hamas video that surfaced of hersh having his left arm below the elbow blown off, and he was being put by gunpoint on to a hamas pickup truck, so we knew grievously injured. but many people don't know anything about their loved ones, and for 69 days, we have not known anything. >> i think your composure is absolutely incredible. can i ask about prime minister benjamin netanyahu, have you spoken to him? what have you told him? what do you think he should be doing now? >> we have had a couple of meetings with prime minister

netanyahu. prime minister netanyahu has been saying that the israeli administration has two goals here, one is to significantly diminish the threats to israeli citizens from hamas, and the other is to bring home hostages. he has said they are equal goals. we are concerned there is discussion going on about whether israeli officials could be allowed to negotiate now. if these are truly two equal roles, we say negotiate 24 hours a day, seven days a wee wherever in the world the negotiations have to happen, if bring home the hostages, that is what we are hoping to see. we are full trust, but we need them to be able to do their work, and do it all day every day. >> do you think what's happening right now, the moves that prime minister netanyahu and his war cabinet are making, i know they're going to try to root out

hamas, justifiably so. do you think the way they're doing it is making israel safer? >> it's a big question. i will say that of course we feel terrible when we see suffering among any innocent civilians anywhere in the world, including in gaza. the images that we see are heart wrenching. i do understand, though, that this has been an attack of really epic proportions, what happened on october 7th. it's the equivalent of 40,000 americans being killed in one morning. so action was required. we're not politicians. we're not military strategists. it's hard for us to come up on the details of what's happening. we would like it to be wrapped up soon and peacefully so that all of us in the region could move forward as needed and all live in peace and all parents can rest easy that their kids will be safe and secure. >> yeah. and so you can get your son

back. he's 23. >> and we can get our son back today. >> rachel and jon, thank you very much. i so admire your composure in what must be truly miserable moments you're living every single day, every moment. thank you for coming on and talking to us and sharing your message. we appreciate it. >> thank you so much for having us. >> of course. >> and we'll be right back. ght k

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quote, they're getting everything as freebies, but these freebies can run out at some point, and it looks like they're already starting to run out. that was russian president vladimir putin sounding very confident at his end-of-year news conference that lasted four hours. joining us from moscow, international correspondent keir simmons. how much of what we heard today, the mood that vladimir putin was in had to do with what we saw on capitol hill on tuesday with president zelenskyy's not so warm welcome? >> reporter: that's a great question. it's a great quote to start with, katy. we don't know. right? reality is that that happened just a few days ago, we told, by the spokesman watching closely, president zelenskyy's trip to washington and then you had president putin appearing at this marathon news conference today and you can only describe it with one word --

uncompromising. take a listen to what he said. >> translator: peace will come when we reach our goals, as you have mentioned, and coming back to the goals they remain unchanged. so we have other opportunities, to come to terms heavily compellingly. >> reporter: what he says, remain unchanged about the goals there, k.t. he means unchanged since russia launched its full-scale invasion against ukraine two years ago. prepared to talk, but not compromise. >> all right. keir, talk about eva gerrishkawits. talk, did vladimir putin talk

about them today? >> he did. maybe one place a little compromise, but it's hard to know. he was asked by honestly, a brave question by a "new york times" reporter who got a chance to ask him this question about that report that, when it came to evan gershkovich, the "wall street journal report" here is accused of espionage, or pretrial detention here in moscow and denies it utterly, so does his newspaper. the u.s. citizen in jail here again, actually, denies it. asked about reports that might be a deal offered by the u.s., rejected by russia. take a listen to what he said about that. >> translator: well, it's not that we decline to send him home. no. we want to come to terms and these agreements much be mutually acceptable, and should be okay for both of the parties, and we have contacts with our

american partners on that. we're in touch with them. >> reporter: so once again there, very good to know, as i say, whether this is hope for the families, for example, because we don't know what the offer was from the u.s. and we don't know what the demands are from russia. clearly, president putin is doubling down on all aspects of this and remember, president zelenskyy at the same time saying he won't give up until russia goes back to the 2014 international-recognized borders and russia refuses that. a picture of a continued conflict, honestly. >> can i ask about alexei navalny, the russian opposition leader who's been jailed. lawyers said couldn't find him. didn't appear for one of his court hearing the other day. do we know where he is? didn't putin mention him? >> reporter: yeah. no. by the way, he doesn't mention

by name even if you ask him, president putin. no. he didn't mention him and know, we haven't heard from him now according to his team for nine days. an interesting point, k.t. he may have gone missing. we don't know why. may have gone missing because of this week with the news conference and with president putin saying he's going to stand for election next year in march, and i think that just tells you something about, really, although president putin looks confident, how much pressure he is also under as what he calls his special military operation continues to ukraine. >> keir simmons, thank you very much much. reporting from russia. and is this what a soft landing feels like? the stock market going wild the past couple days. an update on how the economy looks in a moment. don't go anywhere. go anywhere.

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yesterday. federal reserve chair jerome powell signaled after 18 months of hikes, he was ready to pivot. joining us now, nbc news business and data reporter brian cheung. so is this what it feels like? >> for what it's worth, because the stock market is up doesn't necessarily mean the economy is in great shape. right? what it's worth, we were concerned in 2023 we might have gone into recession. if you told a lot of economists going in this year, federal reserve raising rates. point, deliberately slow this economy. could send us into recession, which would look like spiking unemployment rates, inflation not going down as fast. instead inflation has gone down and unemployment rate is essentially near over 50-year lows. both facets not in recession now. federal reserve chairman saying might be able to cut interest rates next year and get us into that soft landing. talking about the plane analogy, still in initial descent. haven't hit the tarmac. >> got it. still could have a hard landing. >> yep. >> in terms of hikes. 18 months of hikes.

no hikes since july. right? >> right. >> no hikes since july? >> right. >> what did he say when talking about maybe even declining interest rates next year? >> i mean the fed chairman saying depends how the data comes in. couching it like that. when you look at the story of the federal reserve raising interest rates, been on pause, you mentioned, since latter part of the summer. they've been saying, okay. we know borrowing costs are higher. seeing that in the form of mortgage rates at 8%. come down a little. credit card borrowing rates are really high now. goal of getting inflation down. now at 3%, certainly good news. >> stock market very happy about it. brian cheung, thank you very much. that is going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. i'm jen psaki in for nicolle wallace. right now a