>> reporter: yes. beyond the specific dates, you want to make sure your packages are sealed, but something you can do is you can put the label, the shipping label, the return address on the inside in case your package or box gets damaged along the way. and then one other thing, this is going to seem pretty obvious and simple, but triple check the entire address where you're sending it to, particularly the zip codes. even if the rest of the address is accurate if the zip code is not, it may get sent to someone else. you'll be spreading christmas cheer and joy, but maybe not to the right person. >> those reminders are helpful, especially with how busy it can be this time of year. that does it for us today. hope you have a wonderful weekend. see you back here monday, same time, same place. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. happy friday. yasmin vossoughian picks up the coverage right now. good morning.

it is 11:00 a.m. in the east, 8:00 a.m. pacific. right now in atlanta, we are awaiting a decision on whether mark meadows, trump's former chief of staff, can move his election interference case to federal court. what it would mean if this request is granted. also, we're keeping our eye on the federal courthouse in washington, d.c., where a jury is deliberating. how much rudy giuliani is going to have to pay to two poll workers he defamed after the 2020 election. then to the border where we go to a tiny town in arizona that is fast becoming the new epicenter of the migrant crisis. meanwhile, on capitol hill, senate negotiators are work on a border policy delaying their holiday break. are they close to making a deal? overseas, reports of a second day that parts of gaza are under a telecommunications and internet blackout as israeli prime minister bibi netanyahu declares, quote, nothing will stop us.

hey, everybody. good to see you. we're going to begin with the breaking news from georgia, a federal appeals court is now considering wheth case against mark meadows should be transferred from state court to federal court. meadows argues he was acting as then president donald trump's chief of staff, when the alleged criminal conduct occurred. but a federal judge ruled in september that meadows was ng on behalf of the trump campaign and not the federal government. meadows is one of 19 people, including the former president, who were charged with conspireing to overturn the 20 presidential election in georgia, four have pled guilty and are cooperating so far with prosecutors. four others, co-defendants, have also sought to remove their cases from state court to federal court. so far, their efforts have also been denied. want to bring in nbc news correspondent blayne alexander, and katie phang, host of the

katie phang show and msnbc legal contributor. welcome. thank you for joining us on this. i know you've been inside the courtroom all morning. walk us through it, what have you been seeing? >> reporter: oral arguments were very brief, only 15 minutes for each side. the question is whether former white house chief of staff mark meadows will be able to change the venue for the case against him in fulton county. he's hoping to move to federal court because the jury pool for a case like that would be broader and likely a little more conservative. he's also hoping that the judges in the federal circuit will be a little more open to some of the federal immunity arguments he plans to make. he's been trying to do this since august. he appealed an unfavorable ruling from september. and he was trying to argue that all of the conduct that is at play in this indictment here in georgia, most of it occurred while he was chief of staff for former president donald trump and hence federal courts are the appropriate venue. prosecutors are arguing, no, he's a former federal official

at this point. the acts he's accused of are far outside the bounds of what a chief of staff would be doing and he was electionering and it should stay in the fulton county court. >> what are the expectations when it comes to a decision? >> there is no timeline when the judge could decide. when we look at the first crack at this, judge jones took several weeks to issue his decision. we could see a decision anytime within the next few weeks. but when it comes to timeline, of course a lot of people are watching this closely because, remember, if this is knocked down, mark meadows does have it within his rights to appeal that decision yet again. now, remember, on the other side of all this, fani willis said she wants to start the trial in august and made it clear she wants to try all 15 remaining defendants together, have one big lump trial starting in august. when you think about the timeline, if this is, you know,

denied again if there is another appeal that could possibly have an impact on what that august trial date looks like, some questions around what that timeline becomes then. >> a couple of things that i want to walk through i want to walk through some of the arguments being made in court today, that tamar laid out for us and this could be heading toward the supreme court. walk us through, first, some of the arguments being made and how they sit with you. >> yes, so, the primary argument that we heard the judges ask, remember, when you do these appellate court arguments, you want to see what the judges are asking, because it kind of focuses the issues on what they're concerned the most about. the thing we heard the most was how can mark meadows possibly claim that all of the actions that are alleged in the indictment, everything that he did was tied to his duties and his federal office as chief of staff to the white house. and then president donald trump. and the reason why that's such a critical part of the analysis is if you're trying to seek removal from state court to federal court, in order to seek the

protections and/or the ability to do so, the conduct that is being alleged in the indictment against you, the criminal conduct being alleged against you in that indictment must be related to your job at the time. the evidentiary hearing, this is an important point, appeals courts can only rely upon the evidence that was presented on the lower court. the only evidence that mark meadows advanced was his own testimony. that's it. and he basically said, credibly or not, everything that i did when i was the white house chief of staff fell within the duties as the chief of staff as a federal officer. nobody believes that. the state of georgia didn't believe it. the trial judge didn't believe it and you can hear the skepticism from the appellate court judges now. that's the critical one issue. the second major legal issue is this, when we look at statutes, we want to look at the construction or interpretation of them. what does that mean? you look at the plain language of the statute, look how it is put together. right now there is missing the idea in this statute, the language, that says that a

former federal official can remove the language in another subsection says current officials can remove. so, one of the justices -- the judges was saying, hey, maybe congress needs to get involved in this if they intended for somebody like mark meadows to be able to invoke this removal thing. that's the other second major legal issue at play today. >> before we get to the issue of the supreme court, and whether this is going to end up there, tamar, bring us in on your reporting as to what will happen if, in fact, mark meadows loses this appeal and what he does next. is there a possibility he could be taking a plea deal? >> well, at this point we have no evidence to suggest that prosecutors have offered any sort of plea deal to team meadows. there is a couple of different defendants at the very top of this alleged scheme, including rudy giuliani, former president donald trump, attorney john eastman, who as far as we understand have not been offered potential plea deals. i find it unlikely that will change. at this very moment, proceedings remain in fulton county superior

court. mark meadows is part of the 15 who are currently still there and until the federal court waves it, it stays in fulton superior court. but should mark meadows lose, it is possible he could appeal and ask for all of the judges who sit on the federal court of appeals to weigh in en banc or appeal this to the supreme court. we're expecting this is not the last time we hear these arguments. >> so, katie, talk about the supreme court question here, which is essentially everything that i have been reading in analysis about this thing, it seems like mark meadows is dead set on getting this moved to federal court. and he's going to take this all the way to the supreme court to make that happen. if, in fact, he loses this appeal, is that where you see this going? >> well, to tamar's point, he could try to do the en banc, meaning all of the judges together on the 11th circuit court of appeals hears the arguments again or try to get it to the supreme court. as we have seen in the other case, the supreme court has to grant the ability for that case

to be heard. not just automatically going to be heard. so because of that, it will be up to the supreme court to decide you need four supreme court justices to decide if they want to take up a case or not. it could be an issue of importance, so much so that the supreme court says, yeah, we want to do it, but there is a couple of other hurdles he has to go in. and somebody is watching this very quickly is donald trump. donald trump never did a notice of removal, never tried to remove, i think he's carefully watching to see what happens to mark meadows to figure out whether or not he wants to try it himself. >> i want you to remind folks, we talked about this, but i think it is important for folks to really understand why mark meadows is so dead set on getting this moved to a federal court and why his team, his attorneys, he himself as well, feel as if it would be more favorable to him versus staying in the fulton county court system. >> absolutely. i think tamar touched on it very well. the first thing is the federal immunity argument, saying that hey because i was acting as white house chief of staff, that's a federal role, anything

i do underneath that unburrellia umbrella falls under that. when you talk about many things of this nature, politics comes into play. if he were to keep this case in fulton county, we're talking about jurors who are fulton county citizens. fulton county is a reliably blue county in georgia, a democratic stronghold. those are the people that would be hearing his case. if it is moved to federal court, you're talking about the entire northern district of georgia, which includes a lot of red counties. so, the thinking would go that he would be arguing before a more friendly jury pool if it was in federal court. the other thing, as well, and something that is an interesting logistical change, in fulton county, it is going to be live streamed. you're going to see it on tv, live streamed on youtube. none of that is the case in federal court. if it does go to trial, if it is in federal court, mark meadows would likely want to be avoiding those tv cameras.

and that's something he could do if it were tried in federal court rather than fulton county superior court. >> i touched briefly on the plea deal. you got a hold of some of the apology letters part of the plea deal, three individuals. sidney powell's apology letter reading this, pretty short, brief, to the point. i apologize for my actions in connection with the events in coffee county. i wonder if there were any parameters given by -- in this plea deal to these individuals with these apology letters and what they needed to include. >> i can't speak to any individual instructions that the d.a.'s office might have passed along to these defendants. but i actually interviewed d.a. fani willis earlier this week and she said most important to her, way beyond how long it might be, is that these folks expressed remorse for what they did, that they apologize to the people they had done wrong. the d.a. compared it to people in a relationship with one another, somebody does something

that upsets the other, you need to apologize in order to make it right. that was the d.a.'s intent of all of this. i've seen plenty of critics over the last 18 hours or so saying they don't feel that remorse as part of some of these letters from sidney powell and ken chesebro. scott hall, the bail bondsman his letter was longer. he expresses remorse in a little -- many more words than some of the others. and, of course, it is very different from jenna ellis who read her letter while she was behind the defense table in front of judge mcafee back in october and was crying and saying how she regretted what she did, she regrets becoming a part of the trump campaign in the aftermath of the election. >> and in comparison to sidney powell, scott hall's says i did not mean to violate any law, i now realize i did and accept responsibility for my actions. katie, precedent here, do they usually put parameters on things like this, wriing letters?

>> no, they don't. i found these letters to be wholly underwhelming and insufficient, but the most important part of the plea deal for these defendants, they're testifying truthfully when the cases go to trial and the proffers, the recorded proffers they gave, very detailed and very incriminating, that was more important than the i'll call them apology letters in quotes because i don't think they were apologies. >> thank you. appreciate it. up next, the biden administration urging israel to scale back its massive ground campaign in gaza. but what happens if israel refuses. later, millions of dollars at stake for rudy giuliani and his defamation damages case. we're going to get an update from outside the courthouse. we're back in 60 seconds. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." we'll be right back. watching " diaz-balart reports. we'll be right back. blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn.

14 past the hour. jake sullivan today visiting officials in the west bank, in israel, as the u.s. urges israel to transition to a new phase of its war in gaza.

it is coming as we are getting new information about the type of munition israel has been using on gaza. richard engel has a look at where things stand today. >> reporter: as israel continues to attack gaza, with the full force of its military to overthrow hamas, two u.s. officials tell nbc news the biden administration wants israel to transition from a high intensity military campaign to a targeted one, focusing on intelligence driven commando raids and more targeted strikes. national security adviser jake sullivan in israel today saying it is up to the israeli government to decide when and how. >> there will be a transition to another phase of this war, one that is focused in more precise ways on targeting the leadership and on intelligence-driven operations. >> reporter: israel's defense minister has suggested the israeli military still needs months of high intensity combat

to clear out hamas. president biden weighing in thursday. >> i want them to be focused on how to save civilian lives. not stop going after hamas, but be more careful. >> reporter: the israeli government says it is doing all it can to protect civilians in gaza, with prior notifications of strikes by phone or leaflet. as a new u.s. intelligence estimate says of the 29,000 bombs israel has dropped on gaza, nearly half were unguided, so-called dumb bombs which are less precise. this refugee camp was hit by israeli strikes overnight. our camera crew arrived moments after one attack. and recorded as the wounded start emerging. children carried down the narrow alley, some eventually making their way to a hospital. this child shaking uncontrollably in shock. arab and u.s. officials in the

middle east tell us they fear israel could defeat hamas and gaza. but make more enemies in the process. yesterday, authorities in germany, denmark, and the netherlands arrested seven suspects, including four described as long-term hamas members. they're accused of plotting to attack jewish institutions across europe as the u.s. is also on high alert for terror threats elevated after the war began. >> and richard engel is joining us now from jericho in the west bank. great to talk to you. i want to talk about this fracture that we're seeing between the united states and israel. and hearing jake sullivan there essentially saying this war will move on to another phase. israelis, though, saying it is going to go on for a very long time. talk to us more about what we heard from jake sullivan on the ground there. >> reporter: so, it is unclear how much of a fracture this really is because the u.s. is still saying and the national

security adviser, first thing he said is the united states is not imposing anything on israel, the u.s. isn't dictating terms. it is just the americans' advice this is how they would like to see this move to a different phase that is more targeted. israel also talks about moving to a phase and there is no -- there has been no public discussion of a timeline. and there haven't been any dramatic steps that would pressure israel. the u.s. has vetoed u.n. security council resolution calling for a cease-fire, there is still american weapons coming here, there is still american warships, protecting this country. we're hearing some very gentle advice at this stage, not necessarily real pressure. and where i am right now, you mentioned that i am in jericho, this is in the -- in the west bank. where i am specifically is on the grounds of a university. and this has been turned into a refugee center for palestinians

who are working inside israel, and then got caught here, got stuck here when the october 7th attacks happened. these are all people who had been checked out by the israeli government, they would not have been given a permission to come from gaza to work in israel unless they had a deep background check and all of them showed me their documents, with their photos on them from the israeli authority. and there are about 200 authorities, and there are about 200 people, all men, in this facility right now. and i've been going room to room, talking to some of them, you can see people are kind of lingering around, a lot of laundry, and about 150 of them, according to the director, have their -- their homes have been destroyed. so they have no place to go back to. and he thinks about 85, 90% of the people here have lost at least one relative during this campaign to israeli bombings. these are people whose

backgrounds have been checked. i spoke to one man, he lost nine of his members of his family including all of his children, except for one and then i asked him what about the one, what do you want to do? he started crying and said all he wants to do is go back to gaza and see his one remaining son. and another person lost 25 members of their family here. each room in this facility has a tragedy. and they will tell you, we were trying to do it correctly. we are not hamas, we have nothing do with hamas. we have been checked, we have been checked, we're working inside israel, why did they have to come and kill our families. so a lot of frustration here, a lot of sadness for people who feel they got caught up in a fight that they didn't start, that they had no part of, and that they wanted to see end as soon as possible. >> richard engel, thank you so much, appreciate it. i want to bring in aaron david miller, senior fellow at the carnegie endowment for international peace.

as always, great to talk to you. you just heard richard's reporting from on the ground. what is the u.s. to do when in fact they're saying they're not imposing or dictating a timeline? these are merely suggestions. they want more targeted strikes in the next few weeks and not these broad strikes that we have been seeing from the israeli military since october 7th. and yet israel and the israeli government does not necessarily seem receptive to that. do they move to dictating or trying to impose more of a timeline, and if so, how do they do that? >> thank you for having me. one reality is clear, and i think it is important to start there, no american president likes fighting with an israeli prime minister. privately, frankly, certainly not publicly.

it is messy, it is distracting, it is politically costly at times, and usually it is counterproductive. i think that's absolutely the case with joe biden, who among american presidents has a deep sense of regard for israel. i don't see a fracture or breach here. i think the israelis will make a virtue out of necessity sometime in january there will be a transition. i watched very carefully and listened to what jake sullivan said and a very long interview with israel's channel 12. his remarks appear to say -- i think he concluded by saying the discussions ended in, quote, a good place. and, yeah, i think there are differences over those tactics and the day after. but i think the administration has a -- is a really great stake in not accentuating the differences, but in working with the israelis in order to reach conclusions. final point, i do think the

israelis will make a transition, precisely to the kind of campaign that the administration is arguing for. but i also understand and, again, jake sullivan acknowledged it, the president does so implicitly every time he talks about the subject. israel's military activity in gaza is going to go on for months. and a much reduced level because the objective that the president shares, he said it again in those remarks to his campaign, is to end hamas' sovereignty in gaza. i don't think there is daylight during israel and the u.s. on that issue. >> if you feel like they're going to make this transition when it comes to the ground war, then what about the transition and thought when it comes to what happens the day after, which we have been talking about since the beginning of this conflict. it seems as if there is some daylight when it comes to the day after in that the united states has voiced wanting a two-state solution in the day after this conflict is over, with the palestinian authority eventually having authority over

gaza. israel, prime minister bibi netanyahu's government does not seem on board with that. do you foresee a transition to that thought within the israeli government? >> a lot of uncertainty obviously about what is going to happen at the day after and the day after the day after. i think you're right. if there is a fight in their intentions it going to come not in the midst of this conflict, but it will come relating to issues regarding should the palestinian authority weaken and can it be revitalized? can the israelis or anyone else trust mahmoud abbas or a future leader to deal with radical moments within the society and it is going to come for sure on the issue of two states. and the administration i think is determined to make sure gaza, first, is not gaza only. it is going to be tethered to the pursuit of two states. whether you have a negotiation or not anytime soon, i very much doubt. but there will be a battle over

this and mr. netanyahu ever conscious of his political predicament on trial for fraud, breach of trust and bribery, in jerusalem district court, now three years in, could actually be convicted if he loses power. and i think he may choose to run if in fact there is a campaign, and an election, using his opposition of the palestinian statehood and his opposition to american support for that process as well. so i think the intentions will come, but i think they'll come at a later stage. >> interesting some of the parallels that we're seeing here in this country along with what could feasibly be happening in the future and israel. aaron david miller, thank you, appreciate it. up next, we're going to head to capitol hill and see where things stand on the border negotiations. one senator working on it saying failure is not an option. plus, how one tiny arizona town has become the new epicenter of the humanitarian crisis at the

border. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." border you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports. we always thought that whatever we did here would be an emblem of what small communities can achieve. trying to give a better life to people that don't have the means to do it. si mi papá estuviera vivo, sé que él tuviera orgulloso también de vivir de esta viviendo una vida como la que estamos viviendo ahora. es electricidad aquí es salud. (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon.

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28 past the hour, everybody. this week the southern border migrant crossings continue to climb as lawmakers debate stricter immigration policies to get a foreign aid package pass. on wednesday, u.s. customs and border protection said it apprehended more than 11,000 migrants, which is near last week's record of 12,000

apprehensions. the tucson sector in arizona, which is recently closed its lukeville port of entry, was the busiest, seeing more than 3,000 undocumented crossings. and nbc's julia ainsley has the latest from lukeville, arizona. >> reporter: this is the new epicenter of the border crisis. tiny lukeville, arizona, where the number of migrants is pushing border patrol past capacity. behind me, there is a group of about 40 migrants, including young children, that were just brought in by border patrol after they called 911 because they were stranded in the desert. border agents so backed up, they're taking migrants to tucson, where they're processed and most released into the u.s. the lukeville international crossing now closed for 11 days, due to overwhelming demand on border agents from migrants. business owners say they're paying a price. >> last week we made 5,000, which is what we usually would make within an eight hour shift. >> reporter: we find places along the border wall where smugglers cut holes for

migrants, cutting through 16 times. they mark the dates here where they fixed the breaches and you can see this one was just fixed recently. u.s. and mexican officials tell nbc news one reason for the rise, mexico's border patrol equivalent is running low on funds and stopping fewer migrants. but republicans blame president biden's border policies and are demanding changes before they'll pass more funding for ukraine. this from the border patrol union. >> we need to see from this administration is they're serious about border security. when you're allowing so many individuals to come across the border, that preoccupies a lot of agents. >> reporter: president biden calls gop proposals extreme. migrants tell us they're desperate. we are tired, i had to carry my daughter, so we could keep going, said jacqueline from ecuador. and this man said, we knew this was going to be hard, we do it for our families. >> doing it for our families. thanks to julia ainsley for that report. to capitol hill, where lawmakers are sending mixed messages on where things stand

when it comes to negotiating border policy. all of this as the future of critical aid to u.s. allies hangs in the balance. senate majority leader chuck schumer delayed the holiday recess to allow more time for negotiating, but senator lindsey graham sounded less optimistic about a possible deal. >> i look forward to voting no to a bad deal next week. i hope they bring up an immigration proposal that doesn't do the job to see if i'll vote no. i'll gladly vote no to a bad deal next week. i am not going to be pressed to do something that doesn't make sense. >> joining us now, nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake and former republican congressman carlos curbelo from florida, an msnbc political analyst. garrett, who is closer to the truth here? is there room for negotiation to get to a deal? schumer and/or lindsey graham, he doesn't seem very optimistic anything is going to get done. >> reporter: i think there is absolutely room to negotiation

here, but i think one thing to understand is republicans don't feel the same urgency that democrats do to get this done by christmas or anytime in an urgent future here. they don't think putin is going to roll across europe if it takes them to the end of january to solve a problem that has really been building up for decades. that's the u.s. border. i think republicans feel like they have time to work on this. and they think they have got a little bit of negotiating muscle kind of on their side. i can tell you, as we speak, dhs secretary alejandro mayorkas is on the hill now meeting with staffers from republican and democratic offices, meeting with some of the lawmakers involved in these negotiations. this is a serious process right here, but it is not a simple one. chris murphy, the lead democratic negotiator here, said this is a more complicated issue to negotiate right now than the deal he struck just last year on guns. that was another issue that took more than a decade to have any measurable progress on. so, this is sticking, it is messy, it is not going to get done before christmas, but i do think there is room to get it

done, you know, both sides are kind of able to stay in the room. >> congressman, can you draw on what garrett just talked about? i want to use some of the terminology he used, i think it is important. it is sticky, it is messy, it was more difficult as chris murphy said to get something like this done than it was for bipartisan gun legislation, which we know how difficult that is, especially in this congress. walk us through why it is so sticky, why it is so messy. >> well, yasmin, immigration has been an issue that both sides have exploited for political gain and in many cases it has been convenient for both sides to not make any progress on immigration policy. but, we're in a different stage right now. obviously the numbers at the southwest border are staggering. obviously this is a weak point for the biden administration, the president ranks pretty low, voters rank him pretty low on immigration policy. and republicans do feel like they need to deliver some kind

of win for their base on immigration so there is a bit of an alignment of political interest here with the biden administration needing to show those middle of the road voters they're taking this issue seriously and republicans wanting to deliver for their base. i agree with garrett, i think they will strike a deal, but certainly republicans feel like they have time on their side, like they have more leverage here and they're going to push democrats to get as much as possible whent comes to reforming asylum laws that make it easier for people to come into the country. >> so, caos, here's what punch bowl news isointing out. if you think trump is going to resist taking shots at any agreement that funds ukraine and includes modest border or immigration policy changes, you are mistaken. this is trump's party. so, even if they're able to strike a deal here, right, if republicans say, okay, we're ready to go on this thing, but then the former president comes out against it, is it doa? >> well, that is going to be an issue in the house. we have seen senate republicans move in spite of donald trump's

comments. we know senator mcconnell isn't particularly sensitive to donald trump's statements or opinions. house republicans, that's an entirely different story. i don't think trump will disrupt the negotiation process in the senate. when it comes time for the house to act, that's when he will probably put speaker johnson in a difficult position, speaker johnson is going to feel that squeeze between those centrist members that want to see some progress on these important policy questions, immigration, ukraine, israel. and those freedom caucus members who take a hard-line and refuse to compromise. that's when we're going to see donald trump's influence and we'll see if it is decisive or not. speaker johnson has expressed a willingness to fund ukraine and openness to whatever immigration deal comes out of the senate. but when it comes time to make that decision, it will be tough for him. >> carlos curbelo, thank you. garrett haake, thank you as well. up next, we're going live to the courthouse with the three things the jury needs to decide on as they deliberate in rudy

giuliani's defamation case. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ (carolers) ♪ iphone 15 pro, your husband deserves it! ♪ only pay for what you need. (mom) carolers? to tell me you want a new iphone? a better plan is verizon. (vo) it's your last chance to turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon. children are the greatest joy and our best hope for a better future.

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welcome back. it is 40 past the hour. jurors deliberating right now just how much in damages former trump lawyer rudy giuliani is going to be ordered to pay for defaming two georgia election workers. it is coming after the jury heard from ruby freeman and shaye moss, who are mother and daughter. they described being terrorized by false claims they committed fraud in the 2020 election. freeman said she was scarred, scared, i should say, to use her name in public and wore a mask to hide her identity. joining us now, ryan reilly outside the courthouse and lisa rubin on set with me. we're in wait and see mode as we await the jury's decision here on damages. walk us through what they are considering. >> so, the jury is basically getting together in a room with eight of them trying to land on these numbers. so there is three numbers they have to consider in connection with this case.

the damages that the plaintiffs are asking for are 24 million each, saying that's how much it would cost essentially to repair the damage that was caused to these two individuals who were defamed by rudy giuliani and other parties in the aftermath of the 2020 election and then they could also add punitive damages on top of that, but plaintiffs didn't ask for a spect number there. that will be more up to the jury. they're trying to land on what the right number is. they asked a question yesterday, wanting to take a closer look at the report that laid out how much this would cost to repair. but, you know, safe to say that the lives of these two individuals will never be the same again. so this is something that is probably heavily weighing on jurors as they're ultimately trying to answer that question of what money and dollar signs are to put on what rudy giuliani did here. >> you and i were talking before we came on about really how much they were affected, and i don't think the public really necessarily understands how far this went. i talked about roou ruby freema

saying she was scared, wearing a mask to hide her identity and shaye moss saying she was afraid to go outside, to be by herself. >> she still is. she talked in her testimony about basically exposure therapy. she has been in treatment for major depressive disorder for the last year and a half. one thing her therapist challenged her to do was go out by yourself, have a meal alone at a restaurant, to see if you can do it. and she basically broke down on the stand, describing how she almost didn't get through it, but for the generosity of someone sitting next to her at the bar who talked her ear off about the sackler family. but the other thing that strikes me from her testimony is she tried to get another job at a chick-fil-a and basically during her interview, the guy interviewing her turned around to a computer, showed her a picture of herself with big words across it saying fraud. so her plea was i can't be employed even at a chick-fil-a now, having lost my job in election work.

>> if he is made to pay out $48 million to these two women, he does not have those assets. what does he do? >> he doesn't have those assets. so, you know that his apartment is currently on the market for about $6.1 million. here in new york. then there would likely be a fire sale of his other assets or something called a judgment lien where ruby and shaye would be able to attach other assets he has to the extent they're liquidated and used to satisfy the judgment, they might be entitled to future income streams. he has a radio show, he likely makes income from that and podcasting and other things. they will have their stakes in him and his income for some time to come if the jury awards anything close to the upper range of what we have been talking about. >> do you think we'll see a big number here? >> i think we'll see a big number. lisa, ryan, thank you. up next, everybody, what putin's top spokesperson is telling our own keir simmons

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welcome back. it is 48 past the hour. nbc news has an exclusive interview with russian leader vladimir putin's top official, who is now calling the war in ukraine just that, a war. dmitry peskov, the kremlin spokesperson, telling nbc's keir simmons that russia was open to discussions with the u.s., but on their terms. and he addressed the growing

concerns over the status of imprisoned russian opposition leader alexei navalny. from moscow, is keir simmons. good to talk to you. what more did peskov have to say to you? >> reporter: as you can tell, a wide ranging interview, yasmin, and one of the aspects that we touched on was the status of the u.s. nationals paul whelan and "wall street journal" reporter evan gershkovich, both held here, accused by russia of espionage, accusations that they utterly refute, so does the u.s. government, so does yesterday p putin said he is prepared to do a deal for those two u.s. citizens but did not say what that deal might be. i asked the kremlin spokesperson about that. >> president putin said that he

is prepared to do a deal over the wall street journal reporter evan gursky which in the u.s. national paul williams. >> the more difficult it will be to -- >> it is a notable shift. he is openly saying that we are interested in a deal. >> president is always interested in a deal. but it is a deal that presumes that interest both sides are taken into consideration. >> when we have spoken before i suggested to you that these

people are hostages. >> they are not hostages. they are in custody. they are not hostages. >> i also asked about another u.s. citizen who has also been held here in russia dmitry peskov could not give any news about that either. the way he talks there is kind of like saying we want to talk but in the right way. of course in the end the ukrainians say what is the point of talking if it has to be on your terms? >> thank you. excellent stuff. believe it or not we are one month away from the iowa caucuses. at the next how the republican candidates are upping the campaign gain plus former first lady makes a rare public

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56 past the hour everybody. former first lady melania trump made an appearance at a national ceremony for new citizens. the ceremony is part of their bill of rights day and 25 people from 25 nations were sworn in as u.s. citizens. today marks exactly one month until the iowa caucuses and with the new hampshire primary following eight days later gop candidates are stepping up their outreach. tomorrow trump will host a rally interim, new hampshire just days after being in iowa after he says he plans to win by a large margin. we are joined by our correspondent. vaughn, i know your bags are

packed as we head into the election season. the primary is very close. what do you think the strategy is? >> former president trump will be holding a rally just down the road from where we are tomorrow in new hampshire but here today with multiple events he will be arriving here any minute. we are at a courtyard marriott and this is a difference between the ron desantis campaign and that of donald trump. he is holding a major rally. i think this is where this becomes important. you primary voted for donald trump in 2016. you voted for him for a general ejection. this go around, where is your heart? >> when you look at the polling where do you see this race going? >> hopefully turning towards desantis.

>> why not donald trump this time? >> the democrats will not let him do any ing. >> how do you describe the movement around donald trump? is that the vibe that you get from the family and friends you talk to? >> most of my family is all democrats and they absolutely hate donald trump and that seems to be the opinion of every democrat they just can't stand him. i don't think he would be able to be effective. >> and trump lost new hampshire in the general election. >> know i just don't think he'd be that affect this time going around through everybody that i've talked to think ron desantis would be better. i don't like haley. her commercials drive me crazy. >> what needs to change? >> he needs to get his name out

there more. the super pack supporting ron desantis has spent -- cut its spending. eight days after the iowa caucus is the new hampshire primary so each of these campaigns have to do doubletime. >> i have one more question. if you indulge me for a moment i am wondering if in fact he will vote for former president trump if he does not win the nomination >> if we get to the general election will you vote for donald trump in the general election? >> i will probably still write in desantis. i can vote for him this time. >> ryan, thanks.