something that happened to her 50 years ago because no young girl should be put through that. jennifer was also by the way his daughter. she saw a very different man, a loving father, and it's difficult to reconcile these two accounts. but of course my kids don't know who i am -- >> fascinating. you can watch the first two episodes of archie through britbox, which is available on major streaming platforms. jason isaacs, thank you very much for coming on the show. we do appreciate it. >> next time i will come back and tell you which you should elect and why. >> that is a tease. >> i would look forward to that. >> that does it for us, we hope you have a great weekend and we're back monday at 6 am eastern, have a great weekend. this is the katie phang show. live from miami, florida.

we have lots of news to cover and lots of questions to answer. let's get started. paying the price, a jury, rudy giuliani's peers finding him on the hook for nearly 100 and $50 million for his defamation of two georgia election workers. giuliani is vowing to a peel -- no amount of money can make up for the damage he caused with his lies. msnbc legal analyst is standing by to break down what happens next. plus, forced to flee, a texas woman who own health was at risk due to an in viable pregnancy is forced to leave the state to get an abortion. this as the conservative-leaning highest court in our country is set to weigh in again on the future of reproductive rights for the first time since overturning roe v. wade. we are going in-depth ahead. later, step-by-step, the aapi o start-up that is changing the sneaker game one step at a time.

we talk to the cofounders. >> good saturday morning to you. all i'm katie phang. a stunning defeat for the man once known as america's mayor. on friday afternoon, a federal jury in d.c. ordered former trump lawyer ally and crony, rudy giuliani, to pay a massive verdict of 100 and $48 million to mother and daughter georgia election workers, ruby freeman and shaye moss. for falsely claiming that they tried to steal the 2020 election in their state. back in august, judge meryl howell found that giuliani was liable for defamation after he repeatedly failed to turn over evidence in the case. the default judgments at the stage of the jury to determine the amount of damages owed to freeman and moss. rudy, having learned no lessons whatsoever from this trial,

when asked after the verdict if he still believed in the comments he made about the two women and whether they were truthful, he said they, were quote, support-able. mohsen freeman on the other hand we're pleased with the verdict. they say the damage from giuliani's lies has already been done. >> the flames that giuliani lit with those lies and passed to so many others to keep that flame blazing changed every aspect of our lives. money will never solve all of my problems. i can never move back into the house that i called home. i will always have to be careful about where i go and who i choose to share my name with. when i missed my home, i missed my neighbors, and i missed my name. >> so powerful. joining me now, barbara mcquade, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s. attorney, law professor at

the university of michigan school of law, and the co-host of the hashtag sisters in law podcast. barb, that's some really powerful messaging. ruby saying she misses her name. frankly, you and i would not even know about them if it weren't for donald trump, rudy giuliani and others. talk about what you think is the viability of an appeal by rudy giuliani for that verdict that came out yesterday? >> that's an interesting question because one of the things that is a bit of an obstacle to an appeal is the idea that in georgia a person has to post what is known as an appeal bond. the idea behind an appeal bond is at appeal could be filed for good faith reasons and it could also be filed for delaying the payday. so to avoid the latter, litigants are required to pay in advance and appeal bond which is usually something more than the amount of the judgment

so that it's there in case there was a finality on the case. i don't know that rudy giuliani is going to get an appeal bond. he might not be able to do it at all. when remedy he does have available is what is known as remitted or, which is filing a motion with the trial court handled the case to say that this amount is excessive. but even if there is some reduction in this amount, we are still talking about tens of millions of dollars here. >> barb, let's be clear. if he sought remitted or, this motion by him to reduce the amount of the jury verdict, judge beryl howell is the one who entered the default judgment against him for his repeated violations of discovery. last night i had a chance to interview one of the lawyers for ruby freeman and shaye moss, she made it clear that it was years leading up to the fact that giuliani had not complied. does that actually mitigate towards him and not being able to successfully get a reduction in the verdict? >> that's a really interesting

issue. he has failed to disclose how much money he actually has. he claims to be broke. maybe that is just a convenient story or maybe it is the truth. but because he has concealed his finances, nobody knows about that. there is a doctrine of unclean hands that says you cannot get relief if you are not coming and being forthcoming with your own facts. that could very well be a factor here, unless he wants to share all of this finances, it's unlikely that he will get that kind of production. >> barb, let's shift gears, let's talk about mark meadows 11th circuit court of appeal hearing yesterday. you and i were following it closely. 30 minutes, 15 minutes of each side. we have heard some discussion already about the idea that when there is a claim that everything he did when he was white house chief of staff his protected federal conduct. and that's the reason why he should get the benefit of removal to federal court. i want to focus on another issue that came up yesterday, and that is this idea of such

statutory construction. the removal statute says, and the one that he's traveling under is the idea that it does not include former federal officials which is exactly what mark meadows is. it's a really technical thing and yet it seems like an off ramp for these judges to people to affirm what the trial court did, which was reject the ability to go to federal court. >> yes, that was the position of the georgia prosecutors. the chief judge, william pryor, seems to find value in this argument. he was quite aggressive in his questioning of the lawyers for mark meadows about this idea. he said look, in the statute, it talks about federal officers. it is not say anything about former federal officers. if textualism means what conservatives say it means then you can't make up words that are not in the statute. so that's what this comes down to. regardless of whether it was in the scope of his duties are not, the fact that he's no longer in office means that the statute does not apply to him

whatsoever. i think he loses on either grounds if the court makes that finding or if instead it takes that broader finding about being former. it's difficult to say that for him, what he was setting up calls with raffensperger, or squeeze his way into the room where the audit was being done in georgia, that that was somehow within his scope of his official duties. those are state responsibilities, not presidential responsibilities. >> barbara mcquade, thanks for getting us started. it's so good to see you. thanks. >> thanks, katie. >> still to come, this morning on the katie phang show. smoke and mirrors. inside the republicans desperate attempt to manufacture political controversy ahead of decision 2024. including their latest evidence free impeachment inquiry vote into president biden. we have a lot on deck for you this morning. don't go anywhere. this morning don't go anywhere. don'(carolers)ere. ♪ yes, they will, in any condition. ♪ ♪ get iphone 15 pro and ipad and apple watch - all on them! ♪

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holidays after a grossly unproductive you're on the hill courtesy of the gop. house enacted a whopping 22 bills into law this year. it is still facing the threat of government shutdown and two weeks and a battle over funding for the wars in israel and ukraine. what did republican lawmakers make time for before they headed home for the holidays? well, pushing through an impeachment inquiry into president biden with no proof and quietly passing legislation to prevent any president from unilaterally withdrawing the united states from nato. things are looking different for the senate as majority leader, chuck schumer, is delaying the trip home for the holiday break to work out a deal on immigration and aid to ukraine and israel. joining me now for more, nbc capitol hill correspondent, julie tsirkin. to, we are not the only one in those halls. it sounds like the senate will be around for a little while. the house has gone home, senate is, they're open for business, monday senators meeting today

and tomorrow to continue negotiations. any word on what the negotiations are going to be? >> they will meet later this morning, katie, this comes after multiple meetings including two yesterday with secretary mayorkas, the presidents border chief want to try to get in the room with easter negotiators. james lankford on the republican side, chris murphy on the democratic side. of course, independent senator, kyrsten sinema, in the middle trying to bridge the gap between the two sides and also communicating to the house. yesterday she tees that she was in talks with speaker mike johnson as well. trying to make sure everybody knows what is on the table when it comes to this proposal. again, this is an issue that congress has not been able to form consensus over for nearly four decades. i got a chance to talk to sinema one-on-one. this was on thursday. but really, now they are trying to come to terms with this framework, trying to have something on the table on monday so that when the senate returns they can potentially take that up. it is a very ambitious timeline in the words of senator murphy.

yesterday senator sinema told me failure is not an option. watch this. >> failure is not an option here. this is a crisis on the border. arizona is depending on us to fix this crisis. it's very complex. we have to be very careful, as we are negotiating, that we both come to the right policy decisions in that we can actually implement them. so i believe everybody wants a solution. i think the challenge here is to help people be willing to continue to compromise, to get to that solution that is workable and implementable. >> reporter: do you think the white house is negotiating in good faith and they are ready to compromise? >> i think everyone is negotiating in good faith right now. >> throughout all of this negotiators are trying to come up with a deal on this. you have progressives and hispanic lawmakers on the left to feel like they are iced out of congress sensations. they feel like proposals perhaps go too far, that they will be inhumane to migrants seeking asylum. you have on the right conservatives who think this won't go far enough. this is certainly a political

pretzel for these negotiators to figure out. but it is also something that is tied to that foreign funding for ukraine and israel. i have to tell you, senator lindsey graham, one of the biggest republican ukraine hawks told me just before he left town on thursday that he doesn't by the white house saying that ukraine will run out of funding if they don't get something done this year. that suggests to me that even those who want to send foreign funding to ukraine want to wait until january because they do think they will have a bit of a better chance of getting all of this done. that being said, schumer really wants a deal next week. katie? >> reporter: nbc capitol hill correspondent, julie tsirkin, it's always good to see you. thank you. joining me now for more on this conversation, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst. -- msnbc political analyst. my saturday morning power political panel. susan, i will start with you. first of all, you probably didn't hear me laughing, but kyrsten sinema said, quote, everyone is negotiating in good faith. susan, really, it's kyrsten sinema. but i want to ask you, what do

you think about senator schumer's efforts to try to work something out in the senate for this funding deal? considering immigration changes to asylum and expedited deportation are also going to be on the table. >> i think it is funny to hear senator schumer talk about immigration since he's done absolutely nothing in new york for the migrant crisis. but in spite of, that there are people who are working on both sides of the aisle. i think they want to come to some kind of conclusion. the problem is i don't think that the house will say yes to what they want. even if they get it. they want to have something to vote against. they are not interested in governing. so the senate can stay in session until christmas eve, but it's not going to help get anything done i think when it comes to the house. >> you know, to susan's point, every week i cover these stories and they are important stories to cover but every week it is the same common denominator. gop house republicans.

house republicans refused to do anything other than vote for an impeachment inquiry which we will get to. let's just say the senate passes a deal. it comes to some kind of compromise. the house says no. we are now at a stalemate again? >> i think we are and it's further evidence that the house gop, which much more encompasses what you might call the maga wing of the republican party, now with the leadership of mike johnson there. katie, they're not interested in governing. this is a house gop caucus that telegraphs its hostility to the democracy, its hostility to the work that needs to be done to get the government functioning. this is what they are. they are telling you very clearly who they are. they're not interested in negotiating, they're not interested in, in some cases, even keeping government running. it's all gamesmanship and political tactics. no real substantial effort to get policy accomplished and it's going to be their posture going into next year even more so because it's an election year. >> susan, when does it become time to pay the piper? when they managed in the house, they being the republicans, to

unanimously vote for an impeachment inquiry that is completely baseless with no evidence. you don't have to be a lawyer to seek that kind of evidence. they managed to pull that off. that is the only thing they've managed to do. we are kissing up on a government funding deadline again in january, within days of when they get back in january from holiday break. it must be nice to go on christmas vacation not doing her job. >> yeah, i think it is shocking for all of these conversations to be taking place about impeachment when, like you said, on january 19th we are facing a government shutdown. and i have no idea what speaker johnson is going to do to corral people. maybe he will do something like he did on the ndaa recently and allow republicans to vote their conscience and get things passed with democrats. but i think that it's highly unlikely and i think speaker johnson and republicans, the

wing that fernand was talking about, they would like to see a shut down. they like it when government doesn't work. because then they get more attention and they can yell and scream. >> that's worse than my nine year old. let's talk about jim jordan, james comer, hunter biden. that is another component of it. again, also a non issue. all of this ridiculousness that the doj has been weaponized in favor of hunter biden. he's looking at two in federal indictments and a lot of time in prison. do you think it makes sense politically for hunter biden to do what he did, for example, this week. to stand up and say, this is not my father, it is me, it's my fight. is there any alignment you see coming between hunter biden in the white house on this? >> this is obviously something -- think of hunter biden is not at the ballot. because why are we we relitigating hunter biden's issues? it's a tragedy for him. it certainly in a comfortable painful point for president biden. his son and going through this. this is a political circus, katie.

what are the maga republicans telegraphing? it's not about hunter biden. we're persecuting political opponents. if need be, we will stay off the governance of the country in order to make that case. i think, yes, it's important for hunter biden to come out and make his case and be clear to the american people that this is a sham. they are not operating in good faith, unlike what kristen sinema said earlier. they just need to go forward and keep making that case of the american people. let's not mistake what it is. it's a movement by a hostile maga house gop, hostile to democracy, to send a message that they're going after political opponents, in this, case hunter biden. >> susan, what is the political landscape look like in 2024? put your goggles on, your political goggles, 2024. you've got a biden impeachment. you and i both know it's not that hard for them to vote for impeachment. this is an impeachment inquiry vote. but it's not that hard for them to vote for impeachment of president biden. and what does that look like

going into an election year with that pending? >> i think it will blow up in the republicans face. when we had the last few inquiries over different presidents there has been something there before they opened. it they knew what they were at least investigating. there was not enough to investigate right now joe biden for something he did. let's be clear, it was ten or 12 years ago, it may not sound great but it has not been proven to be illegal in any shape or form. house members are allowed to do insider trading. so it is absurd. but here is the thing. this inquiry vote, they got every republican on board. a lot of them hedged, those who were in swing districts, 2020 districts, they are saying you better show me something. i'll give you the permission but i won't be the first one to call it out if i don't think i can take a legitimate vote on impeachment.

so with only a two vote majority right now coming into january, i think this is going to be a disaster. >> i haven't seen any evidence. i have to go guys, i will tell you right now, this flies in the face of our judicial system. as a prosecutor, you don't have evidence, this is a cart for the horse problem, you can't manufacture evidence. sure, i wouldn't put it past them. but this goes nowhere fast. maybe to susan's point, maybe it's good for biden. thanks for being here, i appreciate it. coming up next, supreme court showdown. the nation's highest court taking up a high stakes legal battle that could affect the future of access to the abortion pill. while texas supreme court continues to destroy women's reproductive rights, devastating consequences it will have for millions of women across that state. we will be right back. we will be right back. we will be right back. i may have trouble getting around, but i want to live in my home where i'm comfortable and my friends are nearby. i can do it with the help of a barber,

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overturning roe v. wade, the united states supreme court will take up the issue of reproductive rights. announcing this week that it will decide on the availability of mifepristone, a commonly used abortion pill. but until the court issues a decision, the fda's approval, as well as current levels of access to the drug will remain in place. the status quo is not a luxury many women seeking an abortion in states with restrictive abortion laws can afford. women like kate cox, the texas mother of two whose fetus had a rare genetic condition that almost always results in a miscarriage or stillbirth. also put her own health, including future fertility, in jeopardy. while the state supreme court put a trial court's ruling, allowing kate to get the procedure on hold, she continued to have medical complications and finally she was forced to leave texas for an abortion. because the texas supreme court comprised of nine male republicans does not care about women's health, it eventually ruled against kate cox. joining me now is many tomorrow, president of reproductive freedom.

many, let's start with texas. the supreme court seemed to contradict its own authority. the state legislature has delegated to the medical rather than political -- that decision about when a medical -- take cox's own doctors who said they medically needed the abortion. what does that tell you about the court and others will ignore their own legal reasoning to achieve the desired result? >> when i was in law school, katie, my professors kept telling me, don't interpret this for political reasons. this is an impartial judiciary. remember those days? you would think that this supreme court would interpret the law correctly. but the texas legislature, frankly, seems to have had no intention of making in forcefully's exceptions. these exceptions of medical necessity or ally designed not

to work. so you could say the texas supreme court is doing exactly what the law was designed to do. this is really important as we are going across the country, state by, state fighting for abortion rights. republican extremists are saying, well, look at the span. it's not really a ban. it's a limit that had these exceptions. we have to question, when is a ban not specifically a ban? and exceptions, when do they work? they are designed not to work. they are designed to -- >> this is such an important point, many, but i want to stay on for a second emphasize. because what you are saying, a lot of these legislators say that, well, we provide for these exceptions. what is your problem? we're giving you an out. if you need one. in texas specifically, her doctor said it was her good faith belief that kate met the abortion exception. but the court said good faith is not the same as reasonable medical judgment. so the people that are drafting these laws, many, they are intentionally making them vague.

they are making the bag, so vague that you would drive a mack truck of political intent through. the courts, typically, that our conservative leaning, they're interpreting those vague laws to fit their own purpose. so where is the recourse? where is the justice in this? >> there is no justice. kate cox had to leave the state. she had the privilege and means in a terrible posture situation to leave her state. i'm from texas. i can tell, you the majority of women affected by these bands, women of color, women in rural areas, women who are marginalized from care, they could not leave the state. and again, when they are prohibited from -- movements or who have -- already have children. how to get the child care? how do you travel? what's important to note about the kate cox case is that her pregnancy is later in terms. there are increasingly limited options for pregnancies later

in term. only ten states right now, i will have to double check my numbers, where you can get such an abortion. >> let's talk about the united states supreme court. its decision to here in this term those two mifepristone appeals. were you surprised at all that they decided to take up those two appeals? >> no. it is a mixed bag. we would have preferred for the court to dismiss the case. but look, now that the court has taken the, case there is a couple of things for the american people to watch out for. this is an incredibly radical extremist court. this is the case that they accepted on narrow terms of standing, katie. we should be concerned regardless. the mifepristone case came out of judge matthews court. it has been questionable from the start, whether there was any credibility, any standing for this case. the fact that it made it this far is alarming. this is a case extremists have

tried to remove for over a decade and only this extremist judge took it. this case is what we have been calling a backdoor abortion ban. what that means is, instead of going after the legality of abortion, they're going after the fda authorization of the drug. again, mifepristone is the most popular form of abortion. most widely used. in this increasing access climate of -- it's easier to get because of telemedicine. taking this, questioning this access, it could have devastating consequences for the entire country, including in states where abortion is protected like california and new york. >> mini, your fears are well founded, there was blockbuster reporting in the new york times about how the supreme court got it roe v. wade in all the backdoor dealing that went on to be able to get that result. to what you're talking about, they narrow issue that originally was brought forward in dobbs ended up getting

bigger because of that conservative majority driven to be able to make sure that it overturned roe v. wade. in this instance, for the mifepristone cases, the supreme court said they were not going to take up the total ban on being able to access it that judge kacsmaryk basically said was going to happen in terms of the fda approval that was brought in 2000. do you have a concern, that because the supreme court has agreed to take these cases that maybe they have an ulterior motive in terms of expanding prohibitions against mifepristone access? >> absolutely. we would be foolish, after looking at the new york times investigation, to take this court at face value. what we -- were so fascinating about that report, incredibly well done report, is that it was clear that the justices were concerned about political optics. it was clear that amy coney barrett raised the concern right after with bitter ginsburg that she was going to be labeled as somebody who is taking advantage of the

political moment. and yet, they did it anyway. justice roberts did his best to try to, quote, moderate the case. which frankly would have been incredibly devastating. and yet they proceeded, despite what they knew would be negative public opinion. this is a court that has shown that it does not care about precedent. it is not flinching in the face of public opinion. we have been running a campaign with our colleagues across the reproductive rights justice community to educate the american people on mifepristone. they are hoping that -- the pharmaceutical industry to not undermine the fda's authority will be helpful here. i have to say, this court is hard to be trusted in the american competence of this court is at the lowest levels yet. >> it has earned the lack of trust. we mini timmaraju, so as always, such a voice of reason, thank you for being here, i appreciate it. coming up next, digging through the data, by special counsel, jack smith, latest expert who reportedly extracted info from

trump's government phone on january 6th could be very very bad news for the former presidents legal defense. don't go anywhere, you're watching msnbc. you'r watching msnbc watching msnbc try new robitussin lozenges with real medicine and find your voice. you know? we really need to work on your people skills. [group laughing] admit it. you use my old spice body wash. i'm not letting hotel soap. near my skin. it's the lavender and mint for me. let me get that, savannah, if you don't get your moisturized hands off my body wash. when it comes to former

president, donald trump, d.c. election interference case, it turns out the devil could be in those digital details. in a court filing on monday, special counsel, jack, smith gave notice that he intends to call three expert witnesses at the trial. to reveal what they discovered when they analyzed the phone data of trump and an unnamed individual close to him. these witnesses include two experts on geolocation data and one expert on cell phone data that will testify on the treasure trove obtained via search warrants to show how the phones were used post-2020 election, including websites that were visited and tweets that were made by trump on january 6th. acrdg to the court filing testimony from the two geolocation experts, it will

help to aid the jury and understanding the movements of individuals towards the capital asia -- area during and after the defendants speech. the move comes after prosecutors one access to trump's phone twitter account earlier this summer after a month long battle with the platform now known as x and the special counsel's office. joining me now, former republican congressman, denver riggleman, the author of the, breach the untold story of the investigation into january 6th. denver, talk about this. this is so interesting. technical, you are the cyclical -- house select committee for 16. based off what you've seen in the past, what you know, when you're able to disclose and this new filing from jack smith, how concerned should donald trump be about what these witnesses will be adding to the special counsel's case? >> he should be very concerned. it really does depend on what is in the phone. when you do a cell phone exploitation, whether it is a physical exploitation or some kind of logical exploitation, what you can see is sometimes

deleted files. i think that's the thing that some people don't understand. you can see text messages, other types of communications that you might not see in something called detailed records. that is the difference. you can actually see content, you could see people you might not have seen before. and if it's people that are close to him you might be able to see some sort of subordination. >> debra, i want to focus on expert number three. they're going to provide testimony but the white house cell phones used by trump and individual one. individual one, unidentified in this filing for obvious reasons, do you think that based upon the research that you have done, today you've analyzed, there could be a total link to who this person is and others? >> absolutely. the great thing about people who do -- sell phone exploitation is they can see the first, second and third order. if this individual is using the phone on behalf of trump, or we see them communicating with trump and then something else to somebody else down the

stream, now you have other individuals that you can investigate. the incredible thing about ones and zeroes is that they make the best witnesses. there is no way to get out of that. now what you can see, is [inaudible] intermediary. the intermediary has not been investigated, just by having that phone you can identify the intermediary. then you can get their cell phone records and you can get their devices and see who they were talking to. this could be pretty powerful for the prosecution. >> also, expert three, denver is going to talk about the images found on those phones. the websites visited, the use of those funds post election including on 16 and when trump's phone was unlocked in the twitter app was opened on 16, what exactly is jack smith going for when he focuses on those particular areas for this expert witness? >> you know what is amazing, katie, when you think postelection, november, third all the way through january 6th, what he is hoping to see, you know, when you're looking at that type of aid, at what you're hoping to see or what you think you might see are things that were not in the

actual metadata the gale records, other investigations or depositions or things of that nature. when you see photos, when you see people who might be communicating through somebody to donald trump or donald trump himself talking to those individuals, it could now go to, was he lying? was he making things up? where was he in a specific time? was he actually where he said he was? all that stuff can be found on a cell phone device. again, i don't think people realize the power of the computer that you have in your hand, katie. and what i can tell you about what your movements were, who you're talking to, if you've deleted files, what absaraka, to do have a group to taps? who's exequiel or other encrypted channels? -- good operational security. >> and if you didn't do anything wrong why would you be fighting so hard in court to make sure that special counsel, jack smith, di get his hands on that phone? moving on. i want to talk about that se hour gap in the internal white house records on the day of the 16 insurrection. the house committee found a

seven hour gap. could this phone data that was obtained via the search warrants give us a window into what was going on during that missing time? >> yes, absolutely. and we already knew former investigation on the january six committee that even though the call logs to don't identify any phone calls coming in or out, and for the most, part we know that they were had massive numbers of calls going in and out from the white house switchboard and cell phones at the time. there should be some concern that whoever was actually -- the white house does not reflect the phone calls that were actually going in and out of the white house. so cell phone exploitation, or with call records attached to that phone, you can actually see what was happening in the gap. i think that's going to be very powerful. >> denver, to your point, when you're trying to present a case, especially at this prosecutor, you want the objective facts. witnesses can't maybe be accused of bias or considering their testimony or interpreting it in a way to be able to

influence an outcome or a result. but in this instance, we, for example, have images of where donald trump may have been located. the geolocation data that comes from these phones in this data that comes internally from the apps, et cetera, that actually speaks to what he was doing. not so much where he was. because we could have a beat on where he was but what he was doing, with you he was communicating, and what did he know, how did he know or did he know how quickly mike pence was in danger of being hanged outside of the white house at that time? excuse me, outside the capital. >> oh my goodness, i mean, you can't drop any more comments, katie. jimmy christmas. if you have two location you can tell the people around you. it's not just the device, it's not the other devices they might have, it's also the records that are associated with all the devices that could give you geolocation data. now you are windowing and exactly where that person was, or dam close exactly where that

person was. you're looking at the individuals who are there who might have already been convicted. who might already be investigated. all of that stuff is right there in the device. again, it's very difficult to run from metadata. i have told many people before, you can lie in an interview, you can lie in a deposition. we have that happen in the january six committee where people would say well, i never talked to that person. well these call records said that you did. it's very difficult to lie when your devices telling everybody where you are at and what you are doing. when you do it legally unethically with proper authorities, that metadata can be very powerful in any case. >> just goes to show, we should not underestimate the special counsel, jack smith. debra rikelman, always, good to see you my friend. happy holidays. >> thanks katie, happy holidays. >> after the break, disrupting in style. the first sneaker brand celebrating our asian american culture and style. the cofounders of 15 87 sneakers joins me next. sneakers joins me next. you don't wanna miss

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i think for us, you know, there's always been -- we were able to tell our own story. so it was taking various different cultures which were so diverse and touched on a whole range of areas, for us it was more asian american, we don't need to explain ourselves, because we're so diverse and we cover so many different ethnic

groups. for 1587 sneakers, we wanted to be who we are, unapologetically. and re-write the story of what that looks like to be asian american. >> so you know, adam king, we are in an api renaissance. landmark moment for api representation in pop culture, from everything all at once, joyride, to k-pop, you think the momentum has translated into your industry space? >> 100%. i think sneakers traditionally have taken ideas from asian americans but never given them credit. the best example was a couple years ago they came out with a theme called hip-hop in hot pots. they always have to re-branded. to me that's the message saying, you know, our culture is not good enough to stand on its own. i think there is definitely a renaissance right now through all the movies and i think our message of the unapologetically yourself resonate with everyone. >> sam, what is next for you guys? you sold out your first run of

your line of sneaks. what is next? it sounds like disguised a limit for this company? >> yeah, we are unbelievably grateful for the community that is really embracing us and hugged us. you know, there is definitely a big announcement that we are working on that is coming down the pipeline that we're not ready -- i think our lawyer would be upset if we announced already. we are excited. for us it is going beyond sneakers. our hats, our shirts, and when you track all of our marketing data, what has been fascinating to us is we are extremely proud of the fact that we use full grain italian leather. but it's actually our story that is what is driving people to buy the shoes and the brand. it's not that they're just buying the shirts, the hats, they buy everything. so for us we want to really take it from what people might think of us as a sneaker brand,

but also a brand and vision to move the entire community forward. >> adam, i have less than a minute left with you. i want to ask you, do you find that this api inspired line is actually resonating with other communities? >> 100%. when we -- we were not sure, but 30 to 40% of our business is non-asian americans. so our message of being unapologetically yourselves and proud, not having to worry about am i okay? am i okay to be myself and shine my light? it resonates with everyone. so we're really proud of that and we email in speak with almost every customer. we tell them why, we ask them what resonated with them, and it's always the message. >> reporter: well, i can say this, i'm proud of you guys. it's so important, representation matters. representation is everything. adam king and sam hyun, i'm

proud of you. thank you for doing what you're doing and keep going at it. as a lawyer i'm glad you didn't do anything to get yourselves in trouble either. happy holidays, guys. >> thank you so much, katie. >> thanks. my thanks to all of you for joining me this morning. i will be back here tomorrow where i will welcome von dubose, one of the attorney for former election georgia workers, ruby freeman and jay moss. they were just awarded 100 and $50 million in the civil defamation lawsuit against rudy giuliani. all of you can keep up with us by following at katie phang show at instagram, tiktok, x, and we heard, you we are now on threads. stay tuned for the saturday show with jonathan kaye part, it's coming up next. rt it's coming up next. it's coming up next. when your keys are in the door and your body's like, “it's happening”! if you're worried about your protection, it's not the right protection. always discreet protects like no other. with double leak guards that help prevent gushes escaping from the sides. and a rapid dry core that locks in your heaviest gush quickly for up to zero leaks.

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leaving town without tackling their hefty to do list, including providing critical aid to ukraine and preventing a slide towards a government shutdown next month. they did find the time to launch a bogus impeachment inquiry into president biden. vermont congresswoman, becca balint, joins us live to discuss the chaos on capitol hill. nice. a jury orders rudy giuliani to pay $148 million to two georgia election workers he falsely accused of trying to steal votes. kathryn crist minutes here to discuss how ruby fenian and