and of course, as you're rushing out the door to get the packages shipped, one thing you want to keep in mind is how your packing it. you want to make sure your gift arrives and is not damaged. i talked to the owner, george, hear about some packing tips. take a listen. >> i suggested if you have batteries in your package, remove those. use a new box, not an old box with saggy corners and that sort of thing. at least put a couple of inches of package material in the box. i would not use gift wrapping paper or string. i would use three inch packing tape. and if it is fragile i would certainly asked one of our certified packing experts for help. >> and if you are going to be super last-minute and shipping is not your thing, remember that by online and pick up in-store is also an option that you are able to do until around penny am on christmas eve and still get it to that person you're looking to share with. alex? >> you gift cards. that works too. priscilla, thank you. that does it for me on this

edition of alex witt reports. also you tomorrow at one pm eastern. yasmin of us again continues the coverage. giving you a quick look at the stormy scene of the pier on juneau beach, florida. yasmin is next. florida. yasmin is next hey everybody, good to see, yasmin vossoughian. we are live on capitol hill this afternoon where there was actual work going on. senate negotiators trying to hammer out a deal on the border and ukraine aid right now. the fallout from the stunning verdict, rudy giuliani ordered to pay 150 million to two georgia poll workers. he defamed with lies. >> the flame that giuliani lit with those lies and passed to so many others to keep that flame blazing changed every aspect of our lives. >> money will never solve all of my problems. i can never move back into the

house that i called home. i will always have to be careful about where i go and who i choose to share my name with. i miss my home, i miss my neighbors, and i miss my name. >> reporter: but rudy has not learned his lesson. he is reacting to the verdict by continuing to lie. we will look at whether that will cost him even more. as the former president prepares to take the stage in new hampshire, new questions are swirling about a newly-revealed binder of classified material on russian election interference that vanished at the end of his time in office. all of that plus, the israeli government is under pressure after their forces shot three hostages by mistake. we are keeping an eye on a weekend storm threatening millions of people right now in live report on that coming up.

hey everybody, let's start on capitol hill. a key meeting of senators is set to take place this hour as they work feverishly on a foreign aid bill that includes funding for both ukraine and israel. earlier today, the high stakes sessions included secretary mayorkas, working to find common ground on the bill that gop members insist must be tied to immigration reform. let's bring in nbc's julie tsirkin, who's been following this all day for us. if you will, julie, is there some optimism that the work can get done? >> yasmin, there has been optimism for days. now all we keep hearing's progress is being built on. negotiators are in the room. nobody has left screaming or throwing their paperwork in the air. file accounts, the fact that they're still in the room, the fact that they're still meeting and talking about this is a good sign. is it enough to get them to a vote next week? like leader schumer wants? that's a different question. i have some reporting with our colleague, kristen wellford, in the last few, minutes that they

still have significant gaps on pretty major issues when it comes to reforming the immigration and asylum systems. some of those things have to do with tightening the parole system. republicans want to get rid of it altogether. they also want to expand expedited detention of migrants. expedited removal of migrants from nationally, new york city, chicago, big cities where this provision never applied to before. some on the left, progressives and hispanic lawmakers have been iced out of this negotiations. they tell me they're frustrated by this. sara jacobs also spoke about this. let's play a little bit of what she had to say and we will talk about the rest of this on the other side. >> i am concerned about some of the things i am hearing being proposed, in part because what the republicans are proposing, these harsh measures, we know they actually don't deter people from coming to the border. and so what i'm hoping for is that we will be able to get something that actually helps solve the problems that we are facing and address the root causes in a comprehensive

approach. >> those in the room, that includes chris murphy, kristen sinema, james lankford, they really downplayed the concerns we are hearing from the left. they have said that if you're in the room you would understand why it's so complicated to get to a deal on these things. that being, said there are two simultaneous meetings having right now. in one room you have the senate negotiators meeting, about for the next 30 minutes or so, i'm told. in the other room you have their, staff including staff leader schumer and mcconnell, and the white house, staff sitting together try to work at a potential framework that they can go off of. i'm told by senator lankford that they want to see a framework by the end of the weekend because the senate returns on monday evening to try to take all of this up. it just seems like it is a very unrealistic and ambitious timeline, he has. and especially when you have the house not ready to come back until mid january. >> we will be watching, julie tsirkin, thank you. coming, up next hour, congresswoman debbie roy wasserman schultz will join me with her thoughts on any potential funding deals and chances. plus --

the biden -- putting pressure on israel. much more, you don't wanna miss that conversation. let's talk about that verdict that drew audible gasps in the courtroom yesterday. federal jury of washington ordered former trump attorney, rudy giuliani, to pay 100 and $48 million in damages to toots former georgia poll workers. ruby freeman and shaye moss, after he falsely accused them of election fraud. the decision did not keep giuliani from doubling down on his claims, just moments after this verdict was delivered. >> i have no doubt that my comments were made and they were support-able and our support will today. i just did not have an opportunity to present the evidence that we offered. did you notice we were not a lot about it one piece of evidence in defense? do you also realize that my ability is not based on any trial, my ability is based on her disagreement with me on discovering. which is absurd.

>> by the, way i want to remind folks, he was supposed to testify towards the end of this trial and he chose at the last moment not to testify, whether or not that would've changed things really is the question. i want to bring in nbc news reporter, brian riley, the author -- of how january 6th broke the justice system. former federal prosecutor and legal analysts -- to talk through the stuff. ryan, talk through the numbers here. you and i spoke yesterday, we were looking at possibly 40, eight $50 million. theyere asking for 24 reached to each election worker. this is a heck of a lot more than that. >> it, is and it's the punitive damages that came in there. they left that up to the jury to decide on their own what sort of -- would send a message to the broader public about these lies that giuliani told and send a message to other people who might be thinking of spreading similar lies. that is what we heard afterwards from sheamus, talking about the importance of poll workers and not wanting

other poll workers and election workers to be afraid when they go out themselves and take on these roles in 2024. certainly that figure, that attention grabbing figure is going to spread a message pretty far and wide about these false claims that ultimately led up to the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. it seems like rudy giuliani is still lost in this world where he still believes these things. to this day, even with -- after getting hit like this, he can't really give it up. it seems, yasmin. >> it seems like he's doubling down. ryan, i will let you go, i'll talk to you again in the next hour as well. thank you. let's talk about the possible appeals process. he likely is going to appeal this decision. what happens? >> so i think the first step will be a request to the trial judge to reduce the amount of the judgment against him. that is an illegal maneuver called a request for a remitted

there. it's standard in a case like this to argue for instance that the punitive damages are excessive and should be reduced by the trial judge. of course, if the judge decides to reduce that award in this case, it would still be incredibly significant. this is a very large base point starting number. an appeal here is complicated for giuliani. he would have to file an peal bond, that comes a a great cost when you have verdict that is this large and is based on the amount of the verdict. whether he has the resources and the wherewithal to put together that bond would remain to be seen. >> let's talk about that, the resources, becausee know giuliani does not actually have this kind of money. how much he has, we don't necessarily know. if he cannot pay whatever this ends up landing off of, if the judge decides to reduce it or not, what happens then? >> well, it looks like giuliani

does not have a good financial option. you would expect someone behaving rationally in this situation might try to file for bankruptcy. but because this verdict against giuliani is based on intentional willful conduct, this sort of -- is not dischargeable. ruby freeman and shaye moss would get in line with other creditors to see what could be done with his remaining assets, his real estate, that could be foreclosed upon and sold. they wouldn't get their share in that sort of difficult lengthy process. >> the likelihood they would se this is fairly low. >> i think it is probably nonexistent. this award is so high. his resources simply do not go that far. that's the straight-up proposition. >> i want to pivot for the georgia election trial if we can. mark meadows, making a second appeal this time to a three judge panel of the

atlanta-based 11th u.s. circuit court of appeals. moving his case, wanting to move his case to federal court. the judge seems to remain skeptical. they remain skeptical of i want you to take a listen. >> acrding to him it seems ke everything was in his official -- on behalf of a spific political candidate. an ged effort to unlawfully change the outcome of the election in favor of a particular candidate when the office of the president has no preference for who occupies it. >> so i think the overarching question here is, if meadows loses this appeal, if it does not move to the federal court system, does he then become the next person to strike a plea deal here or does this end up in the supreme court?

>> you know, his status has always been shrouded in a little bit of mystery. , again someone behaving rationally might have cut their losses and decided to cooperate months ago, if not years ago. but meadows has not done that. that is what led to his indictment in georgia. there have been been whispers that fani willis is not interested in a plea deal with him, that she has decided that he is one of those hard-core defendants who should face trial. i suspect if he were to show up with credible information that could be corroborated that there would be room for discussion there. but so far we have not seen any hard evidence that that is what meadows intends to do. so he will get this decision from the 11th circuit. this panel, which by the, way really runs the gamut from the most recent biden nominee, judge boo-boo, who is the newest judge on the circuit to its chief, bill pryor, a very conservative judge. across the panel, including judge rosenbaum, they seem

disinclined to accept meadows arguments. in large part, yasmin, as you point, out there is a distinction between work that is being done by president trump and his chief of staff and candidate trump. and his chief of staff. the conduct that meadows is indicted for, alongside trump, appears to fall into that candidate trump bucket. we heard judge rosenbaum quoting the language used in judge chutkan's opinion on -- saying the office of the presidency doesn't really care about who holds that office. they just care about standards for who holds that office. all of this suggests that meadows will not succeed. he might go to the supreme court. he can absolutely do that. but this doesn't seem like the sort of case that they would need to take out. they could from the 11th circuit pretty quickly. >> joyce vance for, us we appreciate it. coming up everybody, and 60, seconds loved ones mourn the loss of the three hostages

mistakenly killed by idf soldiers. troubling new details being revealed about the moments that led to their deaths. a live report from israel coming up next.

following the breaking news in gaza after the israeli military confirms three israeli hostages were mistakenly killed and by idf soldiers. we are learning now that one of the hostages was holding a stick with a white cloth. the news sparking protests of anger inside israel as they call on the government to do more to bring the hostages home. investigation into the deaths is now underway. we want to bring in nbc's, hala gorani, joining us from tel aviv with more on this. hala, what more are we learning? >> yasmin, as far as the families are concerned, infuriating details coming to us from the idf. one official cod that three men emerged from a building and then, as you mentioned, one of them was holding a stick a top of which

was a piece of white cloth, a surrender flag. they were shirtless, they ran out. acrding to the idf offici, a soldier felt threatened and opened fire. two of the three, and you're seeing the pictures of the hostages who were killed on your scen, now we're -- died immediately acrdg to the idea of official. a third was able to run back into the building. was only injured. at that point, according to the israeli military official, a crfo help wasoreard in hebrew. that should have been a signal to the military -- to the soldier who opened fire that this could be a hostage and was not a fighter. the italian commander, according to the idf official, issued a cease-fire order but another brush fire towards the third figure eventually killed the third hostage. this is what we know so far. there was also a building nearby. they are saying, about 100

meters, there was sos scrawled on the side of the building as in help. but they are not 100% sure this is related to the group of three hostages that were killed yesterday. you mentioned the anger at hostage square in tel aviv, their family members, the loved ones, ordinary citizens have gathered. they are demanding that the government do more to free the remaining hostages. >> i want to tell folks, bibi netanyahu, along with his cabinet, are currently holding a press conference. we are monitoring, that especially when it comes to questions they may take with regards to the three hostages. as soon as that gets up and going we are certainly going to be watching that. hala, with the assignment that you take, and so many other journalists take, comes risk. and we lost another journalist yesterday, killed in an israeli attack in southern gaza. also, his colleague as well, al jazeera bureau chief in gaza was wounded.

he lost his family a few months ago. the committee to protect journalists report 64 journalist have been killed in gaza so far. how do we know about what happened and is israel addressing the protection of journalists in gaza right now? >> they have been asked this question repeatedly and they deny that they target journalists. but al jazeera issued a statement where they say they are holding israel directly responsible for the killing of their camera man. he was shot and his reporter, the correspondent, whose names you mentioned, their family members were killed back in october in the gaza strip. they suffered shrapnel wounds. they were taken to the hospital untreated. upon his release started reporting on the death of his camera man, some near al daca, who died after having blood out apparently. he survived for a few hours after the initial injury.

al jazeera and the team on the ground is blaming israeli forces for not allowing tigers and bulldozers to go in and clear a path for emergency vehicles to reach him. there you have another accusation as well leveled at the forces inside the gaza strip. as you mentioned, 64 journalists killed, of those four were israelis and 57 palestinians, the rest lebanese. it has been one of the deadliest conflicts for journalists that i can remember. i can't think of a deadlier one. it has taken a toll on the profession. >> we are going to be monitoring that press conference when it gets up and going with prime minister, bibi netanyahu. thank, you we appreciate it. still ahead, the latest details in the mystery of a binder containing highly classified information that reportedly vanished in the last days of the trump administration. plus, a widespread storm is making its way up the east coast this weekend, bringing heavy rain, wind, coastal flooding from florida all the way up to new england. as the gop pushes ahead on a

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hollywood. you have the beach behind me over here. you can see not only the high surf, the churning, ocean but you can see the red flags outside of the stand there, warning beachgoers not to go in that water. so we have seen gusts of wind, we've also seen heavy bands of rain come through. one thing we're hearing over and over again is that the biggest threats are the things that would develop later in the evening, and the biggest threats would be things that would be very fast-moving, often deadly. we're talking about tornadoes and flash flooding. preparations are being done on a local and state level to prepare for exactly that. i want to show you a video of the what we have seen here in hollywood beach. this includes -- tiger dams, these orange barriers are filled with water. to prevent ocean water from spilling onto the boardwalk, getting into the homes and businesses around here. we also have heard that across south florida, the canals have been lowered and this is because they are anticipating

the drainage system to get inundated with rain water. florida is a flat state so this is a state that is filled with cities that are prone to flash flooding. and we have of course talked about the tornado risk. a lot of things that are being done to anticipate the possibility of flash flooding, it's impossible to predict exactly where that could happen. we have seen people sandbagging their homes around here. i will add one thing. as we wait to see how the storm system develops, not just with florida throughout the east coast later in the night, we see lots of canceled events. we're talking about holiday parades, things that bring in a lot of money for the local economy. even if this is as bad as it gets, which is a lot of people hoping this is as bad as it gets, it's already cost the local economy millions. >> please stay safe. thank you for reporting for us from down there. coming, up it's former president trump campaigning in new hampshire right, now concerns are growing about new reports of classified material from the russia investigation.

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we are a little bit more than a month out from the key new hampshire presidential primary. today, former president donald trump's interim, new hampshire, rallying voters to expand his big lead. nikki haley, however, is

getting a boost after landing new hampshire governor, chris sununu, who's got -- endorsement. if, on a couple questions for you. wondering if sununu at all has endorsement -- his endorsement of nikki haley will give him any bit of a bomb. i wonder how folks on the campaign trail are preparing for what is to come. >> right, that is a question that is outstanding at this, point yasmin. the endorsement came this week and we are going to have to wait some more to give us a sense of whether nikki haley is going to be surging coming out of this endorsement. he is a popular governor. here if you look at kim reynolds of iowa, one month ago she endorsed ron desantis in that state. he only had a three point bump over the last month over her endorsement. you could see what she is up against here in the state. donald trump's rally here, there are several thousand folks inside of this arena here. mower folks outside. frankly, for the likes of nikki

haley and ron desantis, this is tough to matchup against here. for the case of nikki haley she's going to need all the help she can get including from the popular new hampshire governor. >> vaughn, we also know a number of candidates are participating in a debate in iowa. nikki haley, ron desantis, they're trying to pressure the former president to take part. what are they saying? is there a chance trump would participate? >> that is. right that is a frustration. i was just talking with susie wildes, the senior campaign adviser to donald trump, she says he has no expectation. she has no expectation that she will participate in one of these debates. but you can get the sense from ron desantis and nikki haley, that frustration. if you just take rhonda santas, between the two events that he had here in the state of iowa yesterday, he had maybe 100 people compare that again today, several thousand. there is a stark contrast. here i want to let you listen to the soundbite from ron desantis. perhaps he is providing his most sharpest critique yet of the former president upon being

asked the question of whether he would think that donald trump, if you were to lose in iowa and new hampshire, whether he would concede those races. take a listen. >> if trump loses he will say it is still, and no matter what, he will try to delegitimized the results. he did that against ted cruz in 2016. he will do that, i, mean even the apprentice did not get an emmy he said that. i don't think people will buy it. >> we have got four weeks, yasmin, until the iowa caucus. the candidates, including donald, trump will come here to new hampshire the very next day. it's just one week after that caucus. the new hampshire primary. yasmin? >> reporter: fawn hillyard. thank you. we appreciate. it documents of some of the country's biggest national security secrets could be mishitting. i binder containing highly classified information alluding to russia's interference election -- trump's 2016 campaign went missing. during the final days of the ump administration. they have been searching for it

for years, even briefing the senate intel committee two years ago. the binders supposedly had information on russian agents, including sources and methods used by u.s. and nato intel agencies. we want to bring an embassy's national security analyst, mark -- it's great to talk to you. from cnn's original reporting who broke the story, nbc confirming this as well. the former president had ordered it brought their to declassify a host of documents relating to the fbi's russia investigation. so when you think about that, what are your concerns when you have a binder full of highly classified information going missing for so long? >> there's a lot of concerns. when this report first came out over the last 24, 48, hours there was confusion on what exactly was the binder. and i think that where we are right now, this was the gop

efforts of the health intelligence committee to push back against the whole notion of russia collusion. with the trump campaign, you know, what is in it and reportedly it was highly classified information. such as signal intelligence, intercepts of russian communications. in addition, human intelligence sources. reports from our agents. if this is out in the ether now, floating around, and we can't find, it what is the damage that has been done? matter-of-fact, the intelligence community -- seems to have known about this for a while. one of the things congress should ask, certainly the american people should ask, what is the damage assessment? -- it's pretty serious because this is the sources and methods that the united states uses to collect on our most and biggest adversaries, our most critical national security concerns. >> i have to say, why is a binder full of classified information like this that might include human

intelligence, that might include sources that were recruited by cia agents, why would that be floating around even in the white house? in the oval office? brought in by the former president of the united states? why would you be able to view this type of thing only in a scif? >> that was, again, if this is the document that i think it is, this was designed to be red only at cia headquarters. the same thing could be said at the dni, the director of national intelligence. ordinarily, something like this would be read at cia or would be taken down to the white house at a read and return basis. not provided and then left. so i think that would be another concern on something that should not be floating around. you know, this is groundhog day we, over and over again, those chaotic last days of the trump administration, there was lax procedures on the handling of classified information. this matters, it's not the content. the intelligence community is

really care one way or another what it is saying. it is the fact that sources and methods might be compromised. that is the bread and butter, that is really serious. >> i want you to weigh in on what is happening in israel right now with the hamas were in the recent revelation that the idf soldiers killed three hostages that reportedly one of which we know has been confirmed had run out as our correspondent on the ground has said shirtless. one of them holding a stick with a white flag, to say surrender. the third then returned to an enclosed area in which they were then targeted and killed. what is your reaction to that? what are you thinking when you hear a story like that go down? >> this is tragic. this is the fog of war. this is really tough urban combat. you know, first of all, for the families of the hostages, this is absolutely horrific. even for the members of the israeli military, you know, they won't remember this -- they will live this forever.

one thing that came md is this is hostage rescue. we call it tier one units, they usually do. this in the u.s. it would be the navy seals, delta force, special offer asians forces. i don't believe that unit was operating in israel with that kind of expertise. it is tragic now. aside from the human toll, the issue of the hostages has exploded in israel. massage chief day but bernie returned to europe this weekend to meet with recoveries, there's so much pressure on the government of israel about the hostages. i think we're going to see that issue really come to the forefront. the question, yasmin, is can hamas deliver on any of these? are there hostages they would release? the hostage negotiations broke down because there were reports that some of them had been so -- had such terrible sexual abuse that hamas didn't want to release them. so this is a major issue. obviously benjamin netanyahu is

under the gun. he is speaking shortly, he is under huge pressure from the israeli public. we have been monitoring that -- we are certainly going to bring it to folks as we get it. do you feel as though there is a possibility that a, this could now propel the israeli government forward to make a deal yet again for another temporary cease-fire for the exchange of hostages? >> yasmin, if there was a deal to be made i think they would. right now they have. two events on the ground maer. you know, the tragic deaths of these three hostages would compel them to agree to another temporary pause. if there were any kind of hostages to be released. again, there is a question on, does hamas have the capability or willingness to do so? that is why the massage effects in europe meeting with a catteries. the reports from those meetings came out and said that its initial stages. i think it's good that they're talking but there's a long way to go. if there is a deal to be made i think they have to do, it particularly now with the

protests that have exploded in israel over the last 24 hours. >> mark, thank, you i appreciate it. congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz joins me to talk about the bidens administration's calls to -- i was saying the quiet part out loud, republicans are continuing to point out there protect whole political gain from a biden impeachment inquiry. coming up next. impeachment inquiry. coming up next coming up next then spraying my febreze air mist, to leave every room smelling fresh and clean. with that done, it's time to get to work. ♪ la la la la la life, diabetes, there's no slowing down. each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do. that's why you choose glucerna to help manage blood sugar response. uniquely designed with carbsteady. glucerna. bring on the day! (carolers) ♪ iphone 15 pro, your husband deserves it! ♪ glucerna. (mom) carolers? to tell me you want a new iphone? a better plan is verizon. (vo) it's your last chance to turn any iphone in any condition into a new

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voted to formalize their impeachment inquiry into president biden. they maintain that the president has committed three potential serious offenses, bribery, misconduct of office, and obstruction. evidence has been lacking. now texas representative, troy nehls, may have just said the quiet part out loud. >> what are you hoping to gain from an impeachment inquiry? >> all i can say donald j trump 2024. >> this is not the first time congressman males has been particularly honest about his party's motivations. last week he said after trump's two impeachments he wanted to give the former president a little bit of ammo to fire back, even just -- the investigations could help frame up, as he put, it the 2024 race. we want to bring in former republican congressman to talk more about this. it's a pleasure, thanks for joining us. jim jordan says he plans to

call nine more witnesses for questioning within the next two months. is this about to become an elector issue for the president biden? >> sure it, is it's a very big election issue for biden. i think what house republicans are doing is there effectively muddying the waters. donald trump is in full bloom trial season. i suspect he wants to drag this out as much as he can. to further confuse the issue, donald trump has been impeached twice. biden has an impeachment inquiry. i could see how this would just distract from other issues, at least as it relates to donald trump. >> so for thenew york times, using their subpoena power, republicans have obtained more than 36,000 pages of bank records. 2000 pages of suspicious activity reports from the treasury department and dozens of hours of testimony.

and they have yet to find any misconduct so far. are they basically admitting this is a political exercise? >> well, yeah. it certainly seems that way. and the congressman of colorado has been critical of this, we call it a flimsy network so far. so yeah, i think it is really largely politically driven at this point. house republicans have made a compelling case to impeach hunter biden, of course, hunter biden is not a federal official. so -- not exercising greater oversight over the [inaudible] maybe he was negligent, but that's not a high crime, maybe he was negligent and should have put his foot down on -- when he got -- the activities that gave off the appearance of -- but obviously that did not happen. >> i'm glad you brought up hunter biden.

he won on the offense of this, week appearing on capitol grounds, speaking out, i want to play a little bit of the sound and then we'll talk. >> in the depths of my addiction, i was extremely irresponsible with my finances. but to suggest that is grounds for an impeachment inquiry is beyond the absurd. it is shameless. there is no evidence to support the allegations that my father was financially involved in my business because it did not happen. >> i get that he wanted to speak out to defend his father, axios is reporting essentially that there is now some tension between hunter biden's team and the white house because they did not want him to even address this publicly. what do you make of the strategy here? >> i thought it was a terrible idea for hunter biden to hold a press conference like that. i think it's crazy for him to testify as well. if you testify --

that's brutal, with respect to the firearms and the tax matters he is currently being prosecuted on by the doj. i thought it was a total mistake for him to give an air and oxygen to this whole story. just a further inflame the issue. i could see why the white house was not happy about this press conference. he should not have done, that i thought he should've kept his mouth shut. maybe he could've taken the fifth. >> charlie, thank you. we appreciate, it good to talk to you. >> still ahead, a look at the downfall of rudy giuliani for america's mayor to being forced to pay 150 million for defaming election workers. how the former top prosecutor got to a point where he might be saying to himself, freaking giuliani. you should get some sleep. >> giuliani should get some sleep. >> that is a makes any sense. >> for ken giuliani.

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because rudy giuliani goes out on the street, out from the courthouse, on their web shows late at night, they say whatever they want. when you come into a court of law you have to have facts, you have to have evidence, and the truth matters. >> that was attorney john lankford, who represented

former election worker, shaye moss, against rudy giuliani's baseless lies claiming election fraud. giuliani has been ordered paid sheamus and her mother, ruby freeman, 100 and $48 million in damages. it is quite a public fall from grace for the man once known as, quote, america's mayor. we've all had a front row seat to witness this fall. rebecca gateless, chronicled the relative rise and fall of rudy giuliani in the four-part documentary series, when truth is in truth. the rudy giuliani story. she joins me now. rebecca, thanks for joining us on this. i appreciate it. rudy giuliani was revered for his leadership and response to 9/11. he talked to cbs about what it meant to be a leader in the days following the attack. take a listen to what he had to say. >> tell me, what is your philosophy? so many people are admiring your leadership. >> i think a couple of things.

you have to lead by example. you have to be honest. you have to be willing to work as hard as the people that you are asking to work with you and not be removed from them. >> it is incredible to hear that from him considering he who he has now become and what he is being accused of and found guilty. of 22 years later, actively peddling the former president's lies about the election being stolen. his defamed two election workers, charged alongside 19 others in the georgia r.i.c.o. case. how did we get here? >> well, first of all, thanks for having me on. i think this has been years of erosion of truth. fake news ultimately will have consequences. giuliani has shown over and over in his 50 years in the public eye that he's able to skirt the consequences of his actions and i think it's finally catching up to him. if you look at his reign as the

mayor in his first term, you look at his election runs for presidency, if you look at his -- there is examples of his mid use of truth and half truths. when someone has an unwavering belief that they should be empowered no matter the cost, there is certainly going to be collateral damage. >> nothing will stop them. this has been a huge backdrop in giuliani's career, even back when he was mayor of new york city. now you have two black women winning this suit against rudy giuliani. do you think race played a role and why it is he felt as if he could go after these women particularly? >> i think he has, you are right, a history of praying on the marginalized. if you look at his first term as mayor, broken windows theory and you know, over policing in new york city, you look at how

rikers was overrun at that time. i think he's always looked at those who he believes are less than he is and prayed on them. >> his son took to twitter after the decision yesterday, stating, i'm extremely proud of my father. he always has and forever will defend american values, our constitution and the president. can you talk about why he is so acutely dedicated to former president donald trump no matter what? >> i think andrew giuliani is an interesting case. he is one of those who has fully bought into donald trump. he is one of the loyalists the way that his father's. you know, giuliani, for better or worse, has fully bought into donald trump. he refuses to ever say that he did anything wrong. you know, in our documentary, right when sharpton talks about what you've been in public

office for so long, you ultimately will make mistakes. but giuliani will never say he did anything wrong or will he learn to move on from it. i think we are seeing the same with his son. >> yeah, possibly the same at the former president as well. rebecca guiltless, director of when truth is not truth, the rudy giuliani story. thank you so much. we've got a lot more coming up, folks. you're watching msnbc, our second hour starts right now. hi, everybody, i'm yasmin vossoughian. if you're joining us, welcome to you. if you're sticking with us we are thankful for that. last minute deal making on capitol hill right now, senate negotiators try to come up with a plan to address immigration and provide aid to ukraine and aid to israel. a pairing that not everybody supports. >> this is a dangerous pairing that we should be unequivocal-y standing against ti