they need to kind in mind for us that live on the border, i think we have some insights that they might not understand. we have to find that balance where you have law and order but at the same time you respect the immigrants' rights to asylum as you mentioned. >> congressman henry cuellar, thank you very much for being with us. it's a pleasure to see you. thank you. >> merry christmas and happy new year to you, jose. >> to you and yours as well. thank you so much. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," in an explosive ruling, the colorado supreme court rules donald trump is disqualified from running for president under a provision of the 14th amendment because it said he tried to overturn the 2020 election. with donald trump set to appeal, that puts the u.s. supreme court squarely in charge of whether

the former president can remain on the ballot. we will talk to the secretary of state from colorado coming up. high level international talks with the political head of hamas for a new hostage deal and a pause in the israel/gaza war. the palestinian death toll rises and the drumbeat crescendos for prime minister netanyahu to bring home the surviving hostages. >> israeli for another humanitarian pause, in addition humanitarian aid to enable release of hostages. home for the holidays. the senate is about to leave town without a deal on the border, ukraine, or israel. we will talk to senator chris

coons about the do-nothing congress coming up. ♪♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. that bombshell ruling from colorado's supreme court that donald trump cannot appear on that state'srimary ballot because he, engaged in surrection when he tried to overturn the 2020 election. colorado's state supreme court citing a 14th amendment provision that no person who has taken an oath to uphold the constitution can run for a federal office or serve in the military if they have previously engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the united states. the trump campaign is calling the decision deeply flawed and is fund-raising on it. the colorado court has stayed its decision until january 4th to allow the former president's lawyers time to appeal. they will appeal to the u.s. supreme court now which likely will put the decisionn hold

until the high court rules. in their ruling, the colorado judges noting that the gravity of their decision, writing, we do not reach this lightly. joining me now, nbc's vaughn hillyard and nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett. laura, there have been a number of states that have considered this 14th amendment of the constitution, and they did not decide this way. colorado did. now it goes to the supreme court. whatever they decide is binding for the country, presumably, if they take it, and if they decide on the substance. >> right. it's a pretty significant move. as you mentioned, no other court has done this. certainly, the courts that have looked at this in the last couple months, but no court in history has done it. the court recognized it was taking a significant steph. be careful in evaluating its impact. it's only one state court. the supreme court can still take

it up and completely reverse it if it wants to. for the legal issues at the heart of it, what people are actually grappling with here, a provision of the 14th amendment that has to do with the disqualification -- like you have qualifications for age, 35 to be president, there's also a disqualification clause that says if you take an oath to uphold the constitution, then you are disqualified f holding public office if you engage in insurrection. that's silent about whether the office of the presidency -- you can see it there. it's silent as it relates to the office of the presidency. there's been something of a debate raging in legal circles, conservatives and democrats and progressives, all embroiled about whether trump should be covered by that provision. courts have said no. this is the first court to say yes. >> what happens if the supreme court decides it's going to review the case, but it has not issued a decision by january 5th, the day colorado prints the ballots? that's the filing deadline.

>> if they take up the case -- even if they don't say whether they will take it up or not, as long as trump puts forth -- as long as his legal team puts out an appeal by that date, everything will be on hold. the court recognizing they were doing something pretty significant here put its own decision on hold and said, we will put a stay in place. as long as the former president puts his appeal by january 4th, then all of this will sort of stay in limbo until the supreme court actually makes that decision. no telling when they would do that. >> okay. vaughn, jump in here with the political ramifications of this. immediately, there was backlash from donald trump's allies and his rivals, rushing to his defense. i think all of them seeing a primary base -- the republican base is not going to like this. >> once again, the legal is stepping on the political. january 15th is the iowa caucus. one week later, the new hampshire primary.

march 5th is the day of super tuesday when one-third of the delegates will be decided in republican primaries around the country here. you said it, ron desantis, nikki haley, chris christie even coming to his defense saying, it should be the voters, not judges, that decide who the nominee for the presidency is. in the general election, who the president is. of course, it's up to the supreme court to make the determination and interpret what the constitution says. i think it's important to note, there is one presidential candidate, hutchinson, he is polling at 1%, he is at the forefront of this, including the first presidential debate, saying that donald trump should be removed and disqualified from the ballot for his role in the insurrection that took place. >> laura, one other quick point. all of our legal friends, you included, point out that judges are judges. they are not democratic or republican judges. these are being criticized by the republicans as three

democrats. but people like judge ludig and other conservative republican jurists have been saying the 14th amendment does -- >> it's a 4-3 decision. they were not unanimous as to the question. they realize, these are unprecedented, unchartered waters we are in. i think the usual fault lines don't necessarily hold true here. >> may not for the u.s. supreme court as well. vaughn hillyard, laura jarrett, thank you so much. colorado's secretary of state is joining us now. thanks for being with us. talk to me about what you now do. you are in charge of elections there. do you get a ballot prepared that has donald trump's name on it? do you assume his appeal -- he says he will appeal. we know he is going to. they were prepared for this. this puts it on hold, and he will be on the primary ballot. >> thanks for having me on. this is definitely a historic

case. in fact, it's historic because usually we don't have presidents trying to steal elections and then running for office again. the colorado supreme court has clearly spoken. they have determined that he engaged in insurrection and is disqualified from the ballot unless the united states supreme court holds otherwise. looking forward towards ballot certification, we will wait to see if this case is appealed and if the united states supreme court takes the case and go from there. >> if he appeals, but they haven't taken it, what do you do then? i think the state supreme court said that if he shows any sign of appealing, if he files an appeal, it's stayed, it's on hold. >> we assume trump will appeal. what the court order said is basically, if he appeals, the

case basically resets. it's assumed he is on unless the united states supreme court intercedes or decides that they aren't going to take the case or decide the case. the big picture is that i think we have to wait to see how this plays out. i'm confident we will have great elections in colorado, just like normal. we are considered the gold standard of the nation's elections. i believe that will hold true for the presidential primary. >> what if the supreme court has taken the case but it has not reached a decision by march 5th? presumably, on march 5th, he is in the election, but then after that primary, something could change if they then rule adversely against the supreme court of colorado. >> that type of scenario has played out before in colorado. i assume in other states. candidates are on the ballot and

then later found to be disqualified. there's mechanisms within the law to deal with that scenario. i think that the big picture -- no matter if donald trump ends up being on the ballot or off the ballot, is the extent of how dangerous he is to american democracy. he tried to steal the presidency from the american people. he incited an insurrection with folks ramming into the united states capitol, some of whom had plans to hang the vice president of the united states. then he did not stop there. he spent months trying to undermine the peaceful process -- the peaceful transfer of the presidency. going forward, i think whether or not trump is on the ballot, american voters have the ability to save democracy once again in the presidential primary and then in general election. >> with the country so divided, does it concern you at all that other states have considered this issue and have -- their

court system have decided it differently? >> well, i want to say, i agree with the colorado supreme court. trump incited the insurrection. there's no loophole in the constitution. to hold that there's a loophole for the president in the constitution would basically say, donald trump is above the law when he engages in rebellion and insurrection. i think that's wrong. looking at other states, i wouldn't go so far as to say those courts looked at the substance of this issue. michigan's courts decided to not look at the case saying it's a political question. minnesota decided that they do not review qualifications of candidates in the primary and that the case could be refiled for the general. i do think this is the first look at the substance of whether or not donald trump engaged in

insurrection and the provisions of section 3 of the 14th amendment. this might not be the final look. we will see if the u.s. supreme court takes the case. of course, as secretary of state, i will follow whatever court decision is in place by the time i certify the ballot. >> madam secretary, thank you very much. appreciate it. doubling down. donald trump did not take the colorado court's decision directly -- he didn't take it on, but he repeated some of his most controversial rhetoric in an appearance last night. what he said and the reaction to it coming next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." we are back in 60 seconds. you are watching msnbc. ♪ get iphone 15 pro and ipad and apple watch - all on them! ♪ (mom) please forgive him. (carolers) ♪ it's all good - just a little awkward. ♪ (soloist) think we'll wrap this up. (vo) it's your last chance to turn any iphone in any condition into a new

iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. that's up to $1700 in value. only on verizon. the subway series is taking your favorite to the next level! like the #20. the elite chicken and bacon ranch. built with rotisserie-style chicken and double cheese. i love what i'm seeing here. that's some well-coached chicken. you done, peyton? the subway series just keeps gettin' better. sure, i'm a paid actor, and this is not a real company, but there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. search talent all over the world with over 10,000 skills you may not have in house. more than 30% of the fortune 500 use upwork because this is how we work now. a short time after colorado's supreme court ruled that donald trump should not appear on that state's republican primary ballot, the former president spoke at a campaign event in iowa.

he did not address the decision. instead, he reprised his condemned comments about immigrants poisoning the blood of the country. >> it's true, they are destroying the blood of our country. that's what they're doing. they are destroying our country. they don't like it when i said that. i never read hitler. they said hitler said that in a different way. they are destroying the blood of our country. they are destroying the fabric of our country. we will have to get them out. >> it's the second time the leading republican presidential candidate has used that rhetoric which does compare to hitler. joining us now, phil rucker, susan page and former republican congressman charlie dent. phil, let's start with the colorado supreme court decision. the president has a 30-point

lead over his nearest challenger in iowa. even in new hampshire where nikki haley has been maing strides, there's a 15-point lead. the indictments made him stronger. this colorado ruling could do the same. >> yeah. andrea, this colorado ruling could very likely work in trump's favor politically as he tries to secure the republican nomination starting next month. every time prosecutors or grand juries turned up indictments against him earlier this year, he seemed to increase his popularity among republican voters. he plays the victim card very well. it's part of his political strategy for years. i think this is another instance of a legal system, a court system that -- the state supreme court in colorado in this case trying to take an action against him, and i just have a feeling that this is going to furthe

embolden trump supporters. >> congressman dent, the leading challengers are saying that voters should decide, not the courts. we heard from chris christie. we heard from nikki haley and certainly desantis, whether trump belongs in the white house, he is campaigning. they are campaigning for second place. what do you think about the republican challengers not taking him on more confrontationally? >> i think that trump is going to play the victim. he is going to monetize this ruling. i think that chris christie and nikki haley did strike the right tone saying the voters need to take down donald trump, not the courts. there was an opportunity to have trump removed from the ballot and it was through the impeachment process. regrettably, the united states senate acquitted donald trump in 2021 when they had the chance to

take him out all together. that's where we are. it seems to me that absent some kind of a conviction of donald trump on the question of insurrection, i think it's going to make it really difficult to disenfranchise his voters. his conduct has been reprehensible. i think that this ruling will help trump in so many ways. he is going to talk about election interference and meddling and how this is so unfair, the system is rigged. you heard it all before. that's what he is going to do. i do think this decision -- hopefully, the supreme court will hear this and probably allow him on the ballot. as hard as that is. >> susan, president biden was asked about this, about the court decision. he said, i'm not going to comment on it. that's up to the court. that's all i'm going to say on that. he is staying out of it. president trump, of course, doubling down on the comments about immigrants and the blood

of the country. presumably, he thinks that's going to help him with his base. >> no reason for president biden to get into this right now. former president trump continues to talk in words that have great historical resonance and not in a positive way in quoting things that adolf hitler said, depicting immigrants as less than fully human. this is something we have heard at other times in other situations with disastrous consequences. i think it is of concern. although, i agree with my two colleagues here that for those -- in such a divided nation, to have a big question like this decided by the supreme court, maybe by a 5-4 decision, would be problematic. the way to -- for those who are critical of trump who want to get him off the political stage,

i think the way to do that is to lose an election. >> phil, susan, charlie, thanks to all of you. happy holidays to you all. deal or no deal? as the israeli prime minister vows to not back down in the war against hamas, the u.n. security council is meeting at this hour amid a push for a new cease-fire in gaza. that's next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. this is msnbc. ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms,

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right now at the u.n., the u.n. security council will be meeting -- they are meeting now and getting to the palestine issue, trying to adopt a hostage release and cease-fire resolution to try to press for ending the israel/hamas war. they delayed that vote for 24 hours yesterday. they tried to work out language the united states would accept. they introduced a draft with no changes so far. that's almost guaranteed to fail and be vetoed by the u.s., which has put the u.s. in a really uncomfortable position of standing alone, without its allies, supporting israel against a resolution condemning the violence but which does not also condemn what hamas did on october 7th. inside israel, protesters have called for negotiations with hamas to facilitate the release of scores of hostages still being held. those calls have not been loud enough to impact the israeli government military strategy so

far. the idf striking 300 targets over the last 24 hours, including a mosque in rafah this morning. benjamin netanyahu saying today, israel will not stop fighting until we achieve all the goals. the head of hamas' political bureau did arrive in cairo for talks. the latest round of hostage talks appear to be picking up pace. joining me now is michael crowley and with us collin clark. let's get right to it, michael. we think that something is changing in israel. we heard today from president herzog, netanyahu has to hold his hard line publically. we know the israel government, under pressure from hostage families after the deaths of the three by friendly fire on friday, is feeling tremendous

pressure at home domestically to try to get them out. >> andrea, thanks for having me on. it has been an incredibly difficult balance for the israelis. obviously, the imperative of getting the hostages out is enormous. israel has been willing to pay a huge price to get prisoners back, specifically from hamas in one case more than 1,000 palestinian prisoners released by the israelis to get back one israeli soldier. they have that massive imperative. on the other hand, the enormous imperative of striking back at hamas after the october 7th attacks and destroying hamas and its infrastructure. those two goals have always been in a state of enormous tension. i think you just saw this -- the most horrendous illustration when the three israeli hostages were shot a few days ago. i think as you note, that prompted a reassessment in

israel of what's prioritized and how and whether it's time for another break. i think it just may have increased pressure on netanyahu and his government to a point where they had to reconsider their course of action. >> michael, let's talk for a moment about secretary blinken. he has been pushing for a humanitarian pause. the language in the u.n. resolution was too categorical for the u.s. to accept, which did isolate the u.s. secretary blinken was asked about a hostage release which would accompany a pause in negotiations that are clearly gaining steam. this just happened at a news conference this morning. >> israel has been very clear, including as recently as today, that it would welcome returning to a pause and the further release of hostages. the problem is and has been and remain has maas. they reneged on commitments they made during the first pause for hostage releases.

the question is whether they are, in fact, willing to resume this effort. i think what's important to always remember is that virtually none of the challenges we are dealing with are like flipping a light switch. you suddenly get total success in the course of a day, a week, a month, even a year. it is almost always a process and a constant effort to get to a better place. >> collin, do we think the arrival in cairo of the hamas political leader is significant? one of the problems with the talks is they have been going through the go betweens through qatar. are there direct talks underway that egypt is involved with? >> it appears that way. we see top political leadership making an effort to talk details. i think as they say, the devil is in the details.

we will find out how long of a potential cease-fire. one week or two weeks? what's the ratio for hostages to palestinian prisoners? that could be a potential tripping point. from a strategic perspective, can some kind of temporary trees be translated into something more sustainable, something more long-term? we see the u.s. and european allies try to push the israelis in this direction. >> have you seen any sign that netanyahu and his coalition, his defense minister, are listening to the appeals? lloyd austin was in the region, in israel in person as well as secretary blinken repeatedly, and jake sullivan. >> it's hard to say. as michael pointed out, there's been a tension from day one over the israeli imperative to destroy hamas, which is has claimed as its stated objective, and to rescue the remaiingremai

hostages. the israelis are balancing that along with domesti political pressure. i'm slightly optimistic. but it's no guarantee. >> michael, the administration is being criticized because the president has been so vocal about his embrace of israel, as have -- and their goals to eliminate hamas, as has the rest of the national security cabinet. privately and now publically in the last week and a half or so, we have heard a change in the rhetoric. they are growing less and less patient with the way israel is progressing this war and the way that the u.s. is, frankly, isolated in the world. it's viewed by most of the world as the israel/u.s. war with

gaza. >> that's right, andrea. i'm talking to the from the state department. i came from secretary blinken's press conference. he talked about this. he used personal language saying that watching -- while he reaffirmed israel's -- what he calls israel's right to defend itself and to attack hamas, he said it's been gut wrenching to see the toll in gaza. took great pains to explain that the u.s. has been working hard to try to get more aid into gaza and do things to try to mitigate the humanitarian crisis there. on the larger point, despite rhetoric like that and actions like that, the u.s. is isolated. i'm struck by the turnaround in the year and a half or so after the russian invasion of ukraine, i think america was widely seen as leading the world, pulling to the this great diplomatic coalition to stand up against russia. speaking with more clarity in the united nations, rallying the

security council to condemn russia. now you find the u.s. in this sort of isolated diplomatic crouch, accused of moral hypocrisy with a lot of democrat says furious at the bideed a -- administration. >> michael, collin, thanks to both of you. the unfinished business. there's a lot of t. lawmakers trying to head home for the holidays. the senate going out today. the house has been out all week. major circumstan issues on the . senator chris coons of delaware joining us next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc.

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the senate is gone. the house was gone. there won't be more votes whether the new year. there's a group of senators talking,motely on an immigration deal which has been blocking the aid for israel and ukraine. the homeland security secretary did arrive to meet with some key negotiators in those talks. garrett haake joins me now. what will you do with all of your guys gone? >> i'm sure we will think of something. >> donald trump and everything else you are covering. the fact that the house spent 21

days without a speaker and got nothing done, that they then spent all this time arguing about something as big as immigration, which has bedevilled congresses under republican and democratic presidents for decades, and that is holding up aid to ukraine, which is out of ammo or getting out of ammo. >> the ambitions of the congress and its track record do not match in any sense. the house is long gone. this is the least productive congress in modern history. senators wrapped up their official business last night. that small group did stay hold. mayorkas was on the hill for an hour. he met with sinema and murphy. i'm not sure if langford were there. they told reporters, they are going home. they will talk remotely. they understand that despite the very challenging specific circumstances, like record breaking numbers of migrants crossing we are seeing now, and the broader macro picture of

immigration that hasn't been done in four decades, they think they can get to some deal perhaps early in the new year. i'm skeptical. the people involved do actually have a pretty good track record of working on complex issues. they will keep talking over the break. we will keep talking about this well into january, i imagine. >> president zelenskyy had a news conference yesterday, i believe. what the ukrainians are talking about is their troops, some 500,000 short of troops. the troops are in fox holes, wet fox holes with rats and other horrible animals going through. they don't have enough ammunition or counter -- to defend themselves properly. >> the ukrainians are in dire straits. you can't find 400,000 people. those folks don't exist in a ready way. i'm struck as i have been thinking about this, as we have been covering it, the degree to

which the conversation shifted in the republican favor. we are talking about this as an immigration bill or immigration negotiation here. this is all about foreign aid. it's about the ukraine aid, the trickiest piece, and the aid to israel, which hasn't gone out since october 7. it has been framed around the immigration part of it. that's a strategic victory for republicans that we are talking about it in that manner. the actual fight is going to go on through the holidays. the ukrainians will still need the very little help that we have left on our current drawdown authority that the white house could provide. this has to get settled for geopolitical reasons, not just domestic reasons. >> in terms of political problems for the president on this, he has already apparently conceded some issues on immigration on asylum and parole. it will cause -- are causing problems with part of his base.

>> the oldest cliche is nothing is decided until everything is decided. we believe big changes to the asylum system and to parole is on the table here. it's a small needle for the president to thread. he wants to get credit for unlocking the foreign aid but get credit for fixing an immigration system. if the fixes might be offensive to members of his coalition, that's a separate problem. we heard from the hispanic caucus that they are upset about what they have heard of this deal. i'm hesitant to put too much stock in one element of it until we see actual words on paper. there's a reason it hasn't been solved in decades. it's complex to the coalitions on both sides. there are republicans who would rather have this fail and continue to run immigration than have a fix, whether it works well or not, that they would have to stop talking about this issue. >> garrett haake, thank you so

much. joining us now is chris coons, who is a member appropriations, foreign relations and judiciary committee. your colleagues have left. i see you are still there. one wonders, when you all come back, you will crash right into the deadline for funding the government, not just the supplemental, which is also in january. how is that going to get done plus somehow come up with a compromise on immigration before you do foreign aid? >> there are two decisions that i am prayerfully, hopefully awaiting positive movement on. in warsaw, ongoing negotiations about a renewed humanitarian cease-fire in the war in gaza. a pause that would allow for the release of dozens of hostages, including americans, and for more humanitarian aid to get into gaza. that ongoing negotiation, that discussion between the united

states, israel and the qataries representing hamas, i hope will achieve some positive breakthrough. here in washington, there are ongoing negotiations, as you know, between republicans and democrats about this critical supplemental. we have to provide more support to the brave ukrainians who are weathering an ongoing onslaught from russian troops on their eastern and southern fronts. we have to do this to sustain our reputation notice world as a critical and trustworthy ally. president biden, as you know, has mobilized 50 other countries that in combination have delivered more support for ukraine than we have. if we pass this additional supplemental funding request, most of it will actually go into creating jobs here in the united states in munitions plants that will be sending munitions to the ukrainians. all of this hangs on a critical

point, which is whether or not the border security talks, which are now drafting language and exchanging concrete proposals, can conclude in the next ten days. i'm optimistic, given what i have heard from the folks at the table, even hopeful. but there are a lot of devils in the details in these two big things that have to happen in the coming days. >> despite the rhetoric from israel's government right now, you are still confident those talks are still going -- excuse me, going on in warsaw and that there's still the possibility for a humanitarian pause and a hostage release? >> well, one area where president biden's active engagement has made a difference is in the opening of the kerem shalom passage. there has been progress. there's also lots of pressure on the israeli government from the families of the hostages.

there was a tragic incident in recent days where three hostages were killed by mistake, by idf troops. there's a lot of concern about the dramatic suffering, the humanitarian catastrophe on the ground as palestinians, who are not supporters of hamas, suffer the effects of israel's ongoing war against hamas. i'm hopeful that all these different forces in combination will bring a renewed cease-fire and the release of more hostages and the opportunity for another round of negotiations about the path forward for israel and for the palestinian people. >> defense secretary lloyd austin made an unannounced visit to the "uss gerald ford," calling it a linchpin to middle east deterrence. you have been working on ways to combat iran and their proxies. the administration is being criticized by republicans, other critics as well, for not

providing enough deterrence against iran and against particularly iran-backed houthis who are firing on international shipping in the red sea and potentially other pathways. >> secretary austin is there in no small part to reinforce the very strong step to deter iran that president biden took immediately following october 7th. he deployed two aircraft carrier battle groups to the region. he sent a forceful message publically and privately to iran and their proxies to stay out of this fight between israel and hamas. the houthis have continued to fire drones at missiles. our ships in the region in the red sea have intercepted.

secretary austin is there visiting "gerald ford" to reinforce the leadership to pull together a multi-national coalition to confront the houthis and to secure freedom of navigation in the red sea. this is a critical moment. i'm confident that we will move forward on it. i just introduced a resolution, a bipartisan resolution with 14 senators urging the administration to continue its strong steps to deter iran. >> senator chris coons, thank you so much. happy holiday to you. a short time ago, president biden arriving in milwaukee to deliver a speech on the economy, spoke about the colorado supreme court decision to keep donald trump off the ballot. telling the president, that's up to the court. then he did add something. we just got this in. let's watch. >> is trump an insurrectionist, sir? >> i think it's self-evident. you saw it all. whether the 14th amendment

applies, let the court decide. he supported insurrection. there's no question about it. none, zero. he seems to be doubling down. >> that a reference, of course, to the fact that the president -- former president trump has again repeated his rhetoric about immigrants poisoning the american bloodstream. the colorado supreme court cited the 14th amendment that prevents anyone who engages in public insurrection to engage in public office. suing the state. the ucla challenging -- the aclu suing. and my favorite homes are wayfair homes. i even stop by on my day off! i know what people want, and you've got just what they need.

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sparking a flurry lawsuits by advocates for migrants. the aclund other immigration rights orgions are suing the state and governor greg abbott to try to block a strict new measure tt uld allow state and local police to arrest people suspected of crossing the border illegally and then deport them. the aclu says the law is unconstitutional and an overreach of the u.s. government's authority on immigration by the state. joining me now is deputy director of the immigrants rights project at the aclu. tell me about your lawsuit and what, you know, what you think -- why you think what texas did is not constitutional? >> texas's law is clearly unlawful, unconstitutional, in our view under existing supreme court precedent that says regulating and enforcing immigration law at the border is a federal prerogative, and so that means that it's wonder

what's technically called the supremacy clause, the federal government has exclusive authority to do this, states cannot pass laws that intrude on that and conflict with federal authority. this law is by far the most extreme out there and will result in many mistakes profiling, not just because border those texas agents are untrained, but also because of the very way that the law is structured. so for example, under federal law, someone has the right to apply for asylum and can't just be kicked out. although as you pointed out on this show, asylum is under threat, but under federal law people have the right to apply for asylum. this texas law just allows texas to jail people and then remove them without giving them the right to apply for asylum or any of the other forms of relief under federal law, so we're just going to see mass expulsions without people getting their federal rights, and that's why the supreme court itself has said the states cannot do things

like this. >> and how would the law, if it goes into effect impact the communities there? >> it will absolutely affect the communities because people will be arrested and deported. and i think people will be living in fear of texas agents constantly picking them up, making mistakes, even if they're not here illegally. you touched on this in an earlier segment. with the former president and front runner in the republican debate now talking about immigrants as vermin and poisoning the blood of the country, this is a horrible time for congress to be talking about restricting asylum, taking that historic move and restricting asylum or ending asylum after we made a solemn promise after world war ii not to do it, and you see what it's fostering is these kinds of state laws that have absolutely no regard for immigrants. >> thank you very much. >> thanks, andrea.

and take warning, new nbc news exclusive reporting on what china's president told joe biden last month and what it means for taiwan. that's next, kristen welker will be here. you're watching msnbc. you're watching msnbc. ipping sh. plop plop fizz fizz winter warriors with alka-seltzer plus. (husband) ♪ hey there family! while you're shopping, ♪ ♪ get me a 5g phone, it's on my list. ♪ winter warriors (wife) instead of doing all of this a better plan is to switch to verizon. (avo) this holiday turn any samsung phone, in any condition, into a galaxy s23+ on us. and now add netflix and max to your plan for just $10 a month. only on verizon. i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. [sniff] still fresh. ♪♪ get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection.

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this, "meet the press" moderator kristen welker. there are a lot of things that the team, that our national security team, carol lee, courtney kube, you -- >> and you. >> this team found out really what was being said in this candid conversation that was described by the white house and the state department in san francisco last month. >> absolutely. this was a blunt but candid conversation, not confrontational, but we are told by three sources, current and former officials who are familiar with this conversation that president xi said to president biden that he does intend to reunify taiwan and that he has not chosen a time line to do that yet. he was also apparently complaining about the elections in taiwan. and prior to this meeting, chinese officials had asked that president biden issue a statement supporting chinese reunification, something that of

course the president and the white house did not do. we've just gotten fresh exclusiveeaction from senator lindsey graham to this reporting. i'm going to read y what he says. he calls the story as reported yond unnerving. he goes on to say,quote, i will be working with the democratic two things quickly.tors to do first, cre a robustefse supplemental for taiwan and second, draft preinvasion sanctions from hell to impose on china if they take action to seize taiwan. i believe there is strong bipartisan support to stand up to chinese communist aggression. so that is how senator lindsey graham is responding. again, we are just starting to get this response coming in. andrea, though, taking a step back, the big picture here. look, this is consistent with the messaging that president xi has conveyed for years as it relates to taiwan. what is significant, though, is the setting in which he delivered this message, the fact that he said it directly to president biden. the fact that this took place at a meeting that was really

intended to lower the temperature between these two leaders and between these two countries in the wake of the chinese spy balloon incident last year. so it was a moment that caused officials to take note in the room. what does it mean? what, if any, time line is he looking at? all of that remains to be seen, andrea. it certainly does raise fresh concerns about china's aggression. >> and it already creates political problems for this president because he wants to try to lower the temperature, as does president xi, president xi because he has economic problems at home and president biden because he knows that the global economy really depends on that. so that's a re-election issue, but the politics of it are terrible because of the unpopularity of china and the way republicans are framing china as the aggressor, which it is in many cases militarily right now. >> absolutely, and i think this will be -- look, a very big issue on the campaign trail in 2024. there's no doubt about that.

but this is going to be a key test. of course there are going to be elections in taiwan. >> it's january 13th is coming upon us. >> yes, exactly. just around the corner, and again, we know that president xi was complaining about that. now, look, president biden has said publicly that the united states would defend taiwan if china were to invade, a statement that the white house has walked back and softened a bit, but we have heard this president take a very tough line as it relates to china, so we'll watch it closely. >> that's one of the reasons why it's complicated because he's said that we would defend taiwan and then they walk it back because that is supposed to be ambiguous the way these things work. >> exactly, strategic ambiguity. >> nothing ambiguous about the reporting your team did. >> thank you. >> kristen welker, thank you. join kristen for a very special year end show sunday on "meet the press." that