during treatment, they found comfort through her excruciating pain when she was given a mermaid doll. now that she's on the mend, she's paying it forward by collecting dolls to give to other pediatric burn patients. >> we had a lot of little kitds come in recently. to be able to hand them a doll and to see their little faces light up, it's been a wonderful holiday season so far. >> this month, just this month, they donated nearly 70 dolls. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. up next, andrea mitchell speaks with the senior advisor to israeli prime minister benjamin

netanyahu. a grim milestone. an estimated 20,000 people killed in gaza since the start of the war. hamas says it won't negotiate more hostage releases until israel agrees to a total cease-fire. joining me now, a top netanyahu advisor. we learn tragic new details about the three israeli hostages mistakenly shot by israeli troops. ten americans released from venezuela arrive back home after a controversial prisoner swap with nicholas maduro. violent threats facing colorado supreme court justices after a state ruling banning donald trump from colorado's primary ballot. breaking news from prague where at least ten people have been killed in a mass shooting. more than a dozen people have

been injured. we will have the latest coming up next. ♪♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. the death toll in gaza has climbed past an estimated 20,000 people since the war started. that estimate, according to the hamas-run ministry of health, which says it includes at least 8,000 children. doctors without borders say that could be underestimating the actual death count. our colleague of sky news witnessed the destruction after an israeli air strike wednesday outside a hospital in rafah. that's where civilians have been told they would be safe. >> reporter: the injured are being carried away. our team rushed toward the site, they keep digging in the earth to find anyone they can.

dead or alive. there is little by way of official help here anymore. they're alone. this is gaza. this is happening every single day. >> the world health organization says it has never seen suffering like what is happening in gaza. civilians face starvation antd -- and are dying of thirst and disease. >> everywhere i go in gaza, it's hunger. the time is now. we are dealing with starving people now. adults, children, it's unbearable. >> at the u.n., deadlock as the security council cannot agree who should monitor aid delivers into gaza, israel or the u.n. secretary of state blinken

yesterday. >> i hear virtually no one saying, demanding of hamas that it stop hiding behind civilians, that it lay down its arms, that is surrender. had is over tomorrow if hamas does that. >> hamas says there will be no hostage deal until israeli forces pull back, adding to the prsure on israel, the idf says unreleased video from a military dog's go-pro confirming the three hostages shot by israeli soldiers last week while waving a white flag, they had escaped five days earlier and were in hiding until mistakenly shot by the idf. we start with ambassador regev. the hostages were israel's responsible. it's heartbreaking to the families. what can you tell us -- they

escaped during a fire fight between israeli forces trying to free hostages, who killed their captors, but the dog's camera showed what happened. >> correct. unfortunately, we didn't have the information in real time. it could have saved the lives of those three hostages. the intelligence briefing that our troops on the ground received was to expect to see hostages in some underground dungeon, in a nnel, in a dark room. there wasn't an expectation that our hostages wod be walking around the streets. that was obviously a lapse, because that's where they were. they were, as you know, inadvertently shot. a real tragedy, not just for the families. first and foremost for the families, but for the idf and all israelis. a terrible tragedy. >> do we know how they managed to survive for five days? be hid to determine.

>> i don't know. if they were alive, they could tell us their stories. unfortunately, they can't. it's clear they were brave young men, very capable of dealing with adversity. the mere facat escaped means they deserve a medal. it ended in a tragic way. we can only fear for the families. what the military calls blue on blue deaths, friendly fire, it's always tragic. this is even more so. these were civilians. the goal is to save these people and to inadvertently, accidentally to kill them is a terrible, terrible thing. >> now hamas said it will not negotiate. that's what's coming out of egyptian sources where the leader of hamas was earlier this week. they won't negotiate for a deal until -- a deal that israel offered for a cease-fire, perhaps of seven days, until

there's a humanitarian pause for seven days, and more hostage releases, until there's a complete cease-fire, is that the state of play as far as you know it? >> i apologize. i'm not permitted to go into details as of the talks. i can only tell you the following. we're in communication with the americans, with the qataries, egyptians. we will not waste any real opportunity that exists to get our people out. as you know, there's over 100 people still being held. we worry about them. we know what hamas is capable of. we heard stories of the first group of hostages that were released, those released at the end of november. we heard about the physical and psychological abuse that they went through, including the children. of course, we are worried. hamas is brutal. they're not going to suddenly

release these hostages because they are suddenly going to respect humanitarian law. no. they will respond, as president biden said, they will respond to pressure. we believe increasing the military pressure, the idf pressure on the hamas military machine, that can expedite the release of hostages. hamas understands that we will only agree to a pause in the fighting for the release of hostages. hamas wants that pause, as we increase the pressure, they will increasingly want that pause. we believe we will get more people out. >> i do want to play more of the sky news reporting from inside rafah. this was moments after an israeli strike. >> reporter: there are screams and sirens as a drone circles overhead with a threat of more missiles there are women under here, one man shouts.

the body of a dead child is found and taken away. we don't know why this target was hit. people in gaza had been told rafah was safe. >> the question is, rafah was supposed to be a safe area. it's in the south. it was outside a hospital where that took place. our sky news correspondent was there. this is not anecdotal. israel has been -- let's put it this way. you have had jake sullivan. you've had defense secretary austin. you've had tony blinken all very publically -- and the president of the united states saying that israel has do a better job of targeting and of trying to minimize the casualties. isn't this an example of that not taking place? >> i understand this is an example of that exactly taking place. there was a target of

opportunity in rafah. a senior hamas commander. we surgically strike the building where he was. he, of course, was next to a hospital, because that's how hamas work. they try to embed themselves using the civilians and humanitarian sites like hospitals, schools, mosques as a shield for their military machine. i understand there was no damage to the hospital. we hit the target we wanted to hit. of course, because hamas is an authoritarian ruler, brutal ruler, no one can say to the cameras anything but the hamas line. my understanding was this was a surgical strike against a terrorist commander. there was -- if you look at the smoke that i can see, you see it's a specific strike against a specific location. this is not some indiscriminate targeting of civilians. >> did you get the commander that you were trying to get?

>> that's not clear to me. my briefing is a few hours old. i'm not aware if we got the man that we intended to. i hope we did. once again, this is a surgical strike. for a target of opportunity. when one of these people appears on the screen and we can get him, we will get him. just as the americans would if there was a senior al qaeda or i.s.i.s. person. these are the people who commanded the october 7th atrocity where they burned people alive, beheaded people where they raped and murdered women. crimes against humanity. the people responsible will be brought to justice. >> is there any prospect of getting more hostages out? the women who have not come out, some of the elderly people. >> we hope so. we spoke about that a moment ago. we think as we beef up the military pressure on hamas's military machine, and they become more desperate for a pause in the fighting, maybe we can get these people out. you are right, there's a group

of men over the age of 70 being still held hostage with numerous health problems. there was some terrible prop began saturday videos they put out. i know you know of three elderly men. one 79, two over 80 still being held by hamas. the women they promised to release but reneged. 17 women and children still held by hamas. these are people that hamas agreed to release in a list. as you heard the white house saying, hamas had agreed to this and they reneged on the commitment. we have to understand who we are dealing with. we are dealing with ruthless terrorists. we are dealing with very, very difficult people. of course, any attempt to get our hostages out will always be difficult. it's always like pulling teeth. it's very, very, very painful. we will succeed in the end. we will get people out.

we have to be patient. we have do this right. beefing up the pressure on hamas is the way to expedite release of hostages. >> there are reports that you are not succeeding in getting the key commanders you have been trying to get. is that a disappointment so far? >> so far, we have hit a lot of the command structure. you are right, the two or three people at the top of the hamas pyramid are still evading us. that's only a matter of time. it took the united states a while to get bin laden. you got him. we know where they are. we know the area where they are hiding. it's a matter of time. we will eliminate hamas's senior leadership. as i said before, these people who are responsible for the most atrocious, gruesome crimes against humanity, what happened on october 7th, the largest single terror attack since 9/11

in the united states, and it was the largest active anti-semitic violence, murder since the terrible years of the holocaust. justice will be done. >> ambassador, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. coming up, terrible breaking news from prague. police say a mass shooting has left at least 15 people dead. the gunman is reportedly dead as well. the latest on the investigation. this happened near a leading university in the center of prague. that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in 60 seconds. you are watching msnbc. watchingc emergen-c crystals. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? downy unstoppables in wash scent booster keep your laundry smelling fresh way longer than detergent alone. get 6x longer-lasting freshness plus odor production with downy unstopables.

try for under $5. we have breaking news. police say at least 15 people are dead and several dozen others injured after a mass shooting at charles university in central prague. police say the gunman was a student at the university and is confirmed dead.

molly hunter has been monitoring the developments and joins me now with more. molly, this is so rare, a mass gun attack, rare in the czech republic, rare in europe. what do we know? >> extremely rare in central europe. there's a press conference going on right now. if i look down at my notes, i'm getting the latest from our producer at the press conference, outside of charles university right now. what we know from police in the last ten minutes, since it press conference started, as you mentioned, more than 15 people dead. attacker also dead. at least 24 people injured. police stress the numbers are not final. this is an ongoing operation. they are still evacuaing the university to try to ascertain the full damage. those numbers may change. what we know about the attacker, according to police in this press conference, it is a male, 24-year-old charles university student. police say his father was found dead earlier today. they say the bodies of the

victims have not yet been identified. the interior minister, who is also at the press conference, has just said, there's no information that this incident would be connected to international terrorism. there has been no motive given. there's been no real detail about how about the attack started. we got the alert from police, we saw a statement on x two hours ago. this is an ongoing operation at charles university. it's in the center of prague in the old town. a crowded area just a week before christmas. >> incredible tragedy. this is a very populated tourist area. it's one of the most beautiful places in prague. thank you very much, molly. appreciate it. in texas last night, six former hostages, americans who had been wrongfully detained in venezuela, arrived on u.s. soil. all ten americans were returned as part of a prisoner swap. a california mortgage broker spoke after one of them got off

the plane in texas. >> very emotional, exciting, grateful. so much gratitude for the moment for the united states of america, for all of you. for the opportunity to come home. i didn't know if i would ever make it out. it's scary to be in a place when you are used to having freedom and you are locked into a cell. >> in exchange for the release, the biden administration freed a top ally of venezuela's president, who had been indicted for money laundering, and lifted sanctions on venezuelan oil in an exchange to move toward free elections. republicans were quick to slam the deal. marco rubio calling it disgraceful. monica alba joins me now. what is the white house saying about the prisoner swap, which

they acknowledge was a difficult decision for the president? >> reporter: extremely difficult, but one the president says he had to make because he wanted to see these americans come home. they had been determined to be wrongfully detained. it isn't something that they take lightly. they really have to calculate the different political implications. they know and they really asserted this overnight, that they believe that because maduro committed to making some changes in terms of free and fair elections for 2024, that that is something that was worthwhile. here is president biden specifically defending this decision in light of criticism that this could send a message to other countries to detain u.s. citizens who might be abroad. >> it's okay because we freed people held illegally. made a deal with venezuela that they will hold free elections.

they maintain that requirement. that's it. >> reporter: it comes as the u.s. is trying to improve relations with venezuela. it eased sanctions in october, hoping for some of these changes to the government. also in exchange for this deal, they did release that columbian businessman. then the u.s. also, from this, is getting someone known as leonard francis, or fat leonard involved in a u.s. navy bribery scandal. he fled to venezuela. he has been arrested, returned to u.s. soil where he will now face a delayed sentencing for those charges. >> monica alba at the white house, thank you so much. a threat. colorado supreme court justices facing death threats and more after they ruled donald trump can't be on the colorado ballot. details next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in a few minutes after a quick break. but i want to stay in my home,

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since the colorado supreme court decision barring donald trump from that state's republican primary ballot, unless the u.s. supreme court intervenes, social media has been flooded with threats against the justices. nbc news obtained a report from the non-profit group advanced democracy that identified, quote, significant violent etoric against the justices. they included threats like this

post on a fringe website which reads, kill judges, behead judges, groundhouse kick a judge into the ground. who are these people? joining me now, vaughn hillyard and with us is paul butler, a former federal prosecutor and professor at georgetown law. vaughn, let's talk about the fallout and how republican candidates are reacting. they are all coming to donald trump's defense, even those who have been mildly or seriously critical of him, like chris christie. >> i will let paul get into the legal. this is difficult. we heard from nikki haley say it should be up to voters to decide donald trump's fate, not judges. we have heard ron desantis come to his defense saying the supreme court should reverse the colorado supreme court's decision. ramaswamy suggested he would remove himself from the ballot in colorado in solidarity with donald trump. what you are watching run

parallel to these serious conversations about whether donald trump should be disqualified for having engaged in insurrection or not are part of the american population that are engaged in violent, graphic, explicit conversations as it pertains to threats they are levying online against, in this situation, the justices on the colorado supreme court. you said it, one individual threatening to behead the justices. another suggesting they should be found at the bottom of the ocean. this is part of a pattern we are seeing. they talk about a potential civil war, one that has real engagement of violence. we also see the attack on paul pelosi. last year, the man arrested outside of justice kavanaugh's house with zip ties and a glock

in hand. just here in the last 20 minutes, the department of justice announcing charges against a delaware man for explicit threats against the lives of three presidential candidates, threatening to blow their heads off, threatening to disembowel and impale them to engage in the killing of everyone at one of their campaign events. these are serious concerns. this is not just one or two americans, but what we are seeing is a pattern as outlined in this report, threats that come after these legal battles that donald trump particularly is engaged in. no. just from the left but also violence and threats against individuals, political figures on the right. >> paul, the colorado supreme court, that decision is getting mixed reviews. even among republicans, judge ludig, the original author of a

story -- an article circulated that the 14th amendment did have this provision and it could be used to remove trump from the ballot, and then on the other side is former attorney general bill barr who became a critic, belatedly, many would say, very belatedly, but thinks had is just bad law. let's watch what they had to say. >> the ruling by the colorado supreme court yesterday is not a political decision in any way sense whatsoever. it was a pure and majestic judicial opinion of constitutional law. >> i think that this case is legally wrong and untenable. i think this kind of action of stretching the law taking these hyperaggressive positions to try to knock trump out of the race are counterproductive. they backfire. as you know, he feeds on grievance.

>> he is fund-raising on this and will probably gain more leverage in a primary he is dominating, because there's so much reaction, especially among the republican base against him. >> the colorado supreme court justices who said that trump is disqualified based on the constitution anticipated this kind of response. they acknowledged that this was a controversial issue and also an issue of first impression. there hasn't been anyone removed from office based on section 3 since 1869, since the end of the civil war. only one person since then has been successfully removed from office. that doesn't mean it's a political case. a number of conservative scholars and judges have suggested the former president

should be disqualified. there were three democratically appointed justices on the colorado supreme court who disagree with the majority. i think it's disingenuous to say it's political. not only is it disingenuous, it's dangerous based on the consequences that you just talked about. >> we can see the horrific consequences. chief justice roberts had been under threat. we learned from some recent disclosures from the justice department the fact that people would go after the judiciary. we have seen the effects of violence. there have been deaths. i do want to ask about a separate case. the rudy giuliani case. the judge is not giving him the normal 30 days to come up with the money. they petitioned saying, we think he will move money around. >> the judge does not trust giuliani to pay up.

why should he since he has ignored other orders to pay attorney's fees. they are concerned he would use the ordinary 30-day waiting period he has to hide his assets. rudy is not broke, according to the lawyers for the plaintiffs. s. >> that's remarkable to con. >> tommy: plate. thank you very much.

a devastating toll as the death toll in gaza passes 20,000 people. the long-term impact of the operation there and the continuing conflict with hamas. that's next on "andrea mitchell reports," only on msnbc. hi! need new glasses? get more from your benefits at visionworks. how can you see me squinting? i can't! i'm just telling everyone! ...hey! use your vision benefits before they expire. visionworks. see the difference. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. i was a bit nervous at first but then i figured it's just walking, right? [dog barks] oh. no it's just a bunny! calm down taco. sit duchess. stop! sesame no no. archie! walter don't, no, ahhhh.

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75 ok days after israel fir launched air strikes in retaliation for the hamas

attack, the death toll in gaza continues to climb. an estimated 20,000 gazans have been killed. the u.n. says 570,000 are starving. joining us now is admiral james stavridis. i remember many conversations before the israeli offensive started about how dense the population is there and how difficult it would be. you said this would be fallujah on steroids, what we experienced in iraq. the urban warfare is that difficult. you have had the defense secretary and tony blinken meeting with the israeli war cabinet, pleading with them publically and privately to target their shootings, their attack. mark regev, an experienced diplomat and political leader, was saying that the rafah strike in the south, it supposedly is a

safe zone, was a targeted attack. as a military analyst, is there any way to go after the hamas leaders that they want to get and still not have these kinds of civilian casualties? which are really intolerable from a humanitarian perspective, as well as politically now. secretary austin warning they could lose the war because of this. >> indeed. this is an absolute element in combat today. it is this global narrative. israel is losing. it will affect them in terms of resources that they are able to receive. for example, you are seeing the weakening of support here in the united states. it will affect them long-term economically if sanctions are applied to them. it will also affect them in that every time an innocent civilian

is killed, the military age male in that family is going to turn to hamas and become a hamas foot soldier. you can't kill your way to victory in a setting like this. what israel needs to do -- that's the message that team biden has been relaying, i think, very effectively in terms of outreach and balancing the private and public, they have got to -- the israelis have got to reduce the numbers of collateral damage count here. it's got to be done using more special forces, more precision guided strikes, and go after the leadership but separate them from the population. it's very difficult to do. i do sense the israelis are starting to move more in that direction, because they realize if they don't, they are going to

lose this conflict in the eyes of the world, no matter how the facts on the ground come out. >> hamas has a huge propaganda advantage. we are not talking about the palestinian civilians in gaza, but the visuals are just so horrendous, the suffering of the israelis on october 7th and since, their hostages having been taken, in terms of the public attitudes in europe and the middle east, it begins to fade. >> yeah. it does. if you are managing this conflict from jerusalem, you have three things you have to do. they often come in conflict. one is, you have got to continue to press to try and recover the hostages, either by negotiation or by finding them and extracting them in a rescue operation. very hard. number two, what you and i have

been discussing, when you go into a zone like that and you assume control of it, you own the humanitarian challenge. they have got to continue to get the supplies in to maintain this population. third and finally, on the military side, they have to go after hamas but kind of alongside that, they have got to destroy, decommission these tunnels. the tunnels are the superpower of hamas. they must -- the israelis must knock those out explosively, flooding, whatever it takes. they have to do that in order to keep israeli babies safe in their nurseries, something that failed them so dramatically on the 7th of october. really tough challenges to knit those three things together. >> the missions are conflicted. you go after the tunnels, you

inevitably are killing civilians. we saw the tragedy with the three hostages, a dramatic, horrific example of friendly fire. let me turn to china. the u.s. and chineseilitaries have spoken to each other for the first time in more than a year. military communications had been halted by china after former speaker pelosi's visit to taiwan, which they took huge offense at. after the spy balloon was shot down, communications were not going to get restarted easily. apparently, the joint chiefs chairman spoke with his chinese counterpart today. this is a crucial change given how aggressive they have been in the south china sea and so many close calls that become an accidental conflict. >> indeed. let's give credit here to the biden administration. they pulled this off as a real deliverable from the summit

about a month ago. general brown knows the pacific well. i think he is a steady hand, and he is now in a real conversation with the general, the head of the chinese military. this is good news in reducing tensions strategically, operationally, and tactically. >> admiral, thank you. wishing you a happy holidays. >> same right back. the key to re-election. what top biden advisers are urging president biden to do to win back the support of younger voters and independents. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. this is msnbc. is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to

equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are going backwards. but the aclu can't do this important work without the support of people like you. you can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. so please call the aclu now or go to my aclu.org and join us. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt and much more. to show you're a part of the movement

to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution. we protect everyone's rights, the freedom of religion, the freedom of expression, racial justice, lgbtq rights, the rights of the disabled. we are here for everyone. it is more important than ever to take a stand. so please join us today. because we the people means all the people, including you. so call now or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty. we have breaking news from new york where nbc news has confirmed that rudy giuliani -- we were just speaking about this -- has filed for bankruptcy

just a week after the court ruled he is liable for defaming two former georgia election workers. he has been ordered to pay $146 million. ken dilanian joining us with more. ken, we were just talking about how the judge ordered him to pay up, to start paying this money out within the 30-day normal period to get the money together, because of the concerns, the women's concerns and the judge agreed, that he might start moving his money. now he declared bankruptcy. >> he has. we have the filing. i haven't had a chance to read through it all. he listed a million dollars that he says he owes the irs. another $150 million in other debt, which presumably most of which reflects this judgment. we knew that they were never going to get all of the money. right? what this does is it starts a process where creditors line up

to get what they can. he has an apartment that's up for sale in new york for $6 million. there's maybe money there. >> that's not liquid. >> right. here is what's interesting is that a judgment like this that resulted from willful and malicious conduct is not dischargeable in bankruptcy. it doesn't go away. he still owes the money. whether he can pay it remains to be seen. it will stay with him for the rest of his life. he can still appeal this. the judge made it clear in order to appeal, he has to post a bond equivalent to the amount of the judgment. >> he made it worse by during the trial coming out -- it was on a monday, i think. a week ago monday perhaps coming out and again saying that they had been guilty of election fraud. >> which was defamatory. the judge said as much. that resulted in a separate lawsuit filed by the same women to enjoin him from saying these things again. >> ken dilanian, thank you for the update. we are following breaking

news out of prague where at least 15 people are dead. several dozen others are injured after the mass shooting at charles university in the heart of historic prague. the gunman, who is confirmed dead, was a student at charles university. joining me now is sean henry, chief security officer at crowd strike, former executive assistant director of the fbi. it's horrific. it's unusual. we are still getting information. a mass shooting in prague in central europe, this is something we have been tragically used to in america but not in europe. >> that's right. i think typically in europe, firearms laws are more stringent. i'm not clear or what prague and the czech republic, what that looks like. i think what law enforcement is doing now is really trying to get to the heart of the matter. what's the motive? who is the actor who perpetrated this crime? are there others working along

side this person? they will look at the social media to ensure there's no additional threat to the citizens there in prague at the university, or more broadly throughout the czech republic. it is highly unusual. law enforcement, perhaps not with the type of response mechanism that we have in the u.s., because unfortunately, we have been through so much of this. they will work collaboratively with their partners to find out what happened here. >> let's turn to the 2024 election here back at home. experts are warning state they quickly to combat the threats of artificial intelligence and deep fakes. this is another of your expertise, your areas of expertise, so what impact do you think ai is going to have in the upcoming election, or do voters need to be on the lookout for? what about foreign interference, russia, china? >> i think that's absolutely right. we've seen threat actors that have targeted the election

systems, voter registration databases, they've looked at fund-raising platforms and other different components of the election system. but generative ai is going to change the face of the 2024 election in my opinion, and i think that we've seen russia, china, iran heavily engaged in attempting to influence or subvert elections globally, and that's only going to get worse. with generative ai, the tools that will allow audio, video images to be changed, the ability to very, very quickly and at scale disseminate this false and misleading information is going to have an impact, there is no doubt. i'll add, andrea, the 2024 is a very important year for democracies around the world. there are more than 40 national elections globally. in addition to the u.s., there's elections in mexico, in taiwan, in india, in south africa. this is going to be a test of democracy in 2024, and ai is

only going to make it that much more difficult, andrea. >> shawn henry, by the way, earlier just to finish up here, we talked about those death threats earlier in the program on social media against the colorado supreme court justices. is there any way to monitor or control these threats? what does the justice department, the fbi do when they see these horrific threats within 24 hours against the justices of the supreme court in colorado? >> one of the most challeing issues for law enforcement in these situations is doing attribution, trying to identify who actually launched these threats, and certainly if they were able to be identified, they would be criminally prosecutable offenses. the challenge, though, as you know people are hiding in plain sight. they're using anonymous capabilities. they're using anonymous personas, and it's very, very difficult. they'll work with social media. they'll be able to issue subpoenas, et cetera, but being able to identify the perpetrators is really a

difficult situation, andrea. >> shawn henry, thanks to you. happy holiday. and allies of president biden are starting to get nervous, according to interviews with multiple campaign advisers and voters in key voting blocks done by nbc news. they say that biden has not -- president biden has not laid out a second term agenda yet. and that he needs to. pointing to polls that show cratering support among young voters in particular. one campaign adviser told nbc it is, quote, not enough to tout the achievements of the last two years or trash donald trump. we also have to talk about plans for 2025, '26 and beyond. top aides are also privately worried about the trump dilemma, how to strike the right tone when it comes to talking about president biden's likely challenger without alienating independents. joining us now is white house reporter for "the wall street journal," robert gibbs, former possess secretary to president obama and former florida

republican david jolly. the president was in milwaukee. he talked specifically with black voters whose support has been strong in the past but is now softening. he also touted economic gains. is he doing enough to talk about concrete plans for the future? >> well, andrea, i think him outlining an agenda for the next four years will come. i don't think he needs to have done that by the end of this year. my sense is these plans will accelerate in the first quarter. we're likely to have the colorado case notwithstanding one of, if not the earliest, general election that we've had in our memory, and so i would expect in the first quarter of next year to begin outlining those plans, but also to set out on the president's behalf for the president to give a speech and set out what the narrative is, what is this election about? what are the choices? what's the

frame that he wants people to view this election through, and i think those plans will come as part of that speech and others. >> and sabrina, there's another camp of advisers who say it's too early to panic. clearly that despite the polls, that he has a good story to tell once they start telling it. the problem is donald trump is getting a lot of what you'd think would be negative publicity, but for them, you know, with every court case and every indictment, court setback, he gets stronger. >> it certainly is a challenge for the biden campaign that despite being indicted four times, former president trump has the level of support he has, and you still are looking in some of these polls at a pretty close head to head. in some polls where president trump is ahead of biden. they do say biden campaign advisers that voters are tuning

in to the election, and there's a republican primary that is of course unfolding right now, but when it comes to the general election, there's still almost a year until they have to actually make a decision, and so you've heard president biden kind of touting his accomplishments, laying out the impact of his signature, you know, domestic policies, and starting to tell that story that you mentioned. and also increasingly drawing a contrast with trump, trying to remind voters of what democrats and the president say was a very chaotic four years under trump, threats to democracy that they think are salient today, and later in the campaign, when there is an actual head to head. that's where they say he will be more clear laying out his vision for a second term, and it's very much about timing and that a lot can happen between now and a year from now. so they aren't dismissing the polls outright, but they think there's a lot of time to sell the president's case to voters. >> and david jolly, there's a new poll out today showing big gains for nikki haley in new hampshire.

she jumped to 30% support by likely republican voters, trailing trump by 14 points. and independents can vote in the republican primary, which is another possible strength for her. as her numbers are rising, so do attacks, racial attacks against her, some of them political, some of them very personal. do you expect that race is going to grow ugly her? she is of indian extraction ethnic background. it's remarkable. >> andrea, look, i think race and gender are a fairer currency in republican politics than they are in democratic politics and there's reason to condemn the republicans' often use of that. i think nikki haley has to confront some of these issues. when donald trump suggests immigrants are poisoning the blood, nikki haley, the daughter of first generation immigration. nikki haley remains the only remaining story in the republican primary. does she beat ron desantis in

iowa? we're kind of waiting. when is the next poll going to show that haley might come in second in iowa? if so, that knocks out ron desantis. nikki haley 25, 30 points behind donald trump. if there's any world in which donald trump falters, we haven't seen it yet, nikki haley appears to be the only viable alternative now to the former president. >> and sabrina, let's talk about immigration, which is such a tough issue for president biden now. if republicans clearly feel that they can use immigration to block other priorities of his in foreign policy, and there was no agreement on anything as they left for the break, now you've got 27,000 migrants reportedly being held by customs and border patrol at the border as an historic high. >> you know, the challenge for president biden is coming up with some kind of agreement around border security that is seen as stringent enough for

republicans but not so restrictive that it alienates democrats and progressives. and we know that republicans have said that their support for the aid package that president biden has requested additional military assistance to ukraine as well as aid to israel, taiwan, that that would be tied to these border security measures, and that's what, you know, they're asking for in order to support more aid to ukraine, but you know, you've seen in recent weeks the challenges of negotiating around immigration which for decades has been one of those issues that fundamentally remains divisive here in washington. and will absolutely be, if you think about trump's rhetoric on the campaign trail, a major issue. >> robert gibbs, could this become a sister soldier moment for this president to go center right on immigration and at the risk of alienating part of his base? >> well, look, i think he's got to do -- he's got to find a solution that, quite frankly, does reach independent voters. i don't know whether that's by

dissing some part of his base. swing voters find this an issue, i think that's why he's put money in the appropriations bill to do some progress on it. >> robert gibbs, sabrina is a dickey, happy holidays to all of you, david jolly, thanks very much. thanks for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show on social media @mitchellreports. i'm going to take a bit of a hollywood break, and i hope all of you enjoy the holidays. you can rewatch parts of our show on youtube. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. ♪♪ good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters. rudy giuliani has filed for bapt