and great to be with you on this monday. i'm richard lui. israel's war cabinet meeting tonight to discuss the urgent need to free hostages hours after families of those kidnapped by hamas heckled prime minister netanyahu when he said more time needed to ensure their

release. in the gallows holding up signs chanting, "now, now, now!" >> the prime minister also promised to ramp up attacks on the gaza strip after 17 idf soldiers were killed this weekend. the hamas-run health ministry says israeli strikes killed at least 70 at a refugee camp christmas eve. the images may be difficult to watch here. videos showing people rushed to the hospital, past rows of body bags lined up on the street. families in the area telling the a.p. they fled from the north to seek refuge. one man sobbing over the body of a relative saying, i swear, he was a man, he was better than all of hamas. palestinian health ministry saying 250 people have been killed by the idf strikes in the last 24 hours. joining us now nbc's jay gray.

what's the latest? >> reporter: yeah. and, richard, the attacks intensified to the south. you talk about what's happened on the ground, and issue at that rer ji camp. what idf is calling it an issue they are investigating though not admitting a strike landed there although the health ministry is saying about that strike. strikes in the air and on the ground and troops working around the clock basically in the south trying to uncover command and control centers as well as working to expose some of the underground tunnels. the idf saying today during one of the airstrikes in the south they did kill one senior member of hamas leadership. though they haven't said who that person is. we know that they are going to meet with the war council this evening. in fact, meeting and going to double down on that saying they need to continue this aggression. that that's the way that the

hostages are going to be released, but as you just saw from the families of those hostages, friends of those hostages gathered at the kissset and from global pressure growing, there is a real demand coming to release those hostages, and get that done now, right now counted 129 hostages still being held in gaza. >> jay, there's also reporting over the weekend from the "new york times" and others about large 2000-pound bombs used. the united states shipping over about 5,000 in the idf. what do we hear about that? >> reporter: well, a lot of frustration globally. thinking that that's not the type of fire power needed by the israeli forces as they continue their attacks in gaza, and a lot of people wondering now very publicly why they are using such

intense fire power. the israeli army has said they are going to do whatever is necessary to eliminate hamas and that this is part of what they are using in their arsenal to do that. they say that these are the types of weapons they need to make sure they never face what they faced october 7th in the attacks. >> nbc's jay gray. thank you for catching us us to speed with that. joining us now former israel council general in new york, ambassador pincus and former arab israeli negotiator at the state department aaron david miller, also senior fellow at carnegie endowment for international peace. ambassador, starting with you. you can see israeli citizens, those family members of the 129 hostages chanting "now, now, now" in the knesset. what is the level of intensity that benjamin netanyahu and the war cabinet is facing right now

relative to what we saw earlier in this conflict? >> richard good to be with you. the level of intensity is gradually increasing. right now it's mostly the families and a few thousand of supporters that come out and demonstrate, but i think, and i would guesstimate that in the next few weeks this will mushroom into big demonstrations. now, the intensity is particularly high, richard, because they feel collectively, though i haven't spoken to any one of them individually, they feel benjamin netanyahu gave up on the hostages. relegated and reduced to a third or fourth priority. that he's not serious in trying to engage hamas via qatar, via egist, via the u.s., via whomever, because that would require a cease-fire, which at

this point before the wasn't tirely changes its course and now dynamics, he is unready to entertain. >> he summed up it so well there, aaron, potentially one of the scenarios. if they were to negotiate release of hostages a cease-fire, cessation of hostilities a truce would need negotiated and potentially idf as well as benjamin netanyahu does not want that. what do you think of that scenario? >> you know, i think it may be the prime minister's reading the tea leaves. could to be with you, richard, and with everyone. reading the tea leaves. there's a hope, i would go beyond a hope, expectation, that by january the character of the israeli ground campaign, comprehensive strikes with artillery and air are going to change to a much more targeted intelligence operation. maybe the calculation is, yeah, if you do hostages now it's going to end up with a two-week delay.

at least, minimal two weeks. which is what the egyptians are proposing for an exchange of 40 hostages, which hamas, i mighthood, rejected. maybe the calculation is that the israeli don't want a cessation for several more weeks, but, again, the moments of truth in the u.s.-israeli relationship but i think one is coming if in fact the character of the ground campaign isn't significantly changed by middle or end of january. >> ambassador what do you make of egypt's reporting that they have a potential idea to end this conflict, and are they still front and center as well as with qatar and the united states? but that's the news over the weekend, that egypt is saying we might have a solution to end this conflict? >> well, they have a solution. qataris have a solution.

more than one official american articulated more than once. both secretary of state blinken and vice president kamala harris. i refer you and viewers to aaron's, aaron miller's great article in foreign affairing together with dan kurtzer about the aftermath, post-war, and there are ideas in israel. but here's the thing -- there is one client, one protagonist who's not interested in all that and his name is benjamin netanyahu. he wants this war to be prolonged. he has evaded any serious talk about the day after. he published today a lengthy article in the "wall street journal" explaining what his terms for peace are, which are unacceptable to everyone and anyone, even though academically they make sense, but practically they do not. so, you know in respect to the egyptian plan, i think israel would be wise to contemplate it

and at least engage the egyptians on this. but the likelihood of that happening, richard, is almost zero. >> aaron, reflect on that piece you did write. consistent also with general mccaffrey saying need to know where we're going to understand what we need to do today. >> yeah. that's the illusive question i think nobody can answer. i'm really concerned, though, that given the uncertainties, the reality that the israelis will be operating in gaza at some level. certainly not at this level, but at some level in the months ahead. given weakness of the palestinian authority. even that authority's view that they're going to need hamas' support in some fashion, or a successor to hamas, islamists, to govern gaza. the arab states seem to be unwilling to send their own forces, and the international force seems to be magical thinking at this stage that we

may well into 2024 see not this level of suffering. because i think international aid organizations, once the intensity of the ground campaign stops, may well be able to deal with humanitarian assistance, but i'm very concerned that fixing gaza, dressing gaza, let alone addressing as is well known roots of the israeli/palestinian conflict. we're in to a second term, should the president be fortunate enough to receive them. >> we take a step back -- >> may i jump in? >> please, go ahead, ambassador. >> aaron -- aaron as well as myself and many others keep on talking about the changes of modalities and changing of dynamics and a shift from what secretary of defense lloyd austin called high-intensity conflict into lower-intensity conflict, aaron described

precisely, targeted operations, incursions, intelligence-driven rather than a broadscale campaign, but here's a key question that everyone including myself sometimes forget to address. does israel do that from within gaza or without gaza? because if israel maintain as military presence in northern gaza in a swath of land to the west, bordering the mediterranean sea than in southwest gaza, then this is a, this is a non-starter in terms of all peace plans, the word "peace "it's presumptuous, all the settlement plans, the day-after plans that america, that the u.s. has or for that matter each region. >> when we look at this based on high and low intensity, aaron, could you on this. we were discussing this with jay gray. usage of 2,000-pound bombs. some of largest you can find in the world. it says we're in a

high-intensity phase, not even close to moving to low intensity? >> i mean, i can't explain that, frankly, because from the beginning the administration sent a three star in the first several weeks, before the ground campaign and influenced thinking on dealing with after rather than damage. that can be achieved with lower-level ordnance, and good intelligence. but it seems to me, a pattern is developing here, and i think in many respects may be understandable in light of the hamas savage and brutal terror drive of october 7th, but the reality is with 1,000, 2,000-pound bombs year dealing with damage, frankly. not with accuracy. that accounts, i think to a large extent for the exponential rise in palestinian deaths even before the ground campaign began. >> ambassador, finally, as we look at the united nations, the

united states as well as russia abstaining from the vote end of the week. does this tell us, though, that potentially the united states is beginning to use up all its political capital may or may not have had in the region base and the little bit of a change, little bit of movement by the united states on that vote? >> foreign policy is you and aaron definitely know, you both know foreign policy cannot be turned on a dime. it takes time. it's gradual. sometimes it's incremental. sometimes annoyingly, or agonizingly incremental, but i think within the last two, three weeks there has been a realization in the biden administration that the international isolation as opposed to ukraine, america is here isolated and essentially the only protector or defender and ally that israel has. the political pressure is going

to goin accumulate within the democratic electors, you know, it's -- i'm not a political strategist here and we're 11 months ahead of the election, but if this goes on the cumulative affect will be adverse for mr. biden on top of which mr. netanyahu is behaving like an ingrate. that he is taking advantage of president biden and his unwavering support and using it for his own political calculus, and, you know, take those three together. take abstention at the u.n., the visit of secretary of defense lloyd austin and just three days before national security advisor jake sullivan, and you see that there is a course correction in the process. >> ambassador, thank you so much. aaron david miller former

negotiator at the state department, thank you both. coming up, a new caravan of migrants is heading to the united states, but congress left washington with unfinished business. what is the status of immigration negotiations, and can they pick up where they left off? plus, no one had a better year than -- her. taylor swift. what her impact has been in 2023. we look back at year of swift. first, former president trump is back in court this time with a request of his own. what it could mean for trump's legal risks. we're back in 60 minutes with that. it makes my running shoe look like new. it's amazing! wow, it makes it look like... i don't have kids at all. it's so good, it makes it look like i have magical powers! with 80% less scrubbing, mr. clean magic eraser makes cleaning easy. also available in sheets! ♪ students...

students of any age, from anywhere. students in a new kind of classroom. ♪ using our technology to power different ways of learning. ♪ harnessing ai to plant new beginnings. ♪ so when minds grow, opportunities follow. former president trump's attorneys calling on the d.c. appeals court to toss the 2020 election interference in a broad case for immunity. it's about protecting leaders from false accusations from political enemies. joining us now, former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst

barbara mcquade. great to see you. so much happening over the weekend. what would you make of the trump attorneys response that happened on saturday evening? >> yeah. you know, they're argues in a way trying to reframe the question. talking about the idea that a president in exercising the scope of his duties could somehow be charged way crime. that's not what's going on here. this is about activity that exceeds boundaries of a president's duties. a president does not have any role whatsoever in the administration of elections. that is reserved for the states. so when he said he was simply taking care the lays are faithfully executed that is a misdirection move. i think ultimately we will see the court of appeals decide the same way the trial court did. which is to say this conduct is outside that scope of immunity. >> now, the judge in this case has given jack smith's team until saturday to respond. what do you expect him to say in

this? >> i think he will come back with just a more pointed version of his argument, which is the same thing. that what donald trump has said in his brief is not an accurate statement of the law. of course, it's a little bit of untried ground here, because we haven't seen these kinds of criminal charges against a former president, but in the civil context there has been an opportunity to explore it and, in fact, in the paula jillens case the supreme court held bill clinton did not have immunity fri a civil lawsuit and certainly you would not expect more protection in a criminal case. i imagine coming back with that argument. good about this is that the court of appeals is moving quickly. requiring quick briefs, setting the case for oral argument january 9th and i imagine a quick decision will come shortly thereafter. >> how does the march date that's been put out there in terms when the trial actually starts look as of this day, december 25th? >> it looks like it's on shaky

ground, richard. i don't know it means pushed back until after the election, but it seems we've already lot a little bit of time and will lose a little bit more. that's because as long as this appeal is pending, the trial court has suspended everything going on in the trial court. so ordinarily as we lead up to the march 4th trial date a lot of activity would be occurring in the trial court. resolution of motions, the exchange of discovery material. and the preparation for a jury. jury questionnaires sent out soon to try to get going on that jury selection process. until we get a decision from either the court of appeals or, quite possibly, know appeal up to the supreme court all is suspended. i think it's likely we see a 60 or 90-day delay from the march date. still puts us as trial starting early summer. >> all right. there's another iron in the fire to talk about. that's colorado. what may look at the disqualification of the president and probability and what we're hearing that trump's

lawyers will be challenging the supreme court there in colorado. what will happen next as it leads to the supreme court of the united states, and for that matter, with all the other states that have similar cases? what that means? >> yes. i think if donald trump appeals this to the supreme court, the court will take it, just because there is at this moment a lack of clarity about how to read this provision of the 14th amendment. whether engaging in insurrection is what donald trump did and that should keep him from the ballot. however, one thought maybe he doesn't appeal it at all, because colorado is likely one that's going to be in the loss column for him anyway. it's a blue state these days. maybe doesn't. the question then doesn't come up unless it comes up from another state. i think if he seeks review in the supreme court the supreme court will have to take this question up. just because it's something that is not, has not been resolved since the reconstruction period

after the civil war and of great national importance to decide how this should be read and whether someone should be removed from the ballot for this purpose. my guess is even if he does not appeal colorado some other state will reach the same resolution, and a state he needs in his column. think ultimately the question is headed for the supreme court. >> barbara, thank you. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade. coming up, less than three weeks before the iowa caucus. what some gop hopefuls are doing to prepare. first, congress has a long to-do list for 2024. what should we expect from them next year?

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welcome back. thousands of migrants set off on foot in another caravan from southern mexico in an effort to reach the united states border. this as congress is at an impasse over ar border deal after record-breaking encounters at the border just last week. joining us, msnbc correspondent julie tsirkin. working on this fits and starts and then at the end right before the holiday began, they were unable to come up with anything. what's the latest? >> reporter: yeah nep did make progress, richard. merry christmas. it's good to be with you. they're taking this holiday as a quick break before returning to virtual meetings i'm told starting wednesday again. refer to viewers a group of three senators, republican, democrat and independent, trying to work together to solve a problem that congress has not been able to address for nearly

decades making it more complicated the fact it's tied to foreign funding to ukraine an ally of ours democrats, the white house and many republicans especially in the senate see it a priority of importance to continue to help but it makes this time crunch that much more tricky for lawmakers to figure out pt closer on sticking points including issues of parole, limited or restricting the administration's official to allow people into the country for humanitarian reasons. the clock is ticking. of course. negotiators want a framework before congress gets back in january, because they're going to have to take this up in a very swift matter in order to unlock that foreign aid as well. of course, address the problem at the border. >> julie, also we're watching congress, an attrition. half way through this congress. what are we looking at? >> reporter: a lot in 2024 and, of course, a lot of drama.

this congress has been one of the most unproductive in recent memory. only able to pass about 22 bills that actually made it into law. that's in part due to the republican dysfunction we saw. remained without a speaker several week. kicked out one of their own, kevin mccarthy since announced he is resigning and retiring from congress altogether. so certainly this is a major problem, a political problem, in terms who controls the house. republicans with slim majority hope to hold on to it, but it makes everything they have to do including funding the government and this national security package that much more complicated. the second the clock strikes midnight new year's when an election year, 2024, a major one at that, it's going to get a lot more political even more if you can believe it than we've seen this past year and certainly in addition to funding the government, national security proposal as well. they have to pass another faa flight authorization past the deadline. also they have to, again, blow

past those two funding deadlines and critical work when it comes to our national security priorities in fisa as well. a lot to get done and a lot of politics on the table. >> thank you. iowa caucuses are just weeks away, nikki haley and allies choosing not to target independent or democratic voters in the state. bypassing getting them to change their caulk us. and matthew dowd msnbc contributor and starting with you, both states you've been in the last few days with nikki haley? >> reporter: richard, yeah. merry christmas to you, and let's talk about her strategy. start with iowa. so as my colleagues vaughn hillyard and jillian frankel reported, there is no active effort by haley or her campaign

to reach democrats or independent voters. there's no historical precedent to do that in the state of iowa, even though on caucus day the republican state party in iowa allows voters to change their registration in order to participate in the caucus. but in new hampshire that is a totally different story, because 40% of the electorate here in new hampshire what are they call undeclared voters. they are voters who get to choose on primary day whether to vote in the republican primary or in the democratic primary. so there's a superpac backing nikki haley spending $1 million over the course of the next month until january 23rd to try and directly contact 200,000 of those undeclared voters, because they say if 15,000 to 30,000 of those voters show up on primary day it could make a difference, and we saw in the polling recently from cbs that nikki haley is about 15 points behind

trump. they really believe if they get this independent bloc it could make a little bit of difference. richard? >> nbc's emma barnett, thank you. math through, reflecting on her reporting, one takeaway certainly that nikki haley is in those mid-30s, in the high 20s at the moment. desantis is a third in one of the polls most recently. is this news about nikki haley, really, more about desantis? >> well, i think fundamentally the race has become much more an nikki haley than desantis, but the elephant in the room is donald trump still has dramatically huge leads. talk about iowa. donald trump right now is 30 points ahead in iowa. iowa is actually not only important because you win it as a caucus, seems to me at this point in time ron desantis and nikki haley aren't fundamentally really competing there. i think it's the last stand for ron desantis. if he gets beat by donald trump by 20 or 25 points it's very hard for him to continue.

but the other benefit of iowa is that it's the last state before new hampshire. eight days later is new hampshire. a candidate beat bike that much, momentum is difficult to build going into new hampshire. it's still donald trump's race to lose, but looks like right now this fight between nikki haley and ron desantis is for second place. >> are we seeing january 15th or january 23rd? talking about new hampshire and iowa. iowa caucuses just mentioning. that timing? where we're to see one or two of the current candidates on the republican side drop out here? >> yeah. i had thought, would have thought, a consideration now before christmas that one of the ones might have dropped out if they saw writing on the wall, but i guess have enough money and capacity. normally whathappens, richard, you see somebody wounded. basically they're done after iowa, but stick in new hampshire, because they can get air time and i think there's going to be an unsponsored rnc

debate between iowa and new hampshire they may want to stay in, but what you're likely to see is one or two candidates drop out after new hampshire and the race depending on what happens with donald trump, the race may be over before it gets to south carolina. if donald trump wins iowa big and then wins new hampshire, the race ask pretty much over. >> you saw that latest poll we just put up. why is nikki haley sticking right now, and already peaked out? this is a difference of 14 percentage points. of course, m.o.e. plus or minus 3% on it. 13 percentage points. is that within striking distance? >> problem for nikki haley, donald trump's number since start of year in new hampshire stayed at 43 or 44%. he hasn't diminished at all. the only thing happened second, third and fourth play reshuffled. ron desantis was at 30% eight months ago in new hampshire.

he's fallen off. nikki haley's risen in this poll. right now a serious question whether or not there is a lid on the non-trump vote, if multiple candidates are in the field here. donald trump hasn't dropped one percentage point in new hampshire since this race has started even though there's been a fight among the also-rans so far. we'll see. base of support in new hampshire is pretty solid. >> all right. matthew doud, thank you so much. have a great holiday. >> my pressure. coming up next, the year of taylor swift. what was her impact on all things from pop culture to local economies and everything else-dirkse next. ng else-dirkse next.

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welcome back. at all the stars of 2023, there certainly was one who owned the year. she was born in 1989. you know her all too well. nbc's savannah sellars reports on the era of taylor swift, 2023. ♪ >> reporter: the results are in. seemingly everybody agrees. ♪ everybody agrees ♪ this was taylor's year. seize "times" person of 2023. "people's" most intriguing and in the top five of forbes most powerful women. ♪ this night ♪ >> reporter:ed word was enchanted to meet her but

taylor's nothing new. in fact, nearly a decade ago barbara walters said these famous words -- >> taylor swift is the music industry. >> reporter: the year of taylor swift has been a long time coming. >> welcome to the "eras tour"! [ cheers and applause ] >> reporter: and it might have had something to do how she made us all feel. >> we love you taylor! >> reporter: start wit highest-grossing tour in histories spanning generations of taylor's music and fans. mothers, daughters, millennials, gen z, swatching bracelets and singing in the middle of parking lots, a three and a half hour odyssey. so big her foons boosted local kmis causing seismic activity in seattle. ♪ ooh, ooh ♪ >> reporter: and we got to live it all over again in the film version of the show. >> i'm going to this movie at least 13 times. >> reporter: turning movie screenings into dance parties and sing-alongs. 2023 saw release of two of her

re-recorded albums. >> this album's incredible. >> reporter: part of her quest to own all her musically ma tick cously re-creating her music bricking back all the feels and all ready for. taylor albums chart add second time. 1989 taylor's version becoming her most successful release ever. one newspaper chain decided they need add recorder focused sole on on taylor. >> first time ever a dedicated reporter to cover beat of an entertainment celebrity. >> do you think the hype around the tour, the movie, the rerecords, the relationship, has meant that taylor swift has found even more new fans this year? >> even with the nfl we have seen new relationship pulling in those fans. bringing in audience members from all over. >> reporter: her new relationship brought a new region of fans to the nfl with swifties hoping to watch the

love story play out live -- she skyrocketed. we will remember this moment of total taylor dominance, you best believe she still has plenty up her bejeweled sleeve with the "eras tour" heading to asia and europe and fans waiting 0 on two more prerecorded albums. the mastermind, the man, the era we didn't know we needed. thank you, taylor for helping us all dance. >> thank you for that. coming up can our people of the year. folks who matter just as much if not more to the msnbc family. first, a family in florida who's made an annual tradition helping others. what they are doing to bring joy to those around them, next. to ♪ using our technology to power different ways of learning. ♪

harnessing ai to plant new beginnings. ♪ so when minds grow, opportunities follow. michael strahan: discoveries at st. jude have helped increase the overall childhood cancer survival rate from 20% to 80%. so when you support st. jude, you're helping more kids grow up to be whatever they want to be. like this kid, who's a high school track star. and this kid, who was elected to state office. and this kid, who has three kids. marlo thomas: give thanks for the healthy kids in your life, and give a gift that could last a lifetime. a force to be reckon with. no, not you saquon. hm? you! your business bank account with quickbooks money, now earns 5% apy. 5% apy? that's new! yup, that's how you business differently. ♪ i'm gonna hold you forever... ♪

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it is the season of giving. for 12 years a florida family made it their christmas in addition to give back to their community. joining us from west palm beach, florida, msnbc reporter. marissa what is this is family, who are they and what are they doing to give back? >> reporter: this is about as grass roots as it gets, richard. this is a brother and a sister. we're not outside of a food bank or food pantry. it's literally the front yard of this family. what they've been doing, prepping for this not just today, not just 3:00 in the morning when they started cooking with their family. something they've actually worked on for weeks.

their 12th year doing this, though. and that really starts with putting out flyers in the community and in lowish-ing in families those without access to food or have food security and may not have homes and getting the word out, because of the sheer joy of this. i asked them what is it that year after year keeps you wanting to put this on? this is a time intensive thing and also costs money. this is not just donation-based. they also take money out of their own pocket to put forward into this. this was their answer when i asked them what keeps them doing this year after year. >> i would say this is important to me. it gives me joy. and happiness when i'm able to see happiness amongst others. >> i really believe it's important for the community to observe biblical principles played out in realtime.

doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. >> reporter: so i had a chance to talk to people who were in line. we've seen people trickling in. we've seen lines that extended about a block down over the last few hours and what i noticed,in some who didn't have a home and those that did but just didn't want to be alone. wanted that warmth. that speaks to what their providing here. which is not just a nice, warm, cooked meal. a hole-cooked meal made with love. even just being around other people. having that community. this is a really hard time to be alone, and, richard, i want to end with this one thing. people ask what inspired this to begin with? i mentioned a it's brother/sister duo. the sister had daughters, children, wanted to teach them the spirit of giving. that was 12 years ago. now her daughtering are grown and they participate in this. it really is a family affair, and something for all of us to

learn from, and to look forward to when it comes to this season of giving. >> and saw a smile when her brother was talking earlier. i read they started buy 19 meals, given away 12 years. a sense how many this year? >> reporter: yes. glad you mentioned that. 250 last year. did your research. they anticipated anywhere between 300 and 400. waiting on the final tally once date is over but i know they had 600 plates just in case, because we know600 plates just in case because we know word got out and traveled fast and far. so i'll have an update for you on the final tally here. but they were prepared for 600, which is just amazing. >> that is great. the numbers actually measure the size of their heart, i'd say. marissa, thank you so much for that story. >> reporter: yes. >> really appreciate it. coming up, a special thanks to the team that gets us on air each and every single day when we come back. en we come back (mom) a better plan to save is verizon! (vo) that's right! plans start at $25 per line guaranteed for 3 years.

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i'm a little anxious, i'm a little excited. thei'm gonna be emotional,ded she's gonna be emotional, but it's gonna be so worth it. i love that i can give back to one of our customers. i hope you enjoy these amazing gifts. oh my goodness. oh, you guys. i know you like wrestling, so we got you some vip tickets. you have made an impact. so have you. for you guys to be out here doing something like this, it restores a lot of faith in humanity.

and before we go, our people of the year. we want to thank the technical team who work here at msnbc behind the scenes each and every day. and without them, as you know, we could not bring you the news here every day. and to those who celebrate, a very merry christmas as well. i'm richard lui from new york city. have a good one. ♪♪ ♪♪

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