hello, i'm craig melvin, and this is "dateline." feel that so many people hello, i'm craig melvin, and this is "dateline."ou think steven avery is innocent? it's emotional. tom fassbender: they made him look like he was just a nice person. what's happening is wrong. the evidence is beyond overwhelming. steven avery is guilty. i'm innocent.

craig melvin: the story gripped the nation in the series "making a murderer." so many americans have learned about it. laura nirider: it's being heard by people around the world. craig melvin: steven avery and his nephew, convicted of murder and the haunting killing of a young photographer. but were they really innocent? andrea canning: did you have any kind of vendetta against steven avery? absolutely not. craig melvin: for the first time on television, a lead investigator defends his interrogation which led to a conviction overturned. andrea canning: this was seen by many as a false confession. i feel it was a real confession. he knew right from wrong. laura nirider: those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. craig melvin: the prosecutor fights back with an explosive book. people are going to hear the other side of the story. craig melvin: and a promise from steven avery's high-powered, new attorney. andrea canning: do you think you have new evidence that could free steven avery? we do. [theme music]

welcome to "dateline." it's an extraordinary case that defies easy answers. at the center of it all? steven avery. he and his teenage nephew were convicted in the brutal murder of wisconsin photographer teresa halbach. then came a documentary series exploring allegations of police corruption so explosive investigators have been forced to fight back. two sides. one truth. who will you believe? andrea canning (voiceover): the mystery of what happened here in the sprawling fields of rural wisconsin has captivated the country. we the jury find the defendant, steven a. avery, guilty. andrea canning (voiceover): in 2015, the netflix series "making a murderer" convinced many viewers that steven avery and brendan dassey, both convicted of murder, had been railroaded by law enforcement.

crowd (chanting): free steven avery. andrea canning (voiceover): it's a case "dateline" has been following for more than a decade. as their lawyers work tirelessly to free them from prison, we pose the questions everyone's been asking to two men who helped put avery and dassey behind bars. why would steven avery do this? that's a great question. andrea canning (voiceover): we speak with former prosecutor ken kratz, who has written a book which reveals his provocative theory that steven avery made himself a murderer. ken kratz: steven avery started planning this event from the very first day he went to prison. andrea canning (voiceover): and we talk with tom fassbender, a lead investigator in the case, who has come under fire for this controversial interrogation. andrea canning: you've really stayed silent through this firestorm. why are you sitting here today? i finally realized that someone needed to speak out to bring forward the truth of what happened. andrea canning (voiceover): so what did happen here? our story begins with the woman at the heart of this case,

a 25-year-old photographer from kaukauna, wisconsin named teresa halbach. she just loved being behind the camera. andrea canning (voiceover): kim petersen and teresa became fast friends in college. both were photographers working at the same studio in green bay. kim says teresa had a special way with her subjects. kim peterson: she would get the smile. that was one thing i think that she really loved to do was just make other people smile. andrea canning (voiceover): the two stayed in touch after graduation as they launched their careers. but that would all change suddenly on october 31, 2005. kim caught a story on the local news. teresa was missing. reporter: investigators say the 25-year-old photographer was on assignment for "auto trader" magazine when she disappeared. and my heart just kind of dropped knowing that it was somebody i knew. what do you do at that moment? i felt helpless because you want to just deny it. you want to try to get in touch with her. did you try to call her? i did try to text her, but--

andrea canning: no response? no response. andrea canning (voiceover): wisconsin police quickly launched a massive search, bolstered by a team of volunteers. after two days, a big break. they had found teresa's vehicle on the avery salvage yard. andrea canning (voiceover): tom fassbender, then a special agent with the wisconsin department of criminal investigation, hustled over to this 40-acre stretch of land in manitowoc county, home to the salvage yard and auto mechanic steven avery. had you heard his name before? only through the media. andrea canning (voiceover): steven avery was a big story. he'd been convicted of rape in 1985. but 18 years later, dna evidence exonerated him, and he was freed, a wrongfully convicted man welcome back to society with open arms and looking for justice of his own. oh god! oh, steve! andrea canning: were you aware that he had filed a lawsuit against the local sheriff's department? yes. yes, i had heard that. andrea canning (voiceover): avery hoped winning the $36 million lawsuit could

help him get back on his feet. tom fassbender: he had an opportunity to make something of his life, and it appeared that he was headed toward in that direction. andrea canning (voiceover): now, two years after his release from prison, this poster boy for wrongful convictions was back in the news, and not in a good way. i hope she comes back so she can go back to her family. andrea canning (voiceover): when fassbender arrived on site, he learned teresa halbach had an appointment at the salvage yard on october 31st to take photos of this van avery's sister was selling. teresa had left a message that morning. andrea canning (voiceover): steven avery confirmed to investigators that teresa had been on the property that day and left around 2:30 pm. avery didn't tell them much more. but for investigators, a dark tale started emerging from the physical evidence, especially

when they made a gruesome discovery in the back of teresa's suv. tom fassbender: we find teresa's blood in the vehicle, primarily in the cargo area of the rav4. andrea canning (voiceover): and in the front? more blood. tom fassbender: there was blood on some of the upholstery and a very telling swipe of blood near the ignition switch of the vehicle. andrea canning (voiceover): tests showed that blood was steven avery's, taking him from person of interest to prime suspect. andrea canning: you believe you can explain the blood from steven avery. well, yes, absolutely. steven avery had a cut on his right hand middle finger that was freshly scabbed over. and if you took that key, and you put it in that ignition switch, it just lined up perfectly with a contact pattern swipe. how did he explain that cut? i'm not sure if i remember that. i think he claimed that he had cut it in the junkyard doing work on vehicles. andrea canning (voiceover): fassbender feared the worst. and after four days of searching,

his team found something disturbing in a fire pit near avery's trailer. what appeared to be bone fragments. andrea canning (voiceover): human bones. most interesting because family members told investigators that steven avery had built a bonfire hours after teresa had been at the yard that day. tom fassbender: it was a huge bonfire, flames going as high as the edge of the roof on the garage. was it all making sense to you? bone fragments-- - looking at the whole picture? absolutely. andrea canning (voiceover): and that picture came into sharper focus when fassbender's team found another clue, teresa's key inside avery's bedroom. tom fassbender: the toyota key with a little fob connector to it. this is huge. yes, it's huge. andrea canning (voiceover): especially when the crime lab later found avery's dna on it. it would become a highly controversial clue in this case. the evidence was stacking up against steven avery, and fassbender says that rav4 would later tell investigators one last thing. tom fassbender: we had tested the hood latch and found dna matching steven on the hood latch.

andrea canning (voiceover): fassbender believed avery had some explaining to do. so nine days after teresa's disappearance, he and his partner, mark wiegert, brought avery in for an interview. "dateline" filed a freedom of information request to obtain the video. andrea canning (voiceover): avery was defiant and even claimed cops were framing him, planting evidence. andrea canning (voiceover): fassbender and wiegert weren't buying it and placed steven avery under arrest. andrea canning (voiceover): investigators were convinced they had their man. still, they didn't know how or why teresa had been killed. craig melvin: coming up-- shackles, handcuffs, strange behavior. ken kratz: teresa's creeped out.

craig melvin: could something in his past have led him to murder? when "dateline" continues. the all-in-one and done symptom relief of mucinex is delivered fast with doordash to the comfort of your couch. slow down!... i mean (coughs) slow down! ahh! watch it! ♪♪ come on! a hero will answer the call... (laughs) you just have to answer the door. oof! that was fast. ♪♪ mucinex available on doordash. ahh! it's comeback season. [music playing] subject 1: cancer is a long journey.

it's overwhelming, but you just have to put your mind to it and fight. subject 2: it doesn't feel good because you can't play outside with other children. subject 3: as a parent, it is your job to protect your family. but here is something that i cannot do. i cannot fix this. i don't know if my daughter is going to be able to walk. i don't know if she's going to make it till tomorrow. [music playing] interviewer: you can join the battle to save lives by supporting st. jude children's research hospital. families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food so they can focus on helping their child live. subject 4: childhood cancer, there's no escaping it. but st. jude is doing the work, continually researching towards cures, giving more than just my child a chance at life. interviewer: please, call or go online right now

and become a st. jude partner in hope for only $19 a month. subject 5: those donations really matter because we're not going to give up. and when you see other people not giving up on your child, it makes all the difference in the world. interviewer: when you call or go online with your credit or debit card right now, we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt. you can wear to show your support to help st. jude save the lives of these children. subject 6: st. jude is hope. even today after losing a child, it's still about the hope of tomorrow, because. childhood cancer has to end. interviewer: please, call or go online right now. [music playing]

andrea canning (voiceover): in january 2006, steven avery pleaded not guilty to the murder of teresa halbach, and special prosecutor ken kratz began building his case. he chronicles it all in his book "avery." andrea canning: what do you feel people know

the least about in this case? the book is about the case against steven avery that is setting forth a better representation of what the real evidence was. andrea canning (voiceover): better, he said, than the way the evidence was presented in "making a murderer." in his book, kratz laid out his complete theory of the case with new details he'd never shared before. for one thing, kratz told "dateline" he believes steven avery had set his sights on teresa halbach in the weeks leading up to her murder. ken kratz: as we move closer towards october 31st, we see steven's behavior changing. andrea canning (voiceover): as kratz got "auto traders" records, he learned teresa had actually made five earlier visits to the avery salvage yard to take photos, some at steven avery's request. he starts making calls directly to teresa halbach rather than going through "auto trader." andrea canning (voiceover): and kratz determined that on the day before one of those visits avery purchased these shackles and handcuffs.

and when teresa arrived? ken kratz: he answers the door that day wearing a small white towel, and teresa we know is creeped out by that behavior. she tells friends and co-workers about that. andrea canning (voiceover): kratz believes avery's behavior shows signs of a sexual obsession with teresa that led to murder. andrea canning: why would steven avery do this when he was on the verge of getting this big windfall? potentially millions of dollars. that's a great question. i don't know. we know that he's a psychopath. we know that he has-- do we know that? well, i-- let's say i alleged that, ok? i believe that deep down. andrea canning (voiceover): kratz discovered more in avery's past. 18 years before teresa's murder, avery wrote this letter to his estranged wife from prison saying, "i will kill you." and a former fiancee told police he had physically abused her. and kratz says he learned something even more disturbing.

this 2006 police report shows a teenage girl accused avery of raping her a year after his release from prison. it all came together for kratz. he believes avery had developed a deep resentment of women, which had started with his wrongful conviction and had only grown over the years. he has no remorse for his behavior, feels incredibly entitled. andrea canning (voiceover): but as he continued to investigate the case, kratz had a problem. andrea canning: you still didn't know how she was killed, exactly where she was killed. was that bothering you? yes. but sometimes, you know, you have what you have. it was all coming together in bits and pieces. andrea canning (voiceover): he and his team kept digging until they got a big lead. man: why don't you just have a seat, brendan. andrea canning (voiceover): in march 2006, four months after teresa's murder, tom fassbender and his partner, mark wiegert, spoke with avery's 16-year-old nephew, brendan dassey, in a series of now highly-scrutinized interviews.

what was your first impression of brendan dassey? a shy kid, somewhat introverted. andrea canning (voiceover): but once he opened up, the details he revealed would stun investigators. andrea canning (voiceover): fassbender says dassey described a brutal scene. on that halloween afternoon, his uncle asked him to come over to his trailer. dassey said they each sexually assaulted teresa in avery's bedroom and avery later shot her in his garage, burning her body in the bonfire. tom fassbender: it's a game changer. he told us stuff that we weren't really aware of, like teresa was shot in the garage and had died there. andrea canning (voiceover): and after speaking with dassey, fassbender had his team return to the avery property once more, and they found this in his garage-- a bullet fragment. andrea canning: and that was missed the first time around? well, i guess they could say it was missed. but you're talking about a bullet fragment, a 22 bullet fragment.

it looks like a piece of dirt possibly. it was tested? it was tested, yes. teresa's dna was on that bullet, and the bullet was shot from steven's rifle, or the one above his bed. andrea canning: do you now believe that teresa was shot in that garage? yes. andrea canning (voiceover): one strange thing, though-- when they searched the garage for blood, they never found a drop. how could you clean up all that blood? well, he did it to the best of his ability, i guess. bleach, paint thinner, that cleans up blood. andrea canning (voiceover): teresa's friend, kim, says when she heard the details about teresa's final moments, she was heartbroken. kim peterson: i remember crying and just hoping she was who she was and fought because she was a very strong person. andrea canning (voiceover): ken kratz charged brendan dassey as a conspirator in her murder. i intend to hold each of these defendants accountable for the rape, the torture, and the murder of teresa halbach. andrea canning (voiceover): but not so fast, dassey recanted his statements.

just before avery's trial, the judge dismissed the rape charge against him and didn't allow any of those allegations about avery's treatment of women, saying they didn't prove anything about teresa's murder. and avery was never charged with assaulting his ex fiancee or with raping the teen. to this day, he denies all the allegations. and those handcuffs and shackles? no evidence ever linked them to teresa. still, in the spring of 2007, juries, in separate trials, convicted both dassey and avery of murdering teresa. they were each sentenced to life in prison. you are probably the most dangerous individual ever to set foot in this courtroom. andrea canning (voiceover): it seemed like the avery saga had ended. but eight years later, "making a murderer" would put fassbender, kratz, and their entire team in the hot seat. craig melvin: coming up. did they plant evidence? sure they did. craig melvin: was steven avery framed?

andrea canning: is it possible that that blood could have been planted? craig melvin: when "dateline" continues. ♪ if there's pain when you try to poo ♪ ♪ and going sometimes feels like you ♪ ♪ pushed through a pineapple or two ♪ ♪ colace is the brand you need ♪ ♪ to soften stools, we're all agreed ♪ ♪ #2 should be easy to do ♪ trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants for comfortable relief. one small smoothie is $14.63, please. $14 girl, what is you doing? but making smoothies is such a hassle. not with blendjet. what's going on? shhhh. hold that thought. just pour in some milk, throw in some frozen fruit, and in 20 seconds you've got yourself a nutritiou and delicious smoothie. mmm! tastes just like the ones they sell here. and for a whole lot less. i'm ruined. awww. kick your expensive smoothie bar habit to the curb. order yours now at blendjet.com.

i'm a little anxious, i'm a little excited. i'm gonna be emotional, she's gonna be emotional, buto one of our customers. it.k i hope you enjoy these amazing gifts. oh my goodness. oh, you guys. i know you like wrestling, so we got you some vip tickets. you have made an impact. so have you. for you guys to be out here doing something like this, it restores a lot of faith in humanity.

andrea canning (voiceover): in december 2015, netflix released "making a murderer." and it ignited a bonfire of controversy over the convictions of steven avery and brendan dassey. was framed by law enforcement. viewers believe the claims

avery had been making all along, he was framed by law enforcement. >> who would want to set you up in something like this? >> electing i can think of is manitowoc the county. they didn't have to pay. >> did they plant evidence? sure, they did. >> can do cut is a priest cousin. she says she predicted something might bad would happen to him after he was exonerated earlier in that new case. remember, she -- he recently fired a lawsuit against a local sheriff's department was lawful -- unlawful conviction. >> why did you think that? >> something just told me they weren't going to handle -- the handover steve avery $36 million or any money. you're just gonna be watching him. look what happened. >> avery ended up settling that lawsuit for $400,000 before his trial. the county did not acknowledge any wrongdoing. he is the money to hire his defense attorneys. dean strength and beating. >> we knew going in it is going to be a difficult defense. >> we spoke to buting in early 2016. >> we had a very tough defense in this case. no one wants to say the defense that the police directly planted evidence or friend somebody. >> it goes against society.

those people are there to help us. that the police. >> right. but it's where we thought the evidence pointed. >> the reason attorneys believe that the fact that officers from the county he was suing were part of the search, in for a huge conflict of interest and for a possible mischief at the crime scene. >> what i can say is from the evidence that i have looked at, i think he was innocent, is innocent. >> preparing for trial, he learned about a bottle of blood left over from his overturned reconviction, which had been sitting in that manitowoc clerk office. >> there is still a styrofoam box that had been slip open with evidence tape. >> that's the big moment. >> it was. >> for many viewers, it was the moment to making a murderer. >> a tiny hole. >> the attorneys theorize that somebody could've pulled the whole in that file and spread a raise blood inside the suv of halbach. esper traces kharkiv? >> your theory is that the key was planted in the residence. >> that is where we thought the evidence pointed, yes. >> by the police. >> by someone. >> you know, it wasn't found and six or seven earlier inches to the trailer. we're talking

about the trailer. it didn't add up. >> khalid investigator, fassbender, or it alongside the local county sheriff's deputies and was employed by a different agency that was the department of justice. this was the first time he had responded publicly to the accusations against him and his former law enforcement colleagues. >> did you have any kind of vendetta against steven avery? >> absolutely not. i didn't know steven avery. i don't know his family. never been there. >> fassbender bristles of the idea that local pastor gaiters could have done anything unethical. >> the people that were there, that i worked with from manitowoc county, were hardworking. pick only wanted to do the right thing and to do this investigation the right way. >> is it possible that blood could have been planted? >> now. everything, all of the evidence [inaudible] >> fassbender no that the chemical called eta had been used to preserve avery's blood in the vile. and that a trial, test showed no presence of eta in the blood found in the suv. >> it didn't match no edta in the blood, in the vehicle. >> that's benders argument? since that blood found in the vehicle didn't contain the chemical, it couldn't have come

from the vile. and he knows that and nurse was prepared to testify that she had made that hole in the bile as part of her usual routine when she drew blood from avery. >> so, the fact that there is a little hole in the top of the vile is normal. >> regarding traces khaki? not bound until the seventh surge of trade a retailer? >> why was it missed during those other surges? >> primarily because of where the key was located. in a small bookcase that was a search yet. it was looked at. >> why not do the thorough search earlier? >> part of it was because we [inaudible] we went in, there did that first search. we had 12 more buildings and former presidents to search. we had a lot to do. >> still, it wasn't just when the key was found that has a very supporter skeptical, it is who found it. these two men. james link and andrew colburn. then with the manitowoc sheriff's county. it turned out he had they had just been deposed in the lawsuit. >> they were deposed, we later found out. >> do you think maybe just by nature being with manitowoc that maybe they shouldn't have been there at all just to avoid all of this speculation. >> it's easy to -- go to second

guess. i think we would have done that if we have the resources, but you're talking about a small, rural county being assisted by a smaller rural county. you need resources. >> steven avery says these guys had it up for me. the whole department was a great me. this was the perfect opportunity for them to have access to my trailer, planned the key. >> never saw that. never saw that from anyone at manitowoc county. >> fassbender says he believes a conspiracy to frame avery put him in virtually impossible to carry out. >> i could go on and on about the planting defense and how absurd it is with the multiple agencies that we had in there. >> i'm your friend right now. >> but it was that video of brandon dassey, which would really put fassbender at the center of the storm. and interrogation so controversial, it might get a breeze nephew out of prison. >> how much of brendan ducey's

confession was true? >> coming up -- >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way. they got it in the worst way. >> when dateline continues. >> welcome back to dateline. i'm craig melvin. investigators denied steven avery for the would really psbender at the center of the storm, an interrogation. so controversial it might get avery's nephew out of prison.

how much of brendan dassey's confession was true? coming up. those officers wanted that information in the worst way, and they got it in the worst way. craig melvin: when "dateline" continues. the all-in-one and done symptom relief of mucinex is delivered fast with doordash to the comfort of your couch. slow down!... i mean (coughs) slow down! ahh! watch it! ♪♪ come on! a hero will answer the call... (laughs) you just have to answer the door. oof! that was fast. ♪♪ mucinex available on doordash. ahh! it's comeback season.

i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save.

>> u.s. central command says killed multiple iran-backed militants. the strikes come after a torn attack earlier in the day that we did three u.s. service members. whom president russian opposition leader alexei navalny has been found after nearly three weeks since contact was lost with him. navalny's associates, say he was moved to a prison colony above the arctic circle. now back to dateline.

>> welcome back to dateline. i'm craig melvin. investigators denied steven avery for the murder of a halbach. after, all his nephew, brandon, confessed. but did he tell detectives the truth or what he thought they wanted to hear? here with more of our story is andrea canning. >> all of the renewed attention in the steven avery saga has shed light on the other defendant in the case, brandon dassey. the teenager had been convicted of rape and murder. just family, north of it made any sense. >> was brandon someone capable of rape? >> no. no. i don't think he knew what it was at the time. >> and 2008, attorney stephen tourism and laura nirider took up ducey's case for his appeal. they saw a mentally challenged team with a low iq. >> how dismal garage? >> g a r a g e.

>> what did you think of brendan desi when you met him in person? >> brandon is a simple soul. i was struck by his humanity. this is not someone i could see making a crime like this. >> does the psychological power and integrity -- interrogation. >> two attorneys are based at the northwestern university school of law and chicago. they were to free a number of war fully convicted defendants. say what they learned about dallas's case, it is doubted them. >> nobody was in brandon dempseys corner at the moment he needed help the most. >> the beginning they say, with this myth. >> give me one word to describe him -- >> unbelievable? >> unconscionable. >> he came on board to defend deceit just after that interrogation got a breeze

nephew -- they discovered that his attorney had made legal mistakes that caused him to be removed from the case. his face online vitriol from dawsey's supporters. >> is it okay if i read you some of the comments? >> sure. sure, go ahead. >> disgusting human being. you are disgrace to the wisconsin judicial system. a man with a

second civil. >> i've seen it. >> in one instance, working to cut a plea deal well does he was in jail, had reached for his client to speak with investigators. but he himself didn't show up. >> it has downturn stomach. >> that was a mistake. >> this is huge though. a 16 your kid with a low iq, with no attorney present, no parent. it's kind of like feeling someone to the wolves in a way. would you apologize to brendan jassy? >> well, i apologize to him for not being at the interview. >> there were mistakes made. >> sure, but none of them were the verdict of jesse's case. >> there are people who disagree with that. >> sure. >> but as dassey's attorneys dal further into those stunning statements the team made, they came to believe something more disturbing. that investigators, tom fassbender and mark wiegart had four sitting into making a false confession. >> they obviously took

advantage of a disabled you and got him to say what they wanted him to say. >> don't lie to us now, okay? what happened? >> you're just hurting yourself if you live now. >> he's got severe learning disabilities. an inability to respond in a narrative type answers and they're in precisely the areas that make him vulnerable to the kind of tactics the police officers seized in this case. >> the tourney say the investigators manipulated deathly with coaxing statements like these from fassbender, who is seated just off camera. >> i'm your friend right now. it's all right, you are doing the right thing. >> they should never have made those suggestions that they wanted to comfort him. that all would be well. those kinds of

tactics when used on a kid like brandon are a recipe for false confessions. >> and they say the investigators manipulation of the teen escalated far behind simple coaxing. >> the officers needed branded to provide information that only the real killer would know. and they knew what they wanted him to say. >> they accuse the investigators of planting details about the crime indices mind to get the answers they wanted. for example -- remember stephen -- avery's dna on the hood latch? they say investigators as desi leading questions to confirm that his uncle had looked under the hood of the car. >> did he raise the hood at all anything like then? to do something to the car? >> yeah.

>> why did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? >> i don't need it, but i know he went under. >> and as his attorney say in that same interview, investigators used another crucial detail they learned about the case from the forensics. >> tell us. what else did you do? something with the head. >> they had received a report from the wisconsin crime lab indicating that the first time how teresa halbach had died. she'd been shot in the head. they were extremely hard to get brendan to say that. >> we have the evidence, brenda. we need you to be honest with us. >> then he cut off her hair. >> what else was done to her head? >> that he punched her. >> what else? >> it's okay. what do you make here? >> cut her.

>> what else happens to her, and her head? >> extremely, extremely important to tell us this for us to believe you. >> come on, brandon. what else? >> that's all i can remember. >> all right, i was gonna come out and ask you. who shot her in the head? >> he did. >> why didn't you tell us that. >> because i couldn't think of it. >> those officers wanted that information in the worst way and they got it in that worst way. by feeding it straight to brandon dassey. >> even they know that that is bad police practice. >> then, now writer discovered something at the end of that interview that was a revelation to them. something jurors and the trial never heard. jassy speaking to his mother. >> i never did nothing or something. >> did you? >> not really. >> when he may not really? >> they got to my head. >> the first moment that brendan gets outside of the influence of those interrogators, he says, now, this is not true, they got to my head. >> but tom fassbender, the interrogator himself, sees it all very differently. >> coming up -- >> this was seen b but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. that'll be $19.45. oh, i'm just paying for my own salad. right now, we are in a defining moment. people across the country are being denied basic reproductive health care. more than ever, people need planned parenthood. and more than ever, we need you. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom

to control our own bodies. go online, call this toll-free number, or scan the code on your screen now, with your $19 monthly gift. with restrictions and barriers to care on the rise across the country, there's never been a more important time to join. help us protect access to care and reproductive freedom. help us fight for the policies that protect our right to control our own bodies and ensure future generations have the ability to decide their own future. help us make sure high-quality, affordable health care is available to all who need it. the care that i was given at planned parenthood was the most compassionate, kind care that i have received. truly, like, if planned parenthood had not stepped in, i would not be here today. they saved my life. visit this website, call, or scan the code with your $19 monthly gift. join right now, and if you do,

we'll send you this "care. no matter what." t-shirt with our thanks. this is a defining moment. together we can fight back against barriers to reproductive care. and we need your support more than ever. it is your right to have safe health care. that's it. it's health care. and everybody deserves health care. don't wait. join today. go online, call or scan right now. and help planned parenthood continue to protect and provide care, no matter what. ( ♪♪ ) the all-in-one and done symptom relief of mucinex is delivered fast with doordash to the comfort of your couch. slow down!... i mean (coughs) slow down! ahh! watch it! ♪♪ come on! a hero will answer the call... (laughs) you just have to answer the door.

oof! that was fast. ♪♪ mucinex available on doordash. ahh! it's comeback season. >> for his interrogation of andrea canning (voiceover): for his interrogation of brendan dassey, now seen by millions, brandon dassey, now seen by millions, tom fassbender has

come under fire in court and online. >> this was seen by many as a false confession. do you see it as a false confession or a real confession? >> i feel it's a real confession. >> were you ever trying to extract a false confession? >> absolutely not. >> that's better denies that his expressions of sympathy for jesse or manipulative. >> i legitimately was concerned for him. that wasn't staged or strategy. >> i think people took at the other way? the more sinister way that you were taking advantage of him? >> it's easy -- it's a cynical approach, so to speak, watching tv, watching movies. how cops are depicted on movies. trying to trick people into saying stuff. everything about the interview with brandon was soft, comfortable. >> but comfortable might not be over desi supporters with you, especially given his age and intelligence level. >> what about his iq? when you watch him, you can tell that he is a lower iq. >> i don't -- i don't -- know. >> could you tell that he wasn't like other boys his age? >> more socially, probably. i don't want to cross the iq social line. he could think. he knew right from wrong. >> there's a passable he is easily manipulated? >> it's possible.

>> he sounded confused at times. >> quite possibly. >> he didn't know what was up and down. i don't, know just watching it. >> i don't know if about that. he had 1 million things going on in his head at that time. >> that's tenderizes to charges that he and his partner made him appropriately planted ideas and as his head like in that exchange about the hood latch. >> what did he do under the hood, that's what he did? >> what did brandon say? >> he agreed that stephen went under there. >> you see the word agreed. so, you brought it up first. >> yeah, i believe some. >> and that's one of the areas that you came under fire for. >> yes. >> it's that you were planting things in his mind. >> yes, that is what they said. >> in the rare instances where we did ask him specifically about things, yes. and that can happen in an interview. >> can you take that as a reliable answer, given how it was spoonfed to him? >> well, there segment i grew, no. i would say, the entirety of the interview, i would say yes. >>

as for that other moment that has angered so many followers of the case -- >> all right, i'm just gonna come out and ask you, who shot her in the head? >> heated. >> any regrets about that? bring it up yourselves? putting that in his head? >> there are always things that you can improve on. they're instances because of brandon's personality that we had to talk to him about and ask more specifically certain questions and that happens. >> would you say to those people have made to part of this big discussion about false confessions, three yelling at their tvs because they didn't like that job that you did? >> just that it is easy to -- your quarterback. it's easy to second guess that i -- desperately why i'm here to explain that there was nothing nefarious done. >> even fassbender wonders if everything jassy said in the confession was true. >> we didn't try to manipulate brandon. we tried to get the truth. i don't believe that it was a false confession. other parts of it that he may have not done? i don't know. you know, i just don't know. >> in august of 2016, a federal judge weighed in with a bombshell. in

response to a brief filed by the attorneys, devin ruled that the confession was involuntary. with that, the judge overturned the conviction and ordered dassey to be released from prison. >> what was that like for you hearing that news? >> mixed emotions. i know we did everything above board. that magistrate rules, in his opinion, which is all right. that's the system. >> are you okay if he walks free? >> i'm not okay if the family is not okay. i believe brandon was involved in this. that he was there and he is involved in it. >> the wisconsin attorney

general also believes brandon was involved in traces murder. he appealed the judges order for at least, asking a full panel of federal judges to review the case. and september 2017, that request was granted. the seventh circuit u.s. court of appeals heard arguments over whether death is -- confession work course. nine months that, or the judge's panel upheld the finding that his confession was voluntary, meaning the young man will remain in prison. the u.s. supreme court declined to review his case. brandon d. c. 's lawyers have vowed to continue the fight for his freedom. >> coming up -- >> he told me to watch dateline. >> in the steven avery case, how a six-year-old dateline led to a brand-new attorney. >> i, said that's a woman that's going to get even out of prison. >> when dateline continues. >> steven avery and his supporters have

been hoping for good news and they couldn't know it yet, but help was just around the corner. >> he's very gentle and loving. >> said the agreement is his longtime friend and one-time fiancée. convinced of his innocence, she says she searched for years to find the right attorney to take on his complicated case. during a call from prison, avery told her to watch dateline. >> he had heard that there is going to be this ferguson case on dateline. so, he told me to watch it just to see the lawyer. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis takes you off course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast,

rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc tried to slow me down... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc caused damage rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid-free remission... ...and the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check, check, and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least 1 heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. put uc in check and keep it there with rinvoq. ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq and learn how abbvie can help you save.

♪ if there's pain when you try to poo ♪ ♪ and going sometimes feels like you ♪ ♪ pushed through a pineapple or two ♪ ♪ colace is the brand you need ♪ ♪ to soften stools, we're all agreed ♪ ♪ #2 should be easy to do ♪ trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants for comfortable relief.

for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. >> steven avery and his

andrea canning (voiceover): steven avery and his supporters had been hoping for good news. and they couldn't know it yet, but help was just around the corner. he was very gentle and very loving. supporters have been hoping for good news and they couldn't know it yet, but help was just around the corner. >> he's very gentle and loving. >> said the agreement is his longtime friend and one-time fiancée. convinced of his innocence, she says she searched for years to find the right attorney to take on his complicated case. during a call from prison, avery told her to watch dateline. >> he had heard that there is going to be this ferguson case on dateline. so, he told me to watch it just to see the lawyer. >> that dateline program, august 2011, told the story of ryan ferguson. a young man sitting in prison for a murder he said he didn't commit. attorney kathleen solar was determined to get him out. >> nothing is as riveting as this. when the trial has been

lost, everything's been lost and you have someone in there who is innocent. it's like the ultimate challenge i think. >> i, said that's the woman that is going to get stephen out of prison. >> cell nurse specializes in wrongful conviction cases and says she has freed many defendants, including ryan ferguson. cindy contacted her and she joined the clay -- case not long after making a murder came out. we caught up with her at the correctional institution when she paid a visit to a break in early 2016. >> nadal question -- do you think you have new evidence that could free steven avery? >> we do, yeah. >> she invited dateline into this war room she created in her office outside of chicago. all dedicated to the avery case. >> do we know if that was tested? >> she even showed us this rap

for she bought to get a better understanding of traces vehicle. then, in august 2016, too much meter fanfare, she filed a motion in county court, seeking new evidence. >> we will find out one way or the other which way it points. >> she is known as a defensive attorney that is aggressive. >> a chief -- >> she's looking for new evidence to argue the entire case was done the wrong

way. she's basically trying to put the state on trial. >> in her 45-page legal motion, is on their attacks along portsmouth, tries to poke holes in the prosecution's case and raises new questions. >> she notes that teresa's cell phone pinged off of the cell phone tower 13 miles away later that day, suggesting maybe she left there alive. there's also indications that other people, not from law enforcement, entered the property during the investigation, raising the prospect of other potential suspects. >> and she has won an early round. in november 2016, a judge granted her access to some of the evidence so her experts could perform new forensic tests, including more advanced testing on a breeze blood from the rav4. >> in june 2017, she filed a motion asking for a new trial for every. in a statement she told dateline, we

will be able to demonstrate exactly how the evidence was planted in the early part of the investigation. avery, she insists, was framed for a crime he did not commit. but in october 2017, i wisconsin circuit court denied that request. she put -- to the wisconsin court of appeals and promised that she is just beginning to fight. as for former prosecutor, ken kratz and his new book, it's eleanor dismisses his claims of avery's treatment of women and interactions with teresa. saying, there is no proof mister avery was becoming obsessed with mrs. halbach. and that rehashing a story about it admissible evidence seems pointless. still there also notes, mr. cross has no qualifications which would allow him to diagnose mr. avery as a psychopath. mr. avery has

never been diagnosed as a psychopath. kratz, who prosecuted both steven avery and brendan ducey says he's undaunted. >> are you afraid of kathleen's owner? >> no. i'm not in the case anymore. should be afraid of anything. my involvement concluded -- >> she could unravel your work if what she is saying has some weight to it. you don't think she is a chance? >> i don't. >> she's a competent, why are you confident? >> we spent 18 months putting this case together. this wasn't just thrown together. it wasn't crystal cops. it was done very professionally, very well. >> kratz does have personal regrets. in his book, he admits to pass prescription drug abuse and says he is ashamed he sent sexually suggestive defense to a balanced victim two years after the first trial. a scandal that led to his resignation. he still takes issue with making a murderer. he says he's moving on with his life. >> i'm hoping this book will change the narrative. >> but with all the talk of guilt or innocence, trials and re-trials, peterson says a person being forgotten is her friend. teresa. >> she is the reason why we are here talking about this and she deserves to be remembered. >> i love hugs. >> for her memories, cam says she goes back to this grainy video diary theresa may three years before she died. it was played in greece sentencing. >> i love taking pictures. i love holding a camera in my hand. >> it gives me the chills every are my heart and i'll you. >> i just want to know that whenever i do die, i want people at love to know that whenever i die, that i was ha >> -- -- that's all for this edition of

dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. melvin. thank you for watching. melvin. thank you for watching. melvin. thank you for watching. ♪ ♪ ♪ that is what she did. small problems. as a busy mom, and a business executive. but as your career was on the rise. her marriage was on the rocks.