those who support his vision and ideas in terms of what needs to be done in the next administration we know that other campaigns have tried to nip away at his lead and have not been successful. it's important to pay attention to iowa's mixed record in terms of picking winners but it's not worth ignoring because what does happen in iowa, in terms of the republican base we could see happen in other states moving forward. >> with the collapse of desantis, it appears that new hampshire may be a bigger test for trump than iowa. but we will see. >> eugene scott thank you for joining us this morning. and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. beautiful live picture of the rockefeller center christmas tree this morning. hope you're enjoying great holiday time with family and

friends. it is wednesday, december 27th, i'm willie geist. joe and mika have the morning off. a lot to get to including israeli forces shifting military efforts to southern and central gaza with officials warning the war could take many more months. and hours from now, antony blinken and alejandro mayor kas are set to meet with mexican president obrador. plus donald trump continues to claim he should be immune from any prosecution surrounding his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. we'll have the latest there. also ahead, bus drivers across the country increasingly under attack on the job. we'll dig into an alarming trend and what officials are doing about it. with us this morning, jonathan lemire, susan paige, and retired

four star navy admiral james stavridis. good morning to you all. let's begin together with israel expanding the ground invasion in gaza. this as the united states continues to urge israel to protect civilian lives and shift to a more low intensity operation. josh letterman has the latest from tel aviv. >> reporter: israel is warning the war with hamas will continue for many more months despite the pressure to end the war quickly. the israeli military said it's intensifying attacks not only in southern gaza but also in refugee camps in if central gaza where on christmas eve we saw some 70 or more palestinians killed in a strike on a refugee camp. today in southern gaza some 80 palestinians were buried in a

mass grave after their bodies were returned to the palestinian authorities. there was row upon row a tractor that had to carve and path and a hole to bury these bodies as mourners showed up hoping to identify the bodies of their loved ones. we saw new video from northern gaza, the first city hit during the war after israel started retaliating for the hamas terrorist attacks. it and s a waste land with few homes or structures for anybody to go back to if and when this war actually ends. a senior netanyahu aiser is now in washington where he has been meeting with top white house and state department officials about what comes after hamas with the u.s. and israel now at odds over what should happen after this war. the u.s. saying israel should not occupy the gaza strip but prime minister netanyahu saying israel will need to maintain security control over the gaza

strip indefinitely. >> josh ledderman reporting for us from tel aviv. thank you very much. ron durmer in washington this week talking to national security adviser jake sullivan who advised him to go to a new phase of the war. interesting to hear from prime minister netanyahu saying there's no slowing of this war. we're going to go until we meet our objectives. how do you reconcile those two views from the united states and israel? >> i don't think there's going to be a lot of reconciliation, at least in the short term, willie. what you are going to see is this continued relentless attack, specifically going after, really, three things. one is the hamas leadership.

number two are these tunnels underneath this gaza strip. and thirdly, on the better side of the coin, searching for the hostages. those are the three military objectives at this point. i think you're going to continue to see a very high level campaign. now having said all of that, i'll tell you where the conversation is going in washington right now. gaza is its own little corner of hell but what everyone is increasingly concerned about is a widening of this conflict. we saw strikes in damascus yesterday by israel against an iranian revolutionary guard general. very significant. you're seeing more activity from hezbollah and out at sea we're seeing attacks against

commercial shipping by another iranian proxy group. so that piece of this, that expansion, willie is what has everyone's attention, alongside with trying to get the israelis to dial it back. and i'll conclude with this, all this as we head into a u.s. election year. >> we'll dig deeper into the houthi attacks in the red sea thwarted yesterday several of them by the united states navy. obviously this is a thorny situation to begin with but we're coming into an election here here, and the president is feeling pressure from democrats, progressives in the country we saw polling from particularly young voters who say they don't like the way he's handling the support for the war in gaza. take us between that discussion with blinken, sullivan and ron dermer, what was it like in that

room? >> it's a real difference of opinion right now. we have seen the rift if you will between the united states and israel about israel's conduct in this war only grow the longer it has taken with israel ramping up the attacks, civilian casualties mounting suggesting this could be many more months. we have heard, jake sullivan was in israel a week or so back urging it wind this phase of the war down in weeks. so israel definitely shifting the time line. there's a difference of opinion with whatever happens after the war with netanyahu making clear that he needs to play some sort of role in the post war gaza while the u.s. believes that an occupation there would be a significant mistake. also the u.s. again delivered messages to jerusalem via dermer to try to limit civilian

casualties to this point. those requests have fallen on deaf ears. no one suggested any break through came from last night's meeting which did ramp up late, we'll hear more today. but susan paige, the president's poll numbers have slipped, reaching recent lows in part how he has handled the war. support among jewish americans has gone up, but among muslim and voters of colors it has slipped. and the democratic base does not seem excited to vote for president biden again, that's a real problem. >> and, of course, young people have been an important part of president biden's coalition. important faction of support for him in the last campaign. and at the moment both show

donald trump doing well among young voters, voters under 35. that's a great political turn. the administration finds itself facing a more divided american public, not just among young people as we see the photographs, this footage of the devastation in gaza, the deaths among women and children, civilians, aide workers, journalists. that does more on the pressure to rein in israel. so these statements are alarming to the administration because it shows israel publically determined to increase the war, to continue the war, not to figure out ways to roll back the combat to become more targeted and to do more to allow aid to go to the civilians in gaza. this is a big, international and domestic issue for the biden administration to have to deal

with. >> and again, prime minister netanyahu on the front lines two days ago saying this war will end when we say it ends. we're not going to listen to outside pressure about how fast or slowly to move. so there are fears of a widening war. militants in syria launched several rockets. according to two u.s. defense officials the attacks happened yesterday at a patrol base in syria. there were no reported damage or injuries to infrastructure. they follow strikes in iraq by the united states in retaliation for a drone attack that injured american soldiers. we have the report on that from london. >> reporter: the u.s. military has attacked iranian backed militant groups in iraq hours after personnel were injured in a drone strike on tuesday morning in iraq. the u.s. defense secretary, lloyd austin, said three sites

used by hezbollah were hit in response to attacks on forces in iraq and syria. so who are kataib hezbollah. they're financed by iran and have been one of the most prominent groups in attacks in iraq for some time now. it forms the group of militias under iran's patronage that's also been incorporated into the iraqi army. but these attacks are nothing new. the u.s. has repeatedly targeted groups in syria in recent years. and depending on the political situation, these can ebb and flow considerably. given what's going on in the region and the heightened tensions the attacks have dramatically increased. since october 17th alone, there have been over 100 of these types of attacks by iranian backedmilitias.

so as the attacks in gaza continues, iran is carrying out threats through their proxies these days, whether it's the houthis in the red sea or militias targeting u.s. forces. ando tensions in the red sea where a maritime force is on patrol guarding shipping routes from terrorist groups. the united states deployed planes to shoot down missiles and drones launched by houthi rebels. admiral, this is what you were talking about a moment ago. coming from all angles, iranian backed groups, whether it's the houthis or hezbollah, hamas in gaza. let's talk about the shipping lanes in the red sea and the united states' responsibility here. they thwarted attacks yesterday from the low-level drones. what is the united states going to do if the attacks are ramped

up? if it's a missile strike or something heavier coming at them? >> let's start with the context here. the red sea is the size of the state of california. so it's enormous. you can see it, it's the blue body of water in the center of that graphic. we're trying to patrol it, if you will, with about half a dozen guided missile destroyers. picture trying to control california with six police cars. it's just an enormous challenge. and that's before you get into the area, willie just south of the arabian peninsula where you have double the size of alaska. you have about another half dozen ships there. so it sounds great, right. the united states is on patrol, and good news we created an international coalition as we are want to do. now this one called prosperity guardian, operation prosperity

guardian, bringing in, and this is a good thing so far, about a dozen allies are going to contribute ships. but it's like trying to drink the ocean at this point. it's a huge area. so that's the context. i think we are, unfortunately, going to see the houthis who are simply creatures of iran, acting under direction of iran, continue to go after shipping. and here's why you ought to care. do you remember two years ago when a ship closed the suez canal because it turned sideways in the canal? that brought the global supply chain not quite to its knees but significant slow down. that's because about 20% of the world's shipping passes through the red sea and the suez canal which is at the very top of the red sea. so we have to worry about this a lot. to answer your question, what do we do about it?

in addition to being defensive and getting more ships out to patrol and keep that flow of global shipping open, i think we're going to have to ultimately go after the houthi camps ashore on the arabian peninsula and possibly go after iran itself. and back to the political side of this, that's exactly where the administration does not want to go. does not want to expand this. on the other hand, he will get pressure from the right, the republican party, saying why aren't you doing more to respond to these attacks? it's a conundrum for the administration and, of course, it lands even as they're trying to deal with what's happening in gaza and what's hpening in ukraine. >> so admiral put together what's happening in the red sea with the attacks ali aruzi was just talking about. 105 attacks on u.s. troops coming in syria and iraq. what's the objective here from

iran? as you say these are proxy groups for iran. are they trying to draw the united states in into war attacking our troops on bases, going after red sea? >> no, i think they're trying to avoid war going after our ships in the red sea. that's why we have to be forceful. iran is trying to take advantage of the situation in gaza where israel has committed a significant portion of the military power, iran wants to take advantage of that, willie, by pushing from the north with hezbollah. by conducting more attacks in and around syria and iraq where we have thousands of troops in iraq and hundreds of troops in syria. they're not in the best defensive positions. iran is going to test that. and then this shipping route approach is designed to create a

lot of chaos, elevate oil prices, that's good news for iran, of course, and lastly, iran wants to appear strong, powerful in the middle east, they're also showing their capabilities to their two sponsors, china and russia. so iran will continue pushing, my view, until we push back a lot harder than we have so far. that's not welcome news in the white house. >> we're going to pause for 60 seconds. a lot more to discuss with the admiral and john and susan. including a new round of troop mobilization in ukraine following the country's strike on a russian warship. and we'll get the admiral's take at the u.s. southern border. "morning joe" is back in one minute. border "morning joe" is back in one minute

hi, my name is joann, and i lost 75 pounds on golo. the other times i've lost weight, i was tired, run down. with golo, you feel great as you lose weight. i have enough energy to exercise every day. (energetic music fades) we reported yesterday on the targeting of a russian ship by ukraine's air force in crimea.

video captures what ukraine said the ship was destroyed in the attack. russia said the ship has been hit but didn't say if it was permanently damaged. russia has moved ships away from crimea due to similar attacks. and ukraine's top commander calls for another round of troop mobilization yesterday, the first since russia's invasion nearly two years ago. last week they proposed drafting up to half a million more troops in the fight against russia. now approaching its second year. so jonathan lemire, obviously as we look at what's going on, there are moments like the destruction of that ship, the russian military ship and pushback where russia makes advances as well. stalemate may not be the right word but frustrating to people who support ukraine and want to see progress here. obviously as we sit through this holiday break, where congress

left a couple weeks ago without providing the support that president biden requested. >> congress back next week after the recess. before they left town, the senate felt like they made progress on the border security for foreign aid deal which would include funds for ukraine but didn't reach an agreement and once they do, it faces an uncertain future in the house. but in europe, every so often it seems ukraine wants to remind russia it can strike in russian-controlled territory or in mother russia itself and this is the latest example of that. this is a spectacular explosion and win for the ukrainian forces. but along the front lines, it's frozen partially because the winter weather has set in and also because neither side can make any significant inroads. what's your assessment there of where things stand on the front? there's reporting that putin and russia may be open to cease-fire

talks but only to solidify his gains he's not giving any territory back so that seems like a nonstarter with the ukrainians. so where do you see this going in the months ahead? >> before we get to that, i simply have to make a comment about that strike that massive explosion you showed. ships don't blow up like that unless they are full of ammunition or fuel. that, i would say, knowing the class of ship, it's a tank carrier kind of ship, probably was full of iranian drones i would guess. so that's a big win for the iranians. and i wouldn't understate the point you made a moment ago jonathan. this is very significant. ukraine has pushed back the entire black sea fleet despite the fact they have no navy. they're doing it with drones, long range missiles, intelligence, cyber. russia has been forced to

retreat. that's keeping the shipping lanes open and allowing the ukrainian economy to continue. it's an extraordinary military story and it's going to be recognized as a real pivot in how military force is applied. let's go front. i think, willie, stalemate the right word right now. i don't see any chance of a gnificant movement across the border. you're showing the yellow, ukraine, red russia. i don't see a significant movement certainly through the winter. what could change in the spring is the addition of f 16 tactical fighters supplied by u.s. and our nato allies. that gives the ukrainians something they have not had in the fight which is the chance to create air superiority over the ground forces. that might create a thrust opportunity. but frankly, i think this one is kind of settling down towards a frozen conflict. that's why you're hearing putin

talk about negotiation. ukraine will give it i think one more big push in spring 2024 if that does not crack the russian lines or something doesn't change in moscow, i think this one is headed towards a negotiation. last thought, it won't happen however until after the u.s. election. putin absolutely will not go to a negotiating table until he sees the results of the '24 election. he will think to himself if former president trump becomes president trump that's a better negotiator for him. he'll wait to see that card turned over, but long story short, i think continued stalemate, propable negotiation until the end of 2024. >> admiral, this is susan. the biden white house has made a priority for trying to get this aid for ukraine, but it's not guaranteed that we'll get

through congress. what are the consequences in the immediate future if that aid is not approved, coming from the united states? >> in a word, they're dire for kyiv. now i don't think russia, even if we cut off all funds would have the capability to simply sweep across the country and conquer kyiv in a weekend. it's the kind of dire when the supply of ammunition is bleeding off and there's still two or three months of full strength ammunition in that pipeline, u.s. european command from my successor several times over is in charge of that. that will continue. i'm cautiously optimistic. i under line cautious that this package will get through early in the new year and final thought, the europeans are a big

part of this, they are half of all the aid going to ukraine. while there are some cracks in the support in various countries in europe, i think the europeans will stand on this one as well. so i'm hoping the center will hold. i give the ukrainians two or three months before putin could start to really mobilize and move harder across that line. i don't think it's a complete collapse in the offing here. but it is deeply worrisome. again, the word dire. >> we'll keep an eye on that. admiral before we let you go, we want to get your take on this. secretary of state blinken and secretary mayor kas travel to mexico todayo speak with president obrador. the visit comes as up to 6,000 central american migrants the u.s. mexico boarder.r way

the visit is key to the political agenda as republicans are seeking action on border policy in return for support on military aid. so everything we've been talking about tied together here. what's your view of the meeting what could be done here in a conversation between secretary blinken, secretary mayorkas and president obrador to stem the flow of migrants at the border. >> before i was nato commander i spent three years as u.s. commander southern command all military-to-military engagement south of the united states. so i know the territory a bit. in the end, all roads to border security lead through mexico city. we tend to think to ourselves that we have this 1,800 mile border from the pacific ocean to the caribbean as though on the other side of it is a parking lot and we should just figure it

out on our side of the border. there's no silver bullet here. if you take this migrant challenge, it's really three things. it's the source, where there's extreme poverty and gangs and the source, by the way, is not just central america, stretches to venezuela, many migrants are from china, sub-saharan africa. it's a global sourcing challenge. we need to work with allies, bit by bit trying to make conditions better in those places. and then the transit zone. mexico could help enormously and they did and have at times, kept migrants on their side of the border but allowed us to come and do processing for asylum requests before these people set foot in the united states. and then finally to the political season in washington, it's here at home, it's the

demand signal that we send, if you will, from our labor force that is drawing these people here. we need to measure and regulate that and yes, we have to also physically control the southern border. so it's a big basket of challenges. mexico can be an enormous part in all three of those zones. >> fascinating. former supreme allied commander of nato, retired four star navy admiral james stavridis. i'm tempted to ask you about the playoff picture too in the nfl but we'll give you a rest. we'll talk to you later in the week. thank you. >> you bet. former president trump continues to push for immunity over his part in the effort to overturn the 2020 election.

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a life picture, sun still not up yet, 6:32 in the morning reagan airport in washington. in a recent survey, the daily mail asked voters to describe in one word what they thought donald trump and joe biden want if voted into the white house next year. the results were compiled into a word cloud where the most popular wd is the most dominant on the graphic. for biden, the word was nothing followed by economy and peace. for trump, the most popular word was revenge followed closely by dictatorship and power. trump then posted it to his social media page, proud of the outcome here. this is not a scientific study but perhaps instructive in some

way. donald trump enjoying the fact that people show his return to the white house with revenge. and on the joe biden campaign probably like seeing the word nothing coming to mind to voters. >> no. nothing is a tough word to see the center of your word cloud. but at least president biden's team didn't post that on social media. unlike what donald trump did. this is a man, susan, who has told his supporters i will be your retribution. he and his aids talk about how he will get revenge on his political foes crossing lines of norms and democratic values to do so. i guess when he says something we should just believe him. if we believe him, that's scary stuff. >> that's really a lesson from 2016, right? there was a lot of debate about taking donald trump, the candidate, literally or

figuratively and we discovered yes, what he says he means. he does things that seem unlikely in the when he says them initially. he's making -- donald trump is making no secret about his agenda if he wins the white house again at the end of next year. so we should take him seriously when he describes these things. as you say, there's a big warning flag here for the biden campaign as well. for having failed. if former president trump has outlined a clear agenda of revenge, the current president, joe biden, has a political imperative to outline an agenda that americans understand and they hope one they will back and support. that is something i think is fair to say he has not done so far. >> so donald trump continues to claim he should be immune from any prosecution surrounding his events to overturn t 2020

election. over the weekend he and his attorneys demanded the appeals court toss out the case against himnd reiterated that stance last night in at on truth social writing i wasn't campaigning, the election was over. i was doing my duty as president to expose and further investigate a rigged and stolen election. many of the people who worked with and around have said as much. with us anthony colely, the top spokesman for the department of justice under attorney general merrick garland. good to see you. it feels like we have had the conversation about whether the president is immune. what's your take on the former president's lawyers that he should have immunity from this huge federal case looming over him. >> thank you for having me.

this is an untested legal question but i tend to believe that sometimes the law and common sense are aligned. i cannot imagine that any court would give donald trump a lifetime get out of jail free card for criminal acts committed while he was president. and another thing, i really was struck by this word cloud that you just mentioned and you and susan had this great conversation about. i think more than anything willie, is that that cloud -- that graphic that he reposted was posted from a position of weakness not a position of strength. i think he knows full well that next year at this time he could, number one he could -- may have lost to joe biden again decisively or he could actually be criminally convicted by a jury of his peers in a court of law. i think more than anything what

we saw with both of these posts is a president that is afraid. >> i think there's the other possibility, though, that he could have won and could be making the criminal prosecutions go away. i want to get your take on the development we had at the end of last week when the supreme court did not decide to immediately hear jack smith's effort to expedite the appeals case. so there's going to be some delays it would appear from the early spring start date. what's your read on whether you think scotus will pick it up after the process and when might that trial start in. >> i think they're going to eventually pick this up. i spent time home in north carolina this weekend and on my mother's wall in the kitchen was the serenity prayer.

do you remember the first line, god, allow me to accept the things i cannot change. that's this question. there are things we have to leave to the court to have. but i think at the end of the day what is good, what is right, what is just, i think those types of things will always win out. so we'll let the courts do what they 'going to do and i think at the end of the day, donald trump is going to be held accountable for his efforts to overturn the election. it's unclear when he's going to face accountability but he will face accountability in a court of law. >> i love your invocation of the serenity prayer. and calling out republicans who argue the justice department is out to get former president trump saying they are leading to a rise in threats against law enforcement and government officials. here's what she said. >> those claims bear no

resemblance to the justice department i know. the justice department that i know is filled with dedicated men and women investigators, lawyers, prosecutors, analysts, professional staff, who get up every day, they get up every day, without regard to who's in the white house or who's in congress. i get something called urgent reports. these are reports that come in the from the field from u.s. attorneys all across the country. and on a weekly basis, sometimes more often, i am getting reports about threats to public officials. threats to our prosecutors. threats to law enforcement agents who work in the justice department. threats to judges. in fact, just this week, just this week, pierre, we've had cases involving threats to kill fbi agents, a supreme court justice and three presidential candidates. >> three? >> that's just this week.

>> that is deputy attorney general lisa monaco. i'm curious what you're hearing from your former colleagues at the department of justice about this. no secret why it's happening it's a strategy of donald trump and the people around him to attack anyone who they view as hurting them no matter how justifiably. >> i can tell you from my time at doj, i was in meetings with both the attorney general and the deputy attorney general when they were discussing some of these threats. and you want to talk about sober moments. this is something that they take very seriously. but, you know, there's also this recognition that it doesn't have to be this way. you all rightly noted that on more than one occasion, time after time again, donald trump is stirring the pot. and he's inspiring people to go out and harm or threaten to harm their fellow americans all

because of the big lie. there are downstream effects of that. i think about ruby freeman and shaye moss, these election workers in georgia. also think about the secret of state in georgia, brad raffensperger, and the governor of georgia and the lieutenant georgia. these are all people, republicans who voted for donald trump, supported him, wanted him to win but refused to go along with the big lie, the conspiracy. and all of these people are receiving threats because of that. you know, my heart hopes that at some point no one in colorado or any of these other states are harmed by these type of threats but history suggests that there are going to be other downstream effects from these types of things. and people's safety is at risk

because of donald trump and his incendiary rhetoric. >> so anthony, what turns this around? we've seen this long-standing deterioration in support of trust in big institutions, including law enforcement and now these very urgent threats against officials. so what can be done about it to try to turn this around and try to make it better? >> susan, it's good to see you. one of the things, i was reading the newspapers this morning and there's this wonderful piece in the op-ed pages. and it talked about how there is a segment of the population, trump supporters, who still believe that -- it's people who are not blindly loyal to donald trump when presented with the facts. now this particular piece focused on the jury trial as the inflection point. but what we know to your point

is there are other inflection points here. there is a reason in the context of campaigns why individuals spend thousands of dollars to invest in door knocking programs. because voters are receptive to hearing from their neighbors about things that they care about. so i think that all of us have a sphere of influence and a circle of friends and it's going to be incumbent on all of us to educate those within our sphere of influence as to what the facts are in this election interference case. we are not going to have to wait necessarily on a jury trial but all of us should use our own circle of friends and inform those to the facts in this case. >> and jack smith is said to have a very, very strong case prepared here. justice and legal affairs

analyst anthony colley great to have your incites here. still ahead seeing a spike in attacks on public transit workers across the united states. what's driving that trend and how authorities are responding. that's next on "morning joe." e g that's next on "morning joe. plus, no interest until january 2027. ends monday. only at sleep number. it■s beginning to look alot like savings! blendjets holiday sale is on now! give the gift of convenience the blendjet 2 portable blender is perfect for everyone on your list. even that picky relative who hates everything. and dont forget the accessories! theyre all on sale! dont wait!

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♪ ♪ human♪ ♪ghts.

♪ ♪ municipal bus drivers are coming under attack at an alarming new rate and the federal transit association is taking action to reduce the assaults. candace wynn reports on the california system that may be the most dangerous in the country. >> reporter: from new york to california, they are essential to the public transit system but the nation's bus drivers can also be sitting ducks facing a dramatic spike in violent attacks. according to the federal transit

administration in recent years there's been a 121% increase in transit worker assaults like this one. >> get down. >> i am. >> in july, gun fire shattered glass around this bus driver on oakland's ac transit system which according to the preliminary data has the highest rate of assaults on transit workers in the country. something ac transit bus driver tina gonzalez knows this is not you've been attacked. >> i've been attacked four other times. >> i want to call the cops. >> surveillance cameras show a 2017 assault on gonzales, she says the attacksre more frequent, and more violent. >> have you ever feared for your life? >> when a kid pulled a gun on me, my supervisor told me one time was just remember you're the only one on that bus that probably doesn't have a gun. it scares the hell out of me. >> reporter: ac transit declined

an interview but said in an email 2023 do it is still being collected. the agency said it had a broader definition of assault than other systems but that one act of violence is too many, and it's adding better protective barriers for drivers. public records requests for bus surveillance videos show what other california bay area drivers are facing. >> i've just been assaulted. >> reporter: violent attacks. pepper spray assaults. >> got to get off the bus. >> why? >> reporter: even a kidnapping by a passenger with a machete. >> turn around, bro. >> reporter: what are real solutions you want as an operator? >> a better shield. not these fake shields that ac transit made. something that like new york has. they have those boxed in. >> reporter: this is what most ac transit buses that we've been seeing have right now. these partial plastic barriers, as for new york they're testing

out these fully enclosed come apartments, both local and national transit leaders tell me they're keeping an eye out on those prototypes to see what they can learn. >> my top priority is to redesign the bus. >> reporter: john costa is the president of the amalgamated transit union, representing operators across the u.s. >> there's more stabbings going on. it's horrible. i mean, i have grown adults come in my office and cry. >> reporter: costa is working with the fta on new safety measures authorized under president biden's 2021 infrastructure law. he said the road to safety has been too slows for drivers like gonzales. >> i never missed a day at work. now, it's like scary to go to work. >> reporter: she now worries any day at work could be her last. >> sad state of affairs, we have to build protective boxes for our bus drivers, we're so grateful for the work they do

every day. candace nguyen reporting. a live report from the southern border as secretary of state antony blinken is expected to meet with mexico's president today to discuss migrants crossing into the united states. "morning joe" will be right back. hmmm... kind of needs to be more, squiggly? perfect!

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a miracle. >> two possession game, florida out of bounds. the losing streak reaches 27 consecutive games. that is the longest -- >> wow, the detroit pistons set an nba single-season record with their 27th consecutive loss last night. detroit started off on a 22-8 run but outscored by the nets, falling behind at the break, a 41 point effort from cade

cunningham, a great player on a bad team, got the pistons ahead early in the fourth. brooklyn took over to win 118-112. the pistons one loss away from the overall record of 28 consecutive losses set by the philadelphia 76ers over a stretch that bridged a couple of different seasons. so, jonathan lemire, the pistons have the single-season consecutive loss record. check go for that all-time two nights from now in boston, playing the best team in the nba right now, the pistons have not won, ready for this? since three days before halloween. remember halloween? feels like a lifetime ago. bad team, going against the best team, your boston celtics in two nights. >> i like our chances, willie. certainly as a fan of growing up to the larry bird 1980s celtics, i hated those pistons teams, i think -- i can't say i feel that

bad for them. i like cade cunningham, a good player, just stuck on a truly terrible team. they get the raptors day after the celtics, maybe, but not a lot of gimmes here. this losing streak could continue for a while. i'll note briefly celtics looked really good on christmas day. that was my favorite present i got was going into l.a., beating the lakers, beat l.a. if the celtics stay healthy they'll be in the mix to the end. that's always a question. >> best record in the nba right now, a tough eastern conference at the top there, the celtics, the bucks, the sixers. orlando playing well, knicks, my knicks. the revelation, looking good, we'll see what happens. coming up, we'll turn back to the news, the israeli military expanding its ground offensive in central gaza. we'll get new reporting from nbc's richard engel inside israel ahead on "morning joe" when we come back in 90 seconds.

that is a live picture at 7:01 in the morning, the ball in times square, which will rise, and then drop, four days from now, as we turn the corner to a critical 2024. welcome back to "morning joe," it is wednesday, december 27th. john than lemire still with us, as the israeli military has expanded its ground offensive into urban refugee camps in central gaza, the idf focusing on southern gaza's largest city as part of its mission to destroy hamas. officials say progress has been made in the north and troops will continue to, quote, preserve and intensify their military achievements there. adding, the war likely will continue for, quote, many more months. the expanded operation comes amid growing international pressure for a cease-fire, even the united states is urging israel to curb civilian casualties, as itas been for some time n. yesterday the israeli prime minister's senior adviser ron dermer was at the white house meeting with secretary of state

antony blinken, andnal security adviser jake sullivan. a white house official tells nbc news, discussed isrl's transition to a different phase of the war t maximize focus on high-value hamas targets as well as hostage negotiations and the plan for post-war gaza. joining us now, former fbi special agent clint watts, the national security analyst for nbc news, and msnbc. so, clint, we'll spare you the politics of all this and how the united states is talking to israel. let's talk about the tactics here for the idf, and how this war is going from their point of view, obviously, the world has concerns about the mounting civilian casualties there, israel says we're going to keep going until we root out hamas, they've said that from the beginning. how is that operation going? >> willie, i think it's at a point of where there's no clear objective or end state inside gaza. if you look at what the israeli

military has done, they're breaching the perimeter, setting up some forward-operating bases, going after what they said in north gaza was the epicenter of hamas activity, and exploring a lot of those tunnels, it wasn't long before they said they were moving towards southern gaza. and in moving towards southern gaza they were then moving towards where they had just displaced most of the palestinians that were in the gaza strip. so they actually made their problem worse by pushing everybody south, and then going to the south where all the people at, where that refugee camp as you were talking about as part of the introduction today. looking at the situation it is early similar from what i remember on the global war on terror in the united states, no clearly defined objective or clearly defined exit plan. if they're focused on really going after hamas's senior leaders it's not really clear they know where they're at at this point. they have eliminated spom but they are unlikely to elimb

eliminate all of them. how many future drk through the use of bombs or hitting civilian targets and creating mass casualties. theirself in quite a predicament at the moment. >> clint, if you're talking, counseling the idf on this, and this is some of what the white house and state department and the u.s. military has been saying to israel, which is to be more targeted in your efforts, to not kill as many civilians they've been killing. we're going of hamas, hamas puts civilians between itself and our bombs and our soldiers, this is a strategy from hamas, we're going to go until we get rid of hamas, go until we bring the hostages home and there will be civilian casualties, what is the idf to do in that predicament? >> yeah, i think they've got to exhibit patience, willie, and come up with a strategy to really separate the people from hamas, meaning they have to separate the civilian side of this situation, and that would be things like how do you build in aid that is going to flow

very, you know, successfully into southern gaza, try and relieve some of that burden that's going on there. separately, they can isolate and destroy these networks, we saw this with the u.s. military, for example, once they moved away from trying to focus on terrain, or dominating entire bits of terrain, then going after actual al qaeda networks and targets which they did in iraq after two or three years of a different approach. then they will find some success. ultimately, though, they need to define what the end state is, saying they're going to go until there is no more hamas, that sounds early familiar to, we're going to fight terrorism as a whole. you might remember this 20 years ago, where it was never clear what the end of that is, what that would be, and what an exit strategy would be, and i just would remind everybody that this has taken an incredible toll on the israeli society and the israeli economy. it's a downward cycle in terms of what's happening in gaza, also in terms of what's happening in israel, and every day that this prolongs we're looking at the potential for a

larger regional war that could bring in many different parties as well. >> clint, that's where i wanted to go with you, since early hours of october 7th there's a fear this would erupt into the regional war. a lot of eyes trained on hezbollah, so far hezbollah has largely held their fire outside of a couple skirmishes near the border of lebanon and israel. we are seeing the houthi rebels really pick up their attacks, we've seen the admiral, all that's happening in the red sea, but what is -- he expressed real fear that we could be approaching a tipping point, that the conflict could expand. what's your read on that? could this still devolve into something much, much wider. >> exactly right, i'll give you a tipping point, a ballistic missile strikes the u.s. navy ship in the red sea, the u.s. would be put in a position where they would have to make a strong stance and a strong decision with regard to the houthis backed by iran.

looking at what's going on with hezbollah, they routinely fire rockets but they held back in many ways creating a larger ground war, it's surprising they have done that and looking over the weekend we've seen two different strikes, air strikes, one by israel against an irgc, a general in damascus, expanding out of the war, that commander, a key link between iran that supported hezbollah, and other proxies in the region, then you have the u.s. military inside syria and iraq, conducting attacks in response to missiles and mortarseing rained down on u.s. troops. so, the war, in some ways, is already occurring in a more regional way, the question is, what's the tipping point that really escalates it to a much higher level to where maybe the iranians jump in or the u.s. must respond in such a way, or any of the other countries in the region could also tip this in a different direction, saudi arabia being one of them, for example, that was in a war with the houthis and could very easily jump back into that

fight. >> to your point, clint, militants in syria have launched several rockets against the united states and coalition forces according to two u.s. defense officials, the attacks happened yesterday at a patrol base in syria. there are no reported injuries or damage to infrastructure there, but since october 17th there have been at least 105 attacks against american forces, in syria and iraq. a drone attack at a base in iraq on christmas left three service members injured. in response, the.s. launched retaliatory strikes targeting an iran-backed terrorist group. iraq's government condemned the move calling it a, quote, clear hostile act. clint, we're talking about real american service members, men and women from the united states of america being targeted, 105 times in the last couple of months, by iran-backed groups. i'll put the question to you that i asked admiral stavrides, what is iran up to here, going after not just the ships in the

red sea, but specifically against american troops? >> willie, they definitely want to incite a larger conflict because they are focused on what they sigh as their two main adversaries at the same time, israel and the united states. just looking at a big picture iran was really becoming boxed in inside the middle east. you had normalization relations between the uae, which is an iranian opponent, and israel. that separately was turning into an israel and saudi arabia normalization of relations. they see this as an opportunity to really start to break up and fracture what was becoming an enduring alliance against iran throughout the middle east. if you just look big picture, it's really the idea of what was known as the shia crescent, we've talked about this all the way since the invasion of iraq 20 years ago, really stretching from iraq into syria, to hezbollah, in southern lebanon. that crescent, essentially, is a series of militant groups backed by iranian-terrorist

organizations, they could use that and leverage that in a have i dynamic way or iran could move outside their own country, hit u.s. targets, hit saudi arabia, for example, or the uae and create a massive conflict in the region. they may seek to do that, in part, because they want to strain relations between all of these different countries, and israel in particular. so, just a very dynamic and dangerous situation. i think looking at the u.s. navy in the red sea, u.s. troops in syria, and iraq, if we were to take casualties on a massive scale, or to have a major detonation, u.s. soldiers killed, for example, in syria, i think you'd see a tipping point in the region, which would be really dynamic, and expand the conflict in a very aggressive way. >> as i said, we had three american soldiers injured on christmas day in iraq, we're edging closer to that moment you're talking about. meanwhile, clint, let's look at ukraine, we reported on the targeting of a russian ship by ukraine's air force in crimea. video captured the explosion triggered by ukrainian pilots

who say the ship was destroyed in that attack, russia's defense ministry confirming to state media, the ship had, indeed, been hit, but did not say whether the vessel was permanently damaged. clint, what do you see in this attack? >> what's fascinating, willie, is the ukrainian military, as a whole, but through missile strikes, everything from drone submarines, and platforms out in the black sea, has really taken the fight to the russian black sea fleet and their navy. that sends a pushing force in terms of the missiles, the supplies, and in this case the claim that there were drones coming onto the battlefield. this really sets back the russian ability to continue those sorts of strikes, what's impressive is ukraine has been able to do this. not had air superiority. they may be gaining the foothold there, doing more air force operations and they also claim to have taken down five russian jets over the past weekend. that's pretty remarkable, for ukraine is able to have some of

those successes at a time where they've really had a lot of casualties on the battlefield in eastern ukraine towards the donbas, russia has used their troops in human waves, basically, over the last few months, similar to the battle of bakhmut, during the days of the push forward and take little m bits of nd, you've got ukraine having some esses, though, down in the south. so, when you're looking at what this battlefield looks like, it 'teally moved in the last year, and going into winter, everyone expects what we've seen, just in the last few weeks, which was russia with missile strikes, cyberattacks and the ukrainians having these strategic successes, but can they turn that into something bigger in the next few months? >> nbc news, and msnbc national security analyst clint watts covering a lot of ground for us this morning, clint, thanks so much as always. secretary of stantony blinken, and homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas will meet with the mexican

president andres obrador. that visit comes as the surge of thousands of migrants making their way through mexico to the u.s. border as we speak. joining us now from the southern border, nbc news correspondent morgan chesky. morgan, good morning, what's the latest there. >> reporter: the organizers of that very migrant caravan said the group has swelled rapidly with the addition of more central american families, so many of them with very young children. now, the past 24 hours here in eagle pass has been surprisingly quiet, but that could soon be changing. this morning the southern border's migrant crisis marching on, this video capturing the largest caravan in more than a year, an estimated 8,000 men, women and children in chiapas, mexico, near guatemala, all of them headed north. organizers say the group swelled by cheerily 2,000 people in a

single day, many hoping for a better life, many more, road weary, and exhausted. the caravan moving as the mexican president welcomes u.s. secretary of state antony blinken, the mexico city meeting set for later today expected to focus on the unprecedented irregular migration and border security between the neighboring countries. the visit following a recent phone call between president biden and mexico's leader. >> the two leaders agreed that additional enforcement actions are urgently needed. >> reporter: it comes as the number of migrants are reaching record levels, with new york city seeing up to 4,000 people arriving each week, local shelters and services overwhelmed and struggling to keep up. >> we have no more room in the city. >> reporter: meanwhile on the ground in eagle pass, a surprising lull in crossings tuesday, following a record breaking week, where thousands of migrants lined the banks of the rio grande, and processing took hours, if not days. outside a shelter, we met

osmani, maryanne and eddy son. where are you going now? >> oklahoma, los angeles. >> marianne is now waiting for an asylum hearing, after a five month journey here, she described similarly to so many other migrants we heard from, a dangerous, deadly trek, that in her mind is worth it. >> we heard from new york city mayor eric adams showing his frustration with the federal government and its approach, and the impact on new york city, and how they are going to house migrants and have had to house migrants for several months now. so as we approach these cold winter months in places like new york and chicago and elsewhere, how are those cities preparing? >> reporter: well, they're absolutely having to get a little creative, we know that in the case of chicago, the state is sponsoring hotel rooms for migrant families, while in new york city a tent encampment just

opened up on the outskirts, in a place that was once used as a campground. we know that in some instances here, willie, space is so tight, that migrants are now being asked to leave shelters after 30 days, and then reapply. every inch of available space for housing, in incredibly high demand now, willie. >> morgan chesky on the southern border with mexico, thanks so much. for more on this issue, staff writer at the atlantic, mark levovich, and alexi mccann. this is a central focus now of the biden administration, and frankly of the biden campaign after poll after poll says the economy is most important to us, but immigration, too, immigration is viewed as a concern. is the biden administration changing with this visit happens today included changing its focus to be more intense on the issue of immigration? >> since the early days of this

white house, aides to the president privately acknowledged the border is not a situation they had hair arms around. they knew it was a political liability and as we've seen it's only grown. in the last day or so the mayor of new york city, eric adams, once again, really criticized the biden administration for leaving this issue, the migrant to local municipalities and we have seen poll after poll suggest something needs to get done. now white house aides, we heard from the president last couple weeks that he's open to a border security deal connected to the ukraine-israel funding on the hill, those negotiations will resume next week. but mark levovich, let's talk about the politics of it, the secretary of state, and the homeland security secretary, going to mexico shows a seriousness about policy from this administration, but in terms of the politics, it's a difficult needle to thread here, because on one hand there is a sense, from independents, moderates, and just frankly the

plurality of americans, voters of color, progressives in the wake of the israel-hamas war, and it's those similar groups are saying, wait a minute, don't be too strict down there, don't do anything that might remind us of what donald trump wanted? >> the problem is, it's not just down there. in some ways immigration, to some degree, for as urgent an issue as it's been for a long time has been a remote issue to some degree. when you have someone like eric adams and local politicians it becomes a much more front burner issue, a much more local issue and that actually people just consciously become much more urgent about it. so, to that degree, it makes it even more challenging, and it also sort of adds to the larger -- around the global uncertainty that seems to be covering a lot of the uncertainty in the electorate. >> so, alexi, we heard mayor adams just yesterday, in a heated press conference, showing

his frustration saying he can't even get a meeting with the white house, can't get a meeting with the biden administration, he said that baffles him, given the seriousness of the problem that new york city faces, that chicago faces, that all these other cities face, to jonathan's point, is it your sense that the white house is taking this more seriously now, as an important issue for the country, but also as a political issue as the president seeks reelection? >> yeah, i mean, they're certainly taking it more seriously, both as a policy issue, and a political issue, i think it's important to mention that the relationship between president biden and mayor adams has been fraught for a while. and i'm pretty sure that biden and his folks like kicked adams off of his campaign reelection team that others have been on because they cannot get to a point to agree or disagree how to handle the situation. i think that's kind of one of the biggest problems for biden and democrats politically here, though, is that they simply don't have a good answer on

immigration, whether that's what they're doing now, what they should have done better in the past, what they can do with republicans to make this work moving forward, i mean, they don't even have a good enough answer to keep democrats like mayor adams quiet, let alone any number of republicans running for office, presidents all the way down the ticket, who, of course, as we all know have a playbook written for how to attack democrats on the issue of immigration. and that's something that president biden has yet to figure out. >> and these major american cities just struggling with the influx, just the numbers of migrants coming in to the city, new york city alone in the last year and a half, about 161,000 new migrants, which, of course, somebody has to pay for, and that's why you hear the frustration from mayor adams. coming up on "morning joe" from the crowded presidential primary field to the impact of donald trump's mounting legal troubles, we're looking ahead to the many political challenges for the republican party in the new year. "morning joe" is coming right back on a wednesday morning.

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presidents should bring out the best in all of us. that's nikki haley, she's a leader who builds people up. a live die or free republican, who understands fiscal liberty, and individual liberty. she's a new generation of conservative leadership who can help lead behind the chaos and the drama. we have an amazing opportunity. let's win with nikki haley because we've got a country to save. new hampshire's republican governor chris sununu following up his endorsement of nikki haley inis appearance with a new tv ad. haley has gained some momentum in new hampshire polling after receiving this endorsement earlier this month. the crowded republican primary field is one of a number of political challenges for the party in 2024, catching the men

well ahead of most of them, donald trump, is the problem for the rest of the field. nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake has a look ahead. >> reporter: the strength of donald trump's hold on the republican party is one of the first questions 2024 may answer. the gop presidential field, which peaked with more than a dozen active candidates in 2023, ends the year with just five credible campaigns remaining, and polling shows the republican race remains donald trump's to lose. >> so we're leading with 51%, while ron desanctimonious is at less than 19, haley is at 60. what happened to the haley surge? >> reporter: the early state's gauntlet of iowa, new hampshire, nevada and south carolina likely to win other fields still further before what could be a decisive super tuesday on march 5th. trump's biggest roadblock on the path to the convention and nomination in july may not be another candidate at all, but his legal challenges, including 91 criminal charges, spread

across four cases, and a civil fraud trial set to conclude in january, which is already bogged him down in new york. he's denied all charges. >> i can see right now in iowa, and new hampshire, south carolina, i should be sitting in a courthouse. >> reporter: january could prove a pivotal month on capitol hill, too, with the first of two government funding deadlines, which could lead to a partial shutdown, even as negotiators resume work on a stalled bill to send aid to israel, and ukraine, and overhaul immigration policy. >> negotiations will continue in earnest until we get there. >> reporter: all while house republicans impeachment inquiry aims to pick up steam. >> we expect to depose the president's son, and then we will be more than happy to have a public hearing with him. >> reporter: the house will face those challenges with the majority somehow even slimmer than the one they began with in 2023, when they struggled for days to elect kevin mccarthy as speaker in an historic 15 ballots. >> he won't have the votes.

>> reporter: with mccarthy who made history a second time who was ousted by eight rogue republicans in october, retiring from congress in december. >> i would do it all again. >> reporter: and new york's george santos who practically rewrote the definition of congressional scandal. >> if i leave, they win. >> reporter: expelled in disgrace, and facing federal prosecution. and while new house speaker mike johnson continues to learn on the job, top senate republican mitch mcconnell will likely remain the subject of speculation over how long he'll hold onto his leadership post after a march concussion contributed to two frightening freezes for the 81-year-old. >> i'm sorry, you all, we're going to need a minute. >> reporter: whoever's in charge, the party's key issues seem set, addressing border security and the economy uniting them. >> we need to prove in 2024 that we have a policy and the will and the ability to make those differences. >> reporter: and finding consensus on abortion, and, yes, trump, among the issues that divide the party's old guard

from the new. >> the focus has to be just completely right now on making sure we don't return donald trump to the white house. >> what do we learn about republicans? 2024? >> we're going to win, it's going to be tumultuous, there's disagreements in every household in america. >> garrett haake, nbc news, washington. mark leibovich, everyone tunes out for the holidays, spending time with family and friends and we wake up, sitting here today, iowa is 2 1/2 weeks away, eight days later you get new hampshire, a lot likely decided by then. so, is it just wish casting by republicans who don't want to see donald trump back, and frankly some independents and detect who are hoping he might go away, to think that nikki haley's ticking up in the polls, in new hampshire, that maybe ron desantis has one last thing in him there in iowa, could possibly catch donald trump and flip this election direction, no one really believes it's going to go? >> yeah, i mean, i think it's part lay wish casting but aalso

think that nikki haley has a legitimate shot to differentiate herself from ron desantis and maybe get a clean shot at donald trump. and can consolidate some of the support, there's a lot fewer canada cats now. that's how the math works in her favor. the question i have, and i think a lot of people have about nikki haley, is, how hard is she going to run against donald trump? i mean, what's striking to me is other than chris christie, i mean, no one has really made the case, other than the very passive, well chaos finds him case, which is what haley has been saying. you know, desantis has been similarly kind of placid about this. i think there is a lot to work with, 91 counts to work with, the kind of stuff he puts on truth seoul on christmas day to work with. any number of candidates you don't have to stretch very far to make a really pointed case about whether this guy is

someone republicans want leading their party going forward in 2024. so, i mean, i think that's kind of the question we're going to sort of learn in the next few weeks, one, to what degree nikki haley or someone, you know, maybe desantis, but probably haley, gets a clean shot at trump and two, how hard they're going the run against him. >> in the last couple of days, haley gave interviews in which she did not go hard after trump, and in fact, there's been speculation trump might be eyeing her to be his vice presidential pick, but that got pushback from the maga base, including donald trump jr. i want to talk about someone that mark just mentioned who might actually have a key as to whether we have a competitive primary or not. it's chris christie. if he were to drop out in new hampshire, polls suggest nikki haley and trump would be really close, perhaps even a dead heat. you assume christie voters aren't going to back trump. what's the latest you're hearing there from christie camp that where trump's got a big lead in iowa, haley might do okay there,

no one really thinks she can win but new hampshire is where she can put a scare in, but it might require christie to drop tout to do so. what are you hearing? >> that's exactly right. part of nikki haley's problem is convincing those maga voters who really like trump, but might possibly consider an alternative, that she is a maga-type alternative that they would look to. i mean, it's been difficult, as mark was mentioning, for any candidate to go for trump, because they need the maga voters in order to win, and especially in a primary. we saw chris christie come to haley's defense at the last debate. i'm not sure that haley really needed that from him, and i think that her people would argue that she doesn't need chris christie to do anything for her to win, but the numbers don't lie, as you just pointed out, jonathan. and his folks, the christie supporters that he's garnered so far are the likeliest who would go to haley, unlike anyone else, and so, while he's not going to be in the race much longer, i don't think that he's going to

drop out just to help nikki haley. >> mark, one of the rationales we've heard from republican opponents sometimes explicitly, but often in the subtext of their campaigns, that they want to hang around long enough to see what happens with those 91 felony charges, those four cases against donald trump, but, if one of the cases, the federal case, the soonest one starts in march and goes on for who knows how long, and francly that date could be delayed, too, isn't it well too late by then to find out what his legal troubles are, or maybe, i don't know, chris christie has suggested, what if he hung around until the convention, and sees what happens, things get turned upside down and maybe things change or to use the word again, is that also just wish casting and donald trump is going to roll to this nomination? >> yeah, you can sort of end a lot of questions, is this also just wish casting in this day and age. it does mimic many layers of deja vu here, which is people, republicans, you know, waiting for someone else, or something else, to magically solve the

donald trump problem, i mean, in 2016 you had a lot of candidates hanging around, thinking, oh, donald trump is going to implode somehow, this isn't going to be -- you know, he's not going to be here in a few month and so forth, and then a few years later it's like, okay, he's going to lose in 2020, or the insurrection, i mean, something is going to end it and yet here we are again and again and again. we're almost seven, eight years into this game, and look, i mean, at some point, you know, you do need to take him on, and no republican ultimately has found a winning formula, and -- but i'm pretty sure the winning formula is not the passive one because there's a time-tested, you know, record of this not working, over a number of cycles now. >> well, after all the talk in less than three weeks we'll hear from the voters on these questions in iowa. staff writer at the atlantic, mark leibovim, and alexi, thanks so much. as the war against hamas continue in gaza, how

palestinians in the west bank are facing threats from israeli settlers. that's straight ahead on "morning joe"." ." ."

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wireless that works for you. it's not just possible, it's happening. as israel continues its fight against hamas in gaza, a few miles away in the west bank, palestinians are facing threats from israeli settlers who seek to push them out. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel reports from the west bank. >> reporter: the tiny palestinian village in the west bank, where shepherds still tend their flocks in scenes unchanged for centuries. sammy, whose family has lived here for generations, told me since hamas's october 7th massacre, jewish settlers have become far more aggressive in their long campaign to drive palestinians from this land. >> the idea is just to make your life so hard you'll leave. >> makes life unlivable,

unsustainable, unsafe, just at some points you will go all the way from here -- >> reporter: sammy says the attackers come from a jewish settlement built on occupied palestinian land. the settlement is illegal under international and israeli law. >> now they have more and more authority, and more and more protection, to do what they want. >> reporter: that includes, he says, shooting at palestinians. >> so if you were shot right now, it would be no consequence. >> no consequences. >> no one would ask? >> reporter: it didn't take long before we were noticed. >> there's a jeep coming toward us now. >> reporter: he was dressed like an israeli soldier, but no name tag or rank. >> you want us to leave? >> yes. >> okay. >> what's the problem? >> stop the camera. get into the car, now. >> okay. >> get into the car now. get into the car now. get into the car now. >> he leaves his id to go.

>> get into the car now. >> what do you think is going to happen now? >> i didn't know, anything can happen. now we will see. >> reporter: we left without further incident. sammy shared with us other videos appearing to show settlers attacking his neighbors. the israeli government responded in a statement saying in part it has zero tolerance for citizens taking the law into their own hands, and that most of the so-called settlers are law-abiding citizens. >> the vast majority of violence that's committed bisset lers goes absolutely undocumented, unaccounted for. >> reporter: eliana boswell is a jewish american activist documenting violence against palestinians in the west bank. >> reporter: does the israeli government support this movement? >> absolutely. i think it's essential to understand the settler movement and the israeli government are deeply enmeshed and intertwined. >> reporter: the settlers are

not hiding their goal of full jewish control of the gaza strip and believe october 7th was a turning point. daniella weiss is a leader of the settler movement. >> we are not going to leave sofrpty, national independence, to arabs in the jewish land. i make it as clear as possible. enough is enough. no patience, no, no forgiveness, no consideration, out. >> reporter: deliberately expelling an entire people from their homeland? >> yes. >> reporter: it's a war crime. >> because they deliberately killed my friends. they massacred my friends, and this is the way i react. i am full with pain for my people, so i do not have room for other people. >> reporter: richard engel, nbc news, in the west bank. >> richard engel reporting on a really important part of this whole story, richard, thank you. still ahead, former president trump looking to upend

the world's economy should he be elected to a second term. we'll dig into new reporting from the "new york times" on that. plus, mika takes a look at the year's key issues, and milestones for women. we'll be right back on a wednesday morning. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

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as we count down to the last few days of 2023 #, we wanted to take a look at the women who broke barriers, stood up to injustice, and trail blazed a path for others. despite immense challenges women at home and abroad have fought to save democracy and their own fundamental freedoms. from the battle over reproductive rights to gender violence abroad, to the latest election here in the u.s., make no mistake, women were at the

forefront of it all. joining us now for our year in review is editor of forbes women, maggie mcgrath, and hue ma abadeen the vice chair of know your value and forbes 3050 summit. maggie, let's start with reproductive rights. earlier this year we marked t one-year anniversary of roe versus wade being overturned and yet abortion accesas critical issue in the november elections, how will historians look back on 2023 when it comes to reproductive rights, and women trying to gain steam and organize and fight for them? >> well, it will be interesting, mika, because 2023 will ultimately be sandwiched in between two years with landmark supreme court rulings on reproductive access. of course, we had the dobbs decision in 2022 which repealed roe, but next year it's set to hear a case on the accessibility

of mifepristone, the very commonly used abortion pill. so within this sandwich middle 2023 will stand out as a year of consequences, severe consequences for women's health, we have seen cases, especially in texas with the most abortion restrictions in the country, with women like kate cox, the mother who had to travel out of state to get the necessary health care she needed in order to protect her life, and her future fertility. we have seen this year, studies and surveys of america's to tra to get the necessary care needed to protect her life and future fertility. there was a study in the american journal of preventative medicine in october that showed states with abortion restrictions had a 16% increase in infant more till tea rates.

we also have an environment of action, and we saw voters in ohio to protect reproductive freedom, and i think the results in the november 2023 and 2022 elections prove that abortion is a winning issue. >> i think this is a year people are realizing what a health care issue this is, it's not about the action of an abortion, it's the health care need and procedures like it. huma, let's turn to the reports of violence and sexual violence against him, particularly in the israel-hamas war, and seems to me this will be an issue going into next year. >> sexual violence has been an

issue in war, and there are women calling out what is going on in the war, and haiti and ethiopia and sudan, and there was a global 16 days of activism to end gender based activism around the world, and president biden is calling out sanctions against political leaders as it happened in real time, and people don't necessarily feel shamed but when there are consequences from the state department and the department of treasury about what is happening in real time, those are consequences people will listen to. and you have people documenting what is happening in real time, and there's a war crimes investigator in ukraine right now that is documenting what happened to this war with

russia, and is happening in israel right now. >> it's very hard to talk about. let's talk about what happened at the ballot box. women saw big wins in u.s. mayoral races, but the heads of state dwindled. how optimistic are you moving forward? >> to be optimistic, we have to look and see, all young women who have essentially said that it's been challenging politically, and challenging on their personal lives, and they want to find more of a work life balance, and i think we have to keep encouraging women to run, and not just run but to stay in office. you know, the average number of

years a woman is in leadership around the world, when she's head of state, is 2 1/2 years, mika. in politics that's not a long time to get things done. we have seen examples of angela merkel, but she's the outlier, and to have more role models, and recruitment, we have our work cut out for us. >> and then i want to talk about taylor swift, taylor and barbie. taylor, she's everywhere. >> their impact was profound, mika. i think in part because of what huma was just saying, and you have the power of these figures. taylor swift is number five on

the list of most powerful women, and beyonce, and barbie was on the list. these three figures commanded bimens of dollars in collective consumer spending, so much so that fed chair jerome powell was asked about it in a july press conference when he was talking about the overall and health of the consumer, and it's not just what people spent on the concerts or movie, but the u.s. travel association shows how much she added to the travel industry. the power of these individual figures is also showcasing the power of women selectively, which makes it such an important story for 2023. >> maggie and huma, thank you both so much. before we wrap up, a look ahead

to big news in 2024, know your value, and forbes hosting the summit in aub abu dhabi. we already have a great lineup, including actress meg ryan, and suze orman, and sheila johnson and many more. for more details about the summit, head over to forbes.com or knowyourvalue.com.

♪ ♪ good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, december 27th. i am willie geist.

joe and mika have the morning off. and now officials are warning the war could take more months, and antony blinken and mayorkas is set to meet with the mexican president as central migrants make their way to the southern border. donald trump continues to claim he should be immune from any prosecution surrounding his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. we will have the latest there. bus drivers across the country increasingly under attack on the job. we will dig into an alarming trend and what officials are doing about it. with the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, and susan paige and retired four-star navy admiral, good

morning to you all. let's begin with israel expanding its ground invasion in gaza, as the u.s. is urging a lower intensity. >> reporter: israel is warning the war with hamas will continue many months despite the pressure to end the war quickly, and israel is intensifying the attacks not only in southern gaza, but in refugee camps in central gaza where on christmas eve we saw some 70 or more palestinians killed. today in southern gaza, some 80 palestinians were buried in a mass grave after they were returned by israel authorities,

and there was a tractor that had to carve a path and hole to bury the bodies, as mourners showed up to identify the bodies of their loved ones, and if and when this war actually ends the video shows a wasteland. and netanyahu adviser has been meeting with the u.s. about what should happen after the war. the u.s. saying israel should not occupy the gaza strip. >> josh letterman reporting for

us from tel aviv. thank you. mr. ron demrer talking with secretary antony blinken and jake sul vin who implored him to enter a new phase of the war, which has targeted going after hamas leadership. interesting by contrast to hear netanyahu saying explicitly, there's no slowing of the war, we're going after hamas. >> i don't think there is going to be a lot of reconciliation at least in terms of the war, and what you will see is a continued and relentless attack going after three things, which one is the hamas leadership, and number two are the tunnels underneath

this gaza strip, and thirdly on the better side of the coin, searching for the hostages. those are the three military objectives at this point. i think you are going to continue to see a very high-level campaign. having said all of that, i will tell you where the conversation is going in washington right now. gaza is its own little corner of hell, and what everybody is increasing concerned about is the widening of the conflict. we saw strikes in damascus yesterday by israel against an iranian revolutionary guard general. very significant. you are seeing more activity from hezbollah to the north of israel and out at sea, you know the admiral will bring it up -- and out at sea we are seeing attacks on shipping by another

iranian proxy group, and i will conclude with this, and by the way, all of this as we head into a u.s. election year. >> we are going to dig deeper into the houthi attacks, several by the united states navy. jonathan lemire, this is a thorny situation to begin with, and we are coming to an election year here turning the corner, and there are democrats and progressives in the country, and we are seeing polling in young voters that say we don't like the way he's handling the war between israel and gaza, the continued support for israel. take us inside the meeting, if you could, between the adviser to prime minister benjamin netanyahu and alejandro mayorkas

and antony blinken. >> we have seen the conduct with israel, israel ramping up the attacks, and this could be many more months while we heard that jake sullivan was in israel that israel is definitely shifting their timeline. there's a difference of opinion what happens after the war, whenever that may be, as you noted netanyahu making it clear that israel needs to play a role in the postwar gaza, and the requests to limit the civilian

deaths is fallen on deaf ears, and last night's meetings did wrap up late and we will learn more as the day goes on today. susan paige, willie is right, the president's polls have fallen, among young and liberals and voters of color, it's really slipped. for a campaign that privately acknowledges it has issues with its base, that the democratic base does not seem excited to vote for president biden again, that's a real problem. >> of course, young people have been a big part much president biden's coalition and a important faction of support for him in the last campaign, and at the moment polls show donald trump doing well among young voters, voters under 35.

that's a great political disparity, and there's a more divided young public, and not just as we see the deaths among the women, children, aid workers and so the latest statements by the military chief in israel and by ron dermer are alarming, and it shows israel publicly determined to increase and continue the war and not to figure out ways to roll back the combat and to be more targeted on it and to do more to allow aid to go to the civilians in gaza. this is a big international and domestic issue for the biden administration to have to deal with. >> again, prime minister netanyahu on the front lines two

days ago saying this war will end when we say it ends and will not listen to outside pressure, and there are fears of a widening war and militants in syria launched rockets, and the attacks happened yesterday at a patrol base in syria. there were no reported injuries or damage to infrastructure, and here's a report on that from london. >> reporter: the u.s. military attacked iran-backed militant groups in iraq after u.s. personnel was injured on tuesday morning at an air base in iraq. loyal austin said three sites used by a group that are

financed and armed by iran, and have been one of the most prominent groups involved in the attacks against americans, and it's also been incorporated into the iraqi army. but these attacks are nothing new, and the u.s. has repeatedly targeted sites in iraq and syria, and given what is going on in the region and the heightened tensions the attacks dramatically increased. since october 17th alone, there have been over 100 of these types of attacks by iranian-backed militias. as the conflict continues, there's alarming frequency of

these attacks, and whether that's the houthis disrupting shipping in the red sea or the militias targeting u.s. interests. >> and then tensions are rising in the red sea where there's a patrol guarding shipping routes, and the united states confirmed planes to shoot down missiles and drones launched by houthi rebels. this is what you were talking about a moment ago, talking about all the iranian backed groups, hamas down in gaza. this is right in your wheelhouse. let's talk about the shipping lanes in the red sea, and the united states responsibility here. they thwarted the attacks from the low-level drones. what is the united states going to do if the united states are ramped up, if it's a missile strike or something heavier

coming at them. >> the red sea is the size of the state of california, so it's enormous. you can see it. it's the blue body of water in the center of the graphic. we are trying to patrol it, if you will, with about half a dozen guided missile destroyers, and imagine trying to patrol california with six police cars. it's an enormous challenge, and that's before you get into the area south of the arabian peninsula, where you have a double area double the sized of alaska, and the united states is on patrol. good news. we created an international coalition, and this one is called prosperity guardian, operation prosperity guardian, and bringing in -- and this is a good thing so far -- about a

dozen allies that will contribute, but it's like trying to drink the ocean at this point. it's a huge area. that's the context. i think we are, unfortunately, going to see the houthis who are creatures of iran, and acting under the direction of iran, and continuing to go after shipping, and here is why you ought to care. do you remember two years ago when a ship closed the suez canal because it turned sideways in the canal, and that brought the global supply chain -- not to its knees, but there was a significant slowdown, and the suez canal is at the top of the red sea. we have to worry about this a lot. in addition to being defensive and getting more ships out to patrol and keep that flow of

global shipping open, i think we are going to have to go after the houthi camps onshore on the arabian peninsula and possibly go after iran itself. back to the political side of this, that's exactly where the administration does not want to go or expand this. on the other hand, he will get pressure from the right, from the republican party saying why aren't you doing more to respond to these attacks. it's a conundrum for the administration, and it lands even as they are trying to deal with what is happening in gaza, and ding, ding, ding, what is happening in ukraine. >> so admiral, put together what is happening in the red sea with the attacks we were just talking about, right there, 105 attacks on u.s. troops, and that's more than americans realize coming from syria and iraq. rightly these are proxy groups for iran, and what do they want?

are they trying to draw the united states into a war? >> no, i think what they are trying to do is avoid going into a big war with the united states, and that's why our responses have to be measured, but they are going to have to be increasingly forceful. what iran is trying to do here is take advantage of the situation in gaza where israel has committed a significant portion of its military power, and iran wants to take advantage of that, willie, by pushing from the north with hezbollah, by conducting more attacks in and around syria and iraq where we have thousands of troops in iraq and hundreds of troops in syria. they are not in the best defensive positions. iran is going to test that. then this shipping route approach is designed to create a lot of chaos, and elevate oil prices. that's good news for iran, of

course. lastly, iran wants to appear strong, powerful in the middle east. they are showing their capabilities to their two sponsors, china and russia. so iran will continue pushing my view until we push back harder than we have so far. that's not welcome news in the white house. coming up, two of president biden's top cabinet officials will be in talks today in mexico, and we will discuss what the white house hopes to achieve there, next on "morning joe." in the u.s. we see millions of cyber threats each year. that rate is increasing as more and more businesses move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network.

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targeting of a russian ship by ukraine's air force in crimea. video captures the explosion triggered by ukrainian pilots that say the ship was destroyed in the attack. russia's defense ministry confirmed to state media the ship had been hit but did not say whether the vessel was permanently damaged.

russia already moved its ships away from crimea due to similar attacks. and the chief of ukraine's military called for another round of troop mobilization yesterday, the first since russia's invasion nearly two years ago. last week ukraine's military proposed drafting up to half a million more troops in the fight against russia now approaching its second year. jonathan lemire, as we look at what is going on, there are moments like the destruction of the ship, the russian military ship, and there's pushback where russia makes advances as well, and stalemate may not be the right word, but frustrating to those that support ukraine and want to see progress made here, and congress left a couple weeks ago without providing that support that president biden had requested. >> yeah, congress back next week after the recess. before they left town the senate felt like they made progress on

the border security and foreign aid which would include funds to ukraine, and they didn't reach an agreement and once they do it faces an uncertain future in the house. and ukraine wants to remind russia that it can strike in russian territory or mother russia itself, and this was the latest example of that. and this is a win for the ukrainian forces, and along the front lines the fight something frozen, partly because winter weather set in, and also because neither side can make any sort of significant inroads. what is your assessment of where things stand on the front, and there's reporting that russia might be open to cease-fire talks, and that seems like a nonstarter with the ukrainians, but where do you see this going in the months ahead?

>> before we get to that i simply have to make a comment about that strike, the massive explosion you showed. ships don't blow up like that unless they are fuel of ammunition or fuel. knowing the class of ship, it's a tank carrier type of ship, and it probably was full of iranian drones, i would guess. so that's a big win for the iranians. i wouldn't understate the point you made a moment ago, that this is very significant. ukraine pushed back the entire black sea fleet despite the fact that they have no navy. they are doing it with drones and long-range missiles and intelligence, and russia has been forced to retreat. that is keeping the shipping lanes open and allowing the ukrainian economy to continue. it's an extraordinary military story and it will be recognized as a real pivot in how military force is supplied.

and let's go to the front. i think, willie, stalemate is the right word right now. i don't see any chance of a significant movement across the border. you are showing the yellow ukraine, the red russia. i don't see a significant movement, certainly through the winter. what could change in the spring is the addition of f-16 tactical fighters being supplied by the u.s. and nato allies, and that would give ukrainians a chance to create air superiority over the ground forces that might create a thrust opportunity. frankly, i think this is settling down into a frozen conflict, and that's why you are hearing putin talk about negotiation. ukraine will give it one more big push in spring 2024 if that does not crack the russian lines

or if something doesn't change in moscow, this one is headed towards negotiation. last thought, it won't happen, however, until after the u.s. election. putin absolutely will not go to a negotiating table until he sees the results of the '24 election. he will think to himself, if former president trump becomes president trump, that's a better negotiator for him. he will wait to see that card turned over. long story short, i think continued stalemate, probable negotiation towards the very end of 2024. >> admiral, this is susan, and let's look at the shorter term. the biden white house made it a big priority to try and get the aid to ukraine and it's not guaranteed it would get through congress. what are the consequences in the immediate future if that aid is not coming from the united states? >> in a word, they are dire or

key. i don't think russia, even if we cut off all funds would have the capability to simply sweep across the country and conquer kyiv over a weekend. it's not that kind of dire. it's the kind of dire that occurs when your supply to ammunition is bleeding off, and there's still, susan, two or three months of full strength ammunition in the pipeline, the u.s. and european command is in charge of that, and that will continue. i am cautiously optimistic, and i underline the word cautious, that this new package will get through in the new year, and the europeans are a big part of this and they are half of all of the aid going to ukraine while there are some cracks in the support in various countries in europe, i think the europeans will stand on this one as well.

i am hoping the center will hold. i give the ukrainians two or three months before putin could start to really mobilize and move harder across that line. i don't think it's a complete collapse in the offering here, but it's deeply worry some, again, dire. >> before we go, i want your opinion on this, antony blinken and alejandro mayorkas will travel to mexico to meet with president obrador, and they are speaking about the surge of migrants making their way to the u.s./mexico border. as we said, the visit is also key to president biden's political agenda as republicans are seeking action on border policy in return for their support on foreign military aid. everything we have been talking about this morning tied together

here. admiral, what is your view of the meeting. what possibly diplomatically could be done here in a conversation between secretary blinken and secretary mayorkas and president obrador of mexico to stem the tide of migrants at the border? >> before i was commander, i spent three years as the commander south of the united states, and i know this territory a bit. in the end-all roads to border security lead through mexico city. we tend to think to ourselves that we have got this 1,800-mile border from the pacific ocean to the caribbean along the rio grande river as though on the other side of it is a parking lot and we should figure it out on our side of the boarder, and there's no silver bullet here. if you take this migrant challenge, it's three things. it's the source where there is

extreme poverty and gangs, and the source, by the way, is not just central america, but it's a global sourcing challenge. there we need to work with our allies bit by bit trying to help make conditions better in those places. then it's the transit zone. here's where we get into mexico. mexico could help enormously, and they did and have at times kept migrants on their side of the border but allowed us to come and do processing for asylum requests before they set foot in the united states. finally, to the political season in washington, it's here at home, it's the demand signal that we send, if you will, from our labor force is that drawing these people here. we need to measure and regulate that, and, yes, we have got also

physically to control the southern border. it's a big basket of challenges, and mexico could be a big part in all three of those zones. >> admiral, such an incredible range covering the topics, and i am tempted to ask you about the nfl playoffs, too. but we will give arrest. and then donald trump's second term and revenge. we will get to that straight ahead on "morning joe."

the promise of this nation should extend to all from new york to new mexico, from alaska to alabama. but right now, people like you are losing their freedoms. some in power are suppressing voting rights. banning our kids books from libraries and attacking our right to make private health care decisions. we must act now to defend these freedoms and protect our democracy. and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union, and we're asking you to join us in protecting our democracy at the national level and in communities like yours. call or go online to myaclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for the freedoms of all americans, no matter your zip code. if you also believe in the right

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in a recent survey the daily mail asked voters to describe what they thought what donald trump or joe biden would want if voted into the white house next year, and the most popular word

was the most popular word on the graphic. for biden, the most popular word was nothing, and then for donald trump it was revenge followed by dictatorship and power, and donald trump posted that to his social media page, very proud of the outcome. instructive on both accounts, and donald trump really enjoying the fact of americans associating his return to the white house with revenge, and if you are joe biden you probably don't love seeing the word nothing, the first thing that comes to mind for voters. >> on the eve of an election year nothing is a tough word to see in the center of your word cloud, and donald trump, this is a man, susan, that flat out told his supporters, i will be your

retribution, and he will get revenge on his foes crossing all kinds of norms and democratic values to do so, and when he says something, we should believe him, and if we believe him, that's scary stuff. >> that's a lesson from 2016, right, where there was a lot of debate about taking donald trump, the candidate, literally or figuratively, and we discovered that, yes, what he says he means, that he does things that seem unlikely when he says them initially. he's making -- donald trump is making no secret about his agenda if he wins the white house again at the end of next year. we should take him seriously. as you say, there's a big warning here for the biden campaign here as well for having

failed -- if former president trump outlined revenge, and president biden needs to outline an agenda for americans to understand. >> former president trump, over the weekend the former president and his attorneys demanded a federal appeals court toss out the federal election interference case against him, and he reiterated the stance last night on a post on truth social saying i was not campaigning, the election was over, and i was doing my duty to expose and further investigate a rigged and stolen election. joining us, justice and legal affairs analyst, and he was the top spokesman at the department

of justice under attorney general, merrick garland. we have had a conversation about whether the former president should be immune, and what is your take on the former president trump's lawyers where he should have immunity. >> thank you for having me. this is an untested legal question. i tend to believe that sometimes the law and common sense are in line. i just cannot imagine that any court would give donald trump a lifetime get-out-of-jail free card for criminal acts committed while he was president. another thing, i was really struck by this word cloud that you just mentioned, and you and susan just had a great conversation about. more than anything, willie, that cloud -- that graphic that he

reposted was posted from a position of weakness, and not a position of strength. i think he knows full well that next year at this time he could -- number one, he may be lost to joe biden again decisively, or he could actually be criminally convicted by a jury of his peers in a court of law. more than anything what we see with both of these posts is a president that is afraid. >> anthony, there's the other possibility, though, that he could have won and he could be making the criminal prosecutions go away. i want to get your take on the development we had at the end of last week, which is the supreme court did not decide to immediately hear jack smith's effort to expedite the appeals process to get the january 6th federal case on the fast track.

so there will be some delays, it would appear, from the early spring start date. what is your read on if you think scotus will pick this up or not? >> i think they will eventually pick it up, and on my mother's kitchen, on the wall it's the serenity prayer. god, help me to accept the things i cannot change. there are certain thing i think we will have to leave to the courts, and i think at the end of the day, what is good and right and just, i think those types of things will always win out. we are going to let the courts do what they are going to do and at the end of the day donald trump will be held accountable for his efforts to overturn the election. it's unclear when he's going to face the accountability, but he

will face the accountability in a court of law. >> i love your indication of the serenity prayer. we could all use it these days. and then the rise in threats against law enforcement and government officials. here's what she said. >> those claims bear no resemblance to the justice department i know. the justice department i know is filled with dedicated men and women and professional staff that get up every day, pierre, they get up every day without regard to who is in the white house or who is in congress. i get something called urgent reports. these are reports that come in from the field from u.s. attorneys all across the country. on a weekly basis, sometimes

more often, i am getting reports about threats to public officials, threats to our prosecutors, threats to law enforcement agents that work in the justice department, and threats to judges. in fact, just this week, just this week, pierre, we have had cases involving threats to kill fbi agents, a supreme court justice and three presidential candidates. >> three? >> that's just this week. >> that is deputy attorney general monaco. what are you hearing from your colleagues at the department of justice about this? it's no secret why it's happening. >> i can tell you from my time at the doj i was in meetings with the attorney general and deputy attorney general when they were discussing some of these threats. you want to talk about a sober

moment. this is something they take very seriously. you know, there's also a recognition that it doesn't have to be this way. you all rightly noted that on more than one occasion time and time again donald trump is stirring the pot and is inspiring people to go out and harm or threaten to harm their fellow americans, and all because of the big lie. there are downstream affects of that. i think of ruby freeman and shea moss, the election workers in georgia. i think about the people like the secretary of state in georgia, and the governor of georgia and the lieutenant governor. willie, these are all people, republicans that supported donald trump and wanted him to win but refused to go along with donald trump's big lie, this big conspiracy. all of these people are receiving threats because of

that. you know, my heart hopes that at some point no one in colorado or any of the other states are harmed by these types of threats, but history suggests that there are going to be other downstream affects from these types of things. peoples' safety is at risk because of donald trump and his rhetoric. >> anthony, what turns this around? we have seen this long standing deterioration in support of trust in big institutions, including law enforcement and now the very real threats against officials. what can be done about it to turn it around and make it better? >> susan, it's good to see you. one of the things i was reading

in the newspapers this morning, there was an op-ed piece where there were trump supporters that still believe that -- there's people who are not blindly loyal to donald trump when presented with the facts. this particular piece focused on the jury trial as the inflexion point, but what we know to your question is that there are other inflexion points here. there's a reason in the context of campaigns why individuals spend thousands of dollars to invest in door-knocking programs because voters are receptive to hearing from their neighbors about things that they care about. so i think that all of us have a sphere of influence and circle of friends and it will be

incumbent upon all of us to educate those within our sphere of influence as to what the facts are in the election interference is, and we will not have to wait necessarily on a jury trial, but all of us should use our own circle of friends and inform those to the facts in the case. coming up, a look at the atlantic's ten best books of 2023. we will break down which titles made the cut and why, when "morning joe" comes right back. k liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ why choose between a longer life

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. municipal bus drivers are coming under attack at an alarming new rate and the federal transit administration is taking action across the country to address the dramatic spike in results. our investigative reporter reports on the california system that may be the most dangerous in the country. >> reporter: from new york to california, they are essential to the public transit system, but the nation's bus drivers can

also be sitting ducks facing a dramatic spike in violent attacks. according to the federal transit administration, in recent years, there's been a 121% increase in transit worker assaults, like this one. >> sit down. >> i am. >> reporter: in july, gunfire shattered glass around this bus driver on oakland, california's ac transit system. which, according to the fta's preliminary 2023 do it has the highest rate of assaults on transit workers in the country. something ac transit bus driver tina gonzales knows all too well. >> got hit across my face, punched about seven or eight times, blacked out, got punched. woke up from it. >> reporter: this was not the only time you've been attacked? >> i've been attacked four other times. >> i will call the cops. >> reporter: surveillance cameras show a 2017 assault on gonzales, she says the attacks now are more frequent, and more

violent. have you ever feared for your life? >> when a kid pulled a gun on me. my supervisor told me one time was, just remember, you're the only one on that bus that probably doesn't have a gun. it scares the living hell out of me. >> reporter: ac transit declined an interview but cede in an email 2023 do it is still being collected. the agency said it had a broader definition of assault from other systems but that one act of violence too many, and it's adding better protective barriers for drivers. public records requests for bus surveillance videos show what other california bay area drivers are facing. >> i've just been assaulted. >> reporter: violent attacks. pepper spray assaults. >> you better get off the bus? >> why? >> reporter: and even a kidnapping by a passenger with a machete. >> turn around, bro. >> reporter: what are real solutions you want as an operator? >> a better shield. not these fake shields that ac

transit made. something that, like, new york has, they have those boxed in. >> reporter: this is what most ac transit buses we've been seeing have right now, these partial blastic barriers, as for new york they're testing out fully enclosed come apartments, local and national transit leaders are keeping an eye out on prototypes to see what they can learn. >> my top priority is to redesign the bus. >> reporter: john costa is the president of the amalgamated transit union representing operators across the u.s. >> there's more stabbings going on. it's horrible, i mean, i have grown adults come in my office and cry. >> reporter: costa is working with the fta on new safety measures authorized under president biden's 2021 infrastructure law. but with regulations still being written he says the road to safety has been too slow for drivers like gonzales. >> i never missed a day at work.

now it's like scary to go to work. >> reporter: she now worries any day at work could be her last. >> sad state of affairs we have to build protective boxes for our bus drivers, we're so grateful for the work they do every day. nbc's candice nguyen reporting for us. and we'll discuss what the biden administration wants to hear from prime minister netanyahu next on "morning joe." ♪ today, my friend you did it, you did it, you did it... ♪ centrum silver is now clinically shown to support cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health.

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a beautiful live picture of san francisco at 5:59 in the morning, as we begin our fourth hour of "morning joe," creeping up on 6:00 on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. here in the east. i'm willie geist, joe and mika

have the morning off. a lot to cover this hour. israel ramping up its attacks across gaza, yesterday the idf announced it is expanding its ground operation in the southern and central parts of the territory. the announcement made the same day the israeli prime minister senior adviser met with u.s. officials at the white house, joining us now from tel aviv, nbc news foreign correspondent josh lederman. josh, what's the latest there? >> reporter: well, willie, a big reason that that senior netanyahu adviser ron dermer is in washington right now, is to try to discuss what comes after this war with the biden administration as the u.s. has really been pushing for israel to scale back its operations and stop these wide scale attacks that have driven up the palestinian death toll so high. but the israeli government is making it very clear that it has no plans right now to scale back.

this morning israel is grinding ahead with the war it says will last many more months. inside the gaza strip, the heavy fighting continued overnight, israel saying it hit more than 100 sites on tuesday. gaza's hamas-run health ministry saying 241 people were killed in the last 24 hours. meanwhile, in washington, top netanyahu adviser ron dermer met with secretary of state antony blinken, a national security adviser jake sullivan. on the agenda, the hostages, gaza's humanitarian situation, and what comes the day after the war. back on the ground in gaza israel's military is expanding operations in central gaza's refugee camps. in northern gaza where israel says it now has almost full control israel's military brought nbc news inside what it says is the largest hamas tunnel discovered so far, some ten feet high, and 2 1/2 miles long, the idf says, with concrete walls. >> this is the entrance to the tunnel and you can see how it goes from the surface of the earth, diagonally into the ground. you can easily see how they

could fit an entire full size vehicle down into this tunnel. >> reporter: in southern gaza volunteers carried out a grim task in the sandy earth, dug a mass grave and laid to rest 80 palestinians. this is mohammed, his mom was killed when their house was bombed, his dad is missing, at 13 the lives of his seven siblings are now in his hands. i don't know how to deal with this, he says, but i know how to make my sister's milk. i change her. she hardly drinks the milk. after 80 days of war and despite intense pressure to scale back operations, prime minister netanyahu is vowing to stay the course. his military chief of staff saying there are no shortcuts to dismantling a terrorist group, there are no magic solutions. >> reporter: and one of the things, willie, that was so alarming to the israelis about that tunnel network that i toured in the northern gaza strip this morning was how close it was to the israeli border, we were literally able to walk about ten minutes from israel

into gaza, and then see this massive sprawling tunnel network, the largest the israelis have discovered, and i asked the israeli defense forces how it is possible that they were unaware that this massive tunnel that hamas was apparently driving vehicles through was so close to their territory, the idf said, look, we knew about the entrance to the tunnel, we had no idea it went 2 1/2 miles to the gaza strip, but that those are the exact kind of questions that israel plans to ask itself, but not until after the war. willie? >> wow, fascinating look at those tunnels and just one of many that we've seen into gaza. nbc's josh lederman reporting from tel aviv, we appreciate it. let's bring in chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" peter baker, politico's jonathan lemire with us as well. let's talk about the meeting with ron dermer, the former

israeli ambassador to the united states, now a key adviser to prime minister netanyahu, meeting with secretary of state antony blinken, national security adviser jake sullivan as they push back and saying you've got to limit the civilian casualties, work the get of the hostages out, do what you have to do to get rid of hamas, benjamin netanyahu saying very plainly on the front lines there, two days ago, we're not stopping until we are victorious. now, what victorious means is sort of a vague idea at this point, but talk a little bit if you can about that pushback from the united states, and what it must have been like in those conversations yesterday. >> yeah, you can imagine that must have been a tense conversation because, in fact, the messaging out of netanyahu's government is exact opposite of what the biden administration has been talking about, the talk of months more war, intensifying, combat, that's not what the biden administration has been hoping to hear. they want to hear that they're going to -- the israelis are going to shift into a different phase of the war that's more targeted, more focused on taking

out hamas leadership and less about, you know, demolishing gaza more broadly, and those meetings were fraught from the beginning and you add onto the question, josh talked about, the day after question, what happens once this war does move to a different phase, what about about control of gaza, who's in charge there and the biden administration, the netanyahu government different ideas there, the biden administration thinks that a revitalized palestinian authority, which runs sort of the west bank, should take over basically both parts of the palestinian territory, the west bank and gaza, revitalized version of it, and then move, in effect, toward the idea of an eventual palestinian state. that's not what netanyahu is talking about, he doesn't trust the palestinian authority, the head of the palestinian authority is not denouncing the october 7th terrorist attack by hamas and you're hearing netanyahu say no way, no how, and that leaves the two sides at

loggerheads. >> obviously, john, the president has a lot of leverage here, the united states is the most important ally to israel, supporting it with arms, humanitarian support, everything else it needs, not just now, but over the years. so, what is your sense from inside the white house about how tense this relationship has become? he's obviously going to stand shoulder to shoulder with prime minister netanyahu, in the country's fight against hamas, but as these civilian casualties mount it becomes more and more difficult, not just internationally, but domestically here in the united states. >> there's no question, this is a president on the eve of an election year who is seeing, you know, his poll numbers really take a hit, due to his handling of this war. and a lot of democrats, hard core democrats whose vote he needs next november, disapprove of what's happening right now, and certainly there is growing tension between the white house and the netanyahu administration as to what happened in gaza, and it seems that, senior officials

tell me that, you know, the israel picks and chooses what pieces of american advice they want to follow, and certainly they're not listening to the u.s.'s urgings that they limit civilian casualties, and peter baker, you know, we know that senior members of the biden administration have been not just in israel, but elsewhere in the region, trying to think about what comes next in gaza, trying to broker a deal to get more of these hostages home, hostages who have now been there for coming up on three months time. what is your latest reporting as to where those talks stand? is there any hope there that any sort of cease-fire, meaningful cease-fire, that could allow some hostages to be released, is still possible? >> well, egypt has been floating the idea of a new pause in the fighting in order to effectuate the release of more hostages but it doesn't sound like israel or hamas is close to such an agreement at this point, you know, i think that's obvusly a

high priority for the biden administration, we remember there are still some americans among those hostages still being held a i think that that's, you know, the one, you know, very concrete achievement that e ben administration can point to in the last couple months when they did have a ten-day pause in the fighting to release more than 100 hostages at that point. that's definitely a top priority, but i don't hear, at the moment, anyway, a likelihood that's about to happen. you know, there's a lot of consternation in the region when the biden administration officials travel around the region, they hear a lot of, you know, pushback from arab leaders, not that they like hamas, they don't, in fact, like hamas, i think some of them are privately cheering the israelis to destroy hamas, but the scale of the civilian toll in gaza has put a lot of pressure on arab leaders at this point, really push them away from, you know, israel after years of beginning to warm up to them, and i think that's a long-term consequence we haven't fully seen play out

yet. >> in all this complicated as we've been saying all morning, by iran's other groups attacking now the united states troops in iraq, and syria, and attacking those ships in the red sea. we'll get to that in just a bit. as we mentioned, yesterday secretary of state antony blinken was meeting with netanyahu's top adviser in washington today, he'll be in mexico city, meeting with that country's president to address the crisis at the border. nbc news correspondent morgan chesky has details. >> reporter: in southern mexico, a new migrant caravan is heading north, a group of men, women and children whose organizers say is now 8,000 strong. after an estimated 2,000 more joined in a single day. the caravan last seen in the mexican state of chiapas near guatemala, the largest since last year, many of them desperate and exhausted. this father from honduras sharing his 3-year-old daughter is now too weak to walk. the u.s. border still more than

a thousand miles away. in eagle pass, texas, just days after these stunning scenes of migrant families lining the rio grande, u.s. customs and border protection, facing a quiet lull that likely won't last long. outside an eagle pass shelter we met osmani, mary ann, and eddy son. where are you going now? oklahoma, l.a., dallas. mary ann from venezuela says she's waiting until her asylum hearing, after a five-month journey here she called dangerous but worth it. mexico's president now saying he'll meet with u.s. secretary of state antony blinken in mexico city to discuss potential joint solutions. texas governor greg abbott, taking his own steps, installing more barbed wire on the border, and bussing more migrants to primarily democratic-led cities such as chicago and new york, both now buckling under rising numbers. >> governor abbott made it clear he wants to destabilize cities,

sending thousands of migrants and asylum seekers. >> nbc's morgan chesky appearing for us from the border. peter baker as we look at this problem and as mayor adams of new york city articulated again yesterday, he said this is a federal problem that's being left to the cities. we talk about new york, and chicago. but certainly we look at those scenes at the border right now, and scenes to come, it is untenable. what is the biden administration doing? what is its focus on this issue? >> it's untenable and a big crisis for this president and one that's been elusive in terms of a solution for him. the numbers, obviously, at or near record highs over the last few months and i think it's taken a toll on his political standing as well. so, you know, you're in the middle of these talks right now, between the white house and the senate republicans, and senate democrats over a possible border policy compromise that would also, of course, potentially free up the idea of more military aid to ukraine, that's something that didn't get done

before christmas, they're now think that they're getting closer to a deal that would, you know, reimpose some of the policies that biden had opposed previously, because, in fact, his approach so far hasn't worked and republicans are in demanding a tougher, you know, tougher policy at the border in terms of the asylum seekers and refugees, and their economic refugees at least and i think that we'll see if that actually produces a deal that both sides can live with. that's been one of the biggest lightning rods in washington, the last two years or three years since president biden took office and i think it's reaching an acute stage for him, not just because of that caravan, but because we're heading in, as jonathan just mentioned, into an election year where this is also something taking a toll on him. >> no question, willie, it's extraordinarily complicated issue, and a very complicated time because, as peter just said, these talks will begin in earnest again next week when congress is back, and there was some momentum in the senate that a deal could get done.

but there's some republicans in the house who see this as a winning political issue for them and they're not sure they want to hand the president a lifeline, they're not sure they want to make a deal on immigrants. they like these images of a caravan because they feel like it's damaging to this president. the senate, cooler heads there, most of them want to have some sort of deal, also because most republicans in the senate want to aid ukraine and israel, but the house is the wild card here, including this new speaker, and senior white house aides tell me, willie, they simply don't know what to make of him just yet. not quite sure what he stands for or how he intends to lead his conference, not quite sure what a deal would look like, and it will be an extraordinarily high-stakes time when congress does get back. let's remember, they're trying to negotiate this deal with only a couple weeks until government funding runs out, too. >> one thing we know the speaker is a close ally of former president trump, and loyalty to him seems to be the guiding principle. we'll see how that factors into this decision. speaking of the former president according to "the new york

times" the former president trump is looking to upend the world's economy if he's elected to a second term. the times reports trump is looking to create a more self-contained american economy by steering the country away from the global marketplace and producingor of what it needs at home. former trade negotiator and the trump administration telling the times the former president would do this by imposing a new tax on most imported goods, enacting total bans on many items imported from china, and barring americans from investing in china. so, peter baker, obviously this trump campaign isn't terribly focused on policy, it's more about retribution, it's more about the man himself. but in terms of what he might do on a policy level with trade and foreign policy, what do you make of this reporting from your paper? >> yeah, look, you know, president trump has never been a very policy oriented guy, but one of the few things it really is, i think, you know, core to

his belief system is the idea of reversing the globalization of the last few decades. he believes in a more, you know, isolated america, in effect, the idea that america should not be so entangled with the rest of the world and therefore dependent on the rest of the worldful he talked about doing a lot of this stuff during his first term, didn't get very far in some ways, did impose tariffs on china, and even some of america's friends, less systematic way and now they're talking about basically a much more, you know, fortress america in effect if you will, when it comes to trade. and that's part of his world view, you know, that america should not be so, you know, involved with the rest of the world, whether it be on trade, security, international affairs, basically, it will see if it gets anywhere. tariffs are, in fact, another word for taxes, and when you put tariffs on goods coming into this country you, in theory, are trying to protect american industry but you also may have the effect of hurting american consumers, that my colleagues at the times reference research

that was done on one of the tariffs that president trump put on, washers and dryers during his first term and ended up creating 1,800 new american jobs, the cost something like $800,000 for each one of those jobs when it came to an increased cost to consumers of washers and dryers in america. remember, tariffs are, in fact, taxes paid for by americans, consumers, or american businesses, not a very popular thing among the business community, but it is popular in some ways with a lot of trump's base, which believes that america has been too tied to china, especially, and the rest of the world. >> as you say, we've been down this road already during donald trump's first term with tariffs, expect more of the same and a potential second term. coming up next, we're going to talk more about a u.s. economy, defying predictions of a recession in 2023, poised for a strong finish to the year, will that momentum carry into 2024? we'll dig into what experts are saying about the economic outlook for the country, for you, and your family. straight ahead on "morning joe".

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some breaking news just in to us, the michigan supreme court has ruled that donald trump will remain on the republican primary ballot, obviously a significant decision here people have been waiting to see given the news last week that the colorado supreme court in a 4-3 vote, voted that he should not appear on the republican primary ballot so he will be on that michigan ballot, jonathan lemire, the supreme court upholding an appeals court decision that previously found the former president could appear on the ballot, all because of his role in attempting to overturn the 2020 presidential election. we also got these tapes just last week from the detroit news that showed donald trump on the

phone trying to influence fake electors, and everything he did to meddle in that election in michigan, but now the michigan state supreme court, again, just moments ago, ruling that he will, in fact, be on the republican primary ballot. >> and let's be clear, he did try to interfere and overturn the election results, but legal scholars have been split as to whether or not that should keep him from these ballots. we're seeing that now play out in the states, colorado, for now, has him off the ballot and now michigan says he can stay on and we know the supreme court likely will end up with that colorado case at some point down the road, but, you know, whether or not this holds, the politics of this are also very, very tricky, there are some democrats who say, look, you know, trump should be held accountable for inspiring an insurrection, that's what the amendment is about to the constitution, therefore he shouldn't be able to regain office, he shouldn't be on the ballot. but other democrats think this is simply playing into trump's hands and it seems like a legal bank shot that makes him only

politically stronger, that it fuels his arguments as nonsensical as they are that the deep state is trying to hold him down. what is have we seen since the colorado case? all of these republicans, including those who were trying to beat him in the republican primaries, rallying to his defense. so he has only grown stronger from that, there are some democrats frankly probably breathing a sigh of relief that he won't be kicked off the other state's ballot. >> peter baker, donald trump objectively meddled in the michigan election in 2020, it's all on tape. we know that to be true. but what the court has said here, this is a political issue, not one for the courts to decide, the colorado supreme court disagreed in that 4-3 vote but as jonathan said, colorado alone has given donald trump, and even some of his opponents, like chris christie, have said this just gives him fuel to say, look, they're trying to stop us by these other means because they can't stop you from voting for me. so, do you think we'll see this when it hits the supreme court, and whenever that is, and

likely, too, the colorado ruling, go all the way to the united states supreme court, how is this going to play out? >> yeah, i mean, this just emphasizes why the supreme court is likely to take it up, right, you can't have different interpretations of the federal constitution in different states without, you know, some serious credibility issues, why would the constitution mean one thing and colorado mean another thing in michigan, that's why people look to the supreme court to tell us what the constitution means here, what they're talking about of course is the 14th amendment, this is put in after the civil war, intended to mean confederates, you know, high-level confederates couldn't take office afterwards as being applied in this case because it doesn't have a specific confederate, you know, labeling, it applies in any insurrection, and people want the supreme court to say, okay, does this suit this particular case? and there are a number of questions here, it's not just the question of whether or not donald trump interfered in the election, it's whether he led an insurrection, there are some people who disagree about that,

about whether that word applies in this case, he hasn't been charged with insurrection by jack smith, he's been charged with a number of other crimes, serious crimes that could put him in prison if he's convicted but he did not use insurrection as one of those charges. a lot of people say it doesn't matter. he was impeached for insurrection, even though not convicted by the senate. the other question the supreme court has to address, is this need for congress to implement legislation to put that amendment into effect. there's some people who argue that that's, in fact, the case and that may be one way the supreme court chooses to rule on this rather than get to the question of whether or not trump committed insurrection or not. there's a lot of different legal questions involved. the political questions you and jonathan just talked about are probably just as significant, what does this tell the electorate? does this play into his hands by saying, see, you know, they don't want you the voters to have a chance to decide this election. and a lot of democrats think that donald trump is better beaten at the ballot box, than beaten through the court system because then it will remove that sort of legitimacy he's seeking

from a new vote electing him to the presidency. >> yeah, this is section 3 of the 14th amendment, which disqualifies anyone from federal office who is seen to have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the united states constitution. the colorado supreme court said he did, now michigan just moments ago, the supreme court there, saying no, that does not apply here, and he will be on the ballot in michigan. let's turn to the economy, some positive signs continuing this week with experts saying the robust holiday shopping season is non indicator the economy is in a better place than most experts had expected. overall, widespread fears of recession in 2023 did not happen. f next year, according to a recent survey by the national association for business economics, more than three quarters of economists say the chances of a recession in 2024 are 50% or less. let's bring in business and finance editor at -- liz hoffman, her new piece features predictions for 2024 from financial experts, titled more

bank failures, suburban offices and a lot less hype, also with us for this discussion is rich lesser, he's the global chair of boston consulting group, an organization that helps businesses improve their financial performance, good morning to you both, liz, i'll start with you, and some of what you heard in talking to experts there, about the economy, consumer spending was strong, around the holidays, has been consumer confidence is up, inflation ticking down, what did you hear about 2024 as you asked around? >> you're right, this has been kind of the longest predicted recession that has yet to show up and sort of increasingly looks like it won't. you know, the u.s. economy is really driven more so than many developed economies by consumer spending and it's been incredibly resilient, you know, the excess savings from the pandemic, about $2.5 trillion, and experts predicted that's got to get sent down and you'll get to the bottom of the wallet and that will be where the economy

kind of falls off a cliff and it hasn't happened. there are still some real concerns, particularly around the cost of borrowing, which, you know, we can talk about interest rates is going to remain high, for a significant period of time, most u.s. households, kind of like the government, run a deficit, and they plug that gap between spending and money coming in by borrowing and that's going to remain pretty expensive for the foreseeable future. >> so, rich, as you look at just the do it, you know, if you look at consumer spending and you look at growth, the gdp, as you look at inflation ticking down, gas prices coming down, all the things we look at as economic indicators, what's your outlook for 2024? and the experts you speak with. >> i think we -- a year ago we were more on the optimistic side, that was not the conventional wisdom that we thought there was a real chance for a soft landing, i think now that we've come a year in, i think that we remain more on the optimistic side, looking ahead, for i won't repeat all the statistics you just cited, but

they're very encouraging ones. i do think we all have to bring a lot of humility to this. the amount of uncertainty that the economy, that businesses have faced over the last four years has been enormous. i think if you're a business leader looking ahead, i would call it uncertainty tinged with optimism, whereas i think a year ago you'd have gone into the year saying it's uncertainty but with pessimism around it. that is a meaningful change, we'll have to see how it plays out, as in prior years, there were wild cards, supply chains, inflations or wars, let alone the pandemic, there's been a lot thrown at us. hopefully this year -- well, this year we know the political side will bring some uncertainty, for sure, so we'll see how that plays out. but i would lean, and i think many businesses are starting to -- the optimistic case has more likelihood to play out. >> certainly, a rozier outlook

would look good. liz, let's talk about the predictions you folks have gathered from some taub top business minds. two in particular i want to touch on, mark dickson suggested that hybrid work is here to stay, a trend that could accelerate, which would, i'll note, have real impact for urban centers, already battling commercial buildings with a lot of vacancies and the impact that has, and then secondly, this idea from sheila behr from former head of the fdic, there could be additional bank failures, a few at the beginning of 2020, and it stabilized. >> yeah, they're related to each other. there's $5.5 trillion of commercial mortgages, and half of them, affect mid-size regional banks, huge office and property lenders. two things are happening there. one is, to your point, we're in midtown manhattan today, big office towers here, on a good day, 50% full. and you haven't really seen the effect of that coming through

post 2020 because leases are long and takes companies a while to either get out of them or figure out how much space they're going to need. you are going to start seeing that and big10 nants will say i don't need this much space or i need a massive reduction in rent. the landlords will get squeezed on the revenue side and as we talked about earlier debt is getting incredibly expensive, you have a trillion, a trillion and a half dollars of real estate mortgages, commercial property loans that have to get refinanced in the next year or two. you're going to see real pain in the commercial property sector, and again, a lot of that with mid-sized banks, we have not, in my opinion, don't take my word for it. sheila bair ran the fdic for many years, we have not seen the smaller mid-sized bank to go under. we've moved from acute weekends, in the spring, silicon valley bank, first republic getting seized over a weekend, very messy.

we've moved from this acute liquidity problem at these banks where they don't have enough cash to meet their withdrawals, to this kind of slower-moving earnings problem, you have zombie banks out there now having to pay up for deposits, which they didn't have to do before, and they're having these loan problems where loans are going bad, fewer new loans being written at more profitable rates, and they're just getting massively squeezed and you're going to see some real problems there. >> two more quick ones, i'm contractually obligated to mention anthony scaramucci. i'm more centered in what sharon block, former biden administration official has to say about the rise of unions, we saw unions had a huge year in 2023, auto workers just one of them. she goes so far as to say that tesla may be unionized this time next year. >> that was the most interesting prediction to me, you sad auto workers, u.p.s.. >> hollywood. >> hollywood, obviously, and

some of that is the luck of the calendar, these things came up same year but workers are looking around saying, actually, unions are actually getting things for their members, we should think about it. and so what sharon is saying you're going to see fewer big new contracts negotiated, but actually the momentum is going to move towards organizing places that are not organized, and the obvious places to start are the non-unionized auto workers, you saw, i think, hyundai, and honda, the at&ts are quickly gave wage increases, right after the uaw got the big ones from gm, fiat and ford, and tesla is an obvious place to start. the safety record there is not particularly good. this is, you know, unique particularly among elon musk's companies, you know, not sure that people go work at tesla because they believe in elon musk in the same way they might at spacex or other places that are more ideologically driven, people on assembly lines have not gotten significant market wage increases in a while.

>> hey, rich, let me ask you about another important factor to the american economy, that is the housing market, it is just brutal out there right now and has been for over a year, looking to buy a house at rates at 8%, or sell a house at 8%, which you presumably are looking to buy one after that as well. it's just a bad time to do either. so, do you look for that to change in 2024? >> i do. partly because i think that the fed has largely succeeded on the fight against inflation, and i tend to believe over the course of this year we'll see interest rates start to fall and that will create renewed optimism in the housing market. we didn't see prices crash because we're in a housing shortage, and i think that will bring liquidity in the housing market. if you say first quarter -- i think over the course of this year i would be on the more optimistic side because i think the fed is going to realize that they don't need to hold rates as high as they're holding them

over the course of this coming year to stay in the roughly 2% range, maybe not 2.00, but in roughly 2% land, i think that they'll have some freedom to act, and i suspect by the second, third quarter this year they'll have the confidence to do that. >> we will see. let's hope so. it's tough out there. global chair of boston consulting group rich lesser and business and finance editor at semafor, liz hoffman, thanks so much both. peter baker before we let you go, let's talk about the economy. for everything else we discuss on the show, it's important in every poll the economy drives so many people's votes and how they're feeling about their personal economy at home, the biden white house would look at all this do it and the statistics we just talked about and in a vacuum, those are all good things, the economy looks strong as we heard from the experts, so many americans are saying i don't feel good where i sit in this economy. what is that dilemma for the

biden white house and for the biden campaign as it looks to get another four years there? >> it's really striking, i was thinking about this the other day, if you were jimmy carter or ronald reagan or george w. bush or barack obama, this economy would be good in your election year, unemployment is lower than it was for any of these presidents, inflation while it was high last year down to 3% now, a much more manageable place, the markets are up, growth in the last quarter, 5%. this is an economy any incumbent president for the most part would want to have going into his or her reelection year. and yet. right, and yet, and yet people don't feel it. a lot of people are still feeling quite anxious, quite uncertain, whatever gains in the economy haven't trickled down to them, they feel, and therefore it's become -- it's still a liability. actually for president biden, which is a remarkable thing if you look at it historically. with the challenge with him has been to turn perceptions, which hasn't been successful so far, he spent much of this year touting the idea of bidenomics,

telling people, look, it's better than you think it is. people don't want to be told that, still feeling quite burned by the high prices that came into effect last year, prices haven't come down even though inflation has come down and i think that's a challenge for president biden is to see if that, you know, reality eventually changes things in a political way but i think in the biden administration you hear a recognition that they're not going to necessarily win on the economy. they need to do what they can, to get credit for it, but, in fact, if they're going to win next november it's going to be because they're in a contrast with donald trump, and the biggest issue for them is making biden voters who are disenchanted right now with him, to remember that they prefer him to donald trump, that's their key, you know, challenge going into 2024. >> yeah, the numbers objectively good, a lot of of them, you can't tell people how they feel. chief white house correspondent for the "new york times," peter baker, peter, thanks so much as always, appreciate it. up next, the nine-month ultimate world cruise, did you

hear about this? it's become a social media obsession. a nine-month cruise. nbc's sam brock joins us from miami to explain what passengers were promised, and what happened shortly after departure. uh-oh. "morning joe" will be right back. new emergen-c crystals pop and fizz when you throw them back. and who doesn't love a good throwback? [sfx: video game] emergen-c crystals.

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we never miss an opportunity to get the simpsons on this show. the latest cruise from royal caribbean is og a vacation that may feel like forever.

the so-called ul world cruise set sail earlier this month for a nineon, yes, nine-month voyage. it's been a hit across social media since leaving port. joining us now live from port miami is nbc news correspondent sam brock. all right, sam, so explain for people who don't know the excitement behind this vieshl global voyage and how it's going so far. >> reporter: what's not to love here? we're talking about fantasy land for nine months of the year. and now i don't know where you stabbed on the cruising side of things. obviously, a lot of folks love to cruise. how much do you have to love to cruise to dedicate the better part of one year to doing so? i will say this, if you're able to do it in shorter sections as well they partition it four different chunks of the year as well as you can go days or weeks $between 54,000, and $117,000. this isn't a reality show. it's not below deck. it's just a whole lot of people bringing tiktok along for the

ride. the idea of a world cruise isn't a new one. but this blockbuster version from royal caribbean, involving seven continents, and more than 60 countries, and 11 world wonders, is certainly taking tiktok, if not the world, by storm. as passengers document the first two weeks of this 274-day journey in a reality tv tongue in cheek kind of way. >> hello, mtv, welcome to my crib. come on in. >> come with me. >> generated massive interest, some 100 million views on the hashtag ultimate world cruise as inquiring minds want to know, is this an aquatic soap opera or what? >> i would be shocked if someone didn't get impulsively married at some point. >> put cameras on that ship right now, bravo, where are you? i need eyes. >> reporter: i've made it my mission for the next nine months to follow every single person who is on this nine-month cruise.

>> reporter: we can introduce you to a couple of them. >> new characters unlocked. >> like mike and nancy jacobs from grand rapids, michigan, empty net teres with the time for a long adventure, and rumors about special treatment for certain passengers. >> i really feel like royal has exceeded our expectations on this cruise. >> there is no tier system. >> another duo. >> the ken knees in their 20s and proving the popularity of this ex-cushion. >> we came on board with 200 followers and we crossed 90,000 today. >> who say the experience has been smooth sailing, and priceless, even if it cost between 54,000 and $117,000 for the full nine months. >> there's absolutely no drama on board. it's funny. >> brandy lake tells us she's having the time of her life. both for the destinations, and the relationships she's developed. >> i'm really excited about antarctica. we're one group, one growing family, and, everything has been

great. >> reporter: the adventure felt from the serenade of the seas to the millions of views on social media. ♪ i want to wish you a merry christmas from the bottom of my heart ♪ >> willie, they're gone so long that it's almost going to be christmas carols again by the time this ship returns. which is going to be at port miami in september of 2024. now, the number one question that keeps coming up, what happens if you have access to food on a cruise ship for 24/7 for a month at a time? i don't have a good answer to this, just that i want nothing to do with any scale when you actually do disembark from the ship. >> yeah, probably smart. yeah, it's all smiles and christmas carols for now, sam, let's check back in, in a couple months. only two weeks into this thing, and 117 grand. >> what can possibly go wrong. >> so many questions about who has the time and the money for this. >> you and me both. >> nbc's sam brock, thanks so much, appreciate it.

coming up next, ten books from 2023 that will make you think a great list just out from the atlantic, that's next on "morning joe."

that first time you take a step back. i made that. with your very own online store. i sold that. and you can manage it all in one place. i built this. and it was easy, with a partner that puts you first. godaddy. live picture of the sun coming up over los angeles, 6:50 in the morning, 9:50 here on the east coast as we approach the end of another year, we want to spotlight the best works of literature the world gave us in 2023, the atlantic ten are the top titles that made them think this year, joining us now is the senior editor for books at the atlantic -- beckerman. before we dive into a great list, i'm curious how you all winnowed this down to just a short collection with so much

great work done this year. >> well, i think it's first important to underline our measure that we had which was books that make you think. we always felt at best it's a very subjective measure. so for us at the atlantic it was important to think of books that stopped and allowed you to put distance between yourself and aspects of reality that people sort of take for granted. so books that really made you pause, but also books that were page turners in their own kinds of way. >> so let's start with a work of fiction called burnum wood, what jumped out to you about this bo? >> i really love this book. it's by a new zealand author, this is actually -- it's a book that's -- a bit of a social novel, almost in the style of a 19th century novel but it's also a thriller. and the story is about a group of environmental activists in new zealand who are looking for

plots of land where they're illegally plants gardens, and the story gets very intense because there's a sort of a billionaire, almost like an elon musk type character, who makes them an offer to greatly expand their enterprise, and it gets them into all kinds of moral, deep moral quandaries and the book is an amazing character study about this group of activists but it's also, in many ways, about these big questions, about how you balance idealism, and pragmatism, you know, how people's selfishness and greediness gets in the way of their best intentions, really, really a wonderful book. >> sounds good. we'll put that one in the cart. let's move to non-fiction, a book called the best minds. there seems to be a level of consensus about this, it's on the "new york times" list of ten best. for people who haven't ahead it, tell us about the story behind the best minds. >> it's a book i would say is among my favorite non-fiction books in the last ten years, not

just the last year because it does something so quell, it melds memoir, there's a level of memoir here and there is a big social issue he's trying to really continue front. the memoir part of this is jonathan rosen you up with a young man named michael louder, they were best friends. part of it is a portrait of a friendship, a male friendship, which we don't get to see so much in books, actually. but it's complicated, there's competition between them. michael becomes -- is very brilliant, and jonathan rosen sort of measured himself against him. as they grow older, michael louder's brilliance continues to shine, he finishes yale in three years but he also becomes diagnosed with schizophrenia, and at some -- you know, at various points he becomes almost a model of somebody who can live with that mental illness, he ends up going to yale law

school. york times articles written about his genius, but something tragic happens, louder ends up murdering his fiance. so rosen uses this story in his complicated relationship with his friend to try to unpack sort of how we as a society deal with schizophrenia, with mental illness. there was a lot made of louder's sort of brilliance and his ability to integrate fully and a moment of deinstitutionalization of mental illness, and rosen really unpacks all of this, these sort of complicated questions how we deal. >> another book that draws inspiration from a challenging diagnosis, the country of the blind by andrew lee land who writes about what happened to himself. >> yeah, no, this is -- and, again, another book where you have sort of a memoir element to it but it very much sort of leads into an exploration of an

issue at a very deep and personal level. leland was diagnosed in his teen years with an eye condition that would mean that by the time he hit middle age it would happen slowly he would eventually go blind. he's writing this book in his 40s. he's about to enter what he calls the country of the blind. what's remarkable to me about this book, he's standing at the precipice of this experience that, you know, i think most of us would sort of think about, as being, you know, incredibly daunting, depressing to sort of enter, and an idea of sort of parts of your world being closed off, and leland instead says i'm about to enter sort of a new experience of being alive, being alive as a blind person, let me explore all the aspects of this, and there's not an ounce of sort of self-pity, or sadness here, he just really wants to understand sort of, at a logical level what this is actually

going to sort of be like to be blind. in a way it's a beautiful book because it sort of forces all of us to think about the changes that happen in our lives that we think about, this sort of -- somehow lessening our experiences, actually something that widens us out into something new. >> it's a great list. i was also happy to see hours of a shining future on my bed stand. you can learn more about the atlantic pen, books that made us think the most this year at the atlantic.com, senior editor for books, thank you so much for bringing this to us, we appreciate it. >> always happy to talk about books. >> thank you. that does it for us this morning, we will be right back here tomorrow morning. yasmin vo sufian picks up the coverage. e coverage

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but we are seeing lots of positive changes, and thanks to president biden and vice president harris families can afford medication now. the biden administration lowered the cost of prescription drugs, and passed laws to make health care more affordable. the idea that we could go back to the policies that help the rich get richer and left so many people behind... i don't want to go back. i can't go back. i'm joe biden and i approve this message.

good morning, everybody, right now on msnbc reports we've got breaking news, michigan supreme court rejects an attempt