republican party right now, that she probably was afraid to really condemn slavery because she thought it would cost her some votes in the gop primary field. >> i remember talking when she had her big moment when the confederate flag came down off the state capitol in stairk, talking with a former governor of south carolina and asking how talented is she, and this person saying, when it matters, she's not going to do the right thing. when it matters, she's always looking to see with her finger in the wind to see what the popular thing is. i was like, that person who will continue to remain nameless, was correct. >> we'll see what more comes of this. the big headline of today's show, my goodness, jen hates mayonnaise, more on that tomorrow. that does it for us this morning. yasmin vossoughian picks up the coverage now. >> good morning. today, on msnbc, breaking

overnight, colorado republicans are now asking the supreme court to overturn that state's decision that donald trump should be removed from the state primary ballot. also today, from the roads to the skies, what you need to know about what is expected to be one of the busiest travel days for the holiday season. and a nasty storm system along the east coast could make things much worse. overseas, new fears the israel/hamas war could spread throughout the region as thousands flee the assault on central and southern gaza. and as a caravan of almost 8,000 migrants makes its way towards the u.s., we'll tell you what mexico is urging the u.s. to do at the southern border. hey, everybody. good to see you this thursday morning. we begin in colorado where overnight, the state's republican party asked the supreme court to keep former president trump's name on the

2024 ballot. the appeal is after colorado's supreme court ruled that trump is ineligible to run for president in the state after violating the insurrection clause. the issue is one of several challenges to trump's eligibility to appear on state ballots, setting up this potentially landmark decision for the u.s. supreme court. want to bring in nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard and former federal prosecutor glenn kirschner as well. breaking overnight. take us through it. >> an important distinction to understand, the colorado republican party was also party to this lawsuit by the colorado voters to remove and disqualify donald trump from the ballot. they have not filed an appeal at this point. but the colorado republican part a's decision to appeal itself is notable because that forces the colorado secretary of state to put donald trump's name on the ballot indefinitely. the only way donald trump's name would be removed from the

ballot, from this point forward in the state of colorado, is if the u.s. supreme court agrees to take up the appeal and affirms colorado supreme court's decision. which of course, would have far reaching impact not just in the state of colorado but likely in all 50 states. jay suck alow, you'll recall, former attorney for president trump is the lawyer representing the colorado party. in this appeal, he writes, unless the colorado supreme court's decision is overturned, any voter will have the power to sue to disqualify any candidate. this will not only distort the 2024 presidential election but will also mire courts henceforth in political controversies over nebulous accusations of insurrection. the lawyer for the colorado republican party making the case that not only was donald trump not an officer under the section 3 of the 14th amendment, an individual that would be eligible to be disqualified

under the disqualification clause, but also makes the case as part of the appeal for the party that it is the first amendment right, the freedom of speech of a political party to choose which individuals it puts forth as primary candidates as part of the political party's primary process. yasmin. >> so glenn, there's a real what i'm hearing from vaughn, a strategy, a coordination happening likely between the former president's legal team and the colorado republican party as to why the colorado republican party appeals first before we're getting this appeal from the former president and his legal team as well. >> yeah, it may be they're trying to force a sort of procedural posture whereby unless the supreme court does something, by default almost, trump will remain on the ballot in colorado. but there are some really interesting aspects at play, and it has to do with ballot procedure and constitutional law. if we had a whole hour, we could really drill down.

but the short story here is when cases work their way through the appellate process, including up to the supreme court, the appellate courts look at factual conclusions by the trial court and legal conclusions by the trial court in two very different ways. the mantra that appellate lawyers often invoke is that factual decisions by a trial court judge after a trial has been conducted on the merits are entitled to great deference on appeal. we know judge sarah wallace conducted a trial and entered factual findings that donald trump engaged in insurrection. we know the colorado supreme court affirmed those findings on appeal. so if the supreme court is an honest broker of the law, they're sort of stuck with that factual finding. however, they can revisit the legal conclusions all day long. what we call denovo, from jump. so they could say, even though

there is this factual finding, we are going to disagree that the 14th amendment section 3 requires the president to be disqualified. this is a really interesting set of issues for appeal. >> so let me ask you this, glenn, if it makes it up to the supreme court, for instance, and whatever decision comes out of that supreme court, does that set the stage for other states as well, or are all those bound to their own state's laws as we obviously saw in michigan yesterday? >> i wish there was an easy answer to that question. because you have federalism and you have states' rights, each state is entitled to run its own elections, entitled to pass its own election laws, and entitled to promulgate its own election regulations. so there will be a friction potentially between whatever the supreme court says and whatever the state law in each of the 50 states says about the implications of a finding by a

trial court that donald trump engaged in insurrection. now, ultimately, i think the supremacy clause will rule the day. and if the supreme court says the section 3 of the 14th amendment does not apply to presidents, i think it will be very hard for any of the states to sort of move away from that and decide that issue differently than the supreme court decided it. >> kirshner law school, it's a great one, but it's tough to get into. vaughn, when are we getting this appeal from the former pridz? >> i was told it would be after christmas but before january 4th. we should expect it in a number of days. >> vaughn hillyard and glenn kirschner, professor kirshner, i should say, thank you guys. all right, today, millions across the country are going to be facing one of the busiest travel days of the year. congested highways, crowded airports likely to be further

complicated by severe weather. stephanie gosk has more on this. >> reporter: this is actually the second busiest end of the year travel period in more than two decades. and more than 90% of those travelers are on the road. this part of the country, the weather is not terrific, but the rain is going to clear out of here. so if you're piling the family in the car, know this. you will not be alone. this morning, the travel rush is on. >> i'm coming from atlanta. but i'm heading back to puerto rico. >> when you're traveling for the holidays, you sort of airport it's going to be a little hectic. >> reporter: as the holidays come to a close, millions of americans are headed back home and into a potential travel nightmare. heavy rain causes flood concerns across the northeast and visibility affecting travelers on the road. the new york city skyline blanketed in fog. today is expected to be one of the worst days to drive. traffic on the roads could be impacted by a new storm making its way up the east coast bringing heavy rain.

millions under flood alerts in pennsylvania and delaware. if you're taking to the skies, prepare for packed airports. the tsa says today will also be one of the busiest days for air travel this season. >> i found out our flight is delayed. >> reporter: southwest airlines accounted for more than 1,000600 of the more than 7,000 delays nationwide. the delays were due to air traffic control reducing the flow of traffic. the travel disruption still nowhere near last year's christmas meltdown when the airline canceled nearly 17,000 flights, leaving millions stranded. but a scary journey wednesday for one southwest flight bound for austin, making an emergency return to ft. lauderdale after a possible bird strike shortly after takeoff. some of the worst delays this week continue to be in florida, for the second day in a row, the faa slowed down traffic because of flight congestion. meantime, out west and in the great plains, many are still digging out from more than a foot of snow. in colorado, part of the busy

interstate remain closed due to the blizzard and hazardous driving conditions. >> this is the line t goes out of the airport. >> reporter: back at some of the busiest airports, travelers are now getting ready to take on the holiday crowds. >> start early. be on time. >> reporter: one important tip if you are going to get on the roads today, try to get out as soon as possible. the best travel times are before midday. back to you. >> thank you to steffor that. up next, new warnings from a top member of israel's war cabinet. how a second front could be opening in israel's war against hamas, plus a live look in moscow, idaho, where crews are demolishing the home where four university of idaho students were brutally killed last year. why some of the victims' families are outraged. we're back in 60 seconds. you're watching msnbc. ing msnbc. using our technology to power different ways of learning.

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welcome back. israeli defense forces are pushing deeper into central gaza today in what is being called a new battle zone in central gaza, emergency workers responding to a destroyed house following an air strike that killed 20 palestinians according to the hamas run ministry of health. the idf says its air force conducted a raid on what it says are terrorist targets inside lebanon. the idf releasing this footage of that attack which nbc news has not been able to verify. amid renewed concern the conflict could expand beyond the borders of israel and gaza. want to bring in jay gray to talk more about this. if you will, walk us through the latest on the ground inside gaza and also the possible expansion of this war into lebanon. >> reporter: yeah, yasmin, let's start to the north where we have seen really accelerated firefights between the two sides along the lebanon border. i spent some time there about a week or so after the ground

incursion where there was a lot of back and forth between the two sides. it lulled a bit. now over the last twost weeks it's really picked up and gotting intense with strikes from both sides daily. we're hearing from the war cabinet in israel. they're saying, look, we're not going to let this last much longer. the diplomatic way out of the situation along the border with lebanon is quickly running out, and saying, and i'm quoting here, that troops are in a heightened sense of readiness along the border. there's a lot of concern, not only within israel, but globally that that could become another front in the war. if that's the case, it could be a very violent one. hezbollah backed by iran and a proxy for iran, so the u.s. would also have some involvement theoretically if that expands in that region. it's a very big concern that a lot of people are watching very closely. on the ground in gaza, we know

there continue to be ground fighting in central gaza, just outside of gaza city as well. and we know that many of the refugee camps there, the people that are inside are being told to leave the area. we have talked about the fact that the idf now says that is a new battleground in this war. and that they intend to continue working through those refugee camps. the problem for escaping for so many that are there is that there's still a blackout on communication. the internet is down, the cell service is down. there's chaos right now and panic among a lot of people in an area that is really tight. it's a very dense urban area where this fighting is taking place, so it's a big concern. the u.n. saying that there's really no safe place to go right now in gaza, yasmin. >> jay gray for us, thank you, jay. appreciate it. want to bring in captain allison

jaslow, thanks for joining us on this. captain, i should say. thank you for joining us. i want to talk about this possible expansion that we're seeing into lebanon specifically. we had heard early on in this conflict in this war from the leader of hezbollah making a public statement that we had not heard from in a long time. who said while he supported hamas, was not interested in getting involved in an expanded conflict beyond the borders of israel and gaza. we're now seeing that happen. how worried are you about the expansion of this conflict? >> i think this is what many of us to include folks in the administration have been worried about all along. it's been clear that hezbollah, which is very well aligned with iran, has been looking for an opportunity like this to exploit, and what has happened in the middle east currently can

and could be a good opportunity for them to, you know, exert their power and influence in the region. it's something we have to closely monitor. i would also like to note something that doesn't get covered as much as it should is that ever since the attacks on october 7th, u.s. troops in syria and iraq have been attack ed dozens of times by iran backed militias. this is a very real threat. >> i want to talk about what's happening inside gaza as well. i spoke to an ambassador yesterday about the expansion of this war inside gaza and how it doesn't seem like there are many safe zones left, and jay gray just said that as well, our correspondent on the ground there. they're telling palestinians to go to a certain area, and that certain area is being bombed. we're looking at thousands upon thousands of women and children killed within this conflict. there has been now a push to move to a next phase of this war, more targeted strikes.

and pulling back from bombing gaza like they have been over the last month plus since october 7th. do targeted strikes work in taking out an organization like hamas, which is obviously the objective of the idf? >> i think it's a yes and situation. i can speak from personal experience with a very complex battlefield they're fighting on, where you have to both assert yourself and at least if you're israel, and defend your borders, defend yourself against terrorism. also work to eradicate terrorism. you're also doing it on the battlefield where it's hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys. so being able to navigate that is extraordinarily complex. it's very stressful if you're somebody on the front lines of doing that. and so i think what we need to try and do is both be targeted if we can, if we have the right intelligence, but also not be naive to the fact it is a

complex battlefield where there are terrorists exploiting the fact it is complex and there are civilians everywhere as a part of their game plan. >> so that said, we know the final objective of netanyahu is to eradicate hamas from gaza. how do you eradicate the ideology? i want to give you what ambassador regev said to me when i asked that question. >> we have to create an alternative that people can believe in a better future without hamas. but it's most important to remember if i can use an example from the second world war, yes, the nazi regime in germany was destroyed. it doesn't mean there aren't nazis. there are still nazis in germany today, but they don't control the government or the army or the police. so that's the goal. >> do you think that's feasible, what the ambassador there is pitching? as to how to eradicate the ideology of hamas, considering

the fact you have so many children now who are orphaned inside gaza, left without mothers, fathers, sisters, and brothers, with this new hate in their heart because of the loss they have experienced? >> i mean, i tend to agree with the ambassador that you're not going to completely eradicate it. it's whether they're empowered. i think we see this even with domestic terrorism here in the united states. it doesn't mean there aren't bad guys lurking out there, but do they have power and control and influence in our society? and it's about making sure that the balance is correct there. and i understand that this is probably a very traumatic moment for many people in the region. that's probably something that terrorists are also looking to exploit, but i think as long as the good guys prevail here, many of the hearts and minds can be won over in the end. >> captain, thank you so much. appreciate it. coming up next, we're going to go live to texas, what came out of critical talks between

mexico's president and top white house officials amidst record numbers of migrant crossings. plus, nikki haley taking a lot of heat this morning just as she's surging in the new hampshire polls. this one word she left out when answering a question about the cause of the civil war. you're watching msnbc. 5% apy? that's new! yup, that's how you business differently. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today.

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deal with the humanitarian crisis of migrants arriving in the united states. a large caravan heading to the u.s., and this month a record as many as 10,000 migrants were arrested daily on the border. yesterday, u.s. officials met with mexico's president and asked him to do more to limit the number of migrants arriving. the u.s. delegation was led by secretary of state tony blinken and it comes as immigration is proving to be one of the administration's biggest priorities heading into the new year. i want to bring in morgan chesky with more on this. the mexican president took to x, writing important agreements were reached for the benefit of our people and our nations. what more do we know about this meeting yesterday? >> reporter: i think it's important to point out both leaders who were the key negotiators in these ongoing discussions acknowledged it was a positive outcome. keepen mind this was behind closed doors so we're having to

piece together what was discussed and what we can anticipate in the near future. there were four key topics that went back and forth between secretary of state blinken and mexico's president starting with u.s. committing to increased repatriations amid this unprecedented migrant surge. mexico also agreed to crack down more on smugglers as they are some of the key facilitators to bring these families or single males to the u.s./mexico border. both countries continue to work on developing central america. mexico's president saying explicitly yesterday the solution long term is not going to rely on increased border barriers or more barbed wires along the rio grande but in reestablishing relationships with these countries, and mexico pushing the u.s. to do more on creating legal pathways. it's important to acknowledge that because mexico here making sure that this is seen as a team

effort and not acquiesing to all of the u.s. demands here. very much stressing that this needs to be solved by both countries going forward here. yasmin. >> it's also about what so many migrants are fleeing, what these 8,000 people that are in this caravan are actually leaving. and the violence, joblessness, that is poverty. and what they feel like is in front of them, what they can achieve here in this country. i know you spent a lot of time at the border speaking to a lot of these individuals. what were they telling you? >> reporter: yeah, all of their stories are unique, but you do see common trends time and time again. spoke to many from venezuela just the other day. she told me her five-month journey was incredibly harrowing. she feared for her life. despite that, it was still better than staying in her native country where she felt that her life was in danger on a

daily basis. she now is headed to los angeles where she will stay with a friend until her asylum case is heard in court. but regarding that migrant caravan you mentioned, it's interesting because we have seen stunning images coming in from mexico, the waythy responded near guatemala. the organizers have said their ranks to potentially 10,000, and yesterday, mexico's president went on the record to say that at last check, he believed this caravan only numbered about 1500 people. that closer to what we're hearing from federal officials who have been keeping an eye on this migrant caravan as well, and the context here, they're still 1,000 miles away from the u.s./mexico border. they average about 15 miles a day, so everyone keeping a close eye on that, but important context going forward. yasmin. >> and that really shows the amount that they're walking and

the distance they have to go, the distance they have come shows their desperation and what they're fleeing. morgan chesky, thank you. appreciate it. coming up next, everybody, what presidential candidate nikki haley just said or did not say about the cause of the civil war. that's making her go viral. plus, a live look at moscow, idaho, where crews are demolishing the home where four university of idaho students were brutally killed. why some of the victims' families are outraged. you're watching msnbc. we can . from socal to our family in texas, to back home in jalisco. seeing all the places i come from, i know. if it's a serrano, it's something to be proud of. i take it all with me and i always will. give the gift of family heritage with ancestry. (son) dad. you ok? (dad) it's our phone bill! we pay for things that we don't need! bloated bundles, the reckless spending!

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welcome back. we're less than three weeks away from the iowa caucuses. and as we prepare for the final sprint, nbc's steve kornacki is at the big board with a look at how we got here. steve. >> all right, we are approaching once every four years the big one, the presidential election year. 2024, almost upon us. let's take a look here at how politics have kind of and how the election of 204 has taken shape, and the big questions we're looking at as 2024 kicks off. first, who is going to be the republican nominee against joe biden? at the start of 2023, this seemed like a very up in the air question. you can see the trend line for the candidates. remember, at the start of '23, republicans were coming off a tough midterm. candidates had lost key races in

2022. in the start of 2023, ron desantis was running pretty close in the poll average to donald trump and look what happened. it exploded here for trump and went the other way for desantis. what happened right around here? that was around the first indictment of trump came down, from the manhattan district attorney. it almost seemed to have triggered a rally around trump effect among republicans. and that's just held all year throughout all of the legal drama and everything else that happened. here we are at the end of the year and in the average, trump open lengths ahead of ron desantis, nikki haley, and ramaswamy, and christie too for that matter. we'll see if any of those candidates have a shot to beat trump, they have to make noise, whether it's desantis in iowa, he seems to plant his flag there, haley in new hampshire. can one of them beat trump in one of these early states? of course, haley's south carolina will play a key role in the early states as well. can one of them beat trump in one of the early states and make

this a race. this is what we'll find out in the first six weeks. how about the democratic end? joe biden seems poised to be the democratic nominee. what kind of year has he had politically? he started 2023 coming off the good midterms for democrats and his approval rating, 46, 50, not that bad, but he's taken a hit this year. as we start to close out the year, our final nbc poll had him at just 40% approval, 57% disapproval. how does this compare to past presidents. here you can see, the 40% we have biden at right now. the final polls heading into the election year that nbc conducted. trump got beat in 2020. he was at 44% heading into his re-election year. bush, sr. got beat at 52%. that's the lowest, the lowest in an nbc poll for an incumbent facing a re-election year. but it is a tight race when you poll biden versus trump. at the start of the year, the

average of the polls nationally, biden had a two-point advantage. now at the end of the year, it is trump who on average has a two-point advantage. a very close race. what are the concerns of voters, the dynamics we'll be talking about? joe biden, of course, is the oldest president at this point. his fitness, his age. 3 in 4 voters in our poll say it's a major or moderate concern. big in '24 is trump's legal situation. what goes on in the courtroom for him? 62% right now say that's a major or moderate concern for them. will that number change if there's a conviction? will that number based on how the cases start to sort out? big question, we'll be following well into 2024. this is interesting too. there is clearly, what this is showing you is matching trump against just a generic democrat, trump loses sizably. matching biden against a generic republican, biden loses. it's showing you there's not a

big appetite for trump versus biden, even though it seems each party as we enter 2024 is poised to go in that direction. that leads to this final graphic, a poll from the "wall street journal" recently, they included a bunch of third party options. against biden and trump, they added up to 17%. that's a big question, is there going to be a real third party candidate to create a wild card in this. >> thank you to steve kornacki for that. want to bring in rick tyler, msnbc political analyst and republican strategist, as well as antoine c. wright, founder and ceo of blueprint strategies. there's a lot of things i want to tick through because i think steve gave us a lot to kind of chew on. but let's start with nikki haley, if we can. rick, i'm going to go to you first on this. i want to play for you the response that nikki haley gave when asked about what caused the civil war. take a listen. >> what was the cause of the united states civil war?

>> well, don't come with an easy question. i think the cause of the civil war was basically how government was going to run. the freedoms and what people could and couldn't do. what do you think the cause of the civil war was? >> in the year 2023, it's astonishing to me you answer that question without mentioning slavery. >> what do you want me to say about slavery? >> you answered my question. thank you. >> next question. >> so that moment obviously is being talked about across the country, right about now, because she did not mention slavery being a part of the cause of the civil war. and that was the question, rick tyler, i want to play for you now her clarification on a local radio show this morning to that question. and then we'll talk. >> of course, the civil war was

about slavery. we know that. that's the easy part of it. what i was saying was what does it mean to us today. what it means to us today is about freedom. that's what that was about. it was about individual freedom, economic freedom, it was about individual rights. our goal is to make sure, no, we never go back to the slavery, but what's the lesson in all of that? >> but that is not -- that is not what she was asked. she was asked about the cause of the civil war, and it seemed like it was a difficult question for her to answer, which i think it's pretty easy. rick, what do you make of it? >> that's what she said. she said it was a difficult question at the time. now she's saying it's an easy question. it was a fumble and i think the big lesson is don't say dumb things in a slow news week. there's a larger question. all one has to do is go back to abraham lincoln in the second inaugural address. he clearly states the issue was

slavery and both sides believe that the war was caused by slavery. and the whole question there was, he's quoting genesis 3:19 saying should one person be able to earn their bread off the sweat of another man's face, and which is directly related to slavery. that was the issue. saying the civil war wasn't about slavery is like ignoring the sun when talking about sunburns. it's so -- there's -- it actually had very little to do with states' rights and what the government can or cannot do. it had to do with the whole question of whether one person can own another person and to steal their labor and to use it for their benefit, and then sending off the corpsmen's sons to fight the war for benefit, which lincoln called it a peculiar and powerful interest,

but the interest of slavery, and that's what he was talking about. >> i want your reaction to this. how much do you think this is actually about the electorate that she's trying to take from the former president? and if you think it's about that, along with being the former governor of south carolina, if you think it's about that, what is that saying about where we are in this country right now? >> well, no doubt she is peddling and playing footsy to extremist or trumpism which has taken over the modern day republican party. for everyone watching at home, this is what happens when you want to white wash history, ban books, and not tell the full story of history. in fact, if you look at the 1816 document, the reason why south carolina succeeded from the union, the first line of that indicates slavery, but nikki haley is not new to this behavior, she's true to this behavior. when she was a candidate in 2010, she indicated the

confederate battle flag was not about hate, it was about heritage. nine people killed in the name of white supremacy and hate in a church in charleston, she takes a victory lap, saying she wants to take down the battle flag, when if that had not happened, that flag would have never come off the ground. i think this is more about who the modern day republican party is and the effort to embrace trumpism. >> rick, i want to pivot here if i can. i want to talk specifically about 2024. we know nikki haley is surging in new hampshire polls. wondering if she's going to be able to make it past the former president. that's going to come into question and set the stage for what we're expecting in the primary calendar. what stood out to me and hopefully you listened to steve kornacki and some of the polling is the generic faceoffs and how it seems as if the american public just does not have an appetite for a biden versus trump again in 2024. >> well, i don't think they do.

and i think that's actually true of both sides. but that is probably going to be a reality. i don't think the race is going to shape out the way that many people think. i do think that the question is, will voters trade slow growth, slow wage increases, slow lowering gas prices, in other words, everything in the economy is going in the right direction, albeit slowly. do they want to trade it in for the chaos of the trump administration where we lost 5 million jobs in the market collapse. now, i have a different idea as do many about how the economy could do so much better. but the fact is it is doing pretty well. the two hangups that biden has in this economy are food prices, which people buy all the time, gas prices, and the ability to afford a house. those are the remaining issues that people are having a tough time with. so that's something that the president is going to have to address. i don't know that trump has any

solutions to that. so we'll see how it works out. i think it's going to be a very pivotal year in terms of both who we want to be as a country and who the republican party wants to be as a party. >> i tell you, gas prices hovering around $3 a gallon, food prices still a little higher and we're looking at obviously interest rates coming down, three, maybe four times over the next year as we heard from jerome powell at the end of this year before the holiday season. antoine c. wright, thank you, rick tyler, thank you. appreciate you both. we have breaking news from the israel/hamas war about one of the hostages. joining us by phone is jay gray in jerusalem. jay, if you will, walk us through what we know. >> reporter: yeah, 21-year-old hostage held for 54 days, maya shim, released after being shot. she was part of one of the videos, the 21-year-old

attending the music festival and was shot and taken hostage. held for 54 days. she has decided to talk a little bit about what happened during her time in captivity. and we have some information on that. she said that her experience there was like the holocaust. and i'm using her words. like the holocaust. she also went on to say that the people in gaza are complicit, that everyone there is a member of hamas. or is like a member of hamas, part of the hamas family. so some very strong words from a hostage who was, again, held in captivity for 54 days. that comes at the same time we're learning more about a second hostage, a woman whose husband we talked about last weekend, an american israeli who died. he was fatally shot during the attack on october 7th and was

confirmed that he had died while still in custody, and his body is still in gaza. we're now learning his wife, judy, 70 years old, has also been confirmed as dead. she was shot as well during the massacre, and there's confirmation now that she has passed away as a result of her wounds from that attack. she was 70 years old, as i said. a mother of four, grandmother of seven. and an inlish teacher in school. again, tragic news that we have learned she has passed. >> so just want to reiterate to folks, we're getting words from a hostage that had been released that was being held in gaza about her time there along with the confirmation that a second american was killed while being held hostage in gaza. the wife to the husband that also was killed, both american. jay gray for us, thank you. up next, we'll be back with much more. you're watching msnbc. ching msn.

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welcome back. this hour, demolition has begun on the house where four university of idaho students were found stabbed to death last year. and it is happening despite the wishes of some of the victims' families who argue that demolishing the house could destroy key evidence before a trial date. why is this happening if so many people are fighting it? >> reporter: the university says this is about healing. they feel this demolition will help the community to move forward. it is also security issue, they have to have securityhe all the time because you have lookie-loos that want to stop by the house. the families are concerned because a trial date has yet to be set and they have several questions and during a last ditch effort last night to try to appeal to the university, which owns that house, and the

prosecutor's office, they listed a bunch of questions that they still have about this home. they want to know the vantage points of the surviving roommates, what could they see. they asked what windows could suspect bryan kohberger see in from the car that he was allegedly parked in outside the house. they want to know what can you hear inside the home, this is a three-story home and that could be critical for the jury. the state has said that they already have taken 3d renderings. there is not anything else they need from inside the house. they issued a statement to nbc news last night, in part saying that the current condition of the premises is so substantially different than at the time of the homicides that a jury view, which is essentially a jury field trip to see the house, likely would not be authorized. and we also heard from the university, they sent a statement to nbc news saying that they feel it is time for, you know, this process to start, the healing process. and so this is where we are

today, that demolition is expected to last two days. >> dana griffin, thank you. appreciate it. let's talk climate for a moment, if we can. so 2023 has brought wildfires, it has brought flooding, voano eruptions.es, and and this year is coming to an end as the hottest year on record. now there is a new warning that 2024 could bring a whole new record in global temperatures. new research showing temperatures are approaching a 2015 u.n. warming benchmark, faster than scientists expected. university of pennsylvania professor of earth and environmental science michael mann joins us with more on this. on his birthday, by the way, of all days. happy birthday to you. and we're thankful you're joining us and spending time with us on your special day. appreciate you, sir. are we at a point of no return? >> thanks, yasmin, good to be

with you on my birthday. no, we're not. and that's actually a point that i drive home in my recent book, our fragile moment, which is about the fragility of this moment that we find ourselves in. we do face a monumental challenge here in averting the worst impacts of climate change. but there is still time to reduce carbon emissions, to prevent what we might describe as truly catastrophic planetary scale warming, where we start to see some of the worst consequences of human caused climate change. we can still avoid crossing that danger limit of three degrees fahrenheit, if we rapidly decarbonize the infrastructure of our climate. the obstacles are not physical. they're not technological. at this point, they remain entirely political. >> how much, though, needs to be

done by the united states along with the global community as well? because this is not just a problem that we are facing here in this country, we're facing it around the world and as you say, politically, every country, every nation, has different approaches to climate change and what they're willing to commit to. for instance, if china is not committing to what the united states wants to commit to, how much does that set us back in changing course here? >> yeah, that's true. so let's look at the world's two largest polluters, carbon emitters, the united states and china. now, we have actually emitted more carbon into the atmosphere. we have burned more fossil fuels and created more carbon pollution than any other country on earth. if you look at the cumulative contributions, for more than two centuries, burning of fossil fuels that we used to grow our economy, and now countries like china argue that, hey, don't we deserve our own opportunity to

grow our economy using cheap dirty fossil fuel energy and who are we to tell them we're not if we don't take leadership ourselves? we have seen u.s. leadership is critical here, under the obama administration when we demonstrated leadership, when we passed the clean power plan, we were taking actions to reduce our carbon emissions, that brought china to the table, and there was a bilateral agreement between the u.s. and china that laid the foundation for the very successful paris summit. so that was a consequence of u.s. leadership. when we lead on this issue, others come to the table. and so that's what's so important in the year ahead and we're facing a presidential election and a 2024 general election which will decide which path we take. do we follow the path of doubling down on fossil fuels, and failing to act on the climate crisis? or do we rise to the challenge. that's what voters are going to have to ask themselves when they go to the voting booth next

year. we still can meet this moment, but it requires effort on all our part, in particular political participation, electing politicians who are willing to act before it is too late. >> michael mann, thank you for joining us, happy birthday again, sir. have a great day. >> thank you so much. there is still much more ahead, everybody, in our next hour. we're going to talk live to a spokesperson for the idf about why israel is expanding its offensive into refugee camp in central gaza and the possibility the war could spread to another front. you're watching msnbc. r could s front. you're watching msnbc.

good morning, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian. we have breaking news of another american hostage in gaza now declared dead. plus the gaza health ministry saying more than 21,000 palestinians have been killed since israel began its strikes on october 7th. we're going to t