good saturday morning. i'm michael steele, in for katie phang and jonathan capehart this morning. ballot battle. former president, donald, trump voted from the presidential --

while republicans in colorado asked the u.s. supreme court to overturn his unprecedented disqualification there. we are going to go in-depth on it all in head ahead. plus, this. >> what you want me to say about slavery? >> haley's comment. the former south carolina governor seems to forget what the civil war was really about. the big backtrack from her campaign as the race for the white house heats up. the iowa caucus in new hampshire primary just weeks away. when they go low, well, we go high. expert advice on how to navigate the land mines when talking politics with your family and your friends. good saturday morning to you all. i'm michael steele. we begin with donald trump's battle to stay on the ballot in 2024. late thursday night, secretary of state, shana bellows ruled trump was ineligible to be on the states primary ballot.

her decision joins colorado supreme court last week, which also found that the ex president was ineligible. both states say trump is in violation of section three of the 14th amendment of the constitution because of his actions on january 6th during the attack on the u.s. capitol. also, this week, at the colorado republican party asked the supreme court to overturn the states court ruling. while we wait to see if the high court will act, any upending appeals, for now trump's name will remain on both ballots until the court decides. nbc news decision 2024 campaign, emma barnett, joins us live now from kittery, maine. nima. what is next for maine in this violent battle? what's happening? >> good morning, michael. you mentioned the key part there which is section three of the 14th amendment which essentially says that anyone

who insights and insurrection cannot hold public office. that is the argument that the main secretary of state is making. she is saying that because of donald trump's actions on january 6th, he is ineligible to run for office. the ap is reporting that main secretary of state is also facing a threat of impeachment. at least one republican has vowed to pursue impeachment. she says that she has no comment on the impeachment but is duty bound to the state law. i want to show you what some of donald trump's competitors, the other 2024 republican candidates are saying on the matter. take a listen. heit opens up pandora's box. i don't think this will ultimately be legally sustained by the u.s. supreme court. >> i stand by my pledge. any state where donald trump is forcibly removed from the ballot in this way, i will also remove myself. i challenge chris christie and

nikki haley and ron desantis to do the same thing. >> this should be decided by the voters of the united states. it should not be decided by courts. >> so we also reached out to the haley team and a senior campaign official referred to her comments she made after the colorado supreme court ruling, which was basically, let the voters decide. michael? >> thank you very much, emma barnett. joining me for legal analysis is kathryn christians, former -- district attorney's office and msnbc legal analyst. catherine, i would like you to take a quick listen to maine secretary of state, shana pillows, on how she came to her decision to bar trump from the ballot. >> the weight of the evidence, all of the evidence made clear that mr. trump was aware of the tinder laid by a multi month effort to de-legitimize a

democratic election. the election of 2020. and then chose to light a match on january 6th. >> catherine, i want to get your reaction to now having two states ruling the trump is ineligible to be on the presidential ballot. >> that's why it's imperative that the united states supreme court weighs in. i think what some people have a problem with with maine is that was one person. the secretary of state was making that decision. whereas, in colorado, there was a trial and then it went to the state supreme court. it was a judicial process. however, maine allowed that one person, the secretary of state, to make the decision that she made. that is maine law. california has a different law. the secretary of state can't do that. that's why california is keeping trump's name on the ballot. so because every state has

different laws and what is -- that is why the united states supreme court is there. they will be the ultimate decider on whether or not donald trump will be on the ballot in -- throughout the country. it will be one decision that will apply to all of the states in the united states. >> kathryn. , you actually base for me the sweet spot in this whole situation with respect to the supreme court. because every state has their own way of making that decision, number, one and number two, only two states have said hey, trump can't be on the ballot. do you think the supreme court -- will this force the supreme court to engage? do you think they would step back and say, we need more states in the pool. we want to see six, seven, eight states say no, you can't be on the ballot. versus eight, nine, ten states saying yes, you can be on the ballot. >> i think they will engage because, you know, time is of the essence. march 5th is coming up in super

tuesday. november is not that far away. it's less than a year. what they can do is not touch the issue about whether or not trump did or did not incite an insurrection. they can just decide on constitutional grounds, does section three apply to the office of the presidency? if the section three mean that states can't do this? it has to be congress that decides whether or not this will be enforced. so they could decide it that way without getting anywhere near whether or not donald trump did or did not cause an insurrection. that's what the michigan supreme court -- they didn't touch the issue. they just said -- it's a political carney's to decide who gets the ballot. we won't make that decision. i don't think the supreme court will weigh in. they don't want this hovering around. we have iowa, new hampshire, it is on a roll for the primaries. they're going to make a decision. >> he referenced california a little bit earlier. you're having the opportunity

to this week sort of bar trump from the ballot. but they decided instead, okay, we will leave his name along with a list of candidates running in the states presidential primary. we also had michigan, for example, deciding to keep him on the ballot as well. as we get closer to some of the states primaries, as you referenced a moment ago, do you expect to see how the states book to use the 14th amendment question as a matter of whether or not donald trump should appear on the ballot? >> some will in others will do what most of the secretaries of states have done, and said i'm not touching this. so you know, it's california. you can't get more blue estate than california. the governor, i believe, even said it should be up to the voters. most states who have touched it have said we're not gonna get involved. but because major states have, colorado, maine, michigan, we

have to have these supreme courts weigh in and make a decision. >> can you answer a question for me? you hear this a lot from folks who say, well, you know, chris christie for example, in the clip coming, in leave it up to the voters. the court has no place here. so what is the point of the 14th amendment? what is the point of section three of the 14th amendment if it is just a matter for the voters to decide and the courts don't have any sway or role to play here? >> the courts do have a role. and the main court, quite frankly, is the supreme court. when the courts have a role, you have 50 different decisions as you can see is happening. the united states supreme court interprets the constitution and the 14th amendment, section three. they will make the interpretation. and whatever the decision is, you, know the rest of the states in the country will have

to abide by it. and hopefully it will be a thoughtful and, as best they can, non political decisions. >> thank you very much, kathryn. i appreciate your insights this morning. coming, up after the break, the crane is calling in russia's deadliest aerial assault since the war in ukraine began nearly two years ago. plus, live update from israel and overnight developments of the latest arms sales from israel after president biden bypassed congressional approval on the deal. we have a lot more to cover this morning. to keep it right here on msnbc. here on msnbc here on msnbc this isn't charmin!

no wonder i don't feel as clean. here's charmin ultra strong. ahhh! my bottom's been saved! with its diamond weave texture, charmin ultra strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort. enjoy the go with charmin. russia stepping up its war in

ukraine. friday, russian forces bombarded ukraine with rockets and drones of one of the largest area assault since the war began nearly two years ago. nearly 30 people were killed and more than 100 others injured at bombs hit schools

hospitals and homes. president biden called the attack brutal. a reminder of vladimir putin's objective to obliterate ukraine. the president also called on congress to step up and pass legislation to free up more than 61 billion dollars of security aid for kyiv. new developments overnight, president biden bypasses congress once again in an emergency arms sale to israel. as its war against hamas rages on. the sale included fuses, charges, and primers totaling hundred 47 point $5 million and equipment. the statement yesterday the state department spokesperson said, quote, given the urgency of israel's defensive needs, the secretary notified congress that he had exercised his delegated authority to determine and emergency existence and necessitating the immediate approval of the transfer. the sale comes after israel faces increasing international blowback for its military tactics. the civilian death toll that has surpassed 21,000 in gaza.

nbc news foreign correspondent josh lederman joins us now from tel aviv. josh, quick question to you, the u.n. assistant secretary general is renewing calls for an immediate cease fire between israel and hamas. saying the humanitarian crisis in gaza is, quote, deteriorating. what is the latest you're finding there on the ground in israel? >> certainly no signs that a cease-fire is imminent, michael. in fact, over the last few days the focus of israel's campaign has really been on central gaza where it says it is working to clear out hamas from some of the refugee camps as well as southern gaza in khan yunis and rafah, some of the populated areas there. today the israeli military saying once again it is creating a window today where it says the ball stopped bombing in rafah to allow civilians to exit that city. which has really been packed with hundreds of thousands of refugees who have fled from the north. and as these refugees are being

told to evacuate to different places, and then evacuate the places to which they just fled to, the areas for them to go to are becoming fewer and fewer. there is very clearly not any place that is completely off limits. israel have said that even in the areas that it has designated safe they really should be called safer. if hamas is located there, they will still undergo, what they call, surgical strikes to try to eliminate them. you mentioned that international blowback and scrutiny that in israel is facing, we have just learned that the government of south africa has filed a case with the international court of justice accusing israel of genocide against the palestinians. the south africans are asking the court to stop israel from continuing to wage this war. the israeli foreign ministry says it is baseless. they are calling this a blood libel. it comes as we are finding there have been very few signs of progress from releasing those hostages who remain in the gaza strip.

there have been negotiations involving the egyptians. hamas and saying they're really not interested in any kind of a temporary cease-fire plan like the egyptians have been proposing, in exchange for the release of more hostages. they say no more hostages will be released until there is a permanent cease-fire. that lays the groundwork that we expect secretary blinken to visit israel in the coming days. it will be his fifth visit here just since the war started, michael. >> thank you very much, josh lederman. we appreciate you. joining me now is aaron david miller. senior fellow and carnegie endowment of international peace and for the state department middle east analyst and negotiator. i guess who it is one of these tricky areas for us to really understand and put in perspective these tensions. particularly as they continue to rise along the northern border between hezbollah and israel. how concerned are we, are the israeli officials, that this infighting that this fighting will spill over even further

into israel? >> i think, thank you for having me -- [inaudible]

we think about the efforts that are underway to begin a two state solution, early to begin talks in that space? >> the chances of that, michael, are slim to none. i think that 2024 is going to be the year of gaza. it is so complicated trying to figure out how to lower the intensity of this military

conflict to something politically -- excuse me, from a humanitarian point of view. 2.3 million gazans upon whose lives have been fundamentally destroyed. i think that, should biden get a second term, that may coincide with leadership changes both in israel and, perhaps, among palestinians that would open up a different pathway for israelis and palestinians. i see absolutely no chance of any serious effort, or a little loan negotiations, being made before that time on the issue of trying to figure out how to create a palestinian state living alongside of israel in peace and security. >> thank you very much, aaron david miller. a sobering point. up next, blue state mayors are trying new legal tactics to fight back against the cruel and political transportation of

illegal migrants from red border states. i will talk to a former mayor of san antonio, julián castro, and what the biden administration can do to stop it. you are watching msnbc. tching msnbc

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immigration is heating up. on thursday, the doj threatened legal action against the state of texas over a sweeping new law that would allow state and local police to arrest migrants who enter the u.s. from mexico

without authorization. the laws texas governor direct retaliation against president biden's handling of the border crisis. the move comes shortly after antony blinken and andrea mayorkas met with mexican officials and committed to working more closely to address record numbers of migration. as a massive number of factors come closer to the southern border, the caravan is just one factor adding to the political pressure on the biden administration to take action. joining me now, julián castro former hug secretary, former mayor of san antonio, and msnbc political contributor. good to see you, my friend. what do you make of the latest news that the justice department is threatening to sue texas over the latest regulations that would empower state officials to remove people from the u.s. who, they suspect, may be illegal in the country? >> good to be with you,

michael. this comes as no surprise. look, this is the latest political stunt, this time putting into law, a show me your paper's law in texas by governor greg abbott and the texas legislature, which is, of course, republican controlled. it flies in the face of supreme court rulings. it clearly says that this is the purview, this type of enforcement, is the purview of the federal government. this, is essentially a law, not unlike sb 1070 people remember a few years ago in arizona. this empowers texas law enforcement to essentially remove migrants. this is something that, time and again, the supreme court has said, states, he did not have the authority to do this. this is the federal government's authority. here is the thing, since that ruling which i believe was in 2012 on arizona's law the supreme court has changed. this is a more conservative supreme court. we saw what happened with roe. we have seen what has happened

with affirmative action. the question is, could this be the next few to drop? >> it raises a lot of questions in that regard. when you step back and pull the lands a little bit away from the subject you say, okay, where are we? how did we get here? one of the last major models for immigration policy was by then president george w. bush and his administration. that effort got killed by conservatives in the senate. the question, when you have bipartisan support, you cannot get it done. is there any appetite today in congress for something similar to what we saw bush try to do in 2006? >> i wish i had a better answer for you. i think the answer to that right now is no. you have a republican party that has become even more hard lined, even more extremists on immigration than, i think it practically wants to run on the issue of immigration. wants to keep this issue of

border security alive as long as they can. they think it is political pay dirt. i wouldn't say that, in 2024, we are going to see any kind of grand compromise on immigration reform. perhaps there is a chance in the years to come of smaller victories, dreamers or addressing issues related to ports of entry, or visas. i do not see any kind of 2006, 2013, immigration reform coming up. >> you do have a number of democratic mayors taking action as states like texas continue to bus and fly migrants to their cities. new york, for example, mayor eric adams passed an order that requires bus companies to provide advance notice of trips or face criminal charges. is this a solution to what is, admittedly, a dysfunctional immigration system? a dysfunctiona>> i wouldn't desa

solution. what needs to happen, these communities need to get more resources to be able to manage the number of migrants in their neighborhoods. ultimately, the federal government needs more resources so people can get an answer on their asylum claims. if they don't get asylum than they can be on their way. the problem is the republicans in congress will allocate those resources. they are going to make the biden administration try to jump through hoops and remake the asylum system in the image of stephen miller and donald trump as a compromise to try to get what they want, more resources. the mayors have been pushing. i understand that as a former mayor. look, this does strain budgets. it also causes tensions in the city. chicago is a good example of that. my hope is the administration is going to be able to provide more resources. republicans are going to compromise on that.

again, i think right now republicans feel like heading into the 2024 election if they have this issue of border security and immigration where they want to. i don't think they are good faith actors here to actually make a deal in compromise. >> thank you, julián castro. good to see you, my friend. coming up, cleanup on aisle seven! presidential hopeful, nikki haley, doing damage control this morning after her civil war stumble seen around the world. saturday morning political panel joins me next on what it means for her prospects in the polls. we've got that next.

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governor, nikki haley's presidential campaign is in cleanup mode this morning. not for something she said, but for what she didn't say, during a campaign stop in new hampshire on wednesday. take a look. >> what was the cause of the united states civil war? >> don't come up with an easy question anything. i think the cause of the civil war with basically how government was gonna run. the freedoms and what people could and couldn't do. >> in the year 2023, it's astonishing to me that he would answer that question without mentioning the world slavery. >> what do you want me to say about slavery? >> i want you to answer my questions, thank you. >> this is far from a gotcha question but nikki haley failed

miserably. instead, without a shred of evidence, nikki haley says the question came from a democratic plant in the crowd and she tried to clean up on a seven during a radio interview in hampshire. take a listen to this. >> of course the civil war was about slavery, we know that. that's ty part of it. what i was saying was what did it mean to us today. what it means to us toy is about freedom, that's what that was all about. it was about individual freedom. it was about economic freedom. it was about individual rights. our goal is to make sure, no, we never go back to the state of slavery. but what is the lesson and all of that? >> today the civil war is about freedom. really? i think we know which base about she's going after their. joining me now -- msnbc political analyst and democratic pollster. also joining us is former florida congresswoman and current u.s. senate candidate,

debbie mccaskill powell. good to see both. fernand, less than three weeks before the iowa caucuses, dude. nikki haley stumbling big. on the civil war! what is your take away from that? how do you do that? >> michael, i always go a little bit against the conventional wisdom here. i do not think it was a stumble for her in the republican primary for president. i think that is exactly the type of response that she knows she needs to give. we have seen this throughout the republican ecosystem. to confront america's past on some of these uncomfortable issues, it rises a specter of what we know are racial concerns, something that republicans do not want to talk about or pretend do not exist. however, i do think it is a massive problem that, if by some miracle, she does manage to capture the republican nomination, it would be a problem for her in the general election. that is a disqualifying answer. that is a beautiful, neat, sound by. if he manages to defeat trump

in the nomination, i don't see it happening, if she does it is gonna be on screens over an over again. she's gonna have a lot into for. when it comes to damage now, in the short term, iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, i don't think that'll be its own problem for her. >> debbie, fernand raises an interesting point. the civil war question, i think in many respects, is a fair question. you are a candidate running for office. you can appreciate what may come from a different space given all that has gone on, particularly trump's right wing extremism threatening the junta democracy. should we be concerned by her response and the response of other candidates like her out there? those who cannot address this question head-on? >> absolutely, michael. good morning to you all. look, nikki haley's response is the symbol of a larger problem that has infected the entire republican party. it is one of the reasons why ron desantis targeted our curriculum here in the state of

florida, trying to cancel black history any question of race, to say that somehow slavery with a benefit for those who suffered. it is such a stain in our history. i can tell you that they are putting their extreme agenda, trying to put points or get points from their extreme base in order to win these races. like fernand says, nikki haley has absolutely no chance in the republican primary. we see trump's numbers continue to rise. we see people like rick -- who i'm running against, they say absolutely nothing. not only with the comments that nikki haley mentioned, but also one trump used hitler's rhetoric to refer to immigrants as poisoning the blood of america. that is one of the reasons why i am running, michael. i am a proud south american immigrants. i'm an ecuadorian american who served in the u.s. house of representatives. we need to be extremists like rick scott. that is why i am asking

everyone watching this morning to join me, debbie for florida .com, support me. we cannot allow extreme politicians like trump, haley, others like desantis, but also people who say nothing. spineless people who turned their backs on some of the most dangerous rhetoric. those politicians are rick sky. >> for an end, when you think about nikki haley, she is the former governor of south carolina. a state that was the first to secede from the union in 1860. nikki knows the state, she knows its history. she had a similar stance, interestingly enough, however, on the confederate flag back in 2010 when she was running for governor. take a listen. >> for those groups who come in and say they have issues with the confederate flag, i will work to talk to them about it. i will work to talk to them about the heritage and how this is not something that is racist, it is a tradition that people feel proud of. >> why would she say the

confederate flag is a tradition that we should be proud of? was she blowing some kind of dog whistle with the response of the cause of the civil war? is that something that we see has to happen in order to win voters over? to play to that base like that? >> the short answer is, of course she does! yeah! you know this better than anyone, michael. as chris christie said recently, she is right on the money. it is not gonna earn any points. you are not allowed to tell the truth. you are not allowed to talk about historical facts in the republican primary today. donald trump is the head of the personality cult. there -- uncomfortable proofs causing you political trouble. you have to create this alternate reality, alternative facts as kellyanne conway famously said, not really addressing issues on the table. if you want to talk brass tacks here, what does this mean for

nikki haley? what does that mean for ron desantis? those who are still trying, michael, to capture that nomination? they have to win five votes. it is the five votes a majority of the supreme court in the hopes that they either rule the donald trump is liable for prosecution of the crimes he committed as president or in upholding the colorado decision and throw him off the bow because he was and is an insurrectionist. they are counting on those external factors to get the candidacies a viability. given the polling lead that both of them are suffering under donald trump in iowa, new hampshire, and the republican state of south carolina, it just seems insurmountable at this point. >> insurmountable is the operative word, my friend. thank you fernand a monte and former representative, debbie mucarsel-powell. still to come, keeping politics polite. how to talk about the biggest issues of the day with friends and loved ones without setting of world war iii at the dinner table.

my next guest wrote the book on. it don't go anywhere. you're watching msnbc. watching msnbc. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today.

there is a lot of information out there. hamas is a terrorist group oppressing the palestinian people. hamas refused a continued ceasefire, a continued pause in fighting and more aid from israelis in exchange for just freeing more hostages. instead, hamas resumed attacks. not to protect the palestinian people or obtain peace, only to destroy israel. we must stand against hamas and stand with palestinians and israelis for basic human rights.

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us. officers hitting the sheryl too hard and suddenly you are arguing about what trump really meant when he said dictator for a day when the rest of us are just trying to meet our sleepy

tailpipe. how do you navigate that tricky moment without getting disowned? my next guest actually wrote the book on how best to deal with this. joining me now is the neve gibson, author of politics for people who hate politics. how to engage without losing your friends or selling your soul. denise, there is always that awkward moment during dinner, standing around the turkey, talking to grandma, how do you deal with these and counters that can take you down a rebel you may not escape from? >> thank you so much for having me on. you were saying earlier about sherrie, sometimes it doesn't even take cheri. you just have that one relative you know is gonna be there. you are just dreading it from the moment that you see their invitation. this is such an important topic even more severe on the holidays as we go to the election season. it is not going to be an easy one for anybody. especially for those of us who have really strongly held

convictions. this book that i wrote is really an amalgamation of many of the mistakes that i've made my 20 plus years of partisan politics. also trying to navigate how to love my friends that are on the other side of the aisle that i ultimately have to work with while i'm in washington. some of the things i've learned along the way or threatening things that are not surprising. they are based in psychology and some spiritual principle that i draw for my faith. what i learned is what i established at the outset of every conversation of what my motive actually is for engaging, i want to have this relationship. it is going to last beyond this election cycle. it is important to me to preserve it. i have a different way of engaging from the outset. i think that when we have those motives not only stated in our minds but maybe established at the beginning of the argument, what you think may become an argument, you are able to get some agreement as to what are our boundaries, what are the guardrails around our conversations that we can keep at least this relationship

preserved? the other thing i would say is it is really important to engage with humility. i think that is so lacking these days. especially when we are so convinced that we are right. we have these issues that we just feel like, this is god's truth. we all have a part of the truth. none of us have the whole truth. we all have a perspective of the truth based on our experiences and what we have seen in life. having that humility and software enough to say, i may not have all of the facts. and asking, being curious as to what someone else holds a different perspective, those are really important starting points for a good conversation and really having that relationship last. lastly, -- go ahead please,. >> now no, i just wanted to say real quick, how do you keep the ham from flying? when you really want to stick to your deeply held values and beliefs? how do you find that balance? >> i love that image of him flying. i have never seen it but i'm

sure it has happened. keep your fork on your own play, right? it's like keeping your eyes on your own paper. making sure that you are not responsible for what other people are going to say. we cannot control others and we shouldn't want to. but we can control ourselves. one of the rules of thumb that i have for talking, you feel that inside you, you know? you get heated. you think, i'm not sure where this conversation is going to go. i better check myself. one of the rules i have is when you have something hard to speak, and i think it is so important that we speak the truth, our truth, make sure that you do in love. my rule of thumb is the harder the truth, the greater the love. i know that that is so difficult to do. people may say, gosh, am i compromising? truthfully, if you want to win an argument. if you just want to be influential, you can really argue until you're blue in the face a not gonna change peoples minds on deeply held convictions. if you want to have a chance of engaging in a manner that not only serves the relationship in

the long term but also gives you the ability to continue to have influence in someone 54 and a conversation, people are much more willing to receive things that they disagree with if it is spoken in love, right. ? that is just a natural human response. keeping that in the forefront, not only in the holiday season when there is ham to be thrown, but also in the new year as we have and increasingly acrimonious political environment. this is so important for us. i believe that our greatest threat is not anything external. i really believe that our greatest threat in america as the way we treat each other in the division that because every single day when we choose to engage otherwise. >> it may not just be grandma, it may be me, as well. got it. understood. >> definitely me, i will be the first to claim that. >> thank you so much, denise. we really appreciate. it coming up in our next hour, the political and legal fallout after being --

colorado removed trump from the 2024 primary ballot. the mounting pressure on the supreme court to weigh in before decision 2024 november. keep it right here, you are watching msnbc news reports.

>> welcome back. i'm michael steele, jonathan capehart is off this morning. coming up this hour, the main event.

the es